Should we terraform Mars?

Jan 02, 2012 By Paul Scott Anderson, Universe Today
Artist's conception of a terraformed Mars. Credit: Wikimedia Commons

As we continue to explore farther out into our solar system and beyond, the question of habitation or colonization inevitably comes up. Manned bases on the Moon or Mars for example, have long been a dream of many. There is a natural desire to explore as far as we can go, and also to extend humanity’s presence on a permanent or at least semi-permanent basis. In order to do this, however, it is necessary to adapt to different extreme environments. On the Moon for example, a colony must be self-sustaining and protect its inhabitants from the airless, harsh environment outside.

Mars, though, is different. While future bases could adapt to the Martian environment as well, there is also the possibility of modifying the surrounding environment instead of just co-existing with it. This is the process of terraforming – essentially trying to tinker with Mars’ atmosphere and environment to make it more Earth-like. Although still a long ways off technologically, terraforming the Red Planet is seen as a future possibility. Perhaps the bigger question is, should we?

One of the main issues is whether Mars has any indigenous life or not – how does this affect the question of or terraforming?

If Mars does have any kind of biosphere, it should be preserved as much as possible. We still don’t know yet if any such biosphere exists, but the possibility, which has only increased based on recent discoveries, must be taken into account. Such a precious discovery, which could teach us immensely about how life arose on both worlds, should be completely off-limits. Small colonies might be fine, but living on Mars should not be at the expense of any native habitats, if they exist. The most likely place to find life on Mars is underground. If the surface is truly as sterile and barren as it seems to be, then colonies there shouldn’t be too much of a problem. It has also been suggested that Martian caves would make ideal human habitats, serving as natural protection from the harsh conditions on the surface. True, but if it turned out that something else was already taking up residence in them, then we should leave them alone. If Mars is home to any indigenous life, then terraforming should be a non-issue.

What if Mars is lifeless? Even if no life otherwise exists there, that pristine and unique alien environment, so far barely scratched by humans, needs to be preserved as is as much as possible. We’ve already done too much damage here on our own planet. By studying Mars and other planets and moons in their current natural state, we can learn so much about their history and also learn more about our own world in that context. We should appreciate the differences in and variety of worlds instead of just transforming them to suit our own ambitions.

There is also the more current but related problem of contamination. There has been a long-standing protocol, via the 1967 Outer Space Treaty, to have all spacecraft going to the or Mars sterilized as much as possible. If bacteria from Earth made it to the Martian surface and survived, it would complicate the search for life there; if a lander or rover was to later identify living organisms in the soil, it might be difficult to determine whether they were just contamination or true native life forms. From both a scientific and ethical perspective, it would seem prudent to try to protect Mars as much as we can from earthly intruders. This applies equally to whether Mars is already inhabited or not. Fortunately, for almost any kind of bacteria or other microrganisms from Earth, it would be very difficult if not impossible to survive on the Martian surface, nevermind flourish. The risk of planet-wide contamination is very negligible, but it is still better to take strict preventive measures than to play with chance.

See also this excellent paper by astrobiologist Chris McKay. Some different views from this article on whether Mars should be protected and preserved at all costs or altered to help life to flourish there, but is a good presentation of the current ideas being put on the table. From the summary:

“Planetary ecosynthesis on Mars is being seriously discussed within the field of planetary science. It appears that restoring a thick atmosphere on Mars and the recreation of an environment habitable to many forms of life is possible. It is important now to consider if it “should” be done. To do this takes us into new and interesting territory in environmental ethics but both utilitarian and intrinsic worth arguments support the notion of planetary ecosynthesis. Strict preservationism arguments do not. It is important to have the long-term view of on Mars and the possibilities of planetary ecosynthesis. This affects how we explore Mars now. may well be our first step out into the biological universe, it is a step we should take carefully.”

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User comments : 187

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Sinister1811
3.5 / 5 (39) Jan 02, 2012
"What if Mars is lifeless? Even if no life otherwise exists there, that pristine and unique alien environment, so far barely scratched by humans, needs to be preserved as is as much as possible. Weve already done too much damage here on our own planet."

If it turns out that Mars is dead, dry and desolate. What damage could we possibly do to a dead world? If anything, I think that Terraforming would breathe new life into the planet.
Sinister1811
2.6 / 5 (25) Jan 02, 2012
If it turns out that Mars *is* lifeless and desolate, then what damage could one possibly do to such a dead world anyway? If anything, you'd think that terraforming it would breathe life into the planet.

Edit: Sorry for the double post -- something went wrong and the page froze. Now I can't remove my other post.
phillip_hooper2
4 / 5 (21) Jan 02, 2012
It would be a waste of time and money to try to terraform mars since Mars has no magnetic field. Without a protective shield the planet will be under bombardment from galactic radiation.

It will remain as sterile planet no matter how much money you throw at it.
hard2grep
3.5 / 5 (16) Jan 02, 2012
I have often wondered why people would rather terraform a completely hostile planet, when it would be much easier to get better results here... Face it, we already have the closest thing to a biosphere as possible even if we muck things up.

I do think we need to learn to expand into new territory though. There are way too many people who like to breed, and something has to give somewhere. I suggest sending some prisoners and prostitutes (maybe a couple of trolls)out on a ship and say" if you want your freedom, then here is a shovel..."
Isaacsname
3.5 / 5 (11) Jan 02, 2012
" If Mars does have any kind of biosphere, it should be preserved as much as possible. "

....Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

If we want to see if some sort of self-sustaining " Earth-like " biological processes are possible on Mars or not, we should just send a nice soup, or biological Demi-glace if you prefer. Lots of Lichens :)

Let's not make any false pretenses about our dedication to environmentalism and " saving the environment ".

If travel to Mars turned out to be commercially viable in any way, that would all go out the window.

But who knows ? Maybe somebody will figure out how to generate power on Mars and beam it back to Earth ?

Most of the damage we do here is just in obtaining " energy ".

If we could do something like that, generate a better portion of our energy off-planet, I would be all for it.

MR166
2.5 / 5 (16) Jan 02, 2012
"It will remain as sterile planet no matter how much money you throw at it."

Ah, if only we could come to this realization when it comes to most of our government programs here in the US.
javjav
3.5 / 5 (12) Jan 02, 2012
We have eroded, contaminated, and sterilized a lot of earth soil up to the point that it is useless and Mars-like. First terraform this soil and recover it, then think about other planets.
naqe
3 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
We could of course tog a huge ice amount of ice that is in the solar system and put it on Mars.
There is a lot of water in the solar system in the form of ice.
It would take some time of course, but it is probably a good start in forming a new Mars.
Nilas_Ralph_Sanders
2.6 / 5 (8) Jan 02, 2012
i know nothing about space travel or going to other worlds.seems to me we need to clean earth first, our soil and water, lakes,rivers and shores are highly polluted.moon and mars would be a steping stone to other worlds as ours will end some day, maybe sooner then we think
rawa1
2.1 / 5 (12) Jan 02, 2012
Why not to start with terraforming of Earth? If nothing else, then to stop with life environment pollution. I presume it will be still cheaper and faster than the terraformation of Mars and it could save many endangered species, which are missing at Mars anyway.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.9 / 5 (19) Jan 02, 2012
Mars needs significant amounts of water - and a magnetic field - for it to become habitable outside of a small cluster of domes.

Until a means of delivering a significant number of comets to it's surface can be found, the idea of terraforming Mars will remain just a comedic vision.
Adiaphoron
2.7 / 5 (10) Jan 02, 2012
It is a bit comic that we talk of terraforming another planet when many of us forget to water our own houseplants. I can appreciate the enthusiasm for what might be possible, but I think we'd best demonstrate some "self-care" disciplines before we try to change another world.
Tomator
3 / 5 (4) Jan 02, 2012
There are billions of stars and therefore planets in the universe we can learn about. The Mars is the best to learn about colonization and terraforming our future discoveries and we should not hesitate to do so. Now, as we learnt something how to warm up the climate on our home planet we can try to do the same on the Mars. Would Martians hesitate to wipe us all if they needed the Earth? We would learm more from their dead bodies than from living ones. Go ahead, people!
WhiteJim
2.1 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
Mars has nothing worth saving even if some microbes exist there. Put a rocket on a comet and stear it to impact mars with a load of water. The experience gained doing this with Mars will someday help save the Earth from the next extinction impact event that will wipe out humanity
Isaacsname
3 / 5 (2) Jan 02, 2012
The paper is worth reading, imo.
Sinister1811
1.4 / 5 (13) Jan 02, 2012
Either that, or start a runaway greenhouse effect and melt both the polar ice caps to give it a thicker atmosphere and hopefully a surface ocean as well. But then again, I think the comet idea would be the quicker, more efficient way. Then there's the problem of its weak magnetic field.
Mou
2.3 / 5 (6) Jan 02, 2012
Seeing as we humans are unable to even tackle the environmental issues of our own planet because no one wants to float the bill; I see it as rather improbable that we will ever care enough to terraform Mars.
210
2 / 5 (18) Jan 02, 2012
Mars needs significant amounts of water - and a magnetic field - for it to become habitable outside of a small cluster of domes.

Until a means of delivering a significant number of comets to it's surface can be found, the idea of terraforming Mars will remain just a comedic vision.

Vendi- you know those magnets that hold your weed...oops...I mean that stick to your refrigerator? That is about how powerful the earth's magnetic field is. Someone with your mind-power - when SOBER, could devise a planetary mag-field generator! As for water, SPACE has megatons of it and we do not know if Mars has none (water table, etc.) Again it may be necessary, during terraforming to PLACE a temporary atmosphere to protect new plant life. BUT FIRST, we really need to fix the humans we send up there: no haters, no baiters, no racists, or extremists of a violent sort. Ban world war, no resource hogging...hummm, looks like we will not be going for a few billion years!
word-to-ya-muthas
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (29) Jan 02, 2012
This study shows just how crazy and anti human many environmentalist are. They waste money and resources worrying about protecting a lifeless world from technology that we do not have (and may not have for hundreds of years if ever)

They show that they would rather protect a lifeless world over helping and improving the life of people. IF we can terraform Mars and if it benefits of people why would any sane person have any issues with it?
Ramael
3.4 / 5 (7) Jan 02, 2012
I have often wondered why people would rather terraform a completely hostile planet, when it would be much easier to get better results here... Face it, we already have the closest thing to a biosphere as possible even if we muck things up.


Land. Its no secret that the earth is simply overpopulated, and its the rising demand for resources from the earth that contribute to our impact on it. If we can spread our population out over many worlds, then we will be facing better results here.

Also think about ecological preservation. An endangered species on earth might have better chances on a terraformed mars, where we can manipulate the ecology in its favor. The earth like any world is also subject to natural disasters, which can threaten species and ecosystems.

Plus, research into global scale climate control in the interest of terraformation could help us to learn about processes here on earth, and could be applied to the earths ecosystems to promote increased stability.
jsberry
3.3 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
To terraform Mars correctly would probably take hundreds to thousands of years. Some of the things you would need to do would be:

1. Give Mars a large moon to stabilize its tilt. Ceres is close and would probably work.

2. Add some water. A few hundred years worth of cometary bombardments from the outer solar system would work for this.

3. Add in a bit more mass to hold in the atmosphere. Vesta and the rest of the asteroid belt and some of the minor moons of the outer planets should work for this. The mass could be added slowly via the space elevators below or if could just be dropped directly if cooling time is not an issue.

