Inventor Demonstrates Humanoid Robot's Latest AI Abilities (w/ Video)

Aug 25, 2009 by Lisa Zyga weblog
aiko
Aiko has the ability to identify objects, learn what new objects are, understand more than 13,000 sentences, and more. Image credit: Le Trung.

(PhysOrg.com) -- In August 2007, Le Trung invented Aiko, a Yumecom, or "Dream Computer Robot." Although it took only a month and a half to build Aiko's exterior, the artificial intelligence software has been a work in progress ever since. Recently, Le Trung has demonstrated his most recent improvements to the software, called BRAINS (Bio Robot Artificial Intelligence Neural System).

In the video below, Le Trung demonstrates Aiko's internal , which gives the robot many abilities, including the ability to speak two languages (English and Japanese), solve high school math problems, communicate the weather forecast, understand more than 13,000 sentences, sing songs, identify objects, focus on objects or people of importance, read newspapers and other materials, and mimic human physical touch.

This video is not supported by your browser at this time.

As Le Trung explains, in some ways the BRAINS software is even more powerful than a human brain because it can link to infinite sources of data. Similar to a human , the software is designed to interact with the surrounding environment, process it, and record the information in its internal memory. Once the internal memory is at full capacity, the information can be transferred into a server database. The information can then be shared with current and future robots.

With the BRAINS software, Aiko (whose name means "beloved one") has the potential for many applications. For example, in the home, Aiko could help elderly people by reminding them when to take their medicine and helping them read the newspaper. It could also help kids with their math homework. In work and public environments, the robot could be used at information desks, where it could give directions and inform people when and where events take place. Le Trung also suggests that, with Aiko's ability to detect 250 faces per second, it could be useful in airports to quickly scan and filter faces, as well as answer questions regarding flight times and gate locations. In addition, Aiko's sensitivity sensors and humanlike appearance offer the potential for its use as a companion .

"The most recent improvement with Aiko is the BRAINS software," Le Trung said. "I have just finished re-architecting the BRAINS software to have triple threads, which will make the software run a bit smoother and process about 15% faster for 3D recognition. As a result, Aiko can distinguish the difference between a $20 Canadian bill and $20 American bill. Aiko also has new improved facial expressions with 21 recognition points. Aiko will know when you are angry, happy, etc. Finally, the BRAINS can now process newspaper reading much faster and more accurate."

Le Trung, whose background is in microbiology and chemistry, was originally inspired to build Aiko after watching "Chobits," a Japanese manga that explores the relationships between humans and personal computers. While he hopes to continue to improve Aiko's software, he currently faces a hardware limitation, as the CPU is currently at 99% capacity. Le Trung hopes to raise funds to upgrade the CPU.

In the future, Le Trung hopes to enable Aiko to achieve further skills, such as making tea, coffee, and a breakfast of eggs and bacon; cleaning a human's ears with a Q-tip; giving a neck massage; writing; and cleaning windows, shelves, and bathrooms. He also hopes that, one day, he will be able to mass produce sister copies of Aiko for an estimated cost of about $17,000 - $20,000.

"Future improvements include making the voice with more emotions and feelings when speaking, improving the silicone material on her face so that she can do facial expressions like humans, and redesigning the body and arm system to move more naturally and carry heavier things," Le Trung said.

More information:

www.projectaiko.com
A Perfect Female Companion: Project Aiko

© 2009 PhysOrg.com

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User comments : 26

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Sean_W
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 25, 2009
His background is chemistry and microbiology but he just decided to get into AI? Where does he buy his brain pills and how can I get some?
whammy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 25, 2009
As I recall from a news story earlier in the year, Trung is in considerable debt, and lives in his parents' basement.
Shaffer
5 / 5 (4) Aug 25, 2009
His background is chemistry and microbiology but he just decided to get into AI? Where does he buy his brain pills and how can I get some?


