Complex societies gave birth to big gods, not the other way around: study

Complex societies gave birth to big gods, not the other way around
Locations of the 30 sampled regions labelled according to precolonial evidence of moralizing gods. The area of each circle is proportional to social complexity of the earliest polity with moralizing gods to occupy the region or the latest precolonial polity for regions without precolonial moralizing gods.

The numbers indicate the date of earliest evidence of such beliefs in thousands of years ago.

The circles are colored by type of moralizing gods. Credit: (c) the authors of the paper

An international research team, including a member of the Complexity Science Hub Vienna, investigated the role of "big gods" in the rise of complex large-scale societies. Big gods are defined as moralizing deities who punish ethical transgressions. Contrary to prevailing theories, the team found that beliefs in big gods are a consequence, not a cause, of the evolution of complex societies. The results are published in the current issue of the journal Nature.

For their statistical analyses, the researchers used the Seshat Global History Databank, the most comprehensive collection of historical and prehistorical data. Currently, Seshat contains about 300,000 records on social complexity, religion and other characteristics of 500 past societies, spanning 10,000 years of human history.

"It has been a debate for centuries why humans, unlike other animals, cooperate in large groups of genetically unrelated individuals," says Seshat director and co-author Peter Turchin from the University of Connecticut and the Complexity Science Hub Vienna. Factors such as agriculture, warfare, or religion have been proposed as main driving forces.

One prominent theory, the big or moralizing gods hypothesis, assumes that religious beliefs were key. According to this theory, people are more likely to cooperate fairly if they believe in gods who will punish them if they don't. "To our surprise, our data strongly contradict this hypothesis," says lead author Harvey Whitehouse. "In almost every world region for which we have data, moralizing gods tended to follow, not precede, increases in social complexity." Even more so, standardized rituals tended on average to appear hundreds of years before gods who cared about human morality.

Such rituals create a collective identity and feelings of belonging that act as social glue, making people to behave more cooperatively. "Our results suggest that collective identities are more important to facilitate cooperation in societies than religious beliefs," says Harvey Whitehouse.

Big data: a new approach to social theories

Until recently, it has been impossible to distinguish between cause and effect in social theories and history, as standardized from throughout world history were missing. To address this problem, data and social scientist Peter Turchin, together with Harvey Whitehouse and Pieter François from the University of Oxford, founded Seshat in 2011. The multidisciplinary project integrates the expertise of historians, archaeologists, anthropologists, as well as data scientists into a state-of-the-art, open-access database. Dozens of experts throughout the world helped to assemble detailed data on social complexity and and practices from hundreds of independent political units ("polities"), beginning with Neolithic Anatolians (today Turkey) in 9600 BCE.

The complexity of a can be estimated by social characteristics such as population, territory, and sophistication of government institutions and information systems. Religious data include the presence of beliefs in supernatural enforcement of reciprocity, fairness, and loyalty, and the frequency and standardization of religious rituals.

"Seshat allows researchers to analyze hundreds of variables relating to , religion, warfare, agriculture and other features of human culture and society that vary over time and space," explains Pieter François. "Now that the database is ready for analysis, we are poised to test a long list of theories about human history." This includes competing theories of how and why humans evolved to cooperate in large-scale societies of millions and more people.

"Seshat is an unprecedented collaboration between anthropologists, historians, archaeologists, mathematicians, computer scientists, and evolutionary scientists", says Patrick Savage, corresponding author of the article. "It shows how can revolutionize the study of human history."


Explore further

Societies living in harsh environments more likely to believe in moralizing gods, study finds

More information: Harvey Whitehouse et al, Complex societies precede moralizing gods throughout world history, Nature (2019). DOI: 10.1038/s41586-019-1043-4

The published Seshat data are available at seshatdatabank.info/data

Journal information: Nature

Provided by Complexity Science Hub Vienna
Citation: Complex societies gave birth to big gods, not the other way around: study (2019, March 21) retrieved 20 August 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-03-complex-societies-gave-birth-big.html
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Mar 21, 2019
Beliefs exist far longer before the institutionalised versions which researchers are able to access. Tribal societies through to modern all existed until recently and the data from them contradict these findings in the article above.

It is far more likely that the institutionalised versions of religion followed on from the purely utilitarian institutions that draw people together such as trade.

Let's face it, where do the 'Big Gods' come from if not from well ingrained beliefs the people have held for hundreds if not thousands of years before large scale institutions with formalised rules and dogma emerged?

Mar 21, 2019
@RobertKarlStonejek

Beliefs exist far longer before [..] versions which researchers are able to access. [..] and the data from them contradict these findings in the article above.


Can you be more specific about what data you're talking about?

It is far more likely that the institutionalised versions of religion followed on from the purely utilitarian institutions that draw people together such as trade


You can argue that, but that addresses more the reasoning of why and how early religions were propagated, not necessarily how the beliefs themselves were established, as well as how they were refined into religions.

Let's face it, where do the 'Big Gods' come from [..]?


You can argue that "magical thinking" was passed on genetically. However, it is rather evident that the more relatively advanced a society is, the more complicated they argue their deities are, simply because they have to be able to somewhat justify it to themselves.

Mar 21, 2019
It is amusing as the self-proclaimed religious believers are constantly trying to dictate the composition of Reality to their deities.

See the old (ancient) joke of the promiscuous clergymen who preach abstinence among their parishioners.

That joke is so antiquated it's become corprolite!

We brag of our Big Brains. However that only means that there is more capacity ro contain tens of millions of years of our Ancestral Monkey instincts.

On top of that mishmash of contradictions? Are a thousand plus generations of intensive conditioning in obeisance to our god-ordained lords & masters.

It is my observation, that most people who claim to worship a deity? Are actually worshiping pharaoh. A thousand generations of slavery have left their mark on the Human genome.

Mar 22, 2019
The logical fallacy of monotheism is that a spiritual absolute would be the essence of sentience, from which we rise, not an ideal of wisdom and knowledge, from which we fell. More the new born, than the wise old man. More the light shining through, than any images on the screen.
So religion is more about social contract, than spiritual insight.
According To Gilbert Murray, the Ancients didn't really distinguish between religion and politics, so monotheism accorded with political absolutism, as in one god, one ruler. While polytheism accorded with democracy. Many gods, many voices. So it was more of a political decision to adopt monotheism as the primary religious model, making the divine right of kings the effective political model. It was when we went back to democratic politics, that the separation of church and state became necessary.
Good and bad are not a cosmic dual between the forces of righteousness and evil, but the biological binary of beneficial and detrimental.

Mar 22, 2019
good points brodix.
well worth pondering.

Mar 22, 2019
Gods are political endorsements.

Mar 22, 2019
The obvious conclusion is that people invent gods, not the reverse.

