Great Pyramid has two secret chambers: French architect

Perhaps the Great Pyramid was not a tomb, but a great marker of time and place, or rather two times and places, which can be very accurately done by marking the meridian crossing of two stars (Alpha Draconis and Zeta Orionis)at two diferent epochs.

Giza 2450 BC at 30 degrees north latitude (kings chamber)and also Giza 10500 BC at 16 degrees north latitude (queens chamber). Get it? There was no ice age, there was the hudsonbay pole. Best

Why do these people insist the pyramid was built as a tomb when all other real tombs have writing or some other things on the walls. might there not be something other than furniture in these rooms.

I never said I believe it to be a tomb.What its purpose was is unknown since I think its much older than we believe it to be.

I think it's odd that the pyramids lay on the longest point of latitude and longitude in the world.

The story is about the great pyramid of Khufu- so why the picture of Khafre?

I think it's odd that the pyramids lay on the longest point of latitude and longitude in the world.

Is it? Then would it have been some attempt to mark the center of the world?

Anyway it is probably only the Cheops pyramid that is from some pre-Egyptian era. The other ones are just copies made in attempt to mimic the large one.

Anyway it is probably only the Cheops pyramid that is from some pre-Egyptian era.

The step pyramid of djoser predates the great pyramid and demonstrates a more primitive architectural form, which is itself predated by the mud brick mastabas at Saqqara. The Egyptians were the first megabuilders- no need to invoke Eric von Daniken and his ilk.

Anyway it is probably only the Cheops pyramid that is from some pre-Egyptian era.

The step pyramid of djoser predates the great pyramid and demonstrates a more primitive architectural form, which is itself predated by the mud brick mastabas at Saqqara. The Egyptians were the first megabuilders- no need to invoke Eric von Daniken and his ilk.

The Great Pyramid has only been dated anecdotally. Since there was no mortar used in its construction, there is no organic material avilable in situ to accurately date the time of its construction.

It is only assumed to have been built last, since it appears to be the most perfectly realized version of the pyramidal concept.

If you have any feeling for the simple beauty of the Great Pyramid and its environs, this site is well worth a look:

htDELETEtp://egypt.musicfilmbroth.com/minishowcase/index.php

A superior race built the great pyramid not the Egyptians.

The Egyptians probably couldn't even case the great let alone build it. also just look at its people now they have no skill compared.

I bet those egyptians were smarter than you PS3

In March 2007, Houdin advanced the theory that the Great Pyramid had been built inside-out using an internal spiral ramp, as opposed to an external ramp as had long been suggested.

I saw the show on this and his theory seems reasonable. You can see a spiral on the outside of the pyramid in the right light. Whether or not that means his theory is correct remains to be seen. I would love to have seen it when it was pristine.

In my opinion a spiral visible on the outside of the pyramid would not be an artifact of any external source, like external spiral ramps, but an artifact of its construction. Spiral ramps on the outside would not have caused the construction to proceed spirally, neither would the long straight ramp. An internal spiral as Houdin theorizes could cause this because the ramps were open during construction so they could see and filled in later which could cause the visible spiral by a slight difference in the stones used at the end of the build cycle when the ramps were filled in, probably from the top down.

I bet those egyptians were smarter than you PS3

ha,the greatest building ever and the decedents cant even keep the casing stones intact.

So you're saying that since present day they can't maintain the structure that they never could? What a stupid statement. Its like saying arabs never invented arithmetic since today they're all just bombing everything in the middle east...

So you're saying that since present day they can't maintain the structure that they never could? What a stupid statement. Its like saying arabs never invented arithmetic since today they're all just bombing everything in the middle east...

I just wiki arithmetic and they say earliest is egyptian...gee wonder where they got that

bottom line is alien smart to complete stupid to where they cant even cut stone but steal from pryamid.

maybe the smart guys used the egyptians as slaves then left and did the same with the maya and thats why they are similar but far away and descendants never succeeded like the norm would.

Bottom line is from humans inventing computers smart to humans completely stupid as PS3 who can't even use proper spelling.

So that's where they keep the aliens, in the secret chamber of Elvis and JFK...

