Australia swelters in record-breaking heatwave

Temperatures in Australia have peaked at 49.3 degrees this week amid a national heatwave
Temperatures in Australia have peaked at 49.3 degrees this week amid a national heatwave

Australia's vast continent is sizzling through extreme heatwave conditions this week, with temperatures reaching record highs and emergency services on high alert for bushfires.

The mercury is up to 16 degree Celsius (29 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than usual for this time of the year for southern Australia, with numerous towns setting new December records, the Bureau of Meteorology said Friday.

"Heatwave conditions are being experienced across large parts of the country," the weather bureau said, adding that the sizzling temperatures spanned the southern parts of four states and the Northern Territory.

Tiny Marble Bar in Western Australia state, which bills itself as the nation's hottest town, recorded a peak of 49.3 degree Celsius (121 degrees Fahrenheit) on Thursday, it added.

Major cities across the country are also affected, with the thermometer pushing towards 40 degree Celsius and the heat set to linger into the new year.

In Sydney, thousands of people flocked to beaches to cool down, while the state's health service issued a warning for poor quality air as ozone levels rise with the hot weather.

"This is all because of a high-pressure system coming off the Tasman sea that is slow moving and has set up a pattern over several days," Bureau of Meteorology duty forecaster Nick Neynens told Fairfax Media.

Australian heatwave
Map showing heatwave forecast Dec 28-30.
"It's a very stable situation with not a lot changing, meaning everywhere is pretty much going to be hot and we don't see a strong change coming yet."

Emergency services have issued fire bans and warnings and called on people to stay out of the extreme heat.

Thousands have flocked to the beach to cool down as temperatures touch 40 degrees Celsius
Thousands have flocked to the beach to cool down as temperatures touch 40 degrees Celsius

A southerly wind change will start to bring cooler wind conditions in southern Australia that gradually extend inland into South Australia and Victoria state before weakening, the weather bureau's meteorologist Sarah Fitton said Friday.

High temperatures are not unusual in Australia during its arid southern hemisphere summer, with bushfires a common occurrence.

But climate change has pushed up land and sea temperatures and led to more extremely hot days and severe fire seasons.

High temperatures are not unusual in Australia during summer, but climate change has pushed up land and sea temperatures
High temperatures are not unusual in Australia during summer, but climate change has pushed up land and sea temperatures

Explore further

Australia's spring brings fires, snow, wild winds and dust storms

© 2018 AFP

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Dec 28, 2018
Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years?

No? Still too cold.

JRi
Dec 28, 2018
Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years?
No? Still too cold.


Australia is pretty far away from Greenland.

Dec 28, 2018
Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years?

You do know that Greenland is about half the size of the US (and quite a lot of it is mountainous), don't you?
I get the strong impression you have no clue how to read a map (apart from being woefully uneducated about how nutrient poor soil is that has beeen under ice for a hundred thousand years or so)

But..some people just have this unstopable urge to keep repeating stuff that makes them look like total fools. Eh, Shootist?

Dec 28, 2018
Oh no, it's getting hot in the summer. Should be a relief from the unseasonably cold and repeated hail storms of just a couple weeks ago. I know, I know, whether it is too hot or too cold it is all due to AGW.
The sky is falling, the sky is rising, them Chicken Littles got it covered...

Dec 28, 2018
Oh nose!! It's so hot, all those poor people have to go and suffer at the beach. While the stupid Chicken Littles, hide in their cesspool of ignorance.

LMAO.

Dec 28, 2018
No, Cantdrive. It is not merely hot, it is record-breaking hot. The heatwave is breaking records that were set just a couple years ago. Progressively hotter heatwaves are an expected sign of AGW.

Dec 28, 2018
The denialistbots are programmed to repetitiously chant "This is the best of all possible worlds!"

Which is quite a feat for them... Considering how deeply they gave their heads firmly planted up their own anuses!

Dec 28, 2018
This filthy Liberal planet needs to figure out that there is no such thing as Global Warming.

Mother Nature is just another communist scam artist looking for ways to steal my money.

Dec 28, 2018
"Oh no, it's getting hot in the summer." - CantdriveTooOld

Ya, summer normally has record breaking temperatures that are 29'F above normal.


Dec 28, 2018
"Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years? " - Stoopidist

Where do you intend to get the soil?

Glaciers have removed almost all of the soil from the interior of Greenland and the northern regions of Canada and Russia.

Have you been mentally ill all of your life?

Dec 28, 2018
Progressively hotter heatwaves are an expected sign of AGW.

Hotter heatwaves, colder cold waves, more hurricanes, less cyclones, more droughts, more flooding, more this, less that, is all due to AGW. It is the magic wand of the Chicken Littles.

Dec 28, 2018
"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy…Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization…One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore." – Ottmar Edenhoffer, high level UN-IPCC official

"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy." – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect." – Richard Benedik, former U.S./UN bureaucrat

Dec 28, 2018
The denialistbots are programmed to repetitiously chant "This is the best of all possible worlds!"

Which is quite a feat for them... Considering how deeply they gave their heads firmly planted up their own anuses!

The Chicken Little jackass loves the sound of their repetitious braying at the heretics. Which is quite a feat for them..that's how they will save the world. Considering how deeply in their cesspool of ignorance they exist.

Dec 29, 2018
"Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years? " - Stoopidist

Where do you intend to get the soil?

Glaciers have removed almost all of the soil from the interior of Greenland and the northern regions of Canada and Russia.

Have you been mentally ill all of your life?
says V4Vendicar

Here is some information for you to chew on:

http://sciencenor...reenland

Dec 29, 2018
Y'know, I'd take the Australians' reports on Australia over anything anyone in the US can say.