4. Give Mars a magnetic field. I am thinking we could build a few dozen space elevators around the equator and from that begin work on a large coil of superconducting wire that wraps completely around Mars in geosynchronous orbit, attached to the elevators. This would work pretty well I think.

5. Let it cool and add life.
winthrom
3.3 / 5 (8) Jan 02, 2012
Let us push asteriods (many are Iron) onto Mars. They are nearby, and slow solar sails might do the trick. These will help with extra mass, and create a gread deal of heat, which will help imbed the iron ibto the core, and may help add a magnetic field. Then, let us push ice commets from the Ort belt onto Mars to create as much water on the surface as possible. These sources may (or may not) have indiginous life, but either way, they will not contaminate Mars from Earth unless we are sloppy about how we push these bodies to Mars orbit. If we are careful about how we impact these bodies we can increase/decrease the tilt of Mars for a better climate. We WILL increase the mass. We might lower the orbit of Mars a bit more into the goldylocks life zone, but not too close to have any effect on Earth.

This is very nice, and I expect we can do this by the year 3000.

For now, I suggest we learn birth control here on Earth so as not to destroy our little perti dish of life as we know it.
Dunbar
4.2 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
Why bother getting stuck at the bottom of another gravity well? Once we get into space we might as well simply stay there. Build orbital habitats where we have complete control of the environment, rather than throw resources at a big, big rock.

Anyway, the lack of a magnetic field means Mars cannot retain an atmosphere. Venus can, and is better candidate for terraforming.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (14) Jan 02, 2012
I have often wondered why people would rather terraform a completely hostile planet, when it would be much easier to get better results here... Face it, we already have the closest thing to a biosphere as possible even if we muck things up.
Survival of what may be the only intelligent species in the universe, is the FIRST and most important consideration. And the only way to begin to do this, is to scatter humanity about the solar system in completely autonomous, secure, and self-sustaining settlements.

Right now we live on a very vulnerable little dust mote in a very dangerous and hostile environment.
Land. Its no secret that the earth is simply overpopulated, and its the rising demand for resources from the earth that contribute to our impact on it.
Moving people off-planet will not affect the growth rate and overpopulation problem here. It was the same with europe after 1500. This is the nature of life whether it be virus, rodent, or human.
nkalanaga
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 02, 2012
Javjav: Practicing on Earth's messes is probably where we will learn terraforming. If it doesn't work here, there likely won't be a civilization to go anywhere else.

Jsberry: Cooling time likely isn't an issue. Mars needs to be warmed anyway, and a few impacts in areas with a lot of frozen water or CO2 would be perfect. All we would need to worry about is limiting the size so that the volatiles stay on Mars instead of being blasted into space.

Dunbar: Also a very good idea, and we'll probably do it. Planets do have one advantage, though, and, ironically, that's their gravity. If your station has a leak, you have to import more volatiles. If a planetary habitat leaks, you can recapture the volatiles. Mars' air may not be breathable, but it can be made breathable with less work than mining comets or planetary atmospheres for a station. For commerce, stations are the way to go. For survival, the planet has advantages.
NMvoiceofreason
3.5 / 5 (6) Jan 02, 2012
Mars is just the first step. Venus is just the second step. Proxima and other stars call our name, asking when we will be ready to help them live.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (12) Jan 02, 2012
Why bother getting stuck at the bottom of another gravity well?
Because its safer down there. More room to grow more quickly and more easily-acquired resources with which to do so.

But in order to protect ground-based life it will be essential to establish a military presence throughout the system. The threat of annihilation from redirected asteroids replaces the current threat we now face from WMDs.
GDM
3.9 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
Let's see, move humans to Mars or fix Earth first? False choice, we must do both. Sooner or later we will face extinction if we stay on Earth (probably a long time from now, but better to plan ahead). I'm with Dunbar on this one. Why get stuck in another gravity well? Ghost is mostly right, but off-planet colonies will happen way before we can terraform any other planet.
Husky
1.7 / 5 (3) Jan 02, 2012
terraforming seems to much effort as opposed to closed colonies, but i would like to see a hydrogen gasgun on top of Olympus Mons, that gives some headstart of 32 km of height and verly little airfriction, giving these factors plus less than halve the escape velocity i crudely estimate you can launch 3,5 times the payload using a quicklaunch gun with the same size as projected on earth.
Husky
2.8 / 5 (4) Jan 02, 2012
alternatively, phobos and deimos could be used as sacrificial spacetugs, wrapped in a kevlar bag with a long tether attached and you launch stuff to the tetherhook , grabbing and accellerating it at slight expense of phobos/deimos orbit, but since their masses are 1.08e 16 and 1.08e 15 kg you could haul some heavy stuff before they crash into mars
WhiteJim
3.2 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
Sooner or later we will face extinction if we stay on Earth (probably a long time from now, but better to plan ahead).

Sooner or later means it can happen in 30 minutes from now or 1000 years from now. We face extinction every minute that we are only on Earth. Man must reside off the planet and in as many different places as possible to be safe ... in space, on moons and on other planets and around other suns...
RonPaul1
Jan 02, 2012
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
freethinking
1.2 / 5 (23) Jan 02, 2012
I've seen a show that said the best alternate planet to reside on is Venus using floating cities.
DigitalFreak
2 / 5 (2) Jan 02, 2012
I think we should terraform Mars and any other planet we can, once we can, the issue is we are far off from being able to do this so I think we should keep up the research while trying to fix the numerous issues we have on our own planet, Pollution, over population we have what 7 billion people on the planet most of them we cannot feed now, personally I think you fix the over population problem with limiting the amount of children people can have, and it would be much easier to fix the pollution problem. Mind you mother nature has her ways of correcting over population so point is probably moot, its just a matter of time.
RonPaul1
1 / 5 (17) Jan 02, 2012
I think we should terraform Mars and any other planet we can, once we can, the issue is we are far off from being able to do this so I think we should keep up the research while trying to fix the numerous issues we have on our own planet, Pollution, over population we have what 7 billion people on the planet most of them we cannot feed now, personally I think you fix the over population problem with limiting the amount of children people can have, and it would be much easier to fix the pollution problem. Mind you mother nature has her ways of correcting over population so point is probably moot, its just a matter of time.


Stop feeding Africa.
bg1
2.7 / 5 (3) Jan 02, 2012
Any atmosphere above what is on Mars presently would be swept away by the solar wind, because Mar's magnetic field is too weak to deflect it. Terraforming Mars would require some means of deflecting the solar wind.
RitchieGuy
1.2 / 5 (22) Jan 02, 2012
GDM says:
Let's see, move humans to Mars or fix Earth first? False choice, we must do both. Sooner or later we will face extinction if we stay on Earth (probably a long time from now, but better to plan ahead). I'm with Dunbar on this one. Why get stuck in another gravity well? Ghost is mostly right, but off-planet colonies will happen way before we can terraform any other planet.


Before humans can occupy Mars and change things around to suit human life, you have to make sure that there are no intelligent life forms living there. It's easy to say we should do this and we should do that, and yet have no regard for possible life that's there already. it's always the same story. . .like the European invasion of the Americas with no regard for the native Americans who were there first. That's all humans want to do. . .invade, conquer and ruin the lives of the natives. Pathetic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (15) Jan 02, 2012
Pathetic.

These are the kinds of comments richieguy/NamVet666/pirouette et al likes to post:

"I spent 2 years in VietNam killing gooks. . .one more a$$hole won't make any difference. LOL....maybe you need to read further up. . .there's plenty of provocation for a good killing. I think I would be doing Physorg a favor LOL"
http://www.physor...bon.html

"Ghost is obviously into picking up gay men in gay bars. . .he/she knows all about ballerinas and their moves. He/she is also an interior decorator. He/she wants to redecorate FrankHerbert's hovel and then have sex together."
http://www.physor...rod.html

-engage with this person at your own risk-
GDM
3.2 / 5 (6) Jan 02, 2012
"Before humans can occupy Mars and change things around to suit human life, you have to make sure that there are no intelligent life forms living there."

Of course, you state the obvious. Should have stopped at that. The European conquest of the Americas was done by different people with different mindsets. We know better now (well, perhaps) so that is why NASA (and hopefully, Russia) do their best to completely sterilize our interplanetary landers before launch. Mars may eventually be "home" for some ex-earthlings, but by then there will be colonies (or new nations?) on the moon and larger "colonies" in free space, with gravity providede by centrifugal rotation.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (21) Jan 02, 2012
looks like we have a new sockpuppet master:

Fagamemnon, OverweightAnatolian, PetiteAmerican, PaoloITipBasso

Who is your master? I have a few guesses,

Who agrees that those who use sockpuppets to raise or lower scores are scum buckets.
FrankHerbert
2.5 / 5 (90) Jan 02, 2012
Here is a link to Pirouette's (or maybe his "girlfriend's" who knows) Mars blog where he sees all manner of things that are not there:

www.marscritters.blogspot.com

And here is a link to the physorg article where he first linked it so you know I'm not falsely attributing it to him:

http://www.physor...und.html

This person is bona fide crazy. Probably a paranoid schizophrenic. He/she literally sees things that are not there. He/she thinks he/she can coax censored information that NASA has intentionally hidden in photographs of Mars.

The three photos above show a closeup of the cave-like structure which does NOT appear to be natural. Rather, it seems, to me, that it is artificial and may be housing for these gigantic humanoids.

One has to wonder what could possibly have motivated the NASA scientists to destroy the glassy covering on this rock, and thereby probably killing the creatures that lived inside.


Crazy, lazy, and dumb.
Howhot
4.7 / 5 (35) Jan 02, 2012
Terraform Mars? Terraform Mars? Heck, we will probably need to terraform Earth in 100 years with the lack of a coordinated response to global warming. But never mind. That is off topic.

_nigmatic10
2 / 5 (7) Jan 02, 2012
Unless we find a way to increase mars magnetic field, anything else we would or could do would be a waste.
Hari_Seldon
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 02, 2012
We should definitely seek to expand beyond Earth. If terraforming mars proves practical, it should be done! Any single celled lifeforms that could currently exist on Mars could probably survive in niche habitats even after terraforming, much like extremophiles on Earth. If not we could catalog their genetic material (DNA?) and transplant them somewhere else.

The magnetic field is a major problem, but I doubt an intractable one. We're talking about terraforming planets here after all! No one said it would be easy.
RonPaul1
1 / 5 (15) Jan 02, 2012
Haiti is a lost cause, but I have hope on planet Mars. :-)
rbrtwjohnson
2 / 5 (4) Jan 02, 2012
The Earth's natural resources are vital to the survival and development of the human population, but these resources will not last forever due to ever growing demands of a hungry world population. It is time to seek for new resources on other planets. I think terraforming Mars will be a steadier step for a long-term survival of the human species and civilization. http://www.youtub...k19hn7Rc
RonPaul1
Jan 02, 2012
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
The_P
2.8 / 5 (4) Jan 02, 2012
I agree with the goal of taking care of Earth as a main priority, I feel as a human race we need to continue to push the boundaries of our world and our minds. I feel we should continue living with the goal of trying to create that which lives in our imagination. The future is only answered with maybes and it those who have a great spirit that will turn the maybes into finite answers. I like the idea of terraforming mars if only for intellectual challenge, though there may be other challenges that come before this, we must be tenacious in our intellectual prowess.
RonPaul1
1.6 / 5 (18) Jan 02, 2012
If you can master habitats in space, then there is no need to terraform any planet.
RonPaul1
1 / 5 (19) Jan 02, 2012
I agree with the goal of taking care of Earth as a main priority, I feel as a human race we need to continue to push the boundaries of our world and our minds. I feel we should continue living with the goal of trying to create that which lives in our imagination. The future is only answered with maybes and it those who have a great spirit that will turn the maybes into finite answers. I like the idea of terraforming mars if only for intellectual challenge, though there may be other challenges that come before this, we must be tenacious in our intellectual prowess.

