New geoglyphs found in Nazca desert after sandstorm

Aug 07, 2014 by Bob Yirka report
Credit: Elcomercio

(Phys.org) —While flying over the famous Nazca desert recently, pilot Eduardo Herrán Gómez de la Torre spotted some geoglyphs that had not been seen before. He believes the geoglyphs or Nazca Lines, as others call them, were exposed after recent sand-storms carried away soil that was covering them.

The Nazca Lines have become world famous, showing up in paintings, movies, books and news articles. They exist on the floor of the Nazca desert in a southwestern part of Peru, near the ocean. Scientists believe the figures (approximately 700 in all) were created by the ancient Nazca people over a time period of a thousand years—500BC to 500AD. The geoglyphs vary in size and have been categorized into two distinct categories: natural objects and geometric figures. The natural objects include animals such as birds, camelids, or snakes. It is believed the lines were created by removing iron-oxide coated pellets to a depth of four to six inches—that left the lighter sand below in stark contrast to the surrounding area. The images vary dramatically in size, with the largest approximately 935 feet long. It is a myth that the figures on the desert floor can only be seen by aircraft (they were first "discovered" by a pilot flying over the desert in 1939). In fact, they can be seen quite easily when standing on nearby mountains or hills.

The newly revealed figures discovered by de la Torre are of a snake (approximately 196 feet in length), a bird, a camelid (perhaps a llama) and some zig-zag lines. They are actually on some hills in the El Ingenio Valley and Pampas de Jumana near the floor. Archeologists have been alerted to authenticate the find.

The reason for the creation of the geoglyphs is still uncertain, though a host of possible explanations have been offered, many centered around religion and or water. Interestingly, all of the figures are believed to have been created using a single line that never crosses itself. Similar to how a picture might be drawn with a pencil, never lifting it from the paper. It has also been noted that many of the images depicted by geoglyphs also appear on pottery made by people over the same time period, and, archeologists have found evidence of wooden stakes used to help create the images, suggesting they were made using very simple techniques.

Explore further: Field study suggests geoglyphs in ancient Peru were made to lead travelers to trade fairs

More information: via Elcomercio

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baudrunner
1.4 / 5 (9) Aug 07, 2014
Something's not right. They are archeaologists and scientific minds who puzzle over these glyphs and invariaby conclude that they had some kind of religious significance. That's the same mindset that is placing responsibility for all those inexplicable events in our pre-history plumb on the shoulders of God. We have no explanation for the existence of the Universe so it must be that a God created it. We have no explanation for the existence of life so it must be that a God created it. We naturally assume that these glyphs for which we have no explanation must exist because of some kind of religious observance.

Now, these same intelligent minds think that it is implausible that the Nazca etchings are merely intended to be signposts for those looking for a people who have settled in the area and who need directions from the air to find them.

What we have here is that wholly untenable ideas are the accepted conclusions, while practical ones are rejected. Where is the science?
Shootist
1.7 / 5 (6) Aug 07, 2014
myths are universal. your pondering is complete.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (8) Aug 07, 2014
these same intelligent minds think that it is implausible that the Nazca etchings are merely intended to be signposts for those looking for a people who have settled in the area and who need directions from the air to find them
@baudrunner
OR from nearby mountains and hills
from the article
(they were first "discovered" by a pilot flying over the desert in 1939). In fact, they can be seen quite easily when standing on nearby mountains or hills.
just because they cannot be discerned for what they are by standing among them at the actual site does not mean that there is proof of an airborne society using them as signposts.
Where is the science?
by studying the culture(s) that left behind other clues around the area and studying the local cultures, they can conclude much, especially if certain signs are repeated and used for certain purposes (which may have been handed down over the generations)

animah
5 / 5 (8) Aug 07, 2014
baudrunner, that's because:

- Pretty much all pre-bronze civilisations are bipolar, with basically 90% of artefacts amenable to classification as either 1. Utilitarian/social or 2. Ceremonial/religious. Yes, it's a research template, but it's pretty solid.

- While the Nazca culture had superlative engineers (see their puquios, underground aqueducts that still work! http://en.wikiped...Puquios) there is no evidence of ancient flight (or provide citations?)

- Nazca was known to be an intensely religious culture (see Cahuachi: http://en.wikiped...ahuachi)
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (6) Aug 08, 2014
Forget about the how, we need to figure out the why, something that is habitually overlooked in archaeology. What message were the creators trying to leave?
The geoglyphs vary in size and have been categorized into two distinct categories: natural objects and geometric figures

Why does it seem that ancient cultures are so infatuated with geometry? Could there be something 'sacred' in the geometry of the Universe? We see it in most advanced cultures (see the Flower of Life), so obviously we're missing something.
Sinister1812
not rated yet Aug 08, 2014
Crazy! Maybe something will be revealed to help solve the mystery.
baudrunner
1.4 / 5 (9) Aug 08, 2014
Crazy! Maybe something will be revealed to help solve the mystery.
It's been revealed, just not accepted because of the scare factor.

Here's what happened...

Long, long ago, extra-terrestrials discovered a thriving class M planet populated with a primitive stone age people. The natives perceive the mysterious and magically gifted (read: technologically enabled) visitors as gods, which they are not. These "gods" proceed to exploit, subjugate, and generally interfere in the development of the native culture, ultimately enslaving it to serve their nefarious ends, which is to ravish the Earth of its gold and most precious resources.

It's an old and tired scenario alright, the stuff of science fiction, but that is the true history of this world, like it or not.

Vietvet
5 / 5 (9) Aug 08, 2014
@baudrunner
You are batshit crazy.
Egleton
5 / 5 (2) Aug 08, 2014
Materialism has been with us for two hundred years. It is the holy of holy of science.It is a reaction to the religious dogma and persecution that predated science.
However, science can leave the fear of persecution behind.
Those who defend the alter of modern science can stand down so that we can progress with true scepticism.
A True Skeptic beleves the evidence. No matter where it takes him.
Whydening Gyre
4.7 / 5 (3) Aug 08, 2014
Crazy! Maybe something will be revealed to help solve the mystery.


I suspect it has something to do with understanding the true nature of the Universe. Their glyphs represent a perception of different patterns, aspects and scales of how they calculated the Universe operates. Much like the layout of the Egyptian pyramids to Orion - it's a visual equivalent of a mathematical formula (that they didn't have the "math" to represent).
They had a lot of time on their hands to think about this stuff, I'm sure...
And they were NOT stupid, by any means...
AkiBola
5 / 5 (2) Aug 11, 2014
... to serve their nefarious ends, which is to ravish the Earth of its gold and most precious resources.


Gold is a vanity metal of importance to silly humans with no more or less value than any other metal. Extra terrestrial lifeforms would have no special use for gold, or the earth.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Aug 11, 2014
Gold is a vanity metal of importance to silly humans with no more or less value than any other metal. Extra terrestrial lifeforms would have no special use for gold, or the earth.

Actually, Aki, gold has numerous atomic properties that make it valuable. Many are newly discovered and I'm certain there are more in the offing...

Besides, I think he was just joking around with the whole Annunaki thing...
baudrunner
1 / 5 (5) Aug 11, 2014
@baudrunner
You are batshit crazy.
vietvet, I guess if I said that, okay, there was this guy like us (he is reported to have made us in his image) who existed before the whole Universe existed, and who made this whole Universe, then made us and put us only here, and that explains that, and if I believe in that story I am not batshit crazy? I am assuming (at the risk of making an ASS out of U and of ME) that this is your position because you are not offering an alternative explanation for creation and you are condascending and disparaging the principle of scientific reason, which is what I am offering.