Mar 23, 2019
gods invent people
people invent gods

who says that a perpetual motion machine is impossible?!

religious lunacy is proof that the implausible can reach ludicrous proportions

Mar 23, 2019
The data is really nice, allowing the researchers to propose that established rituals were in place before the religions. (And at a guess the way state supported religions spread through these multi-ethnic societies.)

it is rather evident that the more relatively advanced a society is, the more complicated they argue their deities are


The monotheist gods/karma are quite simple conceptually compared to ancestral or pantheon worship or shamanism et cetera. (In fact the last decade has shown us that they are the same type of confidence trick as astrology was shown to be a few decades earlier.) So what evidence do you have that makes it "evident" for you and possibly for us?

Mar 24, 2019
@torbjorn_b_g_larsson

The monotheist gods/karma are quite simple conceptually


How is the christian god, for example, simple? They're literally building up complicated and unfalsifiable claims, and expect those who don't believe them to prove them wrong, instead of bearing the burden of proof themselves. At least with Zeus you could go up the mountain and see for yourself, and his power over thunder was pretty much disproven to the more pragmatically-thinking people, by scientific discoveries that led us to understand how it works.

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,

Consider the evolution of monotheism. Judaism is tribal in nature and harkens back to origins of theism, as the group soul, or identity.
Christianity is filtered through Greek pantheism and retains one of the foundational devices in the Trinity, of the Year Gods, ie, cycles of the seasons. As each god grows old and is replaced by the next. Past, present, future=Father, Son, Holy Ghost. It was useful to adopt the Jewish prophet of Jesus as a good narrative lesson, with the myth of him as descended from royal blood, seeking to overthrow the old order and being killed and reborn. There was a primordial tradition of selecting a young man to be king for a year, treating him like a god, then killing and tearing him apart in the spring bacchanalia and burying his parts in the fields as a fertility ritual. So as it became a bit too primitive, the story of Jesus served as analogy. Then Catholicism, as the eternal institution, tried to obscure the renewal function.

Mar 24, 2019
Religion is part of the glue that holds society together. Destroying people's culture and religion destroys the civilization. It takes centuries to rebuild this. It is so complicated to rebuild that no one can do it on purpose. Is this not what humpty dumpty is about? All those societal engineers should realize that there narrow studies can only make things worse. Let society evolve on its own. This is why we have so many levels of authority in society, so success can happen organically.

Mar 24, 2019
Religion is part of the glue that holds society together. Destroying people's culture and religion destroys the civilization
erm... dafuq?

religion is divisive and a means to establish the legitimacy of prejudicial beliefs by making the follower superior to others by inculcation, therefore it's primary purpose is as a means to control others and legitimize the segregation of themselves from others by right of perceived superiority

here are some examples of religion holding society together not destroying culture just from the KJV

NUM 31:17 -Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him

1SAM 15:3 - Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass

religion is about control

Mar 24, 2019
grandpa,
Very true, but our culture is heading towards a major tipping point and it might be useful to go back and examine some of the beliefs which got us to this point. Such as 'Go forth and multiply,' to, 'Go west young man,' might be leavened with a little, 'What goes round, comes round.' People are very linear and goal oriented, but nature is more the tension, balance and feedback between different and opposing elements.

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,
Consider the evolution of monotheism..


Fair enough, I haven't studied religions extensively, however I don't see how what you're saying is very relevant in the context of what I was saying. If you're referring to what I said about religions of more advanced civilizations being more complicated, I wasn't necessarily talking about their customs and practices, but on the primary claims they're making, a.k.a. the existence of a higher power of some sort. Just because they did away with multiple deities being responsible for different things and just compacted everything into one, in the case of monotheistic religions, while conveniently removing certain attributes or credit for certain phenomena because of scientific discoveries, it doesn't necessarily mean they're simplifying their religion. It used to be that a god was responsible for rain, while now it's dark matter, or the big bang, or whatever else we can't explain right now, hence currently unfalsifiable claims.

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,

..evolution of monotheism. Judaism is tribal in nature and harkens back to origins of theism, as the group soul, or identity.
Christianity is filtered through Greek pantheism and retains one of the foundational devices in the Trinity, of the Year Gods, ie, cycles of the seasons. As each god grows old and is replaced by the next. Past, present, future=Father, Son, Holy Ghost. .
says brodix

You and the other ATHEISTS have been describing the history of humankind in their quest for a god to love and care for them - where even false gods would do - under the category of Tribalism. Tribalism is all mere excuses for humans to act the way they do no matter how vile, villainous and murderous their words, thoughts and actions, and their effects on other humans.
Your and other Atheists' concentration on Christianity as the seeming epitome of all the ills and misery that has occurred since the time of the Christ is only half-true. It is the religion you know best


Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
says brodix
It was useful to adopt the Jewish prophet of Jesus as a good narrative lesson, with the myth of him as descended from royal blood, seeking to overthrow the old order and being killed and reborn. There was a primordial tradition of selecting a young man to be king for a year, treating him like a god, then killing and tearing him apart in the spring bacchanalia and burying his parts in the fields as a fertility ritual. So as it became a bit too primitive, the story of Jesus served as analogy. Then Catholicism, as the eternal institution, tried to obscure the renewal function


As I've said before elsewhere, the only reason for the family of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to be the progenitors of the "Jewish people" was for the birth of Yahashuah aka Jesus Christ to come about - born into a family who were believers in the Creator God and no other gods. That is the ONLY reason for the Hebrew/Jewish existence on Earth. Catholicism has been corrupted.

Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
@brodix
Catholicism has been corrupted by greed and the quest for power and glory. ALL of Christianity has been corrupted to some degree, as well as Protestantism, which had been alienated from the Catholic Church over the nonsense of "indulgences" and other means of acquiring wealth for the Church, amongst other reasons.
The Truth is that the ancient humans had forgotten the Creator God and His Holy Angels - those Angels whose mission it is to record, observe and give good advice to the humans in their charge.
In their forgetfulness, ancient humans devised false gods and ascribed power on such stone idols to answer prayers and sacrifices by providing good crop yields and wealth. They sinned while believing that it was what their stone idols wanted them to do. They devised false religions for mass idolatry to their false gods. And the ancient humans began warring with other religions/sects/beliefs as it was their belief that that was what their false gods wanted

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit

The mainstream position of atheists is to not believe the claims religions make, simply because they're unable to demonstrate their validity and soundness, while demanding those disbelieving them to prove them wrong and therefore trying to shift the burden of proof.
A reason why many atheists have an issue with Christianity specifically, at least in some western societies, is that it influences people's opinion on broader subjects, and therefore impacting political decisions on what should and should not be permitted with the weight of the law backing it up.
And yea, that matters. You can choose not to eat shellfish because your religion says so; that's fine, more for me. But if your religion says to kill homosexuals, or that women should be subservient, or that slavery is ok, then we have a problem.

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,
No problem, just offering some alternate history.

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit

The mainstream position of atheists is to not believe the claims religions make, simply because they're unable to demonstrate their validity and soundness, while demanding those disbelieving them to prove them wrong and therefore trying to shift the burden of proof.
A reason why many atheists have an issue with Christianity specifically, at least in some western societies, is that it influences people's opinion on broader subjects, and therefore impacting political decisions on what should and should not be permitted with the weight of the law backing it up.
And yea, that matters. You can choose not to eat shellfish because your religion says so; that's fine, more for me. But if your religion says to kill homosexuals, or that women should be subservient, or that slavery is ok, then we have a problem.
says Sieg

The ONLY religion I know of that says to kill homosexuals, abuse women in any way and to approve slavery - is the ISLAMIC RELIGION

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,
Sorry, I thought you were trying to give some sort of a counter-argument. My bad, misunderstood you.

