New detector fails to confirm would-be evidence of dark matter

**New detector fails to confirm would-be evidence of dark matter
Brazilian researchers are participating in the COSINE-100 experiment, installed 700 meters underground in South Korea. An article on the first run of data has just been published in Nature . Credit: thallium-doped sodium iodide crystals in dark matter detector / COSINE-100

Almost 20 years ago, the DAMA/LIBRA experiment at Italy's Gran Sasso National Laboratory—LNGS began publishing data showing that it had detected a signal modulation produced by an interaction with the Milky Way's dark matter halo.

Dark matter is believed to constitute approximately 27 percent of the known universe, with ordinary matter accounting for only 4 percent. The remaining 69 percent is thought to be made up of . Because interacts weakly with normal matter, its presence has thus far been inferred only from gravitational effects on visible bodies such as stars, galaxies and galaxy clusters.

According to the most widely accepted model, the combined motion of the Earth, the sun and the galaxy itself result in a dark matter wind for an observer on the Earth—more specifically, a wind of or WIMPs, hypothetical particles that are thought to constitute dark matter.

During the Earth's annual orbit around the sun, signals from the detector's interaction with WIMPs increase when the planet moves in the opposite direction to the wind and decrease when they are both moving in the same direction. The fluctuation has a cosine shape.

DAMA/LIBRA personnel state that it has detected signals at rates that vary according to a cosine wave during the year and that they correspond to a dark matter signature. The problem is that no such signature has been confirmed by any other experiments since this was first announced. It should be stressed that other experiments use different materials and analytical techniques.

To check the discrepancy between DAMA/LIBRA's data and the data from other experiments and to look for robust evidence of dark matter, COSINE-100 was built 700 meters underground at the Yangyang Underground Laboratory—Y2L in South Korea.

An article presenting the results of the first 59.5 days of data from COSINE-100 was published in December 2018 in the journal Nature.

Nelson Carlin Filho, Professor at the University of São Paulo's Physics Institute (IF-USP) and two supervisees constitute the Brazilian participation in the COSINE-100 international collaboration. "The results of the first 59.5 days of COSINE-100 failed to confirm the data from DAMA/LIBRA. The results obtained don't correspond to a signature of WIMPs," he said. Carlin stressed that this negative finding is particularly important because both DAMA/LIBRA and COSINE-100 use detectors made of sodium iodide (Nal) crystals. "It's the first published finding for a detector comprising this material with sufficient size and sensitivity to investigate the DAMA/LIBRA signal region," he said.

"We're not saying the researchers at DAMA/LIBRA were wrong. They may have captured a periodic modulation in actual signals. However, unless the dark matter model is significantly modified, the signals are highly unlikely to be attributed to interactions with WIMPs. In any event, our work is only just beginning. Several years of data will be needed before the annual modulation claimed by DAMA/LIBRA can be totally confirmed or refuted."

The COSINE-100 detector is made up of eight thallium-doped sodium iodide crystals with a total mass of 106 kg. Each crystal is coupled to two photomultiplier tubes to measure the amount of energy deposited in the crystal. The entire array is immersed in 2,200 liters of liquid scintillator and surrounded by copper, lead and plastic scintillator panels.

The point of all this shielding—as well as the decision to install the detector 700 meters underground—is to reduce disturbances caused by cosmic rays (muons), (photons remaining from the primordial universe, detected in the microwave band), and particles emitted by the materials of which the detector is made.

"The probability of observing interactions between dark matter particles and the detector material is tiny. Apart from shielding, it's important to analyze the shape of the signals in order to rule out background contributions," Carlin said.

Based on a highly sophisticated statistical treatment using the standard model for the dark matter halo, with Monte Carlo simulations and other resources, COSINE-100 defined a curve considered the "exclusion limit" for interactions between WIMPs and the nuclei in the detector material.

This limit corroborated and fine-tuned the limits established by previous experiments. The curve was plotted using a two-dimensional Cartesian coordinate system. The WIMP-nucleon scattering cross-sections are shown on the Y-axis, simplistically representing the probability of interactions, while the WIMP mass is shown on the X-axis.

Any event whose coordinates can be plotted below the exclusion limit is a candidate WIMP-nucleon interaction. Any event situated above it fails to meet the necessary conditions for an interaction in accordance with the model.