Human species, not human race. Race is a subspecies. Moron.
RitchieGuy
1.2 / 5 (35) Jan 02, 2012
RonPaul says:
The amount of money spent on Negroids and entertainment sickens me. We would already be on Mars by now if people didn't focus on stupid shit. Entertainment is a distraction from death. It is what keeps most people sane, sadly.


Sadly, it's a fact of life that the majority of the populations of Earth are lost without their entertainment fix. It is not as powerful a drug as their dependence on illegal drugs and alcohol, but it does tend to keep them a bit sedated while the people who really count are off somewhere discovering marvelous things.
But Mars may be populated already and pictures don't lie, no matter how it's received by those who haven't the wherewithal to accept life elsewhere. If it isn't on Earth, then it isn't life, is their mantra. Such pitiful creatures who rant about others who have the capability of finding life on other places than the little rock called Earth. Such people prefer to be idiots for the remainder of their lives. Too bad.
RonPaul1
Jan 02, 2012
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Howhot
4.5 / 5 (13) Jan 02, 2012
Hay FrankH, so how do you think the "giant" semi-transparent "humanoids" would taste Crab-boiled? I say we bring one down to New Orleans and cook it.
Jeddy_Mctedder
1.6 / 5 (11) Jan 02, 2012
how about we start with terraforming earth before we worry about mars.
FrankHerbert
2.2 / 5 (80) Jan 02, 2012
Hay FrankH, so how do you think the "giant" semi-transparent "humanoids" would taste Crab-boiled? I say we bring one down to New Orleans and cook it.


Probably not very good :(

Pirouette flails around babbling about them being "not carbon-based" ever since he saw that article talking about the possibility of silicon-based life. His diseased mind really ran with that one because it made his ideas every-so-slightly less absurd (well, at least to him).

So assuming they are silicon-based, I'm guessing very sandy or like eating concrete. Maybe if we put them in the crockpot long enough they'll soften up?
kshultz222_yahoo_com
4.8 / 5 (34) Jan 02, 2012
There is plenty of water already on Mars. Create an atmosphere, and it would melt and flow. It might not be like Earth, but it would be enough to satisfy a lot of uses.

On another subject, sometimes people over-think things. Sure search for other life. Study it. "Protect" it. Protect us from it...but do not delay settling there if possible. Finding life there would be scientifically very important, but microbes there are really no more important than microbes here. They have no greater right to life. How hard is that concept to understand?...And why again is it so important to protect all the barren wastelands? Create parks like we do here, and settle on the rest. Duh. But first it needs an atmosphere.
Howhot
4.5 / 5 (11) Jan 02, 2012
Silicon-based... semi-transparent sounds like a challenge for the Iron-Chefs. I bet they taste like oysters with a little silicon-dioxide grit. Heck, they might be better with Champlain (or sparkling wine if your not in the French quarters) instead of crab boil and cold beer. Sorry off topic.

FrankHerbert
2.2 / 5 (84) Jan 02, 2012
Well, we may have to upgrade to Diamond-Chefs in order to cut the creatures if they truly are silicon-based. I'm reluctant to even continue with this satire because Pirouette will likely see this as a serious discussion and wish to join in.

What a numbskull.
RitchieGuy
2.7 / 5 (69) Jan 02, 2012
Looks like FrankHerbertfart and Howhot aka Cowsnot are contemplating cannibalizing of possible intelligent creatures. What a numbskull. . .LOL

http://www.physor...lem.html

At the end of that thread, FrankHerbert$hitface refers to himself as "KING OF PHYSORG" and believes that Pirouette was banned. . . .Pirouette has never been banned from Physorg. That is just FrankHerbert$hitface's insane imagination where thrills run up and down his legs at the thought of getting rid of people he doesn't like so that he can use his sockpuppets on all the rest of the members. heheheheh Mars rules.
FrankHerbert
2.1 / 5 (77) Jan 02, 2012
Hmm are you playing semantics with the definition of the word banned?

To put it simply, can you make a post on the account Pirouette? If your account is not able to post, it is banned. Sorry, buddy.

Why else would you have spent the last two days posting on new names (NamVet666, RitchieGuy) that can only post every 60 minutes? You've even openly complained about the posting limit on both names.

If the posting limit is so annoying why not post on Pirouette? Or NamVet666 for that matter? I'm guessing NamVet666 was all ready banned which is why you went to your new name.

I await your response in an hour ;)
RonPaul1
1.2 / 5 (21) Jan 02, 2012
People who don't believe in going to space need to go to prison, and get a cock up their ass. Anyone who speaks out against space travel should suffer the consequences.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (36) Jan 02, 2012
Here is the FULL TEXT of FrankHerbert$hithead's raving lunatic post that proclaims himself "KING OF PHYSORG".

""Here is an inscription worthy of an ancient temple:

I, Frank Herbert, King of Physorg, have vanquished the scourge known as Pirouette, irrational ballerina VietNam[sic] veteran.

On 12/27/12011 Human Era, the scourge ceased posting ([url]http://www.physor...activity[/url] ). My best astronomers were able to determine via the unquenchable ferocity of the scourge's posting that the only explanation for his silence was banishment from the realm.

ALAS! He has returned in the form of NamVet666 ([url]http://www.physor...activity[/url] ). He will be vanquished again with even more tireless effort and ferocity than before. The people rejoiced at my proclamations. I love my people.

Pirouette, all your base are belong to us. You have no chance to survive make your time.""

It is a well known fact that FrankHerbert$hithead loves to fart around as a RACE-BAITER. He uses HOWHOT AKA COWSNOT as his shill t
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (33) Jan 02, 2012
FrankHerbert$hit and Howhot/Cowsnot go into threads looking for victims in their smear campaign to label members as RACISTS and BIGOTS. They have done it to me and several others and will continue to do it to anyone they think is an easy mark. What insanity. And they love doing it. . . .as they get their rocks off at the discomfiture of other members when they are called racists. Such mental illness is condoned by their friends and supporters.
Mars rules.
antialias_physorg
3.9 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2012
Why we shouldn't terraform Mars:

1) If there is life on Mars it will probably not be able to cope with the radical change in environment. before we haven't studied Mars IN DEPTH (literally!) we shouldn't go about messing with it
2) An atmosphere on Mars - even if it had the right composition - would not be breathable, since it would be too thin. Gravity is important for keeping an atmosphere of a certain density around. Mars doesn't have enough
3) Radiation levels on Mars are too high for open living. If we go underground, anyways, then going for a closed system isn't much of an additional hassle.

But once rocket tech becomes cheap some dumb idiot will indubitably launch a bacteria-ball at Mars in the hopes of 'terraforming' it...screwing up the planet in the process.
Vendicar_Decarian
4.1 / 5 (17) Jan 03, 2012
Ritchieguy = NeumenTard = RitchieTard

RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (22) Jan 03, 2012
@VendiTard. . . .CrankHerbert has a NEW sockpuppet named GuyRitchie. I saw it in RonPaul1's Activity tab

CrankHerbert must have about. . .maybe 16 or 17 sockpuppets now. 18 counting his regular name. Nice to know he's your butt buddy, Vendi.
ubavontuba
2.3 / 5 (18) Jan 03, 2012
Anyway, the lack of a magnetic field means Mars cannot retain an atmosphere. Venus can, and is better candidate for terraforming.
Surprisngly, Venus has no intrinsic magnetic field.

http://en.wikiped...and_core

Jonseer
2.8 / 5 (4) Jan 03, 2012
Anyway, the lack of a magnetic field means Mars cannot retain an atmosphere. Venus can, and is better candidate for terraforming.
Surprisngly, Venus has no intrinsic magnetic field.

http://en.wikiped...and_core



good one!

You should have also noted that the intensity of the solar winds at Venus distance from the sun vs. Mars is many times greater than at the distance Mars is from the sun. Solar flares would also be deadly at the level of clouds currently absurd notions place all efforts to colonize that planet.
Skepticus_Rex
1.7 / 5 (22) Jan 03, 2012
Mars likely would be the better choice for terraforming. Venus, on the other hand, has an atmosphere that is over 90 times denser than that of Earth. For Venus, we also would have to develop technology to rid Venus of a good amount of its atmosphere first.

Perhaps a joint project could be developed wherein atmosphere is taken from Venus and given to Mars, later converting it to oxygen once thick enough. Either scenario presents great technological hurdles.

In any case mankind needs to go beyond Mars and Venus if mankind is to survive beyond the next million to billion years. The Sun is ramping up its fusion, and because of this Earth will become uninhabitable long before the Sun moves itself out of the Main Sequence.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (43) Jan 03, 2012
There must be a 'Mars First' organization out there opposing human contamination of Mars.
Isaacsname
1 / 5 (1) Jan 03, 2012
There must be a 'Mars First' organization out there opposing human contamination of Mars.


That's nothin'...wait till the " Occupy Mars " folks get riled up.
Noumenon
3.7 / 5 (75) Jan 03, 2012
MODERATORS PLEASE BAN RonPaul1 !!!!

I find it fascinating and suspicious that FrankHerbert has skipped right past the OBVIOUS racist RonPaul1's posts above without a mention.

FrankHerbert has a long history on physorg, of not missing an opportunity, in falsely accusing other members of racist comments. I prove this below.

Now why would he not even flinch at RonPaul1, who is inarguably a racist?!

The falsely accused:
geokstr
Quantum_Conundrum
ryggesogn2
Doug_Huffman
Dogbert
Noumenon
Pirouette
ArtflDgr
paulthebassguy
rgwalther

http://www.physor...rod.html

http://www.physor...bon.html

http://medicalxpr...ids.html

http://medicalxpr...ews.html

http://www.physor...ank.html

....
Noumenon
2.8 / 5 (114) Jan 03, 2012
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (56) Jan 03, 2012
FH you've been outed as a sockpuppet master, you should at least have been a little bit cleaver about it! That's very progressive of you.
Noumenon
2.8 / 5 (113) Jan 03, 2012
PhysOrg can cut down considerably on this childish nonsense if they would simply allow commenting and/or rating for donating members only.

I suspect he is disabled living off of government cheese.

A partial list of FranklyHubris's screen names, which he uses to vote down other members, as is evidenced by looking at my activity page and his.

IVT
RacistsCommieHypocrite
iTwanker
Libtard
ryggesogn3
gregor2
CManhole82
DenseAetherTheory
Pirouline, PetiteAmerican
PaoloIlTipoBasso
Fagamemnon
FrankHerbert
camshaft
Apoagogic
Pirouette2
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (43) Jan 03, 2012
The falsely accused:
Pirouette

These are the kinds of comments richieguy/NamVet666/pirouette et al likes to post:

"I spent 2 years in VietNam killing gooks. . .one more a$$hole won't make any difference. LOL....maybe you need to read further up. . .there's plenty of provocation for a good killing. I think I would be doing Physorg a favor LOL"
http://www.physor...bon.html

"Ghost is obviously into picking up gay men in gay bars. . .he/she knows all about ballerinas and their moves. He/she is also an interior decorator. He/she wants to redecorate FrankHerbert's hovel and then have sex together."
http://www.physor...rod.html

-engage with this freak at your own risk-
Noumenon
3.3 / 5 (84) Jan 03, 2012
@TheGhostofOtto1923, The "gook" comment may be racist if taken out of context of the vietnam war, yes conceded, but FrankHerbert has accused Pirouette of making specific use of the N-word via PM,.. which I believe to be a fabrication, as FrankHerbert has made the same accusation of me.

