415.26 parts per million: CO2 levels hit historic high

Carbon dioxide levels in Earth's atmosphere have hit record highs as man-made greehouse gas emissions continue to grow
Carbon dioxide levels in Earth's atmosphere have hit record highs as man-made greehouse gas emissions continue to grow

Scientists in the United States have detected the highest levels of planet-warming carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere since records began, sounding new alarm over the relentless rise of man-made greenhouse gas emissions.

The Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii, which has tracked atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950s, on Saturday morning detected 415.26 parts per million (ppm).

It was also the first time on record that the observatory measured a daily baseline above 415 ppm.

The last time Earth's atmosphere contained this much CO2 was more than three million years ago, when global sea levels were several metres higher and parts of Antarctica were blanketed in forest.

"It shows that we are not on track with protecting the climate at all. The number keeps rising and it's getting higher year after year," Wolfgang Lucht, from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK), told AFP.

"This number needs to stabilise."

But far from stabilising, levels of CO2—one of a trinity of greenhouse gases produced when fossil fuels are burnt—are climbing ever more rapidly.

Ralph Keeling, director of Scripps Institution of Oceanography's CO2 Programme, said the trend would probably continue throughout 2019—likely to be an El Nino year in which temperatures rise due to warmer ocean currents.

"The average growth rate is remaining on the high end. The increase from last year will probably be around three parts per million whereas the recent average has been 2.5 ppm," he said.

"Likely we're seeing the effect of mild El Nino conditions on top of ongoing fossil fuel use."

The levels of greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere from burning fossil fuels are growing every year
The levels of greenhouse gases in Earth's atmosphere from burning fossil fuels are growing every year

'Increasing at increasing rate'

The 2015 Paris Agreement calls on humanity to block the rise in Earth's temperature at "well below" 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 Fahrenheit) compared to preindustrial levels, and 1.5C if possible.

The last four years were the four hottest on record and, in spite of the Paris deal and increasing public awareness of the problem, mankind continues to break its own emissions records, year on year.

Earth's average surface temperature has already increased 1.0C since pre-industrial times due to man-made emissions.

"All of human history has been in a colder climate than now," said Lucht.

"Every time an engine runs we emit CO2 and it has to go somewhere. It doesn't miraculously disappear, it stays in the atmosphere.

"Despite the Paris climate agreement, despite all the speeches and the protests—we are not seeing that we are bending the curve yet," he added.

While there is some disagreement over what would constitute "safe" atmospheric CO2 levels, there is a broad consensus that 350 ppm—a level surpassed in the late 1980s—would stave off runaway global warming.

"350 ppm is a precautionary value because some of the consequences of being above 400 may still be evolving," Lucht said.

"But since we're not on track anyhow, any value that we can manage to stabilise at is a win."

The 415 ppm threshold was first surpassed earlier this month and has already risen further.

"I'm old enough to remember when passing 400ppm was a big deal," Gernot Wagner, a research associate at Harvard University, said on Twitter.

"Two years ago we hit 410ppm for the first time. By now, it's 415ppm. And oh, the increase is increasing at an increasing rate!"


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Global carbon dioxide growth in 2018 reached 4th highest on record

© 2019 AFP

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May 13, 2019
Looks like we are putting off ice ages for quite awhile, and the vegetation should grow better overall. With many more winners than losers.

May 13, 2019
totally, if you completely neglect the massive human, environmental and economic suffering as billions of people need to migrate to adapt to the new normal.

May 13, 2019
Historic when? Not peak Holocene. When it's peak Holocene let me know. You might also call if Northern Europe begins producing commercial wines. This was common until the (middle?) 13th century (when it became too cold to grow grapes in Scotland and Scandinavia, it's still too cold, btw).

totally, if you completely neglect the massive human, environmental and economic suffering as billions of people need to migrate to adapt to the new normal.


Have they not feet? Can they not walk? If they start now as children they'll be dead of old age before the waters rise.

May 13, 2019
If they start now as children they'll be dead of old age before the waters rise.
There's now king tide flooding in Miami Beach. Storm flooding is starting to affect NY City.

May 13, 2019
Who cares as long as we can drive our gas guzzlers and eat steak a couple of more decades until we die....Am I right?! /s

May 13, 2019
Who cares as long as we can drive our gas guzzlers and eat steak a couple of more decades until we die....Am I right?! /s
says checksin

If you can afford an EV then by all means buy one. But those of us who are struggling to make ends meet and can't afford such a luxury will have to wait until EVs have replaced the gas guzzlers or the gov forces us to buy EVs.
But don't forget that EVs have to be recharged either at your house/garage OR at a charging station. And guess where that station gets its electrical power from? The grid, of course. And that electricity flows through the grid from COAL, GAS OR OIL-POWERED GENERATORS.
It is very hard to escape fossil fuels.

May 13, 2019
Surveillance, except, you can. Renewable passes are widely available and cheap.
Many areas are transitioning their energy production to renewables simply because they becoming price competitive.
Additionally, a defeatist attitude gets us nowhere. A concerned attitude can lead us to push for, and achieve, change.

May 13, 2019
(I meant renewable credits, not renewable passes)

Shootist, you are missing the (relative and absolute) rapidity of change in greenhouse gases and therefore some of the effect, as well as the lag time of most of the effect.
Just because the Earth has never been hotter than X time doesn't bad getting warmer isn't a problem. Civilization isn't adapted to this temperature, and it will cost us trillions of dollars, not in millennia but starting right now for the foreseeable future, and hitting those many trillions numbers within a few decades.
Unprecedentedly fast change and other human actions are also causing a literal mass extinction. Over 50% of all life on Earth has died in the last 100 years. Millions of species, more than any but the EP, are almost certain to go extinct if we don't level out and start decreasing our emissions *immediately*.

May 13, 2019
Grandpa, see above. Does that look like more good than bad? You're also very wrong about the better growth of vegetation. Rapid change impedes evolution / species migration. Plus it's almost certainly going to be much drier overall, which you know, not great in the average for vegetation.

May 13, 2019
Surveillance, except, you can. Renewable passes are widely available and cheap.
Many areas are transitioning their energy production to renewables simply because they becoming price competitive.
Additionally, a defeatist attitude gets us nowhere. A concerned attitude can lead us to push for, and achieve, change.
says anonymous

Well, we are in the habit of recycling our plastics, metals, and other refuse to help in any way we can. But these two YouTube videos on recycling versus exporting recyclables is a bit disheartening. Humans waste so much.

https://www.youtu...-969W-D4

https://www.youtu...LilXLAIU

May 13, 2019
Great. CO2 has done only good things for Earth contrary to climate alarmist BS.

May 13, 2019
Grandpa, see above. Does that look like more good than bad? You're also very wrong about the better growth of vegetation. Rapid change impedes evolution / species migration. Plus it's almost certainly going to be much drier overall, which you know, not great in the average for vegetation.
The first link shows carbon dioxide levels over millions of years. The second shows the wild earth temperature swings when the carbon dioxide levels are low. Clearly humans are making the earth temperature more stable over time by increasing the carbon dioxide levels. https://www.googl...QUMeBVM:

https://www.googl...wYQ_AUID

May 13, 2019
The goal here is FUD, not remediation. Grampy is going to be shaking its fist at the sky when the tide comes in to drown it in sewage while suspended by a rope to its ankles.

Hide in your basement, @grampy. Ignore the water rising.

May 13, 2019
It's not getting better. It better start getting better soon, because otherwise the liar deniers are going to get a nasty surprise.