"The DAMA/LIBRA signals are above the exclusion limit. Note that in addition to using detectors made of the same material as DAMA/LIBRA [sodium iodide crystals], COSINE-100 also used similar event selection techniques. This minimized discrepancies in results due to differences in the experiments. We didn't find dark matter and we discovered that the DAMA/LIBRA measurements aren't consistent with the standard model for the ," Carlin said.

Theories about dark matter

There is now a broad consensus in the scientific community that dark matter exists. The first evidence was found in 1933 in studies of galactic rotation speeds by Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky (1898-1974).

Zwicky realized that galactic rotation speeds were faster than they should have been according to the observed luminous mass and proposed that the gravitational contribution of another kind of matter, which he called "dunkle materie" ("dark matter" in German), must be affecting these speeds.

In the 1970s, American astronomer Vera Rubin (1928-2016) confirmed Zwicky's hypothesis in a systematic study of galactic rotation speeds. Rubin's rigorous calculations, confirmed by subsequent research, showed that the galaxies concerned must contain at least five to 10 times more dark matter than normal matter.

Today, based on galactic rotation speeds and other evidence such as gravitational lensing, first proposed by Einstein, and the background microwave radiation, the accepted proportions for the composition of the universe are approximately 4 percent normal matter, 27 percent dark matter and 69 percent dark energy.

If the existence of dark matter is widely accepted; the point now is to determine what it is made of. The WIMP-based model is still the most widely accepted model. Such particles are believed to interact with normal matter only through gravity and the weak nuclear force. This is presumably why they have not been consistently detected. The failure to detect WIMPs has led scientists to propose alternatives such as axions and dark photons.

"There's nothing to prevent dark from being made up of several different elements," Carlin said. "A great deal of work remains to be done. In our case, COSINE-100 is still taking its first steps. The next step, which is very important, is to try to reproduce the annual modulation or prove it can't be reproduced. This is actually in progress right now. We're also preparing phase two of the experiment, COSINE-200, with 200 kg of crystals, to be installed at a different site in South Korea."


Explore further

COSINE-100 experiment investigates dark matter mystery

More information: An experiment to search for dark-matter interactions using sodium iodide detectors, Nature (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41586-018-0739-1
Journal information: Nature

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Jan 24, 2019
All the news on WIMPs over the past 12+ months has been negative, the theory is pretty much dead now but unlike string theory and loop quantum gravity, WIMPs actually had a small chance of getting up.

Physics does very well when extending current theory to new discoveries via observation and experiment, but has not done so well when making up models from whole cloth eg Loop Quantum Gravity, String Theory, Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Dark Radiation, Inflation etc etc all failure thus far, some, like string theory and WIMPs, have now been all but confirmed to be failures. Models based on human intuition inevitably fail eg the the fixed background space and background clock of Newtonian theory, phlogiston, the luminiferous ether etc.

Jan 24, 2019
The crisis in fundamental physics continues. Historians are going to look at the past 30 years as a waste of time

Jan 24, 2019
Please, please, stop this nonsense of trying to find something that doesn't exist, and you can save us lots of $$$. Years from now though it will make a good laugh. An expensive laugh.

Jan 24, 2019
" Years from now though it will make a good laugh."

Why wait....it's hilarious now.
" An expensive laugh."
Indeed.

Jan 24, 2019
An expensive laugh.

You don't really understand how science works, do you?

If we could make experiments that always come out positive then we wouldn't need experiments at all. We'd be omniscient gods.,

Jan 24, 2019
Please, please, stop this nonsense of trying to find something that doesn't exist

like your 'god'?

Jan 24, 2019
"You don't really understand how science works, do you?"

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If "dark matter" is an example of science "working"....please provide an example of a failure.

"like your 'god'?"

OOOOOhhh....a "you shit on my beliefs so I will shit on yours" response... very catty.

Jan 24, 2019
Dark matter is a supersolid that fills 'empty' space, strongly interacts with ordinary matter and is displaced by ordinary matter. What is referred to geometrically as curved spacetime physically exists in nature as the state of displacement of the supersolid dark matter. The state of displacement of the supersolid dark matter is gravity.

The supersolid dark matter displaced by a galaxy pushes back, causing the stars in the outer arms of the galaxy to orbit the galactic center at the rate in which they do.