There was a guy named Titus Lucretius Carus who lived about 50 BCE who was smarter than you are because he also assumed something - that the "gods" would be nuts to have created all those suns up there if they hadn't intended to create and encourage life to multiply among them too. Here was a guy who believed in extraterrestrials who lived over 2,000 years before you did.

baudrunner
1 / 5 (5) Aug 11, 2014
Gold is a vanity metal of importance to silly humans with no more or less value than any other metal. Extra terrestrial lifeforms would have no special use for gold, or the earth.
AkiBola, you have revealed yourself as one who yet holds in wonder and awe - dare I say religious reverence - those "gods" of our prehistory, who did indeed come after our gold, because they are more ruthless and greedy than even we Earthling humans, who, I might remind you, carry a good portion of their nature in our genes. Let's be practical. Gold is, and always has been, the standard backbone of economic activity throughout the entire span of the evolution of all intelligent life in this Universe.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 11, 2014
... to serve their nefarious ends, which is to ravish the Earth of its gold and most precious resources.


Gold is a vanity metal of importance to silly humans with no more or less value than any other metal. Extra terrestrial lifeforms would have no special use for gold, or the earth.
@akibola
gold is an excellent conductor

it is a dense, soft, malleable and ductile metal and small amounts can be hammered thin enough to see through but block certain wavelengths of light/radiation (which is why it is used on the astronauts helmets visor)

gold has properties which remain without tarnishing when exposed to air or water

It is one of the least reactive chemical elements, and is solid under standard conditions

it resists attacks by individual acids, but it can be dissolved by aqua regia (nitro-hydrochloric acid)

https://en.wikipe...iki/Gold
Vietvet
5 / 5 (7) Aug 11, 2014
@baudrunner

I stand by my statement. Your belief that ETs have visited and influenced life on earth makes you batshit crazy.
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (5) Aug 12, 2014
"vietvet, I guess if I said that, okay, there was this guy like us (he is reported to have made us in his image) who existed before the whole Universe existed, and who made this whole Universe, then made us and put us only here, and that explains that, and if I believe in that story I am not batshit crazy? "
"I am assuming (at the risk of making an ASS out of U and of ME) that this is your position because you are not offering an alternative explanation for creation"
one of you certainly did make an ass out of themselves. vietvet is not a creationist.
animah
5 / 5 (5) Aug 12, 2014
Whoa rationalists one moment please. There would be no need to come to Earth for gold if you had the energy to travel the universe. The Earth is not that special. There's trillions of times more in asteroids'n stuff...

http://news.harva...r-space/

@baudrunner, I would be very curious to know where you get such authoritative information :-). Links please?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 12, 2014
These "gods" proceed to exploit, subjugate, and generally interfere in the development of the native culture, ultimately enslaving it to serve their nefarious ends, which is to ravish the Earth of its gold and most precious resources
Please. Any civilization capable of interstellar travel 1) would be sending machines instead of traveling themselves and 2) these machines could build machines capable of performing tasks like mining and refining far better than any human.

We only scratch the surface of this planet. Robots could peel the crust like an orange. But as animah points out, why bother?

Instead of reviving some tired old scifi scenario why not just read some Niven or Kim Stanley Robinson instead?
baudrunner
2 / 5 (4) Aug 12, 2014
@TheGhostofOtto1923 I don't know what your take is on the subject of our world having been visited and influenced by an intelligent non-native species. If that is sci-fi than so are the NASA and ESA space programs.

Why robots? Why not big machines? Take a close look at Uranus' moon Miranda. It's obviously been strip-mined for water.

I don't see what's so fantastic or impossible about visitors coming to Earth from Gilese 581 or any other star with a habitable orb circling it. Why do people so aggrandize themselves to selfishly and narrow-mindedly think that we are the only humans in the Universe, and if we aren't, that nobody who isn't us could possibly figure out a way to visit all those other worlds? What's with that?
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (5) Aug 12, 2014
Why robots? Why not big machines? Take a close look at Uranus' moon Miranda. It's obviously been strip-mined for water.


Why would they need to come to the inner solar system to get water when they could take all they need from the Oort cloud. Why would their system not have their own Oort cloud? Are you suggesting they may have consumed all their water somehow including their Oort cloud then completely bypass our Oort cloud to get water from Miranda? To mine it no less when they could simply haul it away in frozen chunks a lot closer to home?

Not that I don't think there aren't other civilizations out there. But it would seem to me that any race that had mastered interstellar travel could easily find or synthesize water much closer to home. If they could have somehow consumed a whole star systems water what good would it do to strip mine a relatively miniscule amount from such great distances?

H & O are extremely abundant.

Consider the economics of the situation.
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 13, 2014
IMHO, if we have been visited in the past then I would think they would have come from Mars. Recent findings suggest conditions for life were likely possible on the red planet.
http://www.space....rth.html
We could also assume that the planet would cool faster after formation, giving Mars a headstart in terms of harboring life. It's very possible that life formed simultaneously on both planets, and due to cosmic impacts spewing material into space the two planet's genomes might have mixed.

The Thunderbolts Project is an interesting source of potential information.
https://www.youtu...sProject

Perhaps the "Martians" were just exploring and they found that there was a similar evolutionary pattern on Earth. The question for me always comes back to where did all the white people come from?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Aug 13, 2014
Why would they need to come to the inner solar system to get water when they could take all they need from the Oort cloud. Why would their system not have their own Oort cloud?
Br is having fun pumping bs. If machine life came here it would still not need to mine and refine the quantities of material needed to maintain a presence, that could be observed from a distance.

Machine life would want to gather as much knowledge about its galactic environment as possible, and might have to seed remotes in other star systems to do this. And if ftl travel is easier than we think it is
http://www.cnn.co...aceship/

-then these remotes might be common, especially in systems where species like ours are soon to make the transformation to machine intelligence. But they would be impossible for us to find.

Machines would have absolutely nothing to say to us. They would be patiently awaiting the emergence of our machine successors.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 14, 2014
I still believe in Planet X - "Nibiru". Those extraterrestrials wold not have to travel incomprehensible distances from other stars because they are a part of our own solar system.

There are near perfectly symmetrical solar systems in the Milky Way, in which all the planets orbit in concentric circles around its parent star. Ours is not like that. The small planetoid Pluto has a highly irregular orbit which occasionally brings it closer to Earth than Neptune. Furthermore, the perturbations of the orbits of Uranus and Neptune cannot be explained solely by the gravitational effect of Pluto, therefore there is another planet-sized body in the solar system which thus far has eluded discovery. The astronomical world is divided over that, lending some credence to it due to a lack of consistency and general disagreement over the idea by those who still think it impossible that life exists elsewhere than on Earth, lest their faith be shattered.
saposjoint
5 / 5 (4) Aug 14, 2014
Yessir, crazy and stupid on top of that.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (4) Aug 14, 2014
@baudrunner

You don't understand that this is a science site, not a science FANTASY site.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 14, 2014
I still believe in Planet X - "Nibiru". Those extraterrestrials wold not have to travel incomprehensible distances from other stars because they are a part of our own solar system... lest their faith be shattered.
Hard to imagine life, let alone a technological civilization, arising on a world where everything including the atmosphere is frozen. But youre just playing games arent you? What are you bored? Senile?

"Sitchin's explanation that heat from radioactive decay and a thick atmosphere keep Nibiru warm is absurd and does not address the problem of darkness in deep space. Also unexplained is how the Nephilim, who evolved long after Nibiru arrived, knew what happened when Nibiru first entered the solar system."'
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 14, 2014
vietvet, I understand that this is a forum for discussing article content. What we are discussing are the mysterious Nazca glyphs, and I am offering practical ideas. I am not calling anyone batshit crazy, or crazy and stupid, because this is not the place for that. That is for mindless types without thinking skills. I'd like to remind you that a Peruvian professor of Archeology told me once that evidence indicates that the Nazca lines were created by some kind of heavy machinery, and not by hand, and that it is impossible to determine exactly how old they are.