Meanwhile, the flooding in the US Midwest continues to worsen. Tens of millions of houses are being inundated. Where will these people go? To the coasts, of course. Not gonna find many liar deniers there after their houses get covered with sewage.

May 14, 2019
It's not getting better. It better start getting better soon, because otherwise the liar deniers are going to get a nasty surprise.

Meanwhile, the flooding in the US Midwest continues to worsen. Tens of millions of houses are being inundated. Where will these people go? To the coasts, of course. Not gonna find many liar deniers there after their houses get covered with sewage.
If one were to grow the human population at one percent per year for 5500 years the human population would be trillions of times higher than the 7 billion people now living. This goes to show there has always been terrible calamity a trillion times over. You are only predicting that there will always be calamity. Calamity will always happen. It is impossible to avoid.

May 14, 2019
Tell that to the three billion starving people with nuclear weapons, or to the sewage rope gangs.

Good luck with that.

May 14, 2019
If these scientists believed the propaganda they are spreading they would be just as focused on increases in atmospheric Methane, which is a very real, much more greenhouse gas, and its levels are rising due to un-remediated, continuous releases of methane from sloppy and frenetic oil drilling.

But, they can't critique the oil industry because we're running out of the stuff.

Under these circumstances, reducing fossil fuel consumption is more about mitigating and directing the loss associated with peak oil shortages than anything to do with global temperatures.

Peak oil will take care of fossil fuel emissions. All you need to do is wait. However, methane releases could increase astronomically as society panics to drill for more oil.

May 14, 2019
Tell that to the three billion starving people with nuclear weapons, or to the sewage rope gangs.


Things are better than ever before in human history. From Beverly Hills to Sub-saharan Africa.

May 14, 2019
Shootist wrote:

You might also call if Northern Europe begins producing commercial wines. This was common until the (middle?) 13th century (when it became too cold to grow grapes in Scotland and Scandinavia, it's still too cold, btw).


Why are you being so dishonest? Northern Europe NEVER produced wines on a footing comparable to Southern Europe, and it certainly wasn't "common". Those wines that were grown on a commercial scale came from the warmest, southernmost regions, like Southern England (max. 50 vineyards), where, indeed, wine grapes are cultivated today. Scotland and Scandinavia were never significant producers, and such limited evidence as exists (because there is very, very little source material about this subject) suggests that pre-little ice age wine production in Northern Europe occurred on a dwarfish scale, considering the approximate volume of wine imports from the south.

May 14, 2019
I dunno, record numbers of people displaced doesn't sound "better than ever before in human history."

Just sayin'.

May 14, 2019
If these scientists believed the propaganda they are spreading
JaxPavan

Stating the scientific facts is "propaganda"? To support what? Oh, don't tell me, let my guess; Communism?

they would be just as focused on increases in atmospheric Methane,
No, they wouldn't. That's because methane, although of concern, contributes significantly less to global warming than CO2 simply because there is so much less of it in the atmosphere than CO2. If you knew the first thing about the science you would have already known that.

May 14, 2019
Not to mention, considering as how the majority of the methane will come from permafrost and clathrates, how do you propose to stop it? Gonna put it all under Saran Wrap?

May 14, 2019
Lol, typical political idiot votes down "things are better than ever", what a loser.

May 14, 2019
I dunno, record numbers of people displaced doesn't sound "better than ever before in human history."


WTF are you talking about? You think 1950, 1980, 1810 was better?

May 14, 2019
I'm talking about record numbers of displaced people. WTF are you talking about?

May 14, 2019
Steven Pinker's books: Enlightenment Now, and The Better Nature Of Our Angels, documents how things are btter than ever before in human history. From: poverty to violence, from Beverly Hills to Narobi.

And there should be more articles explaining how increased CO2 and the mild warming is a good thing. Because fact is, CO2 is a GOOD THING, not a poison.

Heard an ad on radio the other day promoting something and it included a free "Carbon Dioxide" detector... lol,whoops, dopes.

May 14, 2019
So, nothing. Like usual from liar deniers.

May 14, 2019
So, nothing. Like usual from liar deniers.


WTF are you talking about meathead? I just gave you two (entertaining) sources of data on how things are better than ever.

May 14, 2019
With many more winners than losers.

Which part of "sea levels several meters higher" didn't you understand?
Are you aware who will be the losers in such a scenario? All coastal cities (which are a LOT of cities)

Do you want to pay for their relocation with your taxes? Do you have even an inkling of an idea what that will cost?

May 14, 2019
Which part of "sea levels several meters higher" didn't you understand?


We've been taught since childhood the sea is still rising from the last ice age. It will continue to rise, yes. We've known this for 50 years. 50 years since I first heard that fact and Miami is still above water. Banks still give out 30 year mortgages in Miami.


May 14, 2019
Wettest 12-month period in recorded history, U.S. just happened, April 2018-May 2019.

May 14, 2019
So, nothing. Like usual from liar deniers.


WTF are you talking about meathead? I just gave you two (entertaining) sources of data on how things are better than ever.
Better for who? Sure ain't good for all those people in the US Midwest who are being flooded out nor for those folks with waterfront property in Miami. Looks like they're getting fucked by all those stupid climate denier liars you been voting for.

Say hi to the sewage rope gang for me.

May 14, 2019
Just another step towards the complete Extinction of life on the planet Earth. it's a wonderful day isn't it climate denier comrades!

May 14, 2019
Old C Code wrote:
Because fact is, CO2 is a GOOD THING, not a poison.


Seriously, WTF? You do know that there have been studies demonstrating cognitive impairment when exposed to concentrations of 0.1% (1000ppm), and there is no doubt at all that it is lethal in high concentrations, roughly >7%, even when sufficient oxygen (or even plentiful oxygen) is available?

Now, atmospheric CO2 levels are not nearly at poisonous levels, but saying it's "not a poison" is as close to being an outright lie as you can get without telling an actual outright lie. Either you are dramatically misinformed, or you are dramatically misrepresenting the situation here.

We are, I gather, some ~150ppm away from concentrations that will start to measurably affect human productivity.

May 14, 2019
one percent per year for 5500 years the human population would be trillions of times higher than the 7 billion people now living. This goes to show there has always been terrible calamity a trillion times over
You're aware that western cultures have achieved zero growth?
Things are better than ever before in human history. From Beverly Hills to Sub-saharan Africa
"Whilst some schools of thought argue that poverty is the cause of many civil wars in sub-Saharan Africa, the world's most poor region, other schools argue that poverty is also a consequence of wars, hence the two-way relationship between poverty and war."

-I'll admit that things are pretty good at the moment in rwanda/burundi, but this is in the aftermath of a thorough bloodletting that left some 2M dead from machete wounds in the 90s. They still enjoy the fastest growth rates on the continent, and so should expect a repeat in a few gens.

What's 'better' about that?

May 14, 2019
There are only two solutions, @Otto. Either birth control or a lot of people get killed.

May 14, 2019
There are only two solutions, @Otto. Either birth control or a lot of people get killed.
"Women's rights are key. Fertility rates remain high where women's status is low. Fewer than one-fifth of the world's countries will account for nearly all of the world's population growth this century. Not coincidentally, those countries — the least developed nations in sub-Saharan Africa, south Asia, and elsewhere — are also where girls are less likely to attend school, where child marriage is common, and where women lack basic rights."

-Emancipating women has proven to be the best way of slowing growth. The older a woman gets the more dangerous pregnancy becomes. And women will resist bearing children if they doubt there will be resources to support them.

Over ONE BILLION ABORTIONS since roe v wade has been the single greatest factor in limiting growth. Fully empower women to make their own reproductive decisions and abortion becomes rare.

