Study on economic impact of border wall finds high costs and few benefits to US

Dartmouth-Stanford study on economic impact of border wall finds high costs and few benefits to US
Location of U.S.-Mexico border wall constructed after the Secure Fence Act of 2006. Credit: Treb Allen, Melanie Morten and Cauê Dobbin

A new Dartmouth-Stanford study examining the economic impact of a border wall expansion between the U.S. and Mexico between 2007 to 2010 finds that the expansion minimally reduced unauthorized Mexican migration and was largely harmful to U.S. workers.

Despite construction of the wall of $2.3 billion or approximately $7 per person in the U.S., the study found that the wall harmed college educated U.S. workers by $4.35 per person and only benefited less educated U.S. workers by an average of 36 cents.

The study finds that in lieu of the border wall expansion, if the U.S. had simply reduced its trade costs with Mexico so that they were closer to domestic costs, all U.S. and Mexican workers would have substantially benefited.

The research was co-authored by Dartmouth economist Treb Allen, Stanford economist Melanie Morten and Stanford doctoral candidate Cauê Dobbin, who embarked on the study in the summer of 2016 after seeing a need for more empirical evidence on the effects of the border wall amid ongoing debates over immigration. The new 101-page working paper is abridged in an executive summary and will be posted online by the National Bureau of Economic Research on Nov. 19. 

"Once we account for the complex ways the border wall expansion impacted the economy, we found that almost all workers were made worse off. Even those who did benefit did so by a very small amount. This is all the more striking given the substantial construction costs," said Treb Allen, an associate professor of economics and distinguished professor of economics and globalization at Dartmouth.

The researchers examined the U.S. - Mexico border wall expansion that resulted from the Secure Fence Act of 2006 for which 548 miles of additional fencing was constructed along nearly one-third of the 1954-mile border.

To evaluate the effect of the border wall expansion on , the team used confidential data from the Mexican government to examine how migration flows changed after the border wall expansion. The researchers estimate that the wall expansion reduced the total number of Mexican-born workers coming into the U.S. by only 0.6 percent, roughly 83,000 people.

"If the goal of policy is to reduce migration, it's important to examine what leads people to migrate in the first place," said Melanie Morten, an assistant professor of economics and faculty fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research (SIEPR). "Mexican citizens tended to migrate to attain higher wages. The wall did not change that."

The study considered two other policies that the U.S. could have implemented:

  • One such policy took a more extreme approach calling for additional fencing for 50 percent of the remaining border. The results estimate that college educated U.S. workers would have been made even worse off by $7.60 while benefits to less educated U.S. workers would have only increased to 58 cents.
  • If the additional fencing along the border had not been constructed and the U.S. had reduced its trade costs with Mexico so that they were 25 percent closer to domestic costs, all U.S. and Mexican workers would have benefited. Instead of facing an economic loss as they did with the wall, college educated U.S. workers would have seen a $80.59 increase while less educated U.S. workers would have experienced a $58.67 increase in annual income.

"Rather than building walls, our study finds that a more effective way of reducing migration is to reduce the incentives to migrate. Promoting economic growth in the sending country by reducing trade costs is a great way to do that, as it also benefits U.S. workers," added Allen.


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Nov 19, 2018
It's what the MAJORITY of Americans want!
Build it higher and quite playing around and make it lethal.

Nov 19, 2018
Lethal. Shoot to kill on sovereign soil or it is not sovereign for long.

Nov 19, 2018
Lethal. Shoot to kill on sovereign soil or it is not sovereign for long.

Hmmm. This hasn't been a policy in the US for any time in its history and the US is still a sovereign nation. Just how long does this process of becoming non-sovereign take?

I know that Americans have gotten a reputation for being stupid and cowardly lately, but this does seem to take it to extreme levels. Since most illegal immigration is not through illegally crossing the border, Mr. Nightmare's suggestion seems to be that we all be required to carry papers at all times or risk summary execution, which goes against everything the US was founded on. I certainly am not willing to give up my freedoms to let the cowards think they're safer.

Nov 19, 2018
"A new ultraliberal soros-funded academie study examining the economic impact of a border wall expansion between the U.S. and Mexico between 2007 to 2010 finds that the expansion minimally reduced unauthorized Mexican migration and was largely harmful to U.S. workers."

Nov 19, 2018
Lethal. Shoot to kill on sovereign soil or it is not sovereign for long
Correct. The cartels who own the northern Mexican borderlands and routinely shoot migrants and enemies with guns supplied by Obama's FBI Fast and Furious operation, and hang their corpses from bridges, have in effect established their own sovereign nation. Aided of course by the clinton/Bush CIA drug import business run out of Mena AR.

Sometimes they will even shoot US border patrol and hapless ranchers from the safety of this sovereign nation did you know it?

Nov 19, 2018
I think that the statement publicized by the media says it all. A mother of 8 said all she wanted to do was get a job in the US and send the money earned back home.

