New study suggests Shroud of Turin a fake, supporting study retracted

July 24, 2018 by Bob Yirka, Phys.org report
Full length negatives of the shroud. Credit: Public Domain

A pair of Italian researchers, one a forensic anthropologist, the other a chemist, has conducted tests to determine the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin and report that their analysis indicates that the shroud is a forgery. In their paper published in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, Matteo Borrini and Luigi Garlaschelli describe the tests they conducted and what they found. A separate paper published last year has been retracted; it was originally published on the open access site PLOS One by another team claiming to have found evidence of trauma to the body of the person seen on the shroud.

In this new effort, Borrini and Garlaschelli tested the authenticity of the shroud by carrying out experiments with fake and real and cloth simulating the shroud. Their goal was to find out if blood stains on the shroud were consistent with each other and with reports from the Bible.

One of the experiments involved applying blood to the body of a live volunteer (who was lying in a pose reminiscent of the person seen on the shroud) and then wrapping him in linen to see what sorts of stains it would leave. They also noted that the Bible reported that Jesus had been stabbed in the side with a spear—to mimic such a wound, the researchers attached a sponge to a wooden stake, soaked it with blood and then used it as a spear to impale a mannequin.

The researchers that the bloodstains on the shroud are inconsistent—blood flowing in rivulets would not have formed stains in the ways observed on the shroud. As one example, they point out that blood flowing from a wound to the hand could only have made the stains seen on the shroud if the person were standing upright—the Bible reports that the body of Christ was put in the shroud after death. They conclude by claiming that it would have been impossible for the blood stains on the shroud to have originated in the way the Bible describes; therefore, they say the shroud is a forgery.

Meanwhile, a paper published by a team last year detailing a study of the shroud (and claiming to have found evidence of trauma in the victim) has been retracted by the publishers of PLOS One—the editors note in their retraction that concerns have been raised about the quality of the data used by the researchers and the conclusions they drew.

Explore further: Italian group claims to debunk Shroud of Turin (Update)

More information: Matteo Borrini et al. A BPA Approach to the Shroud of Turin, Journal of Forensic Sciences (2018). DOI: 10.1111/1556-4029.13867

Elvio Carlino et al. Atomic resolution studies detect new biologic evidences on the Turin Shroud, PLOS ONE (2017). DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0180487

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V4Vendicar
1 / 5 (20) Jul 24, 2018
Science is the creation of Lucifer, for it was he who convinced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.

SCVGoodToGo
4.3 / 5 (18) Jul 24, 2018
How's that ignorance thing working out for you?
antialias_physorg
4.3 / 5 (16) Jul 24, 2018
Science is the creation of Lucifer, for it was he who convinced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.

...says the guy typing on a computer

The irony is so thick on that one, it should collapse into a black hole.
SCVGoodToGo
4.2 / 5 (10) Jul 24, 2018
@AA I'm debating the troll level of this one, not sure if its another kevinRTS/BartA/FredJose level believer or just a troll stirring the pot considering half of their posts today are the same single sentence copypasta.
Beckler
4 / 5 (12) Jul 24, 2018
Makes sense actually - fake shroud for a fake religion. (Don't worry, they're all fake.)
Lino235
1.5 / 5 (15) Jul 24, 2018
This study is simply bogus nonsense. After your heart has been pierced by a sword, guess what, it no longer works. And that means that blood will stop flowing out of you since there is zero arterial pressure. Hence, if there are blood stains associated with the hand area wounds, the patterns of that flow would reflect the position of the body when the body was still alive.

And we know that position: upright.

What bogus nonsense. Unbelievable. The Father of Lies must be very happy.
barakn
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2018
If V4Vendicar is truly the latest sockpuppet of the Vendicar Decarian series, this was most likely said ironically or in jest. Many people would label him a troll.
rderkis
1.8 / 5 (10) Jul 24, 2018
Are you all crazy?
I do not doubt the shroud is a fake but proving it is anouther matter unless you can resurrect and bring the individual back from the dead in the same manner Jesus was resurrected(Which most likely would affect the shroud). As far as you non believers - prove scientifically what your saying. After all your God is science.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (7) Jul 24, 2018
V4Vendicar is truly the latest sockpuppet of the Vendicar Decarian series, this was most likely said ironically or in jest. Many people would label him a troll
Just google Scott nudds. If it's the same troll.

Re the shroud, since the god of abraham, the god who wrote a book full of lies about people who never existed and things that never happened, DOESNT EXIST, then of course it's fake.
After your heart has been pierced by a sword, guess what, it no longer works
Uh it was the spear of destiny, which didn't pierce his heart, and which there are at least 3 bonafide originals in existence, one of which was owned by Hitler because of its supernatural powers.

The catholic church thrives on collectibles.
rderkis
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2018
And don't forget to check all planets. solar systems, galaxies, and all possible universes, and all possible dimensions, for the existance of God.
And even if you proved the whole bible and all churches were fake that does not disprove the existance of God.
rrwillsj
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
It is a pointless exercise in nincomppoopery to attempt to prove or disprove the existence of a creator deity. Such a fabulous creature would have no need of your affirmation.

Frankly & Ernestly, I would recommend continuing with the present state of mutual indifference for one another's existence.

Considering the chaotic bungling by the Great Dust Bunny-in-the-sky? Ignoring is bliss!
rderkis
2.1 / 5 (7) Jul 24, 2018
rrwillsj, it is much easier to prove the existance of God then to disprove the existance of God. To prove the negative is pretty much impossible, while proving the existance of somthing only takes a preponderance of evidence. For example pretty much the whole Jewish race saw the plagues and the passover, and then the parting of the red sea, and have celebrated it ever since. As far as the Jewish people go, the preponderance of evidence and eyewitness testimony of pretty much a whole race of people prove the existance of God.
Beckler
3 / 5 (6) Jul 24, 2018
Religion is like trumpism - both extremely obviously idiotic yet some people (better term: simpletons) actually fall for it. But history is always correct on its judgment of psychopath world leaders. The time when both trump & religion are both in history can't come too quickly...
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2018
To prove the negative is pretty much impossible
I dont know why people keep repeating that even though they've been shown otherwise
https://departmen...ive.html

-Perhaps because for them unlearning things is impossible?

