Scroll that mentions Jesus's wife is ancient, scientists confirm

Apr 10, 2014
This handout image provided September 19, 2012 by Karen L. King, Hollis Professor of Divinity at the Harvard Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, shows the front side of a fourth-century papyrus fragment

A ancient piece of papyrus that contains a mention of Jesus' wife is not a forgery, according to a scientific analysis of the controversial text, US researchers said Thursday.

The fragment is believed to have come from Egypt and contains writing in the Coptic language that says, "Jesus said to them, 'My wife...'" Another part reads: "She will be able to be my disciple."

Its discovery in 2012 caused a stir. Since Christian tradition has long held that Jesus was not married, it renewed long-running debates over celibacy and the role of women in the church.

The Vatican's newspaper declared it a fake, along with other scholars who doubted its authenticity based on its poor grammar, blurred text and uncertain origin.

Never before has a gospel referred to Jesus being married, or having women as disciples.

But a new scientific analysis of the papyrus and the ink, as well as the handwriting and grammar, show that the document is ancient.

"No evidence of modern fabrication ("forgery") was found," the Harvard Divinity School said in a statement.

The palm-sized fragment likely dates to between the sixth and ninth centuries, and could have been written as early as the second century CE (common era), said the study results published in the Harvard Theological Review.

Radiocarbon dating of the papyrus and a study of the ink using Micro-Raman spectroscopy was done by experts at Columbia University, Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

"The team concluded the papyrus' chemical composition and patterns of oxidation are consistent with old papyrus by comparing the GJW (Gospel of Jesus' Wife) fragment with a fragment of the Gospel of John," said the study.

"Current testing thus supports the conclusion that the papyrus and ink of GJW are ancient."

Anonymous origins

The origin of the papyrus is unknown. Karen King, a historian at Harvard Divinity School, received it from a collector—who asked to remain anonymous—in 2012.

King, a historian of early Christianity, said the science showing the papyrus is ancient does not prove that Jesus was married.

"The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus —- a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued," King said in a statement.

"This gospel fragment provides a reason to reconsider what we thought we knew by asking what the role claims of Jesus's marital status played historically in early Christian controversies over marriage, celibacy, and family."

The fragment measures four by eight centimeters (1.6 by 3.2 inches).

King said its late date—written centuries after Jesus's death—means the author did not know Jesus personally.

Its crude appearance and grammatical errors suggest the writer had no more than an elementary education, she added.

Leo Depuydt, a professor of Egyptology at Brown University, wrote an article, also published in the Harvard Theological Review, describing why he believes the document is fake.

"The fragment seems ripe for a Monty Python sketch," he wrote.

He noted grammatical errors and that the words "my wife" appear to be emphasized in bold letters, which are not featured in other ancient Coptic texts.

"As a student of Coptic convinced that the fragment is a modern creation, I am unable to escape the impression that there is something almost hilarious about the use of bold letters," he wrote.

King published a rebuttal to Depuydt's criticisms, saying in part that blotted ink was common and that the letters below "my wife" are even darker.

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verkle
1.6 / 5 (14) Apr 10, 2014
Why is this news? Since when does carbon dating generate a date of between the 2nd and 9th centuries. Does this mean it was dated to be the 9th century? No detail given. A tiny note written by a child equivalent shows and tells us nothing. Junk story and reporting.

morley clarkson
3.8 / 5 (11) Apr 10, 2014
The actual script has nothing to do with literal marriage, but was a protest for woman's rights - made by Christ (concerning a person's union, and acceptance, with God through Jesus. Be it male or female, particularly female in this case).


In Context, Christ disciples at that time were displeased with the fact that Mary Magdalene had become a commoner within their group and wanted her out. Thus they approached Christ concerning the issue. Making the claim that she (a mere woman) was not worthy to be included.

As most know, their society was more chauvinistic back then, and for a woman to be found in the company of men as an equal was a shame. Men were considered to be the more complete/perfect human being, supreme under God.