In other words, work off the books, have her and her children supported and schooled by our tax dollars and send the un-taxed money back to Central America. You will never find an HONEST accounting of the public entitlement and health care costs created by illegal immigration. Their gangs sell our children their drugs and fill our jails. THE COSTS ARE ENORMOUSNESS!!!!!

Nov 19, 2018
The US is printing money at an unprecedented rate with the national debt doubling every 8 years or so. We will soon be bankrupt and in hyper-inflationary chaos like Venezuela. Our collapse is a major part of the plan to institute the One World Government. After all that is the ultimate goal of the Globalists.

Nov 19, 2018
I have personally heard women say that they do not want their husband/boyfriend on an apartment rental lease so that they would be entitled to a government subsidy.

The immigrants of old wanted to contribute to the US whereas the immigrants of today want to milk our system.

Nov 19, 2018
Perhaps the chain gangs of old need to be re-instituted. Have them build the wall and then deport them when their sentience is up.

Nov 20, 2018
Doug
Shoot to kill on sovereign soil
There - in plain sight - is the problem we face.
An empathetic world view - says we are all in this together. I may not personally be able to fix all the problems of the fucked up system - but I can at least acknowledge that you and I are equal - in that we are both human beings.

The fascist says no. You are not of my tribe, therefore you are not equal. You are in fact Untermensch. I can put you on a train and send you to a death camp - or I can put you in the cross hairs, and pull the trigger.

We see in plain sight - the competition for the soul of the human race.

Nov 20, 2018
If the clown in charge gets another term in office, they'll need to build a wall along the Canadian border to stop everybody with an IQ north of 100 from leaving!

Nov 20, 2018
We know border walls can work extremely well as shown by Hungarian border barrier during migrant crisis.

https://en.wikipe..._barrier

But in order to work they need to be continuous and patrolled. A bunch of fences with gaps in them is no good.

Nov 20, 2018
The Progressives have managed to brainwash 50% of the US population!!!!

If we were to stop all of the free housing, food and medical care for illegals much of the problem would disappear. The Progressives on the other hand want to grant them the right to vote on top of what we already give them. This is nothing more than a plan to import new Democratic voters into the US.

As far as the Canadian border goes we should offer free first class air fare to anyone who wants to leave the US. The Hollywood types should be given free luggage also.

Nov 20, 2018
Trump made a very good point. These people are carrying their national flags. They don't love the USA they just want to come here and milk the system.

There is no country in the world that has open borders and offers government subsidies to anyone that enters.

They come here and it is considered confrontational and hateful if an american student wears an American Flag as part of their attire.

Nov 20, 2018
There - in plain sight - is the problem we face.
An empathetic world view - says we are all in this together. I may not personally be able to fix all the problems of the fucked up system - but I can at least acknowledge that you and I are equal - in that we are both human beings
Rabid tribalists use words like fascists and racists to denigrate anybody who disagrees with them. Did you know it?

Re the caravan -

"Migrant caravan at US border is harboring more than 500 criminals, Homeland Security claims"

-These are the people greengotts feels empathetic towards. And sadly their presence often results in gunfire.

"11-11-18 Illegal immigrant killed 3 after 'sanctuary' release from custody, ICE says... (ICE) officials said they placed a detainer on Perez while he was in custody, but the request was not honored nor was the agency notified when he was let go..."

-Fellow tribesman I presume?

Nov 20, 2018
Fucking christ, there's fucking nazis in this thread. What the hell does it take for the mods to do anything?

And Rderkis, Doug, you are the lowest scum of the earth. Go to hell, and I'll happily punch your ticket.

Nov 20, 2018
Otto
Rabid tribalists use words like fascists and racists to denigrate anybody who disagrees with them. Did you know it?
No - I did not know that. Are you accusing me of being a rabid tribalist? What tribe do you assert I rabidly belong to?

It seems pretty clear historically that it is the rabid tribalists (Nazis for example) who practice fascism and racism the most. I think it is more that fascists and racists - don't like being called fascists and racists. It hurts their little feelings...

Nov 20, 2018
Otto
These are the people greengotts feels empathetic towards
It is much more about a world view. Yes Otto - I feel a great deal of empathy towards people who are desperate enough to leave their homes - and walk hundreds of miles - for the opportunity to lead a better life. I agree that we should secure our borders - and I support a country having control over who can immigrate, or become a citizen. Unlike your world view - I see myself as one person - equal in that regard to all 8 billion other humans on this planet. I despise white supremacy, racism, and fascism. Any ism that advocates one human being superior to another based on tribe.

Nov 20, 2018
" I feel a great deal of empathy towards people who are desperate enough to leave their homes - and walk hundreds of miles - for the opportunity to lead a better life."

Perhaps these ignorant people should stop electing Socialists/Communists and fix their own country. They come here and want the same Socialism that they are fleeing.

Nov 20, 2018
@MR166
Electing socialists??? Please, they're running away from the right wing dictatorship that the US put in power in Honduras (after the people had the audacity to elect a socialist), turning it into the murder capital of the world. Your tax dollars paid to make their country a hell hole, why are you so surprised that the world thinks you owe them something in return?

