Michigan researchers hunt for Internet remnants from time travelers

Jan 04, 2014 by Nancy Owano report
time
Image by Sam Rohn, flickr.com/photos/nylocations/

Time travel has captured the public imagination for decades, not excluding screenwriters and creative writing instructors who encourage creative leaps about stepping back and beyond the present through time. What about evidence?

Two researchers from the Department of Physics at Michigan Technological University decided to search the Internet for such evidence and have completed the study, "Searching the Internet for evidence of travelers," submitted on December 26 on ArXiv. Authors Robert Nemiroff, professor of physics, and Teresa Wilson, a PhD candidate, said, "The modern ubiquity" of the Internet lends itself to far-reaching methods to search for time travelers. They said a benefit from their effort, given the great reach of the Internet, is that their search is "the most comprehensive to date."

Specifically, they embarked on a hunt for information about anyone who may have jumped forward in time, rather than focusing on persons who had traveled to the past—those who passed through our time who could have left some trace on the Internet. This may have been revealed in the form of a blog post, tweet, or search revealing they knew ahead of time what was to happen.

For those who support the concept, time travel is no laughing matter. The authors said that time travel to the future "stands on firm scientific footing. Special Relativity has clear sub-luminal solutions that correspond with time travel to the future. A famous theoretical example is the twin paradox. Such future time travel has been experimentally verified, for example, using a pair of clocks one of which was taken on an airplane. The flying clock recorded a relative time delay of order 10-7 seconds, in comparison to the more stationary clock."

To conduct their research, they used three search implementations. They said "The first search covered prescient content placed on the Internet, highlighted by a comprehensive search for specific terms in tweets on Twitter. The second search examined prescient inquiries submitted to a , highlighted by a comprehensive search for specific search terms submitted to a popular astronomy web site. The third search involved a request for a direct Internet communication, either by email or tweet, pre-dating to the time of the inquiry."

No time travelers were discovered.

"Unfortunately, as of this writing, no prescient tweets or emails were received," they stated. The authors however, are not convinced that their coming up with zero means zippo to time travel theory. "Although the negative results reported here may indicate that time travelers from the future are not among us and cannot communicate with us over the modern day Internet, they are by no means proof."

One reason suggested is that it may be physically impossible for them to leave remnants of their stay in the past, and it may be physically impossible for us to find such information, violating "some yet-unknown law of physics, possibly similar to the Chronology Protection Conjecture." [

The authors also raised the question that time travelers may not want to be found, "and may be good at covering their tracks." Other reasons they came up with zero may have been that the time travelers did not leave the specific event tags that the authors searched for. "Finally, our searches were not comprehensive, so that even if time travelers left the exact event tags searched for here, we might have missed them due to human error, oversight, incompleteness of Internet catalogs and searches, or inaccurate content time tags." Nor will the authors abandon their interest. "Given the additional exposure that the public listing of this manuscript gains, we will continue to search, on occasion, for active tweets and emails involving potential ."

Explore further: Study finds high-risk travelers account for nearly one in five persons seeking pre-travel advice

More information: arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1312/1312.7128.pdf

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Mrshipley
3.4 / 5 (7) Jan 04, 2014
What if the report writers themselves are time travellers (UK spelling), trying to put us off the scent?
gwrede
3.9 / 5 (9) Jan 04, 2014
Nemiroff is a famous scientist, so I don't understand why he risks his career with this kind of nonsense.
_ilbud
3.7 / 5 (9) Jan 04, 2014
Time for a round of drug tests in Michigan Tech.
mondoblu
3.7 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2014
The famous theoretical twin paradox cannot be used to travel backward in time.
The twin paradox is only related to time flowing differently depending on the frame of reference of the observer.
Whydening Gyre
3.6 / 5 (9) Jan 04, 2014
Nemiroff is a famous scientist, so I don't understand why he risks his career with this kind of nonsense.

Fun is fun, sheesh... Can't a guy have a little once in a while?
g9_
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2014
If I were a time traveler and left a tag, it would be to show proof of the travel via a photo or video .I would be conceded enough to leave my face as verification as such .
Where would the gamesmanship be if I were to look it up on the internet ?It would defeat the reason to time travel .
Would any time traveler want to announce his presence to our present ?It's much like saying to an idiot I'm smarter than you .
Returners
1.3 / 5 (8) Jan 04, 2014
Would any time traveler want to announce his presence to our present ?It's much like saying to an idiot I'm smarter than you .


An objective historian almost certainly would not announce their presence.

A Government agent sent back in time to prevent a disaster would announce their presence to the government in secret, but if the government didn't believe them, they would take unilateral action to complete their mission; including, if necessary, announcing their presence to other people. (i.e. Doctor Who, Back to the Future, Seven Days).

While the second scenario is perhaps unbelievable, it is the most likely scenario, I believe, which is similar to the typical hypothetical, such as the grandfather paradox, which is probably why the meme is so popular in Science Fiction.

Another alternative would be to send back in time an EM Signal (radio, etc,) or a coded particle stream. This would seem to require less energy than sending an actual human or a car sized machine.
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Returners
1 / 5 (7) Jan 04, 2014
Also, there is an error in construction of the experiment regarding the "pre-dated" email.

If the email were sent, he would have discovered it before he even made the experiment, and he would have disbelieved it because the date would appear impossible, and he would have not yet asked for it.

Thus it produces a paradox in the form of an alternating logic loop.