Archeology has proven the god of abraham doesnt exist. Period. All that's left is the teeth-gnashing and garment rending. And of course all the lying and denying and ignoring and threatening and persecuting, which is the hallmark of all religions everywhere.
rderkis
2 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2018
Beckler, so you have Trumpaphobia in spite of all he has done for you personally?
I watched a netflix video yesterday about the holocaust. The german SS soldiers felt exactly the same way about the Jews as you do Presiden Trump. The soldiers reaction about the Jews really looked like Whoopi Goldberg or Maxine Waters reaction to President Trump.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (6) Jul 24, 2018
I mean, look at this retard
and then the parting of the red sea
-who is unaware that even the KJV acknowledges that it is yam suph, sea of reeds, and not the red sea, that is what the 2 million non-existent hebrews crossed when the fake moses parted its waters and drowned the Egyptian army, which nevertheless continued to occupy the entire holy land throughout the entire time that the phony genocidal joshuan rampage, which destroyed over 200 cities, towns, and villages, NEVER HAPPENED.

And guess what? There IS no sea of reeds. Just like there is no mt sinai. And no Nazareth at the time of jesus. And never any great solomonic/davidic kingdoms.

All negatives, all conclusively proven FALSE.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
preponderance of evidence and eyewitness testimony
My god my god

"Tel Aviv university archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog wrote in the Haaretz newspaper:

This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."

Ok dorkus I'll bite. What eyewitnesses?
Beckler
4 / 5 (8) Jul 24, 2018
rderkis, right. It's not the cultist who's crazy, it's the outside world around him. Sure. Keep digging your hole deeper...
rderkis
2.1 / 5 (7) Jul 24, 2018
I repeat "Even if you proved the whole bible and all churches were fake that does not disprove the existance of God."
Beckler, perhaps you should put all of us religious believers in gas chambers. As far as the exodus goes, there are some who deny the holocaust also.
Beckler
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
Do you believe trump is god, i.e. that jesus has returned? Just admit it. Actually there's a good chance - they're both scam artists after all. Too bad you're a gullible cultist wasting his life away...I'll type nothing further to you.
shadybail
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
God is energy. Can't be created. Can't be destroyed. Got something better with proof?
rderkis
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2018
Beckler, which Trump? There are probably thousands of people with that name. Unless of course you are trying to link one person with that name, to make him MORE famous.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
Even if you proved the whole bible and all churches were fake that does not disprove the existance of God
We're not talking about any god. We're not talking about some philo deist god. We're talking about a specific theist god, the god of abraham.

This god wrote a book. In it he claims he is perfect, infallible, omniscient, omnipotent, and morally flawless. And yet in this book he wrote he also describes historical things we know didn't happen and people we know didn't exist.

Does he know the past and is lying about it? Does he not know the past and making up his own version? Or is he so despicable that he would actually obliterate all evidence for the biblical version of the past and replace it with totally convincing contrary evidence?

IOW is he LYING to us to find out how much we TRUST him???

At any rate he is not the perfect god he describes himself to be in his BOOK.

Claims of perfection are his downfall. The perfect god of abraham cannot, and does not, exist.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
He might be some lesser, fallible god who misrepresents himself in his book. But you certainly cannot rely on any of the silly promises he makes about immortality, all your wishes granted, retribution against all your enemies, absolution of guilt, or fantasy science.

Because when we compare what we find in the book against what we find in the real world, we get 2 entirely different stories.

So at the very least he is an incompetent liar. But more likely he is a fabrication of incompetent liars, who didn't have to try very hard at all to write good stories. All they had to do was convince you they could deliver on all those promises, and you became willing to think and do absolutely anything they wanted you to.

This includes believing that all unbelievers are godless, immoral, untrustworthy liars, and treating them accordingly.

Because those promises are absolutely everything that any human could ever want.

These concocters were if anything, audacious. And very evil.
rderkis
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
TheGhostofOtto1923 Quote "This god wrote a book." Well now TheGhostofOtto1923, there is a specific statement, giving credit to God. Now personally I never read that "This god wrote a book."anywhere. But like every other thing in the world, you can find anything on the internet.
I just did not realize you were so gullible.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
So you're proclaiming your ignorance of scripture...
https://bible.org...word-god

-The bible is a book and god wrote it.

"19:7 The law of the Lord is perfectand preserves one's life. The rules set down by the Lord are reliable and impart wisdom to the inexperienced. 8 The Lord's precepts are fair and make one joyful. The Lord's commands are pure and give insight for life. 9 The commands to fear the Lord are right and endure forever. The judgments given by the Lord are trustworthyand absolutely just. 10 They are of greater value than gold,than even a great amount of pure gold;they bring greater delight than etc" psm 19:7-11

"All scripture is god-breathed" 2 Tim 3:16

-and yet you're willing to cite a whole race of people as eyewitnesses.

That's the kind of blind audacity you learn from religionists.
rrwillsj
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
shadybail, your claim that god is energy (or did you mean, energy is god?) would mean that god is the same as the universe. Which belief conflicts with the monotheist belief that god is superior to the universe.

Uhh... That brings up an interesting implausibility. That each variety of energy is a separate deity.

Oh yeah, now you are going to have to define your concept of energy. Without disparaging the godliness of your speculative deity.

Good luck on that. deities are such cranky little buggers. Smiting this person for the wrong haircut. Cursing that person with painful boils, for laughing outloud when one of you preachers, right in the middle of solemn services, let out a thunderous fart.

See, I told you, the best policy is to ignore the supernatural. They ain't going to do nothing for you, when you can do nothing for yourself.

