New MIT paper outlines plan to fight election interference

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One of the most urgent threats facing our democracy and other democracies abroad is the ability to detect and thwart foreign election interference. But, research on election interference is scarce, according to a new article published in Science this week by two professors from MIT titled "Protecting Elections from Social Media Manipulation."

The dearth of real data has led scientists to disagree about the extent of the problem. Has social media manipulation affected the results of elections around the world in recent years? Differences of opinion on this important question stem from differing beliefs about the likely reach and scope of misinformation campaigns and the likely effects of social media manipulation on voter turnout and vote choice.

For example, some scientists contend that Russian interference probably did not decide the 2016 election because the reach and scope of Russian misinformation was small, concentrated and selective. Others argue a combination of Russian trolls and hacking likely tipped the election for Donald Trump. Similar disagreements exist about the U.K. referendum on leaving the European Union and recent elections in Brazil, Sweden, and India. As a result, there is no clear path forward to fixing the problem.

In their new Science paper, Sinan Aral and Dean Eckles of the MIT Sloan School of Management outline a four step research agenda to understand how, when and to what extent interference affects our elections.

"If we fund and pursue this agenda," says Aral, "we will learn how to protect democracy. Without it, democracies will remain vulnerable to foreign and domestic attacks worldwide."

The authors' four-step research agenda for estimating the causal effects of social media manipulation on and vote choice include: (1) Cataloguing exposure to manipulative media, (2) Combining exposure data with data on . (3) Assessing the effect of manipulative messages on behavior and (4) Computing the aggregate consequences of changes in voting behavior for election outcomes.

"You cannot manage what you do not measure," says co-author Dean Eckles. "We need rigorous analysis of effects of these foreign campaigns on voting behavior."

One key takeaway for policymakers designing legislation is that they must think systematically about the tradeoffs, for example, between election integrity and . As the authors point out, "well-intentioned privacy regulations, while important, may also impede assessments of election interference by complicating or even outlawing routine retention of data necessary to audit manipulation."

"There are privacy-preserving ways to protect our data and our elections at the same time," says Aral. "To take advantage of them, Congress must consult experts in designing legislation that acknowledges these multiple goals and avoids their tradeoffs."

Achieving a scientific understanding of the effects of social manipulation on elections is an important civic duty. Without it, democracies remain vulnerable. The authors conclude: "The sooner we begin a public discussion of the tradeoffs between privacy, , and that arise from the pursuit of this science, the sooner we can realize a path forward."


Explore further

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More information: S. Aral el al., "Protecting elections from social media manipulation," Science (2019). science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi … 1126/science.aaw8243

mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to … nipulation-elections

Journal information: Science

Citation: New MIT paper outlines plan to fight election interference (2019, August 30) retrieved 21 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-08-mit-paper-outlines-election.html
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Aug 30, 2019
I think that foreign interference in our elections are about the lowest danger to our ''democracy''. I think the fact that there are 25,000,000 illegal aliens live in our country pose a greater danger. I don't need a Phd to make that statement. That along with the rampant corruption in elected officials, our new Aristocracy, who protect these Illegal immigrants and pave the way for them to vote illegally by granting them public ID's and driver's licenses, and benefits often greater than those given legal citizens that deserve it, pose a much greater danger. Second only to them, are the corrupt operators of the Media, including the facebooks and internet mavins.

Aug 30, 2019
Our Founding Fathers gave us a Republic, "If you [we] can keep it." Our FF rightfully feared mob-rule democracy. Our Founding Fathers were far more historically literate than pundits and elites, and Thucydides History of the Peloponnesian War was fundamental political education.

Read Thucydides. Read Mogen Herman Hansen's *The Athenian Democracy in the Age of Demosthenes* (Blackwell 1991), in which he catalogues the failings and failure of the democracy - for just the corruption that we now see. Read Victor Davis Hanson's *The War Like No Other: How the Athenians and the Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War* (Random 2006) in which military historian Hanson draws many parallels with contemporary history.

Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Aug 30, 2019
Read Thucydides. Read Mogen Herman Hansen's *The Athenian Democracy in the Age of Demosthenes* (Blackwell 1991), in which he catalogues the failings and failure of the democracy - for just the corruption that we now see.

Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

What would you recommend instead of democracy? It isn't perfect system but it's difficult to come up with a better solution.

If the ruling is left for one people (autocracy), there can be very serious problems. Just check how much Trump is causing havoc or how bad of a leader Stalin was.

If the ruling is left to a small group (oligarchy), they usually simply drive their own benefits instead of the peoples'. Just check how Russia is doing right now.

There needs to be some kind of incentive for the leaders to listen to the people. That's why a voting/feedback mechanism is needed.

Aug 30, 2019
While the fools worry about foreign influence in US elections the real problem is a biased agenda driven one sided mainstream media that are little more than propaganda outlets for the left. Judges refuse to allow voter ID laws enabling dead people and non citizens to vote.

Aug 30, 2019
Also the political dirty tricks have reached the breaking point in US politics. The attempted overthrow of a duly elected president has reached 3rd world coup levels.

Aug 30, 2019
Wow, it is so sad how the level of intellectual discourse has declined here. The trolls have taken over.

Aug 30, 2019
none of this matters
quislings like ms666
& copperheads like badjok
have trashed the American Empire

until there are nation-wide indictments & prosecutions
for the trump crime family
& the rest of pimp putin's whores in the RNC & NRA ?

putin & the saudis global fascist axis will use their sycophants
such as moscow mitch to dominate their obedient lackeys running America's election boards

before you get all excited at getting to vote for your favorite corrupt GOP traitor?

voluntary voting isn;t approved by the cult of treason

your vote as well as mine?
will wind up in an MIR shredder (Made In Russia)
the bogus patriots couldn't even "Buy American"

Aug 30, 2019
What would you recommend instead of democracy? It isn't perfect system but it's difficult to come up with a better solution.
Nyah. Only for y'all of limited historicity.