Thus Christ made the case for Mary (really all persons) that whosoever enter into union with Him will be accepted as His bride ("my wife") into the Kingdom of Heaven." Story was revolutionary regarding women and was widely disseminated at that time.
morley clarkson
3.6 / 5 (9) Apr 10, 2014
In another 4th Century text, 'The Gospel of Thomas,' the same story is located towards the end of the text. However, instead of the interpretation being that of marriage, the interpretation states that, in Christ, Mary would be transformed into a man, and would be accepted as a man into the kingdom of heaven.



That read in context, didn't mean Christ was going to biologically change Mary into a man. Instead those words were used, at that time, and in that way, because it was understood that the meaning meant that through Jesus 'God would accept a woman' just as he accepts a man. Again, revolutionary statement concerning the times.



For obvious reasons these translations didn't make it into the Bible. However the overall meaning of the proverbial short story did, and was interpreted for Western understanding.
Lex Talonis
Apr 10, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
WarRoom
2.4 / 5 (7) Apr 10, 2014
So either Jesus did not exist or he had a wife. You pick. Either way, prepare for the Pope and others to make some serious revisions to their teachings. It is inconceivable that a first century Jewish man would be 30 and unmarried. Paul was the exception that proves the rule as he was almost certainly gay (his "afflication" as he described it).
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (13) Apr 10, 2014
Junk story and reporting.
No, it's a good story about what appears to be a hoax. But in related news:

"the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort..."

-That's right Jesus may not have been married but Jehovah was. And since they're both the same thing then he was married wasn't he? Oh and he is also his own father by his mother. That's right the unloveable mover has a mom. Get it?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (12) Apr 10, 2014
http://youtu.be/iWX53mMWapg
Well who knows if there was ever such a man? If he was a Jew he would have had a hard time being single back then.

But the charicature the Romans created is something else again. We have a soft-spoken, long-haired, robe-wearing love guru traveling the countryside with his all-male entourage, his mom, and the token harlot. And his mom - the only woman until quite recently able to conceive without being sullied by the touch of a man.

What subgroup of the populace would most readily identify with these 2 personas? Who would be most attracted to the secretive lifestyles in nunneries and monasteries where they would be free to pursue their unique interests? And who could be depended on most to safeguard the secrets of the institution which provided these havens?

This arrangement predates the church. Vestal virgins and eunuch priests were a staple of godman religions. Jesus is only the most successful iteration.
http://youtu.be/iWX53mMWapg
Burnerjack
4.6 / 5 (9) Apr 10, 2014
Jesus was GAY and a lover of the cock...

No pussy munching for him - he is a REAL man.

Troll of the worst sort.
Lex Talonis
1.4 / 5 (10) Apr 10, 2014
Jesus was GAY and a lover of the cock...

No pussy munching for him - he is a REAL man.

Troll of the worst sort.


Praise Jesus... In my name... Verily.... etc.

He had two dads and one of them is in low earth orbit...
Achille
2.1 / 5 (7) Apr 10, 2014
Oh My God! How many Jesus was there at this period in time in Palestine? Which one is it about? Seriously, there is no proof an actual Jesus corresponding to the description made into the New Testament existed. The whole story was written well after his presumed death. The oldest scriptures are dated around the second century and half AD.

This is a make-up story to respond to the destruction of the temple by Roman armies around 70 AD. There is many proofs the facts reflected in the scriptures are not exact. Some of the events described never happened. The new borns slaugther by Herodote in particular. This event is in fact a copy of the same event when the Israeli went out of Egypt.

So, it would be nice if people, in particular scientits, stopped to take this too seriously.

The Jews of the second century AD just reinvented their religion because the temple was no more. The temple was central in the judaism. They invented christianism from ground up using egyptian mythology.
Lex Talonis
1.3 / 5 (13) Apr 10, 2014
Jesus - the man lover of all me, and his 12 boyfriends, was not a myth.

He lives and walks amongst us today as Optimus Prime of the Transformers, Super Man in the League of Justice, The Leader of the Ninja Turtles and Poppa Smurf of the little blue people.

