A French architect campaigning for a new exploration of the 4,500-year-old Great Pyramid of Giza said on Thursday that the edifice may contain two chambers housing funereal furniture.
Jean-Pierre Houdin -- who was rebuffed three years ago by Egypt in his appeal for a probe into how the Pyramid was built -- said 3-D simulation and data from a US egyptologist, Bob Brier, pointed to two secret chambers in the heart of the structure.
The rooms would have housed furniture for use in the afterlife by the pharaoh Khufu, also known as Cheops in Greek, he told a press conference.
"I am convinced there are antechambers in this pyramid. What I want is to find them," he said.
In March 2007, Houdin advanced the theory that the Great Pyramid had been built inside-out using an internal spiral ramp, as opposed to an external ramp as had long been suggested.
He proposed mounting a joint expedition of Egyptian antiquities experts and French engineers, using infrared, radar and other non-invasive methods to check out the hypothesis.
The idea was nixed by Egypt's antiquities department. A Canadian team from Laval University in Quebec will seek permission this year to carry out thermal imaging from outside the Pyramid to explore the theory, Houdin said.
Houdin said a pointer to the antechambers came from the existence of such rooms in the pyramid of Snefru, Khufu's father. It was possible a similar design was retained for the Great Pyramid.
In addition, blocks in the northern wall of the king's chamber in the Great Pyramid indicate an overlooked passage which led to the hypothesised chambers and also enabled the funeral party to exit, he added.
Explore further:
Egypt to open inner chambers of 'bent' pyramid
R_R
Giza 2450 BC at 30 degrees north latitude (kings chamber)and also Giza 10500 BC at 16 degrees north latitude (queens chamber). Get it? There was no ice age, there was the hudsonbay pole. Best
thefoolonline
thefoolonline
apex01
sstritt
jjoensuu
Is it? Then would it have been some attempt to mark the center of the world?
Anyway it is probably only the Cheops pyramid that is from some pre-Egyptian era. The other ones are just copies made in attempt to mimic the large one.
sstritt
The step pyramid of djoser predates the great pyramid and demonstrates a more primitive architectural form, which is itself predated by the mud brick mastabas at Saqqara. The Egyptians were the first megabuilders- no need to invoke Eric von Daniken and his ilk.
Caliban
The Great Pyramid has only been dated anecdotally. Since there was no mortar used in its construction, there is no organic material avilable in situ to accurately date the time of its construction.
It is only assumed to have been built last, since it appears to be the most perfectly realized version of the pyramidal concept.
Caliban
htDELETEtp://egypt.musicfilmbroth.com/minishowcase/index.php
PS3
The Egyptians probably couldn't even case the great let alone build it. also just look at its people now they have no skill compared.
Bob_Kob
Moebius
I saw the show on this and his theory seems reasonable. You can see a spiral on the outside of the pyramid in the right light. Whether or not that means his theory is correct remains to be seen. I would love to have seen it when it was pristine.
Moebius
PS3
ha,the greatest building ever and the decedents cant even keep the casing stones intact.
Bob_Kob
PS3
I just wiki arithmetic and they say earliest is egyptian...gee wonder where they got that
bottom line is alien smart to complete stupid to where they cant even cut stone but steal from pryamid.
PS3
Bob_Kob
Blakut
baudrunner
TheMuskyBuck
Oh, what's that? You're not from that lineage? You're redneckishness is decidely European? Yay! Wow, you all managed to build...um ,.... geez...oh yeah, a ring of stones and call it Stonehenge.
Which your slobby decendents managed to save how much of?
As sad as it is to point out, that's about all your decendents could come up with.
Meanwhile entire cities of stone were being engineered all over the rest of the world...and your ancestors were still living in their own filth furnishing their caves.
TheMuskyBuck
R_R
chessdiesel
I am ASTOUNDED at how "ignorant" most commentors are about the Pyramids of Egypt.
Take a minute...OR perhaps a year or two....
to learn something about these structures BEFORE you make a FOOL of yourself with stupid comments about aliens and stars and mathematics....
For "whining-out-loud"...Did you EVER "study" anything?