If A is true then B is false, but if B is false then A is false, but if A is false, then B is true, and then if B is true, then A is true and B is false, and we're back where we started....

Since this construction is self-contradictory, it probably cannot happen in reality.
Returners
1 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2014
Lurker Skippy, wouldn't a time traveling Skippy pretty much debunk your god Skippy myth?


Not at all.

In fact, it would offer very solid evidence in support of the foreknowledge of God and Prophecy, because it would prove that information can travel backwards in time, or into time from somewhere outside of time.

Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Whydening Gyre
2.6 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2014
A Government agent sent back in time to prevent a disaster would announce their presence to the government in secret, but if the government didn't believe them, they would take unilateral action to complete their mission; including, if necessary, announcing their presence to other people. (i.e. Doctor Who, Back to the Future, Seven Days).

Unless that Government was already aware Time travel was possible...
A future Government would not send back ANY agent or message unless the causality loop of that action had been THOROUGHLY analyzed and prepared for.
Think "Men in Black" for time.
Returners
1 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2014
So your theory is the prophets weren't really getting their information from the god Skippy, they were cheating by traveling back and forth through the times?


Since I wasn't there to observe their individual experiences I can't make a blanket statement for all of them. There is no "cheating". Some of them in fact do describe leaving the Earth and/or seeing God in a vision. That doesn't mention time travel, and the two are not necessarily related, except that they both involve "information" from the future.

Is that where you got your visions from? Was it from the god Skippy? Or was it by going up there and seeing it for your self?


No. They happen during sleep.

Are you on drugs?


At the time the most important of these events happened I was on no medication whatever.

I am currently on:
Lisinopril/HCTZ 20/12.5mg
Welbutrin SR 150mg
Neurontin 400mg, 2-4 per day
Simvastatin 20mg
Gemfibrozil 600mg 2 per day

Thankfully the cheapest brands seem to work best...
Returners
1.8 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2014
Unless that Government was already aware Time travel was possible...
A future Government would not send back ANY agent or message unless the causality loop of that action had been THOROUGHLY analyzed and prepared for.
Think "Men in Black" for time.


But you're assuming the logic of a causality loop can be predicted by a human being or a computer. Of course, all thought experiments on the subject must do so, but there is no good reason to assume all loops can be understood.

If a time traveler goes back to rescue a Senator from accidentally being over-run by a Taxi, then after he rescues him, since the Senator was not hurt, then who sent the time traveler? Where did he come from, and where does he go now?

If you try to construct a loop, "well, the program director sends him back next time anyway," you still have a paradox, because something had to create the loop itself.
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
rkolter
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2014
I gave it a five for ingenuity, although I have to believe this was more of a tongue in cheek experiment. My biggest issue (if you take the idea seriously) is that travel through time is not equal to travel through space.

You sit on a world rotating 1000 miles an hour, revolving about the sun, and in a solar system revolving about the galaxy. Pressing the "Leap Forward" button may move you through time, but does not guarantee it will move you through space. Leap a minute ahead and the earth will be hundreds of kilometers away when you reappear.

Thanks to your inertia, any amount of time you spend in the future will equate to distance travelled away from your source - so if your time travel device is on you, and you push it a few seconds later as the saliva boils in your mouth and the blood vessels in your eyes rupture, you will have a brief moment of satisfaction as you travel through time... only to find yourself in the vacuum of space again.
Whydening Gyre
4 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
But you're assuming the logic of a causality loop can be predicted by a human being or a computer. Of course, all thought experiments on the subject must do so, but there is no good reason to assume all loops can be understood.

For human, maybe. What about a quantumly computing AI construct? Those look like they might be on the horizon. And besides,sometimes ya just gotta say - WTF - and do it.
If a time traveler goes back to rescue a Senator from accidentally being over-run by a Taxi, then after he rescues him, since the Senator was not hurt, then who sent the time traveler? Where did he come from, and where does he go now?

That's utterly ridiculous - who wouldn't want a Senator to be run over by a Taxi??
If you try to construct a loop, "well, the program director sends him back next time anyway," you still have a paradox, because something had to create the loop itself.

Let him get run over and you don't have a reason to send him back, now, do ya...
Returners
1.8 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2014
Some of them also describe multiheaded swamp monsters. But they are never around when someone has a camera handy.


And this shows how ignorant you are. If you are talking about the books of Daniel and/or Revelation, had you actually read the text, it was explained by the angel that the creatures are metaphors for several nations, or groups of nations, which would come to power (after the vision was given).

Had you read the text, you would have known that the speaker explains what each creature represents.

The fact that you even tried this pathetic attack means you either have not read the thing for yourself, so you are ignorant of the topic, or if you have read it you are now lying about it.

Which is it "Skippy"? Are you a liar? Or are you just an ignorant fool?
Whydening Gyre
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2014
I gave it a five for ingenuity, although I have to believe this was more of a tongue in cheek experiment.

Ditto.
You sit on a world rotating 1000 miles an hour, revolving about the sun, and in a solar system revolving about the galaxy. Pressing the "Leap Forward" button may move you through time, but does not guarantee it will move you through space. Leap a minute ahead and the earth will be hundreds of kilometers away when you reappear.