Displaced supersolid dark matter is curved spacetime.

Jan 24, 2019
Bah! Those drunken deities screwed up reality.

Now, we are stuck with trying to make sense out of this mess. What has been accomplished is to get bits & pieces of Real Science theories to sort of work, now & again.

The difference between Real Scientists & the fraud wooloons
is that real science manages to cobble together working technology. Even if it doesn't work perfectly.

"Perfection is the enemy of, hey, we need to get on with our lives!"

The poseur mountebanks & prestidigitators?
Over the last few centuries?
Have totally failed to produce any working device more advanced than a ouija board!

Jan 24, 2019
You don't really understand how science works, do you?


That's been shown to be the case time and again.

Jan 24, 2019

OOOOOhhh....a "you shit on my beliefs so I will shit on yours" response... very catty.


At least you can crap on all the technology, and working physical manifestations of the validity of science and the scientific method.

We can't have the joy of actually crapping on your beliefs because they only exist in the associations of your neurons that make up your imagination, and I don't believe crapping on your head would be good or useful for anyone.

Jan 24, 2019
There are two parts to science, theory and observation. Theories guide proposing, creating, and running experiments in attempts to falsify theories. These theories can never be proved right--just wrong. The physics that is taught consists mostly of theories which have not been disproven yet.

So what about DM? On the scale of galaxies, there is a gravitational effect about 6 times that of ordinary matter. Something exists. Within the solar system, gravity produces a perfect fit to observation with no room for DM. So experiments on Earth are doomed to never find significant amounts of dark matter. Some DM might be found in the cores of planets and the sun, but not very much.

So experiments trying to find DM near the surface of the Earth, like COSINE 100, are doomed to failure. Not failure of theories, but due to trillions of observations which account for all local gravity. Trillions? Sure every time you use GPS you verify gravity models.

Jan 24, 2019
There is now a broad consensus in the scientific community that dark matter exists.

Hmmmm, here I thought science wasn't an exercise in the democratic process. I wonder how one can vote on such a thing? Is there a "science" polling place? Do they vote on AGWism at the same polling place as where the darkists place their votes? What a joke!

Jan 24, 2019
There is now a broad consensus in the scientific community that dark matter exists.

Hmmmm, here I thought science wasn't an exercise in the democratic process. I wonder how one can vote on such a thing? Is there a "science" polling place? Do they vote on AGWism at the same polling place as where the darkists place their votes? What a joke!


You and your fellow cultists are irrelevant to the debate, given that none of them is remotely qualified to hold an opinion. People who believe that Saturn used to be a brown dwarf, and that Earth orbited it, are not to be taken seriously. About anything.

Jan 24, 2019
A possible compounding factor may be the Solar Cycle.
Its variations in solar wind etc modulate the ingress of galactic 'cosmic rays'.
http://spaceweather.com/
Although those are allowed for, perhaps the outflow modulates 'Dark Matter' passage, too ??
Too early to say, decades of data required...

D'uh, look how long it took to reliably detect neutrinos, then the apparent short-fall in their solar output, which led to the discovery that neutrinos morph, so must have non-zero rest mass...
Investigation of such nigh-intractable problems may be, literally, multi-generational...

Jan 24, 2019
cant? Sir Isaac Newton would laugh at you. For broaching the inane & insane concept that science is democratic process.

Then he'd beat your peasant ignorance black & blue to drive out the demons infesting your pointed head!

Jan 24, 2019
Yet another blow to the DAMA/LIBRA results. Doesn't look after all this time like they're going to find out how they screwed up, either. This is like the neutrino faster-than-light thing the Italians came up with back in the naughty oughties except they found out how they screwed that one up.

Jan 24, 2019
High energy physicists have been conditioned to ask for money by claiming to validate the big bang theory. That's how science works when it comes to very expensive high energy physics gear in a field that has been politicized into an economic reality of pseudo-science:

(1) First they think of what they want and need to explore the physics of the very small,

(2) Then, they figure out how they can simultaneously use the thing to claim to study something else in such a way that patches the big bang theory,

(3) Then, they get the money.

So it's no big loss if these scientists are still happily studying other stuff they originally set out to study.