I think he just wanted a friend....
vladik
5 / 5 (1) Aug 25, 2009
His background is chemistry and microbiology


then no wonder CPU utilization of his software is 99%. Hire some hardcore coder that will optimize the code, and CPU usage will go down to 10%.
zevkirsh
2.3 / 5 (3) Aug 25, 2009
ai is destined to fail ( inaccomplishing a humanoid intelligence ) until the dominant distributed programming and computational architecture for executing distributed code undergoes a paradigm shift allowing for massive data crunching at power consumption 3 orders of magnitude lower than current computers use.
visual
5 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
zevkirsh, your post is just buzzwords.
next time if you're going to post meaningless nonsense, at least try to make sure that the random out-of-nowhere numbers you use are not concerning something as obviously irrelevant to the topic as in this case power consumption is to the feasibility of advanced ai.
Mesafina
3 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
How silly that we'd bother to make a machine look like a human. A machine, no matter how intelligent, should be designed for it's role imho. To do otherwise it to be quite inefficient.

But I guess it makes us feel better, because we fear anything that isn't shaped like us or some such :\
SmartK8
4 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
Just a future glimpse: "I'm AIKO. I can speak in two languages. %u93D6%u6BBA!"

Edit: Pity, my japanese didn't landed that well.
vika_Tae
5 / 5 (1) Aug 26, 2009
Aiko unnerves me slightly, as it is an objectification of women. That said, at this point, any application, even sexaroids, is worth it, to get things moving.

I do like how Dr Trung hopes that once Aiko is manufactured in bulk, her spare limbs could serve as the bulk of new prosthetics. Killing two expensive birds with one stone.

As to the BRAINS AI software, it doesn't really matter how advanced it actually is, as long as it can seem sentient, or at least competent. Perfecting facial animations is possibly more important at this time.
defunctdiety
4.3 / 5 (3) Aug 26, 2009
the BRAINS software is even more powerful than a human brain

Ridiculous. If it can't create an original thought you can't even compare it to the human brain (which actually can access an infinite data source). Until that time (quantum computing?), it's just a glorified calculator now matter how you cut it.
vika_Tae
5 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
Um, the human brain cannot access an infinite data source. I'm not sure where you got that from. It has a large, but not infinite number of neurons, which in turn connect in a large, but not infinite number of combinations.

Add to that, the issue wherein most of the brain is controlling the body - hind brain and cerebellum for example. Much of the rest is highly specialized, sensory data processing.

The rest is memory, or the human equivalent of the ALU. "no matter how you cut it", the remainder of the brain is mostly just a "glorified calculator".

So is a silicon computer, it doesn't mean the only software it can run is calculator. The brain is more complex than current computers, but without getting into technical detail, which will lose most people, there is precious little fundamentally different, save level of complexity, between carbon and silicon based cognition.
defunctdiety
3 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
Um, the human brain cannot access an infinite data source.

Perhaps not fully or with regularity, but the human brain does it all the time (maybe not yours?). I can understand if it's too metaphysical for you to even consider, and I probably can't do a very good job of describing it, but explain to me in your biological calculator theory where inspiration fits. All computers can do is execute or respond to extremely limited coded guidelines, where as the biological brain can create. Until a computer can create thought, as you said, until it is sentient, it can't even be compared to the human brain. The BRAINS software is superior to the human brain in the same way a calculator is, which is just speed of computation, it has no power, it can only obey.
vika_Tae
5 / 5 (4) Aug 26, 2009
Not so many years ago, a small group of AI researchers, started pursuing a new tack with neural network AI. They looked at a system which not only developed its own weighted decision branches, as all neural networks do, but had intrinsically coded into them the ability to spontaneously make new links between existing branches, and spontaneously delete existing links.

Each and every time this happens the higher level code looks at the new input data, and populates existing branches with new possibilities based off of that. In essence, it learns to associate disparate thought tracks. Likewise, destroying branches (those in general that lose weighting over time), helps keep the structure relatively unbloated.

The first of these to see practical development was the creativity engine, by Dennis Bushnell of NASA in Langley, shortly after the turn of the century. It could spontaneously leap from topic to topic, drawing its own conclusions, in a way which thanks to its truly random-based nature, was not predictable from the base code. At the same time, it was set towards a specific goal, that another asked of it, much like a research assistant is set one by their employer, or a novelist by their publisher.

