China begins first surface exploration of moon's far side

January 4, 2019 by Ken Moritsugu
This photo provided on Jan. 3, 2019, by China National Space Administration via Xinhua News Agency shows an image taken by China's Chang'e-4 probe during its landing process. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. The lunar explorer Chang'e 4 touched down at 10:26 a.m., China Central Television said in a brief announcement at the top of its noon news broadcast. (China National Space Administration/Xinhua News Agency via AP)

A Chinese space rover explored the lunar terrain on Friday in the world's first mission on the surface of the far side of the moon.

Jade Rabbit 2 drove off a ramp the previous night and onto the soft, powdery surface after a Chinese spacecraft made the first-ever soft landing on the moon's far side. A photo posted online by China's space agency showed tracks left by the rover as it headed away from the spacecraft.

"It's a small step for the rover, but one giant leap for the Chinese nation," Wu Weiren, the chief designer of the Lunar Exploration Project, told state broadcaster CCTV, in a twist of U.S. astronaut Neil Armstrong's famous comment when he became the first human to walk on the moon in 1969. "This giant leap is a decisive move for our exploration of space and the conquering of the universe."

Previous moon landings, including America's six manned missions from 1969 to 1972, have been on the near side of the moon, which faces Earth. The far side has been observed many times from lunar orbits, but never explored on the surface.

China's space community is taking pride in the successful landing, which posed technical challenges because the moon blocks direct communication between the spacecraft and its controllers on Earth. China has been trying to catch up with the United States and other nations in space exploration.

In this photo provided on Thursday, Jan. 3, 2019, by China National Space Administration via Xinhua News Agency, Yutu-2, China's lunar rover, leaves wheel marks after leaving the lander that touched down on the surface of the far side of the moon. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. The lunar explorer Chang'e 4 touched down at 10:26 a.m., China Central Television said in a brief announcement at the top of its noon news broadcast. (China National Space Administration/Xinhua News Agency via AP)
"The landing on the far side shows China's technology is powerful," said He Qisong, a space expert at the East China University of Science and Law in Shanghai.

While China's space program still lags America's, He said "China has already positioned itself at least as good as Russia and the European Union."

The news cheered people on the streets of Beijing on Friday, many of whom said it showed that China can now achieve or even surpass what the United States has done.

In this photo provided on Jan. 3, 2019, by the China National Space Administration via Xinhua News Agency, an image taken by China's Chang'e-4 probe after its landing. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. The lunar explorer Chang'e 4 touched down at 10:26 a.m., China Central Television said in a brief announcement at the top of its noon news broadcast. (China National Space Administration/Xinhua News Agency via AP)
"I think this is very good evidence that we are now able to compete with the Americans," said energy company employee Yao Dajun. "You can get on the moon and so can we—I think this is very good. It means our science and technology ability is getting stronger and the country is becoming more powerful."

The news inspired dreamier thoughts for advertising employee Shang Yuegang. "Probably after some years ordinary people like us can also travel up there to take a look," he said.

The Chinese rover has six powered wheels, allowing it to continue to operate even if one wheel fails. It has a maximum speed of 200 meters (220 yards) per hour and can climb a 20-degree hill or an obstacle up to 20 centimeters (8 inches) tall.

China begins first surface exploration of moon's far side (Update)
In this image provided on Jan. 3, 2019, by China's Xinhua News Agency, a simulated landing process of Chang'e-4 lunar probe is seen through the monitor at Beijing Aerospace Control Center in Beijing. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, 2019, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. (Jin Liwang/Xinhua News via AP)
"The surface is soft and it is similar to that when you are walking on the snow," rover designer Shen Zhenrong of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation said on CCTV.

Exploring the cosmos from the far side of the moon could eventually help scientists learn more about the early days of the solar system and even the birth of the universe's first stars. The far side is popularly called the "dark side" because it can't be seen from Earth and is relatively unknown, not because it lacks sunlight.