So therefore I will leave richieguy/NamVet666/Pirouette on that long list.
Returners
1.5 / 5 (40) Jan 03, 2012
yall can go ahead and give up on your circumplanetary space elevator gimmick. Even the tensile strength of graphene or carbon nanotubes is not high enough to ever make something like that.

Why crash vesta or Ceres into Mars either? That is a waste of energy and resources, since if you have the technology to do all that, you could more easily encase Ceres in living spaces and use it's resources as a permanent world ship.

The problem with Terraforming is that by the time any civilization has the technology to do it in a timely manner, they would no longer need planets at all, and would more efficiently live in space platforms and world ships.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (11) Jan 03, 2012
Hey Returners/CAM/ritchieguy/namvet/pirouette yall still too lazy to look things up? Or you just enjoy pretending you know stuff even though you dont? Yall could learn something new in the time it takes you to make a new sockpuppet ya know.

"Recent concepts for a space elevator are notable for their plans to use carbon nanotube or boron nitride nanotube based materials as the tensile element in the tether design, since the measured strength of carbon nanotubes appears great enough to make this possible." etc
Xbw
1.9 / 5 (18) Jan 03, 2012
Got tired of reading all the comments but I do agree on one point. We can't do much to it unless we find a way to generate a planetary magnetic field. Until then, domes will do fine but getting most life to exist on the planet will require protection against the constant bombardment of the sun.
Pino
1 / 5 (40) Jan 03, 2012
Venus or Mars ? we have not enough data on the processes.
But Venus surface is 3,17 larger than the surface of Mars
and the solar energy per square meter near Venus is 4,4 times that of Mars.
Terraforming Venus will need a lot of energy to extract MgO from chondrites, as reactant for MgO CO2 > MgCO3 et similar reactions -
How difficult is to bring an atmosphere on Mars? How difficult is to scale down the atmosphere of Venus? for each square mile on Venus we must remove 40 times the mass of gas requested for pressurizing one sqm on Mars. A mass of MgO equal to the mass of Vesta (a ball of nearly the same diameter) will not be enough for Venus. But some MgO will be extracted from the crust by the impacts. How much ?
Returners
2.3 / 5 (12) Jan 03, 2012
Pino:

You cannot terraform Venus*, it's just too damn hot, period.

Even if you could cool Venus down to human-friendly temperatures (or even man-made machine-friendly temps,) it's surface would be covered in a few dozen meters of liquid CO2 oceans (see phase diagram for CO2 on google or wikipedia).

Even if Venus' atmosphere had no CO2 at all, the planet's mean surface temperature would still be about twice the Earth's mean surface temperature.

So effectively, the only way you could cool Venus to an Earth-like temperature would be if you could build a giant reflector large enough to quite literally block at least a half, maybe even two thirds of the sunlight from hitting the planet, OR move the entire planet at least as far away from the Sun as the Earth currently is.

Anyone technologically capable of doing either of these would no longer need a planet to live on anyway.
FrankHerbert
2.4 / 5 (86) Jan 03, 2012
I don't know if Returners is Pirouette, but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

I'm assuming omatumr was banned seeing as he hasn't posted since 12/30/11. I would appreciate some public thanks for that people.

Pino, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:56 am
omatumr, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:57 am
Parsec, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

Who knows how many usernames omatumr has saved up?
FrankHerbert
3 / 5 (111) Jan 03, 2012
I don't know if Returners is Pirouette, but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

I'm assuming omatumr was banned seeing as he hasn't posted since 12/30/11. I would appreciate some public thanks for that people.

Pino, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:56 am
omatumr, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:57 am
Parsec, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

Who knows how many usernames omatumr has saved up?


I found another one.

http://www.physor...ohitasch

Rohitasch, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

I guess as long as we keep him honest he may refrain from spamming neutron repulsion garbage all over the site.

I can put up with the occasional crank comment from him. I doubt he will return to the level of spamming he dished out immediately prior to his ban. I guess he knows better now.

You are welcome Physorg.
Isaacsname
5 / 5 (34) Jan 03, 2012
.....you people are all batshit crazy :D

..That is all, continue plz
Noumenon
3.5 / 5 (79) Jan 03, 2012
I don't know if Returners is Pirouette, but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

I'm assuming omatumr was banned seeing as he hasn't posted since 12/30/11. I would appreciate some public thanks for that people.

Pino, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:56 am
omatumr, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:57 am
Parsec, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

Who knows how many usernames omatumr has saved up?


Probably not as many as you, but probably a lot.

But, unless you can convince the PhysOrg moderators to allow posting only for donating members, and/or email references for IP regulating web-mail services only,.. I will hold off on congratulating you.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (56) Jan 03, 2012
LOL. . .it seems that FrankHerbertfart is attempting to throw off the scent leading to HIS own sockpuppetry. He has been OUTED and no kind of DAMAGE CONTROL on his part can remove the lack of credibility that he has so willingly given himself.
For some strange reason, Frank the Crank seems to think that if a member of Physorg doesn't comment for a few days, it automatically means he has been banned.
Pirouette was NOT banned. . .just took a few days off from the internet.

Mars rules
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (55) Jan 03, 2012
I saw that Frank the Crank has a new sockpuppet named GuyRitchie. . .he does that to the Physorg memberships' user names. . .turns it around like he did mine. . .or adds a different number or letter, whatever he likes to do to make the other member's think it is the original name doing the downgrading or upgrading of scores in any thread.
Frank the Crank is a sicko and should be banned forever from Physorg for his playing members off each other and race baiting.

Mars rules.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (50) Jan 03, 2012
I deleted my former name, Pirouette because I never liked it. I deleted that name the same day that I registered the one I have now. This is the only name I have now, and anybody says I have more than one is a damned liar.

Mars rules
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (22) Jan 03, 2012
Noumenon. . .Mexico is great. I'm thinking of moving down here.
As far as terraforming Mars, I think it is a stupid idea until it is determined that there are no life forms on that planet, and that determination may take hundreds of years at the rate we're going
Skepticus_Rex
1.5 / 5 (17) Jan 04, 2012
RitchieGuy,

Just because FrankHerbert himself has oodles of sockpuppets does not mean that all of the examples offered above are Omatumr. Based on prior years' experiences with Parsec, I am reasonably sure that he is not Omatumr.

FrankHerbert's former moniker, however, used to create dummy user names using initial and final underscores when he went by MikeyK. (Watch him deny it). :)
Sanescience
1.3 / 5 (32) Jan 04, 2012
By the time we have the ability to terraform Mars, we probably wont need to.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
I deleted my former name, Pirouette because I never liked it. I deleted that name the same day that I registered the one I have now. This is the only name I have now, and anybody says I have more than one is a damned liar.

Mars rules
Convenient. No way to prove you're not a liar, which you've already proven you are. And a very bad one might I add.

These are the kinds of comments richieguy/NamVet666/pirouette et al likes to post:

"I spent 2 years in VietNam killing gooks. . .one more a$$hole won't make any difference. LOL....maybe you need to read further up. . .there's plenty of provocation for a good killing. I think I would be doing Physorg a favor LOL"

"Ghost is obviously into picking up gay men in gay bars. . .he/she knows all about ballerinas and their moves. He/she is also an interior decorator. He/she wants to redecorate FrankHerbert's hovel and then have sex together."

-engage with this freak at your own risk-
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Jan 04, 2012
I deleted my former name, Pirouette because I never liked it.
It's still there however for all the world to see:
http://www.physor...activity

-Funny that. Usually when accounts get deleted it is obvious when you access them. You stinking liar.
Larkus
4.3 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2012
Jeddy Mctedder wrote:
how about we start with terraforming earth before we worry about mars.

But we already are in the process of 'terraforming' Earth (releasing lots of CO2 from fossil sources into the atmosphere).
SteveL
5 / 5 (8) Jan 04, 2012
The amount of money spent on Negroids and entertainment sickens me. We would already be on Mars by now if people didn't focus on stupid shit. Entertainment is a distraction from death. It is what keeps most people sane, sadly.
Your existance wastes the air that a real human could be using - please stop.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 04, 2012
I deleted my former name, Pirouette because I never liked it.
It's still there however for all the world to see:
http://www.physor...activity

GhostofA$$hole says:
-Funny that. Usually when accounts get deleted it is obvious when you access them. You stinking liar.


I clicked on the DELETE button and I can no longer access Pirouette to post anymore. Can't even see FrankHerbert's 49 PMs to Pirouette, nor the 12 PMs from 6 of his sockpuppets, none of which I've bothered to read.
I have no idea why the profile can still be seen, but that's up to Physorg admin. Doesn't matter to me if the name Pirouette stays forever. I never liked the name and glad to be rid of it.
I've been reading Ghost's responses to Vendicartoon's posts and Ghost comes off sounding almost like an American Conservative like me. And yet, he buys into FrankHerbert's lies and innuendoes even though FrankHerbertfart is obviously a U.S. hater and a Liberal/Socialist like Vendi. Mars
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
I clicked on the DELETE button and I can no longer access Pirouette to post anymore.
But... you said you DELETED it didnt you? Why would you be trying to post from it if you had DELETED it you stinking liar?? My god youre an imbecile.
Can't even see FrankHerbert's 49 PMs to Pirouette, nor the 12 PMs from 6 of his sockpuppets, none of which I've bothered to read.
Thats ok Im sure frank will PM you a copy. Why dont you ask?
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (26) Jan 04, 2012
I assume Ghost will continue his tirades in his protection of FrankHerbertfart and his sockpuppets, and I assume any NEW members of Physorg will also have to undergo his false accusations of sockpuppetry. That should give Physorg a black eye within the scientific community and a cause of amusement for all genuine researchers and scientists. I have already informed faculty of several different Universities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, New York, Massachusetts and Arizona. My cousins and 3 of my brothers are affiliated with many of the faculty in all of these Universities and they will be monitoring these threads, if they haven't already done so.
And, BTW, Noumenon has been forwarding the PMs sent to him by FrankHerbertfart to me. We will be sharing PMs with each other and I will post them in the threads. I don't know if Nou will also do that, but that's up to him.

Terraforming Mars without confirming absence of intelligent life there could be tantamount to murder.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
I clicked on the DELETE button and I can no longer access Pirouette to post anymore.
But... you said you DELETED it didnt you? Why would you be trying to post from it if you had DELETED it you stinking liar?? My god youre an imbecile.
Can't even see FrankHerbert's 49 PMs to Pirouette, nor the 12 PMs from 6 of his sockpuppets, none of which I've bothered to read.
Thats ok Im sure frank will PM you a copy. Why dont you ask?


I saw that Pirouette hadn't been erased from the threads, so I decided to check as to why it was still there. I also, on the Main page, submitted my email address and password, but I was not allowed access to it. The message was that I had deleted it already and access was denied.
So sue me. What else am I supposed to do about it? Call 911? LOL
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
I clicked on the DELETE button and I can no longer access Pirouette to post anymore.
But... you said you DELETED it didnt you? Why would you be trying to post from it if you had DELETED it you stinking liar?? My god youre an imbecile.
Can't even see FrankHerbert's 49 PMs to Pirouette, nor the 12 PMs from 6 of his sockpuppets, none of which I've bothered to read.
Thats ok Im sure frank will PM you a copy. Why dont you ask?


