World's largest particle smasher set to push physics into unknown

May 6, 2016 by Nina Larson
A worker rides his bicycle in a tunnel of the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) Large Hadron Collider during maintenance works in Meyrin, Switzerland on July 19, 2013

The world's most powerful proton smasher is preparing for its biggest run yet which scientists hope will uncover new particles that could dramatically change our understanding of the Universe.

"We are exploring truly fundamental issues, and that's why this run is so exciting," physicist Paris Sphicas told AFP at Europe's physics lab, CERN, last week.

"Who knows what we will find," he added, with CERN saying preliminary results from the run could be available in the next few months.

Scientists had been gearing up to resume experiments at the LHC this week, but the plans were delayed after a weasel wandered onto a high-voltage electrical transformer last Friday, causing a short-circuit.

CERN told AFP that experiments were now expected to get underway next week.

Late last year, before CERN shut down its Large Hadron Collider (LHC) for a technical break, two separate teams of scientists said they had discovered anomalies that could possibly hint at the existence of a mysterious new particle.

The discovery of a new particle could prove the existence of extra space-time dimensions, or explain the enigma of dark matter, scientists say.

The LHC, housed in a 27-kilometre (17-mile) tunnel straddling the French-Swiss border, has shaken up physics before.

In 2012 it was used to prove the existence of the Higgs Boson—the long-sought maker of mass—by crashing high-energy proton beams at velocities near the speed of light.

A year later, two of the scientists who had in 1964 theorised the existence of the Higgs, also known as the God particle, earned the Nobel physics prize for the discovery.

A worker stands below the Compact Muon Solenoid of the Large Hadron Collider during maintenance on July 19, 2013 in Meyrin, Switzerland

'Totally unthinkable'

The Higgs fits in with the so-called Standard Model—the mainstream theory of all the fundamental particles that make up matter and the forces that govern them.

But the anomalies, or "bumps", seen in the data last December could indicate something completely new.

Going beyond the Standard Model would "mean that there is yet another unbelievable idea out there. Something that is totally unthinkable," Sphicas said.

The LHC, he said, could unveil whole new dimensions, help explain dark matter and dark energy, of which we have no understanding but which together make up 95 percent of the universe.

The giant lab might also prove the exotic theory of supersymmetry, SUSY for short, which suggests the existence of a heavier "sibling" for every particle in the universe.

The unexpected excess pair of photons spotted last year could be a larger cousin of the Higgs, according to one theory.

"Who knows, maybe there's a whole Higgs family out there," Sphicas said.

But to determine whether the observed data "bump" is merely a statistical fluctuation or could actually be the first cracks in the Standard Model, much more data is needed.

When the massive machine comes back online, it is expected to quickly pile up astounding amounts of data for scientists to pick through for clues.

Very rare phenomena

After the Higgs discovery, the LHC underwent a two-year upgrade, reopening last year with double energy levels which will vastly expand the potential for groundbreaking discoveries.

The LHC ran for six months last year at the new energy level of 13 teraelectronvolts (TeV), but since the machine was just getting started again, it was not pushed to create the maximum number of collisions.

Once it gets started again, the machine at its peak should see two beams each containing around 273,600 billion protons shoot through the massive collider in opposite directions, slamming into each other with a joint energy level of 13 TeV to produce two billion collisions a second.

"What we are looking for are very rare phenomena, (and) when you are looking for very rare phenomena you need a very large number of collisions," Frederick Bordry, CERN director for accelerators and technology, told AFP.

"We are really at an energy level that enables discoveries," he said, adding that he expected the lab to have clarity by the end of summer on whether the data "bump" was more than "statistical noise".

Bordry added that the proton smasher is due to run until 2019.

"If we have nature on our side, I think we will discover new particles and open a new road for physics beyond the Standard Model," he said.

Explore further: Pop goes the weasel as Hadron Collider shuts down (Update)

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larryw4csc
1.3 / 5 (28) May 06, 2016
We won't be happy until we create something really destructive that we cannot control. We're pretty close at Fukushima, but not quite there, yet.