In this photo provided Jan. 3, 2019, by China National Space Administration via Xinhua News Agency, the first image of the moon's far side taken by China's Chang'e-4 probe. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. The lunar explorer Chang'e 4 touched down at 10:26 a.m., China Central Television said in a brief announcement at the top of its noon news broadcast.(China National Space Administration/Xinhua News Agency via AP)
China begins first surface exploration of moon's far side (Update)
In this Dec. 8, 2018, file photo, and released by Xinhua News Agency, the Chang'e 4 lunar probe launches from the the Xichang Satellite Launch Center in southwestern China's Sichuan province. The official China Central Television says Thursday, Jan. 3, 2019, the lunar explorer Chang'e 4 had touched down at 10:26 a.m to make first-ever landing on the far side of the moon. (Jiang Hongjing/Xinhua via AP, File)

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granville583762
2.3 / 5 (6) Jan 04, 2019
Moonchine

This darkside regolith
at -150 centigrade
without the presence of water
will allow moon dust to settle on these darkside valley floors
as is does on rocky comets that have been photographed
with dust laden valley floors
and apparently
in the moon in shadow
the lowest temperatures have been recorded at - 238 centigrade
than on Planet Pluto
strange as this seems
that Planet Pluto has warmer coldest Pluto temperatures
than the moon in shadow
what is even stranger concerning the moon in shadow
even though it is closer to the sun than Planet Pluto
the moon in shadow at - 238 centigrade has the coldest temperatures in the solar system
so
these Moonchines
are in for nippy nocturnal times
because
this is their Moonchine
on the darkside
Permanently in shadow
V4Vendicar
1 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2019
Viva China.

LOL America
smartist
not rated yet Jan 04, 2019
Can we please have higher resolution pics?
Itar_Pejo
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2019
@V4Vendicar Yes, this is a big achievement for China and one big bravo for them but don`t forget that USA just landed another lander on mars and also has other few still operating rovers there. Also don`t forget the historic flyby of the furthest object ever imaged by the new horizons probe. That`s no LOL definitely!
Old_C_Code
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2019
on the darkside
Permanently in shadow


There is no dark side of the moon, just a far side of the moon. Tidally locked to Earth but not to the Sun.
dsylvan
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2019
@Wo Weiren
"It's a small step for the rover, but one giant leap for the Chinese nation,... This giant leap is a decisive move for our exploration of space and the conquering of the universe."

It seems that lack of originality in both bragging and technological achievement is no impediment to Chinese ambition. Not that that's original to the Chinese.
cardzeus
1 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2019
'the lowest temperatures have been recorded at - 238 centigrade' - Impossible, that's lower than absolute zero, fool.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Jan 04, 2019
Wow, so, propaganda much?

I mean, congratulations and stuff, but is all this really necessary? And do you think no one will notice?
granville583762
5 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
Thermodynamics near absolute zero −273.15 °C
cardzeus> 'the lowest temperatures have been recorded at - 238 centigrade' - Impossible, that's lower than absolute zero, fool.

At temperatures near 0 K −273.15 °C −459.67 °F nearly all molecular motion cease

By international agreement, absolute zero is taken as −273.15° on the Celsius scale
https://en.wikipe...ute_zero

Space.com
The Diviner instrument on NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter measured temperatures of - 238 C in craters at the southern pole and -247 C in a crater at the northern pole.
These super-cold brightness temperatures are, to our knowledge, among the lowest that have been measured anywhere in the solar system, including the surface of Pluto David Paige, Diviner's principal investigator and a UCLA professor of planetary science, said in a 2009
https://www.space...ure.html
granville583762
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
It's permanently in shadow now
on the darkside
Permanently in shadow

Old_C_Code> There is no dark side of the moon, just a far side of the moon. Tidally locked to Earth but not to the Sun.

By the time the light dawned, the time ran out
So now, it's permanently in shadow
Da Schneib
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
All this stuff about how "powerful" China is and "conquering the universe" really makes me nervous.

There's this thing colloquially called the "Outer Space Treaty," formally "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies." "Conquering the universe" is contrary to the principles of this treaty, but given how China seems to feel free to violate treaties, like I said this makes me nervous.

Do they think they've "conquered" the dark side of the Moon? Will they shoot at anyone who decides to explore it, like in the South China Sea?
Da Schneib
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
Once again, because it needs to be said: I don't intend to be jingoistic or belittle the achievement of the Chinese in landing a probe on the far side of the Moon. Congratulations to them. But I note with interest that Armstrong said "We come in peace for all mankind." And I don't hear anything like that from China. Instead we get how "powerful" China is and how they're going to "conquer the universe."

Not good. Not good at all.
rrwillsj
3 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
Since when have pretty words, soft words ever enforced mutual respect?

