Study finds Texas voter photo ID requirement discourages turnout

This week marks the 50th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act. This week also marks a watershed ruling by a federal appeals court striking down the controversial Texas voter ID law as violating that landmark civil rights act.

A new study conducted by the University of Houston Hobby Center for Public Policy and Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy examines the impact of the contested Texas law in U.S. Congressional District 23 (CD-23).

The study suggests that the most significant impact of the Texas voter photo ID law on voter participation in one particular district was to discourage turnout among registered voters who mistakenly believed they did not possess the correct photo identification.

"One of the most striking findings of this study is that potential voters who did not vote actually did possess one of the valid forms of photo ID," said Jim Granato, professor and director of the Hobby Center for Public Policy. "An important issue to be explored is not just the voter photo ID law itself, but the actual education and outreach efforts to ensure all eligible voters understand what form of photo ID may be used to vote."

Spanning a large geographic area in west and south Texas, CD-23 is a Latino majority district with Hispanics accounting for 65.8 percent of the district's voting-age population and 58.5 percent of its registered voters. It is also widely considered to be the only one of the state's 36 U.S. House districts that is competitive for both Democratic and Republican Party candidates. A telephone survey of 400 registered voters who did not vote in CD-23's November 2014 election was conducted in English and Spanish by the Hobby Center for Public Policy's Survey Research Institute.

The 5.8 percent of the CD-23 non-voters stated the principle reason they did not vote was because they did not possess any of the seven forms of photo identification required by the state. More than twice that many (12.8 percent) agreed their lack of any one of the seven photo IDs was a reason they did not vote. However, when further queried about the different forms of photo identification in their possession, the survey revealed that a much lower proportion (2.7 percent), in fact, lacked one of the seven needed to vote in person.

The study also found Latino non-voters were significantly more likely than Anglo non-voters to strongly agree or agree that a lack of photo ID was a reason they did not cast a ballot in the Nov. 4 contest.

The findings suggest that the presence of the law and its potential impact on the outcome of that election kept far more supporters of Pete Gallego, D-Alpine, the then-freshman incumbent representative, away from the polls than those who supported the district's ultimate winner of the election, Will Hurd, R-San Antonio.

"Our expectation is to build on this initial case study by analyzing additional Texas congressional districts and investigating other states' voter ID laws," Granato said. "Broadening the study to examine the extent to which voter fraud exists is another interesting avenue to explore."


Explore further

Requiring photo ID has little effect on voter turnout, MU study finds

More information: The study, titled "The Texas Voter Photo ID Law and the 2014 Election: A Study of Texas' Congressional District 23" can be found at www.uh.edu/class/hcpp/_docs/voteridcd23.pdf
Citation: Study finds Texas voter photo ID requirement discourages turnout (2015, August 7) retrieved 19 July 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2015-08-texas-voter-photo-id-requirement.html
This document is subject to copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purpose of private study or research, no part may be reproduced without the written permission. The content is provided for information purposes only.
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EWH
Aug 07, 2015
So people who didn't understand the law were less likely to vote. This 10% also likely have poor knowledge of lots of other things and is exactly the demographic that should be discouraged from voting if one wants votes that aren't based on ignorance. Voting is a less personally rewarding right, and so in a real sense a less important right than most others, for example the right to start a business. Voting also has very little effect on government compared to publishing essays, let alone donating money to campaigns. Why shouldn't voting require just as many hoops to jump through as the exercise of more important rights such as building a house, running a business, registering a vehicle or buying a gun?

Ignorant people should be discouraged form voting to at least the same extent and in the same way that they are discouraged from piloting aircraft. I'd settle for just making it as difficult as boarding an airliner.

Aug 07, 2015
@EWH

Yes, you should be discouraged from voting.

Aug 07, 2015
Vet in many states you need a photo ID to purchase alcohol or cigarettes. Also if any government allows someone to vote who is not eligible to do so then the importance of your vote and my vote is diminished. Voter fraud is a huge issue in the US. This is especially true today because the votes have been very close in many areas of the country. If you cannot bother to get a voter ID card you do not deserve the right to vote.