Dec 29, 2018
"We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy…Basically it's a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization…One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore." – Ottmar Edenhoffer, high level UN-IPCC official

"We've got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy." – Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation

"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect." – Richard Benedik, former U.S./UN bureaucrat


In other words - Global Communism for all - except for the Elite Ruling Class.
This gives new meaning to "FIGHT THE POWER".

Dec 29, 2018
Like the YEC troll for example.

Dec 29, 2018
"Here is some information for you to chew on:"- Stoopidist

The southern most tip of greenland has trivially small layers of topsoil upon which trivially tiny plots, smaller than 200 feet to a side, were built and where small amounts of grain was planted.

Where do you intend to get the soil for the rest of the continent?

Glaciers have removed almost all of the soil from the interior of Greenland and the northern regions of Canada and Russia.

Have you been mentally ill all of your life?

Dec 29, 2018
"The Chicken Little jackass loves the sound of their repetitious braying" - antigoracle

Meanwhile 2018 is coming in as the 4th warmest year in recorded human history.

Nature isn't following the demented fantasy universe created by Global Warming Denialist Kooks.

Dec 29, 2018
CantDrive is making progress. Only half of his following sentence is a lie.

"Hotter heatwaves, colder cold waves, more hurricanes, less cyclones, more droughts, more flooding, more this, less that, is all due to AGW. It is the magic wand of the Chicken Littles." - CantDriveTooStupid

Dec 29, 2018

The Chicken Little jackass loves the sound of their repetitious braying at the heretics. Which is quite a feat for them..that's how they will save the world. Considering how deeply in their cesspool of ignorance they exist.

@antialgore wins the BOZO of the week award. Yeap, climate denier, Check. Rightwing flakeazoid, Check. AAGW (Anti Anthropogenic Global Warming) Check. Science denier goon, Check. Oh wait, we have a tie with @shootshit for saying
Goats and cattle, barley and wheat, raised on Greenland as the Vikings did for 100-400 years?

No? Still too cold.
.
No wait, te have a THREEWAY tie for BOZO of the week. @cantthink85 says;

Progressively hotter heatwaves are an expected sign of AGW.

It is the magic wand of the Chicken Littles.


Dec 29, 2018
I don't know why anybody is arguing with the denierbots?
Those are just programming. Mindlessly repeating the installed coding.

The Turing Test to determine if you are trapped by one of those denierbot programs?

Ask the question "Do they claim that scientists are falsifying the data & their conclusions?"

Then confirm that the denier coding is running with the following statement "Since the science is bogus. When you are in need of medical assistance. As the education of the doctors you will go to are based on that bogus science. Thus all the degree'd experts are tainted,"

Ask "Instead of seeing an MD? You will have your favorite fascist politician do open-heart surgery on you?
You would rely on the kindness of your buddy, the altright fairytail? To perform brain surgery upon you?

The programs running will not hesitate to allowing the trumpster doing a colonoscopy on them.

All the rest, who are effusive in their refusals? Are cowardly hypocrites.

Dec 29, 2018
Hey wills, lets all see your summary of AGW theory , in your own words , no links , pastes . Just curious ,,

Dec 29, 2018
http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_display_type=dataGraph&p_stn_num=094029&p_nccObsCode=40&p_month=13

Sometimes I think I should take snoosebaum off ignore. Whenever I check his comments, I see insane things like this: a meaningless climate statistic from one point in Tasmania, far from the article's area of interest. He's unintentionally funny in the way that creationists like FredJose are, without the obviously serious mental health issues of SEU.

Dec 29, 2018
By the way, for those interested in heat wave information in Australia, the Australian BOM has released a climate report with that information: http://www.bom.go...2018.pdf . Page 4 has a nice little graph illustrating the issue nicely.

Dec 29, 2018
So we have record heat occurring in Australia. In and of itself - it is just one year - and of course could just be 'natural' (meaning not caused by human activity). Of course in a wider context - we start to see a possible pattern - https://en.wikipe...2009.svg
And in a global context - even more compelling. https://climate.n...erature/ (look at the graph!)

So what have Snoose/surveillance egg and Shootist got? An article about some small pieces of charred corn - found in a rubbish dump in Greenland!!!!

You guys are too stupid...

Dec 29, 2018
ok sydney ;

http://www.bom.go...month=12

todays weather sydney
https://www.accuw...st/22889

wow , the end is near ,,,

Dec 29, 2018
@snooze
Hey wills, lets all see your summary of AGW theory , in your own words
so, you're a proven liar and fraud promoting pseudoscience, but we're the ones that have to answer to you?

when we ask you for a specific study, you link to wattsupBULLSH*t and say it's a legit answer, even though it's not in your own words, nor is it science

if we were to link a rebuttal to skepticalscience, you would throw a hissy-fit

when we present factual data, you ignore it, like here
https://phys.org/...ing.html

or here
https://phys.org/...ope.html

or you move the goalposts, change the argument, or redirect
https://phys.org/...ury.html

so why should anyone entertain your trolling BS here, especially when you have *proven* you won't read the facts and that your argument will simply be to lie, redirect, move goalposts, etc?