DS, if I am misjudging the intent of your words? Please feel free to correct me. I ain't afraid to be wrong. I ain't afraid to reconsider my opinion when someone with your caliber of knowledge & education, so generously takes the time too "school" me. Even when I prove to be the class clown!

Frankly & Ermestly, I do not approve of the tone of your comments.

With centuries pf chronic hostile activities by the Inoted States against the peoples & governments of China? Why do you feel betrayed that they refuse to trust us? & insist on creating their own future. Without your permission or regulation ?

Name one, just one treaty, the USofA has ever kept to? In full faith & honor? Without cookng the books & embezzling the profits? Where the other nations did not go away grumbling their suspicions?

Perhaps some of our long-term allies or a First Nation indignant (sic) would care to comment?
Phyllis Harmonic
5 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2019
on the darkside Permanently in shadow


There is no "dark side" of the moon. There is a "far side" relative to earth, but the moon rotates on its axis and so all of it is exposed to the sun over the course of its (roughly) monthly orbit of the earth.
guptm
5 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2019
I am sure China is now making a legislation for claiming half of the Moon as Chinese territory. They love grabbing land.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2019
@rrwillsj, after reading the propagandistic spew in the article, I don't really care if you like what I say about it or not.

Nor is your whataboutism likely to sway that opinion.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2019
I am sure China is now making a legislation for claiming half of the Moon as Chinese territory. They love grabbing land.
says guptm

The Communist Chinese government has been building artificial islands in the South China Sea to land their fighter jets on. Surrounding nations are worried.
If China sends only machines to the far side of the Moon - depending on what type of machines - there shouldn't be much to be concerned over. If they send their astronauts to build settlements or whatever, they MAY experience some resistance as a result.
Will the Commies share their scientific discoveries with NASA, ESA, and other space agencies? It is possible that they will not - but they could surprise us. Many Chinese nationals live and work in the US as scientists/researchers at facilities such as at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Some are University students. They may be spies - at least some. Of course, we expect some espionage from the Communist Chinese.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2019
Once again, because it needs to be said: I don't intend to be jingoistic or belittle the achievement of the Chinese in landing a probe on the far side of the Moon. Congratulations to them. But I note with interest that Armstrong said "We come in peace for all mankind." And I don't hear anything like that from China. Instead we get how "powerful" China is and how they're going to "conquer the universe."

Not good. Not good at all.
says Da Scheide

LOL Nobody is able to "conquer the Universe". It is ALL rhetoric and idle talk as propaganda to shore up their poverty-stricken citizens' sense of "national pride".
They've taken a back seat to the "round-eyes" for so long and now they believe it's their turn.
Stop worrying so much, you dickhead.
SkyLight
5 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2019
Well, I don't wish to incur the wrath of anyone here, but I'd just like to say this is a memorable achievement. To get the technology, orbital mechanics and communications systems - including setting up a satellite in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point - to work so well is a very major accomplishment.

And to those worrying about China taking over the universe - calm down FFS. In the grand scheme of things, we're only just above the hollowed-out log stage of space exploration.

It's not often I agree with @wills, but he has a point about the historic failure of the US to keep their word after signing treaties.

So let's just concentrate on the science and technology, people, and leave the politics out of it?
rrwillsj
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2019
I am disturbed that I disagree with DS on these issues.

Is China pushing an advantageous agenda? Well of course they are. The New Silk Roads, both through Central Asia & maritime around SE Asia, are restoring ancient trade routes,

Yes they are building defensive installations. Against threats such as Taiwan & Japan & Vietnam. But also these waters are historically notorious for piracy.

You do not approve of them protecting what to the Chinese are coastal waters. When a RFN or PRCPAN task force of carriers & supporting vessels are sailing between the continental USA & Hawaii? Wouldn't you resent the obvious intent to intimidate us? Yet, you deny the Chinese the same emotional response?

I am horrified that seu & I have similar opinions about anything!

I would like to agree with SL. However, we swim in a sea of politics, Much of the funding for scientific research & the space program are made available when the politicians see it is to their advantage.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2019
Well, I don't wish to incur the wrath of anyone here, but I'd just like to say this is a memorable achievement. To get the technology, orbital mechanics and communications systems - including setting up a satellite in a halo orbit around the Earth-Moon L2 point - to work so well is a very major accomplishment.
Agreed.