Which is why time travel is only useful for going to where you've been. Can't go forward beyond where you are. Something about the cumulative nature of the space/time "holograph", If I remember correctly... I don't remember the exact rule number, but it's one of 'em. They don't let ya bring the manual back with ya.
You can IMAGINE the future... however, you can't go there until you get there.
Yeah, yeah.... I don't like it either...
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
Thanks to your inertia, any amount of time you spend in the future will equate to distance travelled away from your source - so if your time travel device is on you, and you push it a few seconds later as the saliva boils in your mouth and the blood vessels in your eyes rupture, you will have a brief moment of satisfaction as you travel through time... only to find yourself in the vacuum of space again.


This is why you should use radio or coded particle streams. Those survive just fine in space, and don't involve risking any person or machine, and if they are coded so that only the time travel program's past administrators can decode it, then the risk of unknown parties gaining the information is decreased.

Now it becomes a "Crystal Ball" only there are no demons or other occult beliefs or forces involved.

However, you can only "see" if it was actually "sent".

This type of time machine avoids the paradox of preventing it's own invention, for example.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
Hey Lurker Skippy, I'm not the one claiming to predict the future.


That has no relevance to the fact you lied about the contents of the Bible.

Hey Lurker Skippy, I'm not the one who can't remember who said what on which tv show and pulls stuffs out of my ass.


No, no. I did internet search and found the programs in question, and posted the links verifying my statements.

You simply cannot accept the fact that i can often recall specific facts like that, but not necessarily remember the entire program. So what, I doubt you can either.

Now going to go out on the gallery and watch out for one of multiheaded swamp creatures (with my camera just in case.)


Fine, be my guest.

There are no "Literal" multi-headed swamp creatures described in the Bible, so you are attacking a strawman.

Educate yourself.
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
MandoZink
not rated yet Jan 04, 2014
Leap a minute ahead and the earth will be hundreds of kilometers away when you reappear.

Spatial dislocation following temporal relocation is always conveniently ignored, yet it's consideration is paramount. Accounting for extragalactic frames of reference, the displacement would amount to hundreds of kilometers in less than a second.

Competent time travel would require an enclosure with near warp-speed capability as a primary consideration. Whether sooner, or later, you're far from home.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
That's why you get so many things wrong. You think you remember things and think you read things and think you can have visions of things that never happened. How can I have lied about the contents of a bible that I never mentioned?


You specifically responded to a paragraph tied to a prior paragraph about Bible Prophecy...you said, "Some of them..."

The links you posted verified what the other peoples said, and verified you misremembered Skippy.


No they did not. The links verified that I remembered the segment in question word for word, and in context.

The sad thing is you have taken your compulsion to lie about everything to such an extent that you now believe your own lies, even with faced with evidence to the contrary.

So now you are a Returning Lurking Strawman Skippy?


I think you are psychotic.
davidivad
4 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
this article proves to me that some people remember the value of creativity.
Requiem
3 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
It seems to me that a necessary requirement of any concerted effort/organization which took on the task of being the "time police" would be to have a region outside of the "timeline" that they could act as observers and manipulators from. Without this vantage point, there would be no way to verify the results of their operations.

Given that, let's just say that these researchers had discovered a time traveler and then published an article detailing exactly how this was accomplished. They would just go back and correct their methodology so they were never discovered.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Jan 04, 2014
Competent time travel would require an enclosure with near warp-speed capability as a primary consideration. Whether sooner, or later, you're far from home.

Unless you created an entanglement tween the two separate space/time frames... Then - ?
Whydening Gyre
4 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
this article proves to me that some people remember the value of creativity.


And humour...
Bumpy VonSchtynkpickle
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2014
They couldn't find anything because they're from Michigan. Next time have someone at The Ohio State University give it a try.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2014
They couldn't find anything because they're from Michigan. Next time have someone at The Ohio State University give it a try.

Don't bother. The only good research comes out of Penn State or MIT...
Mike_Massen
4.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2014
Returners upsets rationality with this claim
In fact, it would offer very solid evidence in support of the foreknowledge of God and Prophecy, because it would prove that information can travel backwards in time, or into time from somewhere outside of time.
There are so MANY problems with the notion of a (personal) deity of the type claimed by Moses. Although Moses was likely sincere being concerned with why all suffer - his 'explanation' is just as surreal as a typical dream.

Modern man who understands psychology, dreams & mental function is not in any way shape or form impressed by the faulty logic & narrow ego of any deity claimed by anyone.

Imagine you r Moses & had a vivid dream, well FFS it would be obvious it was a (external & Personal) deity & not constructed by the (at the time) unknown functioning of the sub & un-conscious !

Prophecy ? Too stupid to claim it proves any deity, shows story written knew of earlier story - LOL

ALL Deities are Very BAD communicators !
davidivad
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2014
what of Feynman's interpretation of the positron.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Jan 04, 2014
No wonder they're from michigan - here's an authentic picture of a time traveler in a michigan sweat shirt
http://en.wikiped...dude.png

-lots of evidence including cell phones
http://en.wikiped..._legends

-Plus I think it's pretty obvious George Soros can see into the future. It's easy to be a prophet when you know the People who are actually creating the future. Also easy to get very rich.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2014
That's why you get so many things wrong. You think you remember things and think you read things and think you can have visions of things that never happened. How can I have lied about the contents of a bible that I never mentioned?
No, lurker is predicting your future blasphemy which is actually a pretty sure bet. Are you a prophet lurker? How is it the bible prophets predicted things that archeology tells us never happened? Is it because they themselves never existed? Well of course it is.
There are so MANY problems with the notion of a (personal) deity of the type claimed by Moses
No there is only one problem... People have been digging in the holy land for a century and have found only contrary evidence... More than enough to convince them that the bible stories never happened.