The Giza pyramids and the impressive stone foundation on which the Roman temple of Jupiter was constructed at Baalbek in Lebanon were built to last for perpetuity for a reason. It is evidence of a great era in cosmic history, and the messages of that era are literally "written on the walls". There was a time long ago in history when interstellar travel peaked in this part of the cosmos. The technology needed to build those artifacts are extraterrestrial in origin. There can be no doubt. Those extraterrestrials were the "gods", the sons of whom had intercourse with the daughters of men (2nd paragraph, The Flood and the Tower of Babel, King James version), and who were the progenitors of the likes of Abraham, who was a descendent.

@PS3, you mean 'your' decendents you goof. You're so stupidly racist your brain suffers idiot shortsightedness. This stuff is thousands of years old.

Oh, what's that? You're not from that lineage? You're redneckishness is decidely European? Yay! Wow, you all managed to build...um ,.... geez...oh yeah, a ring of stones and call it Stonehenge.

Which your slobby decendents managed to save how much of?

As sad as it is to point out, that's about all your decendents could come up with.

Meanwhile entire cities of stone were being engineered all over the rest of the world...and your ancestors were still living in their own filth furnishing their caves.

Just for the record I'm caucasian. I didn't want my reply to that moron PS3 be considered to be anything but objective.

The high degree of architectual and engineering standards that were used to build the great pyramid were required in order to show a precise mathematical representation of the Earth's Northern Hemisphere. This squaring the circle can be easily verified, add the lenght of the four sides and use the resulting sum as the circumferece of our imajined half shpere C=2(pi)R, the radius worked out equals the exact hieght of the pyramid. Calculations such as these are beyond coincidence.

Having read a GREAT MANY of the "Comments"......
I am ASTOUNDED at how "ignorant" most commentors are about the Pyramids of Egypt.
Take a minute...OR perhaps a year or two....
to learn something about these structures BEFORE you make a FOOL of yourself with stupid comments about aliens and stars and mathematics....
For "whining-out-loud"...Did you EVER "study" anything?

DISGUSTED.
chessdiesel

Everyone: Read "The Legends of the Gods" and "There Were Giants Upon the Earth". Search Amazon. The first book is a great read, about what the Egyptian hieroglyphs actually are telling us. The second is the result of 60 years of interpreting ancient documents by a master of the art. The evidence is overwhelming that "divinities" are really visitors from other worlds. I mean, place yourself in the mind of an ancient human being. You have no concept of planets and stars, or space. The world is the center of everything, and the sky just a tapestry. Anything coming from the heavens must be of "divine" origin. That was the basis for the development of religion.

The Great Pyramid has only been dated anecdotally. Since there was no mortar used in its construction, there is no organic material avilable in situ to accurately date the time of its construction.

Plenty of organics- the buried wooden boats beside the pyramid discovered in the '50s also attributed to Khufu, the workers' village and graveyard...etc.
All confirm the established age of the pyramid.

I am ASTOUNDED at how "ignorant" most commentors are about the Pyramids of Egypt.

What do you expect when the so called "History Channel"
continually runs all that ancient UFO crap.

Geographically the great pyramid is located one third the distance from the equater to the north pole. A very important point that has been overlooked is the significance of the location of the kings chamber, a great amount of attention was given to the precise placement of the chamber so that it would be one third the distance from the pyramids base to the top of the capstone.

The great pyramid was constructed at the very beginning of the Egyptian civilization, we are told our first civilization. I have a hard time believing mankind went from hunting with small stones to suddenly positioning 70 ton stones high up in the great pyramid.

Incidentally, those hieroglyphs on the temple walls talk about very little else but those extraterrestrials, in their "ships of millions of years". The message is obvious. They knew that someday far into the future we would be reading those messages. Those pyramids are *supposed* to last for thousands of years. Those Baalbek stones are *supposed* to be impossible to move by any Earthly civilisation for thousands of years.

Go ahead and believe in your little ancient aliens theory and your pole shifting theory and Atlantis and whatever else you feel the need to believe in. However, it is intellectual laziness to ascribe every unanswered mystery from our past to extraterrestrials or time travelers. Moreover, it is akin to cultural vandalism to dismiss the amazing achievements of our ancestors. I am sure that a millennium from now, our descendants will discover the Apollo landers and conclude that aliens put them there.