And to those worrying about China taking over the universe - calm down FFS. In the grand scheme of things, we're only just above the hollowed-out log stage of space exploration.
That's not the problem. I'll say more below.

It's not often I agree with @wills, but he has a point about the historic failure of the US to keep their word after signing treaties.
It's still whataboutism.

So let's just concentrate on the science and technology, people, and leave the politics out of it?
Fine, if they're kept out of the articles. Which was not the case here.
Da Schneib
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2019
First of all, @rrwillsj, I just gave you two 5s for being forthright, and (mostly) not bowing to emotion.

Second of all, I agree this is a worthy achievement; no one's done it before, and it was not only ingeniously done but successful.

Third, what I objected to is not the achievement. It's the tone of this article. "Powerful" and "conquer the universe" are wildly inappropriate, both in the announcement of such an achievement, and in an article about it on a science site. I mulled reporting this article. I have elected instead to voice my concerns in the thread. The US has not, to date, ever (to my knowledge) used such propaganda in the announcement of any space mission. We tend to let the achievement stand on its own. It smacks of self-aggrandizement; I don't like it in trolls, and I don't like it in governments. If it's good, it's good; propaganda just tarnishes it.
[contd]
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Jan 05, 2019
[contd]
As for the South China Sea, it's not "coastal waters." It's an entire sea. And they're building military installations all over it which are very threatening to those very nations, Vietnam, Taiwan, and Japan, as well as the Philippines, and others as well (South Korea comes immediately to mind).

As for cruising between Hawaii and the US mainland, the sea is free for the passage of all. This is longstanding US naval doctrine and we have fought for it before. In fact, our entry into both World Wars was at least partially motivated by this principle. It's not like they'd be leaving a permanent task force there. Or building islands. If this were taken as a threat, they'd quickly find themselves in an untenable tactical situation, covered from both the Hawaiian islands and the US mainland. So I don't think this is a good analogy.

Quite frankly I see the Chinese government as trolling the world, if not, perhaps, quite so aggressively as the Russians.
Da Schneib
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 05, 2019
Last but not least, if I saw the US government releasing propaganda like this, not only would I denounce it but in much harsher terms than I have used for the Chinese government. It is, after all, my government, and thus much more important to me.

Folks may wish to consider that I regularly refer to Trump as "the giant orange anus."
cardzeus
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2019
Thermodynamics near absolute zero −273.15 °C
cardzeus> 'the lowest temperatures have been recorded at - 238 centigrade' - Impossible, that's lower than absolute zero, fool.

At temperatures near 0 K −273.15 °C −459.67 °F nearly all molecular motion cease

By international agreement, absolute zero is taken as −273.15° on the Celsius scale
https://en.wikipe...ute_zero

From the Diviner Instrument website: Diviner has revealed that temperatures within these permanently-shadowed craters can fall as low as 25K (-414.4 ºF) https://www.divin.../science
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2019
Last but not least, if I saw the US government releasing propaganda like this, not only would I denounce it but in much harsher terms than I have used for the Chinese government. It is, after all, my government, and thus much more important to me.

Folks may wish to consider that I regularly refer to Trump as "the giant orange anus."

says Da Pussyman

You DO seem to have a thing for butts and anuses, Tardo. Have you been peeking into Trump's anus while he sleeps to check out the colour of it? Are you gay?

Mwaahaahaahaahaahaa
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2019
Well, I don't wish to incur the wrath of anyone here, but I'd just like to say this is a memorable achievement. To get the technology, orbital mechanics and communications systems - including... - to work so well is a very major accomplishment.

So let's just concentrate on the science and technology, people, and leave the politics out of it?
says Sky Light

You're right, SL - it is quite an achievement for a formerly backward nation that is averse to the Freedoms for which the western nations, notably the US is known for.
But the problem that isn't always spoken of in the MSM or the CPUSA, is the fact that Communist China would have had very little of that technology and communications systems had it not been for their thieving enterprises accomplished by their exchange University students and their homegrown scientists/researchers working at National Labs in the US. The science was stolen by Chinese nationals and transferred to Chinese Universities where it was copied

Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 05, 2019
-contd-
And you can't really blame the ChiComms for stealing what they theirselves could not produce - particularly when the US was so intent on committing itself to "diversity" (as it is even now), so that security measures were lax at those National Laboratories where Chinese nationals worked and learned the Scientific Methods and then proceeding to steal everything but the kitchen sink - and maybe even that too. LOL
SkyLight
4 / 5 (4) Jan 06, 2019
@DS
what I objected to is not the achievement. It's the tone of this article. "Powerful" and "conquer the universe" are wildly inappropriate, both in the announcement of such an achievement, and in an article about it on a science site
Fair comment!
SkyLight
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2019
@SEU
The science was stolen by Chinese nationals and transferred to Chinese Universities where it was copied
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but they're only doing what the Japanese did earlier last century. Does anybody now complain that Japanese cars and cameras are among the best in the world after first copying what the West was doing and then improving greatly on that?

rrwillsj
1 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2019
DS, & the rest of the humans reading these comments, I apologize for poking the seubot awake to spray it's filth all over our screens.

I am of the opinion that you do not see the PRC viewpoint. If you intend to pick a fight with them? First Rule: Know thy enemy!

The PRC leaders understand that they are surrounded. Against modern weaponry? A giant army is a uselessly expensive affection. Don't let trumpenella see one of those parades! The Bogus POTUS would go apeshit with jealousy.

Yje PRC has achieved reconstructing half their country to Modern standards. Now they need to enable the rest of China to catch up.

That means foreign trade. That means being able to protect their foreign trade. On land & sea, in the air & space.

It is stupid to make threats you are unwilling to bleed for,

The United States carved this road that China seeks to duplicate. Without our permission.

Bot long ago in America, when we expanded our borders into frontiers.

- cont'd -
rrwillsj
1 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2019
- cont'd -
It was only a century ago when any ambitious American would attend the Universities at Oxford or Heidelberg or Paris for their degrees. & bring home all the secrets of the universe.
Taking top jobs from American graduates who only had degrees from domestic American universities.

I notice that those who whine the loudest about foreign students? Are usually those too stupid to compete with them.

I notice that in US Patent filings there are increasing numbers of names from the Near & Far East & South Asia. Africa & Latin America.

Then the whining that those new products... That you. Yes, you! Are buying. ...are manufactured overseas.

So, you object to all those shiny toys you have surrounded yourself with? That you paid for with worthless electronic currency. For which American Investors, inventors & designers & artists collect royalties dividends & commissions.

You received a physical item. For which the Chinese received worthless currency.
retrosurf
5 / 5 (2) Jan 06, 2019
>There is no "dark side" of the moon.

.. really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark.
Shootist
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2019


Folks may wish to consider that I regularly refer to Trump as "the giant orange anus."


most effective President in the modern era. sorry you're so butt hurt and suffering from derangement.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Jan 06, 2019
Giant orange anus shutdown.

Now shut up.
antialias_physorg
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
I think this is very good. It means our science and technology ability is getting stronger and the country is becoming more powerful."

This fixation of countries (particularly the superpowers and the economically strong countries) with being "powerful" is just the saddest commentary on the human race. Ever.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
Couldn't agree more, @anti. That's not what it's about. The general can't kick any guy in the army's ass. And the CEO can't kick any of the technical support peoples' asses.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 07, 2019
@SEU
The science was stolen by Chinese nationals and transferred to Chinese Universities where it was copied
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but they're only doing what the Japanese did earlier last century. Does anybody now complain that Japanese cars and cameras are among the best in the world after first copying what the West was doing and then improving greatly on that?

says Sky Light

After the 2nd World War, when Germany, Japan and Italy were defeated, the US went to work to bring the Japanese into the 20th Century by allowing them to learn some American technology. The Japanese did not have to STEAL that technology. The US gave it to them. Of course cars and cameras were improved upon since the technology was not left to stagnate if they expected to sell what they made. But the Japanese were very respectful of the US government, and especially the US military - for it was the military that brought a whole nation down.
-contd-

Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 07, 2019
-contd-
@SkyLight
And yet, the Japanese culture frowns on theft itself - so that in spite of vastly improving cameras and cars only at first, the Japanese became very adept at improvisation and learned HOW to make a better product on their own, by copying designs but not stealing - and now make computers, smartphones and other technology that gives US/China-made iPhones a run for their money, so to speak. The Japanese business acumen has outdone Chinese commerce by the proverbial "leaps and bounds". If the Japanese had wanted to, they could also have stolen technology from the US like the Chinese nationals did. But that would have been going against Japanese culture/ethics, which is heads above Chinese ethics, in comparison. This is not only due to culture/ethics in Japan, but also because Japan isn't interested in Communism and wants to be more like the US. Very wise people, they are. Again, it's the culture.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019


