Astronomers deliver first photo of black hole

Astronomers deliver first photo of black hole
Credit: NSF

Astronomers on Wednesday unveiled the first photo of a black hole, one of the star-devouring monsters scattered throughout the Universe and obscured by impenetrable shields of gravity.

The image of a dark core encircled by a flame-orange halo of white-hot plasma looks like any number of artists' renderings over the last 30 years.

But this time, it's the real deal.

"The history of science will be divided into the time before the image, and the time after the image," said Michael Kramer, director at the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy.

Carlos Moedas, European Commissioner for Research, Science and Innovation called the feat a "huge breakthrough for humanity."

The supermassive black hole immortalised by a far-flung network of radio telescopes is 50 million lightyears away at the centre of a galaxy known as M87.

"It's a distance that we could have barely imagined," Frederic Gueth, an astronomer at France's National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) and co-author of studies detailing the findings, told AFP.

Most speculation had centred on the other candidate targeted by the Event Horizon Telescope: Sagittarius A*, a closer but smaller black hole at the centre of our own galaxy, the Milky Way.

Locking down an image of M87's supermassive black hole at such distance is comparable to photographing a pebble on the Moon, the scientists said.

It was also very much a team effort.

"Instead of constructing a giant telescope that would collapse under its own weight, we combined many observatories," Michael Bremer, an astronomer at the Institute for Millimetric Radio Astronomy (IRAM) in Grenoble, told AFP.

Earth in a thimble

Over several days in April 2017, eight radio telescopes in Hawaii, Arizona, Spain, Mexico, Chile, and the South Pole zeroed in on Sag A* and M87.

Knitted together, they formed a virtual observatory some 12,000 kilometres across—roughly the diameter of Earth.

The Event Horizon Telescope (EHT) -- a planet-scale array of eight ground-based radio telescopes forged through international collaboration -- was designed to capture images of a black hole. Today, in coordinated press conferences across the globe, EHT researchers reveal that they have succeeded, unveiling the first direct visual evidence of a supermassive black hole and its shadow.For more multimedia, visit NSF.gov/blackhole, including text-free versions of all images. Credit: NSF

"The data is like an incomplete puzzle set," said team member Monika Moscibrodzka, an astronomer at Radboud University. "We only see pieces of the real true image, and then we have to fill in the gaps of the missing pieces."

In the end, M87 was more photogenic. Like a fidgety child, Sag A* was too "active" to capture a clear picture, the scientists said.

"What we see in the image is the shadow of the black hole's rim—known as the event horizon, or the point of no return—set against the luminous accretion disk," Gueth told AFP.

The unprecedented image—so often imagined in science and science fiction —- has been analysed in six studies co-authored by 200 experts from 60-odd institutions and published Wednesday in Astrophysical Journal Letters.

"I never thought that I would see a real one in my lifetime," said CNRS astrophysicist Jean-Pierre Luminet, author in 1979 of the first digital simulation of a black hole.

Coined in the mid-60s by US physicist John Archibald Wheeler, the term "black hole" refers to a point in space where matter is so compressed as to create a gravity field from which even light cannot escape.

The Event Horizon Telescope (EHT) -- a planet-scale array of eight ground-based radio telescopes forged through international collaboration -- was designed to capture images of a black hole. For more multimedia, visit NSF.gov/blackhole. Credit: NSF

The more mass, the bigger the hole. At the same scale of compression, Earth would fit inside a thimble.

A successful outcome depended in part on the vagaries of weather during the April 2017 observation period.

"For everything to work, we needed to have clear visibility at every (telescope) location worldwide", said IRAM scientist Pablo Torne, recalling collective tension, fatigue and, finally, relief.

'Hell of a Christmas present'

Torne was at the controls of the Pico Veleta telescope in Spain's Sierra Madre mountains.

After that, is was eight months of nail-biting while scientists at MIT Haystack Observatory in Massachusetts and the Max Planck Institute for Radio Astronomy in Bonn crunched the data.

The Event Horizon Telescope—a network of eight radio telescopes across the globe—gathered data to generate the first image of a
The Event Horizon Telescope—a network of eight radio telescopes across the globe—gathered data to generate the first image of a black hole some 50 million lightyears from Earth

The Universe is filled with electromagnetic "noise", and there was no guarantee M87's faint signals could be extracted from a mountain of data so voluminous it could not be delivered via the Internet.

There was at least one glitch.

"We were desperately waiting for the data from the South Pole Telescope, which—due to extreme weather conditions during the southern hemisphere winter—didn't arrive until six months later," recalled Helger Rottmann from the Max Planck Institute.

It arrived, to be precise, on December 23, 2017.

"When, a few hours later, we saw that everything was there, it was one hell of a Christmas present," Rottmann said.

It would take another year, however, to piece together the data into an image.

Coined in the mid-60s by American physicist John Archibald Wheeler, the term "black hole" refers to a point in space w
Coined in the mid-60s by American physicist John Archibald Wheeler, the term "black hole" refers to a point in space where matter is so compressed as to create a gravity field from which even light cannot escape

"To be absolutely sure, we did the work four times with four different teams," said Gueth.

Team scientists presenting the findings at a news conference in Brussels were visibly moved.

"We are looking at a region we have never looked at before, that we cannot really imagine being there," said Heino Falcke, chair of the EHT Science Council.

"It feels like looking at the gates of hell, at the end of space and time –- the event horizon, the point of no return."


Explore further

Black holes: picturing the heart of darkness

More information: PAPERS:

© 2019 AFP

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Apr 10, 2019
The proof is in the pudding !

Science wins again !

Whooohoo !

Apr 10, 2019
So after all the hype
all the dust
we
have the Picci
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it!

Apr 10, 2019
Through this dust
this Picci glows through
not 25,000 miles hence
now
the serious work begins
as in
out side Blackhole exterior
through this veil of dust
to Blackholes accretion disc
because
without this highly visible accretion disc, Blackhole hath no substance
as
the excuses are over
for to see Blackhole
Removes this dusty excuse of Blackholes invisible accretion disc
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it!


Idiot.


Apr 10, 2019
So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it!


And you have a Phd in which subject of physics ?

Apr 10, 2019
This Blackhole ball of plasma

Oh, the anticlimax
cantdrive85> So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it!

It had to be
it could only be
for
in this vacuum
this vacuous vacuum
there is only one entity that exists
in this starry galactic vacuum
Plasma!
because as these stars are made of plasma
Blackhole feasts on plasma
just as Blackholes Picci screams of plasma
Blackhole, in all reality is a ball of plasma!

Apr 10, 2019
So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it!


And you have a Phd in which subject of physics ?


Velikovskian woo.

Apr 10, 2019
Sag A's accretion disk and photosphere(warped spacetime) is too intense to image; well, a little more practice!

Apr 10, 2019
Blackhole, in all reality is a ball of plasma!


When are you going to stop making a complete fool of yourself? Go away. Get an education.

Apr 10, 2019
Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...

Apr 10, 2019
Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...


Who cares? Neither of them understand Jack about the relevant science! Nor any other science, as far as I can see.

Apr 10, 2019
Lay your bets, Whydening Gyre
Whydening Gyre> ]Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...

Which is your bookies favourite, Whydening Gyre


Apr 10, 2019
Here is the main paper regarding the observation;

First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The Shadow of the Supermassive Black Hole
The EHT Collaboration
https://iopscienc...3/ab0ec7

The rest of the papers can be accessed here, as previously linked;

https://iopscienc...041-8205

Apr 10, 2019
Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...


Who fucking cares?

Apr 10, 2019
Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...

Whataya talkin' bout, I think the image of the torodial plasmoid looks great! Couldn't have expected more.

Apr 10, 2019
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your famous brand glazed donut.


Apr 10, 2019
We are not interested primarily in M87
Only Sagittarius A*
as
it is only 25,000Lys hence
Therefore verifiable

Apr 10, 2019
They forgot the caption -- Taken with a Samsung Galaxy S9+.

Apr 10, 2019
Nice photo of the Black Hole at M87. I thought that they were going to present Sgr A* which is closer to Earth.

Apr 10, 2019
Whoop D f'n do... who cares!, now lets get to work on getting there

Apr 10, 2019
Well, ya gotta wonder if this pic will be good enough to satisfy Benni's criteria...
It obviously hasn't met CD's...

Whataya talkin' bout, I think the image of the torodial plasmoid looks great! Couldn't have expected more.


Idiot^2.

Apr 10, 2019
Sag A's accretion disk and photosphere(warped spacetime) is too intense to image; well, a little more practice!
says fg

And a few more Earth-based telescopes. Followed by expensive future space telescopes. Someone briefly mentioned "taxpayers".

Apr 10, 2019
Lest we forget, there is certainly more to come. When questioned about Sgr A*, one of the scientists (possibly Falke), said the from the raw data, it was obvious that they had a great image from M87*, so concentrated on that. Evidently SgrA* was jittering, that is, it was moving about the sky a bit, as far as I could make out. However, they will now concentrate on seeing what they can get from that data.
Also, this was from the 2017 run, and the 2018 run, with more telescopes, has now finished. And I assume the 2019 run is under way, or will be shortly. This is not a one hit deal. They will keep getting better and better images.
And the cranks will keep making stuff up to preserve their quasi-religious dogma in their own minds, if nowhere else.

Apr 10, 2019
Whoop D f'n do... who cares!, now lets get to work on getting there


This comment makes no sense whatsoever.

Apr 10, 2019
Each team came up with exactly the same spectacular, history-making picture of a dark circle encased in a flaming-red halo.

So is the dark circle completely black or simply rather grey? Inquiring minds want to know. Merger maniacs don't even consider.

Apr 10, 2019
I was impressed with the size of the Black Hole being only 1 1/2 light DAYS across, in spite of it being 4 million solar masses. I suppose that it is only the Density that is 4msm, but its actual size is small. I assume that it was M87 being referred to for these figures, not SgrA*.
I was also baffled as to how Einstein came up with his equations for GR/SR while working at a patent office when he was said to have been failing in math as a student. (I assume in high school). Perhaps a tutor was hired to help him.