Sortition, election of volunteers by lot. Limited enfranchisement to those with doxastic comittment - military enfranchisement, voter qualification test.

Aug 30, 2019
Quite a disappointing article. The authors point out "policymakers designing legislation is that they must think systematically about the tradeoffs, for example, between election integrity and privacy policy" but totally ignore freedom of speech. There's no discussion if foreigners should have the freedom (and likewise of US citizens) to speak about their desires for the outcome of a foreign election. Further, there's no mention of the fact that it's not speech or money that elects politicians, it's voters. Didn't Trump teach us you don't have to raise or spend the most money to win an election (spending less than both Bush and Clinton by far). Nothing is said about the desire or legality of non-citizens voting in the election (isn't that foreign election interference by foreigners far more than Facebook posts?).

Seems to me what's going on here, is researchers are seeking government money, to help the Democrats further their false narrative that Russia helped Trump win.

Aug 30, 2019
have trashed the American Empire


Things are better than ever before in human history, including in America.

You're just being a self-imposed loser.

Aug 30, 2019
There's no discussion if foreigners should have the freedom (and likewise of US citizens) to speak about their desires for the outcome of a foreign election.
It's one thing for a person to speak out; it's entirely another for a troll farm using hacked computers run by a foreign intelligence apparat to influence an election. That's not legitimate political expression; it's espionage.

You're not for free minds; you're for hacked minds. Disgusting.

Aug 30, 2019
Very simple: every post is accompanied by the nationality of the poster, or a statement that they have used an anonymizer and their nationality cannot be established. This will make it clear when someone is using bots to make posts through anonymizers to try to influence an election. No need for personal identities; just look at how many are from, say, Russia, and how the anonymous posts are trending.

Aug 30, 2019
'Federal election records show that the Trump campaign paid Cambridge Analytica roughly $6 million. Cambridge Analytica said it never used Kogan's data in its work for Trump. The Trump campaign also denied using the firm's data.' - the denial is absurd of course, you'd just have to listen to what Parscale said at the time.

Brad Parscale, Trump's digital director who was empowered with spending decisions across the campaign, credited strategic last-minute investments with helping propel the political newcomer to victory.
The campaign and Republican party spent about $5m in get-out-the-vote digital advertising targeted in the final few days to Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Florida. It proved critical; some of those states were won by razor-thin margins.
"You think, what if we hadn't spent that?" Parscale said. "We might not have won."
Reward for Parscale's work with Cambridge Analytica? Campaign chairman for Trump 2020.

Aug 30, 2019
Paper. Ballots.

Aug 31, 2019
Meanwhile Google alters search results at will in order to achieve their social and political agenda. But since they lean heavily left there is no organized opposition to their election tampering.

Aug 31, 2019
well missy666
since you are the typical innumerate altright fairytail?

i'll explain it for your feeble mind

if Google us being swamped by such resounding numbers of Americans seeking verifiable data ?
not corrupted by pimp putin's whores
such as yourself, missy

how many of them are voters cheated of their voting rights by the criminal conspiracy of the NRA & GOP
themselves victims & now collaborators of KGB remnant ops blackmail?

ohh missy... is that moscow mitch's face i see leering over your shoulder? or il'jung's?

putin must rival the saudis as which of them have the best collection of porn of republican politicians & businessmen

no wonder pitin & the saudis have such a fear/hate relationship with Barak & Hilary
they were both just too smart to be entrapped by your masters, missy

Aug 31, 2019
RR my father, a lifelong Republican voted for Hillary in 2016. He never would have done that if he were alive.

Aug 31, 2019
If the Democrats cared one iota about voter fraud and manipulation they would be picketing the WH for strict voter ID laws.

Aug 31, 2019
One key takeaway is that if you're making important decisions based on "information" from social media, you might be an idiot.

Aug 31, 2019
so, missy666 are you complaining that the GOP/NRA quislings running the election systems (into the ground)
are not only corrupt & treasonous?
but also inept & incompetent?

sounds about "right" to me!

hacksda, a reasonable self-evaluation of your lack of personality
good for you!
i'm glad you are finally receiving therapy for your deep-rooted inferiority

Aug 31, 2019
So what's the deal here, @MR666 and @assdad want the Russians to help them win the election even if everybody knows? Maybe they can get the Iranians and North Koreans to help too. Traitors.


Sep 01, 2019
"So what's the deal here, @MR666 and @assdad want the Russians to help them win the election even if everybody knows? Maybe they can get the Iranians and North Koreans to help too. Traitors"

Two years and 40 million dollars have proven that only the Democratic Deep State has committed any election related crimes.

The democrats were the ones that created the Russian collusion hoax for the useful idiots to parrot about.

Sep 01, 2019
"Achieving a scientific understanding of the effects of social media manipulation on elections is an important civic duty. Without it, democracies remain vulnerable. The authors conclude: "The sooner we begin a public discussion of the tradeoffs between privacy, free speech, and democracy that arise from the pursuit of this science, the sooner we can realize a path forward."


In a nation as diverse such as the US, every group, be it racial, political, religious, LBGT, social, education, etc. are all jockeying for position at the public feeding trough. In the end, it is all about money and how much of it can be gotten from the working taxpayers. The rest of it - all the bickering, undercutting, and ad hominem attacks and downright LIES in the end are meaningless - except for the possible taking away/removal of human freedom of self-determination, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Sep 01, 2019
-contd-
Those, like President Trump, who work with, and have great respect for the US Constitution the freedom of the individual, should prevail. But there are too many indoctrinated Americans who tend to believe the lies of the Socialists, and will more than likely vote for Socialism in the 2020 presidential election. It will be a sad day for the USA when and if that happens, for Americans will have lost their power of individualism and will have to jump through the hoops that the Socialists will force on them. After the Socialists have gained such a foothold on the American way of life, the US Constitution and its laws will be trashed and a Soviet style of Communism will be imposed on all American citizens. Those from Mexico, Central America and elsewhere will become the slaves of the Communist elite.
It has happened in the past, and it will happen again. Only this time it will happen in a free democracy, and that democracy will be wiped out, similar to Red China.