Moses is therefore a fable and THAT is a big problem for Jews, xians, and Muslims everywhere. Except of course if they say it's not, and then it's not.
im_ahead_of_my_time
1 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2014
two most relevant links imo:
http://phys.org/n...dox.html
http://phys.org/n...tml#nRlv

i'm a bit flustered - i thought i read a story a few years ago about a gate that was proof of concept accepted by the science community. but all i find now are links to some scifi author. and i dont read that stuff. maybe the men in black took it down. =D

oh if i may address hawkings issue of 'time police'? crystal skulls? tv show ancient aliens had an episode which covered this. oh jeez maybe i do read scifi.
dav_daddy
3 / 5 (2) Jan 04, 2014
Moses is therefore a fable and THAT is a big problem for Jews, xians, and Muslims everywhere. Except of course if they say it's not, and then it's not.


You should really try to learn SOMETHING about a topic before you go trying to make assumptions. It would keep you from appearing ignorant and having people question everything you say.

FYI the only denomination that thinks the old testiment of Bible is literal truth are Protestants. It is well established in the Jewish faith that it doesn't matter if there was never a Moses and if nothing in the Torah ever happened. What is important is what you are supposed to learn from the stories. Catholics and most Christian denominations believe along the same lines more or less.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2014
It is well established in the Jewish faith that it doesn't matter if there was never a Moses and if nothing in the Torah ever happened
Of course it matters. God speaks in the bible. The bible is god-breathed. He says those things HAPPENED.

If the bible is allegory, metaphor, then perhaps the Jews are not REALLY entitled to the holy land. They're not REALLY supposed to rebuild the temple.

And there is not REALLY a messiah waiting to save the world because that immortality thing is only a metaphor for something or other. And of course souls don't REALLY exist, that's just silly. We're just supposed to act as if they did. Why else would we want to conform to that incomplete list of commandments which are only suggestions aren't they, because in reality there IS no mt Sinai.

And there isn't. The whole thing is a myth, INCLUDING souls and heaven. You see how easily and thoroughly your religion falls to pieces? It's worthless except that people continue to KILL and DIE for it. Why?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2014
WHY?
Zephir_fan
Jan 04, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2014
No wonder they're from michigan - here's an authentic picture of a time traveler in a michigan sweat shirt
http://en.wikiped...dude.png

I know that guy! We hang out at the local tap in town!
Whydening Gyre
3 / 5 (2) Jan 04, 2014
WHY?


Oh, this is too easy.... Why not?
mayan
1 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
Time Travel is Possible, there is a metal/ alloy termed "Irriiddiiuum" "Cooppeer" Metal remove double letters,

Price of this metal is 5 Bilion / Kg

Time Travel is described in Atharvana Veda ....
mayan
3 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2014
You can capture radio waves that Travel thru time, or u can use a Travelling Antenna ( Antenna designed with superconductors, long and thin of few angstroms), use zero noise transistors to amplify the signal (Transistors running at -273K) .
Subject this antenna to Time warp effects like Casimer effect or other relativistic effects( some effects can be found in Tesla's Documentation, and Tesla got his knowledge from tantrik Vivekananda)

Time Travel is Possible, there is a metal/ alloy termed "Irriidd....iiuum" "Coop....peer" (Metal remove double letters)
Price of this metal is 5 Bilion / Kg, Many Defense research institutes funded by Global Players buy this, I have seen the testing of this metal. Germany and US buys this metal

Time Travel is described in Atharvana Veda ....
mayan
1 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
I have witnessed many past Future Remote Visioners Experiments spending my own Money( checking on girls if they r trustable or not)
These tantriks or Remote Visioners look into the past life of girls etc, after seeing their house from 8000km or more.

The above tantrik techniques can be integrated with modern electronics.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2014
You can capture radio waves that Travel thru time, or u can use a Travelling Antenna ( Antenna designed with superconductors, long and thin of few angstroms), use zero noise transistors to amplify the signal (Transistors running at -273K).

Yeah, but - can I get one of these at Radio Shack?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2014
I have witnessed many past Future Remote Visioners Experiments spending my own Money( checking on girls if they r trustable or not)
These tantriks or Remote Visioners look into the past life of girls etc, after seeing their house from 8000km or more.

Well? Were they?
I'd be more interest in if they put out or not...
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2014
@Returners
At the time the most important of these events happened I was on no medication whatever.

I am currently on:
Lisinopril/HCTZ 20/12.5mg
Welbutrin SR 150mg
Neurontin 400mg, 2-4 per day
Simvastatin 20mg
Gemfibrozil 600mg 2 per day

you better go talk with your doc. Using gemfibrozil together with simvastatin is not recommended.
Using buPROPion with alcohol may increase the risk of uncommon side effects such as seizures, hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, mood and behavioral changes, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, and panic attacks...
hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, mood and behavioral changes

this MAY explain a lot, now that i think about it.

Using gemfibrozil together with simvastatin should be addressed immediately though... unless you already know. then, forget it.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2014
Returners - a hypothetical...
A couple of years ago, some numbers popped in my head when I laid down for a nap. I play the Powerball using those numbers. After some time, these numbers win.