Apr 10, 2019
Each team came up with exactly the same spectacular, history-making picture of a dark circle encased in a flaming-red halo.

So is the dark circle completely black or simply rather grey? Inquiring minds want to know. Merger maniacs don't even consider.


Errrm, what is the definition of an event horizon? Have a think about that, and you may have the answer to your own silly question.

Apr 10, 2019
I'd be interested to know if any of the sciencey types on here have ever heard it proposed that a planet, star and even black hole has a void at its core. It's an idea that occurred to me a couple of years ago.

The reason that a void might exist at the core of heavenly bodies is that all the mass at the core is 'overhead', rather than 'underneath'. Since mass causes gravity, it seems at least plausible that the upward pull at the core would result in a void.

Apr 10, 2019
So after all the hype
all the dust
we
have the Picci
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg


And a blurred one, at that. But M87 is much further away in Cygnus, so that they couldn't help it.
It doesn't appear to me to be a "shadow" or "silhouette".

Apr 10, 2019
Some of the comments remind me of the old Bible-Science Newsletters, into the mid-90's still claiming the evidence for the existence of exoplanets was circumstantial, defective, overblown, unscientific, unfalsifiable, faked, shaky, merely-evidence-of-godless-atheistic-scientism by people still in denial of the overwhelming global evidence of The Great Flood, that Adam and Even rode dinosaurs...

Nope, that pic looks just about what I would have expected: an area in a galaxy that by all that can be named in science OUGHT to be a sensor-saturating blaze of light right down to the center of the image and more so in the center than the periphery. It's just the opposite. It is virtually... BLACK.

Apr 10, 2019
And a blurred one, at that. But M87 is much further away in Cygnus, so that they couldn't help it.
It doesn't appear to me to be a "shadow" or "silhouette".


Frankly, it doesn't really matter what it does, or doesn't, look like to you.

The paper I linked upthread is entitled;

First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The ***Shadow*** of the Supermassive Black Hole

Good enough for me.

Apr 10, 2019
Blackholes Black Canvas

Well
you asked for it
and
you got it!
Blackholes black canvas
a black circle on a black canvas
the ting of orange is not from blackhole
as that is the light falling through Blackholes photon sphere
as
Blackholes Picci
is the black circle in the middle of this black canvas
so
there we have it
in all its glory
Blackholes Black Canvas, - no wiser than yesterday, because we knew all this yesterday
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
But M87 is much further away in Cygnus...


Virgo.

Apr 10, 2019
The reason that a void might exist at the core of heavenly bodies is that all the mass at the core is 'overhead', rather than 'underneath'. Since mass causes gravity, it seems at least plausible that the upward pull at the core would result in a void.
The gravitational 'pull' of a body is the integrated sum of all the individual pulls of its parts, which is centered at... the center. We/it cannot arbitrarily segregate the outside-matter's pull from the inside's.

Let's try an analogy-gedankenexperiment: we arrange a 1-D model 'gravitational' system of magnets, ten of them in a line, suspended from long strings, all situated north to south ends, and separated by 1 millimeter. Picture what happens: Will they pull away from the center in two strings of connected magnets? Or all pull to the center?

If they pull away from the center, I swear I'll EAT one of them.

Apr 10, 2019
the ting of orange is not from blackhole
as that is the light falling through Blackholes photon sphere


Wrong. Just give up, yes?

Apr 10, 2019
But M87 is much further away in Cygnus...


Virgo.


Correction appreciated. I had meant to type Virgo

Apr 10, 2019
Dear jonesy
the ting of orange is not from blackhole
as that is the light falling through Blackholes photon sphere


jonesy> Wrong. Just give up, yes?

You missed the video last night

Apr 10, 2019

I was also baffled as to how Einstein came up with his equations for GR/SR while working at a patent office when he was said to have been failing in math as a student. (I assume in high school). Perhaps a tutor was hired to help him.


@StupidEgg
You don't know basic maths, but it's obvious now your history is equally bad.

Einstein never failed maths, educate yourself.

Apr 10, 2019
SEU, these dusty excuses are over!

As now
the serious work begins
as in
outside Blackhole exterior
through this veil of dust
to Blackholes accretion disc
because
without this highly visible accretion disc, Blackhole hath no substance
as
the excuses are over
for to see Blackhole
Removes this dusty excuse of Blackholes invisible accretion disc

Apr 10, 2019
& you all make fun of me for being a devotee of The Coyote Trickster Goddess!

that She is being mischievous by showing us where she keeps Sauron's Ring.

Now consider all the turmoil stampeding the looneytick sheeple into denying observable data.

The woomongering anti-science trollbots,
Will refuse "To ever look through the telescope eyepiece".
Forever insisting that their ouiija boards are all they need to affirm their cant & dogma!

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

Trickster Coyote Goddess has trapped the deniers of Modern Science in the Pit of Ignorance.
Where Gravity Rules.


Apr 10, 2019
And a blurred one, at that. But M87 is much further away in Cygnus, so that they couldn't help it.
It doesn't appear to me to be a "shadow" or "silhouette".


Frankly, it doesn't really matter what it does, or doesn't, look like to you.

The paper I linked upthread is entitled;

First M87 Event Horizon Telescope Results. I. The ***Shadow*** of the Supermassive Black Hole

Good enough for me.
says Castrato

What the photo of M87 looks like to me is that of a full-on image, in spite of the image being blurred, as though the image came into view and the array was downloading the image head-on and not from the side or overhead. Similar to looking at a spiral galaxy as a full-on image rather than elliptical where the centre can't be seen.

Apr 10, 2019
More impenetrable word salad from Granville. 'Twas ever thus.

Apr 10, 2019


@StupidEgg
You don't know basic maths, but it's obvious now your history is equally bad.

Einstein never failed maths, educate yourself.
He was phenomenal at math and science, poor some other subjects:
"In 1895, he sat the entrance examinations to get into the prestigious Federal Polytechnic School (or Academy) in Zurich, Switzerland. He was 16, two years younger than his fellow applicants. He did outstandingly well in physics and mathematics, but failed the non-science subjects, doing especially badly in French - so he was not accepted. So in that same year, he continued his studies at the Canton school in Aargau (also called Aarau). He studied well, and this time, he passed the entry exams into the Federal Polytechnic School.

So the next year, he finally started studying at the Federal Polytechnic in Zurich (...now one year younger than most of his fellow students). Also in the year 1896, even though he was only 16 years old, he wrote a brilliant..." abc.net.au

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs as more telescopes are added.

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs.......

Oh Da Schitts. Soiling the forum with, what the Hairy Biker said when you bent over?

LMAO.

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs as more telescopes are added.


Detail will come from a wider baseline: orbiting telescopes. More telescopes gather more light, but that image is easily bright enough for me.

Apr 10, 2019
Dear jonesy
the ting of orange is not from blackhole
as that is the light falling through Blackholes photon sphere


jonesy> Wrong. Just give up, yes?

Apart from the fact you missed the video last night
are you saying
this orange ting
is emanating
from within Blackhole
because
if you have any doubts
we have on our door step
not 25,000Lyrs hence
A four million black hole for your perusal

Apr 10, 2019

I was also baffled as to how Einstein came up with his equations for GR/SR while working at a patent office when he was said to have been failing in math as a student. (I assume in high school). Perhaps a tutor was hired to help him.


@StupidEgg
You don't know basic maths, but it's obvious now your history is equally bad.

Einstein never failed maths, educate yourself.


I never said that he FAILED math, I said that he was FAILING in math. Do you not understand the difference in the 2 concepts? And how do you KNOW what I know about any kind of math? Are you a mind reading alien? You are only being presumptuous, little boy. You should never PRESUME anything about someone else.

Apr 10, 2019

Apart from the fact you missed the video last night
are you saying
this orange ting
is emanating
from within Blackhole
because
if you have any doubts
we have on our door step
not 25,000Lyrs hence
A four million black hole for your perusal


What video last night? Am I psychic? And the term 'photon sphere' has a specific meaning. And we see light from more than just the photon sphere.

Apr 10, 2019


@StupidEgg
You don't know basic maths, but it's obvious now your history is equally bad.

Einstein never failed maths, educate yourself.
He was phenomenal at math and science, poor some other subjects:
"In 1895, he sat the entrance examinations to get into the prestigious Federal Polytechnic School (or Academy) in Zurich, Switzerland. He was 16, two years younger than his fellow applicants. He did outstandingly well in physics and mathematics, but failed the non-science subjects, doing especially badly in French - so he was not accepted. So in that same year, he continued his studies at the Canton school in Aargau (also called Aarau). He studied well, and this time, he passed the entry exams into the Federal Polytechnic School.

, he wrote a brilliant..." abc.net.au
says danR

I will take your word for it, danR, although I had read something different about Einstein's math prowess many years ago. His biography may have been revised in later years.

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?

Apr 10, 2019
I never said that he FAILED math, I said that he was FAILING in math. Do you not understand the difference in the 2 concepts?
No you said he was SAID to have been failing, but all these things are distinctions that don't make a difference. Einstein was brilliant at math from the get-go. He started teaching himself calculus at the age of 12.

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs.......

Oh Da Schitts. Soiling the forum with, what the Hairy Biker said when you bent over?

LMAO.


You're talking to wrong person, Da Schneib isn't gay, so I will tell you how it goes.

Usually the Hairy Biker complements my arse. The compliments will vary.

You should probably try it, as the homo in you obviously wants to get out and have some man on man action. You should go for it, maybe you finally experience sex and a connection with another human being. :)

Apr 10, 2019
We have a picture (for naive and blind people).

Let's look at the real size:
- Supermassive black hole ø 0.001–400 AU
- Galactic Center Milky Way ø 3000 -16000 ly or 1.890566e+8 - 1.008302e+9 AU (10 ^8 to 10^9 AU)

- 1 ly = 63019 AU;
- 400 AU = 0,00635 ly;

Set the ratio 0.00635 ly (400 AU) as opposed to 3000 to 16000 ly.