Aug 07, 2015
As a matter of fact why limit voting at all? If 100% voting is such a noble goal then allow voting over cell phones. Let 5 year olds vote, they have rights too. We already have a problem with people voting multiple times so why limit multiple voting to just those willing to break the law. Remember, text your vote to "It's a new and equal world". Please limit yourself to 50 votes per candidate or you will receive a really nasty letter.

Aug 07, 2015
@MR166

Show me evidence of voter fraud but first read my link.

http://www.snopes...raud.asp

Aug 08, 2015
Democracy has always been an inconvenience to those with wealth and power. Citizens United was the last nail in the coffin.

Aug 08, 2015
Vet do you think that it is unfair that only citizens of the US are allowed to vote? If not, should we require that people entering the voting booth prove they are citizens before they vote?

EWH
Aug 08, 2015
Vietvet, Snopes is frequently wrong. The article you linked gives some evidence for voter fraud (but not the best evidence, see Black Box Voting) and then just hand-waves it away. At any rate, the idea that good decisions are more likely by extending the franchise to the most ignorant is obviously foolish. If anyone who isn't institutionalized is advocating such nonsense, then the question has to be asked: "why? what's their real aim?". The divide between the Rep. (white) and Dem.(abnegating whites and vibrants) parties on the issue reveals the likely motive: the whites running the Dem. party think that their vibrant supporters are felons, non-citizens, or too dimwitted or lazy to get an ID. So voter ID is bad for the Dems.. The Reps. think the same thing about the Dem. base, plus that they do retail voting fraud (Reps. just hack the tabulator wholesale). It also gives the parties an issue to argue about publicly while they collaborate against the electorate and the Constitution.

Aug 09, 2015
Also Vet, in theory, someone or some organization could induce/bribe 1000,s to register to vote and then vote for them if valid IDs are not required at the polls. In CT, the state where I live, we are required to show some form of official ID before we can vote. I cannot see the problem with that.

Aug 09, 2015
@MR166
@EWH

I'll have a detailed response but not today maybe not until Tuesday. It's a serious subject and I need uninterrupted time to build my arguments.

Aug 09, 2015
@MR166

Show me evidence of voter fraud but first read my link.

http://www.snopes...raud.asp


How can there be evidence of voter fraud when id's are not required?

That there has not been voter fraud in the past (an assumption not provable without id's),... does not ensure there won't be a voter fraud epidemic in the future. It is an irrelevant argument. If you have not been robbed, why lock your door.

That democrats reject something as simple to obtain as an id, in itself, should be regarded with suspicion sufficient to justify requiring voter id's.

Aug 09, 2015
"That democrats reject something as simple to obtain as an id, in itself, should be regarded with suspicion sufficient to justify requiring voter id's."

Brilliant point Noumenon and I am not just saying that because I thought the same exact thing.

Aug 10, 2015

How can there be evidence of voter fraud when id's are not required?


Easily, and in much the same way evidence is collected in most crimes, through eye witness accounts or circumstantial evidence like discrepancies in voting records.

Aug 10, 2015
Also Vet, in theory, someone or some organization could induce/bribe 1000,s to register to vote and then vote for them if valid IDs are not required at the polls.


Unless these individuals are voting out of their precinct or voting multiple times, this isn't voter fraud.

Aug 10, 2015
Vet do you think that it is unfair that only citizens of the US are allowed to vote? If not, should we require that people entering the voting booth prove they are citizens before they vote?


Disenfranchising a population of American citizens to prevent a handful of non-citizens from voting is bad policy. The last place someone who is breaking immigration law is going to show up is a voting booth. They would be far too concerned about getting deported to show up to try and illegally vote.

Aug 10, 2015
At any rate, the idea that good decisions are more likely by extending the franchise to the most ignorant is obviously foolish.