Nov 20, 2018
Lethal. Shoot to kill on sovereign soil or it is not sovereign for long.


More like Doug DumbFuck......what a shit eater.....

Nov 20, 2018
Fucking christ, there's fucking nazis in this thread. What the hell does it take for the mods to do anything?

And Rderkis, Doug, you are the lowest scum of the earth. Go to hell, and I'll happily punch your ticket.


Unfortunately there are perhaps more Nazis around today than there were 75 years ago. They desperately search for opportunities to validate their psychotic delusions, and then fall straight to fecal regurgitation. Filthy diseased vermin, they are.

Nov 20, 2018
Yes Nazis everywhere ! everyone is a nazi !

Nov 20, 2018
Yup, Antifa runs around in black uniforms and face masks. They are the front line heros of the Left. If you oppose them you are a Nazi.

Nov 20, 2018
https://www.foxne...irl-shot

Let the Liberals run a government and bingo you have instant 3rd world country.

Nov 20, 2018
MR
If you oppose them you are a Nazi
It couldn't be that there really are Nazi's in the U.S. - could it? https://www.youtu...cB1sAN8I

why are you so surprised ....


MR is so surprised - because he/she has no real historical understanding. It is too easy to scream SOCIALIST at every turn....


Nov 20, 2018
The number of true right wing kooks is minuscule. Whereas Antifa has thousands. Imagine targeting people in restaurants just because they do not hold your political views. That my friend is a true Natzi!

Brown shirts or black shirts it is all the same type of movement.

Nov 20, 2018
Imagine targeting people in restaurants just because they do not hold your political views. That my friend is a true Natzi!
I condemn the groups who encourage harassing people they disagree with - and those who carry out such harassment. Not only do I condemn it because it is wrong, but it is also counter productive. Equating harassing people in restaurants - with the behavior of white supremacists - chanting "We will not be replaced by the Jews." - shows how little you really know about the world. No MR - the White Supremacists are the true Nazis. https://www.youtu...0sHFq22w

Nov 21, 2018
We know border walls can work extremely well as shown by Hungarian border barrier during migrant crisis.

It's important to keep in mind that the US doesn't have a migrant crisis. This was a problem manufactured by politicians to gain support by appealing to their constituents hidden (or not so hidden, as we see in the comments here) racism. The US economy has always depended on very cheap labor - slavery, illegal immigrants, cheap labor in developing nations, etc. So the politicians know we require illegals. The border wall is ineffective in keeping illegals out because that's not how most get in. It's just an expensive tactic to fire up the racists.

Nov 21, 2018
Yup, Antifa runs around in black uniforms and face masks. They are the front line heros of the Left. If you oppose them you are a Nazi
So hard to tell these fascists apart.

Difference between
https://youtu.be/WX8HOujXSyo
and
https://youtu.be/p3P2JoNTapU
(@:26)

??? No - by design.

Nov 21, 2018
One of the main problems is inconsistent enforcement of existing laws. Laws should not be politicized and enforced when desired. If a law is bad then get enough people together to take it off the books like we did with slavery. Or, if applicable under the Constitution, let each state set their own laws in these areas.
There are a LOT of outdated laws that need to be taken off the books but that does not mean that important laws like border control should not be enforced as written.

Nov 21, 2018
Otto
So hard to tell these fascists apart.
Only if you cannot think for yourself. It is interesting that as someone who often comments on political threads - you clearly don't know the meaning of fascism. - https://www.merri.../fascism Antifa stands for Anti fascists. http://www.bbc.co...t-antifa

Nov 21, 2018
What is the limit on illegal border crossings? Should we allow 1000 a year, 1 million a year, 10 million a year? Shall we feed and house mothers and children as local laws require.

Some confuse trying to preserve the US culture and legal system as racism. It is our culture of individual self sufficiency that has made the US a great country and not the unlimited social welfare programs that illegal aliens seeking. You can deny this but I have seen it in person. Mothers milk the system by having children and claiming that there is no father supporting them.

Nov 21, 2018
Onions look carefully at the second meaning.

": a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control "

Masked individuals forcibly limiting the free speech of others is close enough for me.

The irony of an "anti-fascist" group acting as Antifa does not escape an unbiased person.

Nov 21, 2018
Also masked people running around intimidating others is very much the tactics employed by the KKK. But the Left still loves Antifa since the end always justifies the means.

Nov 21, 2018
is close enough for me
Because you can't think for yourself. Antifa is protesting against fascism. Against autocratic rule.
Could you argue that Antifa are thugs - exhibiting exactly the same behaviors as the fascists they condemn? Absolutely you could. But if you argue that they are fascists - you show that you have no complex understanding of political thought. That you are childish in terms of your use of language. That you don't understand subtle linguistic distinctions. That is probably why you get so much push back on this site. Because you and Otto are trying to engage in an adult conversation - but you cannot think in the complex manner that would require.