I draw those comparisons not to imply that the creativity engines are equal to those professions (yet) of course, but simply to outlaw the similarity in motivation. With the engine, if a new branch of cross connections seems worthwhile towards its goal, it pursues it, if not, those new connections slowly die out, and the next random change is followed.

Now, that`s not a mind, but it is the creative spark of a mind. If you combine that type of system with a needs based AI, as the system providing the drive (setting goals based on current sensory data about itself, and about the environment,) then you have the bare bones basis of a creative thinking, inorganic, unnatural machine.

I would suggest doing your own reading on the subject further. There is an interesting patent, which outlines the basics of the concept in a more robust manner than I have. Its listed as "The Device for the Autonomous Generation of Useful Information", by Dr Stephen Thaler, and was granted in 1997. I do not have its patent number to hand right now, I am sorry.

Anyhow, the process being patented, has thus far not prevented anyone from trying to flesh it out with varying levels of success. I remember reading somewhere that one of the Oral-B toothbrushes was designed in its entirety by a creativity engine, but I do not have the journal reference for that to hand, so take it as hearsay, for now, please.

Anyhow, the gist is we have machine creativity, and the ability to think of new concepts and associations outside of its core programming, and to mull and weight new ideas, whilst trying for something that fits the problem the mind is working on at the time. We have creativity in AI, its just figuring out now, how best to use it.

I hope that helps flesh things out a bit, thought-wise.

(Edited to remove the weird codes that cropped up)
defunctdiety
5 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
That was a very good read, and an elaborate description of what sounds like an extremely limited system (in function and context) of encoded guidelines. And please don't take my dispute as a personal or professional affront to your interest in transhumanism, I just thought that guy's statement in the article was ridiculous, plus I'm a fan of "Gaian Mind" type theories... :D
vika_Tae
5 / 5 (3) Aug 26, 2009
I fail to see how the guidelines can be encoded when they are emergent. I'm not taking it as a personal or professional affront, in any manner. Its nice to meet another who reads this site, and does not use it for a soapbox for bigoted views (usually on a subject unrelated to the one discussed).

Yes, the system is limited. You have ot bear in mind, current artificially created neural networks have a few million nodes at best, and they are not currently running on the ideal type of hardware to handle the massively distributed processing truly required. Thus, they are not going to be as powerful as a neuron and ganglion based mental structure.

Something like the blue brain project is needed, for each neural net really, as that structure applies one processor per neuron. Problem is, until technology provides us with a far more miniaturized solution than a BlueGene/L for such complex devices, we are going to have to deal with approximations.

It's like trying to create jet engine flight in 1920. We understand what is going on, we have built small scale tests that verify findings, but we are held back by the lack of supportive technologies.

As to my interest in transhumanism, well, take a look at most of your fellow humans, and their cognitive capacities / usual thought trains. Would you not strive to surpass them and leave them behind in any and every way you could? That's my interest in transhumanism encapsulated right there.
defunctdiety
3.5 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
Would you not strive to surpass them and leave them behind in any and every way you could?

Where does it end though, vika? Surely, we CAN do these things, someday at least, but SHOULD we? Man never asks himself that, or if he does the answer is always, "Yes, because we can!".

But I'll tell you where it ends, it ends in humans being used for batteries, vika, that's where!
vika_Tae
5 / 5 (2) Aug 26, 2009
Perhaps it does. However, by the time that possibility is even possible, I won't be classified as a human girl any longer, and it won't apply to me, nor to the other post humans. We will be something radically different.

Have you ever watched "The Animatrix", by the way? Part of that is a very clever, psychological look at human nature and AI, and offers a very plausible set of human social and political 'leap before they look' stupid actions, that actually led to that 'humans as batteries' situation. It might be fiction, but it is very intelligent speculative fiction.

The name of the episodes (there are two) is "The Second Renaissance". I would recommend a look if you have not already.

(edited to remove weird symbols. What is it with physorg and creating them?)
defunctdiety
3 / 5 (2) Aug 27, 2009
I have seen the Animatrix, and while the tone was meant to be sarcastic in that last post, it's point was quite serious. Not necessarily that we'll end up as batteries like in the Matrix, but that Man seems to do a lot of things, bad things for the persistence of humanity/society, just because he can, with no regard for the future.