120,000,000 nuclear cancer deaths to date. Physics has some awful blood on its hands, I'm sorry to say. Too bad it cannot keep the physics away from the greedy, corrupt politicians and to just physicists. Our doom is inevitable. Ask the mothers near Hanford.
enenews.com/scientists-120-million-cancers-caused-nuclear-radiation-leading-60-million-deaths-war-crime-greater-magnitude-occurred-recorded-human-history-video
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (23) May 06, 2016
@larryw4sc
What is the connection between LHC and nuclear energy / weapons?
The figure of 120 million nuclear deaths is rather large.
What is it based on?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (19) May 06, 2016
The sicentist can not find nothing fundamental new with the help of CERN, because of the caused by the structure of vacuum of space limitations on such kind of experiments. They are trying to transfer the energy of the acceleration magnets of this large facility to the accelerated material particles, but thanks to the exponential growing resistance of the structure of vacuum of space with their speed, these particles loose their energy only to heating up this structure locally for a while. In this way is established energetic balance between the recieved and the released by accelerated particles energy and as a consequence they aquire only kinetic energy according to formula (m x v^2)/2. So this expensive high tech fasility was biult on fundamentaly wrong concept and remains useful only for the workers in it to pay their month wages by feeding the modern mitholgogies in society.
cantdrive85
1.7 / 5 (24) May 06, 2016
Title needs help;
'World's largest physics clowns set to push physics further into pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo'

http://www.holosc...iggs.jpg
Phys1
4.4 / 5 (21) May 06, 2016
@viko_mx
Wrong again. CERN already did many times find fundamentally new physics.
This happens because you your capacity to think is disabled.
Please find a solution to enable thinking and then come back.
Phys1
4.2 / 5 (24) May 06, 2016
@cd45
Your argument against physics - you oppose physics as a whole - is based on a photoshop job?
Intellectually, you are a cockroach.
cantdrive85
2 / 5 (21) May 06, 2016
@cd45
Your argument against physics - you oppose physics as a whole - is based on a photoshop job?
Intellectually, you are a cockroach.

Please, I implore you to "permanently ignore" me some more.
greenonions
4.7 / 5 (23) May 06, 2016
I watched the documentary 'Particle Fever' a few weeks ago. Fun documentary - although not a lot of science in it. My favorite part though - was the Texas senator - talking about the funding cuts to the U.S. collider - that torpedoed the project. He was all proud that the Europeans 'steal' all of our technology - so now we can get them back - and steal theirs. No clue about an open source - global - science program - and these are our leaders....
viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) May 06, 2016
?Phys1

I am not interested of baseless emotional declarations and strongly prefer scientific explanations for which I strongly doubt that you are not able to give.
So far the CERN team found only virtual particles that is try to justify the existence of this useless for the fundamental science but expensive fasility.
viko_mx
1.7 / 5 (18) May 06, 2016
The luck of useful ideas and creativity in the world of religious materialism is not secret to the observant and thinking persons.
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (17) May 06, 2016
A draft paper describing an alternative to the Standard Model of particle physics, that predicted the new particle discovered at CERN, has been written by Ken Rauen, AESOP's Chief Technical Officer, and the inventor of six of AESOP's fuel-free engines. Titled: An Introduction to Temporal Wave Mechanics (TWM) - it supplements Quantum Mechanics. Copies are available from mark@aesopenergy.com upon request.
antigoracle
2.8 / 5 (13) May 06, 2016
Title needs help;
'World's largest physics clowns set to push physics further into pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo'

http://www.holosc...iggs.jpg

Is it Higgs boson or bozon?
Seriously though, that was over the line.
Tektrix
5 / 5 (17) May 06, 2016
@ Mark_Goldes
. . . Ken Rauen, AESOP's Chief Technical Officer . . .


You guys ever make the billions you said you would from those run-forever engines of yours?
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (15) May 07, 2016
"The LHC, he said, could unveil whole new dimensions, help explain dark matter and dark energy, of which we have no understanding but which together make up 95 percent of the universe."

Yes, some people are just not happy with the 3 dimensions that we know to exist already. They want many more. The burning question is: IF they find more dimensions, what will they do with them?
And yes, many other dimensions DO exist, but nobody in their right mind would want the inhabitants of those "new" dimensions coming through into our own...even accidentally.
Or maybe these scientists are NOT in their right mind after all. Their inquisitiveness borders on insanity. I await their discovery of new dimensions with dread.
georgesardin
1 / 5 (11) May 07, 2016
The sicentist can not find nothing fundamental new with the help of CERN, because of the caused by the structure of vacuum of space limitations on such kind of experiments. They are trying to transfer the energy of the acceleration magnets of this large facility to the accelerated material particles, but thanks to the exponential growing resistance of the structure of vacuum of space with their speed, these particles loose their energy only to heating up this structure locally for a while. In this way is established energetic balance between the recieved and the released by accelerated particles energy and as a consequence they aquire only kinetic energy according to formula (m x v^2)/2. So this expensive high tech fasility was biult on fundamentaly wrong concept and remains useful only for the workers in it to pay their month wages by feeding the modern mitholgogies in society.