Nov 21, 2018
But the Left still loves Antifa since the end always justifies the means
And the right - loves Herr Trump - since the end always justifies the means. So Herr Trump cozies up to the brutal Saudi dictators - who cold bloodedly murdered a journalist (one of the cornerstones of a free society). Why? Because money. Today there are 14 million people on the verge of starvation in Yemen. But but but - the Saudis are buying our weapons systems. In other words - we have NO principles, other than money. You want to know why America is about to implode?

Nov 21, 2018
Look I have never been a fan of the Us position in the M. E. . It was bad under both Bush 1 and 2 and just as bad if not worse under Obama. THAT is why Trump needs to disassemble the Deep State. It is the Deep State, both Republicans and Democrats, that opposes him and pulls your strings as the little marionette that you are.

Nov 21, 2018
Personally I was hoping that Trump would end the US involvement in the M.E. . To do this, I am sure that he needs to get rid of a few entrenched military leaders in the Pentagon.

Nov 21, 2018
and pulls your strings as the little marionette that you are
You have no basis for such an assertion. I constantly emphasize that I am an independent thinker. So it is interesting - don't you think? I demonstrate - through the conversation about the specific meaning of the construct 'fascism' - that you are a childish thinker. I have given you an example - of how you toss around a term - without really understanding the meaning behind that term. Your immediate response - is to ignore the import of what I have shown you - with a clear example - and to then call me a 'marionette' - without providing any evidence (there is none) for such a slurr.

Nov 21, 2018
clearly don't know the meaning of fascism. - https://www.merri.../fascism Antifa stands for Anti fascists
Ultralibs like greengotts are so good at wordplay. Helps with the self-deception.

NAZI - a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Nazis adopted this clever name to confuse the Rotfront, who were the socialist champions of the working class. Their flags were red to mimic the communist flags.

They duped an entire nation of very intelligent and self-reliant people.

Communism/national socialism; 2 sides/1 coin

Nazis had cooler uniforms. Only difference. Soviets even used captured nazi concentration camps for exactly the same reasons after the war.

It's not what they call themselves, it's what they DO that is the indicator of what they are.

Antifeh core members would be very happy to have the same power and freedom as the red guard, blackshirts, brownshirts, or Khmer Rouge.

Tribalism is the most powerful force in human social interaction.

Nov 21, 2018
Onions you exhibit independent thought about as much as a school of sardines do. It is just amazing to watch liberals voice simultaneous opinions about an event using the exact same words and phrases.

It is amazing just how easy it is to program vast numbers of people if you start when they are young.

Nov 21, 2018
Otto
it's what they DO that is the indicator of what they are
I agree. I also think that being accurate with language is important. Antifa are not fascists. They are against fascism. Fascism is a very specific term - and you are not smart enough to understand the importance of being careful with language. Thus you do things like accuse people of name calling, and then engaging in name calling.

Nov 21, 2018
Onions you exhibit independent thought about as much as a school of sardines do
That's an opinion MR. Notice that you never actually support your opinions with examples, or with evidence. Notice you go quiet - when it is pointed out that you use a very specific term (fascism), but show that you do not know what it means.

I do not identify myself as a liberal. There really is no political label that I feel fits. But being that you want to throw labels around - I would agree that 'liberal' is a reasonable stab - based on this definition -
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values

favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms


That is why I oppose fascism, rasicsm, and any ism with which a person feels superior to another - based on the tribe they belong to.

Nov 21, 2018
Tribalism is the most powerful force in human social interaction.


and you appear to be a case in point.

Nov 21, 2018
So protecting our borders from foreign invaders is Fascist eh?

So moving jobs and production into our country from a country with almost no pollution and worker protection laws is Fascist eh?

So putting the well being of US citizens ahead of that of other countries is Fascist eh?

Liberals try to gain power and influence by placing names on people who oppose their ideology . The names sexist, raciest, hater, denier, Nazi and deplorables are just of few of the pejoratives that are used to divide and conquer.

Nov 21, 2018
So protecting our borders from foreign invaders is Fascist eh?
Who said that? Who are you talking to? I said -
I agree that we should secure our borders - and I support a country having control over who can immigrate, or become a citizen


Liberals try to gain power and influence by placing names on people who oppose their ideology
You are the one throwing around the term 'liberal.' Can you not hear yourself talk?

You are the one who is constantly saying "liberals do ..." You have done it several times on this thread alone. You debate like a four year old (or Herr Trump.) You don't even try to be coherent.

Nov 21, 2018
Antifa are not fascists. They are against fascism
And nazis were against socialism. Still dont get it do you?
Fascism is a very specific term
"This "anti-fascist" movement engages in militant protests and does not shrink from using violence. As a part of the extreme left, the members of the "antifa-movement" are self-proclaimed "anti-capitalists" and declared "enemies of the right". They call themselves "anti-fascist", when, in fact, more than any other ideology, fascism characterizes their own movement."

Nov 21, 2018
"While calling themselves "antifascist" and declaring fascism as the enemy, the Antifa itself is a foremost fascist movement.

"The members of Antifa are not opponents to fascism but themselves its genuine representatives. Communism, Socialism, Fascism are united by the common band of anti-capitalism and anti-liberalism.