@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,
You haven't really read your bible, have you?

Mar 24, 2019
SEU,
We all need framing devices, to make sense of society and the larger reality. Personally I was raised Episcopalian, in a fairly Wasp part of society and the line between those who were devout and those who thought of it as social ritual were not evident, since we don't make a big deal about purity. Then again there were not a lot of social and economic forces pulling the community apart. When people make a big deal about their religion, I find such broader context to be illuminating. If you want a good book on the foundations of Western culture, Gilbert Murray's; The Five Stages of Greek Religion is a good, short read.

Mar 24, 2019
The mainstream position of atheists is to not believe the claims religions make, simply because they're unable to demonstrate their validity and soundness, while demanding those disbelieving them to prove them wrong and therefore trying to shift the burden of proof.
A reason why many atheists have an issue with Christianity specifically, at least in some western societies, is that it influences people's opinion on broader subjects, and therefore impacting political decisions on what should and should not be permitted with the weight of the law backing it up.
says Sieg

Interesting how you defend Atheism by placing the onus on those who are believers in the Creator God to provide evidence as to the reasons for their beliefs in that Creator God, while letting Atheists off the hook to providing evidence that their belief in the Creator God to be unwarranted and invalid.
Luckily, the US and other western nations allow such beliefs AND disbeliefs, as long as nobody is hurt

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,
Now if you want to have an argument about the Big Bang Theory.....
For instance, how is it that "space expands," but that expansion is relative to the light crossing it and being redshifted? Wouldn't that mean the speed of light is still the denominator?
Or why is it that falsifiability doesn't apply to cosmology, since every time there is a gap between prediction and observation, some enormous, otherwise invisible, new force of nature is assumed?
I tend to treat cultural issues as the stories for children they are, since their primary function is to indoctrinate each new generation. If we don't believe what we are taught, we don't learn it and that's been my problem.

Mar 24, 2019
SEU,
As I pointed out, further up the thread, a spiritual absolute would necessarily be that essence of sentience, from which life rises, not an ideal of wisdom and judgement, from which it fell. More the consciousness seeking knowledge and having to learn it the hard way. Not some perfect state of knowing and being. More the new born, than the wise old man.
So I'm not atheist, just see that top down, father figure lawgiver and his ten commandments as a political construct, validating top down political forms, not really spiritual insight.

Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
@Sieg
As to religionists, specifically Christians having enough sway to indoctrinate politicians and others into giving religions enough leeway to bring changes to Constitutional Laws (US Constitution, eg) that would provide an unfair advantage to such religionists wrt their religious beliefs and moralistic proclivities, the Laws are made to avoid such incompatibilities between the religious and nonreligious elements by judicial rulings - as well as to put the matter before the US Supreme Court, if necessary.
The problem is that the majority of Atheists are malcontents who desire that ALL humans toss out their beliefs in the Creator God, and to join them in the Atheist army of anti-religion, even including moralistic proclivities that MOST religious adhere to.

Whether one of the other - religious Christians or haters of Christianity mainly, the Laws allow each individual to choose whichever they wish to believe. There is no arm twisting going on, except with Islam.

Mar 24, 2019
SEU,
As I pointed out, further up the thread, a spiritual absolute would necessarily be that essence of sentience, from which life rises, not an ideal of wisdom and judgement, from which it fell. More the consciousness seeking knowledge and having to learn it the hard way. Not some perfect state of knowing and being. More the new born, than the wise old man.
So I'm not atheist, just see that top down, father figure lawgiver and his ten commandments as a political construct, validating top down political forms, not really spiritual insight.
says brodix

The 10 Commandments are, in essence, what I would call the "basic bread of Life", as those Commandments are the backbone of what the Family, Community, and the Nation should seek in order to avoid the vulnerabilities of an imprecise and wayward absolutism. Without those Commandments and their offshoots, there could only be complete Chaos on Earth amongst its citizens. This is why those 10 Commandments were given

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,
I'm simply saying that religions say we "believe X", and that atheists say, "prove it". It's not the atheists' job to prove that what you say is false, it's the job of the one who makes the claim to validate it. And atheist and anti-theist isn't the same thing.
Yes, the US constitution was written with a separation of church and state in mind. That doesn't mean that people who want to adhere to their religious beliefs cannot affect the outcome of an election, or the passing of a law. It's not about "indoctrinating politicians", it's about possibly voting in people who adhere to the same religious teachings they do, in hopes that it will impact their future decisions.
Also, if you really read the bible, you can understand that it's not a good source for morals, therefore it's not something that should be held to the standard many Christians think it should.
Lastly, it's not 10 commandments, it's 613.

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,
I'm not a physicist so I can't answer your questions with precision, however the whole point of science is to make hypotheses based on observations, and then work towards creating testable models that potentially explain them. And I can't stress enough the vastness of what is yet undiscovered and not understood out there, that in most cases the most honest answer one can give is "I don't know".
Because that's the main difference between scientific and religious claims. Science tries to explain things we can study and can be falsified at any moment with new knowledge, while religion claims they're certain of things they can't explain.
Also, I'm not saying that religions didn't play a part in how our society evolved, I'm just saying that believing something that can be proven to be true is more important.

Mar 24, 2019
SEU,
An absolute is a unitary state, with no divisions, distinctions, etc. What you describe is an ideal. The problem with conflating the absolute with the ideal is that any deviation from the ideal is not to be allowed. It has no room to exist. The effect is fundamentalism.
Reality is this dichotomy of energy pushing out, as form coalesces in. Think galaxies; energy radiating out, as structure/mass coalesces in. We are driven by emotions, desires and organic social energies bubbling up, while cultural, civil and social forms coalesce in. When the energies overwhelm the forms, it is chaos. When the forms crush the energies, it is totalitarianism. So we exist in that balance and tension in the middle.
We develop cultures and civil forms to give society structure. What defines us, necessarily limits us, as what limits us, defines us.

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,
Nor am I. I only started studying physics as a way to make sense of people, given there are patterns running through society. I found though, an apparent religion, built around the belief that everything is digitized, quantified information, with no credence given to the foundational nature of the energy driving it. Information is inherently static, while energy is inherently dynamic.
For instance, time is not so much the past to future narrative sequence, codified as measures of duration, but change turning future to past. Tomorrow becomes yesterday, because the earth turns. It is an effect, like temperature, pressure, color, etc.
There is no dimension of time, because the past is consumed by the present, in order to inform it, aka causality, conservation of energy.
Time is asymmetric because action is inertial. The earth turns one direction, not both.
I know questioning the paradigm makes most people uncomfortable, so I'm just giving you something to think about.