Tony Lance
4.1 / 5 (8) May 07, 2016
When is it due to restart?
Edenlegaia
5 / 5 (12) May 07, 2016
"The LHC, he said, could unveil whole new dimensions, help explain dark matter and dark energy, of which we have no understanding but which together make up 95 percent of the universe."

Yes, some people are just not happy with the 3 dimensions that we know to exist already. They want many more. The burning question is: IF they find more dimensions, what will they do with them?
And yes, many other dimensions DO exist, but nobody in their right mind would want the inhabitants of those "new" dimensions coming through into our own...even accidentally.
Or maybe these scientists are NOT in their right mind after all. Their inquisitiveness borders on insanity. I await their discovery of new dimensions with dread.


You don't know how useful it could be to us either. Something tells me those guys have a wider view of the picture than you.
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.4 / 5 (14) May 07, 2016
The scientists talking to the media are characteristically optimistic. No one knows if the Standard Model breaks down at the energies LHC (or a hgh energy, precision linear accelerator successor) can reach. The SM could very well be valid up to inflationary/Hot Big Bang energies, where then neutrino masses and the matter/antimatter symmetry may have an explanation.

@larry: Give it a rest. Most cancers caused by radioactivity are caused by fossil fuels, where especially coal minerals are a massive source. Everybody knows that replacing that with nuclear planet energy would cut such unnecessary diseases massively.

@cd: So you accept that you and the crackpot viko here ('religious' science) are trolls? Most trolls are adolescents that sits in their mommy's cellar with an internet connection, since they can't get girls in RL. That fits your (lack of) abilities of ignorable ignorants, sure. =D
Phys1
4.4 / 5 (14) May 07, 2016
@viko_mx
"I am not interested of baseless emotional declarations and strongly prefer scientific explanations for which I strongly doubt that you are not able to give.
So far the CERN team found only virtual particles that is try to justify the existence of this useless for the fundamental science but expensive fasility."
You only say this because you have no clue about field theory.
TechnoCreed
5 / 5 (10) May 07, 2016
When is it due to restart?

They have resumed normal activities https://op-webtoo...usr=LHC3
Da Schneib
4.6 / 5 (9) May 07, 2016
@Tony
When is it due to restart?
CERN told AFP that experiments were now expected to get underway next week.
I'm going with "next week."

@Techno
They have resumed normal activities http://https://op-webtoo...usr=LHC3
Looks like they were a day early. Good for them.
Phys1
4.4 / 5 (13) May 07, 2016
@cd45
Your argument against physics - you oppose physics as a whole - is based on a photoshop job?
Intellectually, you are a cockroach.

Please, I implore you to "permanently ignore" me some more.

Everybody should permanently ignore you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) May 07, 2016
The sicentist can not find nothing fundamental new with the help of CERN, because of the caused by the structure of vacuum of space limitations on such kind of experiments
This is what you guys said when you tried to keep us from sailing the atlantic, and when you burned Giordano Bruno.

New things scare the hell out of you. How come?

Maybe because your god didn't tell you about them first?
Mark_Goldes
1.7 / 5 (12) May 07, 2016
Tektrix Two engines, a Ford and a Kia, have been converted to run without fuel due to the brilliant work of inventor Chris Hunter. Two more prototypes, a Briggs & Strattton and a Mitsubishi V6, are under construction by AESOP. They include proprietary improvements by Ken Rauen, author of the paper on TWM that predicted the anomalous particle observed at CERN. After certification by a distinguished independent lab, the new engine technology will be licensed to the world's manufacturers. They can modify existing engine designs to run without fuel. Millions of fuel-free engines are a fast path to replacing oil and gas. And a small fuel-free engine in a hybrid or electric car can provide on-board recharge. Since the engines can run 24/7 cars, trucks and buses so equipped can sell power to the grid (V2G) or power buildings. See aesopinstitute.org to learn more.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (7) May 07, 2016
?Phys1
All fields can exist only in real physical environment - the structure of vacuum of space in this case. Otherwise became abstract mathematical constuctions which are completely disconnected from physical reality.
viko_mx
1.3 / 5 (12) May 07, 2016
"This is what you guys said when you tried to keep us from sailing the atlantic, and when you burned Giordano Bruno."