May 14, 2019
Yeah, I'm in favor of free birth control too, but it's looking a lot more like le grand guignol with all these right wingnuts cropping up all over the place. That didn't work out all that well last time it happened.

May 14, 2019
Steven Pinker's books: Enlightenment Now, and The Better Nature Of Our Angels, documents how things are btter than ever before in human history. From: poverty to violence, from Beverly Hills to Narobi
"Some of the best ways to reduce this problem of overpopulation, as Bill Gates and Steven Pinker (and others of course) have pointed out elsewhere are: increasing the literacy for women and a proper sex education for young families. This would lead to a stagnation of growth, as we have seen happen in the West."

"[Pinker] admits that world population continues to rocket up, but notes that the world's population growth rate peaked half a century ago, and has been steeply dropping since."

-in western countries that is. Elsewhere (in religion-dominated countries) they are growing at unsustainable rates.
https://www.cia.g...ank.html

-Note sub-sahara and the middle east.

May 14, 2019
Yeah, I'm in favor of free birth control too, but it's looking a lot more like le grand guignol with all these right wingnuts cropping up all over the place. That didn't work out all that well last time it happened.
I'm nor sure what you're saying. What are right wingnuts and what do they have to do with emancipating women in religion-dominated countries?

May 14, 2019
I see bad shit in the future, @Otto. Sure am glad I didn't have any kids I'd have to worry about.

May 14, 2019
Do you want to pay for their relocation with your taxes? Do you have even an inkling of an idea what that will cost?
Most coastal cities are based on obsolete and unsustainable and unfixable designs. Taxes are rising precipitously in the vain attempt to maintain infrastructure, causing businesses and individuals to leave at increasing rates.

Buildings, bridges, subways, utilities have finite lifetimes. It becomes easier and cheaper to abandon them and build anew elsewhere, which is exactly what is taking place at the moment. Coastal cities are being slowly abandoned whether the seas ever rise or not.

Rome fell not because of corruption but because it had become strategically obsolete and physically unsustainable. It wore itself out. The centers of power relocated north and east to areas which are now experiencing the same sorts of decrepitude and decline.

Nothing is forever and we should give up the notion that anything is.

May 14, 2019
I see bad shit in the future, @Otto. Sure am glad I didn't have any kids I'd have to worry about
Dont worry everything's under Control. Havent you been reading all of ottos wisdom? If this world is going to crumble then it will be according to Plan. No omelet w/o broken eggs yes?

But perhaps your excess bile is due to chemical imbalance. I suggest exercise, massive supplements, and hard drugs.

May 14, 2019
Nawwww, there's no "plan." It's every person for themselves, is the plan.

May 14, 2019
Better for who?


Better for everyone, except losers like you I suppose.

May 14, 2019
No, methane is a far greater Greenhouse danger than CO2. There happens to be less of it in the atmosphere, for now. But, there is quite a bit under the rock where we drill for oil. Probably enough to actually do what they say CO2 can do if it were released over a few years. In the ocean and up in the arctic it is mostly not feasible to staunch the releases that are created by drilling.

The propaganda will be to blame this Methane on melting ice and Tundra. . .

However, if you come to the Arctic you will see that Methane levels rise near villages the further north you go from any melting Tundra, and the closer you come to exploratory drilling. Ice that you can poke a hole in and light fires. Places where the sea is seething from methane escaping from places we drilled.

May 14, 2019
quote:
"Da Schneib

There are only two solutions, @Otto. Either birth control or a lot of people get killed."

Ya forgot at least one very viable other space colonies... I'm okay with the killing as long as your first on the list and I'm not on that list, or anyone I care about is either.

Why is it that the "enlightened" and morally superior always choose mass killing as a solution to world problems.

Not a denier but that sentence is repulsive and you should open your mind to other solutions. Quit hating all humanity because no more than 10% of the population is F'ing with us every chance they get. There is plenty of good in humanity and intelligence and good will, its just that most of us don't have the time or money cause that 1% needs to 1% every chance they get. If wealth was more evenly distributed you would see a green movement that would be multiples of what we currently have cause people would have the time and money to buy the EV's and solar panels.

May 14, 2019
BRILLIANT, measure global warming on the largest chain of volcanoes on earth

Large chains of volcano continuously erupt global warming gases
Mauna Loa is one of five volcanoes that form the Island of Hawaii in the U.S. state of Hawaiʻi in the Pacific Ocean. The largest subaerial volcano in both mass and volume, Mauna Loa has historically been considered the largest volcano on Earth

Mauna Loa has probably been erupting for at least 700,000 years, and may have emerged above sea level about 400,000 years ago
Mauna Loa's most recent eruption occurred from March 24 to April 15, 1984

These volcanos are continually erupting on land and under sea
Is it any coincidence a global warming station is sited on the largest chain of volcanoes on earth?

Enjoy your Mauna Loa data; it is not what it might seem to be

May 14, 2019
Good, now we have more rain for greater crop growth over a longer growing season, how bad can this get?

May 14, 2019
Good, now we have more rain for greater crop growth over a longer growing season, how bad can this get?


Your ignorance knows no bounds.

May 14, 2019
Good, now we have more rain for greater crop growth over a longer growing season,

-with increase frequency of droughts, heatwaves, hurricanes, floads, famines and warts and all.

May 14, 2019
@grandpa.
Calamity will always happen. It is impossible to avoid.
Natural calamities happened; so we invented ways of preventing/minimising them; ie: Vaccination against plague diseases; Birth Control to slow population growth; United Nations to avert World Wars; Pesticides/Herbicides against plague/agricultural etc insects/weeds; and Weather Forecasting/Building Codes for minimising cyclone/tornado/hurricane etc damage (which latter is, due to CO2-exacerbated climate change, now becoming too much to recover from before the next one hits).

Destroying/Poisoning our own 'nest' by CO2 warming will make all those efforts/inventions a wasted effort because when transition to the new normal comes it will be back to 'survival mode' and possibly extinction for 'free range species' (including much of humanity).

Anyway, we have many economic, health and resource sustainability reasons to go to a mix of 25% gas and 75% renewables 'mix' for our energy/electricity needs. :)

May 14, 2019
Ya forgot at least one very viable other space colonies...
Not for billions of people they aren't. We just don't have the technical chops for it.

Why is it that the "enlightened" and morally superior always choose mass killing as a solution to world problems.

Not a denier but that sentence is repulsive and you should open your mind to other solutions.
I'm very open to other solutions; I just don't see anyone working toward them, and I see a lot of people working against them. I'm not advocating it; I just think it's inevitable. Too many people, and some of them are going to start starving, and some of them have nukes. This is gonna get really ugly.

Malthusian solutions tend to get like that.
[contd]

May 14, 2019
Why is it that the "enlightened" and morally superior always choose mass killing as a solution to world problems.
It's not a solution any sane person would choose. It's a fate. It's the inevitable result of too many people and not enough resources.

Quit hating all humanity because no more than 10% of the population is F'ing with us every chance they get.
I ain't hating; I just think the way things are going it's inevitable. And deeply scary. I surely do hope it doesn't happen; but hungry people won't care.

What I'm saying is everyone ought to be working on it, and we're not.

I'm pretty insulted you accused me of advocating mass killing.

If your next post is like this, you'll be on my ignore list immediately. I see little point in arguing over something I didn't say.

May 14, 2019
Finally, @evil, how come you're against birth control?