Yeah verily - be ye not fooled by those who lack the ability to shape shift using heavenly powers of Alien Tech, and live in Atlantis on the other side of the moon....

With the gay skin head nazis on their moon base.
Lex Talonis
1.3 / 5 (12) Apr 10, 2014
Jesus - the man lover of all men, and his 12 boyfriends, was not a myth.

He lives and walks amongst us today as Optimus Prime of the Transformers, Super Man in the League of Justice, The Leader of the Ninja Turtles and Poppa Smurf of the little blue people.

Yeah verily - be ye not fooled by those who lack the ability to shape shift using heavenly powers of Alien Tech, and live in Atlantis on the other side of the moon....

With the gay skin head nazis.

http://www.queert...0130802/
Mike_Massen
3.7 / 5 (9) Apr 10, 2014
Surely all claimed deities are the same:-

1. They are thought up mainly by insecure Men
2. They marginalize women
3. Their 'texts' focus primarily on
-- Punishment, Authority & Status
-- There is NO education & especially of means to alleviate suffering
4. They are very bad communicators in all respects
ie. They "communicate" indistinguishable from any story in a book.

The only sane conclusion one can come to re 'works' from any claimed god, deity or higher power is they come from the minds of humans (mainly men), ie Ideas, thoughts, stories - nothing in any
substantive form to show in any way the nature of or the education from a god (with a little 'g')

The story of genesis eg, is characteristic of the surrealism of a vivid dream, doubtless Moses
was sincere in his wish to know why humans suffer just the same as animals but, to blame it
on a woman primarily, is the vile-est idea ever thought at a time when mind alerting drugs were
not illegal & also readily available.
Semmster
2 / 5 (4) Apr 11, 2014
None of you know anything. Therefore, whoever will may ride this bandwagon to wherever they want. As usual.
Lex Talonis
1.4 / 5 (9) Apr 11, 2014
The letter says, "I will make your team win, never mind the 50 million people dying yearly from malaria."

To my good friend and lover John.

Kiss Kiss

Jesus.
savroD
4 / 5 (12) Apr 11, 2014
I think there is more than enough information available to doubt that the "Jesus" the majority of Christians hold dear, existed as they imagine. In talking to most Christians I find that they fervently believe in Jesus, but are absolutely ignorant of the origins of Christianity.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.3 / 5 (7) Apr 11, 2014
@ semmster
None of you know anything
Ah I forgot to mention the seminaries.

The lifestyles of the clergy was well known.

"In an attempt to suppress vice among the clergy, Emperor Charlemagne (800-814), a strong Catholic supporter, issued this edict:

"We have been informed to our great horror that many monks are addicted to debauchery and all sorts of vile abominations, even to unnatural sins. We forbid all such practices and command the monks to cease wandering over the country. Charlemagne, quoted in T. Demetrius, Catholicism and Protestantism, p. 26."

"In 1536, Henry VIII of England appointed commissioners to inspect all monasteries and nunneries in the land. So terrible were the cruelties and corruptions uncovered... "

-Celibacy saved gay priests from having to maintain the sham of traditional marriage. According to the source I got these quotes from, the catholic clergy today is about 50% gay.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 11, 2014
Let's be clear. I am not saying I'm anti-gay like the idiot lex fellatio above. I'm saying that the church was designed from the beginning to take advantage of homosexuals, to remove them from the general populace where their advocacy of non-procreative sex would prevent the maximal growth of pops for the purpose of overwhelming it's enemies.

Homosexuality is inevitable. It may emerge as a natural form of limiting growth, an epigenetic mechanism of neutering children in the womb. Many other species have evolved similar traits.

But it is obvious that the organized religions were all configured to maximize growth, by restricting women to baby-making and by vilifying all forms of non-procreative sex. It would make sense if they had incorporated constructive ways of dealing with this problematic subgroup.
PsycheOne
1 / 5 (12) Apr 11, 2014
The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a true relic of the time when Jesus lived. It holds the image of a man crucified with wounds similar to those inflicted on Jesus. The image was not made by pigments. It contains digital 3D information which has been transferred into an image of the person who was wrapped in the cloth. The face cloth which covered Jesus on the cross has long been known to be authentic. When placed over the face area of the shroud, the location of blood stains match.