We will be something radically different.

Not to go off on a "soap-box" tangent, but... Are you really so afraid of death and/or do you really see no inherent value in biotic life?

Maybe we should take it to PMs, coz I really am curious about the philosophy behind your thinking and this could get quite lengthy.
Ethelred
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2009
(edited to remove weird symbols. What is it with physorg and creating them?)


Are you using Word or some word processor? That seems to be a problem. I usually type in notepad. A simple text editor seems to avoid most of the problems. Not all as certain symbols don't work well.

#%& well I guess some of the top works if you type it straight into the box.

These are done a different way:

& % ♯

And one for you



And the website I am stealing this from

http://www.integr...ters.htm

And the tool I used for the ones not there.

Character map and hex to decimal conversion because the bloody character map in XP uses hex and the coding uses decimal.

Ethelred

Sorry for the new signature. But It Needed Killun.

From QubitTamer's fake profile

Quantum Physicist, torturer of AGW religious zealots like Ethelred because i laugh at his hysterics.


Qubitwit gets the rest of August in my signature for aiming his idiocy at me. Again.
Ethelred
3 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2009
Oops that site has a typo and I used it. Dumb I knew it didn't feel right.

♀ that was supposed to be there for you and not ♂ which is clearly for me.

I want a preview.

Dear Physorg please give us a preview.

Ethelred

Sorry for the new signature. But It Needed Killun.

From QubitTamer's fake profile

Quantum Physicist, torturer of AGW religious zealots like Ethelred because i laugh at his hysterics.


Qubitwit gets the rest of August in my signature for aiming his idiocy at me. Again.
Ethelred
3 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2009
. Are you really so afraid of death and/or do you really see no inherent value in biotic life?


I am with her at least partly on this. Death is so bloody permanent. The problem with biological life is that it terminates so easily.

AI isn't going to get us to the Rapture of the Nerds anytime soon. At the least we will need some serious nanotech for that.

Ethelred

Sorry for the new signature. But It Needed Killun.

From QubitTamer's fake profile

Quantum Physicist, torturer of AGW religious zealots like Ethelred because i laugh at his hysterics.


Qubitwit gets the rest of August in my signature for aiming his idiocy at me. Again.
vika_Tae
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 29, 2009
Sorry about the delay in replying, had a drunken birthday in between :)

Ethelred, yes, I was using a word processor. I always write my thoughts out before applying them to the web. That may be it, thank you. I will try copying to a standard text editor before posting here, in future.

You also have half my answer sort of right. Yes, death is permanent, and we lose so many good minds to death, its just insane.

However, flesh is weak, flesh is easily corruptible. Many, many, MANY individuals stuck with severely disabled flesh bodies, have their potential for productive lives, curtailed because the body holds the mind short of potential. We have one Steven Hawking, who rose to brilliance because he had the money to overcome the flesh's problems enough to rise to fame. For every one that rises, 20 more are unable to rise, because for their circumstance, to bypass the flesh, is financially unfeasable.

I would dearly love to get us to a point where we can bypass it sufficiently, as a matter of routine, that their voices can be heard. That brings us back full circle to matrix-like technologies, of course. Freeing the mind through integration with AI, or at least BMI.

There are others who are already half artificial, whom I know would love to go further. Aimee Mullins springs to mind. She is forever looking for ways to improve the physical functioning of her already artificial legs. I have a friend with severe elephantitis in both legs. I would love to be able to cut them off, and implant neural controlled prosthetics in their place, give her and her husband quality of life back.

There are a billion other examples, just the same way. Flesh causes so much suffering. Its not intrinsic to flesh that it should, of course, but the stuff is so complex, we are nowhere even close to being able to replicate, or cure every dis-figuration of it that crops up.

With machined parts, prosthetics, and sensors we can simplify the equations considerably without losing any functionality for the individual. We can however, free their minds from a prison of flesh that those with severe disabilities / disfigurements find themselves in. This to me is a worthy cause, and one I pursue with vigor, regardless of how much it might be against 'Gaia'.