Did I predict the future? Was it a message from God?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2014
If a time traveler goes back to rescue a Senator from accidentally being over-run by a Taxi, then after he rescues him, since the Senator was not hurt, then who sent the time traveler? Where did he come from, and where does he go now?

That's utterly ridiculous - who wouldn't want a Senator to be run over by a Taxi??

@Whydening Gyre
I wish I could vote you 500 stars just for THIS comment! LMFAO
you made me snort my coffee!

They happen during sleep.

@Returners
like I said before... how can you claim authentic abilities without proof.
Perhaps you should get those meds adjusted. Not being facetious, here, your hallucinations/dreams etc can be indications of instability in your meds, or worse, indications of conditions that could be deteriorating as you speak.

sepsis can cause hallucinations etc, ... and you obviously have certain conditions that cannot take much shock given those meds you posted.
the slope is slippery... take care!
goracle
4 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
Easy. Look for lightning and a naked bodybuilder with an Austrian accent. Works every time.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2014
Cap'n,
Thanks for acknowledging my meager attempts at humor. But after viewing some of the posts, you just can't help yerself, y'know?
I do gain a fair amount of knowledge here. Many of the posters do have valid info to learn from and, believe it or not, I respect that. I even I suppose it could be considered a way of discuss science topics without having to pay for the subscription fees of "Luxury" journals However, since no one actually posts peer reviewed papers here(which I prob'ly would find too dry for my tastes, anyway), this is not a "science" site.
This an entertainment site using science topics as the "modus introducti". We're really all here more for the entertainment value. Those few that take it (and themselves) too seriously, end up looking like sad, overworked, substance abusing shut-ins.
Oh - wait... Oops! Since I'm self-employed, use nicotine, caffeine and I don't get out o' the house much in snowy conditions, that would make me...?!?
Naaaahhh....
Captain Stumpy
4.7 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2014
This an entertainment site using science topics as the "modus introducti". We're really all here more for the entertainment value.

perhaps a forum for the science aficionado would be a better descriptor?
some places just dont have anywhere to go for someone who likes science. like where i live. this is my outlet. heck... our library is so small that you could literally spit across it and never fear of hitting any books.

i have learned quite a bit though.
especially from posters like Q-Star and GSwift7.
and i find some of the fanatics interesting at times too.

Humour doesn't always go over well here, if at all, i've noticed. too bad. i rather like it. :-)
end up looking like sad, overworked, substance abusing shut-ins

thats me! LOL
i like to snort hot cocoa powder and creamer during winters, then stand outside in the cold... when you get a runny nose, it really freaks people out when you go into town like that! and then they gross out when you snort and enjoy it...

thingumbobesquire
not rated yet Jan 05, 2014
Risible inanity as science. What else is new?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2014
Oh, this is too easy.... Why not?
I TOLD you why not.

"The so-called Yelwa massacre was actually a series of related incidents of mass violence between Muslims and Christians which took place in Yelwa, Nigeria between February and May 2004 killing over 700 people. The first incident in the series occurred on 4 February 2004 when armed Muslims attacked the Christians of Yelwa killing more than 78 Christians including at least 48 who were worshipping inside a church compound. According to some sources, the signal for the attack was a call for Jihad from the local mosque.

"The February killings inflamed tensions between the communities which had simmered since the 2001 Jos riots when conflict between Muslims and Christians resulted in 1,000 dead. On 2 May 2004 local Christians responded to the February incident by attacking Muslims in Yelwa resulting in roughly 630 dead."

- Dozens and dozens and dozens every day around the world.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 05, 2014
These things HAPPEN because these religions are locked in a struggle to outgrow one another. Because the BOOKS say to be fruitful unto The Lord, children are a gift unto Allah, children of our youth/quiver full, a woman's place is in the home, give no thought for the morrow, god will provide just as he did the Israelites in the desert as long as you remain faithful TO HIM.

And the people take what they find in the books literally because GOD SAID THEM and their immortal souls are at stake.

The result is chronic overpopulation, bigotry, suffering, bloodshed, and horror.

Can this be the result of metaphor, simile, allegory? No. The existing religions survived because they were best at compelling adherents to outgrow and overrun their counterparts.

The bible describes this in 2 parts. The OT explains conquest from without; the NT explains revolution from within. The bible is an instruction manual for the establishment and maintenance of Empire. Islam just put the whole thing to music.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2014
thats me! LOL
Yeah I remember how pussytard used to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about herself... a woman thing i guess.

but who really GIVES a shit?they tell me that that's what facebook is for.

but enough about me.
skippy_skippys
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
"Hey Lurker Skippy, I'm not the one who can't remember who said what on which tv show and pulls stuffs out of my ass." - idiot troll


That is a good strategy for you to never actually say anything.
Zephir_fan
Jan 05, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
skippy_skippys
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
"Hey Lurker Skippy, I'm not the one who can't remember who said what on which tv show and pulls stuffs out of my ass." - idiot troll


That is a good strategy for you to never actually say anything.


Yes I thought that too.


Yes everyone knows that you thought not to say anything here a good idea. That way you can ridicule others without having to be judged yourself. Do you see the hypocrisy in not being qualified and void of facts yourself to call others stupid, skippy? Probably not because the ira is borderline retarded?
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
you better go talk with your doc. Using gemfibrozil together with simvastatin is not recommended.


It's not a problem compared to the medical symptoms.