You make big fundamental mistake.
The sicentist Giordano Brune was burned by representives of roman catholic church because it was calling into doubt one of their numerous unbliblical dogmas. Cathilicism is not christianity but paganism worshiping the sun, dressed in christian clothes with the idea to hide from the world its truly nature.
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (13) May 07, 2016
@viko_mx
As I said when it comes to fields you don't know what the hell you are talking about. You are obsessed with religion and that brought your intellect to a halt.
rrrander
1 / 5 (7) May 07, 2016
Be a problem if what they find exceeds their mathematics to explain it. I also wonder what would have happened to the weasel if it had actually been in the beam path.
lincruste
1 / 5 (7) May 08, 2016
@rrrander It would probably be destroying Manhattan by now
viko_mx
1 / 5 (8) May 08, 2016
?Phys1

When it comes to science you do no have the ability to give scientific arguments.

"As I said when it comes to fields you don't know what the hell you are talking about. You are obsessed with religion and that brought your intellect to a halt."

It is obvious for everyone that this is not scientific arument. It is only your typical emotional declaration because of lack of scientific knowledge and critical thinking.
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (9) May 08, 2016
Indeed, this is not a scientific argument.
You do not have the required level in field theory.
hjones
5 / 5 (6) May 08, 2016
who thought physics could be so entertaining-you(know-nothing) guys are funnier then the youtube kooks!
gunnqu
1 / 5 (4) May 09, 2016
"You shall not find any new physics, because all physical events are interpreted well-known particles (leptons, quarks, and gauge bosons) and forces which have long known (electroweak, gravity, strong interactions)."
Quznetsov G 2013 Logical foundation of fundamental theoretical physics (Lambert Academic Publ.)
http://vixra.org/...51v6.pdf
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (4) May 09, 2016
Yes that's what we need more unknowns. Let's not use common sense that we already know everything. Just that we don't understand how to assemble, only disassemble. This is very sad science! Who's in charge, the dumbest guy in the world?
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (8) May 09, 2016
Be a problem if what they find exceeds their mathematics to explain it.

they are hoping for exactly that (not that it exceeds the math - but the known physics. You can't really "exceed math")

I also wonder what would have happened to the weasel if it had actually been in the beam path.

Since the collider beam is in a high vacuum there's no way for it to get in (unless it was stuck in there during the vacuum buildup phase...in which case it would have suffocated long before the beam was switched on).

But in an earlier collider, in Russia, that happened (to a human). Look up "Anatoli Bugorski". Or ask him yourself. He's still alive (went on to finish his PhD after the incident, too)
Ryan1981
5 / 5 (2) May 10, 2016
Anyone wondering how smashing particles on to each other with high speeds could result in an indication of other dimensions?
Tektrix
4.9 / 5 (8) May 10, 2016
Millions of fuel-free engines are a fast path to replacing oil and gas.


Dozens of evidence-free claims are a fast path to incredulity.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (9) May 10, 2016
Anyone wondering how smashing particles on to each other with high speeds could result in an indication of other dimensions?

Here's what the CERN guys have to say about this (don't ask me to show you the math on that one. That's beyond me)
http://cms.web.ce...mensions

Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (6) May 10, 2016
Tektrix

Precisely why the Kia engine is bring prepared for independent lab verification and Certification.

All prototypes have been invited to go to recognized labs for that purpose.

Skepticism is understandable until that process if completed.
jim_xanara
3.4 / 5 (10) May 11, 2016
Phys1 4.2 /5 (21) May 06, 2016
@cd45
Your argument against physics - you oppose physics as a whole - is based on a photoshop job?
Intellectually, you are a cockroach.


Cockroaches routinely do things that I've never seen CD come close to. You can write bots that have more varied responses.
Protoplasmix
5 / 5 (6) May 11, 2016
@Mark_Goldes – With respect to Fourier analysis, how is "Temporal Wave Mechanics" not redundant?
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (5) May 12, 2016
Protoplasmix

I adminster AESOP Institute but am not a scientist. If you send me an email: mark@aesopenergy.com I will send you: An Introduction to Temporal Wave Mechanics as well as supplemental materials. If you do not find an answer therein, it contains contact information for Ken Rauen and Bill Harrington. I suspect they will provide the reply you seek.
nikola_milovic_378
May 12, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
nikola_milovic_378
May 12, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Phys1
5 / 5 (6) May 12, 2016
Nobody should be afraid that they will produce something which has produced Creator of the universe, and they are not aware of it. I can only provoke a chain reaction of disintegration of matter in which they exercise experiments.
These are all stories for young children.