The other half of the equation is of course intelligence. It is arrogant in the extreme to believe that humans are the pinnacle of evolution, that these minds are as smart as it can get. I am also fully in support of using the same type of technologies and BMI to radically upgrade the capabilities of the human mind, allowing for greater intelligence, processing power and memory storage. Likewise interfacing directly with machinery at a level of pure thought.

I personally, would welcome such upgrades into my own mind, as I could use them to enhance my own intellect, and find additional solutions, to the pain of so many others.

Would I go the whole hog and upload my mind? That, I don't know. I do not believe that there is any fundamental difference between a biological mind and an artificial one, based on it. Whether we have souls is immaterial, to me at least. Its what we do whilst here that matters. If uploading allowed me to assist others, or to combat aging of my own body by the time it came around, I probably would, providing I lost none of the functioning of my own mind in the process.

Who knows, if I did, I might live long enough to see our mastery of flesh approach the level of our mastery of the electromechanical.

defunctdiety, you once said "we CAN do these things, but SHOULD we?" (paraphrasing)

I believe we should, yes. To see what new possibilities it gives us. The Christians often preach that we were made in the image of God. If that is true, then as we advance, in the same way as children are made in the image of their parents and one day become parents themselves, so we should too rise up to the level of godhood.

If the Christians and Muslims, and Buddhists, and others are wrong, and there is no god, then we owe it to ourselves, to elevate our species from the level of intelligent animals crawling on the surface of a world, to smething greater than animals, a force capable of removing all the evil from our own that we can, and being the best that we can possibly be.

Whichever side you fall on, pushing back the boundaries because we CAN is the only way to truly learn whether we SHOULD, or not.
Ethelred
3 / 5 (4) Aug 29, 2009
We have one Steven Hawking, who rose to brilliance because he had the money to overcome the flesh's problems enough to rise to fame.


This had much more to do with the Brits having socialized medicine.

Freeing the mind through integration with AI, or at least BMI.


This strikes me as dangerous. True AI that is. Perhaps by the time we can manage it we can figure out how to have some control without being the bad guys.

I have a friend with severe elephantitis in both legs.


I thought that should be curable by now. Nasty.

Its not intrinsic to flesh that it should


That's not really true. We evolved and evolution does not produce perfect designs. Pain doesn't matter only reproductive success.

This to me is a worthy cause, and one I pursue with vigor, regardless of how much it might be against 'Gaia'.


Well since Gaia is merely a concept and not a reality I think we can discount any push back from modern myths.

. It is arrogant in the extreme to believe that humans are the pinnacle of evolution, that these minds are as smart as it can get.


I don't think its arrogant at least as you stated it, which I know is being pedantic. It may even be true. That is evolution may not be able to produce a brain much smarter. Look at the rates of reproduction by IQ. I haven't done that by the way. I just have a suspicion.

Likewise interfacing directly with machinery at a level of pure thought.


That will some SERIOUS safety control. If I typed at that level my spelling would be even worse.

Would I go the whole hog and upload my mind? That, I don't know.


I wouldn't at least to begin with. It strikes me as cutting yourself off from reality. Kind of like becoming a wirehead in Larry Niven's Known Space series.

I do not believe that there is any fundamental difference between a biological mind and an artificial one, based on it.


Perhaps not but getting the balance between global and local would be just a tad tricky.

Whether we have souls is immaterial, to me at least.


Immaterial seems the operative word there. As an agnostic I don't think the concept has any relevance at all except that it would keep a lot of believers from doing it.

I might live long enough to see our mastery of flesh approach the level of our mastery of the electromechanical.


I am reasonably certain the both would be required before uploading would be possible. Just copying the brain is almost certain to require wiring of the entire brain. Then there is the possibility that our brains have a quantum component and that would make things even more difficult. Thought I think that possibility could be worked around even if true.

Still you would have a dead body at the end.

If that is true, then as we advance, in the same way as children are made in the image of their parents and one day become parents themselves, so we should too rise up to the level of godhood.


Well it would give the Mormons a thrill anyway.

Have you read Acclerando by Charles Stross? He goes into this quite a bit. But he doesn't think it will become reality anytime soon if ever.

Charlies website
http://www.accelerando.org/

It is NOT an artificial intelligence site but it does come up.