You can watch them admitting and laughing about it in documentaries about supercolliders, actually. lol.

Jan 25, 2019
High energy particle physicists don't work on the Big Bang.

On Earth.

It's like claiming that zoologists are part of a vast ginormous vaccine conspiracy.

Jan 25, 2019
So how much did that experiment cost? It seems that the one I built in my basement for $20, out of duct tape, a battery and some wires, performed just as well.

Jan 25, 2019
Sad day when atheist scientists come out screaming and say that YOU don't know what science is about. No need to throw any more pearls before these swine.

Jan 25, 2019
Bart thinks jebus made zoologists.

Jan 25, 2019
What is going on in this comment section? What a bizarre argument. An experiment disproves a hypothesis, so we yell at the scientists? I don't understand the cause and effect here. I would also point out that arguments about god don't have any place in discussions about science.

Let me point out that the indirect evidence for the existence of dark matter is actually very persuasive. We are searching for a way to directly detect it because we want to learn more about it. It may well be that dark matter exists, but truly interacts only through gravity. In that case, the search will eventually end with only negative results. But, those negative results will themselves constitute valuable knowledge.

All this arguing only serves to highlight how clueless some people are.

Jan 25, 2019
@Da Schneib,

Well if you watch the documentaries about building CERN that's exactly what they pitch: the Big Bang. Specifically: studying conditions that mimic the universe in the instants right after the Big Bang, Funny how you can fit the Big Bang into almost any funding request, almost like global warming. Lol.

Jan 25, 2019
And they were joking about it on camera while admitting they really just wanted to get to the bottom of quantum physics, wherever that leads. Lol.

Jan 25, 2019
Metaphysical creation stories abound since time immemorial. Most often, they have been dictated by whoever was in charge.

Perhaps the world lies on the back of a giant turtle; and, it produces a lot of dark matter?

Jan 25, 2019
What is going on in this comment section?...
Let me point out that the indirect evidence for the existence of dark matter is actually very persuasive. We are searching for a way to directly detect it because we want to learn more about it.....

That's what is so frustrating. It took me a few days of reading to notice that its not any "extra matter" that is causing the galactic velocity profiles. So why is it taking them so long to notice this. ... It makes me think that they already noticed that there is no "extra matter" a long time ago, but prefer to just keep the sillier story going. Or, maybe its some weird psychological effect that makes them stick to the wrong story, to not look like fools.

It has happened before, plenty of times. I am reminded of the notion that at one time there were canals on Mars, until there weren't, etc.

Jan 25, 2019
The red shift may not necessarily indicate velocity, not entirely. At very long distances, it may also have something to do with the quality or speed of light, or the medium.

Hubble agreed with that statement.

Jan 25, 2019
@arcmetal

Explain galactic rotational curves.

Jan 25, 2019
axemaster, your misunderstanding is that you believe these comments are about physical sciences.

No siree! These comments are all about Mental Health & Social Sciences.

Jan 25, 2019
What is going on in this comment section? What a bizarre argument. An experiment disproves a hypothesis, so we yell at the scientists? I don't understand the cause and effect here. I would also point out that arguments about god don't have any place in discussions about science.

Let me point out that the indirect evidence for the existence of dark matter is actually very persuasive. We are searching for a way to directly detect it because we want to learn more about it. It may well be that dark matter exists, but truly interacts only through gravity. In that case, the search will eventually end with only negative results. But, those negative results will themselves constitute valuable knowledge.

All this arguing only serves to highlight how clueless some people are.


.......and how clueless that someone teaching a glorified kinematics physics course is for going on the kind of rant so often embarked upon by the Pop-Cosmology fantasy culture, YOU.

Jan 25, 2019
Explain galactic rotational curves.


Spiral or elliptical? There are no dark matter effects in elliptical galaxies, proving it makes no sense.

Jan 25, 2019
Explain galactic rotational curves.


Spiral or elliptical? There are no dark matter effects in elliptical galaxies, proving it makes no sense.


Exactly right, the outermost orbitals of Ellipticals orbit the host galaxy within the orbital mechanics established via Newtonian Gravity.

Another thing, Ellipticals make up 2/3 the mass of the Universe, therefore we should not expect to find DM Cosmic Fairy dust where the conditions do not warrant (that is in 2/3 of the Universe)........but we still do not find it where the conditions supposedly do warrant it, quite a conundrum huh?