"The Antifa movement is a fascist movement. The enemy of this movement is not fascism but liberty, peace, and prosperity."

-Deeds not words mr bigot.

Nov 21, 2018
And nazis were against socialism. Still dont get it do you?
What don't I get Otto? That you are a sloppy thinker?
A significant number of scholars agree that a "fascist regime" is foremost an authoritarian form of government

Antifa does not support an authoritarian form of government. Antifa is the antithesis of fascism.
Deeds not words mr bigot
But words matter - mr racist. And understanding the meaning of words matters - otherwise you not only show yourself as a racist, and a bully, but also a moron.

Nov 21, 2018
Antifa
It's a leaderless, horizontal movement whose roots lie in various leftist causes—Communism, anarchism, Socialism, anti-racism.
From - https://www.newyo...f-antifa
Fascism
Most definitions agree that fascism is authoritarian and promotes nationalism at all costs, but its basic characteristics are a matter of debate.
From - https://www.lives...ism.html

Hard to show more clearly that Antifa people are not fascists.

Nov 21, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Nov 21, 2018
Antifa does not support an authoritarian form of government. Antifa is the antithesis of fascism
Uh huh. Ever read animal farm? Communism was supposed to be rule by the people. So how do we explain stalin, mao, pol pot, Castro, et al? You cant name a communist regime without a despot at the helm.

When stalin assumed power he killed all the ideologues. Hunted trotsky overseas. That's how it works.

Communism = nazism. Antifeh = brownshirts = rotfront = red guard. All those little weenies would need is a little time and the right circumstances.

Wanna see something funny?
https://youtu.be/VotbUgADmns

Boom! Hahahaha

Nov 22, 2018
Uh huh. Ever read animal farm?
Yes I have read animal farm. So what?
When stalin assumed power he killed all the ideologues
Yes - he was a monster. So what?

However, the Soviet Union and other socialist countries heavily criticised fascism in their official documents and fought fascism in the Second World War


Talking with you is a total waste. You and MR are impervious to reason - you just obfuscate. You are both hateful racists - and you pollute any dialogue.

Boom! Hahahahah - what are you a five year old? No - many five year olds have passed you in terms of humanity, maturity, reason.

Nov 22, 2018
" You and MR are impervious to reason - you just obfuscate. You are both hateful racists"

Why stop at racist, there are plenty of other ists that we qualify for in the mind of a liberal. After all if you disagree with a leftest by definition you become an ist.

Nov 22, 2018
Onions you are not even consistent. On one hand you claim to want to want to control our borders.

"I agree that we should secure our borders - and I support a country having control over who can immigrate, or become a citizen"

But, then you call me a racist for supporting President Trump's efforts to close it.

Nov 22, 2018
But, then you call me a racist for supporting President Trump's efforts to close it
Show me where I called you a racist for supporting efforts to close the boder. Just show me.

I call you a racist - because this thread has advocated shooting to kill - people who approach our border. You do not condemn this. I call you a racist for saying things like this
Perhaps these ignorant people should stop electing Socialists/Communists and fix their own country
When it was pointed out to you that Honduras is not a socialist country - you went quiet didn't you? Why use pejoratives like "these ignorant people?" That is racist. Someone who actually has the ability to show empathy - understands that you can support having a secure border, and also have empathy for others who suffer. Yes MR - you are a shitty racist.

Nov 22, 2018
So I am a racist because someone else advocated shooting illegal border crossers eh?

As far as Honduras goes, my bad trying to link the problem to socialism. But the fact remains that they should fix their own country. In general Mexico, South and Central America have just as many resources as the US and if there is no opportunity there it is due to poor culture and bad government.

Nov 22, 2018
So I am a racist because someone else advocated shooting illegal border crossers eh?
You did not challenge that post. But you ignore the more blatant racist comment - referring to a whole group of people as "these ignorant people." Yes MR - your bad for using the term socialist. But you use the term over and over. You politicize every article you can - and then demonize 'liberals' and 'socialists.' You support a president who is a childish liar, and horrible racist. Yes MR you are a racist.

Notice you accused me of something. I challenged you to support your accusation - and once again you go quiet. I supported why I accuse you of being a racist. The facts are clear for all to see.

Nov 22, 2018
and if there is no opportunity there it is due to poor culture and bad government
Oh looky looky - the old cultural superiority meme raises its head. And you are not a racist - right? And U.S. meddling in the affairs of countries south of our border had nothing to do with it? Maybe you should read something other that Breitbart. You know - like some history books. Here - look up Countries like - Guatemala, Ecuador, Brazil, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, El Salvador, Honduras, Panama etc. https://www.globa.../5348804

That's right MR - we are culturally superior...... That's called racism.

Nov 22, 2018
"Oh looky looky - the old cultural superiority meme raises its head. "

Oh cut the crap Onions. Culture plays a large role in how a person lives. You might choose to call it education instead but it makes no difference. Just look at what happens when athletes or entertainers earn a lot of money. Many die broke due to culture problems. Try to tell me that the culture of fatherless families does not lead to poverty and crime!

