Last month was hottest August since 1880 (Update)

September 18, 2014
A tractor kicks up dust in an unplanted field on September 5, 2014 in Los Banos, California as California suffers its third year of drought

Last month was the hottest August on record for global average temperatures over land and ocean surfaces, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said Thursday.

If the trend continues, 2014 could set records for planet-wide heat, raising fresh alarm at the pace of global warming and the burning of fossil fuels.

The month's temperature was 1.35 degrees Fahrenheit above the 20th century average, the agency said in its monthly climate report.

"It was the largest departure from average of any month on record," said Jake Crouch, a climate scientist at NOAA, noting that record-keeping began in 1880.

The month's average land and ocean surface temperature was 61.45 Fahrenheit (16.35 Celsius). The 20th century average for August is 60.1°F (15.6°C).

The period between January and August was also the third warmest on record, said the report.

"If we continue a consistent departure from average for the rest of 2014, we will edge out 2010 for the warmest year on record," Crouch told reporters.

"Another way to think of that, if the next four months—September through December—if each of those months rank among the five warmest on record, 2014 will be the warmest year on record for the globe," he added.

Most of the global oceans were much warmer than average last month, Crouch said.

On land, temperatures across the United States were near average, while parts of Europe, central Asia and Australia were near average or slightly cooler than average.

Even the arrival of El Nino, leading to warmer waters in the Equatorial Pacific and a wetter-than-normal season, is not likely to be enough to re-establish disappearing water reservoirs on the US west coast due to a devastating drought in recent years, experts said.

"This year's El Nino is probably not going to be the savior for ending the drought in California," said Alan Haynes, service coordination hydrologist at NOAA's weather service.

"We don't expect it to be in that drought-busting category."

Explore further: April global temperature tied for highest since 1880, NOAA reports

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75 comments

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antigoracle
1.5 / 5 (17) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.
tscati
4.5 / 5 (15) Sep 18, 2014
@antigoracle

What aspect of 'average' are you having difficulty understanding?
interictal
4.2 / 5 (15) Sep 18, 2014
Really antigoracle, what motivates you to do this ?
Vietvet
4.5 / 5 (17) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.


I've got data. What do have besides an ignorant opinion?

http://www.latime...ory.html
runrig
4.7 / 5 (14) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.

2% of the Earth my friend.
You're 98% short there.... don't let it stop your denial though, eh!
Rhetorical.
rockwolf1000
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.

2% of the Earth my friend.
You're 98% short there.... don't let it stop your denial though, eh!
Rhetorical.


Coincidentally, 2% is also the total allotment of his IQ compared to that of the average person.

Do better ignoracle!
joepetjr
1.7 / 5 (12) Sep 18, 2014
Yet we had one of the coldest summers ever. The temperature only was above 90 three times this summer. More political science for dummy's.
Vietvet
4.7 / 5 (14) Sep 18, 2014
Yet we had one of the coldest summers ever. The temperature only was above 90 three times this summer. More political science for dummy's.


Did you read the previous posts?
snoosebaum
1.7 / 5 (11) Sep 18, 2014
if you want to nail GW enthusiasts look at diurnal temperature range.. This should be the cornerstone of AGW but the data is near flat, and i bet pure desert data is true flat. Also odd there seem to be few papers on this key subject.
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (14) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.


I've got data. What do have besides an ignorant opinion?

http://www.latime...ory.html

And, where did you get that data from you ignorant VietMoron.
According to NOAA, from the 1930s to 1998 the US cooled while the rest of the world warmed and since 1998 the rest of the world has cooled and guess what, suddenly the US is warming.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 18, 2014
Yet we had one of the coldest summers ever. The temperature only was above 90 three times this summer. More political science for dummy's.


Ah diddums.
Try telling that to to most of the rest of the NH.....

http://data.giss....;pol=rob
runrig
4.7 / 5 (13) Sep 18, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.


I've got data. What do have besides an ignorant opinion?

http://www.latime...ory.html

And, where did you get that data from you ignorant VietMoron.
According to NOAA, from the 1930s to 1998 the US cooled while the rest of the world warmed and since 1998 the rest of the world has cooled and guess what, suddenly the US is warming.


Err from here...
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/

Like it says in the article.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (13) Sep 18, 2014
if you want to nail GW enthusiasts look at diurnal temperature range.. This should be the cornerstone of AGW but the data is near flat, and i bet pure desert data is true flat. Also odd there seem to be few papers on this key subject.