You are a deluded soul. I hope one day you will find a ray of light in your darkness and confusion.
I'd pray for you, but , hey, I am an atheist.
Protoplasmix
5 / 5 (7) May 12, 2016
@Mark_Goldes, thanks for the reply. After some checking I see my question was both naive and ambiguous. I'm just curious about science... this being a science site and all. If you can't bring the science here, and you're plying the crowd for funds, then why aren't you using the crowd funding sites?
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (5) May 12, 2016
What's a "Temporal Wave Mechanics?"
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) May 12, 2016
What's a "Temporal Wave Mechanics?"


That is the prerequisite for studying Quantum Temporal Dynamics, and that is followed by the Dense Aether Foamy Wave Model.

Ask the Google-Skippy to tell you about the Quantum Temporal Dynamics, it is a lot better looking than the Earthling Play House.

EDIT ME: Choot, I will do the heavy lifting for you, I had him my drawer of "interesting couyons". Here you go,,, http://www.quantu...ics.com/
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (7) May 13, 2016
Protoplasmix

Once it is further along, we will probably bring the TWM science here.

The fund raising does not pertain to TWM, but to our Fuel-Free technologies which grow out of other scientific breakthroughs. For example Ken Rauen's engines that will run without fuel and circumvent the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That work is on our aesopinstitute.org website. A WHITE PAPER is also available upon request. Two fuel free engines presently exist as Open Source projects. Rauen has invented improvements which AESOP is patenting. That will allow existing manufacturers to modify current production to eliminate need for fuel. As it happens we are looking into crowd funding at the moment.
Da Schneib
4.5 / 5 (8) May 13, 2016
How many Temporal Wave Mechanics does it take to change a light bulb?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (5) May 13, 2016
Protoplasmix

The fund raising does not pertain to TWM, but to our Fuel-Free technologies which grow out of other scientific breakthroughs. For example Ken Rauen's engines that will run without fuel and circumvent the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That work is on our aesopinstitute.org website.

From what I can gather; Functionally, it sounds a lot like a Sterling engine...
Heat differential. Not really messing with 2nd law - just using it...
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (6) May 13, 2016
Rauen engines are not Carnot limited. They are circumventing the Second Law (and will cause it to be modified accordingly). Stirling engines are Carnot limited. They cannot run on atmospheric (ambient) heat. These new engine designs are designed to run 24/7/365, replacing fuel with solar energy stored in the atmosphere, a reservoir of solar energy exceeding all of earth's fossil fuel potential energy. They can change the energy landscape. Imagine hybrid cars with unlimited range that become power plants when suitably parked, selling electricity to the grid (V2G) or powering buildings (V2B). Cars, trucks and buses could eventually pay for themselves.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (5) May 13, 2016
Rauen engines are not Carnot limited. They are circumventing the Second Law (and will cause it to be modified accordingly). Stirling engines are Carnot limited. They cannot run on atmospheric (ambient) heat. These new engine designs are designed to run 24/7/365, replacing fuel with solar energy stored in the atmosphere, a reservoir of solar energy exceeding all of earth's fossil fuel potential energy. They can change the energy landscape. Imagine hybrid cars with unlimited range that become power plants when suitably parked, selling electricity to the grid (V2G) or powering buildings (V2B). Cars, trucks and buses could eventually pay for themselves.

Sterlings run on heat differential. Your engine uses propane as a "coolant" to offset the ambient heat in the atmosphere. Setting up a heat differential.
Ergo, functionally like a Sterling.
Quit trying to re-invent the wheel.
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (3) May 13, 2016
There are both similarities and differences. Rauen engine design began with analysis of factors that were overlooked in Stirling engines. What Rauen calls the Proell effect is important to understand the difference. See the aesopinstitute.org website for additional information. The WHITE PAPER contains more detail. Only converted engines use propane. Rauen engines need no propane or any refrigerant.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (5) May 13, 2016
Hmmmm, if it uses a temperature differential then it is not circumventing the 2LOT any more than a thermocouple does. Noted.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) May 13, 2016
aesopinstitute.org website for additional information.
The only additional informations they have there is the informations about where to send the check.

The WHITE PAPER contains more detail.
Non Cher, it does not have any more details, just same details wrapped up in more gobbledygook.