I have never drank alcohol nor used any recreational drug in my life, and I don't intend to start. So that is not an issue, and will never be an issue.
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2014
Otto:

Your own source says the Muslims started it, much like 911.

What exactly do you expect everyone else to do? Just let them Muslims kill people at will?

Remember, in the Bible, when the priests had the mob come take Jesus away, and it says that Peter stepped in with the sword he had and tried to defend him, cutting off the servant's ear, what did Jesus say?

He commanded Peter to put up his sword, "all who live by the sword perish by the sword". (matt. 26:52).

Now technically, this was a unique case in some respects, because here Jesus didn't want anybody killing people in his name.

Later we see in Romans that capital punishment, for law enforcement and military purposes, was never done away with. This does NOT make it right in the eyes of Christianity for people to go start unprovoked wars. Yet nations and people DO have a right to defend themselves if they so choose.

If you look back at the Conquistadors, you know, I thnk that was evil. I know it was.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2014
Your own source says the Muslims started it, much like 911.

What exactly do you expect everyone else to do? Just let them Muslims kill people at will?
Yeah I know you hate Muslims because your book tells you to. And they hate you for the very same reasons.

The bible and the Koran say EXACTLY the same things. You think the Koran is worse because it says some of these things more often?
Remember, in the Bible, when the priests had the mob come take Jesus away, and it says that Peter stepped in with the sword he had and tried to defend him, cutting off the servant's ear, what did Jesus say?
Remember when Jesus said 'I have come not to bring peace but a sword'? Remember how he said that all who didn't believe in him are evil?

Remember when he said "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." in Luke? Plenty of good old-time butchering in the OT.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (6) Jan 05, 2014
The ONLY REASON xians are no longer as vicious as they used to be is because western culture FORCES them to be civil. Before the enlightenment we see the true face of your religion. We see what it was designed to do.

History of the west has since been the gradual extrication of our society from the numbing, deadening, damning clutch of the xian church.

And wherever it is given reign, whether in Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Rwanda/Burundi and elsewhere around the globe, we can expect genocide every bit as thorough and enthusiastic as when Joshua entered Palestine.
Mike_Massen
5 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2014
@Returners
There are so MANY many problems with the notion of any (personal) deity of the type claimed by Moses. Although Moses was likely sincere (maybe) being concerned with why all (beings) suffer - his 'explanation' is just as surreal in so many ways as a typical dream perhaps Opium inspired too !

Modern man in Western Culture who understands psychology well, dreams & mental function is not in any way shape or form impressed at all by the faulty logic & narrow ego of any deity claimed by anyone in all recorded history !

Imagine you r Moses & had a vivid dream, well FFS it would be obvious it was a (external & Personal) deity & not constructed by the (at the time) unknown functioning of the sub & un-conscious !

Prophecy ? Too stupid to claim it proves any type of deity, shows easily a story written knew of earlier story & in many probable ways acceptable as evidence - LOL

ALL Deities are Very very BAD communicators & cannot EVER be approached to reply - WHY ????
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2014
There are so MANY many problems with the notion of any (personal) deity of the type claimed by Moses. Although Moses was likely sincere
The one and only PROBLEM with Moses is he didn't exist. How do we know this? Archeology tells us there were never any 2m Jews in goshen, the Sinai and Palestine were occupied throughout the period by garrisoned Egyptian troops, and the Hebrew religion originated among Canaanites in the levant.

And exegists tell us the Torah had at least 4 authors. So any pleasant maunderings about the nature of a personal god or the temperament of the characters concocted to sell that notion, is a waste of time.

Apologists have had centuries to tailor their explanations to make them relatively logic-proof, at least to believers. But they cannot counter what archeology and hermeneutics has exposed about the artifice of the contents of the book.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) Jan 06, 2014
The result is chronic overpopulation, bigotry, suffering, bloodshed, and horror.


So... Religion is Evolution's way of "culling the herd"?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) Jan 06, 2014
@Returners
There are so MANY many problems with the notion of any (personal) deity of the type claimed by Moses. Although Moses was likely sincere (maybe) being concerned with why all (beings) suffer - his 'explanation' is just as surreal in so many ways as a typical dream perhaps Opium inspired too !