Nov 22, 2018
Talking with you is a total waste. You and MR are impervious to reason - you just obfuscate. You are both hateful racists - and you pollute any dialogue
So why do you keep asking us questions that have already been answered? I know - you're not here for a dialectic, you're just here to troll.

Greengotts is lonely awwwwww

Nov 22, 2018
Greengotts is lonely awwwwww
I'm not totally sure what my motivation for posting is. I read the articles cuz I love technology, and am excited about the possibilities of a better world. When I see traits like your ugly racism raising it's head - I take some time to push back. I understand how much better our world is when the racists are confronted, and hopefully one day we evolve beyond that shit. 10,000 years of history has a lot of momentum.
So why do you keep asking us questions that have already been answered?
I'm not sure that I do that - but even so - if they have already been answered - just leave it alone - right? I think that we often go around and around in circles - because people like you and MR keep doing the same ugly shit. No mods - so maybe it is of interest to me to speak my piece. I don't like the feeling that the assholes get free reign.

Nov 22, 2018
MR
Culture plays a large role in how a person lives.
It does. That does not detract from your racism of believing that you have cultural 'superiority.' The economic conditions of a country are very complex. History is important. I reject your notion of cultural superiority. The Brits (my country) were not 'culturally superior' to the peoples of Africa. They just had guns.

This is a complex - difficult topic - one I'm not interested in spending my day off discussing with you. Bottom line - I stand by my assertion that you are a racist - and your view of owning 'cultural superiority' - reinforces that view. You want a rehash of something you posted on this thread that is racist -
Perhaps these ignorant people should stop electing Socialists/Communists and fix their own country
Why don't you 'fix' America MR? Maybe cuz it's not so easy. Now why don't you do some research on U.S. atrocities in S. America - I gave you a starting point.

Nov 22, 2018
Onions I agree that the operations of the Deep State, i.e CIA in the US, need to be brought out into the daylight and curtailed if you will agree that the Deep State is a multinational organization that controls both the Liberal and Conservative agendas.

Nov 22, 2018
if you will agree that the Deep State is a multinational organization that controls both the Liberal and Conservative agendas
I don't know about that MR - certainly not something I can "agree" to. I have read many books on the activities of U.S. intelligence, and military groups, and their interference in the running of other countries. The U.S. fingerprint is all over the globe, as are the Brits, and I am sure other European nations. What were the French doing in Indo China? That is a lifetime of study in itself. Give me some credible links on your 'deep state' - and I'll be happy to do some reading. Maybe you could do some reading - just pick say - Pinochet. https://nacla.org...d-states

Nov 22, 2018
Boom! Hahahahah - what are you a five year old?
Boxing and UFC are adult sports for adult audiences. Street fighting is very serious business and perhaps the little antifeh wizard with his magic wand learned this lesson the hard way.

But these gutter ideologies are easiest to sell to youth. The red guard were mostly HS students. What fun - beating up teachers!

But they soon found themselves in wars and revolutions arranged by adults with their unwitting cooperation and support. And they died in great heaps and piles.

'We like the anarchy symbol because it's so easy to spell!' Says antifeh kiddies. Their hitlerjugend bretheren became waffen SS. The 3rd division totenkopf started with 18,000 men; they suffered over 80,000 casualties during the course of the war as they were repeatedly expended on the ostfront, reconstituted, and sent back out again.

If antifeh insists on stalinism then perhaps they will get it.

Nov 23, 2018
Boom Hahahahaha.

Incoherent rant about sad reflections on the good old days - when fascism was popular, and bodies piled up like cord wood.

Even sadder realization that today is different - and cherished racists on the right are now outnumbered by strange phenomena of emergence of people who care - https://www.nytim...ght.html

I know - I'll go buy an e-cat - or maybe a jar with some hydrinos in it - then the world will be righted - and I can get my favorite brown shirt out.

Did I take my meds this morning?

Boom Hahahahaha.

Nov 23, 2018
Even sadder realization that today is different - and cherished racists on the right are now outnumbered by strange phenomena of emergence of people who care
Funny - the greatest boxer that ever was was a black man... and a muslim. And a humanitarian.

So mohammad ali was a racist huh?

Youre an idiot.

Nov 23, 2018
So mohammad ali was a racist huh?
I would never make that assertion. Don't see how you could assert that I would say such a thing. Proud boys, and other hate groups are certainly racist. https://www.splce...oud-boys

Youre an idiot
Probably.

You're a racist - and a moron. How's the e-cat working in your basement?

Nov 23, 2018
Make it easy, make it a Capital offense to hire and exploit any sort of illegal immigrant. As well as complete loss of all monies and control of the Corporation entirely disbanded.

Shoot the Owners and the Managment of the plants involved.

Stop making it Profitable to make money off the backs of others without paying them fair and legal wages in a safe environment.

That is what all the rest of us want, right, good job, good pay, benefits/w vacation time, right, like we USED to have with Unions for over 40% of the population?