Folks may wish to consider that I regularly refer to Trump as "the giant orange anus."


most effective President in the modern era. sorry you're so butt hurt and suffering from derangement.
says Shootist to Da Pussyman

I'm in complete agreement, @Shootist. President Donald Trump has made amazing improvements to this nation that he loves so well. And the nation has voted for Trump to do the job that no other President could - or wanted to do. Trump is a unique kind of businessman. He runs this country as a business - because the USA IS a business - just as all nations are if they are run well. Most people are not aware of the fact that nations are run AS a business. Taxation, the US Treasury, banking, Wall Street, allocated moneys to the various States and US agencies, etc. are ALL part of the nation's business. That is why Donald Trump was needed to be POTUS. All the other Presidents before him - even Ronald Reagan were career politicians.
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 07, 2019
Good for China! I am a bit concerned that (mostly?) Americans take their clumsily translated words as anything else than exploration and healthy competition. They are after all inviting everyone into their space program, while US is shutting some (like China) out for reasons of their own.

Trump is a unique kind of businessman


We now know he was raised and has acted as a grifter. According to White House sources he has learned but one "business" negotiation trick, that of raising impossible demands, making an open ruckus about it and then go back to the table and make an ordinary deal. If "unique" means plagiarizing many other famous grifters, yes, he is that - a veritable and mundane copy cat.

Who by the way is incompetent in everything else as well, and - together with his nepotism administration that is quickly "drowning the swamp" - is known for years of least achievements and the least popularity of a US president. Ever. He is a career thug/politician.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
@tbgl
LOL If I thought as you do, I would never have voted for Donald Trump, and neither would the approx. 51% of voters who had faith in him to do his job well. And he has done it very well indeed.
You and your kind are entitled to your own opinions wrt our President, and you can rant and scream about his past and complain about the colour of his hair as though it makes him any less great - his past alleged indiscretions are of no importance to me and Trump voters, - as long as he continues to do his job and to "make America great again".
Trump's voters come from all walks of life - poor, working poor, middle working class, the rich and the very rich. No matter how wealthy or how poor - President Trump has given hope and a feeling of security to all American citizens - regardless of their background and present circumstances.

Trump is a businessman, not as you say, a career thug/politician. I can't imagine where you have gotten such idiotic drivel.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
-contd-
The President's demand to "Build the Wall" by allocating 5 billion USD for its construction also just happens to be the same demand from American citizens who are concerned that their sovereign nation will be overrun by illegal alien immigrants from Central American countries and elsewhere; and who will make working Americans responsible for the welfare, sustenance and education of this invading army that will result in ever higher taxes on the income of American citizens, and even on those who can least afford it.
Perhaps you, as a Swedish citizen, have decided to make a comparison between your country and the USA. I assure you that there is NO comparison whatsoever, since your nation has come under the influence of Leftist/Socialist values that promotes forced diversity - all to the detriment of your own ethnically Swedish citizens.
Whereas, the US is a very large nation that is able to assimilate diverse populations with ease.
-contd-
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
-contd-
...while at the same time, most Americans have no desire to have undesirable illegal immigrants allowed into the country through leaky borders - those illegal immigrants of which I have already enumerated elsewhere - that carry communicable diseases, and those that are of a decidedly criminal mind.
Sweden may be a Socialist country, but the US is partially Socialist due to the welfare system. And there are those Americans who are hell-bent on forcing the nation to accept full Socialism, which most often leads to full Communism. As Lady Margaret Thatcher said: (paraphrasing) "Socialism is fine until they run out of other people's money". The US has its own home-grown Socialists and, of course, the CPUSA (CommunistPartyoftheUSA) who would dearly love to see the US go to hell in a hand basket.
There are many Chinese-Americans who have no use for China except as the country of their ancestral origins. They are PROUD to be American. And they love Trump.
Phyllis Harmonic
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 07, 2019
those illegal immigrants of which I have already enumerated elsewhere - that carry communicable diseases, and those that are of a decidedly criminal mind


