The mechanism for gamma-ray bursts from space is decoded

radiation
Credit: CC0 Public Domain

Gamma-ray bursts, short and intense flashes of energetic radiation coming from outer space, are the brightest explosions in the universe. As gamma rays are blocked by the atmosphere, the bursts were discovered accidentally in the late sixties by the Vela satellites, defense satellites sent to monitor manmade nuclear explosions in space.

Since their discovery the bursts have been at the focus of attention with several dedicated satellites launched to explore their origin. In the late nineties it was realized that long bursts (lasting more than a few seconds) arise during the death and collapse of massive stars, while in the first decade of this century it was found that shorter bursts (lasting less than a few seconds) arise in neutron star mergers. This last realization was confirmed dramatically two years ago with simultaneous observations of gravitational waves by the gravitational wave detectors LIGO and Virgo and a short burst by two satellites, NASA's Fermi and ESA's Integral.

Still many mysteries involving these bursts remained. Particularly puzzling was the question how the high energy is produced. Last January a gamma-ray detector aboard NASA's Neil Gehrels Swift satellite detected GRB 190114C, a bright burst that took place 4.5 billion years ago in a distant galaxy. Following a trigger from Swift, the MAGIC telescope, a Cherenkov detector at the Roque de los Muchachos Observatory in La Palma, Spain, slewed toward the burst's location and detected extremely high energy photons (at TeV energies) coming from it. The ultra-high energy TeV photons, which were observed about 50 seconds after the prompt emission, in the so-called afterglow phase, were at least 10 times more energetic than the highest energy photons detected previously from any burst.

By now only preliminary data of the MAGIC observations have been posted. Still, Prof. Evgeny Derishev from the Institute for Applied Physics in Nizhny Novogorod and Prof. Tsvi Piran from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem combined these data with observations of lower energy (X-ray) photons carried out by the Neil Gehrels Swift and have shown that they reveal the details of the emission mechanism. In a paper published today in the Astrophysical Journal Letters, the authors show that the observed radiation must have originated in a jet moving at 0.9999 the speed of light toward us. The high energy radiation observed by MAGIC was emitted by electrons accelerated to TeV energies within the jet. The emission process can also be identified: it is the so-called "inverse Compton mechanism" in which ultra-high energy electrons collide with low-energy photons and boost their energy. Remarkably the same relativistic electrons are also producing the low- "seed" photons via synchrotron radiation.

"MAGIC has found the Rosetta stone of ," says Prof. Piran. "This unique detection enables us for the first time to discriminate between different emission models and discover what are the exact conditions in the explosion. We can also understand now why such radiation wasn't observed in the past." Future Cherenkov telescopes such as the planned Cherenkov Telescope Array, a multinational project under construction, will be much more sensitive than MAGIC. The current detection suggests that many other such events will be detected in the future and will continue to shed light on this cosmic mystery.


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More information: Evgeny Derishev et al. The Physical Conditions of the Afterglow Implied by MAGIC's Sub-TeV Observations of GRB 190114C, The Astrophysical Journal (2019). DOI: 10.3847/2041-8213/ab2d8a
Citation: The mechanism for gamma-ray bursts from space is decoded (2019, August 1) retrieved 23 August 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-08-mechanism-gamma-ray-space-decoded.html
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Aug 01, 2019
Astrophysical electric discharge, that's some powerful lightning!

Aug 01, 2019
Astrophysical electric discharge, that's some powerful lightning!
It isn't a 'discharge', and thus it isn't 'lightning'.

Aug 01, 2019
Reread the article then the abstract (of course paper is paywalled), that is exactly what they are saying (electric discharge). To achieve gamma-ray energies it must be an arc mode discharge. And lightning on Earth causes gamma-ray flashes, given we are discussing plasma physics the mechanism is likely the same but on a larger scale.

Aug 01, 2019
(of course paper is paywalled)
There's a pre-print on arXiv: The physical conditions of the afterglow implied by MAGIC's sub-TeV observations of GRB 190114C

To achieve gamma-ray energies it must be an arc mode discharge.
Comptonization of x-ray photons -- right from the abstract:
"Seventy seconds after the trigger the forward shock had Lorentz factor ≃100 and the electrons producing the observed sub-TeV radiation had a Lorentz factor ≃10^4, so that the sub-TeV radiation originates from Comptonization of X-ray photons at the border between Thomson and Klein-Nishina regimes."

Aug 01, 2019
Astrophysical electric discharge, that's some powerful lightning!


Lightning requires the breakdown of a dielectric (air). You'll find plasma is a very good conductor.