DISGUSTED.
chessdiesel
baudrunner
sstritt
Plenty of organics- the buried wooden boats beside the pyramid discovered in the '50s also attributed to Khufu, the workers' village and graveyard...etc.
All confirm the established age of the pyramid.
sstritt
What do you expect when the so called "History Channel"
continually runs all that ancient UFO crap.
R_R
The great pyramid was constructed at the very beginning of the Egyptian civilization, we are told our first civilization. I have a hard time believing mankind went from hunting with small stones to suddenly positioning 70 ton stones high up in the great pyramid.
baudrunner
sstritt
R_R
Dr_Tom
Those of you who have realised the significance of their location are on the right track.
There is a great amount of information that is not applied to universities that have an agenda of training workers for the"System".
Grid science is a sequestered issue due to the ramifications of general society knowing how to effect the system.
Someone with "Grid Knowledge" such as myself could kill the whole eco-system in just a couple of days,so you can imagine a terrorist group with information.
Pyramids are Grid instruments from long ago,and if you "Check" Cheops carefully and it "Rings" in the key of "A",it also has a high "Ozone" signature and Things mummify because bacteria cannot exist there if they are "Certain" species.
Even the step pyramids are built purposely to "Direct" amplified energy into a "Node"
So,go back to sleep now.
Caliban
No, these items of which you speak are merely assumed to be coeval, due to proximity. While it may be so, it also may not be so.
frajo
Superstition is not scientific as it lacks falsifiability.
Skeptic_Heretic
Try looking on the continental shelf. You'll see former megaliths scattered throughout the area.
Jean-Pierre Houdin has one of the best potential reconstruction methods for the pyramid. He overcame most of the more confusing problems with building the structure.
Taking the basic assumption that empire building was a matter of architecture, and simple machines could greatly assist with the harder protions of the manual labor, he developed a method of building the pyramid that involved a track system, pulley systems, and displayed a rather mechanical methodology of structuring the building. (cont)
Skeptic_Heretic
If you're interested in it, I'd recommend you pick up his book.
Khufu: The Secrets Behind the Building of the Great Pyramid
R_R
Dr_Tom
"Mountains" with shale at the upper portions of the highway going through "Not just Missouri" are very close to exactly 3 miles from bottom of the hill to the next bottom of the hill.
Do your work before belief in anyones theory.
I am the grid scientist here,and we understand how all of the hills and lakes were formed,and it is definitely not what your tier 3 geology prof says.
PYRAMIDS ARE GRID INSTRUMENTS
Ethelred
I see your second is more clear that you were not talking about Houdin.
My spell check is ignorant. It wants to replace Houdin with Houdini. Houdini means Houdin like or at least Houdini claimed that was his reason for his name change.
Ethelred
Ethelred
Ethelred
Ethelred
Bullshit. It was HUNDREDS of years later.
So do I and ANYONE with a clue about REAL history as they didn't do that you simply made it up. The steps in the Egyptian engineering has already been pointed out to you but, like EVERY Crank, you simply ignored it.
Ethelred
RobertT
Documentary by Jean Pierre himself!
enjoy!
sherriffwoody
Moebius
His theory is reasonable. An external ramp would have to be built, an internal one wouldn't. You do realize the internal one is at the outside perimeter, not in the middle and would be open during construction for light and would be closed last possibly causing the spirals on the outside. There would be no bottleneck and hydraulics (huh?) no more necessary than any other theorized ramp. The worst part would be making the turns at the corners. I think you are criticizing this theory without knowing anything about it.
Caliban
There are no contemporaneous accounts, pictorially, relief-wise, or on papyri that speak of the construction of the pyramid, and placing it as having happened at this time. Which is, in itself, more than passing strange, given the scope of the project, and the demands it must have made upon the body politic at the time, and still making no mention of its purpose, which must have been of SUPREME interest to the citizens of the Egypt-Of-That-Time. And still -no records.
None.
To the contrary, all the evidence has _been_taken_ as_, or _interpreted_ as such. As for the construction methods--they remain to be established, as does the purpose and internal construction of the Great Pyramid.