Would you like to look at the ocean heat data?
No, of course not. Silly question.
But here it is anyway....

https://c479107.s...7576.jpg
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (15) Sep 18, 2014
Hey runrig, please sit down and take another gulp of your cult's Kool-aid you are going to need it.
http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/
Vietvet
4.7 / 5 (14) Sep 18, 2014
Hey runrig, please sit down and take another gulp of your cult's Kool-aid you are going to need it.
http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/


Once again you've proved you don't know how to read a graph. Moron.
antigoracle
Sep 18, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Vietvet
4.7 / 5 (13) Sep 18, 2014
@anti

You've never shown an ability to have an intelligent conversation and no one expects one from you now.

Why don't you explain what the graph shows?

http://oceans.pmel.noaa.gov/
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Sep 18, 2014
"A Broadway-styled musical play has gone down to disastrous failure both critically and from audiences, despite having been funded by tax dollars to push global warming.

"The Great Immensity," was just as advertised; immense. Not just an immense bomb, but according to one Congressman an immense waste of the $700,000 in tax dollars spent to float the production. "
http://www.breitb...eviewers
snoosebaum
1.5 / 5 (8) Sep 18, 2014
@ runrig , notice i didn't say there was no warming, i can see 100yrs of glacial melt where i live, the point is DTR undercuts the warm blanket idea.
orti
1.3 / 5 (12) Sep 18, 2014
Everybody knows 1880 was another year of peak CO2. So were the entire Medieval and Roman warmings.
thermodynamics
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 18, 2014
Orti the village idiot said:
Everybody knows 1880 was another year of peak CO2. So were the entire Medieval and Roman warmings.


1880 was not particularly hot, that was just when they started the recorded instrumented records.

As far as I can tell, they didn't record temperatures during the Medieval and Roman "warmings."

As for those times being warmer, are you saying that you trust the estimates (and models) well enough to decide those were warmer times?

Do you understand that there are error bars associated with any measurement or estimation?
orti
1.4 / 5 (11) Sep 18, 2014
And the 4000year Holocene climatic optimum -- man-made cooking fires you know.
SteveS
4.6 / 5 (9) Sep 18, 2014
September 2013 to August 2014 warmest on record

http://www.ncdc.n...880-2014
Whydening Gyre
4.6 / 5 (10) Sep 19, 2014
Orti the village idiot said:
Everybody knows 1880 was another year of peak CO2. So were the entire Medieval and Roman warmings.


1880 was not particularly hot, that was just when they started the recorded instrumented records.

Well, technically... that makes 1880 the very FIRST hottest year on record...:-)
runrig
4.6 / 5 (13) Sep 19, 2014
"A Broadway-styled musical play has gone down to disastrous failure both critically and from audiences, despite having been funded by tax dollars to push global warming.

"The Great Immensity," was just as advertised; immense. Not just an immense bomb, but according to one Congressman an immense waste of the $700,000 in tax dollars spent to float the production. "
http://www.breitb...eviewers


???????????
Is it just me?
runrig
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 19, 2014
And the 4000year Holocene climatic optimum -- man-made cooking fires you know.

If this isn't jesting.... Then look up Mr Milankovitch and his orbital cycles, eh, there's a good boy/girl.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 19, 2014
Everybody knows 1880 was another year of peak CO2. So were the entire Medieval and Roman warmings.

The *medieval* and "Roman" world wasn't .... If you see what I mean.
No? thought so.
runrig
4.6 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
@ runrig , notice i didn't say there was no warming, i can see 100yrs of glacial melt where i live, the point is DTR undercuts the warm blanket idea.

Not that I am aware of.

http://cawcr.vm.c...9998.pdf
artist1270
1.3 / 5 (13) Sep 19, 2014
In my college statistics class we learned how to "average" anything and make the result come out to whatever we wanted it to be.
Average temperatures? Of the whole planet Earth, really? Take your jokes somewhere else. They're not funny anymore.
NOM
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 19, 2014
In my college statistics class we learned how to "average" anything and make the result come out to whatever we wanted it to be.
... and the brighter students learned statistics.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (12) Sep 19, 2014
In my college statistics class we learned how to "average" anything and make the result come out to whatever we wanted it to be.
Average temperatures? Of the whole planet Earth, really? Take your jokes somewhere else. They're not funny anymore.