Sep 01, 2019
BREXIT: the threats facing our democracy is the ability to detect and thwart election interference

BREXIT
a decision
by a democratic referendum

roll on this Halloween, for theses witches, doth screech and cackle
For this day draws near
whence we finally leave this dreadful institution

and it Back-stop
simply
another attempt to thwart this Democratic process

Sep 01, 2019
There's no discussion if foreigners should have the freedom (and likewise of US citizens) to speak about their desires for the outcome of a foreign election.
It's one thing for a person to speak out; it's entirely another for a troll farm using hacked computers run by a foreign intelligence apparat to influence an election. That's not legitimate political expression; it's espionage.

You're not for free minds; you're for hacked minds. Disgusting.
says Schneib

If it's not too much bother for you and since you seem so well informed, perhaps you may be able to provide us the evidence that "a troll farm using hacked computers run by a foreign intelligence apparat to influence an election. " has been observed and reported for ANY American election, particularly the 2016 presidential election.
Could any such espionage have been done by:
Christopher Steel
James Comey
Lisa Page and Peter Strok
Barack Hussein Obama
someone at the DOJ
someone at the FBI

Sep 01, 2019
Meanwhile.....back at the CIA...

HAA...HAA....HAA....HAA....

Sep 01, 2019
These Hong Kong students

Will these students never learn
these students are playing right into BEJINGs hands
as BEJING is using these students as a smoke screen
To dismantle these freedoms these students proclaim to uphold

Oops, there goes another airport up in flames
There goes another street of expensive department stores

If you did not know these were students, you would thing they were straight from BEJING as decoys

Sep 01, 2019
@granville
That old devil, the Socialist Jeremy Corbyn wants desperately for good Englishmen (and others in G.B.) to be at the beck and call of the European Union Elites; to bend and scrape and to pay their hard-earned pounds and shillings for the upkeep and support of those aliens from Africa and the Middle East who have heard that it is easy to get on the dole and how Europeans are easy pickings because they see themselves as compassionate and all-caring for the poor and homeless.
An atrocity is being committed on the Europeans, and they are well aware of it. But they are too stupid to understand that they are being played for the suckers that they are, by those who only care about themselves and to take advantage of the willing lambs.

Sep 01, 2019
These Hong Kong students

Will these students never learn
these students are playing right into BEJINGs hands
as BEJING is using these students as a smoke screen
To dismantle these freedoms these students proclaim to uphold

Oops, there goes another airport up in flames
There goes another street of expensive department stores

If you did not know these were students, you would thing they were straight from BEJING as decoys


granville, it is now known that many are from Beijing and who have sneaked into Hong Kong to infiltrate the protesters. They are likely there to not only get information and names, but to incite the students to kill someone. And that will be the motive for the Army to fire on the students to kill as many as possible. Hong Kong was a nice city, and Beijing would dearly love to move their own people there. All they would have to do is to eliminate thousands of Hong Kong residents and that would free up more room.

Sep 01, 2019
Meanwhile.....back at the CIA...

HAA...HAA....HAA....HAA....
says antigoracle

Oh yes, the CIA. Who would know more about espionage than the Central Intelligence Agency? LOL

Sep 01, 2019
So what's the deal here, @MR666 and @assdad want the Russians to help them win the election even if everybody knows? Maybe they can get the Iranians and North Koreans to help too. Traitors.
says Schneib

Oh Schneib, we have noticed that your Master, Captain Strumpy hasn't been making comments to insist that other commentators provide HIM with evidence for their assertions - scientific or otherwise, so that HE can confirm what they have asserted is true. Unless he is operating under a sock for that purpose. But we are keeping him under surveillance.
It is also evident that he and his demons are busy causing trouble around the country, getting into Americans' brains to convince them to shoot guns at innocent people. It is too soon to deal with him, but the time will come, I assure you.

Sep 01, 2019
Pro-democracy Conspiracies

Joshua Wong and other pro-democracy figures arrested
Wong and fellow activist Agnes Chow subsequently released
SEU> granville, it is now known that many are from Beijing and who have sneaked into Hong Kong to infiltrate the protesters

As democracy conspiracies go, SEU
Those that have infiltrated this violent democracy moment
Have been arrested
Then, SEU
Released from the jurisdiction of the court
A court, SEU
Under total control, from BEJING
As conspiracies go, Wong and fellow activist Agnes Chow subsequently released
Is rife with conspiracies!

p.s. SEU, a lesson for American pro-democracy students, how not to conduct a day in the office, demonstrating!

Sep 01, 2019
RR my father, a lifelong Republican voted for Hillary in 2016. He never would have done that if he were alive.
says MR166

LOL Too funny. I assume that had it actually happened, you would have found out afterwards by all the mailings coming from Democrat Party affiliates to your Dad's mailing address, asking for donations.

Sep 01, 2019
"Maybe they can get the Iranians and North Koreans to help too. Traitors. "

Meanwhile Da it was the Democrats that gave both of them sweetheart deals. You remember the pallets of cash shipped by Obama right?

Sep 01, 2019
@granville
I/we have found it a bit suspicious that the students in Hong Kong are flying the American Stars and Stripes, even while President Trump is attaching sanctions onto trade with China. Do the students in H.K. believe that the US will come to their rescue when H.K. just happens to be on mainland China? If that is what the students thought, it won't happen. Their best offensive is to pack up and move to the island of Taiwan, where they will be welcomed and may continue their studies. When they have left, Hong Kong will become just another place run by a totalitarian state, and the place will no longer be populated by highly motivated "Free Enterprise" establishments.
For us, all hope for Hong Kong as a free state has been lost.