Wow... be careful here. If you're advocating for IQ tests to establish voting rights, I'm not sure this is going to swing the election in your party's favor. In any case, our democracy has been hijacked. You either get corporate owned candidate (R) or corporate owned candidate (D) (Bernie Sanders excluded).

Aug 10, 2015
Also Vet, in theory, someone or some organization could induce/bribe 1000,s to register to vote and then vote for them if valid IDs are not required at the polls.


Unless these individuals are voting out of their precinct or voting multiple times, this isn't voter fraud.


I anybody other than the registered voter votes in their stead THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF VOTER FRAUD.

Aug 10, 2015
"Disenfranchising a population of American citizens to prevent a handful of non-citizens from voting is bad policy. The last place someone who is breaking immigration law is going to show up is a voting booth. They would be far too concerned about getting deported to show up to try and illegally vote."

People died in order to insure our freedoms and our right to govern ourselves!!! You are trying to tell me that it is too much of an imposition, even disenfranchising, to obtain and show a proper ID. The only people who do not want to get an ID are people living outside the law who do not want to get caught.

Tell me there is no fraud when names like Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck appear on the voting roles.

Aug 10, 2015
Finally there are well know cases of voting fraud that had a huge impact on important elections, JFK and the fraud in Illinois that got him elected being the most famous example.

Aug 10, 2015
.....our democracy has been hijacked. You either get corporate owned candidate (R) or corporate owned candidate (D) (Bernie Sanders excluded).


Bernie Sanders is a socialist. This means he advocates the government hi-jacking the greatest economy in human history. Corporate owned candidates seem like geniuses in comparison.

Aug 11, 2015

I anybody other than the registered voter votes in their stead THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF VOTER FRAUD.


Thanks for clarifying. And this isn't happening... ANYWHERE in our country.

Aug 11, 2015

People died in order to insure our freedoms and our right to govern ourselves!!! You are trying to tell me that it is too much of an imposition, even disenfranchising, to obtain and show a proper ID. The only people who do not want to get an ID are people living outside the law who do not want to get caught.


Yes. And why would "people living outside the law" show up to vote anyway? If they're too afraid to get an ID then they wouldn't be voting. In reality, the individuals disenfranchised by voter ID are not criminals at all, but are often vulnerable populations like the poor or elderly. I would hope that your enthusiasm for our "right to govern ourselves" extends to those of limited means or ability.

Aug 11, 2015

Bernie Sanders is a socialist.


No, I'm a socialist. Bernie Sanders is a centrist, and most Americans agree with his ideas.
https://s3.amazon...DF-1.pdf

Aug 11, 2015
Finally there are well know cases of voting fraud that had a huge impact on important elections, JFK and the fraud in Illinois that got him elected being the most famous example.


Old news, and not something that Voter ID would have prevented.

Aug 11, 2015
"No, I'm a socialist. Bernie Sanders is a centrist, and most Americans agree with his ideas."

Good God!!!! So I suppose that Hillery Clinton is a Right Wing Radical in your eyes.

Aug 11, 2015

Bernie Sanders is a socialist.


No, I'm a socialist. Bernie Sanders is a centrist, and most Americans agree with his ideas.


If you think Sanders is a centrist, you're an idiot. He admits to being a (democratic) socialist.

Most Americans categorically do NOT agree with socialism. He has zero chance of being elected. The only thing he will accomplish if he runs as an independent is to separate votes between the clueless and the ignorant.