Aug 01, 2019
(of course paper is paywalled)
There's a pre-print on arXiv: https://arxiv.org...05.08285

To achieve gamma-ray energies it must be an arc mode discharge.
Comptonization of x-ray photons -- right from the abstract:
"Seventy seconds after the trigger the forward shock had Lorentz factor ≃100 and the electrons producing the observed sub-TeV radiation had a Lorentz factor ≃10^4, so that the sub-TeV radiation originates from Comptonization of X-ray photons at the border between Thomson and Klein-Nishina regimes."

Yep, electric discharge.

Aug 01, 2019

Yep, electric discharge.


Errrr.........nope.

Aug 01, 2019
Astrophysical electric discharge, that's some powerful lightning!


Lightning requires the breakdown of a dielectric (air). You'll find plasma is a very good conductor.

Nope, arc mode discharge does not require air.

Aug 01, 2019
Astrophysical electric discharge, that's some powerful lightning!


Lightning requires the breakdown of a dielectric (air). You'll find plasma is a very good conductor.

Nope, arc mode discharge does not require air.


What is being observed here is nothing to do with lightning or arc mode discharge woo.

Aug 01, 2019
It's plasma, the energy involved and current density required to achieve gamma-ray radiation insists this will be arc mode discharge. Just as it occurs with lightning on Earth.

Aug 01, 2019
It's plasma, the energy involved and current density required to achieve gamma-ray radiation insists this will be arc mode discharge.
It was the collision of 2 neutron stars, and back here on earth, *after* detecting the gravitational waves from the event, we detected ultra-high energy TeV *photons*

From the article:
Following a trigger from Swift, the MAGIC telescope, a Cherenkov detector at the Roque de los Muchachos Observatory in La Palma, Spain, slewed toward the burst's location and detected extremely high energy photons (at TeV energies) coming from it. The ultra-high energy TeV photons, which were observed about 50 seconds after the prompt emission, in the so-called afterglow phase, were at least 10 times more energetic than the highest energy photons detected previously from any burst.

Aug 01, 2019
It's plasma, the energy involved and current density required to achieve gamma-ray radiation insists this will be arc mode discharge.
It was the collision of 2 neutron stars, and back here on earth, *after* detecting the gravitational waves from the event, we detected ultra-high energy TeV *photons*

From the article:
Following a trigger from Swift, the MAGIC telescope, a Cherenkov detector at the Roque de los Muchachos Observatory in La Palma, Spain, slewed toward the burst's location and detected extremely high energy photons (at TeV energies) coming from it. The ultra-high energy TeV photons, which were observed about 50 seconds after the prompt emission, in the so-called afterglow phase, were at least 10 times more energetic than the highest energy photons detected previously from any burst.


Hey, Proto; don't get technical! This is a Saturnist you are dealing with! :)

Aug 01, 2019
It's plasma, the energy involved and current density required to achieve gamma-ray radiation insists this will be arc mode discharge.
It was the collision of 2 neutron stars, and back here on earth, *after* detecting the gravitational waves from the event, we detected ultra-high energy TeV *photons*

From the article:
Following a trigger...slewed toward the burst's location and detected extremely high energy photons coming from it. The ultra-high energy TeV photons, which were observed about 50 seconds after the prompt emission, in the so-called afterglow phase, were at least 10 times more energetic than the highest energy photons detected previously from any burst.

That's the claim, but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture. However electric discharge in plasmas occurs regularly, and we know plasma discharge causes gamma-rays here on Earth. There is no need to posit dancing leprechauns caused this when a mechanism is available.

Aug 01, 2019
It's plasma, the energy involved and current density required to achieve gamma-ray radiation insists this will be arc mode discharge. Just as it occurs with lightning on Earth.


Bollocks.

Aug 01, 2019
That's the claim, but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture. However electric discharge in plasmas occurs regularly, and we know plasma discharge causes gamma-rays here on Earth. There is no need to posit dancing leprechauns caused this when a mechanism is available.


Wrong. Neutron stars are observed. As was the merger of two of them. Accompanied by the predicted gravitational waves. And the predicted EM signature. Including r-process nucleosynthesis. As predicted. Funny that, eh? And yet I can find nothing in the literature to back up the bollocks that you are talking. Strange.

Aug 01, 2019
but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture
Mmm, gravity overwhelming the electric electrons, and their electron degeneracy pressure, for anything above 1.44 solar masses. Too much mass...

See: Hyperphysics sections on Electron Degeneracy and the The Chandrasekhar Limit for White Dwarfs

Aug 01, 2019
but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture
Mmm, gravity overwhelming the electric electrons, and their electron degeneracy pressure, for anything above 1.44 solar masses. Too much mass...