It is highly likely that this is the shroud that covered Jesus. And the fact that an image was impressed upon it through no means known to science might be suggestive of there being something special about Jesus.

As for Jesus being married, gospels excluded from the new testament testify to Jesus loving Mary Magdalene more than his other disciples and of kissing her on the mouth (thus enraging his other disciples). He certainly might have married her and fathered children too.
Modernmystic
4.5 / 5 (8) Apr 11, 2014
Interesting the consternation it causes people what other people believe. It's all the more perplexing because the beliefs being discussed are anything but solid verifiable facts, and taken as a whole fantastic and stretching credulity past any limit I personally consider reasonable. Absent a time machine all such issues will likely remain so. I appreciate a good debate, but am becoming baffled how much time and energy is spent on topics like this by people who don't believe and it can't make any possible difference for one way or another....just my observation :)

As a zen master once said "If it really didn't matter to you, then you wouldn't make a point of saying it didn't matter to you".
shavera
5 / 5 (6) Apr 11, 2014
Psyche: try a little experiment at home. Dust your face with flour, then lay a sheet over it, or wrap a sheet around it. Take it off and look at the imprint your face makes. It will be grossly distorted. The mapping from 3-D to 2-D is going to introduce distortions that aren't present on the claimed shroud. If it was a real shroud, we'd see the same distortion. You can do this yourself, don't take my word for it.
Analisa
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 11, 2014
WarRoom: no, is was not unconceivable at all that Jesus was celibate. Actually during the Jesus times and before in Jewish society there were celibate men. It is a recent myth repeated by many, that Jesus couldn't be possible single. One rabbi said that and media repeated it like crazy, and it stuck in people' minds. Actually historians say that the idea that every man should be married was promoted in Jewish society centuries after Jesus death.

And no, I will not choose between Jesus married or not existing, as I am no tan ignorant person, and I live in XXI c. During XIX.c there was an idea that Jesus wasn't existing, today's historians have sources mentioning historical Jesus, dozens of them. So, do you believe that Alexander the Great existed? And yet there are less sources about him than about historical Jesus.

It is naive to think pope should revise something based on a fragment, & we don't even know if this was an anti-christian joke?
Mike_Massen
4.5 / 5 (8) Apr 11, 2014
PsycheOne made Many claims
The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a true relic of the time when Jesus lived. It holds the image of a man crucified with wounds similar to those inflicted on Jesus.
Proof Please (PP) refs ?
The image was not made by pigments.
PP
It contains digital 3D information which has been transferred into an image of the person who was wrapped in the cloth
PP, All printing is 3D just thin :-)
The face cloth which covered Jesus on the cross has long been known to be authentic.
PP, got a pic of Jesus to compare ?
When placed over the face area of the shroud, the location of blood stains match.
PP, Match what, pictures or story ?
It is highly likely that this is the shroud that covered Jesus.
PP.
& the fact that an image was impressed upon it through no means known to science might be suggestive of there being something special about Jesus.
PP, Science "The Discipline of the Acquisition of Knowledge"

Religion = NO discipline
Analisa
5 / 5 (2) Apr 11, 2014
I am not very excited about GJW. Sure, it is interesting. The fragment may be authentic maybe not. From my limited knowledge about forgers: forged pictures are painted on old canvas, texts written on old pieces of papyrus, etc. According to the analysis the ink seems to be ancient. What it means? You can't carbon date the ink, & little fragment of papyrus like that are not carbon dated. What is the analysis of the ink say? because is quite easy to prepare inks, paint etc. using the old pigments etc. Forgers can be very savvy about it, fooled experts before.