Now look at the picture and find who's the idiot who believes in the published picture (photo of a black hole)?

Apr 10, 2019
Now the origin
of this orange tinge
which only emerged
this last week
its explained origin is now up in the air again
so far we have a black circle encircled by an orange ting
awaiting
A further explanation, than this informative video from last night

Apr 10, 2019
I will take your word for it, danR, although I had read something different about Einstein's math prowess many years ago. His biography may have been revised in later years.
Here's what happened: the schools flipped the system of 1 to 6 grade around, and biographers that missed that tiny easy-to-miss historical factoid found his grade of '1' to indicate pathetic failure. It was, in fact, the best grade you could get.

Apr 10, 2019
I never said that he FAILED math, I said that he was FAILING in math. Do you not understand the difference in the 2 concepts?
No you said he was SAID to have been failing, but all these things are distinctions that don't make a difference. Einstein was brilliant at math from the get-go. He started teaching himself calculus at the age of 12.


StupidEgg has a lot of issues in understanding anything. For the most part he doesn't really understand the gibberish he posts here, the English language is just one of the many subjects that are incomprehensible to him. :)

Apr 10, 2019
@SEU

3 + 2/2 = ?

Apr 10, 2019
For those not awake at this witching hour
the witching hour of informative video's
if 40winks could not wait
while witch's broomsticking in this crescent moon
the magic on this witching hour
only to those who with Blackholes magic spells
to those in the loop of these Cambridge Shire's of the magic that was on this witching night
In the crescent moon, a rare privilege to those in the loop

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?


I figure this is why we'll never get a shot of Sag A from Earth, due to the fact that there is too much stuff in the way within the orbital plane. This M87 image must be angled in a top down galactic view.

Apr 10, 2019
Einstein enlisted the help of many mathematicians, the most famous, perhaps, being Enrico Fermi. This is a Guardian article which suggests that he wasn't a maths genius.

https://www.thegu...research

Apr 10, 2019
As to demonstrate those not in tune of this witching night
in this crescent moon
jimmybobber, from a whence he came with his familiar 3 + 2/2 = ?
exemplifies, those who do not frequent these Shires
Those who no longer retain those tenuous links of being in the loop

Apr 10, 2019
I never said that he FAILED math, I said that he was FAILING in math. Do you not understand the difference in the 2 concepts?
No you said he was SAID to have been failing, but all these things are distinctions that don't make a difference. Einstein was brilliant at math from the get-go. He started teaching himself calculus at the age of 12.


StupidEgg has a lot of issues in understanding anything. For the most part he doesn't really understand the gibberish he posts here, the English language is just one of the many subjects that are incomprehensible to him. :)


I'm pretty sure that he was just vomiting back a stupid meme that's circulated around the net for years. Einstein failed math, you see, so every moron who thinks he's actually pretty smart but is just having temporary trouble grasping difficult material can feel good about himself. Most likely that's where SEU's coming from.

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs.......

Oh Da Schitts. Soiling the forum with, what the Hairy Biker said when you bent over?

LMAO.


ROFLOL Now you've gotten kl31415 (the self-described gay man) all excited over the thought of Da Scheibo and his hairy biker.
:)

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?


I figure this is why we'll never get a shot of Sag A from Earth, due to the fact that there is too much stuff in the way within the orbital plane. This M87 image must be angled in a top down galactic view.


Instead of "figuring," why don't you go ahead and explore a little and learn why the Sag A* image isn't ready yet? The answer's already available -- given at the US press conference -- just not to Mister Figures Instead of Investigating.

Apr 10, 2019
It's a lot like a fuzzy lensing ring, one with anti-symmetry in brightness between the upper half and the lower half.

Apr 10, 2019
Jonesy, to ask is not to ask

Apart from the fact you missed the video last night
are you saying
this orange ting
is emanating
from within Blackhole
because
if you have any doubts
we have on our door step
not 25,000Lyrs hence
A four million black hole for your perusal


Jonesy> What video last night? Am I psychic? And the term 'photon sphere' has a specific meaning. And we see light from more than just the photon sphere.

Everyone has this psychic within jonesy
this witching art is to know yours spells in how to ask
while
Not appearing to ask, dear jonesy, then old bean you become one with this magic of this loop

Apr 10, 2019
Now look at the picture and find who's the idiot who believes in the published picture (photo of a black hole)?


What the hell has this clown been smoking?

Apr 10, 2019
Apart from the fact you missed the video last night


What video, you idiot? And the rest of your post makes as much sense as usual - none. Learn to write in English.

Apr 10, 2019
Why do you think they chose orange to color the image? Also, if a black hole is a dense sphere, wouldn't the event horizon/accretion disc actually be spherical? If that is true, this image would be more like a cross-section than a photo. If the accretion disk is truly a flat disc or donut shape, was it just luck that the ring was facing earth at this angle and showed as a circle rather than as elliptical or even on edge as a line?

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?


I figure this is why we'll never get a shot of Sag A from Earth, due to the fact that there is too much stuff in the way within the orbital plane. This M87 image must be angled in a top down galactic view.


Instead of "figuring," why don't you go ahead and explore a little and learn why the Sag A* image isn't ready yet? The answer's already available -- given at the US press conference -- just not to Mister Figures Instead of Investigating.
says wailikaloo

Since you already KNOW that answer, why don't you just submit it in here so that we all may be impressed with your vast knowledge of science which we somehow have missed.

Apr 10, 2019
As on this witching crescent moon
on this Blackhole night
this jonesy has burnt his bridges
no longer
does jonesy retain that tenuous link
as
jonesy is simply to remain an embittered commentator on a comment section!
ah, well
A sad end to jonesy's invitation to these magic's of these Shires

Apr 10, 2019
^^^Idiot. I asked you which video you were talking about. How about answering you clown?

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?


I figure this is why we'll never get a shot of Sag A from Earth, due to the fact that there is too much stuff in the way within the orbital plane. This M87 image must be angled in a top down galactic view.


Instead of "figuring," why don't you go ahead and explore a little and learn why the Sag A* image isn't ready yet? The answer's already available -- given at the US press conference -- just not to Mister Figures Instead of Investigating.
says wailikaloo

Since you already KNOW that answer, why don't you just submit it in here so that we all may be impressed with your vast knowledge of science which we somehow have missed.


I simply had to listen -- as you should have, but didn't. Do your own work, dumb shit.

Apr 10, 2019
Apart from the fact you missed the video last night


What video, you idiot? And the rest of your post makes as much sense as usual - none. Learn to write in English.
says Castrato

Do learn to separate your misgivings about someone else's science knowledge, from your failure to comprehend the original English of the Shires. Perhaps you should take a subject on English verbiage to help your comprehension of British English far better than you exhibit in these physorg phorums. You are no true Englishman for your utter lack of comprehension. Perhaps you were raised in Zimbabwe?

Apr 10, 2019
@mind, the black hole is a dense *spinning* sphere, which means it is frame dragging the space around its equator. This in turn drags the infalling dust and gas into an accretion disk, rather than a sphere.

Yes, it's luck that the axis of the black hole is pointing nearly at us.

Apr 10, 2019
I never said that he FAILED math, I said that he was FAILING in math. Do you not understand the difference in the 2 concepts?
No you said he was SAID to have been failing, but all these things are distinctions that don't make a difference. Einstein was brilliant at math from the get-go. He started teaching himself calculus at the age of 12.


StupidEgg has a lot of issues in understanding anything. For the most part he doesn't really understand the gibberish he posts here, the English language is just one of the many subjects that are incomprehensible to him. :)

LOL

Apr 10, 2019
what if the black hole was sitting at a different angle to earth , would we have seen it ?


I figure this is why we'll never get a shot of Sag A from Earth, due to the fact that...


Instead of "figuring," why don't you go ahead and explore a little and learn why the Sag A* image isn't ready yet? The answer's already available -- given at the US press conference -- just not to Mister Figures Instead of Investigating.
says wailikaloo

Since you already KNOW that answer, why don't you just submit it in here so that we all may be impressed with your vast knowledge of science which we somehow have missed.


I simply had to listen -- as you should have, but didn't. Do your own work, dumb shit.
says dumb shit walikaloo

Personally, I listened to the whole thing and understood. But since you are unwilling to SHARE with others here in a most uncooperative and hostile way what you have learnt, I presume that you are lying.

Apr 10, 2019
Not bad. And about what one would expect: a ring of hot gas and dust surrounding a black spot.

We'll get more detail from later runs.......

Oh Da Schitts. Soiling the forum with, what the Hairy Biker said when you bent over?

LMAO.


ROFLOL Now you've gotten kl31415 (the self-described gay man) all excited over the thought of Da Scheibo and his hairy biker.
:)


antiscience hairy gorilla getting it on with his own hairy sockpuppet, i don't even think there is a definition for something like that... RFLMAO

Apr 10, 2019


Personally, I listened to the whole thing and understood. But since you are unwilling to SHARE with others here in a most uncooperative and hostile way what you have learnt, I presume that you are lying.

No you listened to the whole thing and Bingo ! It registered big golden bananas...once Again inside that Pea... Bananas don't lie to antisciencegorilla and his sockpuppets aka YOU... You go boonie ! LMAO

Apr 10, 2019
Jonesy, to ask is not to ask

Apart from the fact you missed the video last night
are you saying
this orange ting
is emanating
from within Blackhole
because
if you have any doubts
we have on our door step
not 25,000Lyrs hence
A four million black hole for your perusal


Jonesy> What video last night? Am I psychic? And the term 'photon sphere' has a specific meaning. And we see light from more than just the photon sphere.

