Teenager reportedly finds solution to 350 year old math and physics problem

May 29, 2012 by Bob Yirka weblog
Image: Welt.de

(Phys.org) -- In Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica published in 1687, the man many consider the most brilliant mathematician of all time used a mathematical formula to describe the path taken by an object when it is thrown through the air from one point to the next, i.e. an arc based on several factors such as the angle it is thrown at, velocity, etc. At the time, Newton explained that to get it completely right though, air resistance would need to be taken into account, though he could not figure out himself how to factor that in. Now, it appears a 16 year old immigrant to Germany has done just that, and to top off his work, he’s also apparently come up with an equation that describes the motion of an object when it strikes an immobile surface such as a wall, and bounces back.

Shouryya Ray, a modest student who just four years ago was living in Calcuta, has been on an accelerated learning course and is taking his Abitur exams two years early. His math equations won him first place in a state science competition and second place in the national Math and IT section at finals. He’s told the press that figuring out how to come up with his formulas was more due to school-boy naivety than genius, which the German press has been suggesting.

Ray moved with his family to Germany when his father landed a job as a research assistant at the Technical University of Freiburg. He has apparently shown great aptitude for math from an early age, learning calculus from his dad when he was still just six years old. He’s told the press that he got the idea of trying to develop the two formulas after visiting Dresden University on a field trip where he was told that no one had been able to come up with equations to describe the two dynamics theories.

Ray’s story has generated a lot of press around the world, highlighting the young lad’s ability to come up with a math formula that not even the great could find, despite the fact that no one other than a few local people have seen the formulas he’s created; thus, in the math and physics world there remains a great deal of skepticism regarding what he’s actually accomplished and most are holding off judgment until the formulas are published and reviewed.

Explore further: Professor quantifies how 'one thing leads to another'

More information: via Welt, IBTimes, Discovery

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User comments : 72

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ShotmanMaslo
4.7 / 5 (12) May 29, 2012
Why are the formulas not published?
thewonderingrabbit
5 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
Why are the formulas not published?

I'm assuming due to keeping it classified until a proper publication is made.
Origin
2.3 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
I'm not very sure with this explanation..
Boutnerd
5 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
Hmm. I'm not convinced.
Origin
1 / 5 (27) May 29, 2012
The trajectory of ball bouncing from wall is indeed computed routinely with various numerical methods and nothing very strange is about it. For example, this is how you can simulate this situation in free TrueSpace modelling SW.

This example just points to the uselessness of these formal derivations: the particle simulation can handle much more complex situation effortlessly, whereas the analytical solution is useless in most of practical applications. Now the question arises, why we should pay such intellectual exercises from our taxes? We should adopt similar model here, like for financing of art or various sport or personal records collected in Guinness book. Whereas the really useful findings, like the cold fusion or antigravity drives are ignored for years. The mainstream physics proved its separation from reality again.
kaasinees
3.1 / 5 (14) May 29, 2012
Teenager? he looks 30.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (39) May 29, 2012
The trajectory of ball bouncing from wall is indeed computed routinely with various numerical methods and nothing very strange is about it

Did you read the article? Did yopu understand the formula YOU YOURSELF linked to at all?
What he did here was not numerical simulation. It was to give an exact solution (including air resistance)

The important point is that numerical have an innate error depending on how finely you grain your temporal/spatial mesh. Especially long running numerical simulations will accrue errors.

why we should pay such intellectual exercises from our taxes

He's a highschool student and did this in his spare time. Not a single additional Euro was 'wasted' on this (and if it is correct it will be immensely valuable in a number of fields)
like the cold fusion or antigravity drives are ignored for years

Both did get money for tests. THAT was money truly wasted.

Your ignorance is staggering.
radioisotope
5 / 5 (16) May 29, 2012
You trolling Origin? If you understand numerical methods as you appear to, you should understand the value of an analytic solution from a computational standpoint. Ideally, they are to computational resources what straight flat roads are to gasoline in an engine.