I know, maybe there's a kinematics physics instructor from MIT in house who can explain it without going on a name calling rant? Right, axeo?

Jan 25, 2019
This fits wioth that the recent measurement of the electron being, so far, perfectly round [ https://arstechni...at-mean/ , http://www.electronedm.org/ ]. That killed off most of the expected WIMP parameter space [ https://www.natur...8-0599-8 ].

Jan 25, 2019
Doesn't look after all this time like they're going to find out how they screwed up


Why not, it is not like outsiders have dug into all the details, say. In fact, I seem to remember a new hypothesis in the last few months (that DAM/LIBRA use a type of detector that is sensitive to helium, which is can collect in mines depending on temperature).

So for the usual nasty and mostly irrelevant criticism of useful science. One comment though questioned the cost, which is relevant, but basic science is curiosity driven and science at large always pay, it is no good to put bean counters on choosing experiments. Another comment that is relevant notes that particle physics is relevant to cosmology and vice versa (and also implies cost criticism) which is a useful symbiosis.

I have to pitch in with axemaster how one goes from finding out that DM is not WIMPs to testing DM at all? Especially since the article describes how DM is an observation and by many independent means!

Jan 25, 2019
Within the solar system, gravity produces a perfect fit to observation with no room for DM. So experiments on Earth are doomed to never find significant amounts of dark matter. Some DM might be found in the cores of planets and the sun, but not very much.

So experiments trying to find DM near the surface of the Earth, like COSINE 100, are doomed to failure.


Are you saying that the scientists have not considered this? Of course they have. Total DM in the system is about one large asteroid worth so not gravitationally relevant as you say, but the dispersed DM flow means that a WIMP would hit a nucleus in a piece of matter of human mass every year. This underlies passive WIMP search such as DAMA/LIBRA.

Jan 25, 2019
There are no dark matter effects in elliptical galaxies


Structure formation on all scles from cosmological filaments over galaxy clusters and galaxies down to dwarf galaxies is spawned and best predicted by dark matter since models caught up with phenomena the last few years. " Now, hydrodynamic simulations have begun to produce the right number of galaxies of the right masses and shapes—spiral disks, squat ellipticals, spherical dwarfs, and oddball irregulars—says Volker Springel, a cosmologist at the Heidelberg Institute for Theoretical Studies in Germany who worked on Millennium and leads the Illustris simulation." [ https://www.scien...s-cosmic ]

The superstitious comments are irrelevant and forgettable; if they still troll for religious 'gods' or 'souls' they are no better than astrology and homeopathy since evidence now say these things don't exist.

Jan 25, 2019
@torbjorn_b_g_larsson,
@axemaster,
@hat1208.

@torbjorn said:
Structure formation on all scales from cosmological filaments over galaxy clusters and galaxies down to dwarf galaxies is spawned and best predicted by dark matter since models caught up with phenomena the last few years. " Now, hydrodynamic simulations have begun to produce the right number of galaxies of the right masses and shapes—spiral disks, squat ellipticals, spherical dwarfs, and oddball irregulars—says Volker Springel, a cosmologist at the Heidelberg Institute for Theoretical Studies in Germany who worked on Millennium and leads the Illustris simulation."
Please catch up with latest mainstream discoveries/review re VAST FINDS of ORDINARY (previously too faint) MATTER:

https://phys.org/...html#jCp

All theoretical simulations and observed lensings are actually reflecting ALL THAT EXTRA NEWFOUND ORDINARY ( not 'exotic' DM) MATTER. No 'exotic' label needed. :)

Jan 25, 2019
@hat1208
@arcmetal

Explain galactic rotational curves.

These give good hints, that its not "extra matter":
https://universe-...qs04.htm

https://arxiv.org...012.1384

https://arxiv.org...02.02734

Also, a while back I had re-posted someone else's description of an application of Newton's equations that describes the galactic rotation using a density of mass, rather than with point masses. If I find that post, and can add that here again.

Jan 25, 2019
@hat1208

I found my earlier post from 2016: (originally from nanobanano 2011)

https://phys.org/...ton.html


Jan 25, 2019

Oh DS & bjorn & axe & fat & whomever you think deserves this
I have a gift I found today online
https://www.quant...0170221/
What [oqued my interest?
When sge said
"You cannot lie to mathematics!"

enjoy...