Sep 01, 2019
Pack up and move to the island of Taiwan, where they will be welcomed to continue their studies
@granville
I/we have found it a bit suspicious that the students in Hong Kong are flying the American Stars and Stripes, even while President Trump is attaching sanctions onto trade with China. Do the students in H.K. believe that the US will come to their rescue when H.K. just happens to be on mainland China? If that is what the students thought, it won't happen. Their best offensive is to pack up and move to the island of Taiwan, where they will be welcomed and may continue their studies. When they have left, Hong Kong will become just another place run by a totalitarian state, and the place will no longer be populated by highly motivated "Free Enterprise" establishments.
For us, all hope for Hong Kong as a free state has been lost.

And start pro-democracy movement in Taiwan

So, SEU
After destroying Hong Kong
You flee to Taiwan
And then these Taiwanese
Welcome you with open arms!

Sep 01, 2019
Foreth, SEU

This answers your Tiananmen Square question
Where are these students now?

Fore in weeks to come
This question is going to be asked
Wong and fellow activist Agnes Chow subsequently released, but where are they now?

Sep 01, 2019
Taiwan is a 'free state' and is unencumbered with the threat of the Chinese Navy coming to take over the island nation. If Beijing attempted such a coup, the nations in the near and far vicinities will be ready to back up the Taiwanese government. If those nations avoided such a conflict, THEY would be next in China's bid to take over all of the small nations of the Pacific. That was attempted by the Japanese government during WW2 and they were beaten because they attacked Pearl Harbour. So, Taiwan is relatively safe from Beijing and Communism.

Sep 01, 2019
I haven't heard of what has happened to Wong and Miss Chow. They may have been both killed after their release, or they may have gone anywhere. Hopefully, they are both safe. The US government cannot help them or the other students.
Hong Kong is a beautiful city, but it won't be for long, unless the people who move there are mostly Communist bureaucrats.

Sep 01, 2019
But, is it safe from these Students
Taiwan is relatively safe from Beijing and Communism

As these students might have genuine motives
But
BEJING has its own motives
For BEJING has just given Hong Kong voting privileges not available to Chinese citizens

But now BEJING is busy taking away all these privileges
Yet again, thanks to the stupidity of students

For this is based around an Extradition Treaty
An Extradition Treaty - BEJING is now busy adding names drafting these arrest warrants

Sep 01, 2019
I haven't heard of what has happened to Wong and Miss Chow. They may have been both killed after their release, or they may have gone anywhere. Hopefully, they are both safe. The US government cannot help them or the other students.
Hong Kong is a beautiful city, but it won't be for long, unless the people who move there are mostly Communist bureaucrats.

They were on SKY news,
They were muted and back tracking
They are quietly slipping into the shadows
If they have any sense they should stay quiet
As BEJING is letting them go, if they go quietly

BEJING has got what it wants, its extradition treaty!

Sep 01, 2019
Regarding "election interference". the BEST way to make sure that there is no such interference, is for EACH VOTER TO MONITOR HIS/HER voting results to make certain that it hasn't been changed digitally/electronically. It should be up to each voter to have the will to take the proper steps, otherwise anyone who has found a way to compromise the voting machines could change the outcome of an election. Most humans just vote and be done with it, but voting is a 'sacred trust' and should be looked after carefully.
Donald Trump was elected fairly by a great majority who did NOT believe that Hillary Clinton would have made a good world leader. And they were right about that. We know that Obama stayed in Washington, DC because he believed that Hillary was going to win the election and that HE would have told HER what to do, as the REAL POWER BEHIND THE PRESIDENT. So, he decided to stay close at hand in the event that she was elected. He does have charisma, after all.

Sep 01, 2019
This Dimpled Ballot Paper!!!

But even Jeremy Corbyn
walks down the street
into an aging primary school
he's given his ballot paper
he goes into his little booth
and puts his cross, with the tiniest pencil on a piece of string

Then, like 40million of us, drops his paper in the ballot box, to be counted at midnight!

Sep 01, 2019
@granville
Comes the 2020 presidential election, depending on which political Party wins, and which Democrat candidate becomes President, IF Trump loses, there might be a mass exodus of freedom-loving American citizens to Canada or elsewhere who wanted Trump to remain the POTUS. I say this because of all the Liberal/Socialist rhetoric spoken by the Democrat Party candidates who intend to turn this nation topsy-turvy and sidewise from what was originally intended it to BE.
The students of Hong Kong have their own cross to bear. Perhaps they were too undisciplined and cocky to think that Beijing would let them get away with very much. And they are learning a hard lesson. In Russia, it would be something like "don't tease the bear" or something similar.
But Americans have their own problems now. And if Trump loses next year, and a hard-liner wins the White House, you can be sure that Beijing will be like a kitten compared to what the Socialist-minded candidates have planned for the US

Sep 01, 2019
This double act Trump and Boris

President's always get a second bit of the cherry
None of the parties have any candidates
The only one is Donald
And, over the pond, Boris
Any way
These Chinese students are putting the frighteners on these Americans

America has to deal with this age old problem that hit the news today, again!

Sep 01, 2019
granville, Socialism AND Communism have been romanticised by the educational system in the US public schools. The American youth have never experienced either Socialism OR Communism, so they go around saying things like, "REAL Communism has never been tried". Their heads full of mush don't understand that what has already been tried was horrible for the humans who lived under such a system. And just imagine if REAL Communism is tried, what kind of life would that be for young Americans? Perhaps they believe that the REAL Communism will afford them the 'freedoms' that their parents had in the 60s and 70s. And they will keep up their silly rhetoric, at least for awhile, until the REAL reality sets in.
It will be something to watch.