Oh wait. Cold fusion, anti gravity drives?...now I understand. Never mind.
Russkiycremepuff
2.1 / 5 (11) May 29, 2012
If it had taken place in India, I would have been very skeptical because Indian press publishes many fraudulent stories that never happened. Although there are those who are truly mysterious and may have some basis in fact. But being that the boy is a scholar in Germany, I should think that the Germans are much stricter in their estimation of genius and will insist on proven results. That the child was studying calculus at the age of six is quite impressive.
Many Indians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps Sir Isaac Newton has come back in the form of 16 year old to accomplish unfinished business?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (12) May 29, 2012
Many Indians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps Sir Isaac Newton has come back in the form of 16 year old to accomplish unfinished business?
-You mean like pirouette/Ritchieguy keeps coming back to deposit new inanities like no one would notice? From another thread:

Hey russkiyRitchie
Yes, gold can be cast with lost wax method.
Nobody said anything about lost wax method. That was ritchies idea and you wouldn't have known that unless you are him.

You've outed yourself yet again you stupidass.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (11) May 29, 2012
Give it a rest Otto. That he was a sockpuppet was clear from the word 'go'.

It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
tj1616
5 / 5 (2) May 29, 2012
I believe that both a boundary layer and turbulent fluid flows are needed to describe the air resistance in this problem. How can one develop an analytical solution to a problem involving turbulence?
zakolyev
4.6 / 5 (5) May 29, 2012
This is not how to do science journalism. When someone solves a problem, you say what it's called. You don't just talk about the people surrounding it.
davhaywood
5 / 5 (9) May 29, 2012
This example just points to the uselessness of these formal derivations: the particle simulation can handle much more complex situation effortlessly, whereas the analytical solution is useless in most of practical applications. Now the question arises, why we should pay such intellectual exercises from our taxes? We should adopt similar model here, like for financing of art or various sport or personal records collected in Guinness book. Whereas the really useful findings, like the cold fusion or antigravity drives are ignored for years. The mainstream physics proved its separation from reality again.


Have you never heard of great scientific innovations derived from curiosity-driven science? Electromagnetism, penicillin, etc. Governments, if they were actually wise and run by competent people rather than lawyers, would ramp up funding for science as the payback tends to be handsome.
axemaster
1 / 5 (4) May 29, 2012
Weird... I thought these things were long solved. I suspect the reason the solutions weren't found until now was because nobody bothered to look. I'm sure that he's very smart, but let's not get overexcited here...
Terriva
1.2 / 5 (20) May 29, 2012
What he did here was not numerical simulation. It was to give an exact solution (including air resistance)..
This is just what I'm talking about. It's mathematically exact solution of certain situation, but useless from practical perspective anyway. This solution still neglects many aspects of real situation, like the rotation of ball, dissipation of energy and variable elasticity of ball under impact - which will affect the actual path of ball even more, than the air resistance. It's waste of money and effort from this perspective.
Have you never heard of great scientific innovations derived from curiosity-driven science? Electromagnetism, penicillin, etc.
Well, exactly - these finding had nothing to do with derivation of math. BTW The greatest innovation of all time is still cold fusion.
Terriva
1.2 / 5 (19) May 29, 2012
would ramp up funding for science as the payback tends to be handsome
Just the pumping of money into useless formal physics like the string theory has caused the ignorance of practical findings, like the cold fusion. The physicists has learned, their money are going even when they find anything useless, the piling of theories is enough. Why to support just the approach, which deepens such an ignorance even more? You completely missed my point, as the era of formal physics is over - what we need is the curiosity driven science again. Not the jobs, salaries and research grant driven science which is full of ignorance, as we are facing today.
SincerelyTwo
4.2 / 5 (11) May 29, 2012
Well, that was the first time I ever gave antialias 5/5, didn't expect to be ever doing that. :p

Terriva; you're insane, you sound like you're not, but you are. I'd have to exert incredible energy to convince you why, a truly laborious effort to hunt down all of the references and research to demonstrate the intellectual and technical gains in related fields due to that 'wasted money'.