Everyone has this psychic within jonesy
this witching art is to know yours spells in how to ask
while
Not appearing to ask, dear jonesy, then old bean you become one with this magic of this loop
says granville

Your admonishments fall on deaf eyes, granville. The jonesy who knows nothing of original British English is all at sea with your conceptualisations, for he has been raised by his ape DNA to not comprehend that which has been lost to him in the wilds/slums of (I assume) Wellington.

Apr 10, 2019
Do learn to separate your misgivings about someone else's science knowledge, from your failure to comprehend the original English of the Shires. Perhaps you should take a subject on English verbiage to help your comprehension of British English far better than you exhibit in these physorg phorums. You are no true Englishman for your utter lack of comprehension. Perhaps you were raised in Zimbabwe?


Sod off, thicko. Granville makes no sense in any sort of English. Even the sort I learned in England.

Apr 10, 2019
Jonesy, to ask is not to ask

Apart from the fact you missed the video last night
are you saying
this orange ting
is emanating
from within Blackhole
because
if you have any doubts
we have on our door step
not 25,000Lyrs hence
A four million black hole for your perusal


Jonesy> What video last night? Am I psychic? And the term 'photon sphere' has a specific meaning. And we see light from more than just the photon sphere.

Everyone has this psychic within jonesy
this witching art is to know yours spells in how to ask
while
Not appearing to ask, dear jonesy, then old bean you become one with this magic of this loop
says granville

Your admonishments fall on deaf eyes, granville.

Deaf Eyes ? Double Lol, monkey antigoracle got slapped by his own sockpuppets one too many times it seems ;)

Apr 10, 2019


Personally, I listened to the whole thing and understood. But since you are unwilling to SHARE with others here in a most uncooperative and hostile way what you have learnt, I presume that you are lying.

No you listened to the whole thing and Bingo ! It registered big golden bananas...once Again inside that Pea... Bananas don't lie to antisciencegorilla and his sockpuppets aka YOU... You go boonie ! LMAO
says green gnome

AHAA So Helomenelo is here in the guise of a greengoo. Yet another sockpoopie. There are also 5 sox that I noticed had all gotten a physorg account ON THE SAME DAY in 2017. Da Schniebo and his cohorts have certainly been made busy trying to remember which of their sox to use on any given day while not adding anything of value in these phorums.
Such a shame and a waste of physorg's bandwidth.

Apr 10, 2019
"The image of a dark core encircled by a flame-orange halo of white-hot plasma.."

Why is a white hot plasma orange?

Apr 10, 2019
It's orange because that's the color they chose to interpolate the radio waves to.

Apr 10, 2019
@mind, the black hole is a dense *spinning* sphere, which means it is frame dragging the space around its equator. This in turn drags the infalling dust and gas into an accretion disk, rather than a sphere.

Yes, it's luck that the axis of the black hole is pointing nearly at us.

There you go again, Da Schitts, soiling the forum with the shite between your ears.
The image does NOT show the accretion disk.
The axis of the black hole is NOT pointing nearly at us.

Apr 10, 2019
Do learn to separate your misgivings about someone else's science knowledge, from your failure to comprehend the original English of the Shires. Perhaps you should take a subject on English verbiage to help your comprehension of British English far better than you exhibit in these physorg phorums. You are no true Englishman for your utter lack of comprehension. Perhaps you were raised in Zimbabwe?


Sod off, thicko. Granville makes no sense in any sort of English. Even the sort I learned in England.
says Castrato

LOL I see that you have been voted +4 from the sockpoopies. Or perhaps a few are your buds from N.Z.? You likely evolved in Liverpool and learnt the Liverpudlian English there, which you have presented here in these phorums, while thinking that Liverpool English is too fab for words. LOL

Apr 10, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Apr 10, 2019
Personally, I listened to the whole thing and understood. But since you are unwilling to SHARE with others here in a most uncooperative and hostile way what you have learnt, I presume that you are lying.

No you listened to the whole thing and Bingo ! It registered big golden bananas...once Again inside that Pea... Bananas don't lie to antisciencegorilla and his sockpuppets aka YOU... You go boonie ! LMAO

says green gnome

AHAA So Helomenelo is here in the guise of a greengoo. Yet another sockpoopie. There are also 5 sox that I noticed had all gotten a physorg account ON THE SAME DAY in 2017. Da Schni


Naa we log in with ourselves, but monkey goracle always seem to haggle it out with his own socks on a daily basis, i think you're trailing 78 socks now in total ? Keep 'em coming, we got the bananas for you ;)

Apr 10, 2019
Finally got home and worked my way through two of the conferences. Man, that's some good stuff.
Found it really neat that in both discussions scientists pointed out that things look as expected but whish it hadn't.

If the accretion disk is truly a flat disc

In the conference they noted that the accretion disk appears to be a lot thicker than is usually depicted in movies.

Why do you think they chose orange to color the image?

I thik the image is taken in the radio spectrum (i.e. it's a false color image). That's just the standard way to map the frequencies to colors.

Apr 10, 2019
SEU
It was thought just this once
as
Blackhole was making his debut in the limelight
but
on this Blackhole night
this jonesy has burnt his bridges
no longer
does jonesy retain that tenuous link
as
jonesy is simply to remain an embittered commentator on a comment section
ah, well
A sad end to jonesy's invitation to these magic's of these Shires

SEU
This was a rare moment for jonesy, an embittered commentator on a comment section
as rare as another blackhole debut
I remember jonesy's first cry on a comment section
involving breaking grappling hooks on a comet as hard as nails
Jonesy is still breaking his grappling hooks!

Apr 10, 2019
..so, all that black around this black hole is the black hole that this black hole is in? But seriously, this same image would be appear if I were anywhere else in the galaxy.. still qualifies for just a halo. One sees less the more one's direct line of sight to this kind of phenomenon. That's why the dark center.

Apr 10, 2019
@mind, the black hole is a dense *spinning* sphere, which means it is frame dragging the space around its equator. This in turn drags the infalling dust and gas into an accretion disk, rather than a sphere.

Yes, it's luck that the axis of the black hole is pointing nearly at us.

There you go again, Da Schitts, soiling the forum with the shite between your ears.
The image does NOT show the accretion disk.
The axis of the black hole is NOT pointing nearly at us.


i think the science once again, made that pea overwork by a factor of 95 yet again LOL

Apr 10, 2019
Cool pic.

Apr 10, 2019
But seriously, this same image would be appear if I were anywhere else in the galaxy.

Erm..whut?

still qualifies for just a halo

Erm...did you even look at the image? apparently not.
Or are you saying you want to see light where no light can be? And only if you see light emanating from something from which no light can emanate you will accept it as an image of that thing? Really? Is that your reasoning? I mean...really?

One sees less the more one's direct line of sight to this kind of phenomenon

Erm...whut?

Apr 10, 2019
Cool pic.
says JaxPavan

I agree. And I thought that it would be a lot dustier than is shown. Perhaps they used their Imaging Algorithms on M87 as was supposedly to be used on SgrA*. But they couldn't get rid of the fuzziness in the pic.
Impatiently awaiting the results of SgrA here.

Apr 10, 2019
Just a quick question. I haven't seen the video, still at work. Why did it take petraflops or whatever of data to produce this fuzzy image? I'd it actually a real image or an assumption?

Apr 10, 2019
Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary.

Apr 10, 2019
Is it, I meant. Sorry

Apr 10, 2019
Sag A is too active - this is the highlight - this is where some new physics could be coming into play. Why is it "too active?"

Is Sag A spinning too fast? i doubt it. I'm thinking the gravitational energy of the black hole is buzzing the local spacetime photosphere. It's bluring the image. You'll need to use a strobelight technique to image the photosphere, if not the Event horizon itself.

Apr 10, 2019
When we have exhausted are distant Blackhole cousins
we will return to our close cousin
for
to remove all the dust of obfuscation
and reveal in glorious multicolour
in close up
our very own Blackhole
the Picci
which will look
no different to our distant cousins
in fact it will look so identical
you will think your viewing Blackholes Picci
as there is one and one only
but do not tell, as everyone will want one
so till we make a copy for Sagittarius A*
The Picci
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
Why did it take petraflops or whatever of data to produce this fuzzy image?

It's a real image taken by several telescopes strewn accross the globe to act as one big telescope.
This means you get parts that are fitted together based on positioning and timing data and the rest filled in.

As for the petabytes of data: They pointed all telescopes it at M87 for 3 solid days

Why (and how) the data is collapsed to an image with a few kilobytes is explained in this part of the press conference (jump to time index 18:05)
https://www.youtu...i0Jy692w

Apr 10, 2019
Personally, I listened to the whole thing and understood. But since you are unwilling to SHARE with others here in a most uncooperative and hostile way what you have learnt, I presume that you are lying.

No you listened to the whole thing and Bingo ! It registered big golden bananas...once Again inside that Pea... Bananas don't lie to antisciencegorilla and his sockpuppets aka YOU... You go boonie ! LMAO

says green gnome

AHAA So Helomenelo is here in the guise of a greengoo. Yet another sockpoopie. Da Schni


Naa we log in with ourselves, but monkey goracle always seem to haggle it out with his own socks on a daily basis, i think you're trailing 78 socks now in total ? Keep 'em coming, we got the bananas for you ;)
says green gnome

There may be 78 sox of various accounts trolling me for whatever purpose. A few are Da Schneibo's own sox that he talks to to shore himself up.
I don't have any sox although being accused of it. Don't need them.

Apr 10, 2019
Is Sag A spinning too fast?

Yes, it looks like stuff is spinning about 1000 times faster at Sag A* than with M87.

he gravitational energy of the black hole is buzzing the local spacetime photosphere

Erm...whut?

You'll need to use a strobelight technique to image the photosphere

Erm...whut?

Note: The photonsphere is a *mathematical* construct (of a NON-ROTATING black hole. M87 - and every other BH are rotating black holes, so they don't have photonspheres anyhow)
Even if there were a non-rotating black hole there would be no (or very few) photons in the photonsphere

Apr 10, 2019
Just a quick question. I haven't seen the video, still at work. Why did it take petraflops or whatever of data to produce this fuzzy image? I'd it actually a real image or an assumption?
Petabytes, which are 10^15 bytes, or 1000 terabytes.