Sitchin merely offered plausible explanations for why an ostensibly cold planet which is so far from the sun most of the time can sustain life. Obviously a planet can gain considerable warmth from its interior, and if Planet X is 4 times the size of Earth, the potential for that is so much greater. We should refrain from opinionating and passing judgements from the relative context of our own existence.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 14, 2014
There is much confusion concerning the possibility that we have been the destination for extraterrestrial life. It arises from the fact that primates are inherently copycats. Head binding for example. Those dolicocephaloid skulls of Peru have a cranial capacity twice that of the skull of a modern human. And humans imitated their appearance with the practice of head binding from birth, to stretch the skull. This practice does nothing to increase cranial capacity. incidentally, this was a common practice among later Incas as well as some Africans, who still bind their baby's heads today. So, @vietvet, where did those people, who eventually comprised three of the four known Inca tribes, come from?
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 14, 2014
And where did the Starchild come from? http://www.starch...ct.com/#

Preliminary DNA testing indicates that there are more differences between this individual's DNA and ours than there are between a Chimpanzee's DNA and ours. This is most certainly the skull of an alien being not from Earth. And yet there are still naysayers who insist that this was the skull of a severely afflicted individual and that ET is sci-fi. That's because they DO NOT READ, they just scan some words and come up with their brilliant judgmentally opinionated conclusions.

I read.

Incidentally, the authors are being tactful, and are reporting that some experts believe that this could be a whole new species, avoiding any discussion of extraterrestrials.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
@baudrunner

The Starchild debunked

http://en.wikiped...ld_skull
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
@baudrunner

You say you read, so I have one more link for you to read.

http://www.badarc..._id=1417
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 15, 2014
Sitchin merely offered plausible explanations
No he offered explanations which were ridiculous.
Obviously a planet can gain considerable warmth from its interior
Obvious to who? You?
We should refrain from opinionating and passing judgements from the relative context of our own existence
I always like to look for expert opinions. Read it again.

"Sitchin's explanation that heat from radioactive decay and a thick atmosphere keep Nibiru warm is absurd and does not address the problem of darkness"

-And if aliens exist they would have evolved in the same context as us. Namely the physical laws which govern the universe.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 15, 2014
a Peruvian professor of Archeology told me once that evidence indicates that the Nazca lines were created by some kind of heavy machinery
While I suspect that this is bullshit I also suspect that some archeologists are somewhat daft and also ignorant of construction methods. Perhaps your prof has the same explanations for the pyramids and the Indian mounds in the US? I bet he does.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (2) Aug 15, 2014

@baudrunner
http://ancientali...d-skull/
@vietvet, you're exactly the kind of person I was writing about. You quote from Wikipedia [big buzzer punch] after noting that the author's agenda is to debunk E.T. myths, which is in agreement with your modus operandi, which is to slant everything into an impractical, secular, and unscientific interpretation.

Otto, I don't want to argue with you but irt's time you woke up and smelled the roses. I wasn't making anything up. No BS. I met the Peruvian professor, a female, in Toronto several years ago.

From http://traveltips...119.html :
Some pyramids feature an inner layer of mica imported from Brazil 2,000 miles away without the benefit of wheeled transportation. It's believed the mica acted as insulation.
You see what I'm taking about? A statement of fact followed by an insanely ridiculous explanation which vietvet and others are going to take as fact because they saw it in print.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (2) Aug 15, 2014
Not to mention the fact that no explanation was offered for how the Mayans knew about mica from Brazil, not their territory, or how they transported the mica for 2,000 miles through dense rainforest jungles.

Go ahead and call me crazy. I long ago learned to take the narrowmindedness of others with a grain of salt. THEY FLEW THE MICA FROM THERE! ref: https://www.googl...;bih=640
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014

@baudrunner
http://ancientali...d-skull/ :
Some pyramids feature an inner layer of mica imported from Brazil 2,000 miles away without the benefit of wheeled transportation. It's believed the mica acted as insulation.
You see what I'm taking about? A statement of fact followed by an insanely ridiculous explanation which vietvet and others are going to take as fact because they saw it in print.


Your link says nothing about the mica being imported from Brazil.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (1) Aug 15, 2014
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
@baudrunner

I get it. You are going to believe what you do despite any supporting evidence. Your beliefs are based on flights of fantsy, irrational conjecture and are not the least bit scientific.

Have a good day.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Aug 15, 2014
Not to mention the fact that no explanation was offered for how the Mayans knew about mica from Brazil, not their territory, or how they transported the mica for 2,000 miles through dense rainforest jungles.
They transported many things for long distances, on the backs of 1000s and 1000s of slaves.

"The Ancient Maya civilization had an advanced trade system consisting of short, medium and long trade routes and a robust market for a range of goods and materials."

-You can't cite an example that's difficult for YOU to understand and then conclude that it is evidence which supports your theory.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
You are going to believe what you do despite any supporting evidence.
I get ALL of my information from supporting evidence - reams of it on the web FYI, if you don't like books the way I like books. I suspect that you're not much of a book reader. I'll bet you're one of those mindless idiots who think that the moon landing was staged and filmed in some out of the way warehouse.

We're going to be some other world's proto-human race's E.T. one of these days. Do you think that's "batshit crazy" too?
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
-You can't cite an example that's difficult for YOU to understand and then conclude that it is evidence which supports your theory.
Okay, I'm tired of you Otto, and that vietvet who should have stayed a hero. You two can't cite any examples, PERIOD, so shut up already.

It's obvious that you two wouldn't know a fist if it punched you in the nose. The evidence is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
@baudrunner

I read 2 to 3 books a week and have for decades, except for the last four years of my sisters life as I was her caregiver and I didn't have time for books. Quanity isn't everything though, the older I've become the more I realize I wasted time on books like CHARIOTS OF THE GODS, even if it was a laugh riot.

Your implying that I might believe the Moon landings were faked comes across as projection. You spout unscientifc nonsense as gospel truth and claim we are heritics for not buying the crap your selling.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
@baudrunner

There is abolutely zero evidence of ETs visiting earth, much less influencing life here. There are plenty of claims it has happened and far too many gullible people believing those claims but there is zero proof of those claims.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
vietvet: you don't make a whole lot of sense anyway, but "projection..??". That's a psychological phenomenon - when you tell somebody, "you know what your problem is?.." and then you proceed to to tell them, but what you're really doing is describing yourself.

For example, the sentence, "You spout unscientifc nonsense as gospel truth and claim we are heretics for not buying the crap your selling." Well, I never called anyone a heretic. But you are in effect calling me one, and the only unscientific nonsense that is being spouted is yours.

I would like to hear your ideas on the subjects I've mentioned. Those dolicocephaloid Incan skulls with twice the cranial capacity of yours; the mica layers in those pyramids (insulation indeed, those pyramids are giant capacitors - that's a scientific explanation, by the way); or those megaliths in Tiwanaku, made of precisely fitted dolomite blocks (hardest stone known) that modern engineers can't cut using conventional saw blades?
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 15, 2014
I would like to hear your ideas on the subjects I've mentioned. Those dolicocephaloid Incan skulls with twice the cranial capacity of yours; the mica layers in those pyramids (insulation indeed, those pyramids are giant capacitors - that's a scientific explanation, by the way); or those megaliths in Tiwanaku, made of precisely fitted dolomite blocks (hardest stone known) that modern engineers can't cut using conventional saw blades?