And you stay trapped in your fantasy awaiting the ice sheets return.

Pyramids are "Grid Instruments", never tombs,except those travelers that found them "Handy" long ago.
Those of you who have realised the significance of their location are on the right track.
There is a great amount of information that is not applied to universities that have an agenda of training workers for the"System".
Grid science is a sequestered issue due to the ramifications of general society knowing how to effect the system.
Someone with "Grid Knowledge" such as myself could kill the whole eco-system in just a couple of days,so you can imagine a terrorist group with information.
Pyramids are Grid instruments from long ago,and if you "Check" Cheops carefully and it "Rings" in the key of "A",it also has a high "Ozone" signature and Things mummify because bacteria cannot exist there if they are "Certain" species.
Even the step pyramids are built purposely to "Direct" amplified energy into a "Node"
So,go back to sleep now.

The Great Pyramid has only been dated anecdotally. Since there was no mortar used in its construction, there is no organic material avilable in situ to accurately date the time of its construction.

Plenty of organics- the buried wooden boats beside the pyramid discovered in the '50s also attributed to Khufu, the workers' village and graveyard...etc.
All confirm the established age of the pyramid.

No, these items of which you speak are merely assumed to be coeval, due to proximity. While it may be so, it also may not be so.

The Great Pyramid has only been dated anecdotally. Since there was no mortar used in its construction, there is no organic material avilable in situ to accurately date the time of its construction.

Plenty of organics- the buried wooden boats beside the pyramid discovered in the '50s also attributed to Khufu, the workers' village and graveyard...etc.
All confirm the established age of the pyramid.

No, these items of which you speak are merely assumed to be coeval, due to proximity.

Of course, it is an assumption - a very reasonable one.

While it may be so, it also may not be so.

Only if one rejects the reasonable assumption in favour of superstition.
Superstition is not scientific as it lacks falsifiability.

I wondered how long it would take for the conspiracy theorists to hop on this thread.

The great pyramid was constructed at the very beginning of the Egyptian civilization, we are told our first civilization. I have a hard time believing mankind went from hunting with small stones to suddenly positioning 70 ton stones high up in the great pyramid.

Try looking on the continental shelf. You'll see former megaliths scattered throughout the area.

Jean-Pierre Houdin has one of the best potential reconstruction methods for the pyramid. He overcame most of the more confusing problems with building the structure.

Taking the basic assumption that empire building was a matter of architecture, and simple machines could greatly assist with the harder protions of the manual labor, he developed a method of building the pyramid that involved a track system, pulley systems, and displayed a rather mechanical methodology of structuring the building. (cont)

Then there's the observational evidence that assists his hypothesis. For example, the color difference of the pyramid when hit by direct sunlight on a face, one can see a set of discolored lines that follow the supposed Houdin ramp. The structure of the corner blocks supports his hypothesis, the "portal shafts" support the hypothesis, and under his methodology the pyramids could potentially be built rather quickly, over potentially 2 or 3 decades, with a work team of under 100,000.

If you're interested in it, I'd recommend you pick up his book.
Khufu: The Secrets Behind the Building of the Great Pyramid

One other important fact that the establishment and thier puppets wish you to believe is just coincidence is the timing of the start of the Egyptian civilization with a very large impact in the Indian ocean (Burkle crater). Both occured around 3100 BC. Tsunamis relocated ocean floor up onto the island of Madagascar in chevrons over 600 ft high and would have obliterated all indian ocean shorelines. Advanced civilization in Egypt did not start, it relocated, and it was clear to the survivors that the storys of thier ancesters pole shifting impact of 10500 BC were true. Thus began the Great Pyramid. Good Luck

Madagascar Chevrons 600 high were not from a tsunami,that "Theory" cannot hold up when you look educationally at the rest of the mountains ,hills trenches and especially concentrate on the "Very concentric ocean floor mountains"
"Mountains" with shale at the upper portions of the highway going through "Not just Missouri" are very close to exactly 3 miles from bottom of the hill to the next bottom of the hill.
Do your work before belief in anyones theory.
I am the grid scientist here,and we understand how all of the hills and lakes were formed,and it is definitely not what your tier 3 geology prof says.
PYRAMIDS ARE GRID INSTRUMENTS

I saw the show on this and his theory seems reasonable. You can see a spiral on the outside of the pyramid in the right light.