As far as taxes go ... you'd have an easier time attacking $600B war costs rather than the few million we toss around here or there on curiosity and intellectual developments (which are priceless). LHC was what, ~$10B'ish? Next to the iraq war that's a drop in the bucket.

You're fighting an extraordinarily ineffective battle... demonstrating an infinite depth of naivety.

Perspective, got it?
Skepticus
3.7 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
Wait! An neo-Enstein with a toothbrush moustache ROFLOL!
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 29, 2012
Many Indians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps Sir Isaac Newton has come back in the form of 16 year old to accomplish unfinished business?
-You mean like pirouette/Ritchieguy keeps coming back to deposit new inanities like no one would notice? From another thread:

Hey russkiyRitchie
Yes, gold can be cast with lost wax method.
Nobody said anything about lost wax method. That was ritchies idea and you wouldn't have known that unless you are him.

You've outed yourself yet again you stupidass.
- GhostofTardo -

I have been reading the articles and posts in this website long before I registered to comment. Therefore, I have read Richie's and GhostofTardo's and everyone else's posts. Therefore, I know what was said and what was not said. It so happens that if GhostofTardo had done a little research, he would have found that lost wax method can be used for the casting of gold, silver, brass and bronze.
It's pity that he still wishes for me to be this Richie.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 29, 2012
For two years I read the comments of Richie and GhostofRetardo, as well as those of antialias, Callippo, Omatumr and QC and so many others. I know what was said and I know what was correct and incorrect. I have seen that GhostofRetardo pretends to be guardian of the Phys.org with the FrankHerbert who is now CardacianNeverid and other sock puppets enabling all the hot pursuit of the Richie. It also appears to me that GhostofRetardo only chooses certain things I have said to jump on, but leaves everything else alone because he cannot refute them without appearing the fool. It is obviously a part of his neurosis.
I happen to know a little of the metallurgy. One of my cousins is a metallurgist and works with different metals include gold and silver.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 29, 2012
This Richie must be of extreme importance to the GhostofRetardo, as he floods the threads with accusations of myself and others to be the Richie person. I do not believe that is merely inane remarks that offends GhostofRetardo, because I see many others spouting inanities and he does not go after them.
No, I think it is far more than statements made by Richie that were inane. I think that GhostofRetardo has big fascination and obsession with this Richie and possibly love-hate thoughts in his head.
My roommate who is psychologist believes that to be true.
Terriva
1 / 5 (9) May 29, 2012
Terriva; you're insane, you sound like you're not, but you are
Well, if I'm insane, then Andrea Rossi with his cold fusion is fraud and nobody will ask, what the mainstream physics did during last twenty years, when fought against cold fusion research. But if Andrea Rossi will introduce the E-Cat into market, then the layman people will suddenly realize, they're feeding the physicists like parasitic alchemists of modern era and they will ask their money back. IMO this controversy will be resolved soon.
Terriva
1 / 5 (7) May 29, 2012
LHC was what, ~$10B'ish? Next to the iraq war that's a drop in the bucket
The reason of Iraq war was the increasing price of oil, which would never happen, if we would research the cold fusion responsibly. Now this war initiated the financial crisis in the same way, like the lost war in the Vietnam. We all are paying for ignorance of physicists by now.

http://www.aether...food.jpg
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (6) May 29, 2012
No, I think it is far more than statements made by Richie that were inane. I think that GhostofRetardo has big fascination and obsession with this Richie and possibly love-hate thoughts in his head.
Funny... ritchie used to say this very same sort of thing... ritchie.
My roommate who is psychologist believes that to be true.
And what does your learned roommate have to say about pathological liars? And people who insist they see glass-headed martians in NASA pictures even after it is explained to them that those martians would have to be 1000 ft tall and lying down because ritchie did not understand camera angles? Or about how black holes do not attract other black holes with any more intensity than objects of similar mass just because they are also black holes?

Like AA said it would be funny if it werent so pathetic. You must enjoy humiliation SO much.
Isaacsname
5 / 5 (2) May 29, 2012
Isn't there an asymptotic decrease in air friction from spin though ?