See: http://hyperphysi...war.html sections on Electron Degeneracy and the The Chandrasekhar Limit for White Dwarfs


Getting technical again, Proto! You are dealing with a Velikovskian. He doesn't believe in degeneracy. Or, presumably, the Pauli Exclusion Principle. And therefore (presumably) the Periodic Table. Stars are nothing to do with the collapse of gas. Or nuclear fusion. It is something to do with an invisible incoming current. Or an impossible z-pinch. Or.......well, it depends which electric sun model you follow! The only thing they have in common is that they are all scientifically impossible woo.

Aug 01, 2019
Getting technical again
yeah, he hates that doesn't he...

Aug 01, 2019
Gamma rays are blocked by the atmosphere

Gamma-ray bursts
Short and intense flashes of energetic radiation
Coming from outer space
Are the brightest explosions in the universe
As gamma rays are blocked by the atmosphere
The bursts were discovered accidentally
The ultra-high energy TeV photons
Which were observed
50 seconds after the prompt emission
In the so-called afterglow phase
Were at least 10 times more energetic
Than the highest energy photons detected previously from any burst

Even as neutrons stars collapse into blackholes
Given of The ultra-high energy TeV photons
This energy of this blackhole
Emitting through its clouds of debris, its cocoon
These highly energetic photons passing through light years of impenetrable debris
The brightest explosions in the universe

Are blocked by the Earth's Atmosphere! – Some Earth, some Atmosphere!

Aug 01, 2019
This is amazing news. We finally caught one with the right instrumentation to see what's going on, if this analysis holds up after all the data are available. (Not a very big "if" I think, but we'll have to wait to see.)

Aug 01, 2019
"As gamma rays are blocked by the atmosphere, the bursts were discovered accidentally in the late sixties by the Vela satellites, defense satellites sent to monitor manmade nuclear explosions in space."

Hold on. I was not aware that the US had sent up 'defence satellites in the late 1960s to monitor 'MANMADE NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS IN SPACE". NUCLEAR explosions? What was the purpose in that, and how far into outer space had they sent up those rockets to explode? And did they also send astronauts to the Moon THROUGH the nuclear blast effects/radiation? If they did, were the astronauts aware of it?

Aug 01, 2019
but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture
Mmm, gravity overwhelming the electric electrons, and their electron degeneracy pressure, for anything above 1.44 solar masses. Too much mass...

See: http://hyperphysi...war.html sections on Electron Degeneracy and the The Chandrasekhar Limit for White Dwarfs

You're still jabbering about hypothetical conjecture. White dwarf stars and the faerie tales about the life cycle of stars are, again, hypothetical conjecture. You (and jonesdumb) keep referring to these conjectures as if they were facts, they are not facts.

Aug 01, 2019
We do know one fact, arc mode discharge plasma creates gamma-ray flashes.

Aug 01, 2019
Aztecs invented the vacation.

Aug 02, 2019
"As gamma rays are blocked by the atmosphere, the bursts were discovered accidentally in the late sixties by the Vela satellites, defense satellites sent to monitor manmade nuclear explosions in space."

Hold on. I was not aware that the US had sent up 'defence satellites in the late 1960s to monitor 'MANMADE NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS IN SPACE". NUCLEAR explosions? What was the purpose in that, and how far into outer space had they sent up those rockets to explode? And did they also send astronauts to the Moon THROUGH the nuclear blast effects/radiation? If they did, were the astronauts aware of it?
says I

Hmm Nobody seems interested in my query regarding manmade nuclear explosions in space. I'd like to know HOW CLOSE TO THE EARTH were those MANMADE nuclear explosions in space. And is there a possibility that those explosions were the source for this warming trend that Earth is experiencing now??

Aug 02, 2019
We do know one fact, arc mode discharge plasma creates gamma-ray flashes.
Well not to split hairs but the fact is this was a gamma-ray *burst*
...a bright burst that took place 4.5 billion years ago in a distant galaxy.

Aug 02, 2019
Hmm Nobody seems interested in my query regarding manmade nuclear explosions in space. I'd like to know HOW CLOSE TO THE EARTH were those MANMADE nuclear explosions in space. And is there a possibility that those explosions were the source for this warming trend that Earth is experiencing now??
No, the Vela satellites are in space, not the explosions they're up there to detect, see Nuclear detonation detection system

Aug 02, 2019
Hmm Nobody seems interested in my query regarding manmade nuclear explosions in space. I'd like to know HOW CLOSE TO THE EARTH were those MANMADE nuclear explosions in space. And is there a possibility that those explosions were the source for this warming trend that Earth is experiencing now??
No, the Vela satellites are in space, not the explosions they're up there to detect, see https://en.wikipe...n_system


I see. So the satellites are up there to detect, if any, nuclear explosions somewhere on the Earth?
The way that the author worded the sentence, it reads as though nuclear explosions had occurred in space that were being monitored by the satellites.
OK Thanks Proto. That clears that up for me.