Sep 01, 2019
Boris (in spite of his unruly hair, LOL) has managed to gain her Majesty the Queen's cooperation - no small feat that. I admire both men, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson, where both are much more concerned about the welfare of their citizens and the future of their respective countries.
There is no theatricalism with them. They are both genuine good fellas.

Sep 01, 2019
The only reasons to be against election security are obvious: one is either in favor of interference, or one is a quisling.

I can't believe people are outing themselves on this thread.

Sep 01, 2019
One would think that young Americans would take the experiences of the Chinese students to heart, and be more wary of Communism that follows Socialism. But Americans have a long history of believing themselves to be immune and far removed from the possibilities of gulags, pogroms, and killing fields. "first they came for the Jews, and I said nothing..."

Sep 01, 2019
The only reasons to be against election security are obvious: one is either in favor of interference, or one is a quisling.

I can't believe people are outing themselves on this thread.
says Schneib

Perhaps you failed to read what I said that, "for EACH VOTER TO MONITOR HIS/HER voting results to make certain that it hasn't been changed digitally/electronically. It should be up to each voter to have the will to take the proper steps, otherwise anyone who has found a way to compromise the voting machines could change the outcome of an election."

Sep 01, 2019
This Creeping Communism
SEU> The American youth have never experienced either Socialism OR Communism, so they go around saying things like, "REAL Communism has never been tried". Their heads full of mush don't understand that what has already been tried was horrible for the humans who lived under such a system. And just imagine if REAL Communism is tried, what kind of life would that be for young Americans?

Foreth
we are about to find out
this pulse
of this American youth
over
these coming days
in these American Universities
these Colleges
this actual truth
from the horse's mouth
for
as they say
watch this space

Sep 01, 2019
Creeping Communism

Two unruly ministers
two mops of distinction
either side of this same pond
battling this same foe
creeping communism
where as, over another pond
these Moonchines
battle another foe
similar to this American foe
these students
fore from these
elite educational establishments
students are the root of this communistic evil
as though
these horrors
recorded in these student histological library of horrors
horrors of these Russian wastes
stretching as the greatest seas on this earth
where 30 millions gave their souls in pursuit of communism
this untried communism
these
American youth
speak in tones of admiration
30 million souls is not a drop in this ocean of these billion Russian souls of population
fore these Americans only measure 250 million souls
cannot afford to lose this drop in this ocean
America cannot afford to lose 30 million souls

Sep 01, 2019
"The only reasons to be against election security are obvious: one is either in favor of interference, or one is a quisling."

Da security also includes making sure that only eligible people vote. Are you if favor having to show identification and proving citizenship when voting?

Sep 01, 2019
Amen to that, granville. One year from this November 2019 will be 'the election to end all elections'. And Hallowe'en will bring with it, Brexit. And Corbyn can go pound sand.
When you hear what is coming out of the mouths of American presidential candidates of the Democrat Party persuasion, it should instill FEAR in the hearts of American citizens, as well as thoughts of, "what on earth are we getting ourselves into?"
But I am almost certain that those voters who are enamoured with the promise of Free health care; Free college tuition; Free housing; Free Free Free.
AND when most jobs are being worked by Artificial Intelligence robotics, why, humans won't have to work at ALL. When there is no more need for humans to dwell on the Earth after AI has taken that need away, then what will they do with the unproductive humans? I'm sure that the Socialist/Communists will think of something.

Sep 01, 2019
"Soylent Green" comes to mind. Could the New Green Party be a forerunner of Soylent Green?

Sep 01, 2019
"The only reasons to be against election security are obvious: one is either in favor of interference, or one is a quisling."

Da security also includes making sure that only eligible people vote. Are you if favor having to show identification and proving citizenship when voting?

Sep 01, 2019
When will this communism end?
SEU> When there is no more need for humans to dwell on the Earth after AI has taken that need away, then what will they do with the unproductive humans?

When the last person leaves, shuts the door, turns out the light
Then communism will be no more
And all the house be still

Sep 01, 2019
LOL If science has found a way by then to manufacture machines that are part human, they will be ruled by a Communist system. Can't have half human robots thinking about Freedom and Individualism. That would be Anarchy. You see, granville, there will always be a struggle for POWER and CONTROL over humanity, just as there is now in Hong Kong. The Army is still going easy on the students for now. WHY? Because the whole world is watching, is why.
50 years ago, those students would have been laying on the ground bleeding to death already. But not with the media looking on now.

Sep 01, 2019
@MR166
I doubt that Schneib is going to answer such a loaded query. If he did answer, he would have to admit that the Democrat Party wants more illegal immigrants in the US to VOTE ILLEGALLY to give POWER and CONTROL back to the Democrats. That is the main purpose of flooding the US with such illegals. Barack Obama is a Socialist and his best friends are/were Socialists. Obama's father was a Communist and his mother and her father were Socialists. Obama was desperate for Hillary to become President because he could MANIPULATE HER quite easily. It is always about the struggle for Power and Control. Satan indulges in the struggle also. But that is a separate issue.

Sep 02, 2019
A Former British Colony - the cradle of democracy

Threats facing democracy, detecting election interference

- Pro-democracy demonstrators disrupt transport links -

Russian interference did not decide the 2016 election, Russian misinformation was too small

- Hong Kong students boycott classes as Chinese media warns the end is coming –

Whereas this former British colony, Hong Kong
Enjoys these riches of commercialisation
Benefits of this protectorate of sovereignty
Patronage of her majesty
For life in this former British colony
Is the envy, in these dirty old London grimy streets!

As Americans dodge these gung-ho bullets of daily life
These Hong Kong students are safe to walk these streets
Hong Kong students do not dream of their prom dresses
Do not dream of their after life
These embattled police men
Do not battle this daily hail of bullets
Foreth it is safe to work, live and play in Hong Kong

Well it was, till these stupid students asked fore - More!