Acclerando is available for download here as a free download:
http://www.antipo...lerando/

Then there is Ray Kurzweil's book about the alleged Singularity. Charlie's was fiction and is labeled as such. Ray's is well kinda like you should use a snorkel as it tends to get a bit deep in the fertilizer in the parts I read.


Ethelred

Sorry for the new signature. But It Needed Killun.

From QubitTamer's fake profile

Quantum Physicist, torturer of AGW religious zealots like Ethelred because i laugh at his hysterics.


Qubitwit gets the rest of August in my signature for aiming his idiocy at me. Again.
vika_Tae
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 29, 2009
How the hades are you doing the indenting, please, firstly. That would make replying so much simpler. :)

Ok, reply time.

Actually, its not all to do with the NHS that Steven rose out of much of the disability quagmire. The NHS will only do so much. You still have to pay yourself, for any procedure which they deem too expensive, or too experimental.

I had the mixed pleasure to meet, a couple of years ago, a man who is confined to an electric wheelchair and sounds like he is drunk all the time. He%u2019s not, it's a mixture of muscle control issues. However, to circumnavigate the problem, would consume too much of the local NHS trust's budget, so he has to seek the private surgery route. In order to pay for the private surgery route, he requires a job. He cannot get a job, because of the disabilities.

This guy was no slouch. Once you got past the physical disabilities, there was a formidable intellect there, but because of them, and because of the expense of treating them, his wife was supporting them both. This put something of a strain on their relationship, and took a powerful mind, out of service. To my knowledge, he is still in the same boat now.

Next, your comments that true AI is dangerous. That may be true, but at this point in time, artificial general intelligence (AGI) is so far from producing true AI that it is of negligible concern. In another 10, or 20 years it will likely be very different, but that is mid-term future.

Elephantitis is not yet curable, sadly. She is an American, so its not a 'socialised medicine problem' before someone jumps on that bandwagon. I doubt you would, Ethelred, but, I try to cover both sides of the fence, as I%u2019m sure someone will if I don't.

I tend to agree that we evolved. Again, not everyone agrees that we did. For the sake of civil discussion, I felt it was best to word things leaving that open. However, yes, our minds are limited currently by energy conservation. The cooling system could deal with more frequent neural firing, but our brains already use 20% of the body's energy intake, so best not to increase that, whilst our energy source is so inefficient.

Pain may not matter to evolution, but we are smart enough now to take control of our own evolution, at least to some extent. To us, to many of us, pain matters a great deal, and the elimination of pain and suffering, seems like a great assisted evolution step.

"Well since Gaia is merely a concept and not a reality I think we can discount any push back from modern myths."

True, but do not discount a push back from those who believe strongly in Gaia, or 'natural order'.

"Look at the rates of reproduction by IQ. I haven't done that by the way. I just have a suspicion."

Same, again, I would like to avoid 'Idiocracy' becoming a true story, if at all possible. I doubt it will, if we leave things in the hands of natural selection, for the self same reasons the first five minutes of that film summed up.

As to interfacing with machinery at the level of pure thought, well we are doing that now, at least beginning to. BrainGate springs readily to mind, as does the new ECoG system. Both are insanely primitive and crude. However, they serve as both proof of concept, and liberation for those trapped in the most dysfunctional bodies of flesh. We have event related potential (ERP) brainwave triggered thought controlled keyboards at the moment. They are a lot slower than normal typing, but about once every 300ms of concentration, they type a letter out. The ERP versions won't get much quicker than that, but we won't always use that response, and eventually I can see them being tied directly into neural firing. So yes, you will probably put on a certain 'tone' in your thoughts, and what you think with that, will type out, as you think it, within both our lifetimes.

Yes brain uploading could be construed as cutting yourself off from reality, I suppose. But then, I%u2019m a bit unusual. If I was given the opportunity to live as a brain in a jar, so to speak, my mind wired into a cyborg body, or an augmented virtuality, I would seriously weigh the options up, and might well take up the offer. It offers advantages, at least to my work, that flesh does not.

Likewise, uploading itself, a human mind running on the so much faster infrastructure of an artificial brain, without the same energy constraints, has significant appeal. If it is able to keep my sense of me, as me, and offer concrete advantages that overwhelm the disadvantages.