Just consider my Theory of Stupid Design. And even you dimwit believers could realize the basic incompetency of the deities.
Porgie
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
Like I am going to believe some liberal rag. So did they match Jesus's blood to it ? OR dispute the date? No the rivulets didn't do what we expected? Lame and desperate.
Researcher
4 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
Nothing new here. The shroud was carbon dated years ago and found the material used to waive the cloth was grown some 300 years after the death of Christ, +-50 years.
But does that mean the story of Jesus is also fake? Because somebody enhanced it.
What about belief in God?
You need to look at the "big picture" before any decisions are made.
rderkis
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2018
TheGhostofOtto1923, I have got to blame your lack of reading skills for pointing out that web page NOT your intelligence.
Now where on that page does it say "God wrote the bible". Perhaps you innocently read into things trying to prove a undefendable point.
Or maybe you don't know the definition of write.
Definition of WRITE "mark (letters, words, or other symbols) on a surface, typically paper, with a pen, pencil, or similar implement."
IwinUlose
3.2 / 5 (11) Jul 24, 2018
Scroll up for examples of why (your favorite god) left and never came back.
Dug
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
Didn't most burial rights in the ME involve bathing the body before laying it to rest - out of respect? Since some thought enough of Jesus to donate his crypt to him, I would guess the body of the man they called Jesus would have received the usual burial rights - including cleaning off any blood and gore. This would seemingly negate the probability of a bloody shroud.
Captain Stumpy
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
...would have received the usual burial rights - including cleaning off any blood and gore. This would seemingly negate the probability of a bloody shroud.
@Dug
not to defend the religious in this case but... a body that is recently deceased has a surprising amount of material that it can "leak", and if it should start decomposing things get even messier. Blood can still leak out of a wound depending on how the body is manipulated, gravity, and a host of other reasons (especially if any force is applied)

of course, the study takes this into consideration based upon what I read in the abstract

anyone have access to the full study?
I've put in a request to the authors
https://www.youtu...b84TminU
rderkis
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 24, 2018
negate the probability of a bloody shroud.

That would be true if you can fully explain resurrection and the physical process steps that resurrection would entail.
For example does that mean no bleeding out of cuts or body orifice?. No unexplained energy involved? Is the healing and rise instantaneous or does it take a hour or a day?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
Now where on that page does it say "God wrote the bible"
Uh what about this?

"The Bible: The Written Word of God"

-or this?

"In hundreds of passages, the Bible declares or takes the position explicitly or implicitly that it is nothing less than the very Word of God."

-Are you saying that because he didn't actually sit down at a table and write it out himself, then he isnt the author??

Either 1) you're very stupid and/or 2) you're trolling.

But irrespective of your lack of intellect, let's consider that he merely ENDORSED it. He still let it be recorded that he is infallible, and he let all the historical lies stand as written.

So he was either powerless to stop it, clueless about the past, or too dishonest. Either way - hes not the god of abraham.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
But going back to your original blasphemy...
For example pretty much the whole Jewish race saw the plagues and the passover, and then the parting of the red sea, and have celebrated it ever since. As far as the Jewish people go, the preponderance of evidence and eyewitness testimony of pretty much a whole race of people prove the existance of God.
-So if you actually believe that the book was written by people and not god, do you understand that it is THEIR word alone that all the witness testimony is genuine? It is found nowhere else but in that book.

And this completely contradicts the archeological and historical record.

So why would you believe THEM when they assert that god is real?

Hermeneutics and exegesis and context already tell us that much of the book is a forgery ie not written by the purported authors ie 5 different mosiac authors, 40% of Pauline epistles, NONE of the gospels which were copied from an earlier Q document.

Lies lies lies.
rderkis
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018

Quore TheGhostofOtto1923not- Are you saying that because he didn't actually sit down at a table and write it out himself, then he isn't the author?

Wow, I thought you were a big enough man/woman to admit when your wrong, my mistake.

I said that nowhere in the bible does it say "God WROTE the bible". I stand by that.
Authorship is a totally different question.
As far as intelligence, even at 71 I have you beat by a mile, based on the IQ probability curve of the world's population.
I guess that kind of shows, because I don't need to resort calling you names like "stupid" etc.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2018
You have an IQ of 71? Sorry dude I should have known. Pretty obvious wot? Sorry again about the retard comment tho again, spot on.
rderkis
3 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2018
As far as intelligence, yes, TheGhostofOtto1923, even with my IQ of 71, I have you beat by a mile. Glad you pointed it out.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2018
Her_man_oy_ticks
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
And don't forget to check all planets. solar systems, galaxies, and all possible universes, and all possible dimensions, for the existance of God.
And even if you proved the whole bible and all churches were fake that does not disprove the existance of God.
says rderkis

All religions are man-made. Most of them have become extremely wealthy by misinterpreting much of the first 5 books of the Bible.

Yahoshuah's body was pierced on his left side by a Roman soldier's spear. He was resurrected from death and is now waiting for his time to return to Earth - which will be soon.

The persecution of this Jewish rabbi still continues, and the fact that so many atheists have flocked to this and other articles having to do with the life and death of Yahoshuah to vent their anger, frustration, disgust, peevishness, and animosity toward a gentle Jewish man is not surprising at all.

Of course God the Creator exists, and He knows the hearts and minds and deeds of humans.

Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
TheGhostofOtto1923, I have got to blame your lack of reading skills for pointing out that web page NOT your intelligence.
Now where on that page does it say "God wrote the bible". Perhaps you innocently read into things trying to prove a undefendable point.
Or maybe you don't know the definition of write.
Definition of WRITE "mark (letters, words, or other symbols) on a surface, typically paper, with a pen, pencil, or similar implement."

says rderkis

God the Creator did not "write" the Bible. The words were dictated to Moses as well as some others, not by God, but by the Holy Angels who were witness to the Creation. How else could the first chapter of the Pentateuch describe so vividly the BEGINNING.

I do not subscribe to the 6-day/24 Earth hour timeframe of Creation. I believe that to be a misinterpretation by the writer who could not conceive of a billion years plus of the Earth's age.
AllStBob
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2018
Science is the creation of Lucifer, for it was he who convinced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.


Thank God someone was interested in pursuing knowledge and truth.
Bart_A
2.3 / 5 (9) Jul 25, 2018
Glad to see the lively debate on Religion and God. I'm glad the authors of this study pointed out their reason that they think Shroud is a fake: Because it doesn't harmonize with what the Bible says. That yardstick should be used in other preposterous claims of "science".
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
As far as intelligence, yes, TheGhostofOtto1923, even with my IQ of 71, I have you beat by a mile. Glad you pointed it out.
says rderkis

Why have you been self-deprecating to an avowed atheist who seems to be demonically-possessed? Do you not recognise the signs of demonic possession?

Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (6) Jul 25, 2018
Glad to see the lively debate on Religion and God. I'm glad the authors of this study pointed out their reason that they think Shroud is a fake: Because it doesn't harmonize with what the Bible says. That yardstick should be used in other preposterous claims of "science".

says Bart_A

Yes. Such as the preposterous claims for Dark Matter/Dark Energy.