Ass for unrealcheckbounced, it is you woomongers & godlooms who insist DM imust be an "exotic" substance. Or, it cannot exist. No matter the observed influences.

Real Scientists speculate, then do the hard work to prove or disapprove their hypothesis.

You & the other bots & artificial stupids such as bennitwittery & the flattirepillock contribute nothing but whinge.

Whatever is at the root of the DM phenomena?
It is a certainty that none of you will ever gain any credit for other people's accomplishments.

Jan 25, 2019
I'm not sure if I did that correctly. If I screwed up?

It was an interview in today's online edition of Quanta. Doing an interview with Sylvia Serfaty.

& quoting her saying
"You cannot lie to the mathematics!"

Jan 25, 2019
@rrwillsj.
Ass for unrealcheckbounced, it is you woomongers & godlooms who insist DM imust be an "exotic" substance. Or, it cannot exist. No matter the observed influences.

Real Scientists speculate, then do the hard work to prove or disapprove their hypothesis.

You & the other bots & artificial stupids such as bennitwittery & the flattirepillock contribute nothing but whinge.

Whatever is at the root of the DM phenomena?
It is a certainty that none of you will ever gain any credit for other people's accomplishments
FYI: I'm NEITHER 'woomonger' NOR 'godloom', mate. :)

Original DM posited by Fritz Zwicky was ORDINARY matter; ie, E-M *and* GRAV interacting.

It was years LATER that MAINSTREAM 'theorists' claimed DM interacted ONLY via GRAV and NOT E-M.

Hence the 'exotic' DM tag was effectively BY MAINSTREAM ITSELF.

Whereas I have always held to Zwicky's original ORDINARY 'dark matter' hypothesis; which has long been confirmed correct; as pointed out above. :)

Jan 25, 2019
@rrwillsj.

It was an interview in today's online edition of Quanta. Doing an interview with Sylvia Serfaty.

& quoting her saying
"You cannot lie to the mathematics!"
Did you mean to quote this?...
"In Mathematics, 'You Cannot Be Lied To'"
Which is true IF you are strictly sticking to the AXIOMATICALLY driven LOGICAL conclusions therefrom. :)

However, when APPLYING Mathematical techniques etc, the well known GIGO (Garbage In Garbage Out) principle should be borne in mind at all times!

The most insidious false conclusions potential is when mathematics is applied in STATISTICAL analysis.

Hence the well known saying: "There are lies; there are damned lies; and then there are statistics!"

Take extra care NOT to confuse mathematical axioms/proofs etc, with the application of mathematical techniques etc...which latter may OR MAY NOT be valid or proper in the way/analysis it is being applied in/to, @rrwillsj. :)

Jan 26, 2019
At least you can crap on all the technology, and working physical manifestations of the validity of science and the scientific method. We can't have the joy of actually crapping on your beliefs because they only exist in the associations of your neurons that make up your imagination, and I don't believe crapping on your head would be good or useful for anyone.

@TuringTest. Exactly. Science is crappable, while religion is uncrappable (i.e. unfalsifiable). The problem however lies with the rise of uncrappable parts of science in the last few decades like string theory. Still, to my knowledge string theory requires supersymmetry to work, so it can be partially tested (only refuted). If supersymmetry turns out to be merely fancy math then so is string theory. How much do you want to bet though that string theorists will try to modify it so that it no longer requires supersymmetry? It can be hard to let go of something you've worked on for decades.

Jan 26, 2019
@Axe
What is going on in this comment section?
just another day with the loonies at phys.org... and even so, it's a few nuts shy of a bushel without zeph chiming in
All this arguing only serves to highlight how clueless some people are
yup... but it's the only way they can get any attention

I'm thinking the site gave up on its moderation for the most part because it's the idiots who pad the numbers on the site generating revenue, even if most are socks


Jan 27, 2019
Speaking of loonies

"Sir Roger Penrose, and his Erebon field theory, a novel explanation of dark matter... hope we will be able to find some dark force, a portal into the dark world. Such a "dark photon" would be dark matter's equivalent of a photon, the way that dark matter particles interact with one another."