Sep 02, 2019
All because the people "voted the wrong way" and the Establishment lost the vote. It must have been rigged by stupid people being told to vote wrong!

Sep 02, 2019
"Maybe they can get the Iranians and North Koreans to help too. Traitors. "

Meanwhile Da it was the Democrats that gave both of them sweetheart deals. You remember the pallets of cash shipped by Obama right?

Actually, that was in the earlier parts of the war. Ergo, Bush and company...

SEU
The Army is still going easy on the students for now. WHY? Because the whole world is watching, is why.
50 years ago, those students would have been laying on the ground bleeding to death already. But not with the media looking on now.

I think that it's the Chinese PEOPLE watching...
That would be one helluva civil war...

Sep 02, 2019
"Actually, that was in the earlier parts of the war. Ergo, Bush and company..."

Well Bush did not ship Iran piles of cash but he and Obama DID hand the ME to them on a silver platter by destabilizing Iraq. It is that fact and that fact that Trump is being attacked 24/7 by Democrats and Never Trumpers that leads me to believe we now have a ONE party system that is controlled by the Deep State.

Sep 02, 2019
"Actually, that was in the earlier parts of the war. Ergo, Bush and company..."

Well Bush did not ship Iran piles of cash but he and Obama DID hand the ME to them on a silver platter by destabilizing Iraq. It is that fact and that fact that Trump is being attacked 24/7 by Democrats and Never Trumpers that leads me to believe we now have a ONE party system that is controlled by the Deep State.

My bad. I convoluted Iran and Iraq...

Sep 02, 2019
"I think that foreign interference in our elections are about the lowest danger to our ''democracy''. I think the fact that there are 25,000,000 illegal aliens live in our country pose a greater danger."

It seems you are discussing US; it *is* a democracy. Unathorized immigrants which were 10 millions and sinking as of 2006 - 20017 [ https://www.pewre...the-u-s/ ] can't vote.

And it was irrelevant for the topic of the science. Blocked for inane trolling.

Sep 02, 2019
"Our FF rightfully feared mob-rule democracy."

Democracy *is* majority - "mob-rule"- and it is known as the worst system except every other tried. We live with it, and flourish thanks to it; it is embodied as a human right [ https://www.un.or...dex.html ].

And it was irrelevant for the topic of the science. Blocked for inane trolling.

Sep 02, 2019
"Nothing is said about the desire or legality of non-citizens voting in the election".

? They can't, and that is what statistics in US tell us.

But kudos for raising a point that was relevant (even if trolls raised the same point).


Sep 02, 2019
All because the people "voted the wrong way" and the Establishment lost the vote. It must have been rigged by stupid people being told to vote wrong!


Now you are contradicting the research - election interference has been found, see above - without references and for no good reason. The same can be said against you, you are just opinionated because Trump - very much part of the "Establishment" by the way - is attacked. But better yet, claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Sep 02, 2019
One can only agree with overcurious and Da Schneib, troll thread (even adding new ones). And they really out themselves - the only reason not to suspect the very science that should have been discussed, i.e. election interference is that it is mostly the usual trolls and their usual frantic foolishness frequency.

Sep 02, 2019
LOL This Torbjorn creature seems a mite piqued after reading the comments in this phorum. I have to wonder just WHY he is so bothered by the opinions of others, as though those opinions are a personal affront to Torbjorn himself. Certainly, his announcements that he will be BLOCKING someone's comments due to his 'nose for trolls' perception doesn't really carry much weight for most folks.
He also has me blocked, which I appreciate him not knowing MY opinions, whether of science or politics. Which also means that due to his self-imposed stupidity, Torbjorn has no knowledge of my discussion with others regarding the nonexistence of 'time', and my other opinions. He may wind up blocking the vast majority of physorg commentators because he regards them all as 'trolls' with nothing worthwhile reading, and miss out on learning the best posts/opinions. Such is the life of a man who imprisons himself from the rest of humanity to avoid being contaminated by ideas.

Sep 02, 2019
LOL This Torbjorn creature seems a mite piqued after reading the comments in this phorum. I have to wonder just WHY he is so bothered by the opinions of others, as though those opinions are a personal affront to Torbjorn himself. Certainly, his announcements that he will be BLOCKING someone's comments due to his 'nose for trolls' perception doesn't really carry much weight for most folks.
He also has me blocked, which I appreciate him not knowing MY opinions, whether of science or politics. Which also means that due to his self-imposed stupidity, Torbjorn has no knowledge of my discussion with others regarding the nonexistence of 'time', and my other opinions. He may wind up blocking the vast majority of physorg commentators because he regards them all as 'trolls' with nothing worthwhile reading, and miss out on learning the best posts/opinions. Such is the life of a man who imprisons himself from the rest of humanity to avoid being contaminated by ideas.
Shut up, you idiot..

Sep 02, 2019
I'm only telling the truth about Torbjorn and his allergic reactions to what others have to say on the issues. If YOU disapprove of what I have said about Torbjorn who seems to be living under a rock, then you are free to leave physorg and find a site where everyone agrees with everyone else, and nobody has a different opinion.
Nobody will miss you, Whyde. There will always be someone else to take your place.

The great thing about physorg is that it affords everyone a chance to have his say on the topics.

Sep 03, 2019
Anybody who's against researching election interference is either an agent of foreigners who wish to influence democratic elections or a quisling traitor. There is no possible excuse for not wanting to know the truth. If we find nothing, great; if we find something then we do something about it. This terrifies them. Look how they're trolling this thread.

Sep 03, 2019
This Threat to Democracy is from Students

A Former British Colony - the cradle of democracy - exists in China
As Americans dodge these gung-ho bullets of daily life
These Hong Kong students are safe to walk these streets
Well it was, till these stupid students asked fore - More!