HIS theory seems to be the one with an INTERNAL spiral which is silly. It would be a bottleneck of the worst kind. It is a STUPID idea UNLESS he can show a great tunnel in the side and a canal going in and then out and show they used hydraulics and on and on and on with engineering there is no indication they had.

I see your second is more clear that you were not talking about Houdin.

My spell check is ignorant. It wants to replace Houdin with Houdini. Houdini means Houdin like or at least Houdini claimed that was his reason for his name change.

Ethelred

OK so maybe Houdin has a reasonable method. But I wouldn't call that internal if the outside is built afterwards. That does remove the bottleneck I was seeing.

Ethelred

the radius worked out equals the exact hieght of the pyramid. Calculations such as these are beyond coincidence.

True, it isn't coincedence. It is a consequence of using a WHEEL to measure distances. The use of a wheel makes things multiple of PI. Wheels are a VERY standard way to measure distance, still done today when actual surveying standards aren't needed.

The great pyramid was constructed at the very beginning of the Egyptian civilization, we are told our first civilization.

Bullshit. It was HUNDREDS of years later.

have a hard time believing mankind went from hunting with small stones to suddenly positioning 70 ton stones high up in the great pyramid.

So do I and ANYONE with a clue about REAL history as they didn't do that you simply made it up. The steps in the Egyptian engineering has already been pointed out to you but, like EVERY Crank, you simply ignored it.

Ethelred

www. youtube. com/watch?v=W6xjcKaTSW8&feature=related

Documentary by Jean Pierre himself!

enjoy!

let the exploration go ahead, but with totally open and unopinionated views. Let evidence be tested with all the leatest technology. Lets see some unbiased reviews. I myself believe I have read enough to know there will be no burial furniture anywhere in the pyramids as they have yet to have any evidence of being used in tombs in the first place. and according to independant tests the tools used in construction date well before the 4500 year ago time span for the first parts of the pyramid that were built. But oh no, they did fit the model so they must be in error

I saw the show on this and his theory seems reasonable. You can see a spiral on the outside of the pyramid in the right light.

HIS theory seems to be the one with an INTERNAL spiral which is silly. It would be a bottleneck of the worst kind. It is a STUPID idea UNLESS he can show a great tunnel in the side and a canal going in and then out and show they used hydraulics and on and on and on with engineering there is no indication they had. ..Ethelred

His theory is reasonable. An external ramp would have to be built, an internal one wouldn't. You do realize the internal one is at the outside perimeter, not in the middle and would be open during construction for light and would be closed last possibly causing the spirals on the outside. There would be no bottleneck and hydraulics (huh?) no more necessary than any other theorized ramp. The worst part would be making the turns at the corners. I think you are criticizing this theory without knowing anything about it.

Again, though, it must be remembered that any and all "evidence" placing the construction of the Great Pyramid c. 4500 BP is strictly anecdotal or proximal, at the very best.

There are no contemporaneous accounts, pictorially, relief-wise, or on papyri that speak of the construction of the pyramid, and placing it as having happened at this time. Which is, in itself, more than passing strange, given the scope of the project, and the demands it must have made upon the body politic at the time, and still making no mention of its purpose, which must have been of SUPREME interest to the citizens of the Egypt-Of-That-Time. And still -no records.

None.

To the contrary, all the evidence has _been_taken_ as_, or _interpreted_ as such. As for the construction methods--they remain to be established, as does the purpose and internal construction of the Great Pyramid.

Here's a nice, related bit:

httpDEL://www.astrosurf.com/sguisard/Pagim/Tikal1.html#Picture5

any and all "evidence" placing the construction of the Great Pyramid c. 4500 BP is strictly anecdotal or proximal, at the very best.

How does this consideration differ from the considerations for other dates of construction?

I myself believe I have read enough to know there will be no burial furniture anywhere in the pyramids as they have yet to have any evidence of being used in tombs in the first place.