Aug 11, 2015
"A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast"

http://www.washin...ts-cast/

Aug 11, 2015
"The voter fraud phantom drives policy
that disenfranchises actual legitimate
voters, without a corresponding actual
benefit."

https://www.brenn...er-fraud
http://www.brenna...ut-fraud
http://www.brenna...-reports

"Comprehensive Database of U.S. Voter Fraud Uncovers No Evidence That Photo ID Is Needed"
http://votingrigh...n-fraud/

"Zero Statistical Evidence of Voter Fraud in North Carolina, Expert Testifies in Voting Rights Trial
Long-Time Educator Also Shares Impact of Voter Suppression Law on Students"
- See more at: http://www.advanc...pgY.dpuf


Aug 11, 2015
"In The Myth of Voter Fraud, Lorraine C. Minnite presents the results of her meticulous search for evidence of voter fraud. She concludes that while voting irregularities produced by the fragmented and complex nature of the electoral process in the United States are common, incidents of deliberate voter fraud are actually quite rare. Based on painstaking research aggregating and sifting through data from a variety of sources, including public records requests to all fifty state governments and the U.S. Justice Department, Minnite contends that voter fraud is in reality a politically constructed myth intended to further complicate the voting process and reduce voter turnout."

http://www.amazon...01448484

Aug 11, 2015
Well Vet I am glad that you feel that the lives of all the service men that came before you were not lost in vain to the corrupt political system we have today.

Aug 11, 2015
Well Vet I am glad that you feel that the lives of all the service men that came before you were not lost in vain to the corrupt political system we have today.


@MR166

As money is the biggest source of political corruption I take it you would favor over turning Citizens United or least enacting stringent reporting laws for PACS.

Aug 11, 2015
Actually Vet we might be on common ground here. Political influence is a HUGE problem. I would be in favor of limiting all political contributions to a dollar amount. Also limit it to actual live individuals thus excluding corporations, PACS and unions. Also reasonable term limits are a must.

Aug 11, 2015
While we are at it let's limit another huge source of graft otherwise know as speaking fees.

Aug 11, 2015
I assume that most of us her are familiar with the US stock market rules about insider trading. Why does the fact that members of Congress are exempt from these rules not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling???

Aug 12, 2015
"No, I'm a socialist. Bernie Sanders is a centrist, and most Americans agree with his ideas."

Good God!!!! So I suppose that Hillery Clinton is a Right Wing Radical in your eyes.


She's a neo-liberal, and has economic policies similar to most republicans, including her stance on free trade (NAFTA, CAFTA, TPP), healthcare (Obamacare was crafted by the Heritage Foundation and adopted by Mitt Romney), and Wall Street regulations (Bill is responsible for the repeal of Glass Stegall, which set the stage for the financial collapse of 2008)

Aug 12, 2015

If you think Sanders is a centrist, you're an idiot. He admits to being a (democratic) socialist.


I don't care what he calls himself, unless he's pushing for public ownership of the means of production (which he is not) then he's not a socialist. He is a strong advocate of a European style mixed economy, similar to the Swedish model. And his policies are quite mainstream and supported by most Americans. See this article:
http://billmoyers...sanders/

Aug 12, 2015
Actually Vet we might be on common ground here. Political influence is a HUGE problem. I would be in favor of limiting all political contributions to a dollar amount. Also limit it to actual live individuals thus excluding corporations, PACS and unions. Also reasonable term limits are a must.


Sanders would agree! Sounds like you're feelin' the Bern...

Aug 12, 2015

If you think Sanders is a centrist, you're an idiot. He admits to being a (democratic) socialist.


I don't care what he calls himself, unless he's pushing for public ownership of the means of production (which he is not) then he's not a socialist.


Of course, typical of the far left, he is not going to come out and state clearly his socialist ideology during campaign speeches, for otherwise he would loose supporters. Far left democrats and leftist independents require their voter base to be ignorant. ...."we'll find out what's in the bill once it's approved by congress"

I know what socialism is. Sanders in fact does desire "social ownership of the means of production",... he is anti-capitalism,.... he is a socialist. Anyone who thinks they can improve on 'free' market capitalism of the USA via government that can't even manage a budget, is plainly a imbecile. He has zero chance.

Aug 12, 2015
"Anyone who thinks they can improve on 'free' market capitalism of the USA via government that can't even manage a budget, is plainly a imbecile."