These Hong Kong Bobbies
That are under siege
Not by Russian communists
Not by Chinese communists
None of these perils
These Hong Kong Bobbies
Are under siege
By university students
These students
Are breaking apart
This cradle of democracy - Hong Kong

This Threat to Democracy is from Students

Sep 03, 2019
The threat to democracy runs much deeper than election interference. None of us can ever hope to make an informed decision when we're being actively, purposefully misinformed. Here's a very recent example to illustrate the depth of the problem -- quoting a tweet from Media Lens:
Pink Floyd's Roger Waters performed 'Wish You Were Here' in support of Julian Assange yesterday.

ProQuest newspaper database finds *two* mentions in global media: in Asian News International, New Delhi, and Prensa Latina, Havana.

It finds NOTHING in any UK newspaper!
(The performance occurred directly in front of the UK's "Home Office")

Look at all the people here blaming Russia for interference when the truth is that rules for the electoral college votes were changed in six key states (WI, MI, IN, OH, PA, FL) directly resulting in a candidate winning the election despite having lost the popular vote. Democracy died along with the truth, quite some time ago...

Sep 03, 2019
Meh. Julian Assange got co-opted as a Russian tool. I have some respect for Waters, but in this case he has been co-opted too. It's a shame.

Sep 03, 2019
Proto most of the states that you listed are controlled by the Democrats. Thus I really doubt that they changed the electoral college in favor of the Republicans. The electoral college system was created so that a handful of big cities would not totally control national elections thus giving rural communities some say in governance. The US was not founded as a Democracy but as a Republic. Look up the difference.

Sep 03, 2019
In some states like New York a pole worker cannot even ask for ID. Thus if you are on the rolls you can vote as anyone that you claim to be. There is only a signature check as verification. Also, NY has voted to give illegal aliens a drivers license. Voter registration rules in NY automatically register one to vote when a drivers license is issued. Thus non-citizens are given the ability to vote in New York in direct violation of federal law.

Sep 03, 2019
Meh. Julian Assange got co-opted as a Russian tool. I have some respect for Waters, but in this case he has been co-opted too. It's a shame.
"The narrative that Assange worked for or knowingly conspired with the Russian government is a hallucination of the demented Russia hysteria which has infected all corners of mainstream political discourse. There is no evidence for it whatsoever, and anyone making this claim should be corrected and dismissed." -- see Assange Smear 4: "He's a Russian agent."

Sep 03, 2019
Now if NY wanted to limit voting to citizens they could issue special drivers licensees to aliens that showed they were not citizens and did not grant voting rights. Thus it is obvious that this Democratically controlled state wants to encourage illegal voting.

Sep 03, 2019
The US was not founded as a Democracy but as a Republic. Look up the difference
Yeah but 'towards a more perfect union' MR166, towards a more perfect union. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with that ...

Sep 03, 2019
In my mind there is not really that much difference between so called foreign interference in the vote non-citizens voting illegally.

Sep 03, 2019
"Yeah but 'towards a more perfect union' MR166, towards a more perfect union. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with that ..."

Who says that a pure Democracy is a more perfect union??? The Founding Fathers were very aware of the problems that every form of government presented. Thus they formed a Republic and not a Democracy. In a pure Democracy the people can vote to take away all private property. Is that a more perfect union?

Sep 03, 2019
"Meh. Julian Assange got co-opted as a Russian tool. I have some respect for Waters, but in this case he has been co-opted too. It's a shame. "

Da it seems to me that anyone who does not 100% tow the Democratic Party line has been "co-opted" in your opinion.

Sep 03, 2019
In my mind there is not really that much difference between so called foreign interference in the vote [and] non-citizens voting illegally.
It's a system either of, by, and for the people, or it isn't. If the foreign interference is in the form of money, that's the open door for conflict of interests and corruption to enter in. No one doubts that this has occurred in the worst ways possible, and that it's become rotten from the top down...

And people are worried about what some Russian troll has to say, lol

Sep 03, 2019
Who says that a pure Democracy is a more perfect union???
Science says it:
"There are clear cases where you don't get polarization, such as when everyone shares their information, listens to everybody, has perfect memory, and perfectly takes in all new information" Singer says. "Everyone ends up knowing all things that anyone knows. In this situation, for unlimited agents, polarization totally goes away."
-- see: Polarization can happen even when rational people listen to each other

Sep 03, 2019
Proto science is assuming that we live in a perfect world with perfect citizens that all are willing to sacrifice for the good of society. You know what, all forms of government work well given these starting conditions. The problem is that some people know how to leverage the system to their advantage and become leaders. The masses are misinformed by their propaganda and a false agenda. They become unable to cast an informed vote. Were the Trump or Hillary voters truly "Informed", I think not. The Deep State is pulling all of the strings and most are just voting as they are per-programed to do.

Sep 03, 2019
These Disunited States
MR166> In some states like New York a pole worker cannot even ask for ID. Thus if you are on the rolls you can vote as anyone that you claim to be. There is only a signature check as verification. Also, NY has voted to give illegal aliens a drivers license. Voter registration rules in NY automatically register one to vote when a drivers license is issued. Thus non-citizens are given the ability to vote in New York in direct violation of federal law.

America and Great Britain are in all reality, one and the same
We have a common bond
American towns are named after English towns
As are Irish towns
And Scottish towns

With DNA Fingerprinting
There is now no excuse
For a person's identity to be unknown

Because once
An alien
Steps foot in these reception centres, without any identity
Immigration takes DNA Fingerprints
You get your social security number
Then your green card

From this moment on, you cannot hide, from Law Enforcement Officers

Sep 03, 2019
Electoral College and Proportional Representation

The Electoral College consists of 538 electors. A majority of 270 electoral votes is required to elect the President. Your state's entitled allotment of electors equals the number of members in its Congressional delegation: one for each member in the House of Representatives plus two for your Senators

Most states have a "winner-take-all" system that awards all electors to the winning presidential candidate. However, Maine and Nebraska each have a variation of "proportional representation
https://www.archi...out.html

p.s. I ask you, as you worry of reds under the dimpled ballot paper, and you have Proportional Representation, pity poor America you call hear Bradford's Ghost of Bolling Hall muttering in this dead of night
https://www.haunt...Hall.php

Sep 03, 2019
I'm only telling the truth about Torbjorn and his allergic reactions to what others have to say on the issues
Hes allergic to imbeciles who flood this site with sewage, just like everybody else.