Dec 29, 2018
Hey Cap'n Stumped ! how ya doin? , hows that AGW in your own words abstract coming along ?

easy question , i know you have read all those studies u link

Dec 29, 2018
Snoose
todays weather sydney


Well I guess we need to start by explaining the difference between climate and weather. No - why bother - you guys don't care about science, or facts. Cherry picking is your MO. So not only can you find an obscure article about some corn found in a 1000 year old rubbish dump - but you can cherry pick one day's data from one city - and actually believe you have proved something.

http://www.bom.go...us/2015/

Dec 29, 2018
@snoosebaum
Thank you for enlightening those of us who are interested in the FUTURE of our freedom-loving peoples who hate Communism and that particular lead-up to the slavery of Communism - Socialism.
Those 3 paragraphs that you submitted here hadn't been known about by everyone, probably due to the secrecy of those who wish to implement it to place MOST humans in "chains". We have all been there before in one way or another.
This is why the Democrats in the US don't want the Wall to be built. They don't want to SECURE THE BORDERS, not only for the need to get more people to vote Democrat at election time - but also to follow in the footsteps of their masters - the ELITE RULING CLASS.

Many American citizens still are wearing their blinders and cannot SEE the Truth of what is really happening. Perhaps even some politicians are still blind to that Truth. But they will finally wake up.

Dec 29, 2018
Hey oonions, good point re climate /weather lets tell the guys who posted this :

https://phys.org/...ave.html

Dec 29, 2018
snoose
lets tell the guys who posted this
They already know snoose - which is why they were very careful with their language - and made it clear that the current heat wave is being caused by
a high-pressure system coming off the Tasman sea ...
They also show that they understand the broader context of climate - by saying this
climate change has pushed up land and sea temperatures and led to more extremely hot days and severe fire seasons
I suspect that you cannot discern the nuance in the language they use - as you are just busy pushing a political agenda - and really don't care about the science being explained to you.

Dec 29, 2018
So we have record heat occurring in Australia. In and of itself - it is just one year - and of course could just be 'natural' (meaning not caused by human activity). Of course in a wider context - we start to see a possible pattern - https://en.wikipe...2009.svg (look at the graph!)

So what have Snoose/surveillance egg and Shootist got? An article about some small pieces of charred corn - found in a rubbish dump in Greenland!!!!

You guys are too stupid...
says greenio

The Earth just happens to be right smack in the middle/between ice ages and mini-ice ages. This heat ANYWHERE that it occurs only goes to show that the Earth is A LIVING DYNAMO of changeable weather patterns from one extreme to the other and everything in between.
-contd-

Dec 29, 2018
Many American citizens still are wearing their blinders and cannot SEE the Truth of what is really happening
Are you talking about the TRUTH - where Herr Trump gave the troops a 10% pay raise - cuz they have not gotten a pay raise in more than 10 years?
Fact check shows us that the recent pay raise was for 2.6%, and the troops have been getting a pay raise every year. https://www.nbcne...-n952336

So really guys - if you are too stupid to even know how to hold someone accountable for such a blatant lie - why are you wanting to brag about your ability to know facts from lies?

Dec 29, 2018
-contd-
It is also about shifting landmasses, subduction and earthquakes and tsunami that most of you never get to experience - while others do. Will you also condemn the EARTH ITSELF for its transgressions against YOUR Anthropocentric little girlie feelings of what is right and wrong?
Weather, whether heat or cold IS the Earth doing as it wants to do.
None of you are willing to travel to Africa or Asia or anywhere else to rail at those citizens and DEMAND that they stop eating, breathing and shitting so that YOUR IDEA of a pristine world will no longer be upsetting to YOUR values and the values of the NEW WORLD ORDER ELITE RULING CLASS.

Dec 29, 2018
Many American citizens still are wearing their blinders and cannot SEE the Truth of what is really happening
Are you talking about the TRUTH - where Herr Trump gave the troops a 10% pay raise - cuz they have not gotten a pay raise in more than 10 years?
Fact check shows us that the recent pay raise was for 2.6%, and the troops have been getting a pay raise every year. https://www.nbcne...-n952336

So really guys - if you are too stupid to even know how to hold someone accountable for such a blatant lie - why are you wanting to brag about your ability to know facts from lies?

says greenio

President Trump has only been in Office for less than 2 years. I believe that it is the US Congress that allocates the moneys that are geared toward the military - pay raises and all. Barak Obama had nothing to do with pay raises either - Congress is the one.

Dec 29, 2018
green ; yes i see that, they were carefull to link weather and climate and to post an alarming and fake headline to fuel the moral panic

Dec 29, 2018
President Trump is not, nor ever has been, a lying politician. He is still a businessman who loves America and her LEGAL CITIZENRY. He is also a showman who was involved in many great, successful TV shows. People who are involved in show business sometimes tend to exaggerate just a tad - but he is innocent of any crimes.
AGW is exaggerated quite often, even with this heat wave that is occurring in Australia - which just happens to be in the souther hemisphere where it is SUMMERTIME.
Heat and drought occurs in summer. That is what the Earth does and the Earth has been changing the weather patterns for the past 4.6 billion years since it had built up enough Mass through accretion billions of years ago.
Do you REALLY expect Earth to make you humans nice and comfy and happy? Get real for once.

Dec 29, 2018
Snoose
todays weather sydney


Well I guess we need to start by explaining the difference between climate and weather. No - why bother - you guys don't care about science, or facts. Cherry picking is your MO. So not only can you find an obscure article about some corn found in a 1000 year old rubbish dump - but you can cherry pick one day's data from one city - and actually believe you have proved something.

http://www.bom.go...us/2015/
says greenio

CLIMATE is a usual and most often EXPECTED temperature RANGE in any given REGION OF THE EARTH - such as the climate in the islands of Bahamas and Cuba is EXPECTED to be warm to hot but with cooling breezes. Australia is a large continent in the southern hemisphere, so that it is necessary to go by LOCATION and not its overall climate by region. Most AGW worshippers can't seem to comprehend this "rule of thumb" and instead go by Regional Climate rather than by location.

Dec 29, 2018
@snooze-troll
how ya doin?
Nunya
hows that AGW in your own words abstract coming along ?
I have plenty

how is that trolling idiotic pseudoscience watts idiocy you keep spouting coming along?