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,

So basically you're saying that science is limiting itself to what it can study, and that looking deeper or however you wanna put it, can provide answers to questions science cannot answer. And then you say a bunch of statements said by scientists and/or modern witch-doctors. Science is a method. We discover things and then we use those things to discover other things. Skipping the important parts of science leads to speculation, which remains as such until proven.
And how is information inherently static? You can argue that the representation of information because of limitations in our current technology might make it static in some ways, that doesn't however mean that information itself is static when it is always subject to change.
Time is asymmetric because action is inertial.

What's the proof for the correlation of the two?

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,

What's the proof for the correlation of the two?


Woops, mispoke and missed the deadline for editing. I meant causation.

Mar 24, 2019
I think it goes deeper than science. We have a digestive, respiratory and circulatory system to process energy, while the central nervous system processes information, so there is an intellectual bias toward information. It is static, because it would be blurry if it wasn't. Think taking a picture with a long exposure. So we keep distilling the process down to whatever level it becomes static and thus clear and precise. Assuming this must be the foundation of reality, but that's like distilling a body down to the bones and assuming you have found the seed from which it sprang. Structure and form is emergent, like amplitude and frequency are emergent from the energy of the wave, not the other way around. So we digitize communication to keep it clear and then start believing everything must be digital. Yet energy drives it. Think oil companies and banks, versus universities. The heart and gut, versus the head. The motor versus the steering.

Mar 24, 2019
When you measure time, you measure an action.
Different clocks can run at different rates, because they are separate actions. Think frequencies, or metabolism. The turtle is still plodding along, long after the hare has died, because it has a slower metabolic rate and no space travel is necessary.
The present isn't so much a point between past and future, but the configuration of the energy, much of which is bouncing around at the speed of light. So it seems instantaneous, but for light, there is no time, as it creates time.
As Emerson put it; "We are but thickened light."

Mar 24, 2019
Sieg,
For instance, time is not so much the past to future narrative sequence, codified as measures of duration, but change turning future to past. Tomorrow becomes yesterday, because the earth turns. It is an effect, like temperature, pressure, color, etc.
There is no dimension of time, because the past is consumed by the present, in order to inform it, aka causality, conservation of energy.
Time is asymmetric because action is inertial. The earth turns one direction, not both.
I know questioning the paradigm makes most people uncomfortable, so I'm just giving you something to think about.
says brodix

Thanks for basically agreeing with my stance on the nonexistence of time as a dimension. Many are those who remain unconvinced and readily "rattle their cage" in expression of strong disagreement, yet without the ability to explain what time is made of, while I have said often that Space is the Universe and vice-versa. Space IS a dimension along with the other 3.


Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
@brodix
Time is nothing but a Concept generated by the Mind/Brain to be used as a "tool" for measurement. As it is only a thought that is generated by Mind/Brain - it is impossible for "time" to be a dimensional object, figure or entity. Without the thoughts of the human Mind, time cannot be.

Mar 24, 2019
@brodix,
I think you're misunderstanding what science is. Science is a method that is applied for us to figure out things and to demonstrate the mechanisms by which they operate, and I think you're referring more to only things we can practically observe on our own by applying some distorted "paranormal" or "esoteric" view that wants us to "observe" the unobservable or whatever, as opposed to what our brain can process, which you consider "static".
Some gravitational and magnetic fields for example aren't necessarily that apparent, but we have instruments and methods by which to study them. Demonstrable and replicable experiments are what is necessary for us to be able with our cognitive capabilities to process and conclude whether something exists, and as I said before, if you cannot sufficiently demonstrate any of it, it remains intricate and well-worded speculation at best.
If you have objections with how scientists in certain disciplines operate, take it up with them.

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,
I'm simply saying that religions say we "believe X", and that atheists say, "prove it". It's not the atheists' job to prove that what you say is false, it's the job of the one who makes the claim to validate it. And atheist and anti-theist isn't the same thing.
Yes, the US constitution was written with a separation of church and state in mind. That doesn't mean that people who want to adhere to their religious beliefs cannot affect the outcome of an election, or the passing of a law. It's not about "indoctrinating politicians", it's about possibly voting in people who adhere to the same religious teachings they do, in hopes that it will impact their future decisions.
.
says Sieg

By Atheists insisting that religious Christians 'PROVE" the existence of their God, it is asking to prove the existence of the Supernatural elements of Reality - which is not possible to produce that which the senses could detect. Matter/Energy may be detected.

Mar 24, 2019
By Atheists insisting that religious Christians 'PROVE" the existence of their God, it is asking to prove the existence of the Supernatural elements of Reality - which is not possible to produce that which the senses could detect.
That's kinda the whole point.

I ain't ever seen anything supernatural. Sure have heard a lot of people bullshit about it, including some who wanted me to "admit it." Several of them even wanted to get violent. Kinda like you.

It's the whole evidence thing. Either you got it or you're full of shit. Simple as that.

Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
@Sieg
Matter/Energy and things made of it are, for the most part, detectable by the senses and instruments. But the Christian Creator God is not of Matter, but only a form of Energy, although not the kind of Energies that are associated with Matter. So, the answers that atheists are expecting to hear from the religious and from Creationists are certainly not what they want to hear.
The human mind is subject to its environs that surround it on the planet Earth. This is all there is. And yet, atheists insist that there must be something more. Some atheists are content to live out their lives and are unconcerned about what the religious believe, but other atheists are amazingly disturbed over the fact that there are those who believe in an unseeable Creator God, and quite remarkably appear to resent that fact - as though it is a personal affront to the atheists' disbelief or whatever they wish to call it. This seeming resentment is actively projected in this website

Mar 24, 2019
When you troll people you commit violence. Simple as that.

It makes it clear what you really believe, and it has nothing to do with what the book you profess to follow says.

This is what you believe: https://pbs.twimg...pg:large

Then there's the whole mind-reading alien thing.

You are psychotic.

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,

Again, religions say "we believe X", and the mainstream atheist position is to say "prove it".
If you cannot provide sufficient evidence and are simply holding a belief based on faith, then by definition you cannot prove its existence and it remains speculation. You don't know, you just pretend to because you read a book that convinced you, and/or got indoctrinated by your family or whoever influential in your life.

Mar 24, 2019
-contd-
@Sieg
@Brodix
There are humans who have the ability to actually SEE the Creator God, but don't announce it to the world, as it is a very personal, private and holy event. Others have the ability to SEE Angels of God, and they also don't announce it for the same reasons. It has something to do with the eyes that are able to detect and observe the Supernatural, whereas it doesn't occur with the majority of humans. And perhaps it is best that way. Physorg is a small microcosm of atheistic thought - some of it quite deranged as you can tell easily.
But not all atheists are mentally challenged, and possibly most are believers in "live and let live".
The ones who are clearly resentful of the believers in a Creator God, such as the one above my post, are not the 'live and let live' kind of atheist, but have a deep inherent hatred for that which they are jealous of. Jealousy is a hard taskmaster and consumes its owner.