Citations?
Estevan57
5 / 5 (4) Aug 15, 2014
http://en.wikiped...Dolomite

Mohs scale hardness 3.5 to 4
Copper (Alloyed) 3.5
Brass approx. 4.0

Used by Greeks and Romans, and many others.
Dolomite is a popular choice for motorcycle speedway tracks throughout Australia and New Zealand.
Have a good day.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (4) Aug 15, 2014
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomite

Mohs scale hardness 3.5 to 4
Copper (Alloyed) 3.5
Brass approx. 4.0

Used by Greeks and Romans, and many others.
Dolomite is a popular choice for motorcycle speedway tracks throughout Australia and New Zealand.
Have a good day.


Granite
Mohs scale hardness 7
Vietvet
5 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
@baudrunner
You may read a lot but you are not doing it critically. The statement that dolomite is the "hardest stone known" is something you read that is laughably wrong. It is also relatively easy to cut, even amateurs do it.

There is absolutely no scientific underpinning to the crazy idea that the pyramids are giant capacitors. None.

What you call evidence are unproven CLAIMS.

For all I know you could be a real nice guy and we could share a few beers----as long as we kept the conversation to something important-----like football or fishing.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
and I am offering practical ideas
@baudrunner
no, you are offering personal conjecture based upon your delusional belief system which has NO empirical data to support it
without thinking skills
and posting unsubstantiated conjecture is better?
a Peruvian professor of Archeology told me once that evidence indicates that the Nazca lines were created by some kind of heavy machinery
and a Peruvian barmaid once showed us how she did it by hand. whats your point? There is NO EMPIRICAL evidence that any heavy machinery was used
We should refrain from opinionating and passing judgements from the relative context of our own existence
but it's ok to make up stories like planet x with NO evidence? WTF?
so far, you are not helping your argument... in fact, you are only supporting Vietvet's argument
You quote from Wikipedia
there is more evidence on Vietvet's Wiki link than all of your posts so far...
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
after noting that the author's agenda is to debunk E.T. myths
@baud
well, considering that you have produced NO empirical evidence so far, that is not hard, you know
No BS. I met the Peruvian professor, a female, in Toronto several years ago
and I was in Peru at the Nazca lines... either she is full of it, or YOU are
A statement of fact followed by an insanely ridiculous explanation
what's so ridiculous? There are Arkansas stone arrowheads from Hot Springs found down in Central and South America too... you saying the aliens used knapped arrowheads on their ships?
how the Mayans knew about mica from Brazil
see definition of TRADE https://duckduckg...%2FTrade

Go ahead and call me crazy
weren't you just whining about being called crazy? make up your mind!
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
I get ALL of my information from supporting evidence - reams of it on the web FYI
@baud
the internet also has 12,300,000 results for "Dead Fairies for sale" https://www.googl...dp3634us
does that mean we now have proof of fairies?
I suspect that you're not much of a book reader
there have been instances of known fallacies printed in books too... take Otto's fav subject! See ANY religious text for nice fallacious BS in print
I'll bet you're one of those mindless idiots who think that the moon landing was staged
actually, we were thinking this about you... how does Vietvet believing in empirical data suddenly become his belief in staged moon landings?
project much?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
The evidence is ALL OVER THE PLACE.
@baud
you have YET to provide ANY empirical data supporting your delusions of planet x, aliens or your heavy machinery Nazca lines
"projection..??". That's a psychological phenomenon
it is what you did with the faked moon landings BS https://duckduckg...ojection

you are in effect calling me one
he's not calling you a heretic; more like loony with unsupported conjecture and delusions... and even if HE is not, I AM
dolicocephaloid Incan skulls
you've obviously never seen what boiling water can do to a cadaver and a skeleton
pyramids are giant capacitors
personal conjecture based upon delusion
THIS should be EASY to prove... I've YET to see massive deaths on those pyramids due to arrhythmic fibrillation from shock ... or ANY other related electrical byproduct let alone PROOF that would support that claim
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
fitted dolomite blocks (hardest stone known) that modern engineers can't cut using conventional saw blades?
@baud
do you seriously not know how to Google? WTF?
https://www.googl...4Az2Z1oM

what you have given thus far is post ofter post of unsubstantiated claims that support Vietvet's assertions at the top
@baudrunner
You are batshit crazy
You've given NO empirical evidence
you've made erroneous claims that are easily looked up (like Dolomite)
you even tried projection of your inadequacies onto Vietvet and got mad at Otto for calling you out
just because it looks different, doesn't mean ALIENS: https://en.wikipe..._binding
you can BIND a head to grow elongated if you bind at birth/youth

PROVE YOUR CLAIMS
PROVIDE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
http://en.wikiped...Dolomite

Mohs scale hardness 3.5 to 4
Copper (Alloyed) 3.5
Brass approx. 4.0

Used by Greeks and Romans, and many others.
Dolomite is a popular choice for motorcycle speedway tracks throughout Australia and New Zealand.
Have a good day.
Peep.
Okay, I'm tired of you Otto, and that vietvet who should have stayed a hero. You two can't cite any examples, PERIOD, so shut up already.
Science has amassed a wealth of evidence which you have failed to examine. How come? There's no reason for others to copy/paste it here for you.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
@Captain Stumpy: Dolomite stone comes in many forms. The stone used to build the megaliths in Tiwanaka is extremely dense and hard. The age of that site is indeterminable. The post-ancient Incan tribes had no written language, unlike their more sophisticated predecessors (more food for thought). They also had no stone working tools, no wheeled means of transport, nor the draft animals required to pull them if they did. And yet those stones were quarried 10 kilometers away, the largest of them 131 metric tons!

I'm tired of people asking me to cite my sources. All my information comes from authoritative sources. It's obviously easier to criticize than it is to research.

I swear, Americans must have the lowest average IQ's on Earth. I make valid assumptions because of this -> http://www.gallup...ins.aspx

baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
Here is some more fodder for your continued assaults:

As for the mica in those pyramids, they perform the same function as they do in capacitors. You might know that there is an electrical field around you, and that the potential difference between your feet and your head can reach up to 6 volts. Archeological studies in Egypt and Central America has determined that water flow around and under the pyramids has influence on the electrical properties of those pyramids. From Wikipedia: "Muscovite, the principal mica used by the electrical industry, is used in capacitors that are ideal for high frequency and radio frequency." Your CB radio transmits 4 watts, and has enough range to be practical. In a world devoid of interfering technology, as in Marconi's time, those Pyramids would generate sufficient energy to be useful in long distance communication, ie. from Mesoamerica to Egypt. The Mayans couldn't have done that. And there is no other reason to use mica in their construction
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 16, 2014
I'm tired of people asking me to cite my sources
what sources? delusions are NOT sources!
All my information comes from authoritative sources
again, delusions are NOT authoritative
It's obviously easier to criticize than it is to research
when you can find me some EMPIRICAL DATA supporting your position, then we can talk... until then, it is NOT MY FAILING that your "authoritative" sources are delusional and non-existent.
Nor is some CULT leader, religion or conjecture "authoritative"