I find it rather hilarious that you want everyone else to give their versions in their own words while you regurgitate anti-science rhetoric though

kinda hypocritical of you, eh?

Maybe you can ignore the studies on greenhouse gasses some more?
Oh wait, this is the thread where you're just asking for AGW theories...

sorry, all your comments tend to look alike

Dec 29, 2018
It could be hot in Sydney, but cold in the more southern parts of Oz, or anywhere else. I understand that Australia has no known active volcanos, although there are some since Australia either straddles the Ring of Fire or lies close to it. That doesn't mean that any one of the volcanos under Oz could not come alive at some point in the future.
Earth sends messages to humans and animals every so often to warn that she is shrugging a bit to settle in a bit more comfortably. If humans don't like it, well that's just too bad.

Dec 29, 2018
@eggy
CLIMATE is a usual and most often EXPECTED temperature RANGE in any given REGION OF THE EARTH
nope
Climate can be predicted in an expected range, but "climate" itself is defined as (paraphrased): the description of the long-term pattern of weather in a particular area

so we're talking observed weather measurements over a period of time, not expected temperature, and includes temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, wind, precipitation, atmospheric particle count and other meteorological variables in a given region
reference: World Meteorological Organization (WMO)
and
Shepherd, Dr. J. Marshall; Shindell, Drew; O'Carroll, Cynthia M. (1 February 2005). "What's the Difference Between Weather and Climate?". NASA


Dec 29, 2018
Snoose
yes i see that, they were carefull to link weather and climate and to post an alarming and fake headline to fuel the moral panic
Weather and climate are linked. Shame you were not aware of that. The headline was accurate
The mercury is up to 16 degree Celsius (29 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than usual for this time of the year - and - with temperatures reaching record highs
Now you see - this is talking about weather. But as I said - weather and climate are related - and as long term temperatures (that's climate) increase - you tend to see patterns forming in the weather - such as record breaking highs. Already showed you that - right?

Dec 29, 2018
"Here is some information for you to chew on:"- Stoopidist

The southern most tip of greenland has trivially small layers of topsoil upon which trivially tiny plots, smaller than 200 feet to a side, were built and where small amounts of grain was planted.

Where do you intend to get the soil for the rest of the continent?

Glaciers have removed almost all of the soil from the interior of Greenland and the northern regions of Canada and Russia.

Have you been mentally ill all of your life?
says V4Vandalism

No duh - really? Glaciers can do all that? What power! Who knew??
The point is that the Vikings traveled from Iceland to Greenland to build farms and grow crops and cattle - and they did that - up until the climate became too cold to farm and raise crops any longer. So they were forced to move on. But the proof that they HAD BEEN in Greenland is in the bottom of that rubbish burial heap - which cannot be denied. So what's you point? That soil is moved by glaciers?

Dec 29, 2018
egg
Earth sends messages to humans and animals every so often
What does that even mean? Are you promoting Gaia hypothesis? The earth is a living being? Our climate/weather is affected by many factors. Do you know what Milankovitch cycles are? This has nothing to do with some message being sent through the ether, it is about the physics of our climate - which is relatively complex.

Dec 29, 2018
Snoose
yes i see that, they were carefull to link weather and climate and to post an alarming and fake headline to fuel the moral panic
Weather and climate are linked. Shame you were not aware of that. The headline was accurate
The mercury is up to 16 degree Celsius (29 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than usual for this time of the year - and - with temperatures reaching record highs
Now you see - this is talking about weather. But as I said - weather and climate are related - and as long term temperatures (that's climate) increase - you tend to see patterns forming in the weather - such as record breaking highs. Already showed you that - right?
says greenio

LOL Weather and climate are 2 different things - although both are part of Earth's atmospheric dynamics.
I have already mentioned that weather is according to LOCATION, and CLIMATE is the EXPECTED TEMP RANGE OF A REGION. CUBA IS HOT - GREENLAND IS NOT.

Dec 29, 2018
egg
But the proof that they HAD BEEN in Greenland is in the bottom of that rubbish burial heap - which cannot be denied
No one is denying that there was corn in the bottom of the rubbish heap. The point is that in order to UNDERSTAND that fact - in the context of the Earth's climate system - one needs to do some science. Scientists have done a lot of work on the MWP. Please reference scientific research - that puts facts like some corn in a rubbish tip - in context. Is it possible they brought the corn on ships? Is it possible the MWP was a regional event? Do you think scientists don't know that the Earth has been warmer in previous periods. Ever heard of the Jurassic? Do you think scientists are not aware of the Milankovitch cycles, and all the other drivers of our climate?

Dec 29, 2018
Egg - you fail - even on trying to talk about the difference between climate and weather.

https://www.nasa....her.html

Dec 29, 2018
egg
Earth sends messages to humans and animals every so often
What does that even mean? Are you promoting Gaia hypothesis? The earth is a living being? Our climate/weather is affected by many factors. Do you know what Milankovitch cycles are? This has nothing to do with some message being sent through the ether, it is about the physics of our climate - which is relatively complex.
says greenio

The Earth is NOT a LIVING being. But Earth is movement and that movement has a very wide range that includes ATMOSPHERIC MOVEMENT that is subject to its own dynamics as well as with the dynamics of the Earth under it.
Climate AND weather both follow the rules of the dynamics of the Earth - through her movements such as when she shrugs and causes quakes, and landmasses subducting to recycle itself.
The "messages" are heard by animals that flee when they FEEL the first tremors. But humans are not often sensitive enough to those messages, and often feel regret later

Dec 29, 2018
@eggy on da face TROLL
although both are part of Earth's atmospheric dynamics
so?
I have already mentioned that ... CLIMATE is the EXPECTED TEMP RANGE OF A REGION
and again: no, it isn't

"expectation" has nothing to do with it unless you can show a reference that specifically designates expectation as part of the definition of climate

I would call out the WMO definition above, but you're ignoring facts anyway with your delusional claims about earth sending messages... you do realise that Earthlink is just an ISP, right? it's not the earth sending you messages - it's a server administrator or a company
Sheesh

Dec 29, 2018
@greenio
Gaia is just a name that was made up by men to start a "religion" of sorts to instill a respect for the Earth. I am surprised that YOU are not a devotee of the religion of Gaia.