Aug 02, 2019
but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture
Mmm, gravity overwhelming the electric electrons, and their electron degeneracy pressure, for anything above 1.44 solar masses. Too much mass...

See: http://hyperphysi...war.html sections on Electron Degeneracy and the The Chandrasekhar Limit for White Dwarfs

You're still jabbering about hypothetical conjecture. White dwarf stars and the faerie tales about the life cycle of stars are, again, hypothetical conjecture. You (and jonesdumb) keep referring to these conjectures as if they were facts, they are not facts.


Yes they are. Observed facts, at that, woo boy.

Aug 02, 2019
We do know one fact, arc mode discharge plasma creates gamma-ray flashes.
Well not to split hairs but the fact is this was a gamma-ray *burst*
...a bright burst that took place 4.5 billion years ago in a distant galaxy.

You're right, it was a burst. Regardless, a burst or a flash they are still gamma-rays just on a different scale. The processes are very likely the same ikr similar.

Aug 02, 2019
but we all know neutron stars are hypothetical conjecture
Mmm, gravity overwhelming the electric electrons, and their electron degeneracy pressure, for anything above 1.44 solar masses. Too much mass...

See: http://hyperphysi...war.html sections on Electron Degeneracy and the The Chandrasekhar Limit for White Dwarfs

You're still jabbering about hypothetical conjecture. White dwarf stars and the faerie tales about the life cycle of stars are, again, hypothetical conjecture. You (and jonesdumb) keep referring to these conjectures as if they were facts, they are not facts.


Yes they are. Observed facts, at that, woo boy.

Not even close jonesdumb, not even close.

Aug 02, 2019

Not even close jonesdumb, not even close.


Yep. Settled science. What caused the simultaneous GWs and EM signature from the neutron star merger? Why did those signals match predictions? Including r-process nucleosynthesis? Show me the alternative theory (lol) that successfully predicted the observations. There aren't any.
White dwarves? Sirius B. Observed.
Pulsars? Observed.
Supernovae? Observed.
Young solar systems? Observed.

I'm not seeing the opposition to the claims in the scientific literature. Maybe you can point it out?

Aug 02, 2019

Not even close jonesdumb, not even close.


Yep. Settled science. What caused the simultaneous GWs and EM signature from the neutron star merger? Why did those signals match predictions? Including r-process nucleosynthesis? Show me the alternative theory (lol) that successfully predicted the observations. There aren't any.
White dwarves? Sirius B. Observed.
Pulsars? Observed.
Supernovae? Observed.
Young solar systems? Observed.

I'm not seeing the opposition to the claims in the scientific literature. Maybe you can point it out?

Stop lying jonesdumb, nothing about this is settled you damn moron.

Aug 02, 2019

Not even close jonesdumb, not even close.


Yep. Settled science. What caused the simultaneous GWs and EM signature from the neutron star merger? Why did those signals match predictions? Including r-process nucleosynthesis? Show me the alternative theory (lol) that successfully predicted the observations. There aren't any.
White dwarves? Sirius B. Observed.
Pulsars? Observed.
Supernovae? Observed.
Young solar systems? Observed.

I'm not seeing the opposition to the claims in the scientific literature. Maybe you can point it out?

Stop lying jonesdumb, nothing about this is settled you damn moron.


Really? Where in the literature is it being questioned? What are the alternatives? Where are the papers? I'm seeing nothing.

Aug 02, 2019

Not even close jonesdumb, not even close.


Yep. Settled science. What caused the simultaneous blah, blah, blah....
White dwarves? Sirius B. Observed.
Pulsars? Observed.
Supernovae? Observed.
Young solar systems? Observed.

I'm not seeing the opposition to the claims in the scientific literature. Maybe you can point it out?

Stop lying jonesdumb, nothing about this is settled you damn moron.


Really? Where in the literature is it being questioned? What are the alternatives? Where are the papers? I'm seeing nothing.

None of that matters, it doesn't change the fact that this guesswork is speculative conjecture. Just because this pseudosci-fi nonsense is all that passes the gatekeepers by no means suggests the speculations are facts or are settled science. No real scientist would even consider this speculative conjecture as facts or settled, only morons would do so.

Aug 02, 2019
@cantthink69 claims 99.999% of all scientists are lying.

Great conspiracy theory. What do you do for an encore, gargle peanut butter? Deny and lie about global warming? Oh wait, you do that.

Aug 02, 2019
@cantthink69 claims 99.999% of all scientists are lying

That you think that 99.999% of all scientists are as moronic as yourself is quite offensive to real scientists.