May 14, 2019
Looks like we are putting off ice ages for quite awhile, and the vegetation should grow better overall. With many more winners than losers.
As long as you don't live on a floodplain, a tornado zone, or a place that doesn't get wild weather, you should be a winner. Now all you have to do is find that spot, if you can.

May 14, 2019
I found mine. I'm on top of a hill, sea level rise won't get me until after I'm dead, I have no septic tank, and I have the most efficient furnace and water heater I could get. I don't drive much, I don't have to put garbage out more than every other week if that, and I recycle everything I can. I don't vote for liar deniers, and I don't give them my money. There's really nothing much else I can do.

May 14, 2019
Let's all applaud the success of the anti-global warming goon squad. The 415 PPM is just the beginning of the exponential increase in CO2 levels that should continue way past the 1200 PPM range by 2050.

Conrad Goon Squad climate deniers, raise a glass and toast your success in the destruction of Earth!

May 14, 2019
@howhot, they'll be celebrating the deaths of billions of brown people. The Malthusian solution.

May 15, 2019
All hail Hydra! @Da Schneib. It really is like we are in an episode of "Agents of SHIELD". And the morons have won! I read somewhere it was 84 degrees inside the arctic circle today, a heat dome undulation not ever seen before. It's so nuts not to panic about this stuff.

May 15, 2019
Good, now we have more rain for greater crop growth over a longer growing season, how bad can this get?

Your ignorance knows no bounds.


Nothing ignorant here except your childish demeanor. Go back to Astronomy you bonehead.

May 15, 2019
Miami is not underwater, and banks continue to give out 30 year mortgages there.

You climate alarmists are truly ignorant fools.

May 15, 2019
Meanwhile, on Earth: https://phys.org/...nks.html

How long do you figure to keep lying?

May 15, 2019
https://phys.org/...nks.html

$3 billion worth of lying, You're worse than the government.

May 15, 2019
Miami is not underwater, and banks continue to give out 30 year mortgages there.

You climate alarmists are truly ignorant fools.
says Old_C_C

You are correct. The last time that the streets of downtown Miami were flooded was in 2017 after a hurricane, I think it was. Hurricanes are normal and natural weather. There is no way to stop them. The same with tornadoes and flash floods.
Fools like Da Schneibo think that CO2 causes hurricanes, tornadoes and floods. What an idiot he is. It is nutcases like Da Schneibo who will someday cause civil unrest and panic to happen with all his doom and gloom rhetoric.
It's a good thing that Da Schneibo has no children. He is probably sterile anyway.

May 15, 2019
Let's all applaud the success of the anti-global warming goon squad. The 415 PPM is just the beginning of the exponential increase in CO2 levels that should continue way past the 1200 PPM range by 2050.

Conrad Goon Squad climate deniers, raise a glass and toast your success in the destruction of Earth!
says howhot3

Yessuh The End Times will be here soon. Right now it is uncertain how it will happen, howhot3. It could be a giant asteroid dropping down on Da Schneibo's neighborhood and squashing him in his house on the hill that he claims has no septic tank. Who knows? Maybe Da Schneibo stays constipated so that he doesn't need one, or he has a town sewer line by his house.
But one thing's for sure. Old Da Schneibo sounds bigoted against "brown" people. He is one of those liberals who wants all the illegal immigrants to be allowed into the US, only not on Da Schneibo's street/neighborhood. You know the type - NIMBY they're called.

May 15, 2019
there's no "plan." It's every person for themselves, is the plan
If there were no Plan there would be no civilization. Humanity would be subsisting in small pockets amidst vast stretches of desertified, radioactive wasteland.

Nukes were inevitable. Pretty simple tech. What would the world be like if 19th century despots and theocracies had gotten these weapons?

The world was CHANGED to accommodate this inevitability. A tripartite superpower dominance was created within only a few gens to allow this tech, and all such world-destroying tech, to emerge in the safest, most stable environment possible.

And no, this extremely improbable and unnatural development COULD NOT have been the chance result of mistakes and blunders and dumb luck.

It was preconceived, designed. Wars were engineered, staged, choreographed, directed, and managed to make it happen.

There is no other explanation.

And understanding this, we can see that it has been happening throughout human history.

May 15, 2019
The last time that the streets of downtown Miami were flooded was in 2017 after a hurricane, I think it was. Hurricanes are normal and natural weather. There is no way to stop them.
........no way to stop them? Wahddaya mean there's no way to stop them?

We know for a fact when Katrina hit New Orleans that then President George Bush used an aircraft carrier to steer that hurricane all the way across the Gulf of Mexico right to the shores of that city, this must be true because I heard this on a snippet of the View talk show & all the talking head women nodded their heads in agreement.

Because we now know aircraft carriers can be used to steer hurricanes we therefore have the capability to prevent landfall of ANY such weather system, but Trump is just so racist that as Commander in Chief he has been refusing to employ such weather control where certain racial populations are living.

May 15, 2019
Either birth control or a lot of people get killed
Not a denier but that sentence is repulsive and you should open your mind to other solutions
Unfortunately it's the truth and ignoring it wont make it go away. Humans have always suffered from acute overgrowth. The only solution to establish enduring civilization was to outgrow obsolete cultures and destroy them; hence western religion.

Human tropical animals are compelled to mate. Emancipating women means giving them the opportunity to use contraceptives and to abort their mistakes.
There is plenty of good in humanity and intelligence and good will, its just that most of us don't have the time or money cause that 1% needs to 1% every chance they get
-which makes no sense.
If wealth was more evenly distributed
-Western culture has achieved zero growth. This gives fundys and orthos and Islamists more opportunity to maximize their growth. And they are.

What's YOUR solution to this repulsive dilemma?

May 15, 2019
Miami is not underwater, and banks continue to give out 30 year mortgages there
Their job is to give out money. Sounds like another bubble to me.
We know for a fact when Katrina hit New Orleans that then President George Bush used an aircraft carrier to steer that hurricane all the way across the Gulf of Mexico right to the shores of that city
Ahahaahaaaa that's funny I should unblock this looney troll more often.

May 15, 2019
Strange many people just seem to think of everything but the obvious.

Patents, Intellectual Property are the biggest reasons why green tech is not being adopted at the rate it should be. Very nasty people are gouging everyone as much as possible even in cases where the green way is cheaper than the old way but for some reason you get charged more for it. There are some seriously psychopathic people (You know the ones who like being in front of cameras for the good they do) who are putting profits and power over the survival of the species.

Any and all IP and patents regarding recycling, power storage, power generation, green house gases sequestering needs to have a moratorium put on them for the next 20 years to get over this crisis.

All food industry products can no longer use non-biodegradable plastics, all bioplastics must completely biodegrade in 1 year (so no over production of this plastic no where houses fill with plastic for 10 years)...

May 15, 2019
*All devices that use batteries must be owner replaceable
*All mobile phones must have at least security patches for 10 years so we don't have to throw away perfectly running hardware cause it doesn't have the new wizbang go faster stripes
*All spammers and their hosting companies need to be charged a climate change tax considering router, switches, gateways ... use more electricity when they are processing stuff then when they are not and spam makes up a very significant portion of internet traffic so they should pay.
*Lab/Vat grown meat, Impossible foods, no more industrial farming
*Companies should be fined for planned obsolescence... fined like if you made 1 billion then you get fined 1 billion... it does not pay to break the rules, you will loose.

if I had more time I would definitely go on.

May 15, 2019
I see bad shit in the future, @Otto. Sure am glad I didn't have any kids I'd have to worry about
Here this oughtta cheer you up.