They are circumventing the Second Law (and will cause it to be modified accordingly).
Now that is GREAT BIG NEWS. Is the physorg comment pages the only place you can get the word out? That's even bigger news than, than, well, just about any science news I can imagine. That's bigger than aliens landing on the White House lawn. Choot, even a drone on the White House lawn made the papers,,,,
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (3) May 13, 2016
When engines have been certified by recognized independent labs that big news will be announced. Until that time, skeptics will understandably dominate.

In the meantime, TWM provides an indication that serious science is afoot.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (6) May 13, 2016
In the meantime, TWM provides an indication that serious science is afoot.
Must not be all that serious if the comment section of the physorg is the place where nobody is ever found discussing it. Why that is Cher?
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (3) May 13, 2016
As TWM becomes understood, that is likely to change. A replacement for the Standard Model is obviously needed. To the surprise of almost everyone, TWM may prove to fill that role.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) May 13, 2016
As TWM becomes understood, that is likely to change.
Cher, I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but if it has not been understood by now, it probably don't have a lot going for it.

A replacement for the Standard Model is obviously needed.
It is obvious that you don't really know how to use the word "obviously".

How often you hear the real scientist-Skippys standing around talking and saying stuff like "A replacement for the Standard Model is obviously needed, because it just is not working and is so wrong it's obviously useless."? It's the crankpots that are saying stuff like that.

To the surprise of almost everyone, TWM may prove to fill that role.
The crankpots say stuffs like that too.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. I notice you use some of Zephir-Skippy Aether Wave stuffs (without giving credit for it), did you have to pay him for that or did you just "borrow" it from his postums here?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) May 13, 2016
In the meantime, TWM provides an indication that serious science is afoot.
Must not be all that serious if the comment section of the physorg is the place where nobody is ever found discussing it. Why that is Cher?

To be fair, Ira, there is a Wiki page on it...:-)

And to Mark Goldes. - EVERYTHING is Carnot limited...
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
TWM on Wiki has nothing whatever to do with Temporal Wave Mechanics.

Rauen claims his engines are the first to not be Carnot limited. Once independent lab validation is complete, you may discover this is indeed new physics.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
Just send money, right Goldie?

Gimme a break. Please take your free energy scam someplace where there are more marks you can get free money from.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
To be fair, Ira, there is a Wiki page on it...:-)
Please link, @Whyde.
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
"In this present world …a revolutionary idea or invention is hampered in its adolescence – by want of means, by selfish interests, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance. It is attacked and stifled, and passes through bitter trials and tribulations. … All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed, only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle." Nikola Tesla

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
To be fair, Ira, there is a Wiki page on it...:-)
Please link, @Whyde.

Apologies, The Da. I saw the term is used in a discussion on coherence.
I will retract that statement.
And, also apparent from MG's last comment - it isn't THAT kind of "temporal wave" discussion, anyway...:-)
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (3) May 14, 2016
"In this present world …a revolutionary idea or invention is hampered in its adolescence – by want of means, by selfish interests, pedantry, stupidity and ignorance. It is attacked and stifled, and passes through bitter trials and tribulations. … All that was great in the past was ridiculed, condemned, combated, suppressed, only to emerge all the more powerfully, all the more triumphantly from the struggle." Nikola Tesla



Why it is all the crankpots think that quoting Tesla wins the argument? Mark-Skippy, maybe you should try the "just like Galileo" one too. Never worked before but who knows, maybe that one will work for you.

Cher, the idea is either good or bad. It will work or it won't work. Tesla is not one of the potential marks,,, uh,,, I mean investors. He can not endorse your scam,,, er,,, I mean opportunity.

Mark_Goldes
2.3 / 5 (3) May 14, 2016
Tesla suggested in 1900 that engines could run on atmospheric heat - and that this would be the ideal way to utilize solar energy. He stated that this would be the most important engine ever invented.

Jacob Wainwright, a Civil Engineer, began delivering papers in 1902 outlining how and why such an engine was possible. His early paper can be found under SECOND LAW SURPRISES on the aesopinstitute.org website. He made a few errors and there were important omissions.

Ken Rauen read Wainwright's work a few years ago and they provided the missing insights for practical engines. He corrected the errors and omissions.

Chris Hunter has converted two engines to run without fuel on atmospheric heat, proving Tesla and Wainwright had important insights.