I don't take this Gospel ( why call it gospel when it only a fragment, not even a scroll or several pages with some missing) as a gospel, it is a papyrus fragment, and it should be called Jesus Wife papyrus. And was really a part of christian dispute about celibate vrs. married status or not? Who knows for sure? There were also anti-christian writings, may it is one of them? Too many questions beyond hype to say for sure.
Mike_Massen
5 / 5 (3) Apr 11, 2014
Modernmystic (please) should read & understand ALL the zen texts & their derivatives & the divergent interpretations in formal & informal studies of Comparative Religion & ideally travel widely, as I have, in meetings with many who do not 'shout their place in the world'.
As a zen master once said "If it really didn't matter to you, then you wouldn't make a point of saying it didn't matter to you".
4 U this phrase comes to mind - or rather words to the effect:-

"To all as of our brethren there are things which may or may not matter to us now with our current state of mind, however it arises but, will indeed matter to those we may subsequently assist on the path they have yet to tread, as such let us maintain earnestly the widest compassion for those that will seek & come after us and by our effort placed in readiness now allow them to stand tall and seek a more prescient truth for them and their descendants which we all ultimately desire experience of.."

"What is a rose...?"
Analisa
4 / 5 (4) Apr 11, 2014
PsycheOne: even if the cloth on which the image of Turin is made was from the first century ( and the area of the world, based on pollens in the cloth, etc) doesn't mean that the image was not made later, on old cloth. Savvy forgers try to find old support for their work. Also Medieval times had a relic craze, and forgeries were made. Carbon dating can be somehow problematic if the material was exposed to fire, like it happened with the cloth. But carbon dating shows that the cloth is medieval.

And yes, there are pigments on the fabric(hematite which is a mineral pigment). No one, however, forbids anyone to make statement of faith, (belief in relics), this is part of freedom of opinions, and I respect that.
Analisa
5 / 5 (2) Apr 11, 2014
TheGhostofOtto1923: church didn't try to remove homosexuals from general population. Only nobility was able to enter monasteries, become priests, etc. It was rare for a person of humble origins to be able to make career in the church, to become a priest, a nun, etc. And quite many people who lived in the monasteries missed the comforts of the courts in which they grew up.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (6) Apr 11, 2014
WarRoom: no, is was not unconceivable at all that Jesus was celibate. Actually during the Jesus times and before in Jewish society there were celibate men
nudge-nudge wink-wink. I already said the practice was ubiquitous.
Only nobility was able to enter monasteries, become priests, etc
So there were no gay nobility? Common gays were burned as examples while noble gays could serve god.
missed the comforts of the courts in which they grew up.
Oh I'm sure but there were certain compensations weren't there? Bacchanalia, as I said, predates xianity.
OZGuy
3.9 / 5 (7) Apr 11, 2014
The Shroud of Turin has been proven to be a true relic


Really?

By whom?
When?
How? Did someone ID him? (Yes officer that's Jesus I'd know his face anywhere).

if it's true can't we try to extract DNA and clone him? That way you could have a living relic and the church could make a fortune ( OK a BIGGER fortune than they currently hold) and the Pope can have even more/better gold plates to eat off. I'm sayimg Pope but the court case between the churches as to which church is the accurate representive would be a beauty. Maybe Russell Crowe could make a movie out of it or should it be Mel Brooks?

Be curious to see what happens when he eventually died; would they hold a 4-day concert at top dollar per ticket and then rollout clone number 2 to keep the cash registers ticking over?.
Lex Talonis
1.4 / 5 (11) Apr 11, 2014
Jesus did not ascend to heaven.

He left his foreskin behind.
Lex Talonis
Apr 11, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
PacRim Jim
5 / 5 (1) Apr 12, 2014
Nanotechnology will open new vistas in forgery.
d_robison
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 12, 2014
It is always interesting to see new items of history being uncovered regardless of the changes (or lack thereof) in our understanding of the events those items describe.

This is a potential discovery about Jesus the man (and about history), no one cares about your faith or anti-faith sentiments on these forums.
Sinister1812
3 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2014
Nah, the scroll was written yesterday.