"MAY 10, 2019
Jared Diamond: There's a 49 Percent Chance the World As We Know It Will End by 2050
"Jared Diamond's new book, Upheaval, addresses itself to a world very obviously in crisis, and tries to lift some lessons for what do about it from the distant past. In that way, it's not so different from all the other books that have made the UCLA geographer a sort of don of "big think" history and a perennial favorite of people like Steven Pinker and Bill Gates."

-Better than 12 years eh? We'll be dead by then as well.

May 15, 2019
I dunno this is pretty omimous

"On Tuesday, photos began to emerge online of a new, Starship-like vehicle being built in an industrial park near Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Later, SpaceX founder Elon Musk confirmed that the company will develop a Starship prototype in Florida to parallel work being done in South Texas.

"Both sites will make many Starships," Musk shared on Twitter. "This is a competition to see which location is most effective. Answer might be both."

-Whats the rush? Everybodys building transports all of a sudden... ?

May 15, 2019
Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear

Far away from these city fumes
these cities where the air is thick and smoggy
smoggy with this stench of carbonization
of burning tyres in back street poverty
of dirty grimy back street diners
where stench of cheap food and rotting fish fouls these side walks
feeding verminous rats and ally cats throughout the night
whereas in these rich banking centres where affluence abounds
sleek expansive glass walled departments stores line these streets
wlth expensive purring four wheeled saloons fill this air with poisonous fumes

These Anomalies
these cities carbonised atmosphere is cleaner healthier with lower carbon dioxide
where as
Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear
For this is where the largest oldest active chained volcanos on this earth spewing out this highest rate of CO2 on earth

Mauna Loa, where this crystal clear air is higher in CO2, far away from these cities filthy air that is lower in CO2 than Mauna Loa

May 15, 2019
Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear

For Mauna Loa
hit this record high, found nowhere else on this earth
415.26 parts per million, CO2 levels hits this historic high
found
Only on Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear

May 15, 2019
Whats the rush? Everybodys building transports all of a sudden... ?


Huh, you're spooky but don't get it?

Elon wants to get to Mars as soon as possible. You don't know why? It's the pristine cool clear CO2 that has not yet been polluted, unlike that 0.04% on Earth? Just think how nice it would be to live in an atmosphere of 95% CO2 that has not yet been polluted by mankind

May 15, 2019
Idiot granville quotes Mauna Loa as the largest volcano on Earth (correct) then twists that into a claim that it is part of the largest chain of volcanos on Earth, which it is not. It's a volcano that grew over an isolated hotspot, and is no where close to the 'Ring of Fire' which is the longest chain of volcanic mountains. Appealing to ignorance. "BRILLIANT, measure global warming on the largest chain of volcanoes on earth

Large chains of volcano continuously erupt global warming gases"

May 15, 2019
@granville583762
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit.

@granville, volcanic emissions of CO2 and SO2/particulates have a neutral effect (CO2 adds to greenhouse effect warming; whereas SO2/particulates adds to cooling effect). In any case, volcanic sources of CO2 have been part of the Earth's CO2 cycle forever! That is not the problem in long-term; the real problem is NOW that we are burning/releasing the long-ago STORED Coal/CO2 and so ADDING MORE of it ON TOP OF that previous longstanding volcanic part of the CO2 cycle!

@S_E_U, it's not that CO2 "causes" hurricanes/cyclones/storms/droughts etc, it's that the increasing CO2-mediated warming is making them MORE EXTREME, more widespread, more frequent, more 'back-to-back' etc than ever before. Even if you are responding to your 'enemies' here, please don't stoop to your own straw men when arguing against the facts being exposed to you practically daily by the news reports now and over recent years.

Good luck to us all.

May 15, 2019
Poor TrollBane
TrollBane> granville quotes Mauna Loa as the largest volcano on Earth, correct then twists into a claim is part the largest chain of volcanos on Earth, it is not It's a volcano that grew over an isolated hotspot and is nowhere close to the Ring of Fire which is the longest chain of volcanic mountains Appealing to ignorance BRILLIANT measure global warming on the largest chain of volcanoes on earth
Large chains of volcano continuously erupt global warming gases

Poor TrollBane has got his Post Truths in a Twist

p.s. TrollBane for your post truths, aren't we, what with volcanoes, chains of volcanoes, this air above these practically extinct volcanoes is crystal clear

Crystal clear atmosphere cannot contain more CO2 than these industrial towns, TrollBane
or
Had you not considered this post truth, TrollBane
If you want to truthly believe these post truths, measure this CO2 in these industrial atmospheres
Not this Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear

May 15, 2019
The troll talking of 'Post Truths' posts word salad and irrelevant meanderings to distract from its nonsense.

May 15, 2019
This 0.03% Atmospheric CO2
RealityCheck> CO2 have been part of the Earth's CO2 cycle forever! That is not the problem in long-term

RealityCheck, we all know CO2 is not a long term problem
But, "they" RealityCheck, do not need to know it is not a problem

This little fact that CO2 is not a problem is an open secret; just do not tell anyone, RealityCheck

May 15, 2019
TrollianTrollBane
The troll talking of 'Post Truths' posts word salad and irrelevant meanderings to distract from its nonsense.

TrollianTrollBane, as you consider this crystal clear air of Mauna Loa and how it comes to be the most polluted air under your Bridge, TrollianTrollBane for as you recover from the ravages of finrot eating at this obsessionalith carbon dioxide quandary, a molecular gas that is 100% essential for all life on this earth
as you sit under your bridge, that even trollians require this essential atmospheric gas for without it.
All earthly life ceases forthwith, TrollianTrollBane


May 15, 2019
@granville583762.
This 0.03% Atmospheric CO2
RealityCheck> CO2 have been part of the Earth's CO2 cycle forever! That is not the problem in long-term

RealityCheck, we all know CO2 is not a long term problem
But, "they" RealityCheck, do not need to know it is not a problem

This little fact that CO2 is not a problem is an open secret; just do not tell anyone, RealityCheck
Is that supposed to be some sort of attempt at humour, granville? If so, it's not funny. The climate change problems we face is not suitable subject for humor, let alone misleading attempts at misrepresenting what I posted. Please don't do this sort of thing if you want to be taken seriously, mate.

To be clear:

- Volcanic CO2 emissions are not a longterm problem because they were already part of Earth's climate system/cycles forever.

- What IS a problem is burning/releasing vast amounts of previously-stored Coal/CO2 adding to pre-industrial revolution CO2 levels.

No joke, mate.

May 15, 2019
RealityCheck

RealityCheck, there is an alternative to burning chemicals to produce energy
this "burning chemicals" is just a short term energy source
as this new energy source comes online
everyone will say, what took us so long
as all these problems with "burning chemicals" will cease forthwith
as any carbon dioxide increase will be completely natural
and therefore, nothing for us to worry unduly, RealityCheck

May 15, 2019
RealityCheck

For RealityCheck, we have another problem
as you have seen SEUs video, burning plastic and paper
because, RealityCheck
it is not possible to separate the plastic and paper
RealityCheck, you have two choices
burn it or landfill it
neither are satisfactory
as this new energy source comes online
these mundane irresolvable problems are our main concern
JUST WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR WASTE, RealityCheck
RealityCheck, this is the real problem we are actually facing!

May 15, 2019
@S_E_U, it's not that CO2 "causes" hurricanes/cyclones/storms/droughts etc, it's that the increasing CO2-mediated warming is making them MORE EXTREME, more widespread, more frequent, more 'back-to-back' etc than ever before. Even if you are responding to your 'enemies' here, please don't stoop to your own straw men when arguing against the facts being exposed to you practically daily by the news reports now and over recent years.