However, if the "blood" on the shroud is not blood at all, then who and why would anyone perpetrate such a sham on society?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
Ya_ho_shu_ah

Too many dweebs on this site of late. Real? Socks? Trolls? Psychopaths? What is their function??
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2018
Bart_a

Hey bart, why dont you try refuting my PROOF your god doesnt exist? You know, rather than the usual 1/5 bitchslap-

And no s_e_u, otto is no a_theist. I dont think we need separate words for a_nonsense.

I'm an antireligionist. As in, actively working to spread truth for the purpose of destroying your caustic murderous superstition.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
by holy angels
the poster confuses pseudo-xian and muslim heresy with the biblical record

"The Scripture says in II Peter 1:20-21, "You must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

"The Holy Spirit revealed to the prophets the messages of Scripture. The writers of the Bible wrote not according to their own will or whim, but only as they were moved, or controlled, by the Spirit of God. The Bible is God's own book!"

"1 Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the Lord your God: to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His judgments, and His testimonies, as it is written in the Law of Moses..."

"2 Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he did not execute, according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses, in which the Lord commanded, saying wakawaka etcerera"
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
However, if the "blood" on the shroud is not blood at all, then who and why would anyone perpetrate such a sham on society?
"After a yearlong investigation, detectives traced the [Joash Tablet] and the [james] ossuary to the same Tel Aviv collector, Oded Golan, who admitted that he had purchased them but could never explain from whom. They also found in his apartment and warehouses what they thought were materials for making fakes, suspicious half-made objects and plans for more. A panel of Israeli scholars was convened to inspect the tablet and ossuary and declared both modern forgeries."

"Golan and four others were charged with fraud, involving more than a dozen forged objects purportedly related to biblical events that they sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars"

-Duh.
nowhere
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2018
does not disprove the existance of God.

What's the point of such a God? Such an entity would be like the orange tree growing outside the universe. Wonderful to imagine, but pointless otherwise.
rderkis
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
I read your denial of God. Your pitiful twisting of the word of God. With our present knowledge of the universe, most of you sound like a ant in the Amazon rainforest yelling "Man does not exist! I have never seen one".
On a scale of 1 to 1000, with 1000 being all the knowledge of the universe and a ant being at level 1. We are at level 2. Yet some people on here (Like that ant) yell "God does not exist" out of ignorance.
Whart1984
Jul 25, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
Apparently yes. I'm not into religious stuff at all
-so why would you think jesus died on the cross?
What's the point of such a God?
The god of abraham required you to believe that unbelievers are evil. He invokes the tribal dynamic and endorses the persecution of his enemies... your enemies.

He is a powerful wespon.
rderkis
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2018
Quote TheGhostofOtto1923 "so why would you think jesus died on the cross?
"
Why would anyone believe otherwise, unless he has made up his mind religiously against somthing?
Or could prove that Jesus did not die on the cross or perhaps never lived. Both of which would be near nigh impossible to prove.
Kind of like denying the economy is not getting better under President Trump, just because hate blinds you, in spite of all the facts.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
Quote TheGhostofOtto1923 "so why would you think jesus died on the cross?
"
Why would anyone believe otherwise, unless he has made up his mind religiously against somthing?
Or could prove that Jesus did not die on the cross or perhaps never lived. Both of which would be near nigh impossible to prove
Except that the ONLY evidence we have is found in a book full of verified lies. Which might be ok if it told us that he was some guy who preached love and peace but it tells us that he rose from the dead.

Not even you would believe that if not for all those wonderful promises of immortality, all your wishes granted, retribution, absolution, etc.
Kind of like denying the economy is not getting better under President Trump, just because hate blinds you, in spite of all the facts
I dont think you understand what facts are. They dont depend on wonderful promises.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
Bart_a

Hey bart, why dont you try refuting my PROOF your god doesnt exist? You know, rather than the usual 1/5 bitchslap-

And no s_e_u, otto is no a_theist. I dont think we need separate words for a_nonsense.

I'm an antireligionist. As in, actively working to spread truth for the purpose of destroying your caustic murderous superstition.

says goO1923

The opposite of an atheist is Theist, which goO is clearly not, in spite of being somewhat knowledgeable in biblical text - something in which most any seminarian should be adept.

The anti-religionist has morphed into the role of a religionist by having become, and professing to be, an anti-religionist, obsessed with destroying the faith and beliefs in God the Creator and His Holy Angels.
-CONTINUED-
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
-CONTINUED-
If you could, it is apparent that you would destroy God the Creator Himself.
However, you will never have the ability to do that since you are a mere mortal, in spite of being demonically possessed. The only thing you are capable of is to lead your followers astray. You will continue until your own destruction, while eventually, many of your followers will turn against you when they find out the real truth which you will never acknowledge.

Yahoshuah was a product of science, FYI. Only God the Creator, as well as the first Scientist, has the ability to turn Energy into Matter, whereas scientists have been trying to do the same, but fail and will always fail.
Yahoshuah was pure Energy turned into Matter and born of woman. That was His particular destiny - to die to save the sinners of His time who were too stupid to know better.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
Apparently yes. I'm not into religious stuff at all
-so why would you think jesus died on the cross?
What's the point of such a God?
The god of abraham required you to believe that unbelievers are evil. He invokes the tribal dynamic and endorses the persecution of his enemies... your enemies.

He is a powerful wespon.
says goO1923 to rderkis

Crucifixion was a common sentence to death for those who were found to be criminals during the time of Yahoshuah. Another method was stoning. But the favored method was dying on a wooden cross - a slow and probably painful way to die.

Before Yahoshuah was conceived and born of woman, He was a Holy Angel. He would have volunteered to become human, being First Son, thereby condemning His mortal body to eventual crucifixion. But the rewards He would attain afterwards would be far greater than the excruciating pain He was to bear.
The Holy Angels are all the Sons of God, by the way.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
-CONTINUED-
"The god of abraham required you to believe that unbelievers are evil. He invokes the tribal dynamic and endorses the persecution of his enemies... your enemies.

He is a powerful wespon."
says goO1923 to rderkis

The peoples of Mesopotamia and Canaanites and their neighboring nations worshipped many false gods/goddesses. They had all forgotten the God of Creation and no longer worshipped Him. This was all after the time of Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth and Noah's grandchildren. They all migrated out to different lands and eventually forgot the True God, and began worshipping stone idols. It is for that reason why God declared all these idol worshippers His enemy. The enemies were not persecuted - they were killed when they refused to acknowledge that their idol worship was wrong. But there wee those who did acknowledge the One True God and returned to worshipping HIM - and they were saved from destruction. Avram was an idol worshipper before he changed.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
does not disprove the existance of God.