Aug 02, 2019
None of that matters, it doesn't change the fact that this guesswork is speculative conjecture. Just because this pseudosci-fi nonsense is all that passes the gatekeepers by no means suggests the speculations are facts or are settled science. No real scientist would even consider this speculative conjecture as facts or settled, only morons would do so.


Yes it does matter. Neutron stars are an observed fact. As are white dwarves. And supernovae. Heck, we can use Chinese observations from 1054 of a supernova and detect the pulsar at its heart! As predicted. We can detect the gravitational waves from a neutron star merger. And the predicted EM radiation. We can observe a supernova in recent times, and detect the neutrinos from it.
So, which part of all this is not settled science? Sure, there are lots more things to learn about the processes at such phenomena at a smaller scale, but nobody is questioning the existence of these phenomena. Nobody scientifically literate, anyway.

yep
Aug 03, 2019
It's not settled science when so called Nuetron Stars produce jets which defy the theory of Nuetron stars, but let's sweep that under the rug and pretend we got it figured out because we are scientifically literate duh.

Aug 03, 2019
Gamma-Rays in the Thermosphere

The vacuous thermosphere
A layer in the Earth's atmosphere
Above the mesosphere
Below the exosphere
Within this layer of the atmosphere
Ultraviolet radiation causes
Photo ionization
Photo dissociation of molecules
Creating ions in the ionosphere
Begins at about 80km above sea level
Ends at 600km
Thermosphere temperatures increase with altitude
Due to energetic solar radiation

Diluted gas in this layer
Of such low density of gas
Is so close a vacuum, it makes no never mind
Rises to 2,500 °C during the day
With insufficient molecules to conduct heat
The temperature is below 0 °C

Aug 03, 2019
Our Sun in Gamma-Ray Production

Gamma-Rays in the Solar Atmosphere
The Photosphere
The visible surface of the Sun
The photosphere
The layer below which the Sun becomes opaque to visible light
Photons produced in this layer escape the sun
Through the transparent solar atmosphere above it
Become solar radiation
Sunlight
The change in opacity is due to the decreasing amount of H− ions
Which absorb visible light
The visible light we see is produced
As electrons react with hydrogen atoms
To produce H ions
The photosphere at 100s km thick
Is less opaque than air on Earth
Is not fully ionized
Leaving most of the hydrogen atoms intact

Aug 03, 2019
The Chromosphere

Sits above the photosphere
Extend 10,000 km into the corona above
The density of this chromosphere, is 10−4 times the photosphere

The moral of these solar gamma-rays of production
Is the solar atmosphere is infinitely larger
Than the earth's earthly atmosphere
Foreth both solar and earthly atmosphere absorb gamma-rays
The solar atmosphere being more advantaged
In that
It is more enabled in absorbing more gamma-rays
Than our puny atmosphere
For as both solar and earthly atmosphere
Drop in density
That both earthly and solar extremity of atmospheres
Are so close a vacuum it makes no never mind

As this is why these gamma- rays in the vacuum of space
From cocoons of neutron star collision
Are absorbed before they reach our mesosphere

Aug 03, 2019
It's not settled science when so called Nuetron Stars produce jets which defy the theory of Nuetron stars, but let's sweep that under the rug and pretend we got it figured out because we are scientifically literate duh.


The existence of neutron stars is not being questioned. One paper found possible jets around a highly magnetised NS, that don't fit current theory. However, that is still being looked at, and is not confirmed. And it would not call into question the existence of neutron stars, which are 100% proven, but the methods of jet formation at this particular NS.
I've yet to see anyone offer a scientifically valid alternative to neutron stars that match observation. Including those from the binary NS merger in 2017.
However, do feel free to scour the internet for such (within the scientific literature, of course). Fruitloop ideas from Velikovskian nutjobs do not count.

Aug 03, 2019
As this is why these gamma- rays in the vacuum of space
From cocoons of neutron star collision
Are absorbed before they reach our mesosphere


For once you are pretty much correct. Were the solar atmosphere not capable of lowering the energy of the gamma rays produced by nuclear fusion in the core, then those gammas would have fried the planet long since. Although the Earth's atmosphere absorbs the little gamma that does come from other processes on the solar 'surface', it would not withstand a full blown assault over 4.5 Ga.
Much of the visible light produced by the Sun started off as gammas from fusion. With the density of the gas and plasma in the inner Sun, this means it is highly collisional. This means the gammas keep encountering atoms which deflect and reduce the energy of them. By the time they leave the Sun, much has been reduced to the visible light that we see.

Aug 03, 2019
So, which part of all this is not settled science? Sure, there are lots more things to learn about the processes at such phenomena at a smaller scale, but nobody is questioning the existence of these phenomena.

I was unaware of the possibility of such stupidity, but there is jonesdumb reaching for the stars.