Mar 24, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,

Oh, alright, gotcha. You're basically saying that you're either crazy or gullible, or a combination of both. And you're describing those with similar impairments.
If you can observe something, you can study it. So grab those who can observe whatever it is you think you or they can observe, and get started on tests to verify what it may be, instead of making speculations.

Mar 25, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,

Again, religions say "we believe X", and the mainstream atheist position is to say "prove it".
If you cannot provide sufficient evidence and are simply holding a belief based on faith, then by definition you cannot prove its existence and it remains speculation. You don't know, you just pretend to because you read a book that convinced you, and/or got indoctrinated by your family or whoever influential in your life.
says Sieg

Not all religionists are able to PROVE that which they believe in, by the mere fact that their eyes are unable to see what others have the ability to see. It is for that reason that atheists who demand PROOF will not be provided that proof; it is simply a matter of having faith in your belief and in the reality of your God. Atheists, in many cases, are a sorry lot, for their inability to leave others alone to live their own lives. The resentment is usually about what is seen as proselytising of religious belief

Mar 25, 2019
I don't like having your jebus stuck up my nose and when you get hostile about it you can expect the same in return.

If you wanna believe in stuff you can't prove or see, go ahead. Don't criticize me when I don't.

Mar 25, 2019
@Surveillance_Egg_Unit,

Oh, alright, gotcha. You're basically saying that you're either crazy or gullible, or a combination of both. And you're describing those with similar impairments.
If you can observe something, you can study it. So grab those who can observe whatever it is you think you or they can observe, and get started on tests to verify what it may be, instead of making speculations.
says Sieg

Crazy or gullible is not in the picture at all. What you have said in your post is a good example of atheistic inability to leave religionists and Creationists alone to live their own lives, while YOU, as an atheist, live yours. You seem to have a very deep resentment toward those with beliefs that are not the same as yours. You seem to espouse the totalitarian view of, "if you're not with me, you're against me".
If you didn't have such a view, you wouldn't have implied "crazy or gullible" as the reason for belief in the Creator God.
You don't "study" the Creator.

Mar 25, 2019
See, you guys proselytize. That means you try to convince gullible and crazy people to join you.

You can't keep it to yourselves. You're incontinent. That's what atheists object to.

It's kinda like letting your kid go around school infecting other kids with smallpox. Or black plague.

Mar 25, 2019
And then there's the fact you come on science sites and troll people. And it seems to be a habit with your ilk. Maybe you should go home and post on religion sites where psychotics like you are accepted.

Mar 25, 2019
@Sieg
@Brodix
LOL I see that Captain Dumpy and Da Schniebo are continuing their campaign of downvoting my posts with all ones.
See, that is another clear example of resentment and hatred against the messenger of Truth, particularly when the messenger (me) has presented the unadulterated truths of how and why there are believers in the Creator God, who created the Universe.
Quite frankly, guys, I couldn't care less whether you believe as I do - or not. It IS your choice, after all, and you are free to make your own choices. We are not allowed to interfere to prevent your poor choices. Your choices are YOU.

Mar 25, 2019
Then how come you keep showing up on science sites and trolling?

Just askin' and stuff.

Mar 25, 2019
See, this is the thing: religions are predatory memeplexes. They propagate themselves by exactly these techniques, and many others. That's why they're so successful; they've evolved to be. Just like viruses and other diseases-- but these are diseases of the mind.

Never trust a religion, any more than you'd trust a black plague bacterium.

Mar 25, 2019
god = (g)eodesically (o)rdinated (d)ata...

Mar 25, 2019
Sieg,
Yes, I guess my argument is mostly with theoretical physics and their obsession with platonic math, leading off into the multiverse. Fields like neurology and biology have a better instinctive grasp of the dynamics, but don't delve into the depths of the conflict with the physical theorists.

Mar 25, 2019
SEU,
Dimensions are really just the xyz coordinate system and are a mapping device. It would be like arguing latitude, longitude and altitude are the basis of the biosphere of this planet, rather than a way to map locations.
If we remove all physical properties from space, it still has the non-physical qualities of infinity, because there is nothing to bound it, and equilibrium, which is implicit in GR, given the frame with the fastest clock and longest ruler would be closest to the equilibrium of the void. This equilibrium is absolute zero.
Then of the properties existing in space, energy radiates to infinity, or as far as possible. I suspect we will discover redshift to be an optical effect, so the cosmic background radiation is light from even further sources, shifted off the visible spectrum.
Mass/information coalesces to absolute zero, as in the black holes at the center of galaxies. As all energy is radiated back out, in the feedback loops of cosmic convection cycles.

Mar 25, 2019
SEU,
It isn't that time, the changing configuration of energy, is only mental. We evolved the thought process to deal with this effect of change. Most of life lives in the present, but we tell stories to each other, as a way to project prior events onto potential events, in order to plan for them. So the sequence of thought is emergent from the effect of time. Plants don't have this central nervous system, because they don't intentionally navigate their space. It is this need to make decisions about our movements which makes time and space so intertwined. In fact it is Edgar Allen Poe who is credited with first arguing time and space are the same. Keep in mind he was a professional storyteller.
We could use ideal gas laws to correlate volume with pressure and temperature, but that doesn't make them the 5th and 6th dimensions of space, because they are only foundational to our environment and biological functions, rather than our thought process.

Mar 25, 2019
Catholicism has been corrupted by greed and the quest for power and glory. ALL of Christianity has been corrupted to some degree
Xianity was a typical apocalyptic/messianic movement, one of many popular at the time. That was adopted and 'corrupted' by rome to serve as a backfire against the spread of abrahamic monotheism across their empire. Jews had discovered the secret to religionist imperialism - a single, all-powerful god who demanded that women produce babies at the maximum rate until it killed them. Rome realized that rather than fight this strategy, they would adopt it. Which is why the Torah is a part of xian canon.

SEU is a serial liar and imbecile who has corrupted physorg for years under various socks such as pirouette, russkiye, racist_black_guy, obamasocks etc. She is not worth engaging with and should be exposed whenever she pops up.

Mar 25, 2019
For instance
Others have the ability to SEE Angels of God, and they also don't announce it for the same reasons
...pussytard looks at NASA photos and sees 600 ft tall martians with transparent heads lying in the Martian dust, and is very happy to shit such revelations all over this site.

You see similar such turds in this very thread. Such as
The ONLY religion I know of that says to kill homosexuals, abuse women in any way and to approve slavery - is the ISLAMIC RELIGION
Now, pussytard knows full well that the bible condones, approves, and requires these things. But she knows how to bait people with the intent of stuffing these threads full of her inane garbage.

Avoid, harass, and ridicule this freak every chance you get.

Mar 25, 2019
Consider the evolution of monotheism. Judaism is tribal in nature and harkens back to origins of theism, as the group soul, or identity
-and jehovah was originally just another canaanite tribal god, with a wife.
Christianity is filtered through Greek pantheism and retains one of the foundational devices in the Trinity, of the Year Gods, ie, cycles of the seasons
-The best explanation I've seen yet is this movie
https://youtu.be/O6CKTqC0-4M
https://youtu.be/oQ8LEjtgO8M

-which explains that the religion is not an invention but a well-heeled formula that has indeed evolved, consciously, through lessons learned over the centuries by unscrupulous priests and politicians.