Noumenon that is the problem he is not an imbecile just like Obama is not and imbecile. They both are very smart and persuasive men who think that the American system is inherently unfair.

This makes them very dangerous. They appeal to a large base in the US who have been told since birth by the media and schools that the system keeps them from succeeding.

Aug 12, 2015
Noumenon that is the problem he is not an imbecile just like Obama is not and imbecile. They both are very smart and persuasive men who think that the American system is inherently unfair.


Obama believes that it is appropriate that government address "economic inequalities", despite that such things are natural consequences of freedom and capitalism,... and therefore not logically "problems to be solved", in such a economic system. However, Obama believes that "free market capitalism is the greatest force for economic progress in human history". Thus Obama is not an imbecile, despite being wrong wrt inappropriate use of subjective "fairness" and role of government.

Sanders does not believe in the Obama quote above. He is an imbecile.

Aug 12, 2015
" Why does the fact that members of Congress are exempt from these rules not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling???"
----------------------------------------

Why not ask your hard-line Republican Congress?

Are they all out looking for "legitimate rapes"?

Aug 12, 2015
So efforts to identify people as legal voters should be tossed out because people are either not willing to obtain the necessary forms of identification or didn't put in enough effort to educate themselves as to what was required? We again seem to pander to the lowest denominator.

Aug 12, 2015
jeff knows the entire idea was to reduce the number of Democratic voters. Conservatives cannot win an honest election. They need Diebold and "rob georgia:" to get what they want.

Aug 12, 2015
jeff, look up "Diebold" with "rob georgia" and see what you find.

Aug 12, 2015
Gkam things are really looking up for you and your beliefs. Hillary is pretty much toast and Obama will put her in jail if she tries to run. That leaves the door open for your boy Bernie Sanders. He will finally institute the type of government of which you approve. God Bless America, she really needs his help.

Aug 12, 2015
We had the guvmunt of which you approved, and you still haven't PAID for it!

The entire 200+ year-old National Debt was LESS than one trillion dollars when Reagan got it, and almost TRIPLED it in only eight years! Then, we added the costs of the Bush Wars, and the Great Republican Economic Meltdown, in which we lost 40% of the value of America. It took Obama and the Decent Folk almost a decade to get it back on track.

Did you look up Diebold and "rob Georgia"?

Aug 12, 2015
Well Gkam there is one more Democratic hopeful bright spot. All the voters are clamoring for a president that tells the truth and it seems that one of the biggest jobs of the presidency is the ability to say " I don't know anything about that".
Joe Biden fits the bill perfectly since he is lucky to remember his home address. So he can truthfully say that he knows nothing.

Aug 12, 2015
It took Obama and the Decent Folk almost a decade to get it back on track.


LOL, by time Obama leaves office he will have doubled the national debt. This is a fact.

Aug 12, 2015
Did you look up Diebold with "rob Georgia"?

Aug 12, 2015
Did you look up Diebold with "rob Georgia"?
Either the asshole doesnt know how to post a link or he is hiding the fact that he is foisting yet another lie.

Post the link yourself george.

Aug 12, 2015
"Did you look up Diebold with "rob Georgia"?"

GKam were you the one who first detected all of those "Hanging Chads" that supposedly got Bush re-elected? In retrospect it must have been a Republican plan to create punch cards so durable that a senior citizen would be unable to have enough strength to vote for Gore. Damm those crafty Republicans!!!!

Aug 12, 2015
The entire 200+ year-old National Debt was LESS than one trillion dollars when Reagan got it, and almost TRIPLED it in only eight years! Then, we added the costs of the Bush Wars, and the Great Republican Economic Meltdown, in which we lost 40% of the value of America.


The debt was 11 trillion when Obama took office. Now it's 18 trillion. Obama added more to the debt than Bush. Why complain about Bush but not Obama?

Democrats voted to fund the Iraq war. Democrats lowered mortgage lending qualification standards. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were a gov toilet for sub prime mortgages. That's part of what happened in 2008. Cause and effect.