Why should CEO's and paper-holders make more money in a quarter off the profits than the people on the floor doing the WORK to EARN that income.

Start shooting the ones who turn immigrants into Slaves to depress the rest of Our wages so the Bosses dont have to pay out of their Billions, while the workers HAVE to get SNAP and Medicaid, rent assistance...and that is skilled white folks right now.

A few Manager types executed would change things.

Nov 24, 2018
"Ali referred to Caucasians as "white devils" and "crackers" and told mosque worshipers that "black women have the best sons and daughters in the world," according to Federal Bureau of Investigation records obtained by Judicial Watch through a Freedom of Information lawsuit..."

"You don't need the FBI to know that Ali held racist views," Cashill told WND. "As late as 1975, Ali was telling Playboy magazine that he believed interracial couples should be lynched."

-Your prejudice prevents you from learning anything new.

But we were talking about boxing and your prejudicial views against people who fight to defend themselves.

Nov 24, 2018
Your prejudice prevents you from learning anything new
Excuse me - I never studied the beliefs of Muhammad Ali. It was eye opening to me to use google and see how clear his racial views were. Example - https://www.bosto...ory.html

Of course - you know everything in the world - and look down with hate on any one who doesn't happen to know everything.

But we were talking about boxing and your prejudicial views against people who fight to defend themselves
That's what you think we're talking about. I was talking about the definition of the term fascism.

Nov 24, 2018
Re Ali, greengotts says
I would never make that assertion. Don't see how you could assert that I would say such a thing
-assuming, obviously, that since ali was black he couldn't have been a racist. Then he says
Proud boys, and other hate groups are certainly racist
-implying by extension that everyone in that group was racist chiefly because they was white.

"Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan: "Ali was the most famous follower of the Elijah Muhammad, the late leader of the Nation of Islam...""

"Farrakhan was also... a massive racist and bigot, having made innumerable hateful statements against whites [and jews]... Minister Louis Farrakhan, leader of the Nation of Islam... Law Center has labeled the organization a hate group."

"Facebook bans accounts affiliated with far-right group the Proud Boys... [BUT] Nation Of Islam. 12750 likes... Min. Louis Farrakhan. 969K likes."

-So I guess nation of Islam is a good hate group. According to mark Zuckerberg.

Nov 24, 2018
Excuse me - I never studied the beliefs of Muhammad Ali
No you just assumed that because he was black and famous, he couldn't be a racist. Conversely you assume that because trump is white and famous, he must be a racist.

So we can conclude, as previously asserted and demonstrated, that greengotts is an 'Uh-oh oreo' ie, a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling.

Nov 24, 2018
No you just assumed that because he was black and famous, he couldn't be a racist
No I did not. I simply stated that I would not make that assertion - which is based on not knowing the facts. I said that I did not see how you could make that assertion - because I have never made any comment regarding Ali - so how could you accuse me of stipulating that Ali was or was not a racist.
greengotts is an 'Uh-oh oreo' ie, a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
I would conclude from your posts that you are very juvenile, a racist, and don't like it when people call you out for being a racist.

Nov 25, 2018
I would never make that assertion. Don't see how you could assert that I would say such a thing
'Oh no! How could you ever think that I could ever say such a horrible thing???'

-Says the reverse racist bigot uh oh oreo.

To be fair, since we are all domesticated human animals who have been systematically selected for a million years to love fellow tribesmen and hate everybody else, we're ALL racist.

We're currently only judged by how successful we are at suppressing these biological inclinations to fit current cultural standards. Ie how domesticated, how trainable, we are.

Some people, like the green goblin here, believe that this little self-deception is something other than what it is.

'The lion shall lie down with the lamb'. Until it gets hungry that is, and the priest/trainer doesnt show up with the steaks.

And then the lion will eat his little buddy with tears in his eyes.

As in the rwandan genocide et al ad infinitum.

Nov 25, 2018
Remember the funny story about that face transplant candidate who passed out from drugs in the same room as her hungry dog?

Domestication is not an absolute haha.

Nov 25, 2018
'Oh no! How could you ever think that I could ever say such a horrible thing?
Well the way it normally works is that you hold people accountable for things that they actually said, not things you are trying to put into their mouth - cuz you are - you know a racist, a moron, and incoherent (that's based on things you have actually said). Just for example - in trying to defend yourself against the charge of racism - you call someone
a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
Pretty racist comment there Mr. racist.

Nov 25, 2018
Pretty racist comment there Mr. racist
Oreo is not my term. Are you saying that black people who call each other 'nigga' are racist? Is de niro a racist then?
https://youtu.be/sAB9QeXAdNY

Nov 25, 2018
Oreo is not my term
It is a term you used. the phrase
a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
is unquestionably racist.

Are you saying that black people who call each other 'nigga' are racist?
I am not commenting on that subject. I am saying that by throwing around hateful terms such as
a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
You are advertising the community here on physorg - that you are a blatant little racist. It is clear for all to see.

Nov 26, 2018
is unquestionably racist
-And why is that racist?