It's Jesus's wife that's ancient..
EyeNStein
not rated yet Apr 13, 2014
Comment by EyeNstein calling this article a waste of cyberspace: Confirmed as recent by Metadata on Phys.org
kelman66
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 13, 2014
References to Jesus' wife written several hundred years afterwards is as irrelevant as someone writing it today.
Plus, ancient delusion is still delusion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Apr 13, 2014
References to Jesus' wife written several hundred years afterwards is as irrelevant as someone writing it today.
Well this also applies to many of the books and parts of books in the xian canon (any of the conflicting 3 or 4) for exactly the same reason. Doesn't it?
http://www.amazon..._redir=1
Plus, ancient delusion is still delusion.
The FACT is that archeologists, some of them very religious and desperate indeed, have been digging in the Middle East for a century. Not only have they found NO evidence of the events, places, and people described in your book; they HAVE found an abundence of evidence which tells them that those stories in the book could not have happened. Because other things were going on which would have made them impossible.

So anyone who is aware of this FACT and can still believe in god and Jesus and Mohammed, must be delusional. By definition.
davidivad
5 / 5 (1) Apr 13, 2014
the articles name is silly.
of course his wife would have been ancient...
Elon Musk 2_0
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 13, 2014
Wow, another great told you so moment for Mormons! We've been theorizing about who Jesus married for the past 200 years! Since marriage is necessary for eternal progression and Jesus was a perfect man it would make sense for him to have married (otherwise he wouldn't be perfect.) There have been so many Mormon moments in archaeology in the past 50 years. Glad to see the trend isn't faltering yet. (Perhaps it never will.)
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Apr 13, 2014
Wow, another great told you so moment for Mormons! We've been theorizing about who Jesus married for the past 200 years!
Theorize all you want. I theorize that your book of Abraham is a crude forgery. The swindlers who concocted your religion took common Egyptian scenes of their animal gods and substituted human heads. Voila! Proof that biblical patriarchs were in Egypt.

I don't care how big your tabernacle is. Your religion is just one more rube trap. Don't feel too bad - they all are.
Moebius
3 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2014
This is the kind of stuff that will never see the light of day if it's found by a 'religious' archeologist.
Dug
5 / 5 (1) Apr 13, 2014
And the disciple said unto Jesus - "That's your wife? You dog, you."
thatsitalright
not rated yet Apr 14, 2014
"King, a historian of early Christianity, said the science showing the papyrus is ancient does not prove that Jesus was married."

This is kinda like saying, "An old drawing of a leprechaun with a pot of gold does not prove that leprechauns actually like gold."

The mind boggles.
Lex Talonis
1 / 5 (4) Apr 14, 2014
Jesus had leprechaun friends, he loves everyone.

He had to bind them up with tape to stop them from bursting first though.

Mike_Massen
5 / 5 (3) Apr 14, 2014
By all accounts Jesus, if he did in fact exist - despite the fact he never wrote anything (sad case of his dad not offering an education), then he was an extremely amiable sort of person with a great deal of compassion for others, there is a known genetic condition which has this 'flavour'...

http://en.wikiped...syndrome

Elon Musk 2_0
1 / 5 (6) Apr 14, 2014
TheGhostofOtto

The Book of Abraham is actually evidence for the truth of the Mormon church. What critics don't understand is that Joseph translated the Book of Abraham as it actually was. If after thousands of years of re-drawing and re-drawing the same text is it not likely that the actual thing would be completely different? Drawing is not a precise art. Texts change the same way. Its simply a fact. so its easily possible that the Book of Abraham is true. Evidence for that truth of the BoA is that many of the scenes shown in the BoA having to do with Abraham we now know Abraham did. So Joseph Smith forged a book that contains true parts of Abraham's life that nobody knew about the time??? Its ridiculous. Joseph Smith was not a fraud. The BoA is a true book, as true as the Book of Mormon, which also has mounds of evidence for its truth.
Lex Talonis
1 / 5 (4) Apr 14, 2014
Joseph Smith was a crack addict.