Caliban
httpDEL://www.astrosurf.com/sguisard/Pagim/Tikal1.html#Picture5
frajo
sstritt
Do a google image search for "sarcophagus of khufu" and you will see plenty of evidence. There is a massive red granite tomb in the king's chamber. It was placed there during construction, as it is too big to have been moved through the hallways leading there.
Caliban
It doesn't, but it plainly indicates that the assumed date is just that, and does not have a factual, provable basis. This in turn allows for considerable latitude of interpretation, and the consideration of other theories to try to incorporate the facts as they lay.
Bottom line is, if the theory is not supported, empirically, by the facts, then it pretty much has to be rejected, no?
And, I believe, even more so, when the "facts" have been deliberately distorted in order to make them support the theory.
Caliban
(Just to clarify)
Again, a presumption.
A box with a lid on it, entirely devoid of any slightest presence of funerary remains.
Therefore the questions: was it a coffin? Is the Great Pyramid a tomb?
All of the chambers, passageways, and shafts were constructed in situ, as the pyramid was being built. Perforce, anything bigger than the dimensions of the passageways had to be implaced at the same time.
Ethelred
It is reasonable to assume that humans made it. It is reasonable to assume they had a reason for building it. It is reasonable to assume since the earliest pyramid, the Step Pyramid, looks like it was based on Mastabas, which were tombs, that the Pyramids were tombs.
It is odd that there are not wall painting. But it could be that the Egyptians had a period where they thought such a thing was a bad idea.
More
Ethelred
By the way there is little similarity between the American pyramids and the Egyptian pyramids besides having four sloping sides that sorta meet at the top. The American pyramids do NOT meet at the top as they have a sacrificial altar there. The Egyptian pyramids were clearly made as a single project each and the American pyramids are a set of shells built over previous pyramids over many generations.
Ethelred
frajo
Your extraterrestrials are non-falsifiable, made-up stuff. Nearly every comment postulating aliens on earth is fived by you
sstritt
From this site: http:DELETE//www.guardians.net/egypt/pyramids/GreatPyramid.htm
Caliban
"Sarcophagus" has no lid, corner missing. Why would a sarcophagus be without lid or mummy?
Agreed that sarcophagus had to be placed during construction.
I did not say that aliens constructed the Pyramid.
Although the fact remains that its construction method is unknown. I don't dispute that it was built by human hands.
As to similarity between GP and the step pyramid and mastabas- there is none beyond the general shape, and there is no hard evidence to support that the minor, or proto pyramids were built PRIOR to the Great Pyramid, and it's associated complex.
I propose no link between the GP -or any of the other Egyptian pyramids- and pyramids elsewhere in the world, but I have to admit that it appears obvious to me, at least, that such a link is very likely to exist. Additionally, if you really want to understand why simple lever/roller construction methods seem suspect, do a search for PUMA PUNCU sometime. Simply impossible.
cont
Caliban
The lack of decoration of any kind in the GP is not just striking, it is an essential fact. Virtually every other monument or building in the sacred or pharaonic traditions of Egypt is lavishly decorated, with inscriptions, carved inscriptions, bas- relief, painting, et c., most of it explicitly stating the who, what, when, and why of the installation.
Yet, all of this is omitted in the case of the GP. Highly doubtful that it would be an error or intentional oversight.
Again, I'll state that all the evidence used to support the claim of construction c. 3200 is circumstantial. Furthermore, there is evidence of tampering in at least one critical instance -that of the name "khufu" supposedly left by the "builders" in the top of the relieving chamber.
To date, I am not aware of any direct, written, incontrovertible,match between the work crews' and supervisor names found in the "workmen's camp" and any of those left as quarry marks on the GP's building stones.
cont
Caliban
These investigations, ongoing for prety much the last 200 years, have been fraught with controversy, one-upsmanship, chicanery, fraud, and theft for the entire time, and many people's careers have depended entirely upon the sucess of their being able to advance a plausible theory of one type or another regarding the origins and purposes of this monumental architecture, as well as their architects and builders. It has been, and remains, a high-stakes game in the international Archaeology field, until recently, since Zahi Hawass has arisen to assume the mantle of Guardian of Egyptian antiquities.