No, you certainly are not funny, like all the other science deniers on here.
Look. The point is it's a measure that has been used for a century and therefore is comparable with the past.
Oh, yes indeed .... The Arctic is VERY much not measured properly, and so AGW has a built in cold bias as a result
Kindly share with us your *better* way of measuring the ave global temp - that also has a hundred years of data.
FFS
alchemist from bristol
4.6 / 5 (10) Sep 19, 2014
August 2014 was the 354th consecutive month of above average global temperatures ... that is 29 years and 6 months of above average global temperatures. "Ask the majority of climate scientists: Carbon pollution from dirty energy is the main cause of global warming." http://clmtr.lt/c/Mt60cd0cMJ
gkam
4.1 / 5 (13) Sep 19, 2014
There is no question of AGW.

The only question is why we have deniers.

The answer is political prejudice.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Sep 19, 2014
"In Burlington the temperature reached the freezing mark for the earliest time in the season since 1964! That data is according to the National Weather Service in Burlington.
"http://www.mycham...gjMRdF_Q
Vietvet
4.6 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
"In Burlington the temperature reached the freezing mark for the earliest time in the season since 1964! That data is according to the National Weather Service in Burlington.
"http://www.mycham...gjMRdF_Q


Get back to us when you know the difference between weather and climate.
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (12) Sep 19, 2014
Hey vietmoron, get back to us when you grow a brain and then someone would explain the difference to you.
Vietvet
4.6 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
Hey vietmoron, get back to us when you grow a brain and then someone would explain the difference to you.


I know the difference, obviously neither you nor ryggy do.
runrig
4.6 / 5 (9) Sep 19, 2014
"In Burlington the temperature reached the freezing mark for the earliest time in the season since 1964! That data is according to the National Weather Service in Burlington.
"http://www.mycham...gjMRdF_Q


http://www.bbc.co...29247767
antigoracle
1.7 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
Hey runrig, perhaps vietmoron could explain the difference between climate and weather to you.
casualjoe
4.4 / 5 (7) Sep 19, 2014
Anti, do you live somewhere really cold, wanting the planet to heat up so you can wear shorts in March?
gkam
3.9 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
"Anti, do you live somewhere really cold, wanting the planet to heat up so you can wear shorts in March?

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...tml#jCp"

His name should tell you his cause. It is political.
Vietvet
4.6 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
Hey runrig, perhaps vietmoron could explain the difference between climate and weather to you.


You're too dense the to see the irony of runrig countering your complaint of feeling a chill while huge swaths of the country are sweltering.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Sep 19, 2014
"In Burlington the temperature reached the freezing mark for the earliest time in the season since 1964! That data is according to the National Weather Service in Burlington.
"http://www.mycham...gjMRdF_Q


Get back to us when you know the difference between weather and climate.

One month is not climate.
Vietvet
5 / 5 (11) Sep 19, 2014
"In Burlington the temperature reached the freezing mark for the earliest time in the season since 1964! That data is according to the National Weather Service in Burlington.
"http://www.mycham...gjMRdF_Q


Get back to us when you know the difference between weather and climate.

One month is not climate.


Of course one month isn't climate, it's weather. That was the point of runrig's link.

What was the point of your link?
runrig
5 / 5 (9) Sep 20, 2014
Hey runrig, perhaps vietmoron could explain the difference between climate and weather to you.

Hey Anti perhaps someday you will learn the concept of irony ( hint have a chat with ryggy ... who I was replying to) .... and the reason I posted up that link... but i'm not holding my breath.
If you need me to spell it out for you then you're further gone than I thought.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Sep 20, 2014
"Last month was the hottest August on record for global average temperatures over land and ocean surfaces,"

"If the trend continues, 2014 could set records for planet-wide heat, raising fresh alarm at the pace of global warming and the burning of fossil fuels."

One month out of one year is a trend?
'Fresh' alarm? How about stale.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Sep 20, 2014
"While the past two decades have seen progress in climate science, the field is not yet mature enough to usefully answer the difficult and important questions being asked of it. This decidedly unsettled state highlights what should be obvious: Understanding climate, at the level of detail relevant to human influences, is a very, very difficult problem."
"Policy makers and the public may wish for the comfort of certainty in their climate science. But I fear that rigidly promulgating the idea that climate science is "settled" (or is a "hoax") demeans and chills the scientific enterprise, retarding its progress in these important matters. Uncertainty is a prime mover and motivator of science and must be faced head-on. It should not be confined to hushed sidebar conversations at academic conferences. "
(Dr. Koonin was undersecretary for science in the Energy Department during President Barack Obama's first term)
http://online.wsj...565?mod=
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Sep 20, 2014
"Any serious discussion of the changing climate must begin by acknowledging not only the scientific certainties but also the uncertainties, especially in projecting the future. Recognizing those limits, rather than ignoring them, will lead to a more sober and ultimately more productive discussion of climate change and climate policies. To do otherwise is a great disservice to climate science itself."
http://online.wsj...ng_now_1

But this guy worked for an OIL company! He can't be trusted by AGWites.