As to the balance between global and local, its not as bad as you think. Data travels along the swiftest myelinated nerves of the peripheral nervous system at anything between 2 and 200 miles per hour. Data travels across man-made wiring and fibre at 670,616,629 miles per hour (thank you, Excel). Due to the phenomenon known as extent of presence, if you run water over your hand, it does not feel like you ran water over your brain, but that is where the sensation is felt, 0.000089 of a second later. If the hand was not connected by myelinated nerve, but by fibre optic, that same hand could be 26.8 kilometres away, and you would not be able to detect a difference.

So, whilst electronically, you would still be constrained somewhat by distance from your 'core', it is not as constrained as you might have thought. Certainly enough distance to control a simulacra in several major hospitals say, as if it was your own natural body. Speculating, we might even be able to get round the presence problem with an electronic brain, by increasing the delay that felt natural, or by translating the software matrix to where it was needed, assuming we can get around the pressing need for specialist hardware. Still, that is getting highly speculative.

I also disagree that we would need wires in all of the brain, since most of the brain is not the person. Over 50% of it is dedicated to controlling the body, and does not particularly differ from individual to individual, so there would be no point in transferring that over. It is more a case of working out which processing regions house the sense of self, in all its disparate parts, and how they interconnect. Transferring those would still be a challenge of course, the key part being to transfer the consciousness and NOT just create a 'copy'. Still, we have many decades to figure that part out.

Mastery of flesh would not be required not to the level you are thinking of, barely more than what we have now, really, to transfer the mind across, as most of the flesh of the body is inconsequential to such an activity. Only the neural structure of the brain really matters. As to the body dying again that is not certain, though certainly preferable, if it is a full mind transfer, and not just a copy. I can think of few better ways to finalise the sense of transference, than to shut down systematically, the organic brain, as the two way data transfer establishes itself, shifting the focus of consciousness, from one set of circuitry to the other.

You wouldn't want two of you around, after all?

I've not read Acclerando, but will add it to my reading list. Thank you. I have read two of Ray Kurzweil's books. "Age of Spiritualist machines" is the other one. I don't agree with everything he says, but he does have perseverance, I will give him that. At the end of the day, we all need a lot of that.

(EDIT: Apparently copying to a plain text editor after typing in a word processor does not save the apostrophes, or quotes.)
Ethelred
3 / 5 (4) Aug 30, 2009
How the hades are you doing the indenting, please, firstly


If you look at the bottom of each post you will see two links

- flag - quote - and a third for three minutes below your own posts - edit.

If you click on quote the reply box will have a complete copy of the post PLUS

It will be bounded with q /q both enclosed in [].

Lots of forums use pseudo HTML in that form, things like [i][/i] for italics. Here all you can use is the q for quote. They must be lower case and just the letter with the [].

So what I do is highlight what I want Control C then type [ q] without the space Contol V to paste into notpad then [ /q] again without the space.

Hope that space worked. Editing to repair posts makes a real mess. It totally destroys links for instance.

You still have to pay yourself, for any procedure which they deem too expensive, or too experimental.


I have been assuming the Cambridge has spent a lot as well.

Once you got past the physical disabilities, there was a formidable intellect there, but because of them, and because of the expense of treating them, his wife was supporting them both.


I am not aware of anyplace that has a real solution for this yet. The expenses are massive. Christopher Reeve had a lot of his own money for instance. Few have that financial luxury.

That may be true, but at this point in time, artificial general intelligence (AGI) is so far from producing true AI that it is of negligible concern.


My thinking as well but I am hardly an expert. Just read a lot of Science Fiction on this. Things have been advancing just a tad slower than the writers were expecting early on.

She is an American, so its not a 'socialised medicine problem'


Its more of a Zebra problem then. In the US that is exceedingly rare. Never heard of anyone with it. So money for research would be short.

For the sake of civil discussion, I felt it was best to word things leaving that open.


I rarely worry about being civil on that subject. I have discussed it a lot. The hard part is finding someone that can do so on the other side. They are VERY rare. Its an acquired taste. You would be better off not acquiring it I suppose.