I saw that Pirouette hadn't been erased from the threads, so I decided to check as to why it was still there. I also, on the Main page, submitted my email address and password to try signing in, but I was not allowed access to it. The message was that I had deleted it already and access was denied.
So sue me. What else am I supposed to do about it? Call 911? LOL

ooops. . .double comment. . . .sorry about that :(
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.4 / 5 (13) Jan 04, 2012
I have already informed faculty of several different Universities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, New York, Massachusetts and Arizona. My cousins and 3 of my brothers are affiliated with many of the faculty in all of these Universities and they will be monitoring these threads
Oh shit. You mean theyre all going to see what a lying dimwit you are? Aw they probably already know that. And physorg seems to tolerate people like you here, who post nonsense about glass-headed aliens and lost wax metalcasting and endless flaming on your offtime. Except they did ban you once under the username Pirouette.

"But... you said you DELETED it didnt you? Why would you be trying to post from it if you had DELETED it you stinking liar?? My god youre an imbecile."

-On display for the faculty of several different Universities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, New York, Massachusetts and Arizona, as well as your cousins and 3 of your brothers to see.

-Including your bigotry and threats of violence.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
LOL. . . .you are guilty of verbal violence and hide behind your anonymity so that you and your butt buddy, FrankHerbertfart can continue your reign of terror over Pnysorg members. If you did these things to anybody offline, you would have landed in a hospital bed or have bled to death already. Just try it. . . .spew your bull$hit on some guy who isn't your alleged "friend" or your relative. At the very least, your eyes would be blackened for you and maybe crippled for life.
On second thought, you might be crippled already and Physorg IS your life. It would not be so surprising. So keep believing what you believe. It does not affect me in the least. :)
Pino
1.1 / 5 (9) Jan 04, 2012
but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

as far as I know, I am not omatumr (whatever is an omatumr)and I wouldn't like to.

You cannot terraform Venus*, it's just too damn hot, period.
It will not be done in a short time. but terraforming is a long term program (1000-5000 years). Cooling is fast, if you shield nearly all the solar flux with few millimeters of dust in L1 (lagrangian L1, nearly stationary point between Venus and the Sun). The quantity of dust required is equivalent to a body with a diameter of 12 km. 100 times less than the diameter of the body required to carbonate the CO2 of the atmosphere.

CO2 liquid or gas must be reacted to form solid carbonate. Carbonates will form a layer with a mean depth of 250 meters on the whole surface of the planet. Then add water and algae.
The day is too long, rings around Venus or clouds in L4 and L5 can give light during the night. The absence of magnetic field is an issue. Suggestions?
Xbw
3 / 5 (18) Jan 04, 2012
I think it is a mathematical impossibility for a physorg discussion not to devolve into flame wars after 30 posts. I'm sure there's a study out there to support my theory.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
It happens in other science websites where posting comments is available. I regret my part in even responding to the idiotic and obsessive statements from those in previous posts in this and other threads. It seems impossible to convince these people of the truth and they will continue their false accusations no matter what is said by me. So I will IGNORE the louts unless their accusations become too egregious, and I will then have to have the Physorg admin deal with the nonsense for me.
Isaacsname
5 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2012
Press button ---> 0 <---- receive pudding
_
'* You must be at least this tall to obtain pudding
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TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Jan 04, 2012
you would have landed in a hospital bed or have bled to death already. Just try it. . . .spew your bull$hit on some guy who isn't your alleged "friend" or your relative. At the very least, your eyes would be blackened for you and maybe crippled for life.
More threats little Pudel? The faculty members at those different Universities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, New York, Massachusetts and Arizona, as well as your cousins and 3 of your brothers, arent going to like reading this.
It happens in other science websites where posting comments is available
Sounds like youve had this problem elsewhere when you insisted on spewing your bull$hit. Why am I not surprised?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Jan 04, 2012
It would not be so surprising. So keep believing what you believe. It does not affect me in the least. :)
-And keep posting outrageous lies and nonsense and threats from the anonymous comfort of your sweaty couch and you will continue to be outed :)
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 04, 2012
you would have landed in a hospital bed or have bled to death already. Just try it. . . .spew your bull$hit on some guy who isn't your alleged "friend" or your relative. At the very least, your eyes would be blackened for you and maybe crippled for life.
More threats little Pudel? The guys at those different Universities in Florida, Georgia, Alabama, New York, Massachusetts and Arizona, as well as your cousins and 3 of your brothers, arent going to like reading this.
It happens in other science websites where posting comments is available
Sounds like youve had this problem elsewhere when you insisted on spewing your bull$hit. Why am I not surprised?


I see Ghost is STILL spewing his/her bull$hit for all to see. I do believe now that Ghost is a schizophrenic and possibly manic-depressive from his continuous and repetitious mantra, an ongoing tirade because he has not convinced others of his lies. He thinks everyone in threads are too stupid to read.
Shabs42
4.9 / 5 (12) Jan 04, 2012
He thinks everyone in threads are too stupid to read.


I can read well enough to see you say this:

So I will IGNORE the louts unless their accusations become too egregious, and I will then have to have the Physorg admin deal with the nonsense for me.


Then post again two hours later. This site would be improved immensely if you (two or three or four people (I don't know or care how many of you are unique)) would just ignore each other. It's easy for me to skip past 2-3 worthless posts, much tougher to make it through 30-40 of your pointless flaming of each other to read the actual worthwhile comments.

Quick question: do either/any of you think you will actually get the others to stop posting even if you get a name banned? Then why continue annoying all of us with your little pissing contest on every other thread? Even if you win, you still lose.

Every internet site has some bad comments, Physorg has an unusually high rate of good ones. Let's keep it that way.
Larkus
4.4 / 5 (7) Jan 05, 2012
Shabs42 wrote:
"Every internet site has some bad comments, Physorg has an unusually high rate of good ones. Let's keep it that way."

That's the point of trolling. Trolls try to lower the ratio of good to bad posts by disrupting a community, for example by instigating flame wars. If quality posters are annoyed by the flame war they may stop posting - which in turn lowers that ratio even further.

But what can you do? Does ignoring the trolls actually work? Maybe trolls that are doing it *just* for the lulz would get bored and leave, but does that tactic work against trolls with an agenda?
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (19) Jan 05, 2012
@Shabs42
@Larkus

I fully agree with both of you. It is not my wish to have to fight off the insane advances of TheGhostofOtto1923 and FrankHerbert and his sockpuppets. I came to Physorg with the purpose of learning science from the articles and other members and, instead, became victim to FrankHerbert's lies of receiving a PM from me with the N word in it. Since I have NEVER sent him PMs and I don't believe in using such a hateful word, I knew that FH had an agenda of driving members away by labeling them as racist. That is what he does to get attention and adoration.
I understand how you feel about this, and believe me, I will NOT respond to these people without provocation. Thanks for your understanding.
Larkus
Jan 05, 2012
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
RitchieGuy
1.4 / 5 (22) Jan 05, 2012
RitchieGuy,

Just because FrankHerbert himself has oodles of sockpuppets does not mean that all of the examples offered above are Omatumr. Based on prior years' experiences with Parsec, I am reasonably sure that he is not Omatumr.

FrankHerbert's former moniker, however, used to create dummy user names using initial and final underscores when he went by MikeyK. (Watch him deny it). :)


@Skepticus_Rex. . . .I believe you are right.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (45) Jan 05, 2012
I came to Physorg with the purpose of learning science from the articles and other members
No, you came here to preach nonsense about glass-headed martians by flooding thread after thread, and to make up your own science about metallurgy and candlemaking and etc. Be honest now (ha!) You have shown no tendency to learn anything, or to research before you post nonsense.
and I don't believe in using such a hateful word
Im sure thats a lie. We've seen you disparage homosexuals and if Im not mistaken, jews. And you ARE full of bile (and other stuff):
you would have landed in a hospital bed or have bled to death already. Just try it. . . .spew your bull$hit on some guy who isn't your alleged "friend" or your relative. At the very least, your eyes would be blackened for you and maybe crippled for life.
Arent you?
Xbw
2.8 / 5 (21) Jan 06, 2012
There are more trolls around here than my little sister's creepy troll collection. And that's a lot of trolls.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (18) Jan 06, 2012
There are more trolls around here than my little sister's creepy troll collection. And that's a lot of trolls.
Dude, why did you put a pic of you choking a dog on your profile page? Do I get to report you for animal abuse? Do I?
Xbw
2.6 / 5 (19) Jan 06, 2012
Haha that's my mini dachshund and he wasn't choking. He was in fact yawning and I got the picture at just the right time. It looks like he is high.
RitchieGuy
1.4 / 5 (21) Jan 06, 2012
Haha that's my mini dachshund and he wasn't choking. He was in fact yawning and I got the picture at just the right time. It looks like he is high.


Xbw. . .that's a cute little pup you have. I prefer German Shepherds, also cute when they're pups
:)
Xbw
1.8 / 5 (21) Jan 06, 2012
Notice Ritchie that even posts as innocent as the last 2 we posted are voted down? How sad is that?
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (49) Jan 06, 2012
Notice Ritchie that even posts as innocent as the last 2 we posted are voted down? How sad is that?


Xbw. . . .that voting down can be attributable to FrankHerbert and/or his many sockpuppets. He loves to do that to those he doesn't like, especially if they are saying the truth that he doesn't like, or if they are defending themselves or others against lies being told by FrankHerbert$hit or TheGhostofOtto1923 aka TinkerBell. It is also possible that TheGhost has some sockpuppets of his own, I wouldn't be surprised, and Ghost probably KNOWS all about FrankHerbert$hit's sockpuppets and pretends he doesn't. FrankHerbert has already been outed as a race baiter, a LIAR, and a sockpuppet master. Pay no attention to them if they are offensive, which is most of the time.
Callippo
1.2 / 5 (38) Jan 06, 2012
Why not to start with terraforming of Earth? If nothing else, then to stop with life environment pollution. I presume it will be still cheaper and faster than the terraformation of Mars and it could save many endangered species, which are missing at Mars anyway.
RitchieGuy
1.3 / 5 (20) Jan 06, 2012
Callippo. . . .terraforming of Earth has been an ongoing process since the first shovel was made. Along with modern day earthmovers, it is a necessary method for housing developments, tunnels, etc. But you knew all that already. If you ask me, I don't think terraforming Mars on its surface would be worthwhile because of the solar and cosmic radiation coming in. The only thing that might stop that radiation is to build cities underneath something similar to an overturned bowl-shaped biosphere on the surface. Otherwise, below ground MIGHT offer protection.
RitchieGuy
1.5 / 5 (21) Jan 06, 2012
Removal of polluting materials from the air, water and soil on Earth by corporations is a good start, but in the long run, the average citizen of each country has to help out by limiting their own pollution by recycling, usage of less fossil fuels, etc. Too many people just don't care and no matter how many rules and regulations and taxes are in effect, it"s STILL up to the individuals who pollute to stop or minimize their mess.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Jan 06, 2012
FrankHerbert has already been outed as a race baiter, a LIAR, and a sockpuppet master. Pay no attention to them if they are offensive, which is most of the time.
So have you little ballerina. And who knows? Maybe that's a picture of YOUR arm choking that cute little doggie. Xbw seemed to warm up to you and your predicament rather a little too quickly didn't he?
Along with modern day earthmovers, it is a necessary method for housing developments, tunnels, etc. But you knew all that already. If you ask me
Perhaps you want to look up the proper def of terraforming before you try to misuse the term. And no, nobody asked you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (15) Jan 06, 2012
Removal of polluting materials from the air, water and soil on Earth by corporations is a good start, but in the long run, the average citizen of each country has to help out by limiting their own pollution by recycling, usage of less fossil fuels, etc. Too many people just don't care and no matter how many rules and regulations and taxes are in effect, it"s STILL up to the individuals who pollute to stop or minimize their mess.
[Standard brainless quote from some tv commercial, in order to say SOMETHING, anything...] 'Give a hoot, don't pollute.'
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (15) Jan 06, 2012
Just curious - how would an overturned, bowl-shaped thing the size of a city be the preferable structure for stopping radiation? Does it have something to do with the bowl shape itself or is this something you happened to see in a comic book and just assumed that's what it was for? Are you perhaps intent on stopping relativistic cheerios?
Xbw
2.7 / 5 (19) Jan 06, 2012
Just curious - how would an overturned, bowl-shaped thing the size of a city be the preferable structure for stopping radiation? Does it have something to do with the bowl shape itself or is this something you happened to see in a comic book and just assumed that's what it was for? Are you perhaps intent on stopping relativistic cheerios?