It took that much data because of the field of view of the EHT and the number of telescopes.

It's a real image, in radio waves (technically microwaves, at 1.3mm wavelength IIRC). Just like radar, except there's no transmitter, only receivers. The image is as real as the images on a radar set.

Apr 10, 2019
Just wanted to add: Higgs, gravitational waves, and now black holes. The past few years have been very good to us.

Apr 10, 2019
Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary.

Precisely, and that makes me question their hypothesis and conclusions.

Apr 10, 2019
I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime. I did expect to see the discovery of the Higgs and the detection of gravity waves.

Apr 10, 2019
As for the petabytes of data

Thanks antialias_physorg
for reminding one and all to check this JPG
5caded214d11e.jpg 5.8KB

Apr 10, 2019
Billions are viewing this Picci, 5caded214d11e.jpg
and it will not enlarge
it is no bigger than your thumb
it is an embarrassment to describe it as an embarrassment
there are adequate petabytes of data
to give a full resolution Picci
You would be proud to hang Picci on your wall

Apr 10, 2019
When we have exhausted are distant Blackhole cousins
we will return to our close cousin
for
to remove all the dust of obfuscation
and reveal in glorious multicolour
in close up
our very own Blackhole
the Picci
which will look
no different to our distant cousins
in fact it will look so identical
you will think your viewing Blackholes Picci
as there is one and one only
but do not tell, as everyone will want one
so till we make a copy for Sagittarius A*
The Picci
https://3c1703fe8...d11e.jpg


If you copy it, make sure to specify that it is M87 in Virgo

Apr 10, 2019
Lobes
Did anyone hear an explanation of the appearance of the lobes visible in the published image? I only caught part of the Q&A.
(Visible most prominently at at eleven o'clock and four o'clock positions, and to lesser degree at three and nine)
Do these type of observations generate "lense flare"?
Since they winnowed down so much data to generate this picture I have to presume it is valid observed data, as any 'noise effects'(e.g.) would have been filtered out prior to publication.
So what are those photons? Is it just a wider area of the disc (from a resent large meal perhaps? Part of some other jets as yet not understood?
And why this particular orientation /symmetry?
Have a look and see what you think
Thanks

Apr 10, 2019
Lies! it's all lies, I tell you! That is NOT a picture of a black hole. That is a picture of the activity SURROUNDING a black hole! You people need to get your science right!

Apr 10, 2019
So now SEU
We are labelling identical copies
one for M87 in Virgo
one for the Milkyway in Sagittarius A*
one for …..
we just have to make sure they do not get mixed up

Apr 10, 2019

There may be 78 sox of various accounts trolling me for whatever purpose. A few are Da Schneibo's own sox that he talks to to shore himself up.
I don't have any sox although being accused of it. Don't need them.

Keep fooling yourself you don't... we Know you do ;)

Apr 10, 2019
Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary.

Precisely, and that makes me question their hypothesis and conclusions.

The only thing you aren't questioning is the banana hypothesis, and why looki here... we have another one for you ! ;)

Apr 10, 2019
So now SEU
We are labelling identical copies
one for M87 in Virgo
one for the Milkyway in Sagittarius A*
one for …..
we just have to make sure they do not get mixed up


Exactly. If this M87 image would be a fair to good example of a genuine Black Hole and its EH, then it is important to keep consecutive images of later Black Holes separate by labeling each to prevent a mixup and confusion as to which one is which. They all may resemble each other, after all. Is that being bigoted? LOL

Apr 10, 2019
They only resemble what that lone pea can fabricate into the emptiness surounding it ;)

Apr 10, 2019

There may be 78 sox of various accounts trolling me for whatever purpose. A few are Da Schneibo's own sox that he talks to to shore himself up.
I don't have any sox although being accused of it. Don't need them.

Keep fooling yourself you don't... we Know you do ;)


Nope. I don't need to pretend I'm someone else. If you find one, do let me know about it so that I can confront the lout and give him what for.

Apr 10, 2019
Precisely, and that makes me question their hypothesis and conclusions.


Lol. And your qualifications for doing that? Not understanding either the image or the science, correct?

Apr 10, 2019
Nope. I don't need to pretend I'm someone else. If you find one, do let me know about it so that I can confront the lout and give him what for.

You confront your own socks everyday..priceless... lol.. you go Boonie .... ;) !

Apr 10, 2019
Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary.

Precisely, and that makes me question their hypothesis and conclusions.

The only thing you aren't questioning is the banana hypothesis, and why looki here... we have another one for you ! ;)
says green gnome

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.

Apr 10, 2019
Is Sag A spinning too fast?

Yes, it looks like stuff is spinning about 1000 times faster at Sag A* than with M87.

he gravitational energy of the black hole is buzzing the local spacetime photosphere

Erm...whut?

You'll need to use a strobelight technique to image the photosphere

Erm...whut?

Note: The photonsphere is a *mathematical* construct (of a NON-ROTATING black hole. M87 - and every other BH are rotating black holes, so they don't have photonspheres anyhow)
Even if there were a non-rotating black hole there would be no (or very few) photons in the photonsphere


what? yea, there's a photosphere . . what? yea, there's such a thing as a strobelight, and yes Sag A looks to be spinning at 30% of the speed of light - don't be a punk.

Apr 10, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.


We can see by your baboony replies... ;)

Apr 10, 2019
Nope. I don't need to pretend I'm someone else. If you find one, do let me know about it so that I can confront the lout and give him what for.

You confront your own socks everyday..priceless... lol.. you go Boonie .... ;) !


And your evidence for that is.....?

Apr 10, 2019
Nope. I don't need to pretend I'm someone else. If you find one, do let me know about it so that I can confront the lout and give him what for.

You confront your own socks everyday..priceless... lol.. you go Boonie .... ;) !


And your evidence for that is.....?


Absolutely Everywhere, but of course you will deny it, just like you deny evidence for climate change just as you deny science for the last 2 decades, you are the clown of the show, and we're loving it ;)

Apr 10, 2019
JD:
"Who cares? Neither of them understand Jack about the relevant science! Nor any other science, as far as I can see."

And you are going to explain to us the methods for generating the phase-shifting interferometry algorithms utilised to create the 'photos'?

Apr 10, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.


We can see by your baboony replies... ;)
says green gnu

OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts, Captain Stumpy aka Satan/Lucifer/the Devil, and jimmybobber aka kl31415. Don't talk to me while I'm in those sox otherwise I will have to put a curse on you.

Apr 10, 2019
Anybody seen the clown Benni? I hope he's not near any sharp objects or high buildings! Can't blame the cojones-free coward for not taking the bet I offered!

Apr 10, 2019
JD:
"Who cares? Neither of them understand Jack about the relevant science! Nor any other science, as far as I can see."

And you are going to explain to us the methods for generating the phase-shifting interferometry algorithms utilised to create the 'photos'?


Why would I? That is what the scientific literature is for. Try reading it.
Given that you believe the Sun and stars are invisible outside of an atmosphere, it would likely be a waste of time trying to explain it to you anyway.

Apr 10, 2019
Why yes he just replied as surveilence egg head, just like his snooseloose clown puppet and of course antosciencegorilla sock lol...

Apr 10, 2019
OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy...


The only way you'd get close to one of my socks is if I was wielding it with a snooker ball in it.

Apr 10, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.


We can see by your baboony replies... ;)
says green gnu

OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts, Captain Stumpy aka Satan/Lucifer/the Devil, and jimmybobber aka kl31415. Don't talk to me while I'm in those sox otherwise I will have to put a curse on you.

Antisciencegorilla gone nutty... again, i think i'm going to camp out here tonight, this is so much fun... :)

Apr 10, 2019
FYI. I am not kl31415.

Apr 10, 2019
Anybody seen the clown Benni? I hope he's not near any sharp objects or high buildings! Can't blame the cojones-free coward for not taking the bet I offered!


Here's our cute little Benni's response:

"Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary."

Pathetic.

Apr 10, 2019
@solon
And you are going to explain to us the methods for generating the phase-shifting interferometry algorithms utilised to create the 'photos'?
https://ieeexplor...#authors

.

@egg
OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts, Captain Stumpy...
I am not one of your numerous socks

.


Apr 10, 2019
Here's our cute little Benni's response:

"Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary."

Pathetic.


Oh dear! What a clown. What's that river in Egypt? Benni is firmly in it!

Apr 10, 2019
This Photon Ring
National Science Foundation/EHT Press Conference Announcing First Image of Black Hole
This is an embarrassing video
The press are asking for a clearer image using more telescopes
Astoundingly, the answer was surprisingly not more telescopes for this sharper image
The answer for sharper clearer imaging is even more algorithms
https://www.youtu...;t=2434s

Apr 10, 2019
It looks as if my prediction has a chance, almost 150 comments after a few hours, well on our way to 1000 comments. And about half of them are jonesdumb calling people names. I must be clairvoyant!

Apr 10, 2019

Here's our cute little Benni's response:

"Looks exactly like an Einstein Ring for which you can see more pics & videos exactly as they appear on this page:

https://www.space...oto.html

.....no black holes necessary."

Pathetic.

@Benni:
Even if it was, what is the cause of an Einstein Ring? That's right....gravity (warping of spacetime). How would you get so much gravity in such a small volume? weird....only thing I can think of is a black hole.

Apr 10, 2019
yea, there's a photosphere

There's an accretion disk. A photon sphere is something entirely different.
https://en.wikipe...n_sphere
Particularly note this part from the wikipedia article:
In contrast to a Schwarzschild black hole, a Kerr (spinning) black hole does not have spherical symmetry, but only an axis of symmetry, which has profound consequences for the photon orbits. A circular orbit can only exist in the equatorial plane, and there are two of them (prograde and retrograde), with different Boyer–Lindquist-radii,

The BH in the image (and every BH out there) is a Kerr black hole (i.e. rotating).
PhotonSPHERES only exist for Schwarzschild black holes which are a NON-rotating abstraction - not something found in nature.