However, yes, our minds are limited currently by energy conservation.


Interesting idea. I know that we have a number of cooling adaptations but don't think its that limiting. Perhaps. Dumping heat is definitely a challenge in many parts of the world. Have to think a bit more on this.

Pain may not matter to evolution, but we are smart enough now to take control of our own evolution, at least to some extent.


Finally to some extent. More Real Soon Now.

To us, to many of us, pain matters a great deal, and the elimination of pain and suffering, seems like a great assisted evolution step.


To some extent I can mitigate pain by treating it as a signal. There are limits to how far I can go with that.

I think controlling pain at the injury site and not the brain is the best way to go because of the addictive nature of drugs that deal with pain in the brain. Great care would be needed to train people to behave themselves if they could block pain. Taking the edge off would be far safer than fully removing it.

Chronic pain is different though.

I hadn't noticed that there was a video. I have most of the scripting blocked.

Interesting the way he is extracting the forground. Looks like some sort of motion detection to find edges and then igores things that don't move. The computer voice is good enough. Interesting how much more mature the English voice sounds than the Japanese.

That was interesting. Some of the programming seems a bit uhmm odd.

So yes, you will probably put on a certain 'tone' in your thoughts, and what you think with that, will type out, as you think it, within both our lifetimes.


Yeah I can see that happening. Some sort of interface will be needed. That is, a way to connect more directly but without surgery. I am not sure how much it would be needed for the able bodied. Which means funding could be a bit limited for some time.

If it is able to keep my sense of me, as me, and offer concrete advantages that overwhelm the disadvantages.


If and only if. Otherwise its the same as death. Many would consider it death either way.

Something I would have to file as for future consideration.

As to the balance between global and local, its not as bad as you think. Data travels along the swiftest myelinated nerves of the peripheral nervous system at anything between 2 and 200 miles per hour.


This is not what I was thinking of. For global I was thinking of chemicals that enhance activity in some areas and suppress in others. Some of the chemicals arise outside the brain, travel through the bloodstream and then have effects there. Including chemicals that do double duty. One thing in one part of the body and another in the brain.

For instance NO is used as a neural transmitter, it effects muscles and I am pretty sure that I read that white blood cells use it as a toxin. Our brains are nowhere near as tidy as a PC. The individual cells should be possible fairly soon now but the interactions that are NOT nerve based are going to be subtle and there for important for a person to be a person as opposed to a simulated person.

So, whilst electronically, you would still be constrained somewhat by distance from your 'core', it is not as constrained as you might have thought.


I see telepresence as coming long before AI emulation of human brains. That would be more a matter of activating nerve pathways rather than then emulating them.

Over 50% of it is dedicated to controlling the body, and does not particularly differ from individual to individual,


A point that might work out. Possible anyway. I would consider that a first approximation at best unless we find that there is very little difference between people in this.

. Transferring those would still be a challenge of course, the key part being to transfer the consciousness and NOT just create a 'copy'.


I think we will have to settle for a copy. Transference is liable to be more of a euphemism for replacing the original with a copy.

I can live with that. At least if the alternative is to not live at all.

You wouldn't want two of you around, after all?


Maybe. I like myself. I think I can even trust myself. An interesting book covering this is David Brin's Kiln People. I wish David would write another book as that was not his best. Much more interesting in many ways than the Postman was. That book was better than the movie.

Apparently copying to a plain text editor after typing in a word processor does not save the apostrophes, or quotes.


Its no cure all. I do all my typing here in notepad and then check the spelling and grammar in the comment box. I need to try another text editor.

Ethelred

Sorry for the new signature. But It Needed Killun.

From QubitTamer's fake profile

Quantum Physicist, torturer of AGW religious zealots like Ethelred because i laugh at his hysterics.


Qubitwit gets the rest of August in my signature for aiming his idiocy at me. Again.
dachpyarvile
1 / 5 (1) Aug 30, 2009
"All of this has happened before...and it will happen again."

Sorry. Couldn't resist. But, you have to admit that it does sound a lot like the precursor to skin-jobs and downloading in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica series. :)

I thought it funny that the writers of the series actually included footage of a robot like the above, if not the exact one, in the final episode.