Aug 03, 2019
So, which part of all this is not settled science? Sure, there are lots more things to learn about the processes at such phenomena at a smaller scale, but nobody is questioning the existence of these phenomena.

I was unaware of the possibility of such stupidity, but there is jonesdumb reaching for the stars.


So answer the question. What is unknown, who is proposing alternatives, and where are they? You have yet to present anything other than word salad, and have not addressed the evidence proving the existence of these phenomena.

Aug 03, 2019
What is unknown

You acknowledged there are unknowns yourself, yet then claim it is all settled. The delusion of your moronics is astounding.
have not addressed the evidence proving the existence of these phenomena.

As usual you conflate an interpretation of an observation and the guesswork by plasma ignoramuses as proof they are correct.

Aug 03, 2019
What is unknown

You acknowledged there are unknowns yourself, yet then claim it is all settled. The delusion of your moronics is astounding.
have not addressed the evidence proving the existence of these phenomena.

As usual you conflate an interpretation of an observation and the guesswork by plasma ignoramuses as proof they are correct.


Yawn. More science-free word salad. I said there were things we still have to discover, but the existence of these phenomena is not in doubt and is not being questioned.

Aug 03, 2019
As usual you conflate an interpretation of an observation and the guesswork by plasma ignoramuses as proof they are correct.


Really? You haven't got any plasma physicists, though! Who are these plasma geniuses that are questioning the existence of supernovae, white dwarves, neutron stars, et al? Where is their stuff written up? This wouldn't include the idiot Scott, who would fry us all with fusion in the chromosphere, would it? And would accelerate electrons and ions in the solar wind in opposite directions! Are these the type of geniuses we are talking about? Or is it the idiot Thornhill? Who thinks Earth used to orbit Saturn! Lol.
I think we can safely ignore clowns like that, don't you?

Aug 03, 2019
What is unknown

You acknowledged there are unknowns yourself, yet then claim it is all settled. The delusion of your moronics is astounding.
have not addressed the evidence proving the existence of these phenomena.

As usual you conflate an interpretation of an observation and the guesswork by plasma ignoramuses as proof they are correct.


Yawn. More science-free word salad. I said there were things we still have to discover, but the existence of these phenomena is not in doubt and is not being questioned.

You claimed it is settled science moron, then in this next sentence say otherwise.
Then you rely on pseudosci-fi claptrap such as neutronium, strange matter, and dentist drill stars to claim the scientific high road. Your delusion is laughable.

Aug 03, 2019
You claimed it is settled science moron, then in this next sentence say otherwise.

Then you rely on pseudosci-fi claptrap such as neutronium, strange matter, and dentist drill stars to claim the scientific high road. Your delusion is laughable.


Wrong. Comprehension isn't your strong point, is it? We can add that to science. I said the existence of the objects is settled science. And, as far as I can see, nobody is questioning that. And you keep failing to show where it is being questioned. Nor have you addressed the evidence for these objects. As usual, your argument is based purely on faith. Learned from high priests who haven't got a clue about the subject.

Aug 03, 2019
So I finally understand what is meant by "settled science" as proffered by the acolytes. It not that it's correct, complete, valid, based in reality, or any other fact based approach, just that it has been voted to be right by their fellow pseudoscientists.
You go ahead and continue with your fanciful delusions, I will continue to live in the real world

Aug 03, 2019
So I finally understand what is meant by "settled science" as proffered by the acolytes. It not that it's correct, complete, valid, based in reality, or any other fact based approach, just that it has been voted to be right by their fellow pseudoscientists.
You go ahead and continue with your fanciful delusions, I will continue to live in the real world


Idiot. I've told you - there is plenty of evidence, and nobody who is scientifically literate is questioning it. Here's your chance. Have a go, woo boy. Explain the simultaneous detection of GWs and the EM signature. An EM signature that included a prediction, from real scientists, of r-process nucleosynthesis. Bloody clever these scientists, aren't they, woo boy? The GW signature matches a NS merger prediction. The EM signature matches predictions. Three separate facilities detect the GW. Multiple instruments observe the EM signature.
What have you got? Wait for it.,........."itz a cunspirassee!". Moron.

Aug 03, 2019
I will continue to live in the real world


Irony much? This would be a world where Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter, comets are rocks blasted off of planets by electric woo, and said electric woo is also responsible for the Grand Canyon and Valles Marineris! Among other things. If that is the real world, you are welcome to it. Sounds like la-la land to me.

Aug 03, 2019
I will continue to live in the real world


Irony much? This would be a world where Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter, comets are rocks blasted off of planets by electric woo, and said electric woo is also responsible for the Grand Canyon and Valles Marineris! Among other things. If that is the real world, you are welcome to it. Sounds like la-la land to me.