One method that could have SUMMARILY put to rest the question of the GP's age is yet to be attempted, since Hawass has refused to grant permission for the process to proceed.
contd
Caliban
That being, the retrieval and (carbon)dating of a piece of wooden rod, resting inside one of the "airshafts" that were built from the Queen's chamber, but sealed off from it(one presumes) by a final course of masonry.
Search for "the Upuat Project" to get up to date, if you aren't already, and then ask yourself why Hawass has refused to let Gantenbrink send another robot to further explore these shafts, their terminal DOORS, and, to put to rest the date of construction, by retrieving and analysing that piece of wooden rod located well back within one of the shafts, around a corner, and presumably left there by ONE OF ITS BUILDERS.
That the Giza complex served some complicated metafunction comprising elements of religion, statecraft, and astronomy seems certain. Exactly when it was built is not.
Hopefully, research will go forward until its whole purpose and construction, both above and below ground, and the identities of its builders are known and understood.
frajo
Caliban
Agreed.
I'm talking about NOT distorting the facts to fit a pre-concieved notion. The actual truth may be different(or not) but that doesn't mean that it is, therefore, ok to fabricate it.
Ethelred
More
Ethelred
More
Ethelred
More
Ethelred
More
Ethelred
Yes. Building a tomb.
Really big tombs impress the hell out the peasants. There is no actual evidence that astronomy was involved except to get things aligned on right angles. The one attempt to patch astronomy into it involved distortion and an upside down star map which they carefully forgot to mention was upside down for no reason except to generate a fit that wasn't there.
Ethelred
TheGhostofOtto1923
http
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
And I do solumnly testify that if this story is made up, it was not made up by me.
sstritt
Damn good story. Would be most ironic if the Muslims have been revering the sarcophagus of an idolatrous self proclaimed god for the last 1200 yrs!
TheGhostofOtto1923
Or perhaps the evolution of a one seminal Religion, symbolized by abram/Abrahams travel from Ur to Egypt and then to the middle east. These religions share much too much not to believe that maybe they are all the same Thing? We've got a huge obelisk in DC dedicated to the founding freemason, George W.
sstritt
I think those were moved there during Roman times. By the time the cathedrals were built, probably all memory of Egypt was gone in the West. In any case, Christianity has never had the same fierce hatred of idolatry as the Muslims. Remember what the Taliban did to the ancient Buddhist temple in Afghanistan? Makes you wonder what would happen if radicals gain control in Egypt!
TheGhostofOtto1923
Knowledge which disappears from the general pop might still be retained by an informed Priesthood. One of the obelisks was buried for safekeeping along with statues of Apollo, hercules the superhero godman, model for Jesus, and others, before Rome was sacked. The church seemed to know just where to look for these artifacts some 500 years later. They sit in the Vatican museum today.
Seems to me that erecting a pagan obelisk in front of a Xian church would be the same as putting a golden calf there, even with their little reliquaries on top. These are in front of the 2 most important churches in xiandom- st peters and the popes personal basilica, st John Lateran.
There was a Moslem expedition some centuries ago to dismantle one of the pyramids... They gave up after 9 mos.
sstritt
Old Arab proverb: All things fear Time, but Time fears the Pyramids
frajo
While proselytizing Northern Europe fighters for Christianity not only used to engage in mass killings of unwilling pagans but also systematically built their churches above the ruins and on the premises of pagan worship sites. Most pagan objects and sources are lost due to their systematical destruction over the centuries. (Source: Wikipedia)
sstritt
Of course you're right. I was thinking of the more recent past, and specifically of the Muslim ban on art, music, statuary, etc. The thought of them revering a Pharaonic burial stone struck me as particularly ironic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
Skeptic_Heretic
frajo
More info on Wikipedia's "Islamic culture" entry.
Caliban
Ok, I won't argue, and I understand the usefulness of a pragmatic approach--I was merely trying to make the point that that the chronology and interpretation of the evidence leave more than a little room for a slightly or even substantially different interpretaiton.
Two asides:
1. I liked the Stross reference.
2. Let's not forget that the Romans had access to muchly advanced engineering and materials.