YOUR CLAIMS, therefore the burden of PROOF is upon YOU
NOT US
and so far, you are SEVERELY LACKING

and I am NOT A CREATIONIST, so your poll is irrelevant
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
Science has amassed a wealth of evidence which you have failed to examine. How come? There's no reason for others to copy/paste it here for you.
I haven't failed to examine it, I just don't buy it into a lot of it because scientists are just people with jobs, and I have to continually take into account those 46% who believe that a supreme being made us out of clay less than 10,000 years ago, which to my mind means that 46% are seriously mentally disturbed. I mean, witness the conflict in this discussion. And I agree, I can do my own research. But tell me then, what's their point, other than to be antagonistic?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
As for the mica in those pyramids, they perform the same function as they do in capacitors
personal conjecture not supported by evidence
You might know that there is an electrical field around you...6 volts
irrelevant misdirection- no causation or link between subjects
Archeological studies in Egypt and Central America has determined that water flow around and under the pyramids has influence on the electrical properties of those pyramids
and barmaids have proven that beer is wet when poured - where is the study? the empirical evidence? if SCIENTISTS claim it, there MUST be a study
is used in capacitors
From Monty Python and the Holy Grail "I'm not dead yet"
Your CB radio transmits 4 watts
actually mine transmits 100watts as it is a shortwave rigged to use the CB band
those Pyramids would generate sufficient energy to be useful in long distance communication
conjecture based upon delusions and conspiracy with aliens
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 16, 2014
those Pyramids would generate sufficient energy to be useful in long distance communication, ie. from Mesoamerica to Egypt
unless you have an inversion layer or a means to tightly beam the 4watts of transmission, you aren't going to be transmitting more than a couple miles, no matter HOW quiet the surrounding technology... and if your pyramids are electric,then the interference between ungrounded power would cause it to break up... sorry sparky
The Mayans couldn't have done that
neither could alien delusions, because delusions have no physical manifestation in reality
And there is no other reason to use mica in their construction
unless they use it like Otto and VIetvet already pointed out... try re-reading those links, mensa boy
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 16, 2014
I haven't failed to examine it, I just don't buy it into a lot of it because scientists are just people with jobs
and those JOBS are to PROVE THINGS using empirical data so that we can move forward with REALITY, not dream-states where you are the high priest alien interpreter for the world
46% who believe... clay less than 10,000 years ago
no empirical evidence as well as proven science trumps clay AND 10,000 yrs... sorry
witness the conflict in this discussion
only between people who desire EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE and YOU, with NO EVIDENCE except your own personal opinion
I can do my own research
if you could GOOGLE you wouldn't be making unsubstantiated claims about aliens and electric pyramids
what's their point, other than to be antagonistic
to try to get YOU to think critically and utilize EMPIRICAL DATA to PROVE YOUR CLAIMS

otherwise your claims are every bit as valid as believers in dead fairies being bought on-line or the EU/Aether acolytes
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 16, 2014
Science has amassed a wealth of evidence which you have failed to examine. How come? There's no reason for others to copy/paste it here for you.
I haven't failed to examine it, I just don't buy it into a lot of it because scientists are just people with jobs, and I have to continually take into account those 46% who believe that a supreme being made us out of clay less than 10,000 years ago, which to my mind means that 46% are seriously mentally disturbed. I mean, witness the conflict in this discussion. And I agree, I can do my own research. But tell me then, what's their point, other than to be antagonistic?

http://sci-ence.o...-flags2/
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
You and your empirical data. The only empirical data we have on the Nazca lines are the fact that they exist. Ditto Tiwanaka. You side with the scientists, and yet they say outright that their ideas on the subject are speculative because they admit that they just don't know the answers. If you read enough books and do enough research on the subject of the ancient pre-Incan mesoamerican civilisation, and all they can really do is offer data for interpretation and speculation, you can piece together the pieces of this puzzle yourself, but I doubt that your narrow-mindedness would permit you to accept what becomes fairly obvious after enough research. You want me to do your work for you. Find an interest in the subject, Stumpy, and refrain from being overly critical when you don't know enough about it.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
RE: empericism - ATLANTIS

The only source that we have for the existence of Atlantis comes from Solon, through his grandson Plato. Solon details the blueprint and architectural features of Atlantis. Plato insists that Atlantis really existed. It was a large (for the time) complex surrounded by artificial water works, which lead many to believe that Atlantis was an island. The city itself was laid out in a rectangular design. All the details concerning the description can be found online.

In short, some serious scholars and researchers decided to take a close look at the legend and concluded that, based on Solon's description of Atlantis, the location of this legendary place is in Bolivia, on a rectangular plain beside lake Titicaca. http://www.atlant...via.org/

empirical data (Solon's description) -> investigation -> conclusion. So, Stumpy, do you believe it?
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
Incidentally, you put the word "buying" into any Google search term and you're guaranteed to return a zillion results.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
The only empirical data we have on the Nazca lines are the fact that they exist
@baud
which is a FAR CRY mroe empirical data you have proving that aliens exist or that your pyramids are electric batteries
you also forgot about Joe Nickell of the University of Kentucky who has reproduced the figures using tools and technology available to the Nazca people
http://books.goog...;f=false

WHOOPSIE... there go your ALIENS and flying people theories
You side with the scientists, and yet they say outright that their ideas on the subject are speculative because they admit that they just don't know the answers
they don't know ALL the answers... however, IF you can make lines and shapes in the desert with simple tools that are visible from the hills, that means that there is FAR more supporting evidence that they were sky watchers and intelligent (resourceful) rather than aliens with electric pyramids
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 16, 2014
If you read enough books and do enough research on the subject of the ancient pre-Incan mesoamerican civilisation
you will find an intelligent and watchful people who knew how to pay attention to detail and figure out how to draw cool stuff... you will find NO EMPIRICAL DATA supporting your aliens or electric pyramids
but I doubt that your narrow-mindedness would permit you to accept what becomes fairly obvious after enough research
I think my boots-on-the-ground experience and past reading history is far more accurate than your conspiracy alien theories with NO evidence
You want me to do your work for you
NOPE. I want you to PROVE YOUR OWN POINT WITH EVIDENCE, which you have FAILED TO DO

this means presenting the SAME LEVEL OF EVIDENCE THAT I AM PRESENTING TO YOU
studies, empirical data, scientific evidence...
NOT speculation, conjecture, delusion and religious fanaticism and the like
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
refrain from being overly critical when you don't know enough about it
so far Ihave provided FAR more evidence supporting MY claims as well as legitimate empirical data, including links... you have only offered delusional speculation based upon your conspiratorial leanings
empericism - ATLANTIS
ABSOLUTELY NO empirical data exists to show that Atlantis exists unless you are talking about the shuttle
empirical data (Solon's description) -> investigation -> conclusion. So, Stumpy, do you believe it?
NOPE> there is NO EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE on your link... only a web page... there is also a web page dedicated to Monty Python... at least THEY were REAL!

you failed to use critical thinking OR the scientific method to produce ANY evidence... So far, you are only digging your hole deeper and proving Vietvet more correct
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Aug 16, 2014
Incidentally, you put the word "buying" into any Google search term and you're guaranteed to return a zillion results.

https://www.googl...s_rd=ssl
About 231,000 results (0.46 seconds)

STILL doesn't validate your findings... just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is true...

also: http://sci-ence.o...-flags2/

P.S. Atlantis was also supposed to have "sunk into the sea" and Bolivia is NOT under water...
Also, There is NO PROOF of an "advanced civilization" the likes of the claims being there...

Sorry alien nut boy... Bolivia is nothing more than a small country trying to draw in an much tourism as possible...

next thing you will try to support is the Bermuda Triangle hoax...
baudrunner
1 / 5 (5) Aug 17, 2014
Stumpy, you're just so obsessed with debunking ideas which conflict with your world view that you're really getting quite boring.

As for the Bermuda triangle, and certain other "triangles" in the oceans of the world, I am satisfied that that mystery has been solved. The spontaneous release of methane gases from the ocean floor causes catastrophic water density changes to the extent that ships can literally drop like a rock to the ocean floor. The effect can be so drastic that airplanes are affected by the radical changes in air pressure over the area and the same thing happens. It is also possible for airplanes to catch fire because the methane gasses are flammable.

If you try even a little bit of Googling, you'll find your friends debunking that one too, but oops!, they're your alien nut friends!
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 17, 2014
I'm quite sane, Stumpy. I'm just so informed about the ideas that you're debunking that my knowledge on the subject far exceeds yours. And by the way, your references are using Erich Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods as reference (which, incidentally, I've never read)!