Good luck to us all.
says RC

More frequent hurricanes, you say? That would be true if hurricanes formed every other day, week or month - but you see - the RIGHT CONDITIONS have to happen in order that a hurricane can form and that is usually where and when the winds that form the hurricane are coming off from the West coast of Africa, headed toward the Caribbean or the US. As it churns toward wherever, the warm moist air from the Atlantic Ocean feeds the winds as they spin around and strengthen.
Enemies? RC, I have no 'enemies' in physorg.

May 15, 2019
So just to make it clear to every one what global warming is, the CO2 traps incoming sunlight and reflects infrared radiation back towards the Earth causing a greenhouse effect. just like when you walk into a greenhouse it's warm because the sunlight is trapped in the he can't escape like an insulating blanket. planet Earth is doing the same thing. As CO2 increases the equivalent is the insulation layer is thicker in more heat is trapped. So when the planet heats up two-thirds of the planet is water a good portion of that heat goes into the evaporation of water so you will see large amounts of rain hit in many areas and that we are seeing. We are also seeing modifications to the upper atmosphere causing heat bubbles undulation in the jet stream which are affecting our weather patterns. Those are just simple facts. Hello the Trumpian types would love to dismiss this is intellectual BS. The problem is life cannot handle these extremes that we're putting it into. Extinction is the result.

May 16, 2019
Essentially correct. The glass in a greenhouse permits the transmission of light but not of infrared. Placed in the sunlight, the light can get in, but once light is absorbed inside it becomes heat and the heat cannot get out, by convection, conduction, or radiation.

May 16, 2019
When all this world befalls this next ice age

As our toms grow fat and juicy
for the glass in their greenhouse permits the transmission of light but not of infrared
Likened to our 0.03% CO2

As these king penguins circle in thousands for to keep warm on their desolate icy nurseries
where these frigid temperatures simmer at a mild -30 Celsius -60 Celsius in this wind chill
Come this cyclic event when all the world befalls the next ice age

This 0.03% CO2 has no effect holding back this tide of ice
this King Canute of CO2 fails to hold back this tide of ice
this tide of is keeps it icy grip on this earth these 100 thousand years
till this earths planetary gyroscopic epicycles continue their cycles
To returneth this earth back to this warm cycle we inhabit presently

For as this cycle is presently entering this unstoppable cyclic ice age
This 0.03% has no earthly effect holding in this earthly solar heat cometh this coming ice age

As these king penguins on their icy nurseries testify

May 16, 2019
This pristine crystal clear air

For where do you on this earth measure this earthly compositional atmospheric composition
as in these dirty smoggy cities
or Mauna Loa, where this air is crystal and clear
in this Atlantic ocean 1000s of miles from these dirty smoggy cities
or in this Gobi desert where only sand granules blow
for over Mauna Loa these volcanoes stench this air with this filthy CO2
or over this Atlantic ocean where huge quantise of this CO2 takes place
or over these sandy deserts where these Arabian residents mine this flowing sticky tar that floweth eternally
foreth these desolate deserts for time internal hath seeped this filthy CO2 eternally in to this atmosphere
as RealityCheck, where do you measure this earthly CO2 content percentage
as not in our filthy grimy smog ridden towns and cities
Wherever you roam on this earth CO2 abounds in huge quantities

RealityCheck, separate this 0.041526% from these filthy cities percentage, as this is the percentage increase!

May 16, 2019
@grexy is now a climate denier.

Trolls don't care. They just spread FUD.

May 16, 2019
Enemies? RC, I have no 'enemies' in physorg
FOR NEW VISITORS
Public service announcement...

Physorg has a block function that can be used to hide comments by flooding loonies, trolls, and vandals. For pleasant and rewarding reading and participation the following should be blocked (partial list):
Surveillance_egg_unit (aka obamasocks, pussycat_eyes, racistblackguy, jewsrule, russkiye, etc)
Benni
Granville
Realitycheck
Rrwillsj

-These people are only here to show off their inane skills at baiting people, and to trash and discredit this site. They will never participate in meaningful discussion. The only reason to engage with them at all is for research purposes.

Best just to block them and be done with it.

May 16, 2019
Spare not one inky drop of computer ink

TrollianGhostlyOtto, comment, comment then comment yet again!
Never in this web has granville put TrollianGhostlyOtto on this ignore
and, TrollianGhostlyOtto
never has granville told TrollianGhostlyOtto to cease commentating
in fact the reverse, TrollianGhostlyOtto
TrollianGhostlyOtto, comment to your heart's content
comment until you use all that last computer ink that exists in your inky keyboard
spare not one inky drop of computer ink, TrollianGhostlyOtto
for to comment is why phys.org has kindly presented these articles pacifically for commentating
dear TrollianGhostlyOtto, if we do not comment on phys.org
Commentating on these Science articles will cease

p.s. consequently TrollianGhostlyOtto you will no longer have these forums for your nightly discussions, courtesy of phys.org!

May 16, 2019
We have a solution to polution !

https://www.daily...ons.html

May 16, 2019
LOL ! howhotnot has no idea of what AGW theory even is !

''So just to make it clear to every one what global warming is, the CO2 traps incoming sunlight and reflects infrared radiation back towards the Earth causing a greenhouse effect. just like when you walk into a greenhouse it's warm because the sunlight is trapped in the he can't escape like an insulating blanket. planet Earth is doing the same thing.''

this ain't very good either
'' The glass in a greenhouse permits the transmission of light but not of infrared. Placed in the sunlight, the light can get in, but once light is absorbed inside it becomes heat and the heat cannot get out, by convection, conduction, or radiation.''

May 16, 2019
GhostlyOtto, your interesting insight under your bridge
GhostlyOtto> These people are only here to show off their inane skills at baiting people, and to trash and discredit this site. They will never participate in meaningful discussion. The only reason to engage with them at all is for research purposes

Interesting use of phrase GhostlyOtto: The only reason to engage with them at all is for research purposes
Thank you GhostlyOtto, your criticisms and accolades are duly noted
for to engage socially is a skill, as to engage for research is a skill
as these two, socially and research as often as not merge into one as to being indistinguishable

GhostlyOtto, this pyhs.org is here, it has arrived, lively, energetic and vibrant due in part to your good self GhostlyOtto, so keep up these excessive of your commentaries GhostlyOtto

Your bridge, your dear bridge TrollianGhostlyOtto, is well earned and well deserved

May 16, 2019
dear TrollianGhostlyOtto, if we do not comment on phys.org
Commentating on these Science articles will cease
But people like you like to dump their trash here. This is why many sites like sciencedaily eliminated the comments section. And its why sites like physforums wont let you dump your garbage there.

May 16, 2019
@TheGhostofOtto1923.

I see you include me in your 'list'. :)

Unfortunately, I don't have the 'luxury' of employing the blocking function (the clue as to why is in my username); ie, it would be impossible to carry out impartially/objectively the reality checking function if I didn't read/respond to others' posts as indicated. I even recall in the past reading/responding to some of your posts which were at the time no less 'ignorable' than the posts of those (other than myself, of course) on your 'list'.