Dec 29, 2018
egg
But the proof that they HAD BEEN in Greenland is in the bottom of that rubbish burial heap - which cannot be denied
No one is denying that there was corn in the bottom of the rubbish heap. The point is that in order to UNDERSTAND that fact - in the context of the Earth's climate system - one needs to do some science. Scientists have done a lot of work on the MWP. Please reference scientific research - that puts facts like some corn in a rubbish tip - in context. Is it possible they brought the corn on ships? Is it possible the MWP was a regional event? Do you think scientists don't know that the Earth has been warmer in previous periods. Ever heard of the Jurassic? Do you think scientists are not aware of the Milankovitch cycles, and all the other drivers of our climate?
says greenio

No. The corn was not subsequently brought on ships from elsewhere. It would have been rotted and eaten by worms before it arrived in Greenland.

Dec 29, 2018
@greenio
The corn was GROWN IN GREENLAND. At least until the climate of Greenland changed to become too cold to grow much of anything.
Scientists are aware of many things - but they have now become driven to accommodate the ramblings of those few AGW scientists who are grossly dependent on politicians for funding, and now on the ELITE RULING CLASS who also champion the Communists agenda for power and control over populaces of the Earth and to limit freedoms and progress and the improvement of human lives.
Do you favour Communism and the loss of freedom, greenio?

Dec 29, 2018
looks like benni is going to have to give up his Supreme Dunce hat to seu.
Perhaps we should not provoke seu's childish tantrums?
seu's fulminations are an AGW event all their own!

Dec 29, 2018
''I have plenty [ apparently not , ]

how is that trolling idiotic pseudoscience watts idiocy you keep spouting coming along?''

quite well , but it would burn your eyes and ears so i will spare you today.
Its amazing really, something you feel so passionate about yet cannot explain to interested persons

@ greensleeves '' weather and climate are related ''

no shit ? 'cept when its cold then its just weather

Dec 29, 2018
looks like benni is going to have to give up his Supreme Dunce hat to seu.
Perhaps we should not provoke seu's childish tantrums?
seu's fulminations are an AGW event all their own!
says rrwilliejoe

ROFLOL Oh foolish one. Is that really all you could come up with? Now go to the front of the "classroom" and write 500 times -
"I, rrwilliejoe, am suffering from Cognitive Dissonance, partly brought on by my misconception of what reality is".

500 times, williejoe.

Dec 29, 2018

But not to worry, rrwilliejoe. YOU are NOT alone in physorg. The "dragon" is here to protect you and your AGW siblings who suffer along with you - that "Cognitive Dissonance" that has affected so many within the past several decades. Learn to relax, williejoe, and to use commas rather than question marks where appropriate.

Dec 29, 2018
@snooze trolling
Its amazing really, something you feel so passionate about yet cannot explain to interested persons
repeating your lies doesn't make it truer

I never said I couldn't explain
I said I wouldn't explain, with caveat's

of course, considering you also feel so passionate about your pseudoscience yet cannot explain to interested persons without spreading your links, I find your comment both hypocritical and hilariously ironic

.

.

@eggyTROLL
No. The corn was not subsequently brought on ships from elsewhere. It would have been rotted and eaten by worms before it arrived in Greenland
so how did it get there?
did the aliens beam it there?
or is this one of your deities practical jokes?

maybe your gaia-earthlink messaged it there?

Dec 29, 2018
@greenio
The corn was GROWN IN GREENLAND. At least until the climate of Greenland changed to become too cold to grow much of anything.
Scientists are aware of many things - but they have now become driven to accommodate the ramblings of those few AGW scientists who are grossly dependent on politicians for funding, and now on the ELITE RULING CLASS who also champion the Communists agenda for power and control over populaces of the Earth and to limit freedoms and progress and the improvement of human lives.
Do you favour Communism and the loss of freedom, greenio?
says I

@greenunyans
Mission Control calling greenio. Are you there?

Dec 29, 2018
@snoosebaum
Have you noticed that I don't bother to respond to the fatuous wordy ramblings of Captain Beelzebub? That fiend who demands validated evidence but never gives any that wasn't derived from a Search engine?
Why waste your time and energy responding to a nonscientist such as the fatuous wordy flimflam bunco artist?
You may have noticed that Captain Stupid copies and pastes corrupted parts of comments to be able to inflict the accusations of "liar", "illiterate", and a host of other vilifying name-calling.
Captain Beelzebub has refined its pretensions to that of an "artiste" so as to collect the Souls of as many agreeable admirers to its damned bosom.
The dragon thrashes and bites.

Dec 29, 2018
Mission Control calling greenio. Are you there?
Absolutely. Noticing that you fail to recognize a significant issue. You presume to debate on the issue of climate science - and yet you have just been exposed - as not even understanding the difference between weather and climate. snoose falls into the same trap. Recently snoose was arguing that AGW is false - cuz it was cold in Texas.