Given your proclivity to believe in such pseudoscientific claptrap like strange matter, faerie dust, 20k rpm stars, frozen-in fields, warping space-time among other such sci-fi fictions while eschewing known plasma properties and phenomena, I am not at all surprised.

Aug 03, 2019
I will continue to live in the real world


Irony much? This would be a world where Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter, comets are rocks blasted off of planets by electric woo, and said electric woo is also responsible for the Grand Canyon and Valles Marineris! Among other things. If that is the real world, you are welcome to it. Sounds like la-la land to me.

Given your proclivity to believe in such pseudoscientific claptrap like strange matter, faerie dust, 20k rpm stars, frozen-in fields, warping space-time among other such sci-fi fictions while eschewing known plasma properties and phenomena, I am not at all surprised.


Hmmm, and all the things I believe are backed up by evidence. Which you have failed to argue against. And you have no idea about plasma physics, and nor does anybody else in your cult.

Aug 03, 2019
all the things I believe are backed up by evidence.

All the things you believe are only backed up by interpretations of observations and pseudoscientific maths claptrap, there is zero proof that the objects which are claimed to be neutron stars are in fact your pseudosci-fi neutron stars. Or any of your others claims for that matter.

Aug 04, 2019
Gamma-rays in the Vacuum of Space
The moral of these solar gamma-rays of production
Is the solar atmosphere is infinitely larger
Than the earth's earthly atmosphere
Foreth both solar and earthly atmosphere absorb gamma-rays
The solar atmosphere
Is more enabled in absorbing more gamma-rays
Than our puny atmosphere
For as both solar and earthly atmosphere
Drop in density
That both earthly and solar extremity of atmospheres
Are so close a vacuum it makes no never mind

As this is why these gamma- rays in the vacuum of space
From cocoons of neutron star collision
Are absorbed before they reach our mesosphere

As can be seen
As has been confirmed
This solar vacuous atmosphere is absorbing all the solar gamma-rays
Foreth this one of the sources
Of energy
That
Our solar furnace keeps it furnace fires burning
Also
As this vacuum of space
Occupying atoms
Absorb gamma-rays
These neutron stars gamma-rays in collision
Are
Absorbed
Millions of Lys before they reach our Mesosphere

Aug 04, 2019
This Infinite Vacuum of Space

As this vacuum is almost as vacuous as this earthly solar atmosphere
Which
As our sun is producing more gamma-rays than our earthly atmosphere
In fact
It is only fairly recently
We have accepted gamma-ray production in our atmosphere
Foreth
These fleeting gamma-rays in this infinite vacuum that is space
In
Our cocoons of neutron stars in collision producing gamma-rays
The majority are absorbed in this cocoon before they see the light of day
Where those lucky few
That escape their nursery, their cocoon
As in GW170817
Are absorbed in this intervening dimension of Lys
Such that
When this dimension, 130milion Lys
All the gamma-rays
Have been absorbed by the atoms occupying this intervening vacuum
Foreth
For these poultry few gamma-rays we receive
Are not the gamma-rays that left GW170817s cocoon
For these are only shadows
Of those remaining in this cocoon
Unless we know exactly those that are in this cocoon
We cannot Extrapolate back to their Source

Aug 04, 2019
all the things I believe are backed up by evidence.

All the things you believe are only backed up by interpretations of observations and pseudoscientific maths claptrap, there is zero proof that the objects which are claimed to be neutron stars are in fact your pseudosci-fi neutron stars. Or any of your others claims for that matter.


Wrong. As I have detailed a number of times, and you have avoided a number of times. Why can't you answer the questions I asked re the NS merger? Give that a go, and then we can move on to the evidence for supernovae and white dwarves. You can't, can you (rhetorical)? You are scientifically illiterate and innumerate. Maths looks like magic to you, because you never got beyond a primary school level of understanding of it. This makes you feel inadequate and angry. Therefore, you have joined up with a bunch of similarly afflicted loons in a Velikovskian cult. Which is all very sad. For you. C'est la vie. Ho hum.

Aug 04, 2019
As this is why these gamma- rays in the vacuum of space
From cocoons of neutron star collision
Are absorbed before they reach our mesosphere


Wrong. Which is why we detected a GR signature from the merger. Get back to your knitting.

Aug 04, 2019
A very good summary of the predictions, and subsequent observations, of the neutron star merger;

https://www.princ...earchers

Amazing chaps, these scientists. Get a bunch of meaningless, magic numbers, say a few spells, chuck them into a computer, and see what comes out! Incredible how they manage to keep getting it right, as confirmed by subsequent observations. They'd have been burnt at the stake in the 17th century!

Aug 04, 2019
As I have detailed a number of times, and you have avoided a number of times. Why can't you answer the questions I asked re the NS merger?