Mar 25, 2019
Ghost,
"by unscrupulous priests and politicians"
Unfortunately.
But when society doesn't have some larger plan, apparently they pull a brexit. Otherwise known as Tower of Babel.
Another lesson is predatory lending/disaster capitalism, like getting politicians to borrow and then foreclose on public properties. It's all the same old, same old.

Mar 26, 2019
For instance
Others have the ability to SEE Angels of God, and they also don't announce it for the same reasons
...pussytard looks at NASA photos and sees 600 ft tall martians with transparent heads lying in the Martian dust, and is very happy to shit such revelations all over this site.You see in this very thread. Such as
The ONLY religion I know of that says to kill homosexuals, abuse women in any way and to approve slavery - is the ISLAMIC RELIGION
Now, pussytard knows full well that the bible condones, approves, and requires these things. But she knows how to bait people with the intent of stuffing these threads full of her inane garbage.
Avoid, harass, and ridicule this freak every chance you get.
says pussytard

Uh no, pussytard - the Creator God does NOT condone homosexuality, abuse of women or slavery. What is written in the Bible is the history of the JEWS and has little to do with God.
600 ft tall Martians now? You always claimed they were 900 ft tall

Mar 26, 2019
Whoops. Need to get a new pair of glasses! Or I'm developing dyslexia.

"Complex societies gave birth to big dogs, not the other way around: study."

Mar 26, 2019
Then how come you keep showing up on science sites and trolling?

Just askin' and stuff.
says Da Schiebo

Then how come you keep showing up on science sites and trolling?

Just askin' and stuff.

Mar 26, 2019
Catholicism has been corrupted by greed and the quest for power and glory. ALL of Christianity has been corrupted to some degree
Xianity was a typical apocalyptic/messianic movement, one of many popular at the time. That was adopted and 'corrupted' by rome to serve as a backfire against the spread of abrahamic monotheism across their empire. Jews had discovered the secret to religionist imperialism - a single, all-powerful god who demanded that women produce babies at the maximum rate until it killed them. Rome realized

SEU is a serial liar and imbecile who has corrupted physorg for years under various socks such as pirouette, russkiye, racist_black_guy, obamasocks etc. She is not worth engaging with and should be exposed whenever she pops up.
says SpookyOtto aka pussytard

All those names are YOU, SpookyOtto - and everybody knows it. You have produced hundreds of sox throughout the years so that you could talk to and agree with yourself. Stop lying.

Mar 26, 2019
Then how come you keep showing up on science sites and trolling?

Just askin' and stuff.
says Da Schiebo

Then how come you keep showing up on science sites and trolling?

Just askin' and stuff.


Because Da Schneib has a decent knowledge of science, and doesn't troll. He just points out the nonsense posted by others who don't have a clue. Such as yourself.

Mar 26, 2019
their empire. Jews had discovered the secret to religionist imperialism - a single, all-powerful god who demanded that women produce babies at the maximum rate until it killed them. Rome realized that rather than fight this strategy, they would adopt it. Which is why the Torah is a part of Christian canon.
says pussytard aka SpookyOtto

"demanded that women produce babies...until it killed them."
SpookyOtto always talks about women having babies until it kills them. This thought of women always having babies and then dying in childbirth always brings TEARS to pussytard's eyes, as he is evidently so concerned with the health of women, while also concerned about "overpopulation". Isn't that right, pussytard?
SpookyOtto hates the thought of men and women having sex together, whether or not it results in pregnancy. The thought of humans having COITUS is anathema to SpookyOtto - simply due to his inability to have sex with a woman - and prefers either men or his 5 fingers.

Mar 26, 2019
I troll back.

That makes you butthurt.

Mar 26, 2019
SEU,
- Dimensions are really just the xyz coordinate system and are a mapping device. It would be like arguing latitude, longitude and altitude are the basis of the biosphere of this planet, rather than a way to map locations.
- If we remove all physical properties from space, it still has the non-physical qualities of infinity, because there is nothing to bound it, and equilibrium, which is implicit in GR, given the frame with the fastest clock and longest ruler would be closest to the equilibrium of the void. This equilibrium is absolute zero.
says brodix

They are both the basis of this planet AND a way to map locations. Removing physical properties from Space is not an option, at least not in the sub quantum state. Larger forms of Matter are movable, but that which Space is made of remains inviolate.
The very existence of the Universe IS characterised BY its Equilibrium. In its absence, there is complete Chaos and annihilation.

Mar 26, 2019
says brodix
SEU,
It isn't that time, the changing configuration of energy, is only mental.
We evolved the thought process to deal with this effect of change. Most of life lives in the present, but we tell stories to each other, as a way to project prior events onto potential events, in order to plan for them.
- Energy is changeable into Matter which has nothing to do with the conception or perception of "time". Motion/momentum has its own energy - kinetic. Thought process is based on ideas, which are based on observation and either mental or instrumental measurements. When that process begins, an idea forms mentally, which is most often based on observation, questioning and possible comprehension. The blind can also form ideas mentally of 'how, when, what, where, who' without observation or mental pictures. They are often unaware of the passage of "time" as you know it - but only what is going on as Events/Actions unfold.

Mar 26, 2019
Maybe if you didn't try to sell your particular religion like a used car salesman because you claim jebus told you it was OK to lie you'd have more cred and do less trolling.

Mar 26, 2019
says brodix
So the sequence of thought is emergent from the effect of time. Plants don't have this central nervous system, because they don't intentionally navigate their space. It is this need to make decisions about our movements which makes time and space so intertwined.
- You, and planets, Stars, and all other Matter/Energy make your and their "movements" according to the kinetic energies that are inherent to that particular form of Mass. When you walk in the park, you are walking in Space. Walking is an Event/Action regardless of its length and the 3 dimensional structure which is YOU. It is YOUR IDEA to walk in the park. If you have an appt. then you will consult your timepiece so as not to be late.

In fact it is Edgar Allen Poe who is credited with first arguing time and space are the same. Keep in mind he was a professional storyteller.
- That he was. But he erred when he equalised time with Space. One is a figment, the other is an actual object.

Mar 26, 2019
If space is an object tell us what it's made of.

You have already failed this test once; here's your second chance.

When I wanted to put a compression tester on the engine the used car salesman started whining, lying, denying, and trying to distract from the subject. Then it said compression testing was "banned by the law." When I asked what law it had no answer. I sicced the BAR on it. From what I heard it lost its job and its lot got shut down.

Mar 26, 2019
Yet more slime...
pirouette, russkiye, racist_black_guy, obamasocks etc
Hey I forgot the one from whence you got your nickname... pussycat_eyes. You know, the sex-up-against-the-microwave freak.
See, that's an old and oft-repeated lie over the years that you would not be familiar with unless you had been here all along as one of your freak train iterations.
the thought of men and women having sex together, whether or not it results in pregnancy. The thought of humans having COITUS is anathema
Hmmm... this harkins back to your brilliant insights into population growth
"Zero population growth means exactly that - zero - meaning that in order to have absolute zero growth, NO babies are to be live births...If all the adults live to be 100 years, then it will mean that no new babies will be allowed to be born UNTIL ALL those adults have died first. Zero births are required while those people live."