Does his solution cover curveballs ?

verkle
1.8 / 5 (5) May 29, 2012
See this link for more information:

http://www.jufo-d...einfo/m1

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 29, 2012
How strange this GhostofRetardo is. I do not recall reading of such psychologist roommate for his boyfriend Richie. I remember in one thread that he said he was getting married. I think that was in January or February or maybe March.
Oh and yes, I also searched for the URL to that website and went to see it. Ethelred said that the hirise camera could only point straight down. He was mistaken. A website explains that the hirise camera is stationary it is true, but the MRO itself is turned to take pictures at oblique angles like hillsides. That was very interesting news. Furthermore, I did not see any glass headed martians in those pictures. Therefore, it is just another one of TheGhostofTardo's lunatic fringe imaginings.
He must be in love with this Richie. And I must also wonder how a moderately intelligent person like antialias could agree with such wild imaginings.
aroc91
5 / 5 (7) May 29, 2012
Russki and Otto: You two are almost as good at going off topic as Vendicar is. That's an achievement.
Briantllb
5 / 5 (2) May 29, 2012
I thought this was about maths.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (7) May 29, 2012
@aroc91
I could say that TheGhostofTardo started this whole thing, and it would be true as you can see on first page and in other threads. But I have stated in the Nikodem Poplawski thread about Black Holes (Page 10) what I intend to do if this GhostofBlotto person does not cease and desist his libelous accusations about me. I am still a foreign guest in America and I will contact the proper authorities and the Russian embassy in which I am employed regarding this libelous harassment I am receiving from this Ghost person. His libelous statements are in print and I will not hesitate to provide the Federal Bureau of Investigation and your State Department with all the information if the Phys.org administration refuses to remove TheGhostofOtto1923 from their website.
I am here to read the science articles and discuss the science with others who are knowledgeable. I am being stopped from doing such things because of someone who appears insane who mistakes me for someone else.
yaseen_khan_980
5 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
Newton reincarnated?

Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (5) May 30, 2012
(laughing) The Newton reincarnation comment was only said in facetious way. The boy is of Indian extraction. Many Indians believe in reincarnation. The article says that even Newton could not figure out the answer in his lifetime, but the boy managed it. Do you get it now?
mathias
5 / 5 (1) May 30, 2012
Here is what the guy came up with: bit . ly / KFSByz
CardacianNeverid
4.4 / 5 (7) May 30, 2012
I am being stopped from doing such things because of someone who appears insane who mistakes me for someone else -RitchRusskyPiroTard

A good definition if insanity is repetitive and increasingly grandiose denials of what is obviously true. You're a much bigger moron than what passes for a 'normal' reality denier on this site.

How about you say something genuinely insightful? No one is stopping you from doing that.
ean
5 / 5 (2) May 30, 2012
Teenager? he looks 30.


He's 16 actually.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
I am being stopped from doing such things because of someone who appears insane who mistakes me for someone else -RitchRusskyPiroTard

A good definition if insanity is repetitive and increasingly grandiose denials of what is obviously true. You're a much bigger moron than what passes for a 'normal' reality denier on this site.

How about you say something genuinely insightful? No one is stopping you from doing that.
- FrankHerbert/bewertow/CardacianNeverid,etc. =

I see the troll FrankHerbert shows himself in his real form as the darling of TheGhostofOtto1923 who has given succor and advice in many past threads to his beloved Ottotard against the enemies of same. CardacianNeverid, et al, is attempting now to pin label of Richie also on me. It has been known from the start that he would do this.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
I suspected all along because I had read so many posts where GhostofOtto and his adoring follower both attacked the Richie in many many threads in their brazen attempt to force this Richie out of the Phys.org website and never to comment again. It seems they have done just that, but now must find a new person to victimise. I recall coming to Origin/Terriva/Callippo's aid while the CardacianNeverid creature was attempting to shut him up. I had said something to the effect that his disagreement with Terriva's hypothesis of AWT was understood, but his censorship of it was not. My defense of Terriva's right to comment against the censorship of the Cardacian/FrankHerbert creature must have festered in his soul and now he comes out in defense of his master, TheGhostofOttoTard. They will both most likely attempt to have me also discontinue from Phys.org comments, but they will see that I am not the one for them to play with. I will do what I must do if they continue their little game.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
And from first page of this thread, here is what I said,
"
Russkiycremepuff
20 hours ago

Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
If it had taken place in India, I would have been very skeptical because Indian press publishes many fraudulent stories that never happened. Although there are those who are truly mysterious and may have some basis in fact. But being that the boy is a scholar in Germany, I should think that the Germans are much stricter in their estimation of genius and will insist on proven results. That the child was studying calculus at the age of six is quite impressive.
Many Indians believe in reincarnation. Perhaps Sir Isaac Newton has come back in the form of 16 year old to accomplish unfinished business?"

Everyone else with a brain that works could see that the latter two sentences were very much tongue in cheek. And the rest of the paragraph displayed great amount of insight.
But it had to be someone like the Cardacian and the GhostofRetardo to remove ALL doubt of their idiocy......
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
and infantilism. As I recall, the Richie person used to say that FrankHerbert and his sock puppets and TheGhostofRetard were unable to comprehend the gist of comments from others. It appears that they STILL have the inability to comprehend the easy sentences and their meanings. Other people have told me that it is also true that their own comments are not comprehended by these two idiots,

And yet, both CardacianNeverid/FrankHerbert et al and TheGhostofBlotto are requiring everyone else to feel their yoke of censorship on the necks of registered Phys.org commenters.
I will find all the posts that the Richie person had made and see what he had said that could be construed as irrelevant and uninsightful by these two idiots who believe themselves to be vastly superior to everyone else.
I find it incredible that anyone can go into a thread where the author submits his hypothesis of Black Holes, and declares another person's hypothesis to be invalid which is what Ottotard has done.
CardacianNeverid
3.6 / 5 (7) May 30, 2012
Lol, give a tard enough rope, he'll hang himself.
Graeme
5 / 5 (1) May 30, 2012
Well the story does not state that he was the first to do this, as I am sure this has been done many times before. The tougher job is to take into account the spinning ball.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
Ah yes, I see that in one of the past threads by doing Search, that the Richie person gave his opinion about the possible purpose of form in the floor. Richie gave opinion that it could be for a metal sickle and both FrankHerbert entered room, (possibly hidden and waiting for Richie to type something), and the two continued to berate the helpless Richie and calling him names such as moron, etc., while completely ignoring the inane opinions of the first posters.
Yes, that leads me to believe that the Richie person was really too intelligent to be allowed to stay in Phys.org, and therefore, they made it their mission to prevent Richie from commenting in any more threads.
I recall that such actions were taken in Soviet Union by those who were loyal to the extreme to our Communist Party and sought to ostracise anyone they regarded as dissenters. This FrankHerbert/CardacianNeverid and TheGhostofRetardo remind me of those people whose goal it was to curry favor with Party leaders.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (7) May 30, 2012
Lol, give a tard enough rope, he'll hang himself.
- CardacianNeverid/FrankHerbert/bewertow -

Oh yes, and you have hung yourself with your own noose. When you die, I am sure you will have fond memories of all the Phys.org commenters that were mistreated by you and your beloved. But do not die just yet, as I am not done with either of you.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
Yes, yes, here is the link to the thread in which the Richie was berated for his innocent opinion and punished for it by FrankHerbert who is now CardacianNeverid and TheGhostofRetardo1923.
Note that at the end of thread, FrankHerbert declares himself "KING OF PHYSORG".
(laughing)

http://phys.org/n...lem.html

I see the lunatic fringe in both of these two. Those commenters who are able to survive their diatribes and invective against free speech have my admiration.
Russkiycremepuff
1 / 5 (6) May 30, 2012
I notice that in the thread, nowhere does the Richie mention anything about the molten metal being cast. It is the GhostofRetardo who brings up the word "cast" in order to berate Richie/Piroutte. I have no knowledge of such metallurgy, therefore I cannot comment on the purpose of the cracks in the floor.