What's the point of such a God? Such an entity would be like the orange tree growing outside the universe. Wonderful to imagine, but pointless otherwise.
says nowhere

You could turn that around also and say, "What's the point of MY existence?" OR "What's the point of human existence?"

If the planet Earth were to suddenly disappear from under your feet, would you also say, "What's the point of the planet Earth?" No, you would not. You would be in a great panic and wonder what happened. You would want it back and everything the way it was.

So, it is the same with the existence of God the Creator. If not for God, YOU and everyone else would never have existed. You would not even be flailing around in outer space, because there would not BE an outer space.
rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
Quote Surveillance_Egg_Unit "
would be far greater than the excruciating pain He was to bear.
"
If you are talking physical pain, that was nothing. And certainly not why he sweated drops of blood in the garden.
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2018
That cloth has already been revealed as fake by dating. But nice to have more data.

Are you all crazy?
I do not doubt the shroud is a fake but proving it is anouther matter unless you can resurrect and bring the individual back from the dead in the same manner Jesus was resurrected(Which most likely would affect the shroud). As far as you non believers - prove scientifically what your saying. After all your God is science.


The "Jesus" myth has no historical person linked to it. As for "gods", we already know they don't exist.

First, religions are now meaningless since there is no "ghost", "soul", "gods", or "afterlife" reward. It was already marginal by thermodynamics applied to our complex brain, but the LHC accelerator proved it beyond reasonable doubt. Several physicists agree - particle physicist Brian Cox mentioned it specifically in a "The Infinite Monkey Cage" episode 2017, and Neil deGrasse Tyson accepted it - and I knew this previously.

[tbctd]
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 25, 2018
[ctd] Second, there are no "gods" action in this universe, which is the only plausible universe due to its basis in general relativity. The Planck probe final data release came last week, and it was consistent across amplitude and polarization data on their own and combined. The magic entities - cannot be normal matter due to LHC - and their doing work has to compete with measurement uncertainty at 1/1000 of everything: the universe is completely natural beyond reasonable doubt.

Third - but still arguable, just mentioning predictions for you to look forward to - the data release could pinpoint eternal slow roll inflation as preceding the local universe. Here quantum fluctuations makes inflationary volumes faster than they roll down to local universes. That means each universe is the result of an eternal random series of quantum fluctuations until randomly there isn't one. Note here, religious "nothing" does not exist. And laws likely are anthropic selection bias.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
Quote Surveillance_Egg_Unit "
would be far greater than the excruciating pain He was to bear.
"
If you are talking physical pain, that was nothing. And certainly not why he sweated drops of blood in the garden.
says rderkis

Precisely. Yahoshuah was prepared for the physical pain of crucifixion. He knew what was expected of Him and He prepared for it in that garden by prayer. He had good friends who cared for his physical welfare, but they already knew that Yahoshuah had to complete what He was destined to do. I cannot explain WHY He sweated drops of blood. Perhaps He was concerned for His mother and worried what was to become of her afterwards...like the good Son that He was.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Jul 25, 2018
Quote Surveillance_Egg_Unit ->
Perhaps He was concerned for His mother and worried what was to become of her afterwards...like the good Son that He was.


He sweated drops of blood because he was destined to go to hell, and he knew it.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
@rederkis
Yes. He would enter into Hell/Sheol with all the sins of the people of the time, whose sins He had taken upon Himself. But even though it is a horrible place, He knew that He would only be there temporarily. When Satan had tried to tempt Yahoshuah and He resisted, He knew that Satan/Lucifer would be angry, enough to give Him a lot of grief in that place. But nevertheless, His Soul would be tested as to how much punishing He could take in Hell from the Devil. All the sins had to be accounted for, and punished. And when He emerged from Hell, His Soul returned to His body. The heavy stone was rolled away from the entrance to the cave, and He was free. Some of His Disciples saw Him and spoke with Him. Thereafter, His human body, composed of Matter, returned to the form of Pure Energy that the Creator and His Holy Angels are made of. Matter transmuted into Energy.

But I am also certain that He was concerned about his mother's welfare. She was only human, after all.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
[ctd] Second, there are no "gods" action in this universe, which is the only plausible universe due to its basis in general relativity. The Planck probe final data release came last week, and it was consistent across amplitude and polarization data on their own and combined. The magic entities - cannot be normal matter due to LHC - and their doing work has to compete with measurement uncertainty at 1/1000 of everything: the universe is completely natural beyond reasonable doubt.


says t_b_g_[

Of course there are no "gods" (plural). The ancient Mesopotamians and others were punished with death because of their idolatry of false gods. This is the ONLY Universe that we KNOW. All other Universes are merely theoretical and conjecturing over a glass of beer.
GR doesn't apply to the Spiritual World which, of course, you and so many others wouldn't know about.
Glad that the LHC is doing well and found more particles. But I still don't trust it.
jonesdave
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2018
GR doesn't apply to the Spiritual World which, of course, you and so many others wouldn't know about.


How come you know about it? Got special knowledge, have we? Or are you just making sh1t up?

rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
He knew that Satan/Lucifer would be angry, enough to give Him a lot of grief in that place.


I think what scared him and hurt him the most was knowing he would be separated from God for 3 days.
As for his mother I am fairly sure he had access to the book of life and knew that his mother's name was written in it before the foundations of the world.
rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2018
I can suffer an agnostic because those could be men of reason, logic and science, but a atheist or anyone that says that they KNOW what exists and what does not exist in all the solar systems, galaxies, multi universes and dimensions that might exist, must think of themselves as Gods, to possess that much knowledge.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2018
GR doesn't apply to the Spiritual World which, of course, you and so many others wouldn't know about.


How come you know about it? Got special knowledge, have we? Or are you just making sh1t up?

says jones

Absolutely. I DO have special knowledge about it due to my many experiences, which is why I am able to expound on these topics with ease.
GR applies to the material - the existence of Matter in the form of gases, solids, etc. such as what comprises the Periodic Table of Elements. There is nothing Spiritual about GR or SR. It explains well what exists as Matter and that can be detected easily with the 5 senses or with the help of specialised hi tech instruments. It isn't by accident that the Spiritual Realm cannot be seen by human eyes or instruments, which are based on human eyes.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (4) Jul 26, 2018
He knew that Satan/Lucifer would be angry, enough to give Him a lot of grief in that place.