A little less of feeling important for posting these critiques of yours and a little more genuine research, please, Stumpy. So, do the actual reading, not just finding stuff you think will support your way of thinking after a quick glance and then using it to prop your delusory sense of self-importance.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 17, 2014
you're just so obsessed with debunking ideas which conflict with your world view that you're really getting quite boring
@baud acid trip
actually, my "world view" is quite open... as long as I have evidence that can be proven. The reality around you is FAR more fascinating than you give it credit for... i don't need delusions and made up crap to feel important... I am LONG past that. I've sowed my oats and made my bones
As for the Bermuda triangle
NO mystery there. it is actually one of the safest places in the world to be considering the incredible amount of traffic vs the incidents that you are likely to claim... besides that, I've lived there. there aint NOTHING special about the place other than it tends to be hot
If you try even a little bit of Googling
here we go again... Listen acid trip, YOUR claims, YOUR burden of proof...
YOU made the looney-tunes claims... not I

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 17, 2014
I'm quite sane
@bauddy system
not spouting the crap you have been, you're not
I'm just so informed about the ideas that you're debunking that my knowledge on the subject far exceeds yours
I can guarantee that YOU are FAR MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE about YOUR DELUSIONS than ANYONE else... but you are also nowhere NEAR knowledgeable about the scientific method or empirical evidence
Chariots of the Gods
I've never read it eaither... so?
A little less of feeling important for posting these critiques of yours and a little more genuine research, please
so, you make fallacious claims based upon YOUR delusions which are EASILY debunked with modern science but somehow it is MY fault for not researching more? WTF??
first off: How am I to know about your personal delusions?
second: you have NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE supporting your claims
LASTLY: just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is true... ESPECIALLY when there is NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 17, 2014
So, do the actual reading
@baud proof
why the F*ck would i read a fictitious account made up during an acid trip, or succumb to the delusions of someone else when there is NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE CLAIMS? when you can answer THAT, we might be able to move forward in this discourse
not just finding stuff you think will support your way of thinking after a quick glance
lets see... you are saying i should ACCEPT YOUR faith based conjecture over Empirical evidence? and you say you are SANE? NOT! http://sci-ence.o...-flags2/ ,
using it to prop your delusory sense of self-importance
again back to the self-import claims... and again, i refer you to the FACT that you've provided NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE supporting your claims

Tell you what.... when you can present EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE of your alien/pyramid battery spaceship landing theories, then come back... until then, you will continue to look like the NUTTER that you are
baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Aug 18, 2014
Stumpy, you're an argumentative individual who makes no worthy contributions to these forums. I am 100% sure you yourself don't actually read those links you put in these comments, I sure as hell don't, and that pretty much defines what you are, and that is that you are a disrespectful and annoying troll.

I don't debunk modern science if it reflects the true fundamental nature of reality. Reality is that life exists here, it must exist everywhere in this Universe. Do you think that you're special? You don't believe in aliens but you are one yourself, trolling away on just another world around just another sun, nothing special there, it happens all over the place, it happened here.

I realize that you're not a serious contributor at all, and I am going to refrain from communicating with you because all you do is disparage other contributors' comments. That makes you a troll, and I realize that I've been feeding a troll and that is a violation of posting rules in this forum. Bye.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (4) Aug 18, 2014
@baudrunner

Your last post is a classical example of projection. Captain Stumpy and most here rely on empirical evidence not the crazy crap you post. You make wildly unscientific claims and yet you don't expect ridicule?

TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Aug 18, 2014
I'm quite sane, Stumpy. I'm just so informed about the ideas that you're debunking that my knowledge on the subject far exceeds yours
Heres a collection of similar such experts.
http://www.trekne...preview/

-That doesnt mean their world is any more real than yours.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 19, 2014
you're an argumentative individual who makes no worthy contributions to these forums
@baud idea
well, i let people know when crackpot pseudoscience idiots post things that are unsupported by pseudoscience... I find that REWARDING. if that bothers you, try learning a little about science and pull your head out
I am 100% sure you yourself don't actually read those links you put in these comments
then you are 100% wrong
i read all links before posting them. I may not read through all YOUR links, because i don't read fairy tales. (SEE OTTO's POST ABOVE FOR CLARIFICATION)
I sure as hell don't
you DON'T READ THEM because that would interfere with your delusion! You don't want to know the TRUTH, you want to believe your DELUSION
(again, SEE OTTO'S POST ABOVE)
you are a disrespectful and annoying
I only get disrecpectful when people become stupid
(SEE OTTO'S POST ABOVE- click on the link for examples of STUPID)
just because you WANT it to be real, doesn't mean it IS real
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 19, 2014
I don't debunk modern science if it reflects the true fundamental nature of reality
@baud delusions
that is because MODERN SCIENCE REFLECTS THE TRUE FUNDAMENTAL NATURE OF REALITY WITH EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, which is why your posts above are completely DEBUNKED!
Do you think that you're special
nope
You don't believe in aliens
actually, I DO believe in them... just not that they are here building battery pyramids, abducting rednecks from deserted highways and anally probing them and then stealing away with NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE
I realize that you're not a serious contributor at all
wrong again. what i REQUIRE is empirical evidence. you gave NONE
you gave CONJECTURE supported only by your own FAITH
NO EMPIRICAL DATA AT ALL other than the fact that the lines at Nazca exist

YOU'VE OFFERED NO PROOF, and that is SERIOUSLY STUPID.
what I am is someone who relies upon empirical data to make a decision, and since you have NONE... your comments are nothing but TROLL RELIGION
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 19, 2014
Bye.
@baud brain damage
this is the best thing you have posted on this article yet... and I hope that you can stick to it, not like other TROLL idiots who are known over the net and banned almost everywhere.

you are ANGRY because I will not just ACCEPT your word and the word of a million internet web-sites designed to make money of the stupid.
Perhaps if you stepped back and truly looked at this objectively:
1- just because YOU believe it to be so, doesn't mean it IS REAL
2- there is NO empirical data supporting your conclusions
3- there is PLENTY of supporting data REFUTING your conclusions
4- this is NOT a forum for posting PSEUDOSCIENCE and RELIGION, which is what you are posting BECAUSE IT HAS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE AND IS RELIANT UPON ONLY YOUR OWN FAITH FOR BELIEF

you have produced NO knowledge/post that can't be debunked with science and empirical data
THAT makes YOU the TROLL
and a bad one at at that

Again, SEE OTTO'S POST ABOVE for supporting evidence
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 19, 2014
Well, this article has confirmed it, stumpy is definitely getting paid to spam anything anti-mainstream. He/she relentlessly repeats the same lines over and over again until people quit trying, rarely offering any true insights and only posting from what I assume to be pre-approved list of links.

There is plenty of evidence for some kind of ancient history (alien or not) that is not known, some of my favorites are Gobekli Tepe
http://www.smiths.../?no-ist
The European Bronze age was built on North American copper. What's your explanation for that?
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 19, 2014
Sorry, I tried to edit something. It was supposed to read:

There is plenty of evidence for some kind of ancient history (alien or not) that is not known, some of my favorites are Gobekli Tepe
http://www.smiths.../?no-ist
and the 5000 year old copper mines on Isle Royale
http://www.philip...per.html
The European Bronze age was built on North American copper. What's your explanation for that?
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 19, 2014


The European Bronze age was built on North American copper. What's your explanation for that?