Apr 10, 2019
It looks as if my prediction has a chance, almost 150 comments after a few hours, well on our way to 1000 comments. And about half of them are jonesdumb calling people names. I must be clairvoyant!

@CD85: It may be the first prediction you ever get right! Congratulations!

Apr 10, 2019
This Photon Ring, This Einstein Ring
National Science Foundation/EHT Press Conference Announcing First Image of Black Hole
in this embarrassing video
are
calling this photon ring of Einstein
this Einstein ring
this photon ring is being called
by
EHT, this ring
This Einstein Ring

Apr 10, 2019
It looks as if my prediction has a chance, almost 150 comments after a few hours, well on our way to 1000 comments. And about half of them are jonesdumb calling people names. I must be clairvoyant!

@CD85: It may be the first prediction you ever get right! Congratulations!

Thanks!
Oh, pretty much nailed the torodial plasmoid as well.

Apr 10, 2019
Cantdrive85 predictive, third star down from the right
sheer genius
Cantdrive85, So they offer up an image of a toroidal plasmiod, gotta love it
pretty much nailed the torodial plasmoid as well
No one does it better

Apr 10, 2019
I am the man! Woohoo!

Apr 10, 2019
Sorry if any of this is redundant. Too many posts to wade through.

Don't photographs typically use direct light exposure to produce them? Even electron micrographs are called photos - you have all seen the amazing scanning EMs of bugs and stuff.

Can photos (aka direct imaging) be generated by radio frequencies? Seems like all those calculations simply lead to an indirect, "data-based image". There should be a difference between such an approach and "real" photography, scientifically defined that is. Of course it is great for general consumption.

Even if it is not a photo, the image will remain remarkable for all time. It's as close to quasi-"visual proof" as can be found (for now).

Sure does look like a doughnut. Does this come with that sprinkly stuff? I hate those. Give me a chocolate covered doughnut any time! Keep the mass below billions of SMs, please.

Apr 10, 2019
i'm not sure what the fuss is about , toroidal plasmiod , looks like a BH , so what other measures are there that confirm its a black hole ?

Apr 10, 2019
so what other measures are there that confirm its a black hole ?

You mean other that it fits perfectly with prediction based on theory of what a black hole should look like?

toroidal plasmiod

Erm..that's not the black hole in the image.

Apr 10, 2019
A nice video made about 30 miles from where I live.

http://www.bigisl...oEUurMms

I'm high on Mauna Kea (where the SMA and JCMT are) very often, most recently two days ago. I'm old enough to have hiked to the nearly 14,000' summit before any observatories were there.

The black hole now has a Hawaiian name: Pōwehi. Very appropriate -- "embellished dark source of unending creation . . . a name sourced from the Kumulipo, the primordial chant describing the creation of the Hawaiian universe. Pō, profound dark source of unending creation, is a concept emphasized and repeated in the Kumulipo, while wehi, or wehiwehi, honored with embellishments, is one of many descriptions of pō in the chant."


Apr 10, 2019
Make way for your next plasmoid
because
National Science Foundation/EHT Press Conference Announcing First Image of Black Hole
announced
during this conference
a similar Picci is in the pipeline
Sagittarius A* is planned, with another telescope
just
be prepared for an identical Picci
for
I am the man! Woohoo!
as
Space is running out for all cants trophies!

Apr 10, 2019
Don't photographs typically use direct light exposure to produce them?

Google synonyms for 'photo'. You will find 'image' and 'picture' among them. Substitute whatever makes you feel better.

Apr 10, 2019
Believers have come to theirs. Science (official) is returned at the time of the formation of the Bible. Idiots cackle as if they laid an egg.

Let's look at the real size:
- Supermassive black hole ø 0.001–400 AU
- Galactic Center Milky Way ø 3000 -16000 ly or 1.890566e+8 - 1.008302e+9 AU (10 ^8 to 10^9 AU)
- 1 ly = 63019 AU;
- 400 AU = 0,00635 ly;
Set the ratio 0.00635 ly (400 AU) as opposed to 3000 to 16000 ly.

Let's turn that into letters. Below a series of 236,220 to 2,512,000 letters they claim to have found the size of one letter (and less).

They have all the technology in the US but can not see China through the Earth or through the gaseous Jupiter! We can check this then they can not lie. That's why no results. The results are there when they see white mice.

Apr 10, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.


We can see by your baboony replies... ;)
says green gnu

OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts, Captain Stumpy aka Satan/Lucifer/the Devil, and jimmybobber aka kl31415. Don't talk to me while I'm in those sox otherwise I will have to put a curse on you.

Antisciencegorilla gone nutty... again, i think i'm going to camp out here tonight, this is so much fun... :)
says helomenello

Apr 10, 2019
Believers have come to theirs. Science (official) is returned at the time of the formation of the Bible. Idiots cackle as if they laid an egg.

. . .

Let's turn that into letters. Below a series of 236,220 to 2,512,000 letters they claim to have found the size of one letter (and less).

They have all the technology in the US but can not see China through the Earth or through the gaseous Jupiter! We can check this then they can not lie. That's why no results. The results are there when they see white mice.

A poet I know showed me an amusing trick. You write some verse in English, then use Google Translate to translate to a language in a very different language family, then you translate that translation back into English. It gets strange (and often interesting) very quickly.

Is that what you did?

Apr 10, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.


We can see by your baboony replies... ;)
says green gnu

OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts, Captain Stumpy aka Satan/Lucifer/the Devil, and jimmybobber aka kl31415. Don't talk to me while I'm in those sox otherwise I will have to put a curse on you.

Antisciencegorilla gone nutty... again, i think i'm going to camp out here tonight, this is so much fun... :)
says helomenelo

But you haven't even engaged my sox in conversation. Not even a "hello, how are you?" What, are you stuck up, or something? Think your schite don't stink?

Apr 10, 2019
Regarding photos and images, I was thinking in technical terms.

An image can be drawn, scribbled, painted, etc. A photo cannot. It requires light. Specifically.

To be plain: A photograph is well defined. Photo means light. Graph is obvious. A photograph is an image "burned" into some substrate (film) by the direct imaging of an object by light. Period.

I was thinking strictly in scientific terms, NOT Googlese.

@Da Schneib, you are uncharacteristically quiet on this one. I see only one post. Perhaps you are too stunned to comment more. It is an amazing "image" to be sure. Did not catch this anywhere, but the brightness in one region of the ring is curious. Is this due to the angle of imaging, or some real "activity" some 50 million years ago.

Apr 10, 2019
I am the man! Woohoo!


No, you are the true plasma ignoramus you talk about so much. You don't know Generalized Ohms Law for Plasmas or the very basics of conductors and insulators. Fraud.

Apr 10, 2019
''You mean other that it fits perfectly with prediction based on theory of what a black hole should look like? ''

how about this one ? so, what other evidence ?

https://www.youtu...BEnioClU

Apr 10, 2019
It's pretty much what I expected.

Those of us who are knowledgeable about science are excited and pleased, because we have a picture of a black hole, which is a picture of some plasma (the accretion disk) surrounding an area from which no light can escape, which is precisely what a picture of a black hole is supposed to look like. That's what we thought, and now we have confirmation.

For those of us who are determined never to accept the existence of black holes, they say that what we have is not a picture of a black hole, despite the fact that it's a picture of a black hole. That's what we thought, and now we have confirmation.

We're seeing its 6.5 billion solar mass SMBH not quite face on. That's likely one of the reasons for the apparent asymmetry of the accretion disk -- the brighter part is angled towards us. There are relativistic jets emanating from the SMBH, which is rotating at up to 1000 km/s.

Apr 10, 2019
Regarding photos and images, I was thinking in technical terms.

Yeah, but this is a press release. So...?

I'm pretty sure that if you go to the linked papers you will not find the term "photo" anywhere.
I am fairly certain I heard it nowhere used in the vids of the three press conferences given by the scientists involved which I've sat through in the meantime.

how about this one ? so, what other evidence ?

You do know that supernovae tend to involve rather lots of fireworks (not seen in M87)? And the video you linked shows the ring of SN 1987A which has a lightYEAR in diameter whereas the image for the BH shows it to have the diameter of 1.5 lightDAYS

You know: Details, details. Gotta watch those details.

Apr 10, 2019
people expecting instant gratification with these images & what there is to be learned from these bytes of data? Across the E/M Spectrum.

Need to grow up & learn the discipline of patience.
Sorry if you feel slighted by Reality
That is your Ankh to bear,

Stop watching Television.
You are being conditioned to accept 15 second commercials.

Pick up a Real Science textbook instead.
If reading it is too difficult? Raising it up & down over your head, will be good physical exercise!

It took weeks to receive & process the images from the flyby of Ultima Thule, aka "Frosty, the Pink Snowman"

Especially when you consider the very limited reflections to be photographed so far from Sunlight.

Sauron's Ring, or if you prefer, Pōwehi?
Is how many tens of thousands of Light years away from our telescopes?

That our observations are not perfect?
There ain't no such critter as "perfect".
We just got keep inventing new technology that will capable of "better" collection of data.

Apr 10, 2019
I was impressed with the size of the Black Hole being only 1 1/2 light DAYS across, in spite of it being 4 million solar masses. I suppose that it is only the Density that is 4msm, but its actual size is small. I assume that it was M87 being referred to for these figures, not SgrA*.
says I

Listening to and watching the press conference again confirmed that it was M87 referred to. And yet, for quite awhile now, it was SgrA* that was emphasised as being of greater import as THE science project due to its residing in the Milky Way and only 25k light yrs from our SS, rather than much farther away in Virgo.
Although to see an image of a BH in Virgo is good, it would have been so much better to see "our own" SMBH that resides in the galaxy in which we live. The reason is that, now that we see the evidence for a Black Hole in Virgo, the subsequent imaging of the BH in our own galaxy will be just a tad bit of an "anticlimax", and might even seem as "old hat" to some.