Do a google image search for "sarcophagus of khufu" and you will see plenty of evidence. There is a massive red granite tomb in the king's chamber. It was placed there during construction, as it is too big to have been moved through the hallways leading there.

any and all "evidence" placing the construction of the Great Pyramid c. 4500 BP is strictly anecdotal or proximal, at the very best.

How does this consideration differ from the considerations for other dates of construction?

It doesn't, but it plainly indicates that the assumed date is just that, and does not have a factual, provable basis. This in turn allows for considerable latitude of interpretation, and the consideration of other theories to try to incorporate the facts as they lay.

Bottom line is, if the theory is not supported, empirically, by the facts, then it pretty much has to be rejected, no?

And, I believe, even more so, when the "facts" have been deliberately distorted in order to make them support the theory.

I myself believe I have read enough to know there will be no burial furniture anywhere in the pyramids as they have yet to have any evidence of being used in tombs in the first place.

Do a google image search for "sarcophagus of khufu" and you will see plenty of evidence. There is a massive red granite tomb in the king's chamber. It was placed there during construction, as it is too big to have been moved through the hallways leading there.

(Just to clarify)

Again, a presumption.

A box with a lid on it, entirely devoid of any slightest presence of funerary remains.

Therefore the questions: was it a coffin? Is the Great Pyramid a tomb?

All of the chambers, passageways, and shafts were constructed in situ, as the pyramid was being built. Perforce, anything bigger than the dimensions of the passageways had to be implaced at the same time.

Again, a presumption.

A box with a lid on it, entirely devoid of any slightest presence of funerary remains.

A box with the shape of an outer sarcophagus. It is a reasonable assumption.

Perforce, anything bigger than the dimensions of the passageways had to be implaced at the same time.

Yes. Which means that a sarcophagus like box with a VERY heavy lid was planned to be there. What do you think it is if it isn't for a someone important. A lid to keep a Demon in a magic pyramid? Lets try reason. I know you have it in you. I have seen your posts on other topics.

It is reasonable to assume that humans made it. It is reasonable to assume they had a reason for building it. It is reasonable to assume since the earliest pyramid, the Step Pyramid, looks like it was based on Mastabas, which were tombs, that the Pyramids were tombs.

It is odd that there are not wall painting. But it could be that the Egyptians had a period where they thought such a thing was a bad idea.

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Now since you think the tools weren't from the right time period could you give a source, from someone rational, for why you think that and when you and the source think they were made?

By the way there is little similarity between the American pyramids and the Egyptian pyramids besides having four sloping sides that sorta meet at the top. The American pyramids do NOT meet at the top as they have a sacrificial altar there. The Egyptian pyramids were clearly made as a single project each and the American pyramids are a set of shells built over previous pyramids over many generations.

Ethelred

any and all "evidence" placing the construction of the Great Pyramid c. 4500 BP is strictly anecdotal or proximal, at the very best.

How does this consideration differ from the considerations for other dates of construction?

It doesn't, but it plainly indicates that the assumed date is just that,

Not just that. Additionally, it is the most reasonable one.

and does not have a factual, provable basis.

Not provable? That's too bold a claim to be true.

This in turn allows for considerable latitude of interpretation,

Not into the realm of non-falsifiable CTs.

and the consideration of other theories to try to incorporate the facts as they lay.

Theories are falsifiable.

Bottom line is, if the theory is not supported, empirically, by the facts, then it pretty much has to be rejected, no?

No. Falsifiability is the key.

Your extraterrestrials are non-falsifiable, made-up stuff. Nearly every comment postulating aliens on earth is fived by you

When blocks were cut at the various quarries they were organized and cataloged in order to prepare them for transportation to the site and final placement during assembly. The blocks were marked in red ink to fulfill this purpose and these markings would include the placements information and often also the name of the work-gang that would be directly working with the blocks. When the blocks were placed the markings were rubbed off of any surface that would be showing. Fortunately, they often did NOT remove these markings on surfaces which were not intended to be exposed. This has left us with some examples of these markings which can be seen on many sites. We will see many examples of these types of markings.