To those who had preferred to comment on the 16 years old boy's math accomplishment, you may thank TheGhostofOttotard for the interruption starting from Page 1 and his follower on this page, CardacianNeverid.
Sonhouse
5 / 5 (4) May 30, 2012
Amazing. If this story had been about a distinguished mathematician all this BS you all have been writing would not have happened. A HS kid does it and the nasty comments flow.
Sonhouse
5 / 5 (3) May 30, 2012
One thing I see, the shape of the object thrown would be difficult to be contained in formulae, for instance, a simple sphere thrown vs a pyramid shape, the reaction of it to the air would not be a simple proposition.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) May 30, 2012
Ritchie threatens otto in another thread...
I will contact the Federal Bureau of Investigation and also the State Department to inform them of your harassment of a foreign guest from Russia.
Here let me help:
http://www.fbi.go.../e-scams
http://travel.state.gov/visa/

-Also for info on sweet sorghum farming:
http://www.doi.gov/index.cfm
http://energy.gov...-sources

-And resources for your particular affliction:
http://www.cdc.go...ditions/
http://www.dmh.ca.gov/

-Anything else you need? Maybe this?
http://www.keepdo...od80qgWg

-Youre welcome.
Sonhouse
5 / 5 (3) May 30, 2012
Boy does THAT have a lot to do with math, ghost.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (5) May 30, 2012
Boy does THAT have a lot to do with math, ghost.
War is all about numbers. Plus for you, minus for your enemies.
Meyer
5 / 5 (3) Jun 02, 2012
"His math equations won him ... second place in the national Math and IT section at finals."
Solving a 350-year-old open problem is good for second place? What came in first??
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Jun 02, 2012
Solving a 350-year-old open problem is good for second place? What came in first??

According to their website first prize went to 17 year-old Julias Kunze for developing a relativistic raytracer (simulation software for calculating what a journey at relativistic speeds would look like)
Eikka
not rated yet Jun 02, 2012
The explicit reason why an analytical solution to a problem is important is that they allow you to test your numerical solutions against a known clean sample of data to determine how good your algorithm is, at arbitrary precision.

An exact solution is better than all the world of empirical data full of noise.
Archetype
5 / 5 (2) Jun 02, 2012
If it had taken place in India, I would have been very skeptical


WTF? You would have been skeptical if it took place in the country that invented the very numerals that are being calculated?!!! You need to open a history book.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 02, 2012
If it had taken place in India, I would have been very skeptical


WTF? You would have been skeptical if it took place in the country that invented the very numerals that are being calculated?!!! You need to open a history book.
The people who invented Hindu-Arabic numerals all died a long long time ago. Get over it.
Terriva
1 / 5 (2) Jun 02, 2012
.. they allow you to test your numerical solutions against a known clean sample of data to determine how good your algorithm is, at arbitrary precision...
The common numerical methods handle this problem automatically in every step of calculations.
An exact solution is better than all the world of empirical data full of noise.
Better for what? It's mathematically exact solution of certain situation, but useless from practical perspective anyway. This solution still neglects many aspects of real situation, like the rotation of ball, dissipation of energy and variable elasticity of ball under impact - which will affect the actual path of ball even more, than the air resistance. It's waste of time and effort from this perspective.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (3) Jun 02, 2012
If you have an exact solution for part of the problem then that's that many dimensions you can take out of your numerical simulation.
This means a LOT in terms needed processing power (or conversely: for the same processing power as before you can use a finer grid and get better simulation results)

The common numerical methods handle this problem automatically in every step of calculations.

How?

You have to test your numerical simulation against a gold standard. If that standard isn't to be had you're either reduced to testing against experimental values or against other simulation environments. Both of which are OK, but moree shakey than having an exact solution to test against. It also makes various numerical approaches comparable so you can pick the best one.
Ducklet
1 / 5 (1) Jun 02, 2012
It's virtually impossible to come up with an exact solution - there are just so many variables.