You both fail - but will of course continue to look stupid.
Do you favour Communism...
Not at all - but I also understand that my political philosophy - has no bearing on science. It seems very telling to watch as folks like you attack science - while clearly showing you don't understand even the most basic issues - but never fail to turn it to politics, and conspiracy rubbish.

Despite what Giuliani wants us to believe - a lie is a lie - and there is such a thing as truth.

Dec 29, 2018
egg
But the proof that they HAD BEEN in Greenland is in the bottom of that rubbish burial heap - which cannot be denied
No one is denying that there was corn in the bottom of the rubbish heap. The point is that in order to UNDERSTAND that fact - in the context of the Earth's climate system - one needs to do some science. Scientists have done a lot of work on the MWP. Please reference scientific research - that puts facts like some corn in a rubbish tip - in context. Is it possible they brought the corn on ships? Is it possible the MWP was a regional event? Do you think scientists don't know that the Earth has been warmer in previous periods. Ever heard of the Jurassic?
says greenio eggs and ham ;)

Yes, the Jurassic was a time when the dinosaurs were driving around in buses, cars, trucks and airplanes - while the pterosaurs were delivering packages by air. ROFLOL
Dinosaurs were allegedly cold blooded creatures, so they needed a warm-hot climate.


Dec 29, 2018
Mission Control calling greenio. Are you there?
Absolutely. Noticing that you fail to recognize a significant issue. You presume to debate on the issue of climate science - and yet you have just been exposed - as not even understanding the difference between weather and climate. snoose falls into the same trap. Recently snoose was arguing that AGW is false - cuz it was cold in Texas.

You both fail - but will of course continue to look stupid.
Do you favour Communism...
Not at all - but I also understand that my political philosophy - has no bearing on science. It seems very telling to watch as folks like you attack science - while clearly showing you don't understand even the most basic issues - but never fail to turn it to politics, and conspiracy rubbish.

Despite what Giuliani wants us to believe - a lie is a lie - and there is such a thing as truth.

says greenio

AGW is inseparable from taxpayer funding via politics.
-contd-


Dec 29, 2018
-contd-
@greenio

Of course you are in favour of Communism, since Communism is the ONLY way to control the masses, those various peoples of Earth to eliminate the dastardly usage of fossil fuels, oil drilling, coal mining, and gas fields that greatly offend those climatologists and their political stewards who provide the funding for AGW research, as well as the salaries to support such climate "experts" - otherwise they might have to find work in other research venues such as (gasp) Astrophysics - which everyone KNOWS takes a whole lot more of brain power than AGW researchers and their hockey sticks.
We are NOT attacking science, you foolish person - we attack the NONSCIENCE of those "experts" who pretend that the end of the world (as we know it) is coming - due to the human need to stay warm in cold weather and to drive a car to work, and all of those comforts with which humans are most often familiar with - and which the haters of humanity wish to relieve them of those comforts

Dec 29, 2018
''repeating your lies doesn't make it truer''

since when were observations lies ?
''
ie .
I never said I couldn't explain
I said I wouldn't explain, with caveat's''

coulda woulda shouda , same result

you can't handle simple questions even [ u need your links ] ,
i post links too although i could do with out them . An actual discussion would not involve them u would have to think for yourself

Dec 29, 2018
Of course you are in favour of Communism
so you really show your lack of understanding of reason and discourse. Nothing I have said would lead any reasonable person to conclude that I am in favor of communism. You look so stupid making such unsupportable assertions.
and which the haters of humanity wish to relieve them of those comforts
Again - you make yourself look so stupid with child like assertions. There is a lot about humanity that I hate. Look up Pol Pot! But there is a lot that I love. I love technology - and am a great proponent of the emerging technologies - that will allow us to have the quality of life that we have shown we are capable of. Meaning - food, water, shelter, health care, meaningful work transportation, etc. without the negatives of pollution, and climate destruction. I hope we can extend such a high quality of life as I have - to all our fellow earthlings.

Dec 29, 2018
snoose
lets tell the guys who posted this
They already know snoose - which is why they were very careful with their language - and made it clear that the current heat wave is being caused by
a high-pressure system coming off the Tasman sea ...
They also show that they understand the broader context of climate - by saying this
climate change has pushed up land and sea temperatures and led to more extremely hot days and severe fire seasons
I suspect that you cannot discern the nuance in the language they use - as you are just busy pushing a political agenda - and really don't care about the science being explained to you.

says greenio

Hmmm and hmm - a high-pressure system coming off the Tasman Sea. And where is the Tasman Sea? Why, it seems to be a body of water that is right off the East coast of Oz and is that which divides NZ from Oz.
-contd-

Dec 29, 2018
I don't think any of the idiots even know what communism is, and failed to note that it didn't work out well for anyone who tried it.

Dec 29, 2018
According to Wiki:

The depth of the sea is 5,493 metres (18,022 feet).[5] The base of the sea is made up of globigerina ooze. A small zone of pteropod ooze is found to the south of New Caledonia and to the southern extent of 30°S, siliceous ooze can be found.[6]

Well, that explains it. The high-pressure system is being caused by the OOZE, particularly from pteropod ooze. As the ooze decays by the action of bacteria and fungi - it emits heat to the surface of the Tasman Sea, and that heat blows toward Sydney and the southeast coast of Oz, causing an effect of high temps, while also causing barely clad ladies and gents to uncover themselves at the beaches to brown nicely in the hot sun's rays.