From this site: http:DELETE//www.guardians.net/egypt/pyramids/GreatPyramid.htm

@ethelred, frajo, sstritt

"Sarcophagus" has no lid, corner missing. Why would a sarcophagus be without lid or mummy?

Agreed that sarcophagus had to be placed during construction.

I did not say that aliens constructed the Pyramid.
Although the fact remains that its construction method is unknown. I don't dispute that it was built by human hands.

As to similarity between GP and the step pyramid and mastabas- there is none beyond the general shape, and there is no hard evidence to support that the minor, or proto pyramids were built PRIOR to the Great Pyramid, and it's associated complex.

I propose no link between the GP -or any of the other Egyptian pyramids- and pyramids elsewhere in the world, but I have to admit that it appears obvious to me, at least, that such a link is very likely to exist. Additionally, if you really want to understand why simple lever/roller construction methods seem suspect, do a search for PUMA PUNCU sometime. Simply impossible.

cont

contd

The lack of decoration of any kind in the GP is not just striking, it is an essential fact. Virtually every other monument or building in the sacred or pharaonic traditions of Egypt is lavishly decorated, with inscriptions, carved inscriptions, bas- relief, painting, et c., most of it explicitly stating the who, what, when, and why of the installation.
Yet, all of this is omitted in the case of the GP. Highly doubtful that it would be an error or intentional oversight.

Again, I'll state that all the evidence used to support the claim of construction c. 3200 is circumstantial. Furthermore, there is evidence of tampering in at least one critical instance -that of the name "khufu" supposedly left by the "builders" in the top of the relieving chamber.

To date, I am not aware of any direct, written, incontrovertible,match between the work crews' and supervisor names found in the "workmen's camp" and any of those left as quarry marks on the GP's building stones.
cont

No other archeological site in the world has undergone so much scrutiny for so ong a time, as the Giza complex especially, and the remainder of Egypt in general.

These investigations, ongoing for prety much the last 200 years, have been fraught with controversy, one-upsmanship, chicanery, fraud, and theft for the entire time, and many people's careers have depended entirely upon the sucess of their being able to advance a plausible theory of one type or another regarding the origins and purposes of this monumental architecture, as well as their architects and builders. It has been, and remains, a high-stakes game in the international Archaeology field, until recently, since Zahi Hawass has arisen to assume the mantle of Guardian of Egyptian antiquities.

One method that could have SUMMARILY put to rest the question of the GP's age is yet to be attempted, since Hawass has refused to grant permission for the process to proceed.

contd

contd

That being, the retrieval and (carbon)dating of a piece of wooden rod, resting inside one of the "airshafts" that were built from the Queen's chamber, but sealed off from it(one presumes) by a final course of masonry.

Search for "the Upuat Project" to get up to date, if you aren't already, and then ask yourself why Hawass has refused to let Gantenbrink send another robot to further explore these shafts, their terminal DOORS, and, to put to rest the date of construction, by retrieving and analysing that piece of wooden rod located well back within one of the shafts, around a corner, and presumably left there by ONE OF ITS BUILDERS.

That the Giza complex served some complicated metafunction comprising elements of religion, statecraft, and astronomy seems certain. Exactly when it was built is not.

Hopefully, research will go forward until its whole purpose and construction, both above and below ground, and the identities of its builders are known and understood.

Hopefully, research will go forward until its whole purpose and construction, both above and below ground, and the identities of its builders are known and understood.

I prefer demystifying explanations to mystifying presentiments. Maybe that's an effect of not growing up as a non-believer.

Hopefully, research will go forward until its whole purpose and construction, both above and below ground, and the identities of its builders are known and understood.

I prefer demystifying explanations to mystifying presentiments. Maybe that's an effect of not growing up as a non-believer.

Agreed.

I'm talking about NOT distorting the facts to fit a pre-concieved notion. The actual truth may be different(or not) but that doesn't mean that it is, therefore, ok to fabricate it.

"Sarcophagus" has no lid, corner missing. Why would a sarcophagus be without lid or mummy?

The sarcophagus was designed to have a lid. The corner is BROKEN so it is reasonable to assume the same happened with the lid.

Although the fact remains that its construction method is unknown. I don't dispute that it was built by human hands.