"Cracker, sometimes white cracker or "cracka", is a colloquial term for white people,[1] used especially for poor rural whites in the Southern United States."

"The term "Oreo" has been used as a derogatory reference to a black person who is perceived or judged to act in a "white manner."

-Are you calling wikipedia racist??? You are apparently not black and I called you not oreo but 'uh oh oreo' which, if you look it up, is a white cookie with a black filling as previously discussed.

You consider this a racial slur which means that you are indeed a bigot and a racist.

Nov 26, 2018
And why is that racist?
First of all - you have never met me - and you don't know what color I am. Secondly - as you pointed out
The term "Oreo" has been used as a derogatory reference to a black person who is perceived or judged to act in a "white manner.
So on an internet forum - you use a
derogatory reference to a black person
and then don't understand why that is racist. Why do you need to be throwing around racial terms all the time? Maybe cuz you are a racist!!!!

Nov 26, 2018
First of all - you have never met me - and you don't know what color I am
You SAID about a week ago that you were a white male. You are fading fast arent you?
and then don't understand why that is racist.
Wiki used it too. Does that mean theyre racist? Are we back to the age of unspeakable words then??
and then don't understand why that is racist
No youre just being a troll playing 'I know you are but what am I?'

Sad.

Nov 26, 2018
Are we back to the age of unspeakable words then??
Well Otto - there are some things you can say that are flat out racist. Calling someone
a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
is flat out racist. You don't understand that - then you are just as stupid as you are racist.

But let me ask you to justify calling me (someone you don't know) a cracker? As you say - used for poor rural whites in the south.
Also - calling me (someone you don't know) a 'reverse oreo' "White slur used by blacks. Meaning white on the outside and black on the inside"
Finally - justify saying that I have a "creamy black filling."

Throwing around racist pejorative language - makes you a racist.

Nov 27, 2018
Wiki used it too. Does that mean theyre racist?
Wow - your reasoning is so childish - it's unbelievable. If you insult a black person - by referring to him/her as a nigger, that is of course racist. It is using a racially charged pejorative - and makes you a racist for using it - as an insult towards that other person. The fact that you can find that word on Wiki, or in a dictionary etc. - does not make Wiki racist. How stupid do you have to be to try to make the argument that Wiki must be racist - if they use a word? When I say
there are some things you can say that are flat out racist
It is of course important to understand the way you are using the word - that make YOU a racist. Shit Otto - it is like debating with a four year old!!!!

Nov 27, 2018
insult a black person - by referring to him/her as a nigger, that is of course racist
So you arent familiar with the 'nigga' colloquialism? Sure you are - you're jus' trollin' ain't youse?
https://youtu.be/s5w4rhiIFR0

-So according to you mozzy is a racist.

Nov 27, 2018
it is like debating with a four year old!!!!

Which he may well be. Remember the internet meme: No one knows you're a dog on the internet. ;)

As for Otto, I don't think anyone would deny that the things he says are mostly idiotic. He may have the mind of a child (regardless of his age) or he may just be a troll. It's best just to ignore his incompetence and move on. If he's a troll, he'll stop. If he's just an idiot, he reveals it with most of his rants. And nothing you say will convince him anyway.

Nov 27, 2018
So nothing but ad hom? Nothing about the topic? BTW otto is the post king of physorg with some 22k examples of rare insight and cogent analysis.

You're free to try to discredit anything I say with evidence and logic.

Nov 27, 2018
So you arent familiar with the 'nigga' colloquialism?
The 'nigga' colloquialism has nothing to do with you being a racist. Throwing around racially charged, pejorative language makes you a racist.
You're free to try to discredit anything I say with evidence and logic
That is done over and over. Let's take the one example today. In response to a charge of racism - you refer to someone you have never met - and know very little about as
a reverse racist. Cracker with a creamy black filling
That is racially charged language - put out there by a racist. There is no need to use terms like cracker, reverse oreo, creamy black filling. They just show that rather than discussing the issue (the definition of fascism) - you launch into racist insults. All proving my assertion that you are racist, and stupid.

Nov 27, 2018
The 'nigga' colloquialism has nothing to do with you being a racist. Throwing around racially charged, pejorative language makes you a racist
But I've never done this. You're just ignoring my witticisms because you're a troll and you're afraid of being left alone in the dark boohoo.

Nov 27, 2018
You're just ignoring my witticisms
Yeah - how many times have we heard the old "it was just a joke." bullshit? Maybe you should learn to put a little smiley face after your racist jokes. Except that it was not a joke. It was part of a pattern - and when you get caught - "It was just a joke!!!."


Nov 28, 2018
Sometimes greengotts, a joke is just a joke like a cookie is just a cookie or a pathetic troll is just a pathetic troll.

One more reluctant comment squeezed out of a baited otto.

Nov 28, 2018
Sometimes greengotts, a joke is just a joke
And sometimes Otto - a racist comment is just a racist comment. "It was just a joke," is the last refuge of racist morons who just got called out. See it all the time.

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