Since engine manufacturers can modify existing designs to function without fuel, this is a Silver Bullet. Millions of engines of all sizes can be produced at billion dollar engine foundries worldwide, replacing fossil fuels.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (3) May 14, 2016
Well Mark-Skippy. You came to the right place. Telling the same lie over and over and over is a common thing here with the crankpots. Maybe Hannes-Skippy, CantNAZIdrive-Skippy, Zephir-Skippy, Bachoot-Skippy, Chooter-Skippy, Badrunning-Skippy, Obama's-Skippy, JVK-Skippy and Reg-Monday-Skippy will see your stuffs and send you some money, it's right up their ally.

And they deserve to get in on the ground floor of an opportunity like this.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) May 14, 2016
Since engine manufacturers can modify existing designs to function without fuel, this is a Silver Bullet. Millions of engines of all sizes can be produced at billion dollar engine foundries worldwide, replacing fossil fuels.

Considering how automotive and oil are dug into eachother like ticks on a dog, you're gonna be hard-pressed to get those engine companies to make the switch...
As to Tesla and Wainwright - I will do a little research of my own...
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (1) May 14, 2016

Nikola Tesla Essay The Problem of Increasing Human Energy 1900

"Self-acting engine" "The ideal way of obtaining motive power" A machine that can gather heat from the ambient air.

Jacob Tripler Wainwright The Fallacy of the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Feasability of Transmuting Terrestrial Heat into Available Energy 1902

GOOGLE Books (Free Download)

He delivered additional papers on this topic for 20 years.

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) May 14, 2016

Nikola Tesla Essay The Problem of Increasing Human Energy 1900

"Self-acting engine" "The ideal way of obtaining motive power" A machine that can gather heat from the ambient air.

Interesting piece. Mr. Tesla waxed fairly philosophical...:-)
Didn't get all the way through, but did read that part. So Mr. Rauen has access to Tesla's notes and diagrams? And came across/developed the 3rd required element?
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Ken Rauen patented an engine (see above) designed to run on atmospheric heat along the lines Tesla suggested. It could not overcome friction. However, the Wainwright papers, which AESOP came across about 3 years ago, provided him with the missing insights that make possible practical engines.

Chris Hunter began converting a 1939 Ford tractor engine to run on atmospheric about a decade ago. He got it to work in 2004 by filling it with propane as a refrigerant. He proved Tesla and Wainwright were on the right track. He is now completing a similar conversion of a Kia 4 cylinder engine.

Rauen has extensive background in thermodynamics. He has improved and simplified our conversions. He has also designed and is patenting 4 engines which need no propane. 2 are piston engines and 2 are turbines.

Another member of our team is building a fuel-free turbine prototype of his own design.

Companies that build small engines, such as Briggs & Stratton, will be early licensees.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (2) May 15, 2016
@ Mark-Skippy. You keep repeating the same "has done"'s and "will do"'s over and over. But why you can't talk about the "how to"'s and "why this"'s? You seem like you are trying to sell us something, not explain something.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. What this has to do with the CERN-Skippys' particle accelerator? Are they also defying the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics? Cher, you really need to try to explain how the Law don't work anymore, not just "it's not right". If you can't do that,,,, GET OVER THERE IN THE CORNER AND SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP. Yeah, with the silly looking pointy cap on your head.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) May 15, 2016
Chris Hunter began converting a 1939 Ford tractor engine to run on atmospheric about a decade ago. He got it to work in 2004 by filling it with propane as a refrigerant. He proved Tesla and Wainwright were on the right track. He is now completing a similar conversion of a Kia 4 cylinder engine.

So.. he started work in 2006 (on a 1939 engine) and got it working in 2004...
Let me guess - Time travel part of these engine conversions, too?
Another member of our team is building a fuel-free turbine prototype of his own design.

A la - V. Schauburger turbine?

Uncle Ira
not rated yet May 15, 2016
@ Everybody. You can't make this stuffs up, it's some of the silliest stuffs I never did hear about.

@ Mark-Skippy. How about you tell us about the POWERGENIE machine? Yeah the one you blow the horn at and the magnetic rods sends back the energy to use? Or the wind powered motor cycle, that was a good one too.
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Uncle Ira, The wind-electric hybrid was the cover story for Popular Science in November, 1976. We designed the power-train. The vehicle was built by the inventor and his son. It was freeway capable and cruised at 65 mph in a 13 mph crosswind.

As you can see, we have been seeking alternatives to oil for a long time. We have made our share of mistakes. R&D in cutting edge technologies takes them for granted.

The Ford engine was working in 2014, not 2004. Typo!

We are happy to discuss TWM. To the surprise of almost everyone, I believe it will ultimately be accepted as the replacement for the Standard Model. That certainly will be even harder to believe than engines that need no fuel.