"His previous positions include professor of theoretical physics and provost at Caltech, as well as chief scientist of BP, BP.LN +0.42% where his work focused on renewable and low-carbon energy technologies."
runrig
5 / 5 (8) Sep 20, 2014
"Last month was the hottest August on record for global average temperatures over land and ocean surfaces,"

"If the trend continues, 2014 could set records for planet-wide heat, raising fresh alarm at the pace of global warming and the burning of fossil fuels."

One month out of one year is a trend?
'Fresh' alarm? How about stale.

How about a complete lack of comprehension born out of complete denial.

No.
The trend is a series of warm months globally during 2014 - which if it continues would make this year the warmest on record (presumably for GISS data).

http://www.climat...rd-18041
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Sep 20, 2014
warmest on record

1 year out of a hundred + years on record on a planet 4 billion years old.
Some record.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (7) Sep 20, 2014
If you still don't believe NOAA is falsifying data
http://stevengodd...-the-us/
runrig
5 / 5 (7) Sep 21, 2014
If you still don't believe NOAA is falsifying data
http://stevengodd...-the-us/


http://www.ncdc.n...e-v2.pdf
"There are other extensive results files there too, but unfortunately, it's all a jumble of numbers. AFAIK, no graphics. So I thought I would provide some. Below is a histogram of the effect of changing TOB from 5pm to 9am for each of the 190 stations considered by Jerry, and of subsequent changes to midnight (standard). There is also a table from the original paper by Karl et el, 1986, which showed that over the years in the US, about 30% of stations made such a change to 1986. Many more stations would have changed to effectively midnight reporting when MMTS came in. Ther mean effect of the change is 0.66°C cooling. It is no surprise that USHCN adjustments have the effect of "cooling the past"."
http://moyhu.blog...obs.html
Egleton
5 / 5 (4) Sep 21, 2014
Just pay the the carbon tax. If you dont, the government will get it some other way.
You are not going to escape paying taxes unless you are the Coke Kings.
The Coke Kings cannot escape the carbon tax because it is too broad- It turns up in their gin and tonic.
Those who are paid to troll by the Coke Kings should look carefully at which side their bread is buttered. Would you prefer to have the Uber Rich .001% also pay taxes?
Then switch sides and make the bastards share the tax burden.
Shootist
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.


It isn't falsification so much as it is cherry picking data.

"Generally speaking, I'm much more of a conformist, but it happens I have strong views about climate because I think the majority is badly wrong, and you have to make sure if the majority is saying something that they're not talking nonsense." - Freeman Dyson
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
make the bastards share the tax burden.

"The top 1 percent, who President Obama has made a target during the presidential campaign, earns 13.4 percent of all pre-tax income, but paid 22.3 percent of taxes in 2009, "
http://www.washin...e-taxes/
runrig
5 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
After the shortest, coolest summer we already had snow.
If you still believe NOAA is not falsifying data, then I suggest you move north where you can enjoy the freeze.


It isn't falsification so much as it is cherry picking data.

"Generally speaking, I'm much more of a conformist, but it happens I have strong views about climate because I think the majority is badly wrong, and you have to make sure if the majority is saying something that they're not talking nonsense." - Freeman Dyson

I know your friend isn't imaginary... But you seem to consider him some sort of God just the same.
Has that ever made sense? Thinking someone has all the answers. The sensible know the answer to that.... Just as surely as Dyson does not regarding climate science.
runrig
5 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
make the bastards share the tax burden.

"The top 1 percent, who President Obama has made a target during the presidential campaign, earns 13.4 percent of all pre-tax income, but paid 22.3 percent of taxes in 2009, "
http://www.washin...e-taxes/

Ryggy, I don't know about how many others on here, but I don't give a flying f^^* about US taxes, what you pay, or what the top 1% pays.
Whatever it is it is less than me.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
Thanks egleton for confirming the ignorance of the AGW Chicken Littles. You truly believe the uber rich will be affected by a carbon more than the rest of us. They will just pass the burden down you moron. And, if you think it will affect their lifestyle, then just take a gander at your False "Profit" Al, who isn't even near the .001%, but is burning electricity and flying private jets like there is no tomorrow.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
Whatever it is it is less than me.