Sep 03, 2019
you are free to leave physorg and find a site where everyone agrees with everyone else, and nobody has a different opinion.
Nobody will miss you, Whyde. There will always be someone else to take your place.

The great thing about physorg is that it affords everyone a chance to have his say on the topics
PHYSORG MODS

Surveillance_Egg_Unit is trying to destroy your site. She has been coming here for years under many sockpuppets to harass, demean, flood, vandalize, and otherwise post abominable ignorance.

BAN THIS POSTER please.

Sep 03, 2019
Meh. Julian Assange got co-opted as a Russian tool. I have some respect for Waters, but in this case he has been co-opted too. It's a shame.
"The narrative that Assange worked for or knowingly conspired with the Russian government is a hallucination of the demented Russia hysteria..."
I never said he "worked for or knowingly conspired" with the Russians; they showed Wikileaks the take from the DNC hack and it got published. That's all they ever needed or wanted from Wikileaks. Then the Reprehensibles went around shouting "Crooked Hilary" and we got Trump.

"Worked for or knowingly conspired" is a strawman argument.

You should think about it.

Sep 03, 2019
https://techcrunc...na-hack/

"new details in the 488-page redacted report released by the Justice Department on Thursday offered new insight into how the GRU operatives hacked. ...

Using credentials they stole along the way, the hackers broke into the networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee days later. By stealing the login details of a system administrator who had "unrestricted access" to the network, the hackers broke into 29 computers in the ensuing weeks, and more than 30 computers on the DNC."

That's the Mueller report. And that's why the Reprehensibles are all trying to smear it.

You gonna join up in smearing it?

Sep 03, 2019
Using credentials they stole along the way, the hackers broke into the networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee days later. By stealing the login details of a system administrator who had "unrestricted access" to the network, the hackers broke into 29 computers in the ensuing weeks, and more than 30 computers on the DNC."
This is from the CrowdStrike investigation, yes? See: FBI Never Saw CrowdStrike Unredacted or Final Report on Alleged Russian Hacking Because None was Produced

The whole affair is like 99% obfuscated smear to begin with, Da Schneib, where is there any truth to it whatsoever?

Sep 03, 2019
This is from the CrowdStrike investigation, yes?
No, it's from the Mueller report. Did you read the Tech Crunch article, or are you just knee-jerking again?

I suppose I should ask if you read the Mueller report, but that's a pretty long stretch for you given how little you seem to know.

Sep 03, 2019
Interesting to note that you are no longer arguing about Wikileaks, @Proto. Now you're trying to argue the DNC hack wasn't Russian.

Just sayin'.

Sep 03, 2019
Just for grins, so you can see how stupid this particular CrowdStrike conspiracy theory is,

https://www.polit...-1374057

Nope, the FBI did its own forensics. Extensively detailed. They knew of the hacks long before CrowdStrike was ever involved, and tried to warn the DNC and DCCC. They were ignored, and this turned out to be a strategic error.

Sep 03, 2019
Very simple: every post is accompanied by the nationality of the poster, or a statement that they have used an anonymizer and their nationality cannot be established. This will make it clear when someone is using bots to make posts through anonymizers to try to influence an election. No need for personal identities; just look at how many are from, say, Russia, and how the anonymous posts are trending.
says Schneib

I almost missed this one.
Schneib - You must have known by now that Russia is always trying to influence US elections. They have been doing it for decades, if not longer. This is what they DO, Schneib. It would be very strange if they didn't.
Just sayin'

Sep 05, 2019
Following up on my above comment, despite all of the Russian attempts at persuading the American citizen voters who go to the polls every 2 to 4 years, luckily previous generations of American voters each had a mind of their own and would not be persuaded to vote against their own conscience.
But in these times, and after tenured Socialist educators had their way with innocent American students through decades of their indoctrination into the Socialist cause, we have now come to a crossroads in American history, where the nation could go completely Leftist/Socialist and eventually full Communist - or this younger generation of new voters could wake up before its too late and they give away their freedom to the new slaveowners of the Democrat Party.
The young voters are conflicted and confused as to whom they should vote for: the older man of the Republican Party who has been so vilified in the Leftist Media, or the Socialist candidates who will take the nation down, Soviet style.

Sep 06, 2019
You can worry all you want about Russia tampering with our elections but the real threat to the US is Socialist professors and teachers tampering with the minds of our students. 20 years ago Bernie and AOC could not get elected to dog catcher but now they are being promoted by the media.

Sep 06, 2019
Bernie Sanders was elected in 1990. Has been ever since.

So, @MR, lie much?

Sep 07, 2019
I suppose I should ask if you read the Mueller report, but that's a pretty long stretch for you given how little you seem to know
"Mueller's Ignorance Of Fusion GPS Proves His Investigation Was A Sham
"I'm not familiar with that," the former special counsel responded. Taken aback by Mueller's ignorance, Chabot stressed, "It's not a trick question..."

"Gaetz's hearing questions focused on former British spy Christopher Steele's now-famous dossier despite Mueller stating with confidence the dossier "was not part of Russia's disinformation campaign." But Gaetz challenged Mueller to admit Steele lied in the dossier..."

"Robert Mueller helped Saudi Arabia cover up its role in 9/11 attacks: suit"

-There is nothing about mueller or any of the players from the FBI or the DOJ in this whole affair that can be trusted. It's all been a massive, horrific coverup of unimaginable breadth and depth.

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