Mar 26, 2019
Oop another android misspost. Let's try again
pirouette, russkiye, racist_black_guy, obamasocks etc
Hey I forgot the one from whence you got your nickname... pussycat_eyes. You know, the sex-up-against-the-microwave freak.
hundreds of socks
See, that's an old and oft-repeated lie over the years that you would not be familiar with unless you had been here all along as one of your freak train iterations.
men and women having sex together, whether or not it results in pregnancy. The thought of humans having COITUS is anathema
Hmmm... this harkins back to your brilliant insights into population growth
"Zero population growth means exactly that - zero - meaning that in order to have absolute zero growth, NO babies are to be live births...If all the adults live to be 100 years, then it will mean that no new babies will be allowed to be born UNTIL ALL those adults have died first. Zero births are required while those people live."
Better?

Mar 26, 2019
Let's try again
pirouette, russkiye, racist_black_guy, obamasocks etc
Hey I forgot the one from whence you got your nickname... pussycat_eyes. You know, the sex-up-against-the-microwave freak.
hundreds of socks
See, that's an old and oft-repeated lie over the years that you would not be familiar with unless you had been here all along as one of your freak train iterations.
men and women having sex together, whether or not it results in pregnancy. The thought of humans having COITUS is anathema
Hmmm... this harkins back to your brilliant insights into population growth
"Zero population growth means exactly that - zero - meaning that in order to have absolute zero growth, NO babies are to be live births...If all the adults live to be 100 years, then it will mean that no new babies will be allowed to be born UNTIL ALL those adults have died first. Zero births are required while those people live."
Better?
says pussytard

Nope, not me. Try again

Mar 26, 2019
If space is an object tell us what it's made of.

You have already failed this test once; here's your second chance.

When I wanted to put a compression tester on the engine the used car salesman started whining, lying, denying, and trying to distract from the subject. Then it said compression testing was "banned by the law." When I asked what law it had no answer. I sicced the BAR on it. From what I heard it lost its job and its lot got shut down.
says Da Schniebo

What? You STILL don't know what Space is made of? I'll wager that you don't know what "time" is made of, either.
So you're a troublemaker offline too. Got someone fired and went out of business, aye? You couldn't just go to another dealer. You HAD to cause trouble for a guy so that he can't feed his family and pay his bills. You moron.

Mar 26, 2019
double post

Mar 26, 2019
If space is an object tell us what it's made of.

You have already failed this test once; here's your second chance.

says Da Schniebo

Hey, maybe YOU can get the pussytard SpookyOtto to show us a picture of his 900 foot tall glassy-eyed Martians that are laying down, (so he says)? He won't do it for me, but maybe he'll do it for YOU. I would love to see those pics.

Mar 26, 2019
The followers of the God Scientism

SEU, you seem to have quite a following
as your motley collection of disciples
pay homage to your religious fervour
as, SEU
you
have even conjured
up
the Holy Ghost, in the form of SpookyOtto
it
is a rare privilege
SEU
to have Da Schneib paying homage at your feet
does
all this admiration go to your head, SEU
or
does it come with the territory
even though, SEU
Granville, is like a stick of Blackpool rock
an ardent Atheist through and through
come judgment day, SEU
Granville will be on the gates of Eternal Peace
directing yourself SEU and your motley collection of disciples
To that other house, where Beelzebub is keeping the fires warm for all your personal comfort

Mar 27, 2019
The followers of the God Scientism

SEU, you seem to have quite a following
as your motley collection of disciples
pay homage to your religious fervour
as, SEU you
have even conjured up the Holy Ghost, in the form of SpookyOtto
it is a rare privilege SEU
to have Da Schneib paying homage at your feet
does all this admiration go to your head, SEU
or does it come with the territory even though, SEU
Granville, is like a stick of Blackpool rock an ardent Atheist through and through
come judgment day, SEU Granville will be on the gates of Eternal Peace
directing yourself SEU and your motley collection of disciples
To that other house, where Beelzebub is keeping the fires warm for all your personal comfort
says granville

I try to educate these mortal fools, but to no avail. Thing is that SpookyOtto doesn't realise that "what is posted in physorg, stays in physorg" and that I have read almost ALL OF THE COMMENTS posted in physorg - just for fun and giggles.

Mar 27, 2019
The followers of the God Scientism

SEU, you seem to have quite a following
as your motley collection of disciples
pay homage to your religious fervour
says granville

Alas, I am not a religious propagandist. Had I been, I would have spewed fire and brimstone in my inimitable way. Here, in this physorg, I am but a mere scholar and an interested observer, trying to eke out a path to reconcile my belief in the reality of my Creator God, to my belief in the reality of good and honest scientific research resolutions.
Although I had requested a specific physorg Category called, "The Science of Religion" or "The Science of the Creation", nothing has come of it as yet. The "Religion of Science" would be unpopular.
But I have noticed that each physorg article that even smacks of Religion or the Religious in the title - the comments phorum becomes strangely filled up to the gills with Atheistic Atheists, or the undecided questioning. It is a curious and strange result.

Mar 27, 2019
and that I have read almost ALL OF THE COMMENTS posted in physorg - just for fun and giggles
Im not very good at math. Maybe stumpy could tell us how long this would take?

Otto for instance has almost 25k posts over 10yrs.

Aw what the heck - the freak known as SEU/pussycat_eyes/pussytard is an imbecile and a liar. A fair estimation.

Mar 27, 2019
So you're a troublemaker offline too. Got someone fired and went out of business, aye? You couldn't just go to another dealer. You HAD to cause trouble for a guy so that he can't feed his family and pay his bills. You moron.
So basically, you're OK with a business ripping people off, but not OK with them getting put out of business for ripping people off.

Noted. Fits right in with everyone's picture of your moral character.

Mar 27, 2019
And it's also worth noting that space transforms into time and vice versa, as proven by experiment. Not merely numerous times, but in every experiment ever conducted to check, with not a single one ever challenging it.

So if you can't say what space is made of, then you can't criticize anyone for not being able to say what time is made of; they're the same thing. Otherwise you couldn't interconvert them.

Mar 27, 2019
and that I have read almost ALL OF THE COMMENTS posted in physorg - just for fun and giggles
Im not very good at math. Maybe stumpy could tell us how long this would take?

Otto for instance has almost 25k posts over 10yrs.

Aw what the heck - the freak known as SEU/pussycat_eyes/pussytard is an imbecile and a liar. A fair estimation.
says the pussytard, SpookyOtto

WHY do you continue to LIE, Otto? And you speak about yourself using your name, Otto, instead of the first person singular, "I". You have dome this many times before. That is proof right there that it is YOU who had made all those sox that you are now denying.

Oh, by the way - I'm a fast reader so don't twist your ugly pointy head round and round trying to figure out how I'm able to read so many so fast.