No explanation is needed, your statement is a lie.
http://www.ramtop...per.html
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 19, 2014
The amount of copper that was mined in the Keweenaw area is not found in the Americas. The amount of bronze that was produced during the Bronze Age is unaccounted for by current archaeology, yet there is evidence of Keweenaw copper off the coast of Turkey.
http://www.rocksa...de-1.php
"Recent scientific literature has come to the conclusion that the major source of the copper that swept through the European Bronze Age after 2500 BC is unknown. However, these studies claim that the 10 tons of copper oxhide ingots recovered from the late Bronze Age (1300 BC) Uluburun shipwreck off the coast of Turkey was "extraordinarily pure" (more than 99.5% pure), and that it was not the product of smelting from ore. The oxhides are all brittle "blister copper", with voids, slag bits, and oxides, created when the oxhides were made in multiple pourings outdoors over wood fires. Only Michigan Copper is of this purity..."
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 19, 2014
@Scoofinator

You link to a site where a guy has a book to sell that makes extravagant claims and not a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims.

You don't have a clue about science, the scientific method and most importantly you lack CRITICAL reading and thinking skills.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
You link to a site where a guy has a book to sell that makes extravagant claims and not a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims.
You don't have a clue about science, the scientific method and most importantly you lack CRITICAL reading and thinking skills.
@Vietvet
that is why I didn't bother responding to her... we've been down this road before
Scroof thinks that if there is a web link or someone published something about it, it must be true... you should see her views on plate tectonics!
just re-read what she said
relentlessly repeats the same lines over and over again until people quit trying, rarely offering any true insights
She is saying that my requests for EMPIRICAL DATA are wrong, and that belief because if it is wrong...

after that, I just ignored her post, because guaranteed IF you offer her empirical data as proof, she will NOT read it!
So don't bother, Vietvet... she will IGNORE what you offer, and will only produce data that is BS
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
You don't have a clue about science, the scientific method and most importantly you lack CRITICAL reading and thinking skills
@Vietvet
please also note that the first link to the Smithsonian is about a human holy site with carved rock... so what is she insinuating here?
that prehistoric humans were visited by aliens because they couldn't shape rock without metal tools? Of course! ALL THOSE FLINT KNAPPED arrowheads and spearpoints in the US are ALSO ALIEN ARTIFACTS! I just missed that one! WOW!
then the other links: a magazine article that has NO EMPIRICAL DATA and NO SCIENTIFIC STUDY and then the copper trade with the local US indigenous tribes with Europe? that SOMEHOW just left NO evidence or empirical data?
no study there either, BTW...

so what she offered was PERSONAL CONJECTURE WITHOUT EVIDENCE and nothing of SCIENTIFIC value...

and now...
of course,
I will ask for:
EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES PROVING THE CONJECTURE
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
Vietvet, you posted a rebuttal link to a random page from someones book on 'Dougs Archaeology', how is it any different? The satirical "myth busting" that was strung throughout the whole thing is opinion at best offering no true empirical data, it just sounds like what you want to hear so it's OK. Don't question sources when you also use sources that aren't very sound.

Stumpy, how is clear archaeological evidence not empirical? Please explain your stance.

Here's another link to the copper mines of Isle Royale, hope this one is good enough for you.
http://en.wikiped...#History

"In prehistoric times, large quantities of copper were mined on Isle Royale and the nearby Keweenaw Peninsula. The region is scarred by ancient mine pits and trenches up to 20 feet deep. Carbon-14 testing of wood remains found in sockets of copper artifacts indicates that they are at least 5700 years old"
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
Too many words wasted on off-the-topic mindless criticisms. If one doesn't agree with what is posted then just ignore it. Primary purpose of the forums is to discuss article content, supplement with topic related ideas, practical theories derived from logical deduction based on the material evidence, sharing information etc. in an air of mutual respect and diplomacy.

Book List to Follow..
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
References galore. I can pretty much guarantee that any skeptics who thoroughly read these books with an open mind will question their own world view. There Were Giants Upon Earth is the first book I read on the subject, and halfway through I was so skeptical I thought it a bit improbable and somewhat ludicrous, but I kept on reading it anyway. When I had finished, I was struck with an epiphany of sorts and went right back to the first page and reread the entire book in two sittings, it was that compelling.

http://www.amazon...91431212
http://www.amazon...85093297
http://books.goog...ir_esc=y
http://www.amazon...80718073

Directly related to article content..
http://www.amazon...61379255
Vietvet
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
References galore.


A list of books that make ridculous claims completely devoid of any evidence. The stuff of science fiction/fantasy.
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (2) Aug 20, 2014
A list of books that make ridculous claims completely devoid of any evidence. The stuff of science fiction/fantasy.


They are only ridiculous if you believe everything you were spoon-fed in history class and ignore the bible/vedas/greek legends/etc.... I'm pretty sure there's mention of giants in every old culture.

There is plenty of supporting evidence, you just have to open to an alternative explanation.

The stuff of science fiction/fantasy becomes reality more often than not.

Any other terrible insights marine?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
how is clear archaeological evidence not empirical? Please explain your stance
@scroof
well, first you will have to show how this relates to the conversations with buad and i, and then explain WHY it is relevant, and point out what it specifically refers to, which was kinda my point
They are only ridiculous if you believe everything you were spoon-fed in history class and ignore the bible/vedas/greek legends/etc
the problem with this is thus: even though I LIVED in Greece within visibility of the Parthenon and learned ab out their customs from them... this issue is MOOT here as there is NO empirical evidence tying it to the subject above, NOR is there empirical evidence proving most of the legends/myths

THIS is IMPORTANT!
why? because SCIENCE REQUIRES EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE as well as provable and repeatable experimentation etc...
IF there is a way to create Nazca lines with string, sticks and a few folks, it is HIGHLY more likely to have been done so than requiring aliens etc
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
The stuff of science fiction/fantasy becomes reality more often than not
@scroof
while this is TRUE by watching how sci-fi affects us and how it drives us (for instance: the Star Trek predictions, communicators, wifi, computers etc) there is NO indication that past mythology is in any way anything other than a flight of fancy that was used to explain something that was not able to scientifically explain... such as dinosaurs in China and exposed reptilian structured bones giving life to a legend about dragons. Or that Lakota legends about Wakinyan and their lightning glance, destructive fingers (tornado's)

This means that an imaginative descriptor of what they know (the animal kingdom) was used as a model for their myths/unexplained science (tornado's/storms) and thus the Wakinyan Tanka are born. This is how Myths/religions work.
This does NOT mean there is ANY VALIDITY to their truthfulness. especially without empirical data (like a real dragon or Wakinyan)
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
Any other terrible insights marine?
@scroof
so to tell the truth, what Vietvet is asking for (empirical evidence) only proves that he is the one thinking clearly... NOT baud and the delusional alien/electric pyramid/whatever stories and beliefs

This is the fundamental flaw in bauds thought process. he feels that his knowledge of all things alien/elec pyramid gives him authority, and this would be true at comicon, or a convention of alien believers... but in SCIENCE, he is just another nutcase looking for proof of a delusion.

there are books about fairies, leprechauns, Djin, magic and all that (like Harry Potter) and we KNOW that these are fictitious because there is NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE supporting their declarations...
so then we can examine his book list and IF THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE proving the declarations, then we can justify calling it bullsnot OR ridiculous

EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE is the key, and thus far baud etc have produced NONE
NOT ONE IOTA

baud=ridiculous

Scroofinator
1 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
3000 characters, no new insights, 4 capitalized "EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE" (plus 3 "empirical evidence" and 1 "empirical data").

Dude, I get it already, you're beloved empire loves it's "data". I don't give a shit about our assumed "knowledge" base, I can guarantee it's not 100% truth, very little in science/history is truly settled. So you and the scared majority can keep thinking we know it all, that leaves more for the rest of us open minded folk to discover.

well, first you will have to show how this relates to the conversations with buad and i,

I said: There is plenty of evidence for some kind of ancient history (alien or not) that is not known.
Are we not talking about early human history?

and then explain WHY it is relevant

It's relevant because my two examples are likewise not fully explainable.

and point out what it specifically refers to

It refers to some unknown advanced civilization that influenced (influences?) known human history.