However, as it proves its merit it may open a few minds to the fact that Rauen's engines are based on solid science. Since they may help all of us survive, that is no small matter.

Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Uncle Ira, The wind-electric hybrid was the cover story for Popular Science in November, 1976.
But tell the trut Skippy. That was NOT your wind powered motor cycle. And how many of them were built and sold?

We designed the power-train.
Well they did not give you the credit for it in the article, why that is?

The vehicle was built by the inventor and his son. It was freeway capable and cruised at 65 mph in a 13 mph crosswind.
65 mph? Non Cher, it topped out at 47 mph, with the batteries powered assist. What? You did not think somebody here would read the 1976 article?

In forty years it's come a long way, eh? See them everywhere, do you Cher?

But I really want to know more about the motor that works by blowing horns at the magnets, how that is coming along?
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Since you have the article, note the mention of SunWind Ltd. That was the AESOP affiliated firm that designed and built the power system. The vehicle exceeded 65 mph many times after that article was printed, on wind power alone. The AP featured that story in newspapers. We never claimed to have built the vehicle.

The inventor of that magnetic system went on to invent promising magnetic generators which are still in R&D. They are as hard to believe possible as engines that need no fuel or a replacement for the Standard Model. Time will tell the tale.

Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Time will tell the tale.
Non Skippy, not "will tell" the tale. Time "has told" the tale, eh?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Time will tell the tale.
Non Skippy, not "will tell" the tale. Time "has told" the tale, eh?

Numerous times over the last 12000 years of written history...:-)
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Time will tell the tale.
Non Skippy, not "will tell" the tale. Time "has told" the tale, eh?

Numerous times over the last 12000 years of written history...:-)


I bet you think I was making the joke when I told about his motor that worked by honking a horn at the magnet? Non, he really was pushing that about 20 or so years ago.

It's called the POWERGENIE, (that stands for Power Generation of Electricity by Nondestructive Interference of Energy.) Ask Google-Skippy to tell the tale about that one.
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Throughout history naysayers are quick with ridicule and derision. Physicist Lord Kelvin: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible and x-rays a hoax". Many physicists said Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) could not detect cancers. Raymond Damadian, inventor of the MRI said : "Criticism and skepticism come with the territory of invention and innovation. The bolder the innovation, the harsher the criticism."

Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. Robert Anton Wilson

Billions have been spent (and most of it wasted) for more than 40 years to achieve hot fusion.

AESOP is developing science and technology (on a relative shoestring) that is likely to prove the planets fast path to superseding fossil fuels.

TWM is expected to provide the missing alternative to the Standard Model.

Cheers!

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) May 15, 2016
Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. Robert Anton Wilson

TWM is expected to provide the missing alternative to the Standard Model.

Since I live in a Universe of infinite possibility (along with it's sister - dwindling probabilities), I try to keep an open mind.
Would be a little easier if you explained (just a little, even) WHAT TWM is about...
At this point it sounds like - 3d sequential frame referencing model...
Still fluid mechanics, but with time as the fluid...
Mark_Goldes
1 / 5 (2) May 15, 2016
ABSTRACT: Temporal Wave Mechanics (TWM) is a unique mathematical approach that studies the relationship of particles and energy structures at the atomic level and below, with respect to standing wave behavior determined by the ratio of mass/energy between them. The theory and discipline has produced a very successful, simplified and abstract geometric topology that resembles Boolean Algebra, but where the greatest global divisor and common denominator is time, not binary logic. Conceptually separate from every other theory, it parallels the 11 dimensions of String Theory through completely different processes, yet confirms Einstein.

An Introduction to TWM and supporting documents are available upon request: mark@aesopenergy.com

TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) May 18, 2016
Hey there "breakthrough energy guy" I see you got banned over on sciforums which explains what youre doing here.
Mark_Goldes
3 / 5 (2) May 18, 2016
The Wright Brothers were widely considered frauds for 5 years after the flight at Kitty Hawk.

Human survival requires rapid replacement of fossil fuels. New science typically takes a generation to find wide support. Skepticism comes with the territory.

Prototype engines that need no fuel are slowly moving toward completion and independent laboratory validation. Speeding that process may save a great many lives.

The fact that the inventor of six fuel-free engines is also an author of TWM suggests that very important new science is being born.

As Tesla pointed out in my quote above, new ideas are attacked and poorly supported.

Since lives are at stake, I will keep posting where possible.

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