Aug 12, 2015
Noumenon I was going to bring up those exact points to Gkam but it is really not worth the effort since his position cannot be changed by something as irreverent as historical facts.

Aug 12, 2015
"The debt was 11 trillion when Obama took office. Now it's 18 trillion. Obama added more to the debt than Bush. Why complain about Bush but not Obama?"
----------------------------------

Only Congress can raise the taxes necessary to cover the costs of government. The Bush tax give-aways to millionaires, billionaires and BIG corporations has made it impossible to pay off the Reagan/Bush National Debt. You conservatives locked us into outstanding debt forever, since your owners get to do the lending.

If you are worried about it, you can always pay for the Bush Wars.

Aug 12, 2015
Yup Gkam that fact that Obama has never submitted a budget in six years and yet the government continues to spend 11 trillion over what it takes in cannot possibly be blamed on the Democrats!!!!!!!!

Aug 12, 2015
You can always pay for the Bush Wars. Many of us tried and tried and tried to tell you, but you folk needed to have those killings so you could feel powerful.

Now, you do not want to pay for it.

Aug 12, 2015
Did you look up Diebold with "rob Georgia"?


Truce for a minute glam-Skippy, okayeei?

I looked him up on the Google-Skippy and I don't mind admitting that it is stuffs I am having trouble understanding.

Which election is the one that robbed? Was it in Georgia? I could not find out that. All I could find was a bunch of arguementing about the system is good and the system is bad. But nothing about any particular elections.

I have plenty of trouble with regular easy computer using so all that really complicated stuffs makes my head ache. So dumb down the explanation but not so dumb as to just be slogans and bumper stickers please. I mean none of the Sarah Palin type postums you usually make.

Aug 12, 2015
" I mean none of the Sarah Palin type postums you usually make."
-------------------------------

Not a good way to say "pretty-please".

I will write it up for you, but it will take some time, since I am sharing my time with a five-month-old. He is much better behaved than you-know-who. Gotta take care of him first.

Aug 12, 2015
I will write it up for you,


I would appreciate that me. All I could find from asking Google-Skippy was something about they sold some stuffs that had some bugs in the computer programs that maybe could be a problem. I did not find about the election in Georgia getting stole.

Aug 12, 2015
If'n I remember right, it was about a computer programmer who noticed how elections which used Diebold voting machines returned results unexpectedly high for Republicans. Then, when he heard the president of Diebold say he would do "anything" to ensure the election of Dubya, the computer guy hacked into the files of Diebold. When he found the folder with the program for the devices in Georgia, it was titled "Rob Georgia"

That election, the results differed vastly from both the polling before and the exit polls which all showed Chambliss losing handily. Diebold said he won.

Black Box Voting arose about that time, too. Check 'em out. They just want to find ways to trust the voting system.

Aug 12, 2015
Then, when he heard the president of Diebold say he would do "anything" to ensure the election of Dubya, the computer guy hacked into the files of Diebold. When he found the folder with the program for the devices in Georgia, it was titled "Rob Georgia"

That election, the results differed vastly from both the polling before and the exit polls which all showed Chambliss losing handily. Diebold said he won.


All I can find is about Diebold using a unsecured interweb place to store some program codes and a reporter found them by asking Google-Skippy. The thing they found was a file called rob.georgia.zip They didn't say nothing about the Georgia election getting tampered with. All I can find is that Diebold was sloppy about making the machines unhackable and wanted to keep selling them.

Maybe you can find a story linkum for me because I would like to know what it is about. About actual vote stealing I mean.

Aug 12, 2015
"Clarkson became more interested in the issue after reading a paper written by statisticians Francois Choquette and James Johnson in 2012 of the Republican primary results showing strong statistical evidence of election manipulation in Iowa, New Hampshire, Arizona, Ohio, Oklahoma, Alabama, Louisiana, Wisconsin, West Virginia and Kentucky."