Anyhow, unless you/other readers feel compelled (by duty to science) to constructively/patiently/politely engage others in the interests of providing fair and polite counterarguments to (even the most ignorant/trolling) comments which you feel ought to be corrected without personal rancour, then by all means you CAN indulge in the selfish 'luxury' of blocking anyone whom you feel you are powerless to politely persuade to your view according to the science/logics facts. :)

May 17, 2019
theghostofotto1923 aka Schithead Nazi aka SpookyOtto1923 has been REPORTED multiple times for ABUSIVE, INAPPROPRIATE and REPULSIVE LANGUAGE, and perhaps even a bit of spamming also.
Advertising the names of other User Names, past or present is a cowardly act since those folks may not be present in this phorum, and therefore cannot defend themselves from that maniacal tirade for which Otto is now known to all who comment in physorg. Such an imperious behaviour is loathsome to all but the most callous of souls.

I suggest that everyone with any amount of decency should block Otto to avoid reading his filth and putrid hatred of humanity, babies and General Relativity.

May 17, 2019
As GhostlyOtto wanders lonely as a cloud
SEU> I suggest that everyone with any amount of decency should block Otto

SEU, for in his cloud, GhostlyOtto ignores all but himself in his cloud
as all conversely ignores dear GhostlyOtto
so, dear GhostlyOtto, as lonely as a cloud
Takes to his bridge, dear TrollianGhostlyOtto takes solace under his bridge as lonely as a cloud

May 17, 2019
In honour of Otto, GhostlyOtto, dear TrollianGhostlyOtto

I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud by William Wordsworth
I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company:
I gazed—and gazed—but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.

TrollianGhostlyOtto takes solace under his bridge as lonely as a cloud

May 17, 2019
so throwing tantrums and crying , adding taxes and big brother ARE NOT GOING TO LOWER co2 which will contiue to rise no matter what. So whats the point ?

meanwhile
planting progress as of May 12 in Illinois was the SLOWEST in records back to 1979.

Here are the top 5 slowest years on May 12 in Illinois:
1) 2019 - 11%
2) 2009 - 13%
3) 2013 - 17%
4) 1993 - 20%
5) 1995 - 30%

The 1979-2018 average for the date is 70%.


May 17, 2019
This Carbon Tax
snoosebaum> so throwing tantrums and crying , adding taxes and big brother ARE NOT GOING TO LOWER co2 which will continue to rise no matter what. So whats the point ?

When Fusion comes on line
When all Cars, Lorries, Buses, Trains, Planes, Homes, Factories are powered electrically
When all power is electricity
Powered by fusion
There will still be Carbon taxes
because
The Sheriff of Nottingham with his henchmen will be calling
for his Global Warming Taxes
This carbon tax, snoosebaum so dig deep till it hurts
for
When this Fusion comes on line snoosebaum, there will be this Fusion Tax

For snoosebaum, if it is not this tax it will simply be another tax to pay!

May 17, 2019
Electric vehicles produce more CO2 emissions & emit 11% to 28% more than their diesel counterparts, when CO2 emissions are linked to the production of batteries and coal still plays an important role with electric vehicles according to the Ifo Institute in Munich. Mining and processing lithium, cobalt, and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery represents between 11 and 15 tons of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometers, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer. The CO2 produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in. When these factors are added in, each Tesla emits 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer, WHICH IS MORE than a comparable diesel vehicle & equal to gas powered vehicles. German researchers, also take issue with the fact that European officials view electric vehicles as zero-emission.

May 17, 2019
Electric vehicles produce more CO2 emissions & emit 11% to 28% more than their diesel counterparts, when CO2 emissions are linked to the production of batteries and coal still plays an important role with electric vehicles according to the Ifo Institute in Munich. Mining and processing lithium, cobalt, and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery represents between 11 and 15 tons of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometers, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer. The CO2 produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in. When these factors are added in, each Tesla emits 156 to 180 grams of CO2 per kilometer, WHICH IS MORE than a comparable diesel vehicle & equal to gas powered vehicles. German researchers, also take issue with the fact that European officials view electric vehicles as zero-emission.
.........shhhhhh, not so loud.

May 17, 2019
GVille , yes , ' road tax ' incl a bazillion for monitoring . I calculated that going all ev would mean USA would have to expand power capacity 50 % not incl diesel ANd it would have to be renewables or whats the point?

May 18, 2019
@Anonym626413.
Mining and processing lithium, cobalt, and manganese used for batteries consume a great deal of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery represents between 11 and 15 tons of CO2. Given a lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometers, this translates into 73 to 98 grams of CO2 per kilometer. The CO2 produce the electricity that powers such vehicles also needs to be factored in.
re that Ifo Institute:
Senate's criticism of Ifo's services, which were partly described as: "not corresponding to the latest research, especially with regard to their methodological foundations". In 2009 the Senate came to the conclusion that the Ifo Institute had addressed these shortcomings.
When current/evolving developments in renewables/battery energy systems are not factored in, and when the huge damage/cost of humongous amounts of coal/oil mining/processing/transport/burning are not fully factored in, then your above 'spiel' is troll (factory) shite.

May 18, 2019
@snoosebaum.
GVille , yes , ' road tax ' incl a bazillion for monitoring . I calculated that going all ev would mean USA would have to expand power capacity 50 % not incl diesel ANd it would have to be renewables or whats the point?
A 'mix' of 25% gas and 75% renewables/battery is achievable, sustainable and can be 'scaled up' as needed to power home, commercial and transportation electricity/heating needs because it will be more 'distributed' and cheaper/cleaner. Moreover the health/social savings will be so huge that the money otherwise wastes on health problems, water/air/noise pollution (and poisoned/compromised water-table and streams/rivers and food production etc etc) will more than offset any transitional costs which will sooner rather than later drop far below current costs of fossil mining/energy/transport economy. Hence any necessary taxes won't need to be as big as they are now. Try to consider all the factors in future, @snoose. Good luck to us all.

May 18, 2019
@Benni.

If you care to read my responses to @Anonym626413 and @snoosebaum, you will see that you are trusting/approving incomplete/biased 'analysis' promulgated by Russian etc troll-factory stooges/trolls who are not interested in the full facts, only social/political disruption and fooling people (like yourself, apparently) who are either ignorant or careless regarding the climate change disaster unfolding under your nose. Your continuing tendency towards bias and gullibility for anti-AGW propaganda crap reminds me of another poster whom you keep baiting because they too have a tendency towards bias and gullibility for Big Bang fantasies crap. One could say you and they are very alike in your 'unfortunate' tendencies; only the subject is different. You and that other poster alluded to must do/think better and more objectively if you want to be taken seriously on a science site. Good luck.

May 18, 2019
RC, in the 80's i saw an abandoned wind farm on the big island HI , if stuff works it gets maintained

May 18, 2019
So, does that comparison include the materials and energy used to make ICE cars? Or just the gas they burn?

Just askin'.

May 18, 2019
@snoosebaum.
RC, in the 80's i saw an abandoned wind farm on the big island HI , if stuff works it gets maintained
Just as ICE cars came a long way since the Model-T Ford, the wind farm mills, generators, distribution systems have come leaps and bounds since then. Also. you didn't mention their age and what was their design life when commissioned; just as fossil fuelled power plants and cars have design lives beyond which it is more economical/profitable to replace than maintain at a loss/break-even). Look to the future, @snoose. Good luck to you and yours during this transition to the best and most sustainable renewables/gas 'mix' is achieved.


May 18, 2019
the landscape of the future will be littered with windmill ruins just like in HI


May 19, 2019
now its snowing
https://france3-r...9pJIdpd0
says Snoosebaum

My French is a little rusty.
Yes, I see that it has snowed heavily in Osterreich on May 17. Great skiing weather for those hardy souls, eh? A bit of snow here and there is good in the heat of summer.