I think what scared him and hurt him the most was knowing he would be separated from God for 3 days.
As for his mother I am fairly sure he had access to the book of life and knew that his mother's name was written in it before the foundations of the world.
says rderkis

I won't venture to guess what was on Yahoshuah's mind as He made good His promise to carry out His mission - even spending time in Hell/Sheol was a part of that mission, almost like a soldier in a war zone who has to complete what he came there to do.

I have a lot of admiration for the Man, as well as in the Spiritual sense.
You are most likely right about His mother's name being in the Book of Life, and of course, Yahoshuah was a Son of God, and therefore would join the Creator, His Father.
SteveS
3 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2018
He knew that Satan/Lucifer would be angry, enough to give Him a lot of grief in that place.


I think what scared him and hurt him the most was knowing he would be separated from God for 3 days.
As for his mother I am fairly sure he had access to the book of life and knew that his mother's name was written in it before the foundations of the world.
says rderkis

I won't venture to guess what was on Yahoshuah's mind as He made good His promise to carry out His mission - even spending time in Hell/Sheol was a part of that mission, almost like a soldier in a war zone who has to complete what he came there to do.


Comments guidelines: please read before you post.

Avoid political and religious discussions: Because of the complexity and ambiguity of this subject matter, political and religious discussions are not allowed.

https://sciencex....omments/
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2018
Does anybody understand that this egg unit guy is a smelly little troll who is just making this up as he goes?

Are you having fun smelly troll? Nothing better to do?

Reminds me of the classic pussytard socktrain.
rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2018
Comments guidelines: please read before you post.
Avoid political and religious discussions: Because of the complexity and ambiguity of this subject matter, political and religious discussions are not allowed.

Then why did a religious article appear here, if it's not to be discussed?
And why do political articles appear here to?
rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2018
Quote theghostotto
Does anybody understand that this egg unit guy is a smelly little troll who is just making this up as he goes?
Are you having fun smelly troll? Nothing better to do?
Reminds me of the classic pussytard socktrain.

If this is not the purest form of cyberbullying what is?
I am putting him back on my ignore list. I suggest all of you do the same.
theghostotto has probably even put himself on the ignore list.

If you see someone bullying and you don't speak up and be a hero, you are as guilty as the person bullying. A large number of those active shooter cases are people who have been bullied and no one spoke up in their defense..
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2018
Rdorkus has not been here long enough or on the web long enough to have experience with the kind of vandals that often show up here.

If you read mr eggs comments above it's obvious he is attempting to play people by making bullshit up off the top of his head.

This is the kind of thing some people do to get attention and there's no reason it should be tolerated HERE.

Sorry rdorkus if you're too gullible and naive to avoid being taken in by this kind of lowlife.
Avoid political and religious discussions: Because of the complexity and ambiguity of this subject matter, political and religious discussions are not allowed
Haha funny joke.
Captain Stumpy
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2018
Comments guidelines: please read before you post.

Avoid political and religious discussions: Because of the complexity and ambiguity of this subject matter, political and religious discussions are not allowed
@SteveS
no offence but, in case you hadn't noticed, it also says "no pseudoscience"... and the comments section is riddled with that BS, from the electric cult malarky to the anti-AGW crowd (likely funded)

I have provided the site with a means to moderate using minimal permissions changes and no financial output on their part, but it appears that isn't something they're concerned about

it's one reason this place is overrun with trolls and idiots and most of the more respectable educated posters have left
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4 / 5 (4) Jul 26, 2018
Comments guidelines: please read before you post.

Avoid political and religious discussions: Because of the complexity and ambiguity of this subject matter, political and religious discussions are not allowed.

https://sciencex....omments/

says Steve S

If you had read the article thoroughly, you might have noticed that it says this: "They also noted that the Bible reported that Jesus had been stabbed in the side with a spear—to mimic such a wound, the researchers attached a sponge to a wooden stake, soaked it with blood and then used it as a spear to impale a mannequin."

and this:
"—the Bible reports that the body of Christ was put in the shroud after death. They conclude by claiming that it would have been impossible for the blood stains on the shroud to have originated in the way the Bible describes; therefore, they say the shroud is a forgery."

-CONTINUED-
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2018
hey eggy, what's wrong?
did I hit too close to home for you?
If you had read the article thoroughly, you might have noticed that
if you were actually capable of reading what SteveS wrote you would note that he was quoting the comment guidelines

to explain what the quote means using small words for you, and typing slowly, because I know you can't read fast:
it means don't engage idiots like you who are fanatical in their belief and can't accept empirical evidence that proves them to be wrong

the reason why rational people should avoid this type of interaction is provided in your own comments above
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4 / 5 (4) Jul 26, 2018
-CONTINUED-
@SteveS
Yes this is a science site. And these are Scientists who are determining what the Bible says --
1. about the death of Jesus Christ
2. about the body of Jesus Christ
3. about the Shroud of Turin

These "Scientists" have concluded that the Shroud of Turin is a fake. And it may very well be. The article itself, is written by Bob Yirka of Phys.org. As I haven't read the links in the article yet, I can only ASSUME that the current DOI would also refer to Jesus Christ. Now why do you think that is, Steve?

They determined that the Shroud is a forgery. They NEVER said that Jesus Christ is a forgery.

And yet, here on a science site, Jesus Christ has been mentioned, as well as His death and His body. But ONLY the Shroud is determined to be fake.

And with all of this talk of Jesus/Yahoshuah, you and two others have the utter gall to bitch and moan about my explanation of the life and death of Yahoshuah? You need to renounce your demons that you don't believe in
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4 / 5 (4) Jul 26, 2018
Clicking on the DOI link. Unfortunately, I couldn't access the paper: "A BPA Approach to the Shroud of Turin* due to the paywall and required membership. But the article by Bob is sufficient with enough information to understand the science.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2018
They NEVER said that Jesus Christ is a forgery
Jesus is a forgery. Everybody says jesus is a forgery. Even many committed xian theologians have come to the conclusion, that jesus is a forgery.

Just like youre a forgery.

"Preachers Who Don't Believe — The Scandal of Apostate Pastors
"The study was conducted by the Center for Cognitive Studies at Tufts University, under the direction of Daniel C. Dennett and Linda LaScola. Dennett, of course, is one of the primary figures in the "New Atheism" — the newly aggressive and influential atheist movement that has gained a considerable hearing among the intellectual elites and the media.