Apr 10, 2019
In search of black holes and dark matter astrophysicists are relying on indirect observations. It would seem that the measurement of the event horizon of a black hole directly would be a direct evidence. However, by the nature of a horizon, any real measurement of the event horizon will be indirect. The Event Horizon Telescope will get picture of the silhouette of the Sgr A* which is due to optical effects of spacetime outside of the event horizon. The result will be determined by the simple quality of the resulting image that does not depend on the properties of the spacetime within the image. So, it will be also indirect and an existence of BH is a hypothesis.
https://www.acade...ilky_Way
https://www.acade...and_Jets

Apr 10, 2019
@dfj, a couple quibbles.
To be plain: A photograph is well defined. Photo means light. Graph is obvious. A photograph is an image "burned" into some substrate (film) by the direct imaging of an object by light. Period.
First, these days, nobody uses film much any more. Cameras these days use CCDs, charge-coupled devices, which detect the photons in small cells on the surface of a silicon chip. They count the photons that strike each cell, and then make a photograph after image processing inside the camera. So it's pretty much the same thing as what these guys did to make the picture of the black hole, only they used bigger computers and a lot bigger and more sensitive detectors. You may, if you desire, maintain that CCD cameras don't make photographs, they make pictures, but an awful lot of people would look at you funny.

[contd]

Apr 10, 2019

toroidal plasmiod

Erm..that's not the black hole in the image.
I know, because there are no BH's. Just what was imaged, the plasmoid.

Apr 10, 2019
[contd]
Second, physicists and astrophysicists call the entire electromagnetic spectrum "light." It is all, after all, photons. That means that radio, microwave, terahertz, infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, X-rays, and gamma rays are all the same thing. So when you hear light in a physics conversation, don't just think visible light, because that's only a tiny part of the EM spectrum.

As far as why I haven't been posting, I been busy.

Apr 10, 2019
Lobes
Did anyone hear an explanation of the appearance of the lobes visible in the published image? I only caught part of the Q&A.
They are clouds of dust and gas that have infallen into the accretion disk, including gas from spaghettified stars ripped apart by the black hole's tides. At least this is the standard explanation, which I have no reason to doubt.

Do these type of observations generate "lense flare"?
No.

So what are those photons? Is it just a wider area of the disc (from a resent large meal perhaps? Part of some other jets as yet not understood?
Mostly just areas of higher density from dust and gas clouds, but that said:

And why this particular orientation /symmetry?
Actually it's asymmetry, but I take your point. There may be some effect due to the axis of the black hole and accretion disk being tilted rather than pointing straight at us. The brighter parts, then, would be closer, if M87's galactic center is pretty dusty.

Apr 10, 2019
Actually it's asymmetry, but I take your point. There may be some effect due to the axis of the black hole and accretion disk being tilted rather than pointing straight at us. The brighter parts, then, would be closer, if M87's galactic center is pretty dusty.


Given M87's orientation relative to us, the brighter parts of the accretion disk are angled toward us.

Apr 10, 2019
@observer, I think you're probably right, and the effect probably is because M87's galactic center is pretty "dirty." In support of this, it seems to be supported by the prominent jets. I don't think that on a scale of 50 million light years minor tipping or tilting of an accretion disk on the order of the size of the solar system is going to make much difference without obscuring material. You also should be cautious about M87 as a whole's "orientation." It's an elliptical, not a spiral.

Apr 10, 2019
Well cant, here in the 21st Century must be very lonely for you?
No one believes that an ignorant prat such as you can exist in the Modern Age.

You should make friends with BHs as you are both so isolated.

Still confusing your memories of childhood.
Last year, wasn't it?

Running across the cracked asphalt, giggling as you waved your fizzling sparkler.

Then mixing that memory with remedial wooskool that your sparkler is miraculous proof of olasmaspastic cant.

When the word you actually mean to abuse, incessantly,
is "glasma".

Apr 10, 2019
toroidal plasmiod

Erm..that's not the black hole in the image.

I know, because there are no BH's. Just what was imaged, the plasmoid.

Reposted, previous post got mangled.

Apr 10, 2019
PICCI'S Picci certainly gets around in these Heavens
We knew there is only one
But this taking it to extremes
How has Supernova 1987A got a multicoloured Picci of exactly the same as the Picci
snoosebaum> ''You mean other that it fits perfectly with prediction based on theory of what a black hole should look like? ''
how about this one ? so, what other evidence ? >
https://www.youtu...BEnioClU


Timelapse
Shows the Glowing Wreckage from Supernova 1987a Expanding Outward Over 30 Years
https://www.unive...0-years/

And the now all too familiar Supernova 1987A Picci
https://www.unive...ized.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
BTW, still no picture of a black hole despite all the hype.

Apr 10, 2019
@observer, I think you're probably right, and the effect probably is because M87's galactic center is pretty "dirty." In support of this, it seems to be supported by the prominent jets. I don't think that on a scale of 50 million light years minor tipping or tilting of an accretion disk on the order of the size of the solar system is going to make much difference without obscuring material. You also should be cautious about M87 as a whole's "orientation." It's an elliptical, not a spiral.


I should have been more careful of my language; I meant the orientation of the accretion disk, based on its relativistic jet.

Apr 10, 2019
This duplicitous Picci is going down memory lane
As we get to the bottom of Supernova 1987a
https://www.unive...ized.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
You can say that again cantdrive85
cantdrive85> BTW, still no picture of a black hole despite all the hype.

This Picci is appearing multicoloured
In many forms
Everywhere you look
https://www.unive...ized.jpg

Apr 10, 2019
Oh, and @dfj, I'm not responding to trolls other than to obviously troll them. These are not serious people who are keeping science. They're trying to tear it down; we've got nutjobs who think everything is electricity, nutjobs who make up fairy tales and lie about what people said, nutjobs who are trying to pretend they're smarter than real scientists doing science, and religious nutjobs who claim to be mind reading space aliens, not to mention nutjobs who think physics can be done without math. I see no point in responding to these people other than to ridicule them. And that rarely. Sure does get them all excited though. Caper, trolls.

Apr 10, 2019
For once Da Schneib is sensible
Da Schneib> Oh, and @dfj, I'm not responding to trolls other than to obviously troll them. These are not serious people who are keeping science. They're trying to tear it down; we've got nutjobs who think everything is electricity, nutjobs who make up fairy tales and lie about what people said, nutjobs who are trying to pretend they're smarter than real scientists doing science, and religious nutjobs who claim to be mind reading space aliens, not to mention nutjobs who think physics can be done without math. I see no point in responding to these people other than to ridicule them. And that rarely. Sure does get them all excited though. Caper, trolls.

For to view this multicoloured Picci
We have waited so long for
Only to find it being used else where

Apr 10, 2019
Nobody minds that this Picci
is in all its similarities
to this Supernova 1987a Picci
it is not that
it
is that all these Picci's
are computer generated
they are algorithms
but
just like
real photographs
they are supposed to be dissimilar
Not similar to the point they are the same

Apr 10, 2019
Regarding photographs and fake news.

NASA took some heat from the press some years ago by releasing photos that were "false color" (used to bring out details), and not disclosing this. In the era of "fake news", it is important to get things straight.

At least you admit that a photo and image are not necessarily the same thing. The scientists involved in this should have pointed out to the press that it is NOT a photo, but an image and explain the difference. No matter who is "presenting" the data, it should be done as accurately as possible.

We have enough idiots denying climate change, we don't need them doubting all of science. But that is what the masses will probably come down to. Jeez, how can anyone deny climate change, or the difference between a photo and a non-photo?!

@ Da Schneib, I know what you mean. The trolls are destroying a really great site. Keep up the fight and good luck. You will need it!

Apr 10, 2019
What do you do about nutjobs who claim that "teh siensetis is teh lyung" when any of the real scientists make a definite statement?

And they are denying all of science, including what I show them through my own telescope. I gave that up because I wouldn't keep my mouth shut when they pretended the Moon is as close as China.

Not much point in telling six-year-olds their parents are lying stinking denialist pieces of shit. They wouldn't believe it and if they did it wouldn't work out well.

Apr 10, 2019
All we can do is state the truth.

Apr 10, 2019
The cold light of day
dfjohnsonphd> NASA took some heat from the press some years ago by releasing photos that were "false color" (used to bring out details), and not disclosing this. In the era of "fake news", it is important to get things straight.
At least you admit that a photo and image are not necessarily the same thing. The scientists involved in this should have pointed out to the press that it is NOT a photo, but an image and explain the difference. No matter who is "presenting" the data, it should be done as accurately as possible.
We have enough idiots denying climate change, we don't need them doubting all of science. But that is what the masses will probably come down to. Jeez, how can anyone deny climate change, or the difference between a photo and a non-photo?!

This Picci
has to be viewed
with all other algorithms
because
every galactic photograph
is
Uniquely different, like Orion's Nebula!

Apr 10, 2019
Truth is observations. And most of the troll arguments here have been fruitless attempts to falsify them.

I particularly enjoyed the claim of donut shaped plasmoids.

Apr 10, 2019
For to view this multicoloured Picci
We have waited so long for
Only to find it being used else where

Elsewhere indeed. Here is the toroid in an lab experiment, by an electric discharge.

https://www.resea..._3947265

Given what we know about plasmoids and the jets they create, also from lab experiment, it seems pretty obvious that this plasmoid is the cause of galactic jets. No magical maths derived infinite gravity monsters are needed.

Apr 10, 2019
Da Schneib
Da Schneib> What do you do about nutjobs who claim that "teh siensetis is teh lyung" when any of the real scientists make a definite statement?
And they are denying all of science, including what I show them through my own telescope. I gave that up because I wouldn't keep my mouth shut when they pretended the Moon is as close as China.
Not much point in telling six-year-olds their parents are lying stinking denialist pieces of shit. They wouldn't believe it and if they did it wouldn't work out well.