Read more here: http://www.kansas...link=cpy

Something stinks in Kansas and it isn't voter ID fraud.

Aug 12, 2015
Something stinks in Kansas and it isn't voter ID fraud.


And other places it looks like too. I never ever voted for a Republican since I first started voting about 23 or 22 years ago and would be really mad if one of my votes got counted for them. Louisiana is on that list too, and Louisiana Democrats are bad enough so I don't know why they would be stacking the deck for Republican-Skippys. Choot, most of our Democrats are more Republican than Republicans. Well maybe not as bad as the Tea-Partying-Skippys but still pretty bad.

Aug 12, 2015
"Maybe you can find a story linkum for me because I would like to know what it is about. About actual vote stealing I mean."
-------------------------------------

Okay. I'll have to mix it in with other stuff, so it'll take a while. I haven't looked into it for over ten years, and my references are on old disk drives I have saved.

Aug 12, 2015
"Choot, most of our Democrats are more Republican than Republicans. Well maybe not as bad as the Tea-Partying-Skippys but still pretty bad."
---------------------------------------
Stop it.

I'm agreeing with you.

Aug 13, 2015
Sanders in fact does desire "social ownership of the means of production"


Wrong. I'll let conservative George Will make my point:
"Does any stricture of journalistic propriety or social etiquette require us to participate in Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders's charade? Is it obligatory to take seriously his pose of being an "independent" and a "socialist"? It gives excitable Democratic activists a frisson of naughtiness to pretend that he is both. Actually, he is neither."

Aug 13, 2015

Of course, typical of the far left, he is not going to come out and state clearly his socialist ideology during campaign speeches, for otherwise he would loose supporters.


If he was worried about that, then why would he call himself a democratic "socialist"? On the one hand you say he's trying to conceal his socialism, but then he labels himself one. You're sounding inconsistent.

Aug 13, 2015

Of course, typical of the far left, he is not going to come out and state clearly his socialist ideology during campaign speeches, for otherwise he would loose supporters.


If he was worried about that, then why would he call himself a democratic "socialist"? On the one hand you say he's trying to conceal his socialism, but then he labels himself one. You're sounding inconsistent.


No inconsistency at all. Just the facts. He has regarded himself as a democratic socialist,... just not during present campaign speeches that i'm aware of. I'll take Sanders opinion of himself over Will's opinion of Sanders, to error on the side of caution.

........

If there are no voter id's required then de facto there can be no quantifiable evidence of voter fraud, therefore that argument is a fallacy.

Aug 13, 2015
Ira, if you want evidence of Republican misdeeds, I'll send you some. They got me into trouble when I was on the Federal Grand Jury.

We were lied into all the Bush Wars. The first one was the invention of a PR group, Hill and Knowlton, I think. They put a girl to testify in Congress that the Iraqis took Kuwaiti babies from their incubators and threw them on the ground to die as they stole the incubators. It was under oath, and a direct lie. She was no nurse, she was secretly the daughter of the Kuwaiti Ambassador, who wanted to get the nation back for the Emir, who used to own it. We did that for him, after that purjored testimony.

Poppy Bush had already given Saddam permission to invade Kuwait through our ambassador, April Glaspie, saying we had no position on intra-Arab squabbles. So WE okayed the Kuwait invasion, then used it for politics, with more than a few consequences.

Aug 13, 2015
Here in CT we have numbered paper ballots where you vote by filling in a box next to the persons name with a pencil. It is then read by a scanner. Thus there is an electronic and paper record of each vote cast. Also we have to show ID at the poles. This seems to be a very secure way to vote that should not be able to be easily to tamper with.

Aug 13, 2015
Here is a start on the Kuwait stuff.

http://www.prwatc...y10.html

http://whatreally...RAQ.html

https://msuweb.mo...rut.html

I will send some stuff by email.

Aug 13, 2015
Ira, if you want evidence of Republican misdeeds, I'll send you some. .