Dennett is a cognitive scientist..."

-and committed antireligionist, one of the 'Four Horsemen'.

Dennett has even founded a recovery network for recovering clergy.
rderkis
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2018
theghostotto- You have stated over and over that you only state the facts, but that is obviously a lie and your post here is intentional fake news because of it.
I personally feel that the shroud is not the shroud Jesus used.
Quote theghostotto intention lie. "Everybody says Jesus is a forgery." I KNOW that is a lie. There are millions if not billions of people that know Jesus is the son of God. Is their anybody else here that is dumb enough to believe "EVERYBODY says Jesus is a forgery."
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2018
Quote theghostotto intention lie. "Everybody says Jesus is a forgery." I KNOW that is a lie.
@herp-a-derp-kis
if you "know" it is a lie then you can produce empirical evidence that it is a lie

except that you can't produce anything other than this:
There are millions if not billions of people that know Jesus is the son of God. Is their anybody else here that is dumb enough to believe "EVERYBODY says Jesus is a forgery
nonsensical argument - assuming what you argue is true, then:

there are more people who disagree with your christian beliefs and don't believe in jeebus at all

so by your own argument, it's far more likely that jeebus didn't exist than he did

moreover - there is absolutely no empirical evidence for his existence, even though he lived in the time of a prolific record writing culture

worse still, the history of the bible, it's historical changes and it's falsehoods (which otto notes continuously here on PO)
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Jul 27, 2018
Quote theghostotto intention lie. "Everybody says Jesus is a forgery." I KNOW that is a lie.
@herp-a-derp-kis
if you "know" it is a lie then you can produce empirical evidence that it is a lie

Yes I can say categorically testify that I do not say "Jesus is a forgery".Except to deny I would say that.
So EVERYBODY does not say that.
So all you proved here is that you intently perpetuate that lie.
I love science and believe if you are going to talk like a person that strives to understand science you need to be precise. Everybody is/means everybody. with not even one exception.
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 27, 2018
@herp-a-derp-kis
So all you proved here is that you intently perpetuate that lie
I am not "intently perpetrating" anything

it appears you're having an issue with language again

it would also help if you would learn how to quote other posts in your communications
I love science
that's debatable
if you are going to talk like a person that strives to understand science you need to be precise. Everybody is/means everybody. with not even one exception
then I suggest you start taking English lessons and learn a bit more (links relevant - need I say more?)

https://phys.org/...low.html

https://phys.org/...nes.html

SteveS
3 / 5 (2) Jul 27, 2018
-CONTINUED-
@SteveS
Yes this is a science site. And these are Scientists who are determining what the Bible says --
1. about the death of Jesus Christ
2. about the body of Jesus Christ
3. about the Shroud of Turin


The article is about a scientific study of the shroud of turin, in this case the information held in the bible was relevant to the study.

Your comment had nothing to do with the article, and was in fact just unadulterated off topic theology.

Why is it that you feel that rules don't apply to you?

@Captain Stumpy

no offence but, in case you hadn't noticed, it also says "no pseudoscience"... and the comments section is riddled with that BS,


None taken, I fully agree. My ignore list is getting longer each day, and it's quite depressing that on some threads the majority of comments just show as "Comment posted by a person you have ignored"
nowhere
3 / 5 (2) Jul 27, 2018
does not disprove the existance of God.

What's the point of such a God? Such an entity would be like the orange tree growing outside the universe. Wonderful to imagine, but pointless otherwise.
says nowhere

You could turn that around also and say, "What's the point of MY existence?" OR "What's the point of human existence?"[...]

I don't need to. I can test for my existence. I have an effect on things. The God he is talking about, the one you can't disprove, is pointless because it doesn't do anything. If it did anything at all, anything, we could test it. So what is the point of something that does nothing?
Whart1984
Jul 27, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
2 / 5 (4) Jul 27, 2018
@whart's and all
But Jesus was stabbed just hanging less or more upright
except that (as noted above) the body would have been bathed and wiped before application of the shroud
I dunno what these guys tried to simulate
try actually reading the abstract or the study. they explain it
And just on the basis of this study another one has been retracted?
no
the retracted study was based on the analysis of a single fibre, plus it's explained in the link provided
Eww.. someone's very silly here
is that a declaration or are you confused a bit more?

Whart1984
Jul 27, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Jul 27, 2018
neither reason for it at the case of Jesus burial.


It is not common here ether but you must not be a father. I would do it if it was my son.
Sometimes even in science a little common sense is in order.
Captain Stumpy
2 / 5 (4) Jul 27, 2018
@whart-brain
It wasn't common praxis in these times
https://en.wikipe...ractices

https://en.wikipe...ractices

https://www.jesus...law.html

"Among the Jews there was an anointing with spices, when such could be afforded, to retard the stench of decomposition" (Borchert, 282)

see also: John 19:40
This is common praxis in contemporary forensics
that depends on the sample size, you idiot
And it apparently didn't prohibit the successful peer-review and acceptation of study before more than year
so?
the fact that it's retracted demonstrates not only that science works but that someone brought up valid points requiring retraction

rderkis
3.7 / 5 (3) Jul 27, 2018
You call people you don't know "idiots", yet it NEVER crosses you mind that there could be other reasons for it's retraction. Your world is so insulated that it never occurs to you that there are a great many people who would gladly die for their beliefs or even gladly KILL not only you but your entire family for those beliefs.
Perhaps pressure was applied is why the last study was retracted. :-(
Of course other reasons would be cited.
This is not how I picture modern day christians but it has happened in the past and probably in the present.

But don't worry NO ONE could possibly find out who you are behind that nick name.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (3) Jul 28, 2018
it never occurs to you that there are a great many people who would gladly die for their beliefs or even gladly KILL not only you but your entire family for those beliefs
Im puzzled. Are you saying these are admirable qualities??? They are exactly the reasons WHY religions must end before they end us all.

Thing is, because current-day religions have all survived by being better at outgrowing and overrunning their now extinct competition, they make violence INEVITABLE.