He is referring to a geodesic dome and yes I agree that it is possible to stop the sun's radiation with such structures but the bigger question of "how do we terraform the planet" will take multiple solutions. Not the least of which is to establish a stronger planetary magnetic shield which at our current level of technology is nowhere near possible.
antialias_physorg
3.8 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2012
He is referring to a geodesic dome and yes I agree that it is possible to stop the sun's radiation with such structures

The far simpler solution is to go underground. No need for a magnetic field or a radiation stopping dome. Also no danger of meteorite impacts (which is greater in a low density atmosphere and something that would be quite catastrophic if we were to rely on a dome to keep radiation out and breathable air (at higher than outside pressure) in.

The biggest advantage of all is: we can skip all the terraforming completely.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (31) Jan 06, 2012
@Xbw. . . .thank you, I just couldn't remember the name of it. I had thought of the geodesic dome in combination with Biosphere 2, which would afford good protection from radiation, as well as living quarters and an Earth-like ecosystem.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (37) Jan 06, 2012
I see that TheGhostof $hitface is STILL calling me little ballerina.

LOL. . .Ghost STILL believes RitchieGuy is a woman for some strange reason. Apparently he/she has examined RitchieGuy's internet crotch to search for a virtual vagina, even if it's only his wish to find one.
Maybe his mama beat him once too often and, later in life, he feels that everyone he hates just HAS to be female. How sad to see him in his manic-depressive state and his descent into such obsessive behavior at the behest and protection of his butt buddy, FrankHerbert$hit.
I find it amusing that Ghostof$hithead pretends to care about the quality of Physorg, but does not notice all of the inane and rambling posts that others submit in this and other threads. Could Ghost be of a "one-track mind" in his/her obsession and chasing around of the former name of Pirouette?
Is TheGhostofOtto1923, in reality, TINKERBELL? YES, I BELIEVE HE IS.
hcl
1.1 / 5 (35) Jan 07, 2012
I'm interested only if Mars can be made (1) fit for human habitation; and (2) at economic cost. Doubt it for reasons already stated, but interesting question nonetheless.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (14) Jan 07, 2012
He is referring to a geodesic dome and yes I agree that it is possible to stop the sun's radiation with such structures
I see the ballerina is talking to herself? That's creepy. So dear, just how would this GEODESIC dome stop hard radiation whereas some other structure would not? Does it have something to do with the SHAPE of this structure? Does it have something to do with the technical-sounding name that, by your use of it, conveys some special powers for shielding which another less technical-sounding structure would not?

Does the use of such terms like 'geodesic' or 'lost wax' really make people think you know what you are talking about, or is this only your perception of the effects of such droppings?

What do YOU think?
GuyRitchie
3.3 / 5 (12) Jan 07, 2012
NO NO NO. . . .they wouldn't be geodesic domes dummy! The pyramids at Giza were actually vacuum forming molds for the semi-transparent silicon-based aliens on mars.

They'd fly all the way over here, vacuum form some pyramids and fly them back to Mars, you big bully $hitheadfartface.
RitchieGuy
1.2 / 5 (34) Jan 07, 2012
I see that TheGhostof $hitface is STILL calling me little ballerina.

LOL. . .Ghost STILL believes RitchieGuy is a woman for some strange reason. Apparently he/she has examined RitchieGuy's internet crotch to search for a virtual vagina, even if it's only his wish to find one.
Maybe his mama beat him once too often and, later in life, he feels that everyone he hates just HAS to be female. How sad to see him in his manic-depressive state and his descent into such obsessive behavior at the behest and protection of his butt buddy, FrankHerbert$hit.
I find it amusing that Ghostof$hithead pretends to care about the quality of Physorg, but does not notice all of the inane and rambling posts that others submit in this and other threads. Could Ghost be of a "one-track mind" in his/her obsession and chasing around of the former name of Pirouette?
Is TheGhostofOtto1923, in reality, TINKERBELL? YES, I BELIEVE HE IS.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (39) Jan 07, 2012
@ritchieguy

So you admit you are xbw? Tsk tsk tsk.

Pirouette began as a woman who invented a bf only to intimidate people who were giving her a hard time for flooding and posting nonsense. I suspect her name is jeannie? from her website.

The only issue with you being a woman is to show how you make up outlandish stories about phoney characters. This would have to include your story about seeing a ufo, a shallow attempt to add some credence to your website perhaps? Or just the pathological nature of compulsion. Who knows?

I think you are nothing BUT phony and will continue to expose you. Which as you can see is not very hard at all.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (11) Jan 07, 2012
They'd fly all the way over here, vacuum form some pyramids and fly them back to Mars, you big bully $hitheadfartface.
Well like I've always said glassy headed Martians, and the people who expect us to believe in them, SUCK big time don't they?

Pirouette seems to be the one having a problem with femaleness - instead of standing up for herself she has to invent tuffguy bfs and sockpuppets to do it for her. So sad.
Foolish1
5 / 5 (7) Jan 07, 2012
It would be a waste of time and money to try to terraform mars since Mars has no magnetic field. Without a protective shield the planet will be under bombardment from galactic radiation. It will remain as sterile planet no matter how much money you throw at it.


This is a common misconception. A substantial atmosphere is what moderates harmful radiation. The earths atmosphere provides shielding equiv of about 30 feet of water.

Establishing a magnetic field will be critical to keeping solar winds from stripping away the atmosphere and allow an ozone layer to form.

People have already looked into the possibility of forming an artificial magnetic field on mars..as planet scale projects go it is quite reasonable. You would need a dozen or so superconducting rings around the planet at evenly spaced latitudes with on order of GW power source for each ring.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (13) Jan 07, 2012
People have already looked into the possibility of forming an artificial magnetic field
Why not just remelt and/or stir up the core?

"...the Earth's eventual destruction by the mutual annihilation of a piece of neutronium and a piece of antineutronium dropped into Earth's core."
http://en.wikiped...e_of_God

-In reality I suppose the decision to terraform the planet will be made after people have been living there for a very long time and it will be made by them, not earthers.
Burnerjack
5 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2012
The moderators, if there are any, really need to take a look at this entire thread and act accordingly. This has really devolved into something not worthy of this forum. Childish and Selfabsorbed doesn't even do it justice.
RitchieGuy
1.2 / 5 (31) Jan 07, 2012
Just curious - how would an overturned, bowl-shaped thing the size of a city be the preferable structure for stopping radiation? Does it have something to do with the bowl shape itself or is this something you happened to see in a comic book and just assumed that's what it was for? Are you perhaps intent on stopping relativistic cheerios?

He is referring to a geodesic dome and yes I agree that it is possible to stop the sun's radiation with such structures but the bigger question of "how do we terraform the planet" will take multiple solutions. Not the least of which is to establish a stronger planetary magnetic shield which at our current level of technology is nowhere near possible.


@Xbw. . . .my wife, while she lived, used to tell me that a geodesic dome painted white would probably help to bounce radiation back into space from all of its surfaces. I thought it was a good idea for Mars. The surface could be made of something stronger than Plexiglass to protect it.
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2012
dome painted white would probably help to bounce radiation back

I think you need to differentiate radiation energies (and types) here. All a white dome would do is bounce back infrared radiation (which is what we experience as heat and isn't harmful to humans). With Mars being so far away from the sun you actually do not want to bounce back infrared. You'd want a pitchblack dome (if you want a dome at all).

The dangerous radiation is alphas (helium nuclei), betas (electrons) and gamma rays (high energy photons like X-rays). These types of radiation have enough energy to damage DNA directly.

Alphas aren't a problem (the atmosphere shileds from them effectively and to a large extent the betas). Gammas are hard to shield from. Notice the meters of concrete around nuclear reactors. That's what it would take to get good (though nowhere near perfect) shielding from harmful radiation on Mars. I don't think we can build city sized domes like that (or would want to)
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (28) Jan 07, 2012
@antialias. . . .granted that gamma rays (and others) are far more dangerous to DNA, then the Mars occupiers would have to wear special clothing to counteract the effects of the radiation. Yes, they could live underground also. . .for a time. But the plants, (fruits, vegetables) would probably not survive and grow underground and would need a protected biosphere that would afford them the sunlight required for growth.
The fact that the Mars occupiers will have to travel to Mars from Earth and possibly have their DNA damaged anyway on the trip will require a ship that can shield them from the radiation. If such a shield can be developed for a ship, then perhaps the materials can also be used for a geodesic dome/biosphere for their living quarters, etc. There is no such technology as yet, so the question is moot.
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2012
then the Mars occupiers would have to wear special clothing to counteract the effects of the radiation.

I don't know you'd want to (or even could) walk around with several meters of concrete strapped to you - even in the 0.37g Mars has. There is no such thing as a magical anti-radiation suit. Radiation absorption or reflection is a matter of cross section (likelyhood of interaction of a ray of particular energy with a material). This is why we use lead to shield from rays because it has a high cross section (or concrete, with lower cross section but vastly cheaper).
Whatever: Shielding is heavy. Which is a problem for having shielded craft, since you need to get that stuff into space.

But the plants, (fruits, vegetables) would probably not survive and grow underground

Light can be created artificially. There is this great invention called the 'light bulb' - ever heard of that? Also greenhouses aren't exactly rocket science.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (19) Jan 07, 2012
If the radiation shield for a spaceship cannot be manufactured and tested, then there is no way to get to Mars without the Mars occupiers possibly getting radiation sickness. They may be dead upon arrival at the planet. The same with anti-radiation clothing. IF such a shield were invented, I could see the shield being carried up to the ISS, if an ISS or something similar is still there that far in the future, and then the ship can dock and be fitted with the shield. That is the only way that Mars occupiers can SAFELY get to Mars. Otherwise, future generations will be stuck on planet Earth with no safe way to get off.
Fruits and vegetables grown underground by the light of a lightbulb will not be very appetizing, I assure you. Greenhouse tomatoes grown in Winter in Florida are not appetizing either. Sunlight is required for a good taste in all vegetables and fruit. Even with rows and rows of lights, there is nothing like the photons from the Sun for good tasting produce.
antialias_physorg
4.5 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2012
A trip out to Mars with current tech increases the likelyhood for cancer substantially (also the likelyhood of becoming sterile. This is why prospective astronauts for the first Mars mission will likely be in their late fourties or older - danger from cancer lessens with age as cell divisions slow down. And those astronauts will likely have already fathered/born all the children they likely will have)

IF such a shield were invented

Physics says: no.
Even clever inventions have to respect basic physics.