Evf
1 / 5 (2) Apr 14, 2014
@ morley clarkson you don't "biologically change" from female to male, that is something that a person decides. Biology is not involved in it. See here. http://transgender.tumblr.com
Lex Talonis
1 / 5 (5) Apr 15, 2014
Jesus biologically changed, to satisfy his disciples and their friends.

He loved all men, and then changed back again.
Mike_Massen
5 / 5 (4) Apr 15, 2014
Elon Musk 2_0 claimed
Joseph Smith was not a fraud. The BoA is a true book, as true as the Book of Mormon, which also has mounds of evidence for its truth.
Why is any god least of all an impotent mormon god not able to communicate OTHER than by a book ?

Why didnt he/she/it translate to all other peoples on earth at the same time so as to be fair ?

Don't you get it - pretender Elon Musk 2_0 ?

TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 15, 2014
The Book of Abraham is actually evidence for the truth of the Mormon church
"The controversy intensified in the late 1960s when portions of the Joseph Smith Papyri were located. Translation of the Egyptian text revealed that the rediscovered portions bore no relation to the Book of Abraham text... "[T]hese three facsimiles of Egyptian documents in the 'Pearl of Great Price' depict the most common objects in the Mortuary religion of Egypt.

"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud .... Smith has turned the goddess [Isis in Facsimile No. 3] into a king and Osiris into Abraham... "[T]he god Anubus, bending over the mummy, was shown with a human and strangely un-Egyptian head, instead of a jackal's head usual to the scene."

-IOW a shameful HOAX.

And huxters do not receive revelations from god. There is a reason the angel messenger was named Moroni. These shysters were laughing at you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (6) Apr 15, 2014
So Joseph Smith forged a book that contains true parts of Abraham's life that nobody knew about the time???
There is no evidence that Abraham is anything more than a myth. There is however a great deal of evidence that there never were 2M Hebrews in goshen. EVER.

Nor did they wander throughout a Sinai desert fully occupied by garrisoned Egyptian troops, nor could they have waged genocide against the inhabitants of Palestine, burning over 200 cities, towns, and villages, because the garrisoned Egyptian army occupied it as well.

Plus there is no evidence that such destruction ever took place. Jericho for instance had been a ruin for a century or two by the time Joshua would have gotten there. Archeology tells us these things.

You believe in a god who wrote books full of confirmed lies. Shame on you.
Torbjorn_Larsson_OM
5 / 5 (2) Apr 15, 2014
Putting the likely fake aside, the likely date of the material puts it as noncontemporary with the myth the text (whether modern fake or ancient fake) purports to describe. Even the stressed date makes it no older than the earliest dedicated christianist myths as described by actual historical accounts that has been cross verified.

The abrahamic earliest accounts is of course the Dead Sea Scrolls, who testify that none on the later sects such as christianism or judaism existed before 2 200 years ago, but that there was a generic material that later splits roots in. Seems even "biblical scholars" like these buffoons that believes the myth is real acknowledge that. So this nicely confirms these sects late evolution yet again.
pandora4real
not rated yet Apr 16, 2014
Putting the likely fake aside, the likely date of the material puts it as noncontemporary with the myth the text (whether modern fake or ancient fake) purports to describe. Even the stressed date makes it no older than the earliest dedicated christianist myths as described by actual historical accounts that has been cross verified.

The abrahamic earliest accounts is of course the Dead Sea Scrolls, who testify that none on the later sects such as christianism or judaism existed before 2 200 years ago, but that there was a generic material that later splits roots in. Seems even "biblical scholars" like these buffoons that believes the myth is real acknowledge that. So this nicely confirms these sects late evolution yet again.


uhhh... You don't realize that it's the same age as the oldest extant copies of the gospels, do you? There are no texts from earlier, so, hey yeah, let's dump the gospels too! Glad a xtian finally realized what fake lit looks like!
Lex Talonis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 17, 2014
Jesus and Joseph Smith starred in Ghost Busters.....

That proves their existence.
verkle
1 / 5 (3) May 13, 2014
Phys.org should report that this whole story has now been deemed a hoax.
As I said in the first post above, this is a junk story and junk reporting.

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