May 19, 2019
now its snowing
https://france3-r...9pJIdpd0

So its snowing in the mountains? That's a surprise for May? Only for those people who live in holes. That's why its called alpine. Yes it can snow anytime of the year. The only difference is that in late spring and summer it melts a bit quicker than it does in winter.

May 19, 2019
RC, in the 80's i saw an abandoned wind farm on the big island HI , if stuff works it gets maintained


I always find it interesting that the anti-science society finds the need to lie to make a made-up point. The first wind farms in Hawaii were put up in the '80s. They were in use for ~20 years (https://en.wikipe...n_Hawaii ). So snoosebaum never saw an abandoned wind farm in the '80s - he made it up. He's probably never even been to Hawaii. I'm sure that he just saw an article about the Kamaoa wind farm and didn't read it thoroughly enough to understand what it said. Probably didn't care if it was true or not, just as long as the propaganda matched his bias.

May 19, 2019
now its snowing
https://france3-r...9pJIdpd0

So its snowing in the mountains? That's a surprise for May? Only for those people who live in holes. That's why its called alpine. Yes it can snow anytime of the year. The only difference is that in late spring and summer it melts a bit quicker than it does in winter.
says mtnphot

Well, we will see how quickly that snowfall melts this summer. As you say, it can snow anytime of the year. For that to happen, the cold conditions must be present - even in the summer. So far, there is no sign that it is melting.

May 19, 2019
zzzzz ,,,, thats interesting , your research has turned up false info , seeing is believing lol


May 19, 2019
this was the one , near south point , i wus there 80's early 90's ?

https://www.googl...;bih=881

May 19, 2019
@snoosebaum.

You are 'economical with the truth' re those turbines, @snoose. The further history of same tells this...
Apollo Energy Corporation purchased and re-powered the retired Kamaoa Wind Farm which began commercial operation in 1987. Apollo kept the 37 windmills going by using parts from the ones that had broken down through 2006. Now owned and operated by Tawhiri Power LLC, a subsidary of Apollo, Tawhiri leased another property from Hawaiian Homelands near the Kamaoa Wind Farm and renamed this new property Pakini Nui Wind Farm. Pakini consists of 14 General Electric turbines producing 21 megawatts. It went online in April 2007.
...from link:

http://www.waymar...t_Hawaii

So, they maintained them by cannibalising parts from unrepairable mills;

And THEN they built an ADDITIONAL wind farm nearby!

Seems that solar, wind, hydro/thermal power will soon make Hawaii energy self-sufficient via 100% renewables. :)


May 19, 2019
mystery ;

A cluster of 37 wind turbines formerly marked the spot of the Kamaoa Wind Farm, at the far south end of Hawaii's Big Island. The small wind farm opened in 1987 and was decommissioned 20 years later after a deal for the turbines' power expired.

Yet the Mitsubishi turbines cranked on, became an ever-worse eyesore, and maddened those who wanted good views of the coast and Pacific Ocean. The farm's owner, Apollo Energy Corp., finally removed the turbines in 2012 and sold them as scrap to China.

May 19, 2019
how long before the new ones are defunct ?

In 1987 the Kamaoa Wind Farm began operation with thirty-seven Mitsubishi 250 kW wind turbines with an operationally typical total peak output of 7.5 MW.[22] By 2006 the turbines at 18°59′33″N 155°40′5″W were falling into disrepair, and they were finally shut down on August 15, 2006. At the end of August 2006, components for a new set of wind turbines were transported to South Point. The Pakini Nui project consists of 14 General Electric wind turbines constructed at 18°58′20″N 155°41′21″W, about 1.5 miles (2.4 km) from the old Kamaoa wind farm. Completed in April 2007, Pakini Nui supplies up to 20.5 MW of power to the island electricity grid of Hawaii Electric Light Company.[23] The wind farm is operated by Tawhiri Power, LLC. [24] It is the southernmost wind farm in the United States.[25] The turbines of the old wind farm have been disassembled.

and i was there in 2000 [looked it up ] and they were all dead then [not 2006]

May 19, 2019
and here, anthony watts was at Kamaoa in 2001 , here is his larger view , the problem is maintainance ie how do you fix a big f'ing thing on a tower in a remote location . Not to worry they will print more $$ to build new ones .

https://wattsupwi...a-video/

May 19, 2019
Climate deniers always lie. They've always got some fake study that leaves out important facts, or some denial of scientific results that asserts the scientists lied.

It's ridiculous.

May 20, 2019
How about banning carbonated beverages? Bet that'll put and end of the discussion.

May 20, 2019
The CO2 in carbonated beverages comes from the atmosphere.

May 20, 2019
Light water fission reactors are the way to go. replace all coal, oil and gas burning electrical generating plants with nuclear. Renewables have a place but to keep perspective the above mentioned Kamaoa would require 4000 250kw turbines to equal the output of one light water reactor. ( and only then if the wind is blowing full force)

May 20, 2019
Climate deniers always lie.

mclean phd hadcrud audit thesis ;
Among the many errors found by McLean were:

Large gaps where there is no data and where instead averages were calculated from next to no information. For two years, the temperatures over land in the Southern Hemisphere were estimated from just one site in Indonesia.
Almost no quality control, with misspelled country names ('Venezuala" "Hawaai" "Republic of K" (aka South Korea) and sloppy, obviously inaccurate entries.
Adjustments – "I wouldn't be surprised to find that more than 50 percent of adjustments were incorrect," says McLean – which artificially cool earlier temperatures and warm later ones, giving an exaggerated impression of the rate of global warming.
Methodology so inconsistent that measurements didn't even have a reliable policy on variables like Daylight Saving Tim


May 20, 2019
A Caribbean island – St Kitts – where the temperature was recorded at 0 degrees C for a whole month, on two occasions (somewhat implausibly for the tropics)
A town in Romania which in September 1953, allegedly experienced a month where the average temperature dropped to minus 46 degrees C (when the typical average for that month is 10 degrees C).
Yet this is the temperature record from which the IPCC has formed its judgement that the "global warming" since the mid-19th century is sufficiently alarming for governments around the world to have to take urgent action, which is currently costing taxpayers around $2 trillion per annum.

May 20, 2019
@snoosebaum.

Your linked report also said:
"Most people can't even notice a change in temperature of 1 degree C for one moment to the next. So the idea that governments are spending so much money on the basis of a rise in temperature a fraction of that spread over almost 70 years is just idiotic beyond belief."
Which totally misunderstands the situation: ie, trending average increase globally is entirely different from transient increases locally. So that alone makes that author's interpretations/claims suspect. Moreover, dataset 'outlier extremes' are discarded before taking averages, because it is expected that any dataset is likely to contain errors due to technical failures and/or human misreads. And in any case, the newer datasets and current climate disasters are proof that the warming is on trend to increase, and for the disasters to become more frequent, extreme and back-to-back such that we are finding it impossible to recover before the next disaster hits.

May 20, 2019
@snoosebaum.
how long before the new ones are defunct?
How long do coal fired power plants last before they become defunct is the question you should ask now. Because their maintenance costs are huge as they near their design life point. Then there is the poisonous/toxic asbestos/chemical cleanup costs which fossil plants entail at decommissioning. Not to mention the huge tracts of poisoned land/water tables due to the coal mining, transportation, storage, burning per se.

Get the 'comparative picture' now, @snoose? :)

Wind farms and Solar farms are the way to go. They are way less poisonous/damaging/costly than the coal fired power plants, and much better for environmental, human health and sustainability/security in energy far into the distant future when coal would have been used up and become a lot dearer as the supply dwindled. Battery/storage of renewable power is developing apace and getting cheaper/safer all the time. Get with the future, mate. :)

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