Mar 27, 2019
And it's also worth noting that space transforms into time and vice versa, as proven by experiment. Not merely numerous times, but in every experiment ever conducted to check, with not a single one ever challenging it.

So if you can't say what space is made of, then you can't criticize anyone for not being able to say what time is made of; they're the same thing. Otherwise you couldn't interconvert them.

says Da Schitthead

LOL Now you say that space transforms into time? You do need a good psychiatrist even though there is no help for you. There are no experiments ever that have shown/proven such a lie. Show the link(s) to such experiments or stop telling lies.

Mar 27, 2019
and that I have read almost ALL OF THE COMMENTS posted in physorg - just for fun and giggles
Im not very good at math. Maybe stumpy could tell us how long this would take?

Otto for instance has almost 25k posts over 10yrs
it depends on the reading and comprehension speed of the person in question ... and whether the reader actually does comprehend the subject

You, otto, likely are able to read quite quickly and are literate, making you at the higher end of the bracket

eggy has demonstrated a very limited skill set with serious delusional religious and other beliefs that inhibit rational thought

there is also compelling circumstantial evidence that eggy is not a very speedy reader, however, this is limited in its accuracy due to the widespread availability of text-to-speech or similar products that would help mentally or physically challenged persons to function online

Mar 28, 2019
You, otto, likely are able to read quite quickly and are literate, making you at the higher end of the bracket
I know, right?
eggy has demonstrated a very limited skill set with serious delusional religious and other beliefs that inhibit rational thought
-which can cause frustration, leading to a serious lack of emotional control...
"Hey Blotto, how's your mama's pussy. I hear you've been giving her a good lickin and she still keeps on tickin, aye? Here puss puss. Oh BTW, how's your boyfriend Ritchieguy?..."DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU STICK YOUR FOOT UP YOUR ASS
The question is, why does she keep coming back???

Mar 28, 2019
The question is, why does she keep coming back???
mostly because you give her attention and track her down when she *respawns*

but then there is the negative feedback she gets from you and others which justifies her self loathing (martyr-victim)

there are plenty of indications that her life is filled with epic failure, not the least of which is her current religious beliefs of creationism mixed with an alien possession, so she likely needs some validation that her historical mistakes make her what she is, as well as attention validating her existence due to being a social pariah (likely for various reasons, including, but not limited to, mental problems), and this is the one place she thrives now that the moderators don't banhammer

Mar 28, 2019
The question is, why does she keep coming back???
mostly because you give her attention and track her down when she *respawns*

but then there is the negative feedback she gets from you and others which justifies her self loathing (martyr-victim)

there are plenty of indications that her life is filled with epic failure, not the least of which is her current religious beliefs of creationism mixed with an alien possession, so she likely needs some validation that her historical mistakes make her what she is, as well as attention validating her existence due to being a social pariah (likely for various reasons, including, but not limited to, mental problems), and this is the one place she thrives now that the moderators don't banhammer
says Captain Beelzebub

Why, then it's a good thing that SpookyOtto is so good at tracking her down when she "respawns". Is "she" by any chance a character in a video game that Otto plays? Religious beliefs again? You seem paranoid

Mar 28, 2019
Yes, this "she" creature that is filling the mind of SpookyOtto1923 in his every waking moment really SHOULD be expunged from this formerly wonderful science website - as it is causing SpookyOtto, Captain Dumpy and Da Schniebo no end of misery and pain so that these 3 feel the weight of this "she" creature who has, so far, gone unnamed, and have decided to take measures to be rid of this "she" by volunteering to become Unpaid Moderators for the physorg website in order to rid the site of all of the "she" whom they deem to be incompatible to their OWN plans to take over the physorg website for their own usage; whereby ONLY THOSE with whom these 3 are in perfect agreement will be allowed to remain in this website to comment all they wish.
However, their remaining in physorg to comment is dependent on how much of their personal and public information they are willing to give to Captain Dumpy and/or his brothers-in-arms.
IOW, no tickee, no laundry.
LOL

Mar 28, 2019
And it's also worth noting that space transforms into time and vice versa, as proven by experiment. Not merely numerous times, but in every experiment ever conducted to check, with not a single one ever challenging it.

So if you can't say what space is made of, then you can't criticize anyone for not being able to say what time is made of; they're the same thing. Otherwise you couldn't interconvert them.

says Da Schniebo

I'll ask you again. Show us the VALIDATED and CORROBORATED EVIDENCE that "SPACE TRANSFORMS INTO TIME" and vice versa. Links to papers, journals, other science website pages, and news articles will do just fine, DS.
Take your time. Don't get excited. Ask around for the validated evidence if you must. I have ~199 Earth years to wait for your answer. But I doubt that you will last that long. So do make haste if at all possible. Others here are also waiting.
Oh, and I've already said what Space is made of.

Mar 28, 2019
The followers of the God Scientism

SEU, you seem to have quite a following
as your motley collection of disciples
pay homage to your unreligious fervour
as, SEU
you
have even conjured
up
the Holy Ghost, in the form of SpookyOtto
it
is a rare privilege
SEU
to have Da Schneib paying homage at your feet
does
all this admiration go to your head, SEU
or
does it come with the territory
even though, SEU
Granville, is like a stick of Blackpool rock
an ardent Atheist through and through
come judgment day, SEU
Granville will be on the gates of Eternal Peace
directing yourself SEU and your motley collection of disciples
To that other house, where Beelzebub is keeping the fires warm for all your personal comfort
says granville

All the rest is as you say. :)
Your Atheistic Atheism is your personal choice; a very unwise choice, but still your own.
We are not allowed to tell you to choose wisely, so that your choice will have consequences, sadly.

Mar 28, 2019
as it is causing SpookyOtto, Captain Dumpy and Da Schniebo no end of misery and pain so that these 3 feel the weight of this "she" creature
So do you have cutsy names for everybody here who thinks youre a very sick person? 'Cause that would be everybody on this site, wouldnt it?

You freak.

Mar 28, 2019
as it is causing SpookyOtto, Captain Dumpy and Da Schniebo no end of misery and pain so that these 3 feel the weight of this "she" creature
So do you have cutsy names for everybody here who thinks youre a very sick person? 'Cause that would be everybody on this site, wouldnt it?

You freak.
says StinkyOtto

No Stinky. It is only YOU and your 2 boyfriends mentioned that can't stand to be proven wrong in so many topics. Take your time to come up with something insulting in your own mind.
As I have read so many of YOUR posts and the responses from others to you, it is now understood that you are a "drag queen" who can't get a job in a club at night, which is why you haunt the physorg science site for the purpose of spewing your hatred of women, babies, and humans in general.
And you are suffering from Dunning-Kruger from an early age.

Mar 31, 2019
@Seig I gave a more detailed response to this article in my'Religion: The Science & Psychology' facebook group.

The group can be found here:
https://www.faceb...stonjek/

And the specific response can be found here:
https://www.faceb...stonjek/permalink/2199315933447921/

You can take up the discussion there if you wish :)

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