Dec 29, 2018
Of course you are in favour of Communism
so you really show your lack of understanding of reason and discourse. Nothing I have said would lead any reasonable person to conclude that I am in favor of communism. You look so stupid making such unsupportable assertions.
and which the haters of humanity wish to relieve them of those comforts
Again - you make yourself look so stupid with child like assertions. There is a lot about humanity that I hate. Look up Pol Pot! But there is a lot that I love... Meaning - food, water, shelter, health care, meaningful work transportation, etc. without the negatives of pollution, and climate destruction. I hope we can extend such a high quality of life as I have - to all our fellow earthlings.
says greenio

All well and good - for YOU. However, are YOU willing to put your love to the test to ensure that Communists in the US Democrat Party don't come into power, using AGW as one of the reasons to takeover?

Dec 29, 2018
Like I said, these individuals have no idea what communism is.

There aren't any communists in the US. Russia went down, and China is now arresting communists. It's dead.

Maybe you forgot.

My preferred system of government and economics is regulated capitalist social democracy, admittedly a very difficult balance to maintain. Seems to be working OK quite a few places, though. Certainly a hell of a lot better than either communism or unrestrained capitalism

Dec 29, 2018
Like I said, these individuals have no idea what communism is.

There aren't any communists in the US. Russia went down, and China is now arresting communists. It's dead.

Maybe you forgot.
says Da Scheide (aka Da Pussy)

ROFLOL

Dec 29, 2018
''There aren't any communists in the US '' lol

https://farleftwa...fficers/

Dec 29, 2018
You got the balls for a discussion of economics and government? Maybe, but I bet you ain't got the chops.

Dec 29, 2018
Oops, antifa are not communists. They're anarchists, who to my mind are naive adolescents who think they're socialists (with very little justification). I spent a year or two dealing with these people on a site far from here a long time ago, and they never stopped being adolescent. One of the solutions for violent adolescents is to start a war and conscript them into the army.

Like I said, I bet you ain't got the chops.

And your psychotic buttbuddy seems to be limited to more psychotic breaks. Sorry, ROFL isn't a valid response in a political discussion. At least, @snooze, you had some sort of evidence (however sorry it was) to offer.

Dec 29, 2018
''There aren't any communists in the US '' lol

https://farleftwa...fficers/

says snooiebaum

Whoa - Red Guards Kansas City - masked and ready for Freddy - ROFLOL
Hmmm and hmm - perhaps Da Scheide knows all their hand signals since they are hiding their faces.
What was that that DaPussy said? There are no communists in the US? well well well

Dec 29, 2018
Re adolescents, Heinlein favored heading them up in a barrel and feeding them through the bunghole until they turned into human beings. That seems a bit harsh; perhaps just FEMA camps (and yes, I'm baiting you).

Dec 29, 2018
http://www.cpusa.org

What was pussyman saying again? Something about there being no COMMUNISTS IN THE US??

Dec 29, 2018
Show practicing communists in the Democratic Party, which was your claim, and not one or two, but a bunch of them, or cease your psychotic fantasies about telepathic aliens and rape machines in the bushes.

It's just another psychotic conspiracy theory. Get help. Get medicine. Take it. Go away.

Dec 29, 2018
And, wouldn't you know it - according to THIS article from CommunistPartyUSA:

http://www.cpusa....-change/

The Communist Party is in complete agreement with AGW.
Oh my.

Dec 29, 2018
Avoidance using deflection by the psychotic troll who thinks telepathic alien lizards are running the government and there are robot rape machines in the bushes.

Show a communist member of congress. Senate or House. Let us know about that. You claim it you prove it or you lied.

Get help. Take the medicine. Go away.

Dec 29, 2018
Lizards? What lizards, pussyman? Where do you see alien lizards? I don't see any alien lizards. I don't think that anyone here in physorg sees alien lizards either.
Perhaps you have been getting the D-Ts from getting drunk too often. Better get help for that. Dry out, Da Scheide before your brain fog kills you.

Dec 29, 2018
Like I said, these individuals have no idea what communism is.

There aren't any communists in the US. Russia went down, and China is now arresting communists. It's dead.

My preferred system of government and economics is regulated capitalist social democracy,

says Da Scheide

Well, according to THIS -

https://www.brook...ongress/

Communism is very much alive and well in China.

Stop your excessive boozing and dry out, pussyman.

Dec 29, 2018
Meanwhile, on Earth: https://www.busin...-2018-11

And you were the one who brought up the telepathic alien lizards. Already linked and documented. Now stop lying about what you said.

Get help. Take the medicine. Go away.

Dec 29, 2018
egg - this was your assertion - aimed at me
Of course you are in favour of Communism
But I am not in favor of communism. Nothing I have said would indicate that I am in favor of communism. Physorg is a science site. I read physorg cuz I like science. I like to see what is happening on the frontiers of science and technology. You want to know what I am in favour of? Education, truth, knowledge, science. I see the potential the human race has for evil (Pol Pot), and for greatness (supercolliders.) It seems you don't care about truth. One example is your accusation towards me - with no basis. Another example would be arguing against the very solid science of climate change - even though you don't even know the difference between weather and climate. Being informed is not your strong point - right?

Dec 29, 2018
https://www.youtu...E1k98frQ ,,,,no commies here

but when trump is gone they will silence the usefull idiots

Dec 29, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Dec 29, 2018
Ok. @Sausage_in_egg takes the cake for active propagandist fox news goon head. Must be Russian sympathizer and ergo, a trump gag toady type. He'll say anything to destroy the liberal democracy of the USA.

Dec 29, 2018
Oh, watch out! You said "liberal!" These idiots have no idea what these complicated political terms mean. They're the stupidocracy.

I still say there should be an IQ test you have to pass to vote.

Dec 30, 2018
Liar... Liar.. Pants on fire...

"The Earth just happens to be right smack in the middle/between ice ages and mini-ice ages."

The Earth is at the tail end of the current interglacial period, and has been cooling for the last 10,000 years or so. Until now.