"...proposes a solution that points to the existence of an aeon before the Big Bang. Correlated noise in the two LIGO gravitational-wave detectors may provide evidence that the universe is governed by conformal cyclic cosmology (CCC) which assumes that the universe consists of a succession of aeons, "the boundaries of infinity," speculates Penrose of the University of Oxford. "The Big Bang was not the origin of our universe," he observed."

"...erebons are extremely heavy and have masses of about 10–5 g"

-thats all, lost interest. BTW dr penrose also thinks consciousness is quantum flux in brain microtubules.

Jan 27, 2019
they are no better than astrology and homeopathy since evidence now say these things don't exist
-except for this

"The power that governs the destiny of all living beings is called the Eagle, not because it is an eagle or has anything to do with an eagle, but because it appears to the eye of the seer as an immeasurable jet-black eagle, standing erect as an eagle stands, its height reaching to infinity.

"The Eagle devours the awareness of all the creatures that, alive on earth a moment before and now dead, have floated to the Eagle's beak like a swarm of fireflies to meet their owner; their reason for having had life.

"The Eagle disentangles these tiny flames, lays them flat, as a tanner stretches out a hide, and then consumes them; for awareness is the Eagle's food."

-Ask don Juan Matus, yaqui bruno. Now eat your mushrooms.

Jan 28, 2019
"Everything is made of particles". That is bad thinking. Just because the 4-5% of "normal" matter is made of particles, the other 95-96% is also????

We had better start thinking differently if we are going to ever see the structure(s) of this other 95%. Physics is stalled right now and has been for some time. The current methods are not working and to throw "good money after bad", as they say in the gambling world, is just plain idiocy.

Jan 28, 2019
"Everything is made of particles". That is bad thinking. Just because the 4-5% of "normal" matter is made of particles, the other 95-96% is also????

We had better start thinking differently if we are going to ever see the structure(s) of this other 95%. Physics is stalled right now and has been for some time. The current methods are not working and to throw "good money after bad", as they say in the gambling world, is just plain idiocy.

If people at least started noticing this much, it would be a good first step.

As someone once said: "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.."

Jan 29, 2019
Are you saying that the scientists have not considered this? Of course they have. Total DM in the system is about one large asteroid worth so not gravitationally relevant as you say, but the dispersed DM flow means that a WIMP would hit a nucleus in a piece of matter of human mass every year. This underlies passive WIMP search such as DAMA/LIBRA.


I would say at most a small asteroid, but that is irrelevant. If there are WIMPs in the solar system, look for them in, or near, the Sun and Jupiter.

If, and that's a big if, WIMPs circulate from the center of the galaxy and back again, you must postulate a repulsion effect to keep them from all falling into the black holes near the galactic center. That effect would steer the WIMPs away from the sun, which is a relatively large star.

Me? I'm betting on supersymmetric particles which may interact with the weak force (or strong force) but not electromagnetism. All we need is a theory that explains why they don't decay.

Feb 05, 2019
The only WIMPs left are the physicists too afraid to let go of a failed theory and admit that we simply don't know the answer.

Historically, we always held on to a world view only venturing out from the shadow of religion when there was a convincing alternative to believe in. Science did that and the grey areas were all to be illuminated in time and we were confident of the kind of model that would develop. We have never stepped out into the unknown, never said that we don't know what is out there and so we are wimps when it comes to facing up to the inadequacies of our current state of knowledge.

Let's stop pretending that we know more than we actually do.

…and thank goodness we've left something for the next generation to chew on…

Feb 11, 2019
When I taught Compiler Construction, as part of the first day I would bring up Gödel's proofs and the halting problem. My point was that when building any kind of a compiler you can't ignore these limits to knowledge. The best you can do is try to balance the issues.

There is no such thing as a bug-free compiler. There are either correct programs which it will reject or incorrect programs that will be accepted. Or both. The intent of most developers is to produce a compiler that rejects few correct programs and accepts no illegal programs.

Why is this important here? You may or may not believe in God, but the universe prohibits us from knowing some things. And there are recursive cases. If P=NP is unprovable, then that fact itself is unprovable. Oops! A very good area of research to avoid.

It is possible that the same sort of situation applies to dark matter: No individual particle can be seen, and maybe no individual particles exist.

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