My guess, Atlantis
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
I don't give a shit about our assumed "knowledge" base
we noticed... so WHY are you here on a science site?
I can guarantee it's not 100% truth, very little in science/history is truly settled. So you and the scared majority can keep thinking we know it all, that leaves more for the rest of us open minded folk to discover
IOW - you have no freakin idea what EMPIRICAL evidence is NOR what the scientific method is...
It's relevant because my two examples are likewise not fully explainable...It refers to some unknown advanced civilization that influenced (influences?) known human history.
My guess, Atlantis
and THERE is the difference
you GUESS
science KNOWS

WHY THE [expletive deleted] ARE YOU ON A SCIENCE SITE?

all your disdain and contempt that you show for the scientific method and for modern knowledge is clearly visible

Stick to your conjecture, aliens, Atlantis and intuition
I will stick to SCIENCE and that which is PROVABLE

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
It refers to some unknown advanced civilization that influenced (influences?) known human history.

My guess, Atlantis
and I suppose these are the guys that are in Area 51, right?
or is area 51 the aliens that flew countless light years with incredible technology, evading countless obstacles and threats but could not land a simple device because those scary wild monkeys were smarter than they thought?

do you not see that the CONJECTURE that you hold so firm to is nothing but a suspicion of ANY authority which is fed by your altered brain which is being modified by constant chronic use?
if you want to burn it, fine. I don't personally care
i think it is stupid to make it illegal in the first place... IMHO it is FAR less dangerous than alcohol
however, it DOES affect you (see above)

your issues above may be more related to your pot habit than reality
Whydening Gyre
3 / 5 (2) Aug 20, 2014
My guess, Atlantis

and THERE is the difference
you GUESS
science KNOWS

WHY THE [expletive deleted] ARE YOU ON A SCIENCE SITE?

Actually, Cap'n, in this case, science DOESN'T know and therefore sets the end of the discussion.
BTW, there are many serious archealogical expeditions constantly carried out with re-discovering Atlantis as their goal.
And I've noticed this ain't actually a pure science site. It's more of a "here's what we've been able to observe so far - let's see what the visitors can come up with to argue about" site...:-)
And that's the nature of sensationalist journalism...:-)
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 20, 2014
Actually, Cap'n, in this case, science DOESN'T know and therefore sets the end of the discussion
@Whyde
yes, I can see that... it doesn't know about certain specifics... but...
the point is that the scientific method is about presenting empirical evidence proving a point, not speculating about something and considering this EQUALLY AS VALID as a scientific finding... saying that a speculative article or someone's intuition is PROOF of aliens or alien manipulation in our past is plain stupid.
And I've noticed this ain't actually a pure science site
nope. it is a popular science article site for the sharing of popular articles of a scientific/technical/medical nature

pure science would never let scroof or baud declare such ridiculousness without proof. they would lose their jobs

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Aug 21, 2014
Actually, Cap'n, in this case, science DOESN'T know and therefore sets the end of the discussion
@Whyde
yes, I can see that... it doesn't know about certain specifics... but...
the point is that the scientific method is about presenting empirical evidence proving a point, not speculating about something and considering this EQUALLY AS VALID as a scientific finding... saying that a speculative article or someone's intuition is PROOF of aliens or alien manipulation in our past is plain stupid.

I don't actually think people believe in aliens - but some WANT to...
It would be the modern day equivalent of God showing up.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 21, 2014
I don't actually think people believe in aliens - but some WANT to...
It would be the modern day equivalent of God showing up.
@whyde
actually, i think you hit the nail on the head with that.. in far more ways than one

all this alien stuff, and proof of alien is nothing more than the faith conjectures of a superior being/consciousness and is just the same as the religious faiths that flood the market with their teachings... they all also rely upon the suspension of proof and require a belief SANS proof... in other words... FAITH that it is true!

there is much wisdom in your comment.
perhaps aliens are the new god?
perhaps that is why l.ron.hubbard was so successful with his book and new religion?
there is no shortage of people willing to suspend logic and the need for proof to believe... just look at the posters above like scroof and baud!
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Aug 21, 2014
perhaps aliens are the new god?
perhaps that is why l.ron.hubbard was so successful with his book and new religion?
there is no shortage of people willing to suspend logic and the need for proof to believe...

Humans LOVE a good story (especially children), as it seeds imagination.
Imagination is an important aspect of who and what we are. But it must be also be guided a little, lest we do damage to ourselves or others.
That said, however... How fun would it be if true....:-)
baudrunner
1 / 5 (3) Aug 21, 2014
http://whc.unesco...list/700

If the people believed to have made these lines did so because they were thought to have held extremely devout religious beliefs, why did they not limit themselves to icons, sculpted figurines and shrines? It is a fact that the pre-Incan culture was literate, had written language. Later Incans did not. Their culture degenerated long before the Europeans arrived. It is logical to infer that they were desperately trying to call their "heroes" back from the whence they came. That is why I believe in the ancient astronauts theory http://www.ancien...credible

I see that the skeptics (to put it mildly) ignore the inexplicable details, the unanswered questions, the puzzling evidence, in favor of "Empirical Evidence", when it can't exist short of getting a knock on the door from E.T., which to them means that ancient astronaut theory is ripe for debunking.
Scroofinator
2 / 5 (4) Aug 22, 2014
all your disdain and contempt that you show for the scientific method and for modern knowledge is clearly visible

It's annoying how often you clowns make this statement. There's only one instance that I will ever hold contempt against anything science, and that's when "mainstream science" holds something to be as truth when we know empirically that the explanation doesn't fit the observation. Aliens, ancient history, climate change, genetics, evolution, gravity, etc...
You have faith in your 'science of models', that's fine, but don't bash people that have faith in the true science, the science of theory.

I don't actually think people believe in aliens - but some WANT to...
It would be the modern day equivalent of God showing up.

Eh, I don't know that I would say it would be like god showing up, humans now have the concept of aliens and technology, so I think we would treat such an instance as such.
Do I believe in aliens? Yes, it's mathematically probable.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 23, 2014
It's annoying how often you clowns make this statement. There's only one instance that I will ever hold contempt against anything science, and that's when "mainstream science" holds something to be as truth when we know empirically that the explanation doesn't fit the observation
@scroof
you mean like plate tectonics?
the problem was... you were given empirical data and studies from a peer reviewed site, and education material that is used to teach those who research and generate those studies... and what you gave in return was conjecture and links to pseudoscience.
UNLESS you present evidence that is of equal caliber, then your evidence is no better than common conjecture, and is not valid.

THERE is the fallacy of your retorts to date.
and it is "annoying how often you clowns make this" mistake when posting
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Aug 23, 2014
It is logical to infer that they were desperately trying to call their "heroes" back from the whence they came. That is why I believe in the ancient astronauts theory
@baud
and until you can present empirical evidence and a peer reviewed study of the SAME CALIBER as the information that was provided debunking above, then your conjecture is not only NOT LOGICAL, but absurd and conspiratorial in nature, and thus is simply trolling for emotional response
ignore the inexplicable details, the unanswered questions, the puzzling evidence
1- you've given NO EVIDENCE yet
2- not ignoring the unanswered questions, just noting that there is no answer
3- not ignoring the inexplicable details, just stating that just because it is currently inexplicable, doesn't mean that it is aliens (flawed logic and fallacy)

plus, there was trade over a large area you dismiss.
spear/arrow points from north american states found in south america prove this