Martyrdom of oneself and ones family BTW is the most despicable form of violence there is.
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 28, 2018
@herp-a-derp
You call people you don't know "idiots", yet it NEVER crosses you mind that there could be other reasons for it's retraction
if you're talking to me:
1- learn to f*cking read, you idiot
because
2- I said that was *one* reason
I also said "plus it's explained in the link provided" because there were several other reasons linked

I called him (and you) an idiot because it's demonstrably true
(as in: it has empirical evidence supporting the claim and verifiable in any court as a valid assessment of your behaviour)
Perhaps pressure was applied is why the last study was retracted
or perhaps, as I stated, the scientific method works
Of course other reasons would be cited
because Science
Your world is so insulated that it never occurs to you that...
says the religious zealot
hypocrisy much?
This is not how I picture modern day christians
I'm not a christian
I'm an Oglala

2Bcont'd
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 28, 2018
@herp-a-derpkis cont'd
But don't worry NO ONE could possibly find out who you are behind that nick name
sigh
this again?

1- I'm not anonymous. just ask Otto
2- it's not a nickname, it's a call sign
3- if you're feeling froggy, by all means, jump.

I'm not anonymous, nor am I afraid of some illiterate internet poster making subtle threats because he/she/it was outed as being an idiot on a science news aggregate
there are a great many people who would gladly die for their beliefs or even gladly KILL not only you but your entire family for those beliefs
implied threat?

you forget that I may well be among that number, ya idiot
LMFAO

.

these are admirable qualities?
@Otto
IMHO - getting rid of religion won't take this away. that mindset or type of person will always find something worth killing/dying for, and any gov't will be able to train their subjects to fight for something
meh
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 28, 2018
Nonexistent gods are not worth dying for. Especially when they themselves show you how to do it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 28, 2018
1- I'm not anonymous. just ask Otto
geez i dunno that guy with the beard flipping me the bird could've been anybody. That doc was shooped because of the pixels.

I know pixels when i see them.
Whart1984
Jul 28, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2018
on this very forum... ;-)
hey zeph - you still in the same flat as you were when you were using the sockpuppet "dethe"?
...because he is living in flat. But if somebody is planing a trip to Prague, he can say Hello to Dethe. Here is his name, adress, email and phone number:
Admin Name:Milan Petrik
Admin Organization:Milan Petrik
Admin Street: Molakova 34/577
Admin City:Praha 8
Admin Postal Code:18600
Admin Country:CZ
Admin Phone:+420.0123456789
Admin Email: milanpetrik@atlas.cz

https://phys.org/...lel.html

that is also common knowledge
(you do realise that running your own Reddit forum for your aether cult allows people to track you down, right?)
LOL

Whart1984
Jul 29, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2018
Captain Stumpy: do you think http://uivtp.cs.c...petrik/?
WTF does that even mean?

did your google translate break?

Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2018
It is a pointless exercise in nincomppoopery to attempt to prove or disprove the existence of a creator deity. Such a fabulous creature would have no need of your affirmation.

Frankly & Ernestly, I would recommend continuing with the present state of mutual indifference for one another's existence.

Considering the chaotic bungling by the Great Dust Bunny-in-the-sky? Ignoring is bliss!
says rrwillsj

Perhaps ignoring the Presence of God the Creator and His Holy Angels is permissible, for the simple reason that He is a Spirit that your human eyes and ears cannot see/hear/detect. But what is NOT permissible is the ignoring by humans of God's Laws. Those Laws are all for the good of humanity and the Earth over which he has dominion. Break the Laws and you must suffer the consequences of your actions.

Any chaotic bungling is, and has been on the part of the humans whose bungling ways self-propagates at various levels of chaos.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 29, 2018
You call people you don't know "idiots", yet it NEVER crosses you mind that there could be other reasons for it's retraction. Your world is so insulated that it never occurs to you that there are a great many people who would gladly die for their beliefs or even gladly KILL not only you but your entire family for those beliefs.
Perhaps pressure was applied is why the last study was retracted. :-(
Of course other reasons would be cited.
This is not how I picture modern day christians but it has happened in the past and probably in the present.

But don't worry NO ONE could possibly find out who you are behind that nick name.
says rderkis

Calling people "idiots" and "liars" amongst other distasteful and false epithets seems to be a way for Captain Stinky to uplift his own ego while demeaning others with insulting and abusive verbiage. This is the normal way for Stinky to attract needed attention to justify his presence in these Comment Forums.
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Surveillance_Egg_Unit
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 29, 2018
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@rderkis
Captain Stinky has a clearcut case of Dunning-Kruger effect whereby he seems to be unaware of his own faults but settles on his perceived faults of other commenters. I have read that he lives in the valley of a mountain somewhere in the northwest, and likely is a cult member of something like the adoration of Baphomet ring. Which would explain why Stinky is so hateful of God the Creator. It is best to ignore this craven creature and his water-bucket boy, Theghostofotto1923.
Such creatures of darkness are only able to find joy in vexing the humans who are suckered in by their ad hominem and abusive language. There may be some commenters who might enjoy being verbally lashed, thinking that somehow they deserved it. But I don't think that you are of that type. So ignore the louts and be done with it.
Cheers
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jul 30, 2018
Scientists conclude that the Shroud of Turin a fake because it did not occur naturally
Well yeah. They proved somebody faked it.
The way to disprove the shroud is to take crucial part of the cloth, one necessary to produce the image, not something that could be added later, and to test its age
No, the way to disprove it is to show that the goop that makes the image is fake. Which they've done.

I repeat - the GOOP that makes the IMAGE is FAKE.
Jonseer
not rated yet Aug 03, 2018
Clearly, people believe what they want, but the figure itself simply doesn't look real.

The hands are bizarre for starters. No human being has fingers like that.

The chest is likewise inhuman in shape, proportion, and placement.

I guess people are so easily fooled because they focus on the face, which is the most realistic part of it, BUT when looked at in total and while NOT focusing on the face it's pretty clear it's not the figure of anyone or anything that was ever alive.

As for the face, it looks far more like a cartoonish Byzantine art of some sort rather than a human face.

On the head, I see a pointed helmet to boot!

It looks like the image of the head of a statue put on top knight's armor for the chest.

The arms are so wrong, they looked like they were drawn in by a drunk person.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Aug 03, 2018
And... it's a caucasian. At least not a canaanite jew. A copy of the first lie you see when you open the book.

"Jesus' right arm and hand are abnormally elongated, allowing him to modestly cover his genital area, which is physically impossible for an ordinary dead body lying prone."

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