So what is the hell is your problem with this. It was by humans so it was made for a human purpose. There is no rational purpose for any of those blocks of stone.

As to similarity between GP and the step pyramid and mastabas- there is none beyond the general shape,

Which is enough since the general shape of each layer of the Step Pyramid is that of a mastaba.

and there is no hard evidence to support that the minor, or proto pyramids were built PRIOR to the Great Pyramid, and it's associated complex.

There is no hard evidence that you exist for us.

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but I have to admit that it appears obvious to me, at least, that such a link is very likely to exist.

That IS proposing a link. Don't play cute like that. In any case there is no link between New World and Egyptian pyramids except they have four sides and slope towards the center which is a natural thing if you started with dirt as they did in the New World.

Simply impossible.

Except that it has been done. Romans aren't the only ones to do it either.

The lack of decoration of any kind in the GP is not just striking, it is an essential fact.

The first term is dependent on the second. If it wasn't a fact, essential or otherwise, it wouldn't be striking. However since they DID make it without decoration and clearly intended the later pyramids to be shiny polished blocks on the outside it shouldn't be surprising that they did the same thing inside.

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It is rather hard to see something with great meaning in a total lack of transcribed meaning. All that had to happen was for the Pharaoh to say 'hey guys it would be cool if it was a plain block to show just how massive it is and not mess up the geometry with carvings'.

Virtually every other monument or building in the sacred or pharaonic traditions of Egypt is lavishly decorated,

Except for the tombs of Pharaoh for a fairly long period of time. Tombs are not always intended to transmit information to tourists and marks like temples are. Later Egyptian tombs were hidden from sight.

most of it explicitly stating the who, what, when, and why of the installation.

Well some of that has been found in Khufu at the top of the relieving chamber. So we know who was the pharaoh the builders were working for.

Again, I'll state that all the evidence used to support the claim of construction c. 3200 is circumstantial.

No. There are those mason marks in Khufu.

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Furthermore, there is evidence of tampering in at least one critical instance -that of the name "khufu" supposedly left by the "builders" in the top of the relieving chamber.

Nonsense. If you have to call REAL evidence 'tampering' you are working with sand.

To date, I am not aware of any direct, written, incontrovertible,match

And Creationists have never seen any evidence of Evolution.

Search for "the Upuat Project" to get up to date, if you aren't already, and then ask yourself why Hawass has refused to let Gantenbrink send another robot to further explore these shafts

Oh that is obvious. He is the Nubian Servant of the Mummy that is still in the secret chamber. His job is to throw everyone off the track that what is really going on is the Funkin Martians are carrying on their long effort to build a Interstitial Gate to Cuthlu and release the Elder Gods who will eat the brains of all of us. His reward will be that he will be the last eaten.

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I mean you can see it in his eyes and hear it in his voice. He is clearly a conspirator to destroy us all. If you have any doubt on this I recommend the fine research done by Charles Stross in his set of books exposing the history of the Laundry. I only hope he tells us the real deal about Nightmare Green before the Minions of the Elder Gods find him and shut him up forever.

That the Giza complex served some complicated metafunction comprising elements of religion,

Yes. Building a tomb.

statecraft, and astronomy seems certain.

Really big tombs impress the hell out the peasants. There is no actual evidence that astronomy was involved except to get things aligned on right angles. The one attempt to patch astronomy into it involved distortion and an upside down star map which they carefully forgot to mention was upside down for no reason except to generate a fit that wasn't there.

Ethelred

"Sarcophagus" has no lid, corner missing. Why would a sarcophagus be without lid or mummy?

The Arab caliph Abdullah al-Mamun entered the pyramid around AD 820. It has been said that he removed something from the interior. Some have suggested that this was the lid of the sarcophagus, purported to have been fashioned from a meteorite. Further, it has been said that this relic or fragments of it were installed in the Kaaba at Mecca and is revered today as the Black Stone.
http
://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

And I do solumnly testify that if this story is made up, it was not made up by me.

And I do solumnly testify that if this story is made up, it was not made up by me.

Damn good story. Would be most ironic if the Muslims have been revering the sarcophagus of an idolatrous self proclaimed god for the last 1200 yrs!