Otherwise, future generations will be stuck on planet Earth with no safe way to get off.

Certainly. mars will not be an escape route for overpopuulation. get some people there. Hope that they're still in breeding shape (or take some heavily shielded sperm samples) and start a colony from scratch.

Fruits and vegetables grown underground by the light of a lightbulb will not be very appetizing,

Who cares? Taste is not important.
Skepticus_Rex
1.3 / 5 (16) Jan 07, 2012
Fruits and vegetables grown underground by the light of a lightbulb will not be very appetizing, I assure you. Greenhouse tomatoes grown in Winter in Florida are not appetizing either. Sunlight is required for a good taste in all vegetables and fruit.


Using full-spectrum lighting (somewhat expensive), mineral supplementation of the soil with the preferred minerals for the plants in question, and doubling the ambient CO2 levels in the greenhouse make up for that.

The main problem to deal with are the peroxides and perchlorates in the martian soils. These substances can inhibit some growth but also are toxic to humans. How to remove and deal with those with current technology? Until such is developed we might have to import soils from Earth. This proposition would get very expensive.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (29) Jan 08, 2012
@S.Rex. . . .you are correct. However, the technology of the FUTURE just might be sufficient to help colonize Mars providing that a way can be found to inhibit or cancel out the effects of the cosmic and solar radiation on the human body and in plant life. As antialias said, the Physics says no to shields around a spacecraft carrying occupiers to Mars, that will save their DNA from becoming damaged by said radiation. If that truly is the case even for the future, then the only alternative is not to send humans there, but artificial intelligence in their stead. Robots that may resemble humans (2 legs, 2 arms) a machine that can terraform Mars in such a way as to prepare that planet for the future arrival of humans after a way has been found to shield the first occupiers of Mars from the harmful rays. Perhaps a way could even be found in the not too distant future to create a BIONIC man whose mechanical body can resist the damaging rays.
Johannes_H_Larsen
3.8 / 5 (4) Jan 08, 2012
In short: hell yes, if we can do it economically.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (30) Jan 08, 2012
Such a part human/mostly machine might not be totally impervious to radiation, but a good deal of it will be able to withstand any ill effects that would kill a human.
I think the perchlorates were found mainly in the northern latitude of Mars by the Phoenix Mars Lander. I don't know if perchlorates have been found elsewhere on Mars. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The CO2 could be piped into the greenhouse to feed the plants along with other necessary nutrients. Over a period of years, a hybridized form of fruits and vegetables might be grown that may be able to evolve enough so that the radiation is actually integrated into the plants' growing process as a necessary nutrient. If that happened, it may or may not be toxic to humans, but the robots could test them for toxicity.
jsdarkdestruction
1.8 / 5 (5) Jan 08, 2012
I don't know if Returners is Pirouette, but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

I'm assuming omatumr was banned seeing as he hasn't posted since 12/30/11. I would appreciate some public thanks for that people.

Pino, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:56 am
omatumr, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:57 am
Parsec, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

Who knows how many usernames omatumr has saved up?

http://www.physor...946.html
there, proof oliver is not parsec. we been trying to tell you that for a while now.
Osiris1
2 / 5 (8) Jan 08, 2012
First colonies on Mars may be above ground, but soon they will want to move underground.....for a very long time. Launch sites for transports will have to be on the surface though. Any Martian biome will make itself quite visible as soon as any terraforming takes hold. Terraforming in this case will probably just be turning back the clock on Mars, recreating conditions extant there in the remote past. For all we know, life there will prove to be similar to our own DNA in its building block bases, and will spring up as dormant seeds suddenly germinate and green arid places after a rain.
signoftimes
1 / 5 (3) Jan 08, 2012
I don't know if Returners is Pirouette, but I'm pretty certain Pino is omatumr.

I'm assuming omatumr was banned seeing as he hasn't posted since 12/30/11. I would appreciate some public thanks for that people.

Pino, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:56 am
omatumr, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:57 am
Parsec, Member since: September 24, 2007, 11:58 am

Who knows how many usernames omatumr has saved up?


Ocar
signoftimes
1 / 5 (3) Jan 08, 2012
Oops, pardon me. His name is Orac, not Ocar. Omatumr has been using Orac frequently to vote down anyone who did not agree with him.
The Singularity
1.3 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
Human kind needs to take responsibility for its actions here on planet earth first, (e.g. smog cities) before spreading to other planets & ruining those. In the future the rich capable nations will fight over mars & any other ball of rock that we could live on. Whilst the poor backwards nations will be left to fight over the polluted cesspit we leave behind.
(actually that would for quite a good film)

& whilst a little harsh, i concur. STOP FEEdING AFRICA.
They have devolved so much they face inevitable extinction. This is natures way, not anybody's doing. Why should we feel bad?
Sinister1811
2.7 / 5 (19) Jan 08, 2012
Oops, pardon me. His name is Orac, not Ocar. Omatumr has been using Orac frequently to vote down anyone who did not agree with him.


Somehow, I don't think orac is Omatumr.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
I don't know you'd want to (or even could) walk around with several meters of concrete strapped to you
Hahaaaaa! I applaud your restraint. Hey maybe they would only have to wear white all the time - ahaahaaaaaaa!! This person can't be for real. Somebody is scamming us.
If the radiation shield for a spaceship cannot be manufactured and tested, then there is no way to get to Mars without the Mars occupiers possibly getting radiation sickness. They may be dead upon arrival at the planet.
Wha - Ahahaahaaaaaa!
Robots that may resemble humans (2 legs, 2 arms) a machine that can terraform Mars in such a way as to prepare that planet for the future arrival of humans
Why yes with many shovels to dig many holes and plant many trees very quickly before they all die. Sounds plausible (inane).

We are being SCAMMED. Nobody is this stupid except ON PURPOSE.
FrankHerbert
2.3 / 5 (79) Jan 08, 2012
Lol Otto. It's a manifestation of Poe's law. You can't tell an idiot from someone pretending to be an idiot over the internet.

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is utterly impossible to parody a Creationist in such a way that someone won't mistake it for the genuine article.

--Nathan Poe

That said, Pirouette is either a step above drooling or Andy Kaufman come out of retirement.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (42) Jan 08, 2012
The CO2 could be piped into the greenhouse to feed the plants along with other necessary nutrients. Over a period of years, a hybridized form of fruits and vegetables might be grown that may be able to evolve enough so that the radiation is actually integrated into the plants' growing process as a necessary nutrient. If that happened, it may or may not be toxic to humans, but the robots could test them for toxicity.
You see what I'm saying? This paragraph gives you the impression that someone is intentionally trying to be stupid.

This person knows about perchlorates (at least enough to drop the word) but is THIS ignorant of radiation?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
Lol Otto. It's a manifestation of Poe's law. You can't tell an idiot from someone pretending to be an idiot over the internet.
Depends on how good they are at it. When someone says 'white paint can reflect radiation' with a straight face, well maybe they've never had an X-ray?

When somebody shows us pictures of 800 foot tall transparent aliens or suggests that wax molds can be used to cast 200 lb metal sickles, do we not begin to smell fish??

@richieguy
So sorry about your dead wife. And so soon after they legalized same sex marriages.
FrankHerbert
2.4 / 5 (78) Jan 08, 2012
Don't forget! She was "mulatto" so the ballerina isn't racist! Bullet proof armor there. lol
RitchieGuy
3.4 / 5 (47) Jan 08, 2012
I believe that the $hithead GhostofOtto1923 is a VERY CONFUSED LUNATIC. He/she, true to his love affair with FrankHerbert aka The HEAD TROLL of Physorg, is confusing MY name, RitchieGuy with FrankHerbertfart's sockpuppet, GuyRitchie.
Ghost appears to be clueless as to the GLARING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 2 NAMES:

RITCHIEGUY
GUYRITCHIE = sockpuppet of FrankHerbert$hit

This PROVES that Ghost is NOT AS SMART as he makes himself out to be. Ghost cannot bring himself to acknowledge that FrankHerbert$hit has inverted MY user name, RitchieGuy so that FH can STILL keep making a fool out of TheGhostofOtto1923. OR maybe Ghost knows about it because he/she and FH are lovers offline.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (16) Jan 08, 2012
It is possible that TheGhostofOtto1923 and FrankHerbert are a married couple, just like Elton John and David Furnish. That may be why Ghost mentioned "legalized same sex marriages".
Love is strange. . . .la la la la.
LOL
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (11) Jan 08, 2012
Launch sites for transports will have to be on the surface though.

What transports? What could be so valuable that it would justify the expense of interplanetary transport?
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (31) Jan 08, 2012
Osiris1 says:
First colonies on Mars may be above ground, but soon they will want to move underground.....for a very long time. Launch sites for transports will have to be on the surface though. Any Martian biome will make itself quite visible as soon as any terraforming takes hold. Terraforming in this case will probably just be turning back the clock on Mars, recreating conditions extant there in the remote past. For all we know, life there will prove to be similar to our own DNA in its building block bases, and will spring up as dormant seeds suddenly germinate and green arid places after a rain.


@Osiris1. . .you may be right about any Martian biome. If they are on Mars, they will be found. Robotics will take the place of humans in preparing the Martian environment for the arrival of humans IF the problem of a radiation shield is ever resolved in the future. Autonomous AI robots will greatly assist the preparations.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (32) Jan 08, 2012
@antialias. . .I believe that Osiris1 is right in his estimation that there will be launch sites for transports on the surface. Surely you don't think that once humans are sent up to Mars that there will be no others going there also? There will be a need for doctors and surgeons, engineers, even accountants. . .all kinds of professions needed. Mars can be a jumping off point for humans far into the future to go to other star systems.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (13) Jan 08, 2012
Wait wait! I am seeing a grand connection here. As we know (some of us), paraffin (wax) is used to shield against fast neutrons. Could this be where the 'lost wax' that pirouette was referring to, went?

HAWHAWHAWHAWHAAAAAA!!!

'Urethra I have found it!' -kelly bundy. She too was Dense by Design.
RITCHIEGUY
GUYRITCHIE = sockpuppet of FrankHerbert$hit
Why - that BASTARD!! Why dont you stupid him to death? hahaha
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (13) Jan 08, 2012
@Osiris1. . .you may be right about any Martian biome. If they are on Mars, they will be found. Robotics will take the place of humans in preparing the Martian environment for the arrival of humans IF the problem of a radiation shield is ever resolved in the future. Autonomous AI robots will greatly assist the preparations.
But I thought that, through careful analysis, all which was needed to be done or did was to create armies of bionoidal ditchdiggers and paint them white?

Urethra I do believe I have your prototype. As you can perceptuize, he is indeed dressed in white per spec.
http://www.youtub...9RvKlUfg

-As you can see this truly a mooncity biopark because of the highness of which he has jumpted. The interior of the radodome is painted blue for hominess.
antialias_physorg
4.3 / 5 (11) Jan 08, 2012
Surely you don't think that once humans are sent up to Mars that there will be no others going there also?

Much cheaper to breed and educate them there. Also means that they will be adapted to the gravity level from childhood.

Sending large numbers of people to other planets is just a pipe dream until we figure out how to do that as easily/cheaply as the way we can get from one city to the next here on earth. The real universe isn't anything like in Hollywood movies. Space (even interplanetary) is BIG, dangerous, and expensive to get around in.