Are you bragging or complaining?
runrig
5 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
Whatever it is it is less than me.

Are you bragging or complaining?

Neither ... you don't get to judge me by your standards.
As I said I don't give flying f**^ about your taxes ... or mine, so long as can afford them.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
I don't give flying f**^ about your taxes ... or mine,

What a good socialist!
You don't care how the crown wastes your money?
But wait, you are a retired crown worker who depended and still depends upon plundered wealth.
I always thought it was a waste of money for anyone dependent upon plundered wealth to pay taxes.
casualjoe
4 / 5 (4) Sep 21, 2014
"Being environmentally conscious is not about accepting second best but allowing us to do more with less" - James Dyson
runrig
5 / 5 (6) Sep 21, 2014
I don't give flying f**^ about your taxes ... or mine,

What a good socialist!
You don't care how the crown wastes your money?
But wait, you are a retired crown worker who depended and still depends upon plundered wealth.
I always thought it was a waste of money for anyone dependent upon plundered wealth to pay taxes.

Talk about the science ryggy... You don't get me into a pub argument about politics - my view is as valid as yours and anyone else's. Science is NOT about views. This is a science site and I'm f##** fed up of your selfish, mankind hating worldview.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Sep 21, 2014
my view is as valid as yours and anyone else's.

No, it's not.
I can apply science and unlike the Marxists, (as Popper described) observe that top down, centrally planned systems fail.
Socialists who claim to like science refuse to apply science to the human eco-system, unless it can be used to support increasing the size and scope of the state to control the lives of others.
Returners
1 / 5 (6) Sep 21, 2014
Most of the global oceans were much warmer than average last month, Crouch said.


Yet Arctic Sea Ice area, volume, and thickness experienced a significant recovery.

Global sea ice area is in the upper third of the modern data set, and has consistent been from average to 1 deviation or so above average for the entire year.

antarctic sea ice volume is believed to be decreasing, but that is not well understood.

Point is it doesn't make sense that "temperatures" were warmer than ever, yet ice recovered.

Do you know what the heat of fusion of water is compared to temperature change? It's 78 times higher than the specific heat capacity of liquid water.

This means freezing 1 cubic kilometer of water from liquid at 0C to solid at 0C is equivalent to cooling 78 cubic kilomters of liquid water by 1C.

I predicted enhanced warming for this year two years ago, but I did not expect the ice to recover so strongly (actually I prayed for that, but didn't expect it).
MandoZink
5 / 5 (6) Sep 22, 2014
Yet Arctic Sea Ice area, volume, and thickness experienced a significant recovery.

Yes, absolutely it has recovered. The Arctic ice experiences these recovery blips while on a slowly increasinging nosedive. It is been called "The Neverending Recovery".

As illustrated here:
http://static.ske..._500.gif

The obvious true long-term trend in Arctic sea ice extent is that it is declining at an accelerating rate.
runrig
5 / 5 (5) Sep 22, 2014
Point is it doesn't make sense that "temperatures" were warmer than ever, yet ice recovered

Really??
In the energy budget of the Earth, the energy used in your Arctic ice 'recovery' is not even measurable. And your 'recovery' was NOT significant. A return to a falling trend line after several years of 3sd's of low ice is merely statistically certain.
Consider that Arctic temps are nowhere near properly represented in the global averaging data set also.
runrig
5 / 5 (5) Sep 22, 2014
my view is as valid as yours and anyone else's.

No, it's not.

??????
You really take the biscuit, or as you would say, I suppose, the cookie.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
In El Nino years, the pacific ocean heat gets pushed to the east, off the coast of mexico and S. America, instead of circling the ocean and warming the northern pacific.

The shear destroys hurricanes in the Atlantic, preventing heat transport to the poles.

Ice area recovery is good, as that means an increased Albedo, which may mean a slight self-reinforced cooling effect will temporarily slow the warming trend.

Still, initially expect next year to be hot too, I should think, but I'd have to look back over my data. As I recall, there was supposed to be one or two let-down years, and then it would heat back up again.

The stupid thing is, I was doing some "housecleaning" on my computer the other day, and I think I deleted the last copy of my data projections by accident, which pisses me off if I can't find another copy.

I can alwasy re-do the projection, it's not that big of a deal, but it's just the idea that bothers me.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
Yes, absolutely it has recovered. The Arctic ice experiences these recovery blips while on a slowly increasinging nosedive. It is been called "The Neverending Recovery".