There was an astrophysical electric discharge event which caused the EM signature, the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the aether caused by the high energy event.

Aug 04, 2019
As I have detailed a number of times, and you have avoided a number of times. Why can't you answer the questions I asked re the NS merger?

There was an astrophysical electric discharge event which caused the EM signature, the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the aether caused by the high energy event.


Hahahahahaha! Where is this written up? Were the predictions for the GW signal and the EM signal as accurate as that by the real scientists? Give up woo boy, science is not your thing!

Aug 04, 2019
Cantdrive85
As I have detailed a number of times, and you have avoided a number of times. Why can't you answer the questions I asked re the NS merger?

There was an astrophysical electric discharge event which caused the EM signature, the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the Aether caused by the high energy event.

What is?
"the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the Aether"
Or more exactly, cantdrive85
What is Aether?

p.s. cantdrive, has this got anything with Makita's dense Aether model?

Aug 04, 2019
As Usual, CG
As this is why these gamma- rays in the vacuum of space
From cocoons of neutron star collision
Are absorbed before they reach our mesosphere


Wrong. Which is why we detected a GR signature from the merger. Get back to your knitting.

You do not actually read what was said
For what you are about to receive, CG
Foreth
What was said
"For these poultry few gamma-rays we receive
Are not the gamma-rays that left GW170817s cocoon
For these are only shadows
Of those remaining in this cocoon
Unless we know exactly those that are in this cocoon
We cannot extrapolate back to their Source"
Which
Strangely, CG
CG> This means the gammas keep encountering atoms which deflect and reduce the energy of them

Foreth
The vacuum of space
Is chock a block full of atoms
Because
These atoms only occupy this vacuum, they are not part of this vacuum!

Aug 05, 2019
Cantdrive85
As I have detailed a number of times, and you have avoided a number of times. Why can't you answer the questions I asked re the NS merger?

There was an astrophysical electric discharge event which caused the EM signature, the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the Aether caused by the high energy event.

What is?
"the supposed GW was likely a distortion of the Aether"
Or more exactly, cantdrive85
What is Aether?

p.s. cantdrive, has this got anything with Makita's dense Aether model?

It is likely a sea of neutrinos.

Aug 05, 2019
Why two neutron stars? Why not a GRB from two black holes colliding?

Aug 05, 2019
Never mind.

Aug 05, 2019

It is likely a sea of neutrinos.


Lol. Neutrinos which have appeared from whence?

Aug 05, 2019
Why two neutron stars? Why not a GRB from two black holes colliding?


https://www.ligo....-sources

LIGO has detected both merging black holes and merging neutron stars, and the differences in their signals is quite striking. LIGO's first black hole merger detection produced a signal just two-tenths of a second long. The signal was converted into an audible sound we call a "chirp".
On the other end of the scale, the neutron star merger that LIGO detected in August 2017 generated a signal that was seen in LIGO's detectors for over 100 seconds.

Aug 05, 2019
This Infinite Vacuous Vacuum that is Space

Cantdrive85
"The supposed GW was likely a distortion of the Aether"
Or more exactly, cantdrive85
What is Aether?

Cantdrive, has this got anything with Makita's dense Aether model?
To which
Cantdrives thoughtly answer "It is likely a sea of neutrinos"

Foreth
The Aether of this vacuous vacuum of space - this Aether consists of neutrino's
Well, at least it's not the dense Aether model

Cantdrive
There's just one tiny weensy flaw in this idea
Protons, electrons, photons, neutrinos occupy this vacuum, they are not part of this vacuum

Foreth cantdrive, this vacuum has moved on in its descriptive, as space is vacuum
Which neutrinos only occupy as they flit through this vacuum, these neutrinos are not part of this vacuum
Because cantdrive
This vacuum is the infinite vacuous vacuum of space
How can we explain a vacuum, it is a complete empty void
Which
Does not exist as an entity of matter and energy
Foreth cantdrive, it is a vacuum!

Aug 05, 2019
Why two neutron stars? Why not a GRB from two black holes colliding?


https://www.ligo....-sources

LIGO has detected both merging black holes and merging neutron stars, and the differences in their signals is quite striking. LIGO's first black hole merger detection produced a signal just two-tenths of a second long. The signal was converted into an audible sound we call a "chirp".
On the other end of the scale, the neutron star merger that LIGO detected in August 2017 generated a signal that was seen in LIGO's detectors for over 100 seconds.


Right, so is the difference simply duration?

And, is the longer duration of neutron stars a function of the degenerate matter failing for lack of gravity and pressure in between as the neutron stars come together, and that process of ejecta taking longer than a black hole merger?

Or, could the difference simply be due to whether the collision is head on or an orbital decay?

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