Air density changes with altitude. Gas composition changes with altitude. Objects deform in the face of air resistance, so a steel ball and a rubber ball with the same mass and shape will differ in trajectory. Different materials have different surface drag. The surface of the earth is a manifold, so in a flattened projection the gravity vector will be variant. With the gravity vector invariant, the surface becomes variant. The earth rotates, and the coriolis force pushes the trajectory away from the equator. Earth in turn is in an orbit. Then there's the moon. Heck, even the pressure of cosmic radiation will push the trajectory towards the surface. So if someone claims to have an "exact" model for the trajectory I'm inclined to ask which variables they chose to ignore (or include as it may be).
Archetype
2.4 / 5 (5) Jun 03, 2012
The people who invented Hindu-Arabic numerals all died a long long time ago. Get over it.


No idiot they had children and their genes now reside in the population of India. This might be a reason why Indians earn the highest income per capita among all the races in America. Im sure you are proud of your ancestors arranging stones in a circle (Stonehenge) somewhere... while Indians at that same time period had cities made up of 2 story brick houses with drainage and sewers.
Tachyon8491
2.5 / 5 (4) Jun 03, 2012
Ghost of Blotto should crawl back to the intellectual sewer where he was incubated. This abjectly base creature is continually compensating for an inferiority complex and pasting his pathetic ego over privileged space where he has nothing to contribute except the doubtful continuance of his conflated genetics.
Terriva
1 / 5 (1) Jun 03, 2012
The common numerical methods handle this problem automatically in every step of calculations.... How? You have to test your numerical simulation against a gold standard.

A quite easily. For example, most common numerical methods converge to the mathematically exact solution in the easily predictable way with decreasing of the time or space step of iterations. Even if you don't exactly know, how numerical method converge, the running it at smaller step will reveal easily, if it converged to the exact solution or not.

In general, the errors following from mathematical simplification of solved problem (the elasticity and deformation of ball, the energy lost during impact, the changes of momentum of ball rotation during impact) greatly extent the numerical errors achievable with every numerical method thinkable. The conclusion is therefore clear: if you need the physically exact modeling of the real situation, use the numerical methods - not the analytical solution.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 03, 2012
Ghost of Blotto should crawl back to the intellectual sewer where he was incubated. This abjectly base creature is continually compensating for an inferiority complex and pasting his pathetic ego over privileged space where he has nothing to contribute except the doubtful continuance of his conflated genetics.
Arkaleus is that you? You forgot the word 'concupiscence'. Please try to include it in your next deposit.
antialias_physorg
3 / 5 (2) Jun 03, 2012
For example, most common numerical methods converge to the mathematically exact solution in the easily predictable way

Which is sort of hard to show if you don't know what the exact solution is (as before someone comes up with it - like this guy).

That 'most simulations do' is not enough to prove that 'any one particular simulation does'. Convergence alone is not an indication that it converges to the right value (it can very well converge to a local minimum in search space that is not the exact solution)

if you need the physically exact modeling of the real situation, use the numerical methods - not the analytical solution.

You can use both at the same time. Physical problems can often be decoupled into a set of exactly calculable parts and parts that need to be simulated (e.g. via FEM or FDM). Separating out a chunk which you can calculate exactly gives you enormous savings in time and computational resources.
Eikka
2.8 / 5 (5) Jun 03, 2012
Even if you don't exactly know, how numerical method converge, the running it at smaller step will reveal easily, if it converged to the exact solution or not.


And how do you know it converges to the exact solution, if you don't have the exact solution? Maybe it converges to a different solution that merely appears correct?

No idiot they had children and their genes now reside in the population of India. This might be a reason why Indians earn the highest income per capita among all the races in America.