Utter derailment of the OP by the idiots, as expected. Jeeze you guys are so effed up.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 07, 2019
those illegal immigrants of which I have already enumerated elsewhere - that carry communicable diseases, and those that are of a decidedly criminal mind


Utter derailment of the OP by the idiots, as expected. Jeeze you guys are so effed up.

says Phyllis Harmonica

Are you saying that tbgLarsson is "effed up", since it is he who brought the subject of President Trump up when he made a response to my saying that Trump is a unique kind of businessman. See tbglarsson's comments above.
Perhaps you are not aware that the rover that China has sent up to the far side of the Moon could cause some political repercussions here on Earth. It should be interesting.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Jan 07, 2019
-contd-
...while at the same time, most Americans have no desire to have undesirable illegal immigrants allowed into the country through leaky borders - those illegal immigrants of which I have already enumerated elsewhere - that carry communicable diseases, and those that are of a decidedly criminal mind.
Sweden may be a Socialist country, but the US is partially Socialist due to the welfare system. And there are those Americans who are hell-bent on forcing the nation to accept full Socialism, which most often leads to full Communism.
...
There are many Chinese-Americans who have no use for China except as the country of their ancestral origins. They are PROUD to be American. And they love Trump.

Wait! I see it all so clearly, now
SEU IS Trump...
Physorg is his new Twitter... :-)
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 07, 2019
-contd-
...while at the same time,
...
There are many Chinese-Americans who have no use for China except as the country of their ancestral origins. They are PROUD to be American. And they love Trump.

Wait! I see it all so clearly, now
SEU IS Trump...
Physorg is his new Twitter... :-)
says Whyde

How did you guess so easily, Whyde. And there I thought that I was hiding my true I.D. so well.
YOU get a five for that.
:)
Phyllis Harmonic
3 / 5 (2) Jan 07, 2019
Are you saying that tbgLarsson is "effed up",


No, I am saying you are.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) Jan 08, 2019
@Torbjorn, that's all very well, but when I see propaganda I call it. If you don't like that you haven't been paying attention to who uses it in these contexts.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 08, 2019
Are you saying that tbgLarsson is "effed up",


No, I am saying you are.
says Philharmonica

...which is a clear indication that YOU are a disgusting anti-American slut and probably a Communist sympathiser. Thanks for confirming what many have thought. Now go eff yourself.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 08, 2019
Communist China has been flexing her muscles of late. This is to be expected, since she won't be contented to crush the competition in the market of goods and finance; she also wants to be the one to place her missile weaponry on the far side of the Moon to be indirectly aimed at those nations who give her lip instead of the proper respect that she, as a superpower, desires.
There are those within and without America who absolutely and positutely HATE the USA - either out of jealousy and a fervent wish to watch America's demise, or having such an industrial-strength admiration and love for all things Communist. Or both.
Communist China is now, in her newly--found accomplishment in Space, retaliating against her "round-eyed" tormentors who, for centuries, were responsible for giving the Chinese leaders - first the Emperor, and then the Communist Party in Beijing - the perceived "back of their hand" while pretending that they were equals.
Saving face is everything to the Chinese
granville583762
5 / 5 (2) Jan 08, 2019
China

China is not flexing its muscles
as china's wealth abounds
as it its towns expands
as its population grows
its diplomatic influence abounds
its overseas investment grows
its expeditions in darkside
become
relatively
less expensive
than the declining USA
so
become more adventurous
more inventive
because
Chinese are an ancient race
they are an inventive race
are a civilised race
because
they
like
Anglo Saxons
are a savage race
as
they have seen
in their history
more savagery
than Anglo Saxons
so
with their growing wealth
they are equipping their navy
equipping their air force
equipping their army
with equivalent American weaponry
the USA
is miffed
because
America's time is done
this is the age of the Chinese
it is not for America to criticise
it is not Americas place
they have no say in this state of affairs
as what was good for the goose
is also good for the gander
Might is right
China is that might
humy
5 / 5 (1) Jan 08, 2019
"...astronaut Neil Armstrong's famous comment when he became the first human to walk on the moon in 1969. "This giant leap is a decisive move for our exploration of space and the conquering of the universe."
..."

Did he REALLY say this absurdity of "...and the CONQUERING of the universe."?
I tried googling this to find out but got nowhere.
Can anyone either provide a link confirming this or tell me that this is just made up crap?
Da Schneib
not rated yet Jan 08, 2019
@humy, you been trolled.