Mars can be a jumping off point for humans

Humanity will jump off of Mars (or the Moon, or Earth). Individual humans? Not so much.
We'll probably not even send biologicals on any trip even remotely interstellar.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
Oops, pardon me. His name is Orac, not Ocar. Omatumr has been using Orac frequently to vote down anyone who did not agree with him.


Sinister1811 says:
Somehow, I don't think orac is Omatumr.


@Sinister. . . .I don't think Oliver (Omatumr) is the type to vote people down out of spite like FrankHerbert and his sockpuppets do. I also don't believe that Oliver has been banned from Physorg. He might be ill or back in court or away on vacation. I also wonder if his children were telling lies about Oliver sodomizing and raping them. He might have cut them off from their inheritance for turning out bad. I haven't walked in his shoes, so I don't feel qualified to judge him.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (16) Jan 08, 2012
Surely you don't think that once humans are sent up to Mars that there will be no others going there also?

antialias says:
Much cheaper to breed and educate them there. Also means that they will be adapted to the gravity level from childhood.

Sending large numbers of people to other planets is just a pipe dream until we figure out how to do that as easily/cheaply as the way we can get from one city to the next here on earth. The real universe isn't anything like in Hollywood movies. Space (even interplanetary) is BIG, dangerous, and expensive to get around in.

Mars can be a jumping off point for humans

Humanity will jump off of Mars (or the Moon, or Earth). Individual humans? Not so much.
We'll probably not even send biologicals on any trip even remotely interstellar.


Yes. . .well as far as the economics of it, if Communism takes hold in the future, money will not be a problem since the governments will decide who goes to Mars and who stays on Earth.
antialias_physorg
4.8 / 5 (12) Jan 08, 2012
Yes. . .well as far as the economics of it, if Communism takes hold in the future, money will not be a problem since the governments will decide who goes to Mars and who stays on Earth.

And this will be different from how it will be decided in capitalism exactly how?

At least in communism there is the (theoretical) possibility that the means for space travel will be available to all on an equal basis. Unfortunately ideal communism has never been even remotely implemented. We'll have to wait for that on e until the means of producing anything are so ubiquitous as to be available to all. 'Simple' molecular/atomic building devices along the line of 3D printers and decentralized power production should do the trick.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (28) Jan 08, 2012
@antialias. . . .the coming? New World Order will not be so much different from pure? Communism in that your will and desires as an individual will be subjugated to the will of the collective as ruled by the future leaders of the New World Order. You will be but a small part of the collective and you will not be allowed to be advanced in thought, word and deed, or else you will be regarded as thinking that you know what's best for yourself, or above the rest of your peers. That would be intolerable. The discussion we are having would not be allowed by the "state", since it may result in NEW ideas and planning that could possibly be detrimental to the NWO rule of law. They will crack down on you; already the researchers are looking towards the time when one of their inventions can read thoughts. Once they perfect that technology, your life will NOT be your own. You WILL do what the "state" (NWO) desires you to do.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
You will follow orders and whatever scientific knowledge you may harbor in your mind will be extracted by whatever means necessary, even by lobotomy. With your knowledge, you will be considered an "enemy" of the state. You and everyone else will not be allowed to know more than anyone else. They will have other groups who will not be denied information who can contribute to the advancement and glory of the NWO. If you are elderly at that time, you will have the choice of suicide or assisted suicide since you will no longer be productive. Your descendants will never get to Mars except as laborers as they will not likely be one of the "ELITE" or the 1% that will rule over you and billions of other human detritus.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
Within Capitalism, you have many choices. . .you are free to choose bad choices and good choices. In the NWO and Communism, your choices are limited according to what your bosses need from you. Yes, there will ALWAYS be bosses who will keep you and others in line for the benefit of the NWO. Forget about Mars for yourself and your descendants. Only a chosen few may go there and they will be the "guinea pigs" and the workers until Mars is made ready for the New World Order to take over. If you think you will have a salary or pension from the NWO, you are dreaming. You will get whatever they think you are worth, and nothing more.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (14) Jan 08, 2012
You will follow orders and whatever scientific knowledge you may harbor in your mind will be extracted by whatever means necessary, even by lobotomy.
So is this what happened to you? Are you bitter about this? Do you think this is what causes you to see stoplights and think that they are ufos?
Your descendants will never get to Mars except as laborers
Not just laborers remember, but biomechanical laborers in lily white anti-radon jumpsuits. They might actually enjoy this.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2012
collective as ruled by the future leaders of the New World Order.

What you describe is feudalism, not communism. And I actually don't think it's coming. Governments are becoming increasingly irrelevant with companies already having become global players.

since it may result in NEW ideas and planning that could possibly be detrimental to the NWO rule of law.
Funny how all modern, successfull countries rely on new ideas to keep them going, isn't it?

Keeping people in line and under surveillance doesn't seem to work too well in the long run. As explained elsewhere: Human systems are fiction and must be supported by something based on reality. Human systems tend to run down reality based systems (resources, etc. ) so we are completely dependent on new ideas and change of our societies for the future survival of the species.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
Feudalism is rule of law over ONE country. I refer to the NWO who will implement Communism to CONTROL the populations of the whole Earth.
Many corporations are hand in glove with government leaders. The corporations DEPEND on these leaders to ensure support for corporate planning and lessening of taxation, plus investment into the corporations of taxpayer money, e.g. Solyndra and the car company that hired workers in Finland.
New ideas are welcomed in this present age since Communism and the NWO haven't been implemented as yet. But, in time, new ideas will be expected from a select few from each region of the Earth according to each region's needs.
Surveillance is already happening in train and bus stations, airports, ports of shipping, even in one Social Security office I read about in Florida where men with automatic rifles were sent to the office and the old people going there couldn't understand where was the security threat.

RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
You don't seem to fathom what the future of the world will be after Communism and the NWO are in place. The human system is alive and well at this moment. . .but in the coming years, and with the complete dumbing down of the nation's children so that they expect entitlements from taxpayer money and may not even BE AWARE that it is taxpayer money, rather than from Uncle Sam's deep pockets, the dependency of enough people on the government will bring about Communism, and in turn, the NWO. Each country's leadership will fall and the citizens will be reeducated to accept full Communism and the NWO leadership. It will be gradual. . .maybe not in our lifetimes, but it will happen because of human laziness and the acceptance of the nanny state.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (12) Jan 08, 2012
Before you argue about something that you never have seemed to bothered looking up I would refer you to the following:
http://en.wikiped...ommunism

Note the first sentence.
Note the word 'stateless'.

Then reread what you have written.
Then realize your entire chain of argumentation makes no sense whatsoever.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
"Stateless" meaning a world without borders. . .which is part of the NWO UTILIZING Communist ideals to subjugate the world's population. Classless and moneyless is a fraud to promote this fairy tale to the gullible,

and it also says that, "The exact definition of communism varies," and "Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninists revised this theory by introducing the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to hold all political power after the revolution, "in the name of the workers" and with worker participation" and, "Communists such as council communists and non-Marxist libertarian communists and anarcho-communist oppose the idea of a vanguard party and a transition stage, and advocate for the construction of full communism to begin immediately upon the abolition of capitalism."
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
Socialism is a means to an end. Both Socialism and Communism are tools that will be used by the larger New World Order for the purpose of destroying Capitalism amongst the lower classes so that they will be entirely dependent on the state for everything. All property will be confiscated and regarded as ownership by the collective, but in reality, it will be the NWO leadership that will own everything. Now what else do you not understand about the NWO?
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (15) Jan 08, 2012
Amongst the leadership of the New World Order, there will be money and goods and buying and selling of goods. They will be owners of property just as the Russian Communist elite had ownership of their Bulgarian Black Sea dacha.
No ownership for the other 6 billion peons, just keep on working until they drop.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (13) Jan 08, 2012
Amongst the leadership of the New World Order, there will be money and goods and buying and selling of goods. They will be owners of property just as the Russian Communist elite had ownership of their Bulgarian Black Sea dacha.
No ownership for the other 6 billion peons, just keep on working until they drop.
Uh who you talking to rg? Your imaginary bf? Or your imaginary self perhaps?
jsdarkdestruction
4 / 5 (13) Jan 08, 2012
Oops, pardon me. His name is Orac, not Ocar. Omatumr has been using Orac frequently to vote down anyone who did not agree with him.

no, he rates all of olivers threads a 1 too. plus ive messaged him a few times and he will respond and based on what he said in those messages i find it very unlikely it is oliver.
Skepticus_Rex
1.3 / 5 (35) Jan 08, 2012
Oops, pardon me. His name is Orac, not Ocar. Omatumr has been using Orac frequently to vote down anyone who did not agree with him.


Orac isn't Omatumr. I am pretty sure that orac is a FrankHerbert sockpuppet. The pattern of use fits with that of his former user name, MikeyK, and his former practices with sockpuppets and using 'silent' sockpuppets to one-rank every post of everyone he doesn't like.

RitchieGuy,

I am not sure we know enough about the surface of Mars to say definitively what is or is not present on the entire surface. It is important to remove perchlorates from the soils. They inhibit proper thyroid function. Until that tech is developed, or we can find soils completely free of the substances, we will not long survive on foods grown in such soils without serious medical consequences.
RitchieGuy
1.1 / 5 (57) Jan 08, 2012
@S. Rex. . . .I may be wrong, and there's no way to tell unless the Rovers can test for perchlorates elsewhere on Mars, but I would find it hard to believe that perchlorates are prevalent all over the planet. It just doesn't seem possible. I think the stuff was found somewhere in Chile but I haven't read anything more about that. That's why I think it's important to develop autonomous AI to do the dirty work, so to speak, before any attempt is made of sending any biologicals there. And we are stuck on Earth anyway, until a safe, radiation-free way to travel is discovered.
RitchieGuy
1 / 5 (38) Jan 08, 2012
@S. Rex. . . .to be honest, after seeing Oliver's picture and reading his posts, i think the man is too much of a gentleman to vote anyone down and he really doesn't seem the type to go for foolishness like creating sockpuppets. I think he's way too mature for that nonsense.

I'm also more inclined to not believe that he sexually abused all 4 of his children. If he had done it to ONE of them, that would be more believable. But FOUR? I don't think so. Like I said earlier, his kids might have hated him for a reason such as keeping their inheritance money from them. Or, it could have been many other reasons for them hating him. The 2 stepchildren could have hated him because of the usual reason. A lot of kids hate their stepdads for one reason or another. Some kids are jealous when another man comes into their mum's life. It's been known to happen.
Ji_Podiv_n
4 / 5 (4) Jan 09, 2012
I think Mr. Anderson forgets one thing: this is not about our petty morality issues this is about survival!
Assuming that we do not invent some kind of FTL travel (and it seems we don't please correct me if I'm wrong) then Mars and this solar system is all we have in our shot-term and mid-term future (I'am talking about hundreds and thousands of years, in that order).
If there is any life on Mars and I have to say so far we have no direct confirmation on that, then it is frozen in its current state and that will not change for few next hundreds of milions of years.
So if we warm Mars up a little bit it can only help it and if not well, few archeas are not more valuable than mankind and all biosphere of Earth we are indirectly saving by terraforming frozen rock the Mars is.
J. Podivin
Humpty
1.4 / 5 (9) Jan 09, 2012
I'd like to get a great big rocket of some description, strap it horizontally to Marrs, and simply speed the RPM up enough to give it a magnetic field and more gravity....

Though I am not that sure this will work....

(RPM = Revolutions Per Month)

But it sounds like a brilliant idea.