Or maybe because there are four times as many Indians as there are Americans in the United States. For every intelligent American, you have four in India, who are more than happy to emigrate to where the money is.
Sonhouse
3 / 5 (2) Jun 04, 2012
Ghost of Blotto should crawl back to the intellectual sewer where he was incubated. This abjectly base creature is continually compensating for an inferiority complex and pasting his pathetic ego over privileged space where he has nothing to contribute except the doubtful continuance of his conflated genetics.
Arkaleus is that you? You forgot the word 'concupiscence'. Please try to include it in your next deposit.

You are quite fond of yourself. You must be THE intellectual giant amongst apes.
antialias_physorg
not rated yet Jun 04, 2012
For every intelligent American, you have four in India, who are more than happy to emigrate to where the money is.

If my own experiences of US high school are anything to go by (though they are 25 years out of date or so) then that's not quite an apt comparison. It isn't just numbers. There is a certain mentality that seems to get people to excel and apply themselves.
The honors roll at the high school I attended was extremely segregated: First the Koreans/Chinese/Japanese. Then a block of indian immigrants, then european immigrants, then americans, and hispanics somehwere at the bottom (not at the bottom of the class, but at the bottom of the honors roll, mind)
Origin
1 / 5 (1) Jun 04, 2012
it can very well converge to a local minimum in search space that is not the exact solution) ... Maybe it converges to a different solution that merely appears correct?
This is very rare case for the simple model examples, which are solvable analytically. Actually, most of numerical methods use this method for dynamic adjustment (coarsening) of computational grid and for many other purposes. Usually when you're able to solve the model analytically, then the numerical methods have no problem with iterative solutions, because these models are constrained to quite trivial examples. And I'm not talking about situation, when analytical solution is available in form of implicit functions or recursive series, which must be evaluated with computer anyway.
.. problems can often be decoupled into a set of exactly calculable parts and parts that need to be simulated..
This is rather rare case and it usually goes at the price of complexity of simulation and stability of solution.
Origin
1 / 5 (1) Jun 04, 2012
For example, in many simulations the higher derivation members of physical model could be used, but it usually decreases the stability up to level, the very small iteration steps must be used and the simulation runs slowly anyway. These optimizations therefore have meaning only at the case, when the numeric solution is already found with sufficient reliability. The analytic solution of simplified model is sometimes used for this purpose.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jun 04, 2012
Ghost of Blotto should crawl back to the intellectual sewer where he was incubated. This abjectly base creature is continually compensating for an inferiority complex and pasting his pathetic ego over privileged space where he has nothing to contribute except the doubtful continuance of his conflated genetics.
Arkaleus is that you? You forgot the word 'concupiscence'. Please try to include it in your next deposit.

You are quite fond of yourself. You must be THE intellectual giant amongst apes.
THIS is a mystery. How can someone make a comment that does not show up on their activity page? I am sure I have seen posts by this dweeb but his activity page shows none of them. Lets try giving him a ranking... nope that didnt work.
Vendicar Dickarian
3 / 5 (2) Jun 05, 2012
Sadly, many of you geniuses failed to note the most important element of this story: that a child of modest means (a teenager at that), without the benefit of an Ivy League math education or other formal training, took the initiative to delve into a complicated and time-consuming effort, a puzzle that has stymied many geniuses.

He should be applauded for merely setting the bar so high, at an age when many of his peers are too busy with girls and video games to worry about the pursuit of knowledge.
MediocreSmoke
5 / 5 (1) Jun 05, 2012
LHC was what, ~$10B'ish? Next to the iraq war that's a drop in the bucket
The reason of Iraq war was the increasing price of oil, which would never happen, if we would research the cold fusion responsibly. Now this war initiated the financial crisis in the same way, like the lost war in the Vietnam. We all are paying for http://pesn.com/2...locaust/


If we went to Iraq because of oil prices, why have they gone up so much since the war? You should go google something called oil speculation, it's what really makes oil expensive. Our going to Iraq had nothing to do with oil, it makes me sad that you're allowed to vote.
I also doubt that someone who can't type correctly makes enough money to qualify to have to pay federal income tax, so you're not paying for anything higher than the state level champ. And even if you were/are, you should check out what tiny percentage of tax money is actually spent on science and innovation.