Skippy I asked specifically about the Diebold cheating on elections. I know all about all the various misdeeds and such like. You made a claim about the Georgia elections, that is what I am asking about because that is the one I have not heard about.

Aug 13, 2015
Here is a start on the Kuwait stuff.
I will send some stuff by email.


Don't send me stuffs on emails, I don't have time for more foolishment like that last foolishment. I think you are at it again, I know all about Kuwait stuffs but that is not what I am asking.

If you make the mistake about the Georgia elections and Diebold rigging them just say so..

Aug 13, 2015
Look it up yourself.

Aug 13, 2015
jeff knows the entire idea was to reduce the number of Democratic voters. Conservatives cannot win an honest election. They need Diebold and "rob georgia:" to get what they want.


I don't identify with any party. I'm interested mainly in Independent candidates because I blame both major parties and their selfishness for the way our government "works" today. Just out of curiosity, is there a natural flaw in Democratic voters that makes them more susceptible to confusion when asked for a photo ID?

Aug 13, 2015
They got me into trouble when I was on the Federal Grand Jury.


I think what might have got you into trouble is somebody asking you one thing and you answering some different question then you pretending like answered the first question.

You got this bad habit of making the statement, then going off into left field when you get asked about it because you made something up hoping nobody would bother to ask about him.

Aug 13, 2015
Look it up yourself.


I did look him up. Just like you asked the first time. And you was telling a not so true tale about misdeeds. There is nothing to find when looking it up that sounds anything like what you were making it out.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and asked you to back up what you were saying and once more you prove to us that you make up stuffs and hope nobody will check.

If you really want to help the Democrats and the peoples sitting on the left side of the room maybe you would consider changing sides and joining the Tea-Partying-Skippys. You are hurting, not helping the cause Cher.

Aug 13, 2015
"I think what might have got you into trouble is somebody asking you one thing and you answering some different question then you pretending like answered the first question."
--------------------------------------

First of all, in the process, I ask the questions. We grill the witnesses, not the other way around. Second, you have NO IDEA at all what takes place behind those sets of locked doors.

I am one who thinks we should end Grand Jury Secrecy, which just protects the government from The People knowing what is done in their name.

Aug 13, 2015
If'n I remember right, it was about... Okay. I'll have to mix it in with other stuff, so it'll take a while
Translation: 1) Ive got to write something up myself because I lied.
2) Its not something that exists on the net which I can link to, because its something I made up myself; IOW I lied.

George kamburoffs word is worthless whether its in a post or in something you 'write up'.
And you was telling a not so true tale about misdeeds.
Well of course. Psychopaths are pathological liars.

Aug 13, 2015
I think what might have got you into trouble is somebody asking you one thing and you answering some different question then you pretending like answered the first question
"Psychopaths are notorious for not answering the questions asked them. They will answer something else, or in such a way that the direct question is never addressed. They also phrase things so that some parts of their narratives are difficult to understand. This is not careless speech, of which everyone is guilty at times, but an ongoing indication of the underlying condition in which the organization of mental activity suggests something is wrong. It's not what they say, but how they say it that gives insight into their true nature."

George youre a psychopath. The evidence that you yourself have willingly provided is conclusive.
Look it up yourself
They are also notoriously gutless.

Aug 13, 2015
The GOP even offered free government supplied id's with free transportation and delivery.

This proves that the notion that they "what to disenfranchise minority voters" is a complete fabrication, designed in fact to disenfranchise the republican voice from minority's ears (as yet another means of implying the GOP is racist).

Obviously if one is capable of registering to vote, they are capable of obtaining an id to vote. It is de facto suspicious otherwise.

Aug 13, 2015
"In 1999, Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore (Republican) attempted to start a pilot program that required voters to show IDs at the polls. His initiative was blocked by Democrats and the NAACP, and was stopped by court order. His administration had spent and mailed $275,000 worth of free voter ID cards to residents in Arlington and Fairfax counties."

Democrats and the NAACP were against this. Hmmmm.

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