And I do solumnly testify that if this story is made up, it was not made up by me.

Damn good story. Would be most ironic if the Muslims have been revering the sarcophagus of an idolatrous self proclaimed god for the last 1200 yrs!

I think it would be along the same lines as those authentic egyptian obelisks in front of major cathedrals in Rome and elsewhere. A nod to the continuity of artificial religions designed through the ages to manage the people.

Or perhaps the evolution of a one seminal Religion, symbolized by abram/Abrahams travel from Ur to Egypt and then to the middle east. These religions share much too much not to believe that maybe they are all the same Thing? We've got a huge obelisk in DC dedicated to the founding freemason, George W.

I think it would be along the same lines as those authentic egyptian obelisks in front of major cathedrals in Rome and elsewhere

I think those were moved there during Roman times. By the time the cathedrals were built, probably all memory of Egypt was gone in the West. In any case, Christianity has never had the same fierce hatred of idolatry as the Muslims. Remember what the Taliban did to the ancient Buddhist temple in Afghanistan? Makes you wonder what would happen if radicals gain control in Egypt!

Caligula brought one up and I think Constantine did also.

Knowledge which disappears from the general pop might still be retained by an informed Priesthood. One of the obelisks was buried for safekeeping along with statues of Apollo, hercules the superhero godman, model for Jesus, and others, before Rome was sacked. The church seemed to know just where to look for these artifacts some 500 years later. They sit in the Vatican museum today.

Seems to me that erecting a pagan obelisk in front of a Xian church would be the same as putting a golden calf there, even with their little reliquaries on top. These are in front of the 2 most important churches in xiandom- st peters and the popes personal basilica, st John Lateran.

There was a Moslem expedition some centuries ago to dismantle one of the pyramids... They gave up after 9 mos.

There was a Moslem expedition some centuries ago to dismantle one of the pyramids... They gave up after 9 mos.

Old Arab proverb: All things fear Time, but Time fears the Pyramids

In any case, Christianity has never had the same fierce hatred of idolatry as the Muslims.

We should not let ourselves be biased by our environment.
While proselytizing Northern Europe fighters for Christianity not only used to engage in mass killings of unwilling pagans but also systematically built their churches above the ruins and on the premises of pagan worship sites. Most pagan objects and sources are lost due to their systematical destruction over the centuries.

In 780 Charlemagne decreed the death penalty for all Saxons who failed to be baptised, who failed to keep Christian festivals, and who cremated their dead.

Charlemagne allegedly ordered the beheading of 4,500 Saxons who had been caught practising their native paganism after conversion to Christianity, known as the Massacre of Verden ...

(Source: Wikipedia)

@ frajo,
Of course you're right. I was thinking of the more recent past, and specifically of the Muslim ban on art, music, statuary, etc. The thought of them revering a Pharaonic burial stone struck me as particularly ironic.

@ frajo,
Of course you're right. I was thinking of the more recent past, and specifically of the Muslim ban on art, music, statuary, etc. The thought of them revering a Pharaonic burial stone struck me as particularly ironic.

Little do they know that the cross they wear around their necks was originally the ankh carried by gods with animal heads? Jesus was hung on a 'tree' not a cross. Thoth lives!

By the time the cathedrals were built, probably all memory of Egypt was gone in the West. In any case, Christianity has never had the same fierce hatred of idolatry as the Muslims.

Someone needs to read up on the Iconoclast Revolution.

I was thinking of the more recent past, and specifically of the Muslim ban on art, music, statuary, etc.

There is no general Muslim ban on art, music, statuary etc. There are some specific bans, e.g. Allah can't be depicted in imagery. But this is not specific to Islam. While I never heard of a Jewish ban nevertheless there seems to exist no Jewish imagery of Yahweh.
More info on Wikipedia's "Islamic culture" entry.

@Ethelred

Ok, I won't argue, and I understand the usefulness of a pragmatic approach--I was merely trying to make the point that that the chronology and interpretation of the evidence leave more than a little room for a slightly or even substantially different interpretaiton.

Two asides:

1. I liked the Stross reference.

2. Let's not forget that the Romans had access to muchly advanced engineering and materials.