As illustrated here:
http://static.ske..._500.gif

The obvious true long-term trend in Arctic sea ice extent is that it is declining at an accelerating rate.


Unlike some people, I am moderate on this issue, and I can read a trend line.

You better hope this is a recovery or change in the trend, because if the exponential trend curve from two years ago were correct the melt rate in the arctic (and greenland) would be a lot worse over the next century than even the IPCC has stated.

Two solid rebound years may be nothing but a blip, as you say, like 2008 and 2009, or it may be the beginning of an inflection point, a trend changed.

I don't think it's fair to claim that it definitely isn't.

I am hoping the ice will be enough to seed an increase in albedo.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
my view is as valid as yours and anyone else's.

No, it's not.
I can apply science and unlike the Marxists, (as Popper described) observe that top down, centrally planned systems fail.
Socialists who claim to like science refuse to apply science to the human eco-system, unless it can be used to support increasing the size and scope of the state to control the lives of others.


Rome persisted for over 400 years as a world power, and was a true republic for much of it's history, and a dictatorship for other parts of it's history. There was no popular vote, and even if there was at times, it was ultimately up to the Senate. When a senator died or was removed from office, they were replaced by the majority vote of the surviving senators.

The senate had all legislative, executive, and judicial power, except during the times that the Caesars were appointed, then they gave up executive power to the Caesar, but it was supposed to be at the senates discretion even then.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
In comparison, the United States has been an independent nation for about half the time that Rome was the dominant world power.

Now I'd say Rome was Imperialistic, definitely, "Capitalistic" definitely, and they were slavers. A third of their population were slaves, because that is how capitalism works. The wealthy live at the abuse of the less fortunate. The only difference is in the modern world Slavery is banned. But it took nearly 100 years after the Declaration of independence claimed "All men are created equal", before the U.S. abolished the 3/5 compromise and abolished "Involuntary Servitude except as punishment for a crime."

In practice, "involuntary servitude" even as punishment for a crime has been effectively banned, because white jackass prison wardens were abusing the law to effect slave labor anyway, which is why you no longer see "chain gangs".

Rygg:

You don't want true capitalism. You just think you do because you don't THINK IT THROUGH.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
However, what made Rome last so long was the strong government.

Modern "Republicans" want a "weak" government, but what they really mean by that is not that they want a powerless government, after all, Republicans want military, gotta be somewhere, killing someone all the time, it seems.

They want the government to allow corporations and wealthy individuals to do anything they damn well please at the expense of others. We have the period from the mid-1800's to early 1900's when monopolies were completely out of control to show what that leads to: massacre of impoverished people asking for a raise.

At the rate Google and Amazon have grown, it is only a matter of time before a corporation replaces the Government. Already, the federal government uses Google Maps for it's non-military applications, and colleges use Google email as their default email server and search engine.

They make so much money from search ads, they can make OS, browsers, and even devices for free.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Sep 22, 2014
Because Google had the audacity to launch their own mapping satellites, and drive around taking scores of pictures at every angle every 100 feet, compiling a comprehensive 3-d map of every street on the planet, accurate to +/- 1 centimeter.

When they get drones and air space laws determine flight levels and privacy restrictions, they'll do it from the air, at a flght level of a few hundred feet, and map everything more accurately than anyone has ever done before.

Very soon it won't matter though, because someone will be capable of building the fictional device Bruce Wayne made in "The Dark Knight" and track everything, and everyone, everywhere, through your cell phone.

It already has GPS, speakers, microphone, and from 1 to 2 cameras on it and 10 times the processing power and bandwidth needed to handle that type of data. Imagine how much spying Apple or Samsung could do if they really wanted to?
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (3) Sep 22, 2014
You don't want true capitalism. You just think you do because you don't THINK IT THROUGH.

Sure I do.
I have thought it through.

A third of their population were slaves, because that is how capitalism works. The wealthy live at the abuse of the less fortunate

This is not capitalism.
"All men are created equal", before the U.S. abolished the 3/5 compromise and abolished "Involuntary Servitude except as punishment for a crime."

You do understand that the 3/5 compromise aided the end of slavery?
Had slave been counted as 1 person, the slave states would have had more representatives in the House. Of course slaves couldn't vote, but their maters could.
This is the same reason the 'liberals'/socialists want more illegal immigrants into the US. They are used as 'slave' labor and are counted by the federal govt for aid money. The more people a state or city has that are poor, the more federal dollars are allocated for all sorts of programs.

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