Yeah. What was that bush that was burning, anyway?
Infinum
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
bool TimeTravel(bool isTraveling){
while(TimeTravel(isTraveling))
return TimeTravel(isTraveling);
return TimeTravel(isTraveling);
}
IanT
not rated yet Jan 06, 2014
There are many more, however, that corroborate biblical evidence, and the following list provides only the most significant discoveries:
A Common Flood Story. Not just the Hebrews (Gen. 6–8), but Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and Greeks all report a flood in primordial times. A Sumerian king list from c. 2100 BC divides itself into two categories: those kings who ruled before a great flood and those who ruled after it. One of the earliest examples of Sumero-Akkadian-Babylonian literature, the Gilgamesh Epic, describes a great flood sent as punishment by the gods, with humanity saved only when the pious Utnapishtim (AKA, "the Mesopotamian Noah") builds a ship and saves the animal world thereon. A later Greek counterpart, the story of Deucalion and Phyrra, tells of a couple who survived a great flood sent by an angry Zeus. Taking refuge atop Mount Parnassus (AKA, "the Greek Ararat"), they supposedly repopulated the earth by heaving stones behind them that sprang into human beings.
The Code of Hammurabi. This seven-foot black diorite stele, discovered at Susa and presently located in the Louvre museum, contains 282 engraved laws of Babylonian King Hammurabi (fl. 1750 BC). The common basis for this law code is the lex talionis ("the law of the tooth"), showing that there was a common Semitic law of retribution in the ancient Near East, which is clearly reflected in the Pentateuch. Exodus 21:23–25, for example, reads: "But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot…" (niv).
The Nuzi Tablets. The some 20,000 cuneiform clay tablets discovered at the ruins of Nuzi, east of the Tigris River and datable to c. 1500 BC, reveal institutions, practices, and customs remarkably congruent to those found in Genesis. These tablets include treaties, marriage arrangements, rules regarding inheritance, adoption, and the like.
The Existence of Hittites. Genesis 23 reports that Abraham buried Sarah in the Cave of Machpelah, which he purchased from Ephron the Hittite. Second Samuel 11 tells of David's adultery with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite. A century ago the Hittites were unknown outside of the Old Testament, and critics claimed that they were a figment of biblical imagination. In 1906, however, archaeologists digging east of Ankara, Turkey, discovered the ruins of Hattusas, the ancient Hittite capital at what is today called Boghazkoy, as well as its vast collection of Hittite historical records, which showed an empire flourishing in the mid-second millennium BC. This critical challenge, among many others, was immediately proved worthless — a pattern that would often be repeated in the decades to come.
The Merneptah Stele. A seven-foot slab engraved with hieroglyphics, also called the Israel Stele, boasts of the Egyptian pharaoh's conquest of Libyans and peoples in Palestine, including the Israelites: "Israel — his seed is not." This is the earliest reference to Israel in nonbiblical sources and demonstrates that, as of c. 1230 BC, the Hebrews were already living in the Promised Land.
Biblical Cities Attested Archaeologically. In addition to Jericho, places such as Haran, Hazor, Dan, Megiddo, Shechem, Samaria, Shiloh, Gezer, Gibeah, Beth Shemesh, Beth Shean, Beersheba, Lachish, and many other urban sites have been excavated, quite apart from such larger and obvious locations as Jerusalem or Babylon. Such geographical markers are extremely significant in demonstrating that fact, not fantasy, is intended in the Old Testament historical narratives; otherwise, the specificity regarding these urban sites would have been replaced by "Once upon a time" narratives with only hazy geographical parameters, if any.
Israel's enemies in the Hebrew Bible likewise are not contrived but solidly historical. Among the most dangerous of these were the Philistines, the people after whom Palestine itself would be named. Their earliest depiction is on the Temple of Rameses III at Thebes, c. 1150 BC, as "peoples of the sea" who invaded the Delta area and later the coastal plain of Canaan. The Pentapolis (five cities) they established — namely Ashkelon, Ashdod, Gaza, Gath, and Ekron — have all been excavated, at least in part, and some remain cities to this day. Such precise urban evidence measures favorably when compared with the geographical sites claimed in the holy books of other religious systems, which often have no basis whatever in reality.10
Shishak's Invasion of Judah. First Kings 14 and 2 Chronicles 12 tell of Pharaoh Shishak's conquest of Judah in the fifth year of the reign of King Rehoboam, the brainless son of Solomon, and how Solomon's temple in Jerusalem was robbed of its treasures on that occasion. This victory is also commemorated in hieroglyphic wall carvings on the Temple of Amon at Thebes.
The Moabite Stone. Second Kings 3 reports that Mesha, the king of Moab, rebelled against the king of Israel following the death of Ahab. A three-foot stone slab, also called the Mesha Stele, confirms the revolt by claiming triumph over Ahab's family, c. 850 BC, and that Israel had "perished forever."
Obelisk of Shalmaneser III. In 2 Kings 9–10, Jehu is mentioned as King of Israel (841–814 BC). That the growing power of Assyria was already encroaching on the northern kings prior to their ultimate conquest in 722 BC is demonstrated by a six-and-a-half-foot black obelisk discovered in the ruins of the palace at Nimrud in 1846. On it, Jehu is shown kneeling before Shalmaneser III and offering tribute to the Assyrian king, the only relief we have to date of a Hebrew monarch.
Burial Plaque of King Uzziah. Down in Judah, King Uzziah ruled from 792 to 740 BC, a contemporary of Amos, Hosea, and Isaiah. Like Solomon, he began well and ended badly. In 2 Chronicles 26 his sin is recorded, which resulted in his being struck with leprosy later in life. When Uzziah died, he was interred in a "field of burial that belonged to the kings." His stone burial plaque has been discovered on the Mount of Olives, and it reads: "Here, the bones of Uzziah, King of Judah, were brought. Do not open."
Hezekiah's Siloam Tunnel Inscription. King Hezekiah of Judah ruled from 721 to 686 BC. Fearing a siege by the Assyrian king, Sennacherib, Hezekiah preserved Jerusalem's water supply by cutting a tunnel through 1,750 feet of solid rock from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam inside the city walls (2 Kings 20; 2 Chron. 32). At the Siloam end of the tunnel, an inscription, presently in the archaeological museum at Istanbul, Turkey, celebrates this remarkable accomplishment. The tunnel is probably the only biblical site that has not changed its appearance in 2,700 years.
The Sennacherib Prism. After having conquered the 10 northern tribes of Israel, the Assyrians moved southward to do the same to Judah (2 Kings 18–19). The prophet Isaiah, however, told Hezekiah that God would protect Judah and Jerusalem against Sennacherib (2 Chron. 32; Isa. 36–37). Assyrian records virtually confirm this. The cuneiform on a hexagonal, 15-inch baked clay prism found at the Assyrian capital of Nineveh describes Sennacherib's invasion of Judah in 701 BC in which it claims that the Assyrian king shut Hezekiah inside Jerusalem "like a caged bird." Like the biblical record, however, it does not state that he conquered Jerusalem, which the prism certainly would have done had this been the case. The Assyrians, in fact, bypassed Jerusalem on their way to Egypt, and the city would not fall until the time of Nebuchadnezzar and the Neo-Babylonians in 586 BC. Sennacherib himself returned to Nineveh where his own sons murdered him.
IanT
not rated yet Jan 06, 2014
This article is from 2004. There have been many more archaeological digs since that corroborate places, names, or events mentioned in the Bible. Be arrogantly dismissive of the Bible to your own peril.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
Not just the Hebrews (Gen. 6–8), but Mesopotamians, Egyptians, and Greeks all report a flood in primordial times. A Sumerian king list from c. 2100 BC divides itself into two categories: those kings who ruled before a great flood and those who ruled after it. One of the earliest examples of Sumero-Akkadian-Babylonian literature, the Gilgamesh Epic, describes a great flood sent as punishment by the gods, with humanity saved only when the pious Utnapishtim (AKA, "the Mesopotamian Noah") builds a ship and saves the animal world thereon. A later Greek counterpart, the story of Deucalion and Phyrra, tells of a couple who survived a great flood sent by an angry Zeus. Taking refuge atop Mount Parnassus (AKA, "the Greek Ararat"), they supposedly repopulated the earth by heaving stones behind them that sprang into human beings.

