UN weather meeting agrees to refine climate data

Feb 24, 2010 By JIM GOMEZ and FRANK JORDANS , Associated Press Writer
Indonesia President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, right, talks to director of the U.N. Environment Program Achim Stiener, left, during an opening ceremony of the 11th special session of the Governing Council/Global Ministerial Environment Forum in Nusa Dua, Bali, Indonesia on Wednesday, Feb 24. 2010. (AP Photo/Firdia Lisnawati)

(AP) -- World weather agencies have agreed to collect more precise temperature data to improve climate change science, officials said Wednesday, as U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged environment ministers to reject efforts by skeptics to derail a global climate deal.

Britain's Met Office proposed that climate scientists around the world undertake the "grand challenge" of measuring land surface temperatures as often as several times a day, and allow independent scrutiny of the data - a move that would go some way toward answering demands by skeptics for access to the raw figures used to predict climate change.

"This effort will ensure that the datasets are completely robust and that all methods are transparent," the Met Office said. The agency added that "any such analysis does not undermine the existing independent datasets that all reflect a warming trend."

The proposal was approved in principle by some 150 delegates meeting under the auspices of the this week in Antalya, Turkey. It comes after e-mails stolen from a British university and several mistakes made in a 2007 report issued by the U.N.-affiliated Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change prompted public debate over the reliability of climate change predictions.

Skeptics claim scientists have secretly manipulated and suppressed contrary views - allegations that have been denied by researchers and the climate change panel.

Nevertheless, the Met Office said current measurements were "fundamentally ill-conditioned to answer 21st century questions such as how extremes are changing and therefore what adaptation and mitigation decisions should be taken."

Ban Ki-moon urged environment ministers meeting in Bali, Indonesia, on Wednesday to reject attempts by skeptics to undermine efforts to forge a climate change deal, saying global warming poses "a clear and present danger."

In a message read by a U.N. official, Ban referred to the controversy over the 2007 climate panel report that drew widespread criticism and calls for the panel's chairman, Rajendra Pachauri, to resign.

The report's conclusion that Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035 turned out to be incorrect, an error that bolstered arguments from climate skeptics that fears of global warming are overblown.

A U.N. conference in Copenhagen in December failed to achieve a binding deal on curbing greenhouse gas emissions. But Ban said it was important that the confrence set a target of keeping keep global temperatures from rising, and established a program of climate aid to poorer nations.

"To maintain the momentum, I urge you to reject last-ditch attempts by climate skeptics to derail your negotiations by exaggerating shortcomings in the ... report," Ban said at the start of an annual U.N. meeting of environmental officials from 130 countries on the Indonesian resort island of Bali.

"Tell the world that you unanimously agree that climate change is a clear and present danger," Ban said.

Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa said his country will hold an informal meeting of all environmental ministers and officials in Bali on Friday to discuss how to reach a binding treaty in Cancun later this year on greenhouse gas reductions.

A U.N. study issued Tuesday said countries will have to significantly increase their pledges to cut greenhouse gas emissions to prevent the catastrophic effects of .

Sixty nations - including China, the United States and the 27-member European Union - met a Jan. 31 deadline to submit pledges to the U.N. for reducing greenhouse gases as part of a voluntary plan to roll back emissions. Together the countries produce 78 percent of the world's greenhouse gases from burning fossil fuels.

Countries set a target in Copenhagen of keeping the Earth's average temperature from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) above the levels that existed before nations began industrializing in the late 18th century.

Scientists believe global emissions must be cut in half by mid-century to avoid the melting of glaciers and ice caps, the flooding of low-lying coastal cities and islands, and worsening droughts in Africa and elsewhere.

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mikiwud
1 / 5 (3) Feb 25, 2010
(AP) -- World weather agencies have agreed to collect more precise temperature data to improve climate change science, officials said Wednesday, as U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged environment ministers to reject efforts by skeptics to derail a global climate deal.

They still don't get it! More fudge to prove AGW mantra, not to IMPROVE CLIMATE UNDERSTANDING and SCIENCE!!
They should be investigating all possibilities, not trying to prove their agenda.
This will take at least 10 years to get even an idea of what may be going on. By then the western ecconomies will have been destroyed by green taxes before they can say oops! got it wrong.

mary_hinge
2 / 5 (4) Feb 26, 2010
Yet more fudge...right. They should make sure they include Astrology as a reason, the climate septics of South Dakota do! http://legis.stat...009P.htm
mary_hinge
2 / 5 (4) Feb 26, 2010
Another thing about the South Dakota house wanting schools to teach astrology, isn't that against bible teachings? Will they ask schools to teach 'Angle Glue' instead to gravitational theory? Maybe they will teach them how thermological dynamics change the climate....
Skeptic_Heretic
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 01, 2010
Just as Gore believes that the temperature of the Earth is a few million degrees once you decend a mile or two, right mary?

Both sides fo the argument have their zealots. Try listening to neither.

Here you have an article that states explicitly
"the Met Office said current measurements were 'fundamentally ill-conditioned to answer 21st century questions such as how extremes are changing and therefore what adaptation and mitigation decisions should be taken.'"

You have Phil Jones, keeper of the CRU record telling you that there has been no statistically significant change in temp over the past 2 decades...

There's a time to posture, and a time for discovery. It's discovery time, be a bit more humble about your stance.
JayK
1 / 5 (4) Mar 01, 2010
We're up to Phil Jones saying 20 years now?

Amazing how he's able to keep changing that interview, even 3 weeks later. The man is a god.
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (2) Mar 01, 2010
Sorry, 15. My deepest apologies for a typo.

At least it was only off by 5 and not 270 years, or "peer-reviewed" for that matter.
JayK
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 01, 2010
I think mary_hinge's comment pretty well deals with the idea that scientists that understand the conclusions and support them should be "humble". America is just becoming another home to a virulent anti-intelligence movement. Humble scientists aren't going to be the ones standing up to that amount of stupidity.
Skeptic_Heretic
3 / 5 (2) Mar 02, 2010
America is just becoming another home to a virulent anti-intelligence movement.
If the intellectual movement is content in being one with rampant alarmism and overblown false predictions, consider me anti-intellectual.
mary_hinge
2 / 5 (4) Mar 02, 2010
....be a bit more humble about your stance.

I don't think you understand the importance of what has happened in South Dakota. They want our kids to learn astrology as an alternative to AGW? Creationists have been trying the same track and very nearly succeeded. There is a strong anti-science movement in the states now, this is not the time to be 'humble', this is the time to make sure we don't enter a scientific dark ages where science educations consists of bible teachings and astrology.
Incidentally it's not just the astrology reference so damning about this legislation, read the rest, http://legis.stat...009P.htm it is anti-science, inaccurate and misleading.
It' a shame that SH doesn't condemn this but seems to support it by being 'anti-intellectual', but I guess there are a lot more like him, like the 40% who believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old...

Skeptic_Heretic
4.5 / 5 (2) Mar 03, 2010
Mary,

You're wrong. It is not a vein of anti-intellectualism, it's a rampant sense of political correctness.

If the more politically correct amongst us realize that 90% of what people have to say is utterly foolish, then perhaps you wouldn't have this problem.

It's simple, when someone wants to teach something that is incorrect in a science class you tell them to screw and stay screwed. If you can't do that, then the issues in your state lie with the legislators. Vote them out.

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