You can
fight, as you describe
nut jobs
as Da Schneib, you are the only one around
there are no nut jobs around
You have no one to quarrel with

Apr 10, 2019
Here is the toroid in an lab experiment, by an electric discharge.

https://www.resea..._3947265

Given what we know about plasmoids and the jets they create,
Dumbshit doesn't understand plasmas or gravity. Obvious plasma and GRT ignoramus.

Apr 10, 2019
It did not take long to descend to the lowest common denominator
Here is the toroid in an lab experiment, by an electric discharge.
https://www.resea..._3947265
Given what we know about plasmoids and the jets they create,
Da Schneib> Dumbshit doesn't understand plasmas or gravity. Obvious plasma and GRT ignoramus.

For to view this multicoloured Picci
We have waited so long for
Only to find it being used else where

Apr 10, 2019
Yo, @cantthink240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 if you don't get the major difference between gravity and EM, why should anyone believe anything you say? You're wrong by 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's kinda hard to argue.

Apr 10, 2019
The acolytes are getting hostile after being shown it is obviously a plasmoid, name calling and derision to distract from the death of BH pseudoscience. The toroidal plasmoid in the experiment even shows the varying degrees of brightness around the ring. Despite the obviousness of the observation, the fact plasmoids create jets, and the magnetic fields, the Darkist acolytes still claim the scientific high road regardless of the fact they are pontificating fanciful about infinite gravity monsters and faerie tales.

Apr 10, 2019
Yo, @cantthink240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 if you don't get the major difference between gravity and EM, why should anyone believe anything you say? You're wrong by 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's kinda hard to argue.

Your moronic statement only goes to support the claims that this is an electromagnetic phenomena with its vastly more powerful forces.

Apr 10, 2019
What does it take to eject matter at light speed across tens of thousands of light years? How about a force 39 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity. How do you explain the rotation curves of galaxies without conjuring faerie dust? How about a force 39 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.

Apr 10, 2019
@cantdrive,

It's not a plasmoid. It's a black hole's accretion disk.

You are what happens when lack of education and stupidity count more than research and hard work.

You are the believer in fairy tales, not I.

Apr 10, 2019
The scientists involved in this should have pointed out to the press that it is NOT a photo, but an image and explain the difference.

What are you on about?
Granted that a lot of post processing has been applied, but it is still representative of photons emitted from that location. Hence, it is a photo.

Apr 10, 2019
And in another ongoing endeavour, it appears that the JWST won't be ready any sooner than ~ May 2020 if all goes well.

https://www.youtu...KrqABzmk

Apr 10, 2019
I watched the announcement live (as I guess others here did) and on the positive side there's nothing I can add. It's an achievement and another 'one up' for science research not to mention Prof, Einstein and his brilliance. But as the team said, this is just the beginning and I sincerely hope they get the necessary funding to continue. And that's the only possible negative, in general, I can think of. Takes years of painstaking research so I hope the sponsors stay with it. I noticed that towards the end there was a question on DM which the team said they had got around to yet...so there's a lot more to come.

Apr 10, 2019
... if you don't get the major difference between gravity and EM, why should anyone believe anything you say?

Because Da Schitts, there have been studies that link Black Hole's jets and accretion disk with magnetic fields.

Apr 10, 2019
Your moronic statement only goes to support the claims that this is an electromagnetic phenomena with its vastly more powerful forces.
It's not my fault you can't see the enormous disparity between 28,000 and 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Apr 10, 2019
The scientists involved in this should have pointed out to the press that it is NOT a photo, but an image and explain the difference.

What are you on about?
Granted that a lot of post processing has been applied, but it is still representative of photons emitted from that location. Hence, it is a photo.
says antigoracle

That is correct. The photo is derived from the original captured image that had been processed and transferred onto photo paper, or downloaded to a CD, DVD, thumb drive, etc. It is the finished product.

Apr 10, 2019
@cantdrive85.
Here is the toroid in an lab experiment, by an electric discharge.

https://www.resea..._3947265

Given what we know about plasmoids and the jets they create, also from lab experiment, it seems pretty obvious that this plasmoid is the cause of galactic jets. No magical maths derived infinite gravity monsters are needed.
How many times have I pointed out the known fact that plasmoids are INHERENTLY UNSTABLE unless contained/anchored by some other factor, mate? If that imaged central region of M87 was a plasmoid torus as you suggest, then what is keeping it 'stable'? Answer that, and you have the answer: the feature imaged is the result of ongoing interplay of forces (gravity of central extreme mass feature, and E-M forces associated with the plasma material forced by 'BH' gravity/magnetic field patterns) to form that 'structure' which FUNNELS away excess plasma as 'jets'.

Apr 10, 2019
@cantdrive,

It's not a plasmoid. It's a black hole's accretion disk.

You are what happens when lack of education and stupidity count more than research and hard work.

You are the believer in fairy tales, not I.

That's your opinion. We know plasmoids exist, this is a fact. BH's are conjecture, regardless of the image of a toroidal plasmoid above. We know plasmoids eject jets, this is a fact. That BH's, if they exist, which are nestled deeply in a gravity well can somehow create extra-galactic jets that extend thousands of parsecs out of the core using only an attractive force sounds a bit magical.

Apr 10, 2019
How many times have I pointed out the known fact that plasmoids are INHERENTLY UNSTABLE unless contained/anchored by some other factor, mate?

You say a lot of inaccurate nonsense which you claim to be fact.
If that imaged central region of M87 was a plasmoid torus as you suggest, then what is keeping it 'stable'?

The magnetic pinch effect of the electric currents flowing through the plasma.

Apr 10, 2019
How many times do I have to point out 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 before you get it?

Cranks can't count.

Apr 10, 2019
How many times do I have to point out 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 before you get it?

Cranks can't count.

It's obvious you can't count da schnied, your self deprecating comments don't need to be repeated.

Apr 10, 2019
It's obvious I can since I know the difference between 26,000 and 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 and you can't since you don't.

Apr 10, 2019
@cantdrive85.
How many times have I pointed out the known fact that plasmoids are INHERENTLY UNSTABLE unless contained/anchored by some other factor, mate?
You say a lot of inaccurate nonsense which you claim to be fact.
You evaded the point: it is the known plasma science fact, and I merely reminded you of it (again).
If that imaged central region of M87 was a plasmoid torus as you suggest, then what is keeping it 'stable'?
The magnetic pinch effect of the electric currents flowing through the plasma.
Again, a pinch effect is a transient stage in the full evolutionary processes which form the pinch inn the first place. Transient means that unless something extra is involved to maintain that pinch/plasmoid effect 'stable', then the pinch/plasmoid will EXPLODE because they are inherently UNSTABLE. Unless you explain what it is that is maintaining that stability then you are just as bad as those whom you mock, @cantdrive. Admit it, mate. You're wrong. :)

Apr 11, 2019
You evaded the point: it is the known plasma science fact, and I merely reminded you of it (again).

You merely regurgitated a science falsehood and claimed it to be fact. Here is a stable plasmoid which will last indefinitely so long as the flow of matter is maintained.

https://www.calte...ir-80367

Transient means that unless something extra is involved to maintain that pinch/plasmoid effect 'stable',

You seem unaware that transient is relative to the scale involved. As the size of the Plasma scales up so to do the timescales. The transient plasma phenomena that occur in seconds in the lab scale to billions of years at galactic scales. And yes, double layers in pinched currents can explode as we also see high energy gamma, X-ray, and other such events throughout the Universe.

Apr 11, 2019
@cantdrive85.
You evaded the point: it is the known plasma science fact, and I merely reminded you of it (again).
You merely regurgitated a science falsehood and claimed it to be fact.
Not so, mate; as I will point out below.
Here is a stable plasmoid which will last indefinitely so long as the flow of matter is maintained.

https://www.calte...ir-80367

You seem unaware that transient is relative to the scale involved. As the size of the Plasma scales up so to do the timescales. The transient plasma phenomena that occur in seconds in the lab scale to billions of years at galactic scales. And yes, double layers in pinched currents can explode ....
It's the pinch/plasmoid location/scale that's critical, no matter how huge the larger flow-structure that creates the conditions for pinch/plasmoid. Fast Electrons destabilise plasmoid/pinch features because strong 'currents' arise and explode them.

Apr 11, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Apr 11, 2019

Have you tried banana liquor? It goes very well over vanilla ice cream.

We can see by your baboony replies... ;) says green gnu

OK OK I'll admit that my sox are Castrogiovanni aka jonesy, Da Schneib aka Da Schitts,

But you haven't even engaged my sox in conversation. Not even a "hello, how are you?" What, are you stuck up, or something? Think your schite don't stink?


Oooo monkey feeling left out because i don't play catch the banana with him ?
Lol with over 2 decades of Dumbfounded comments you put up, chest thumping and sensless barking, i haven't felt the need to converse with your dumb socks, the outcome is always the same, that pea ain't budging nor growing in size... And will Never be able to understand Evidence, but's great fun to throw banana's at you and your socks i must say :D

Apr 11, 2019
The scientists involved in this should have pointed out to the press that it is NOT a photo, but an image and explain the difference.

What are you on about?
Granted that a lot of post processing has been applied, but it is still representative of photons emitted from that location. Hence, it is a photo.
says antigoracle

That is correct. The photo is derived from the original captured image that had been processed and transferred onto photo paper, or downloaded to a CD, DVD, thumb drive, etc. It is the finished product.


Talking to your own sockpuppets never gets old...

Apr 11, 2019
But as the team said, this is just the beginning and I sincerely hope they get the necessary funding to continue.

Well, the EU research budget for this year is 16bn Euros. Seems sorta silly when compared to the e.g. the cost of a single UK atomic sub (which costs 7 times as much).

...but I guess killing people is always a lot more important (and a lot easier to get funding for) than actually figuring out what is going on in the universe.

Apr 11, 2019