Two points, here -
a. those peoples and events aren't actually "in" the "Bible".
b. Hebrew theology, and by association, Christian are plagiarists.
flying_finn
1 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
Christians, Muslims are copycats. Go back further for your flood stories etc. We are all seeded from the Nephilim !
http://en.wikiped..._Sitchin

Who did they copy?
flying_finn
1 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
(The Summerians)
flying_finn
1 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
Back to silly things like time travel.........more of the article,

Nemiroff, who normally publishes on more arcane subjects, such as gravitational lensing and gamma-ray bursts, says this recent endeavor is not as big a stretch for him as some might think. "I'm always doing stuff on space and time," he said, adding, "This has been a lot of fun."
edward_ponderer
3 / 5 (2) Jan 06, 2014
Spoke to a friend about this this morning. All criticism of the reality of this aside, such a time traveller would obviously be covering their tracks and hardly blogging predictions. [Even if so, if not luck, it would be more likely clairvoyance--after all, its more likely that information would travel through time than physical bodies, is it not?] Rather, they would need funding for their acts in the most non-conspicuous manner possible--and this would involve using their future-knowlege "insider information," or other mean, to do a little Wall Street wizardry. So such, no-basis-for-statistically-impossible success wunderkids should be what to search for.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
thats me! LOL
Yeah I remember how pussytard used to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about herself... a woman thing i guess.

but who really GIVES a shit?they tell me that that's what facebook is for.

but enough about me.


i offered to give you proof
you are going to sit and whine.
either means you are a coward, or you are afraid to know that i really am NOT "socks"

your move, Otto. still waiting.

The ONLY REASON xians are no longer as vicious as they used to be is because western culture FORCES them to be civil

you might change "vicious" to "war like"... as the xtians tend to still be vicious when gathered together in churches, it is just not physical violence, usually... it is mostly being 2faced or gossip etc etc
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Jan 06, 2014
Returners
He commanded Peter to put up his sword, "all who live by the sword perish by the sword". (matt. 26:52). Now technically, this was a unique case in some respects, because here Jesus didn't want anybody killing people in his name.

not unique in ANY respect.
he didnt want ANYBODY killing in his name, which is why he gave the comment, because he said HE would come back and do it himself...
& contradiction later written
Later we see in Romans that capital punishment, for law enforcement and military purposes, was never done away with.

you are arguing man made law with your god law? WTF?
It is supposed to be separate. Last I read, xtians are not supposed to do ANY violence, judge others, etc, etc.
so... you are basically supporting religious hypocrisy? It's ok to kill in one respect but not another. Typical RELIGIOUS hypocrisy.

Perhaps you should READ
and i mean REALLY READ the Otto and Massen posts...
might actually LEARN something and start thinking for yoursel
flying_finn
not rated yet Jan 06, 2014
Marduck loves you all.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2014
Spoke to a friend about this this morning. All criticism of the reality of this aside, such a time traveller would obviously be covering their tracks and hardly blogging predictions. [Even if so, if not luck, it would be more likely clairvoyance--after all, its more likely that information would travel through time than physical bodies, is it not?] Rather, they would need funding for their acts in the most non-conspicuous manner possible--and this would involve using their future-knowlege "insider information," or other mean, to do a little Wall Street wizardry. So such, no-basis-for-statistically-impossible success wunderkids should be what to search for.

Or Lottery winners...
Jonathan_Robin
not rated yet Jan 07, 2014
Perhaps the authors of the study could focus upon contemporary poetry and science fiction writers CF Asimov
douglasjbender
not rated yet Jan 10, 2014
Actually, the Michigan researchers DID find evidence of time-travelers on the Internet. Those time-travelers, however, found out they had been discovered, and went back in time to erase all traces of their existence.