"We came in peace for all mankind." It's what is on the plaques on every Lunar Module bottom stage left on the Moon.

If you wanna know what the official transcript of what Armstrong said when he first stepped onto the Moon was, you can google it and get at least two answers.

But neither of them will include "powerful," or "decisive;" or "conquer" in any of its cognates.
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Jan 08, 2019
they're only doing what the Japanese did ...that Japanese cars and cameras are among the best in the world
Exactly. Only competition drives innovation while keeping costs minimal. The west has routinely shared its tech with its so-called 'enemies', often using sham double agents to keep up the farce. The cold war enabled the sort of competition that cemented the tripartite superpower control of the entire planet.

There was never a danger from nuclear war, precisely because of the cold war. North Korea, Syria, Iran, and other upstart countries have demonstrated how dangerous it wouldve been without superpower competition and dominance.

Which leads one to the conclusion that post-World war politics were the actual predetermined goal of those wars and the reason why they were staged.

Imagine pre-war dynasties and theocracies with that sort of technology.

The tech was inevitable. The world needed to be changed (again) to accommodate it, quickly and thoroughly.
humy
5 / 5 (1) Jan 08, 2019
@humy, you been trolled.

"We came in peace for all mankind." It's what is on the plaques on every Lunar Module bottom stage left on the Moon.

...

But neither of them will include "powerful," or "decisive;" or "conquer" in any of its cognates.

In other words, that quote was just a lie; he never said anything like it. I thought that was probably the case.
"...and the CONQUERING of the universe." sounds to me like ravings of a delusional power-hungry mad man and I am pretty sure he wasn't that. Perhaps the misquote was meant so sound like that?
There might have been a secret political agenda behind that misquote and against the US.
Phyllis Harmonic
3 / 5 (2) Jan 08, 2019
YOU are a disgusting anti-American slut


Aren't you the edgy beta! So, in addition to being schizophrenic, delusional, and dangerously ignorant, you're also a misogynist and nationalistic shithead. No surprise there. Guessing your "human host" mommy didn't really love you after all. Poor baby.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 09, 2019
"...astronaut Neil Armstrong's famous comment when he became the first human to walk on the moon in 1969. "This giant leap is a decisive move for our exploration of space and the conquering of the universe."
..."

Did he REALLY say this absurdity of "...and the CONQUERING of the universe."?
I tried googling this to find out but got nowhere.
Can anyone either provide a link confirming this or tell me that this is just made up crap?

says humy

I recall that day very well. I/we all watched the TV coverage of the 1969 Moon landing and heard what Neil said. There was no talk of conquering of the Universe. Whoever made that up is a mentally ill person. Don't bother looking for the quote, as it doesn't exist except in this forum since it has been mentioned here.
No nation can conquer the Earth. How are they able to conquer the Universe?
This year is the 50th anniversary of the first Moon landing. Hopefully, NASA will provide the film clips to show to the millennials.
Surveillance_Egg_Unit
5 / 5 (1) Jan 09, 2019
From an AP story on Jan. 4, 2019:

""It's a small step for the rover, but one giant leap for the Chinese nation," Wu Weiren, the chief designer of the Lunar Exploration Project, told state broadcaster CCTV, in a twist of U.S. astronaut Neil Armstrong's famous comment when he became the first human to walk on the moon in 1969. "This giant leap is a decisive move for our exploration of space and the conquering of the universe.""

In other words, the chief designer of the Chinese Lunar Exploration Project twisted the famous words of Neil Armstrong.
granville583762
5 / 5 (2) Jan 09, 2019
This is just the darkside

250,000miles
from Planet Earth
only a tiny fraction of planetary distances
when we reach our nearest star
Alpha Centauri
the we can feel giddy
but
not even then
as
there is Sirius to visit
so
It is just one more giddy step
Protoplasmix
not rated yet Jan 10, 2019
Only competition drives innovation...
Creativity and ingenuity are the main drivers. Forcing humans to compete against each other is deleterious and results in everything from fraud to cheaper products to endless wars. Friendly competition on a level playing field with many referees, instant replays, and thousands of eyewitnesses is fine. As you summed up:
The tech was inevitable
and as Michio Kaku said, "science is the engine of prosperity." The proof of this is based on math and physics, e.g., we all use round wheels (geometry) because they perform better than square ones (physics).

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