So why do you feel a need to lie about it?

Dec 30, 2018
Liar... Liar.. Pants on fire...

"The Earth just happens to be right smack in the middle/between ice ages and mini-ice ages."

The Earth is at the tail end of the current interglacial period, and has been cooling for the last 10,000 years or so. Until now.

So why do you feel a need to lie about it?
says V4Vindictiveness

How exactly do you KNOW for a fact where we are wrt the interglacial period? Did you get that from the Hockey Stick guy? The Vikings were in Greenland about 1000 +/- ya until it became too cold. And 1000 yrs later suddenly you say that we are out of the IGP because your AGW climatologists say so? If Summer 2019 is cold in the Northeast of the US, will you say that it's AGW?

Dec 30, 2018
Because of the Milankovic cycles. Maybe you've heard of them.

Dumb da dumb dumb. Dumb da dumb dumb duhhhh.....

Dec 30, 2018
Meanwhile, on Earth: https://www.busin...-2018-11

And you were the one who brought up the telepathic alien lizards. Already linked and documented. Now stop lying about what you said.

Get help. Take the medicine. Go away.
says Da Scheide aka pussyturd

Nope. I have never seen alien lizards. but YOU keep talking about alien lizards as though you have a lot of experience with them. Is NASA aware that you are seeing alien telepathic lizards? You should inform them ASAP. And there is no mention of alien lizards or even plain lizards in your link. You still haven't showed any evidence that alien lizards exist - except in YOUR mind.

Dec 30, 2018
Like I said, these individuals have no idea what communism is.

There aren't any communists in the US. Russia went down, and China is now arresting communists. It's dead.

My preferred system of government and economics is regulated capitalist social democracy,

says Da Scheide

Well, according to THIS -

https://www.brook...ongress/

Communism is very much alive and well in China.

Stop your excessive boozing and dry out, pussyman.


Dec 30, 2018
Ok. @Sausage_in_egg takes the cake for active propagandist fox news goon head. Must be Russian sympathizer and ergo, a trump gag toady type. He'll say anything to destroy the liberal democracy of the USA.
says howhot3

Are you aware how STUPID you sound? You are beginning to sound just as stupid as Da Scheide aka DaPussytard. Must be Russian sympathiser sounds really, REALLY stupid.

Dec 30, 2018
How do you become an adult in a Western society and not know what the Milankovic cycles are?

I'm going with home-schooled Scientologist.

Dec 30, 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsUE1k98frQ ,,,,no commies here

but when trump is gone they will silence the usefull idiots
says snoosebaum

Snoosebaum's estimation that when President Trump and moderate and conservative Republicans have been voted out by Socialist/Communist Democrats, then the Socialists and Communists will feel free to begin the destruction of the US and its Constitution and Laws with the help of the Elite Ruling Class in the AGW Climate Change movement, and to mobilise all the crazies to keep the movement going by attacking normal citizens and possibly placing them in FEMA camps like the one in the state of Georgia. Mark my words - This is inevitable.

Dec 30, 2018
According to the World Health Organization, cold killed almost five million people in 2018. How much did warm kill?

Dec 30, 2018
egg
How exactly do you KNOW for a fact where we are wrt the interglacial period?
Your question gets to the heart of the discussion egg. Science has developed a massive body of information about Earth's geology/climate over the past 4.6 billion years. What I know (damn limited) comes from reading - and to me it is pretty impressive. Scientists use techniques like tree ring/sediment/ice core/fossil/nuclear etc. etc analysis to put together a picture of Earth's history. The picture is always being worked on. THAT is how we know. Putting it bluntly - if you are not even remotely aware of this painstakingly complex process - you are just being an asshole wanting to make assertions on a science site. If you want to be critical of this body of knowledge - you better have the appropriate qualifications - and be highly educated on the topic. I am not - but I am in awe of the amazing work of science. It blows my mind - and disgusts me to see your kind of arrogance.

Dec 30, 2018
simpleton_excretion_urinal has his/hers/its? "TOP SECRET" list of all the communists he/she/it? knows... Persona;lly!

But he/she/it? will never showthe list to anyone. Always claiming that list is after all "TOP SECRET",

In all actuality? that paper he/she/it? is clutching to their bosom? Is it's Mother's grocery list she gave it to go to the grocery store.

Instead, he/she/it? spent the money on crack & is right now hiding in the basement? Gibbering it's delusions on the Internet!

Dec 30, 2018
rrander
cold killed almost five million people in 2018
It's complicated isn't it? (I suspect you are not aware of that.) It is not just about heat vs cold. For example - pollution kills a similar # of people every year -
https://www.indep...751.html
How about drought? How about diseases that move around because of temperature changes? - https://www.who.i...ter6.pdf

So as we keep adding more folks to the planet - don't you think it is a good idea to study our world? Maybe listen to the scientists?

At very least - we need to wean off fossil fuels - make a dent in those pollution deaths - and develop a sustainable energy system - that can give everyone a high quality of life.

Dec 30, 2018
oh-oh my bad , all the BS , nobody read the article , , LOL

''The mercury is up to 16 degree Celsius (29 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than usual for this time of the year for southern Australia, ''

i guess somebody forgot the decimal point & marble bar is usually 49 in Dec .


Dec 30, 2018
Because of the Milankovic cycles. Maybe you've heard of them.

Dumb da dumb dumb. Dumb da dumb dumb duhhhh.....

Da Snot, the "meat" loving, knob gobbler, brays again.
Hey jackass, instead of having your boyfriend pummelling your rectum, trying to hit that "sweet spot", perhaps you can look up the fact that Milankovitch cycles is a hypothesis, and NOT FACT.

Dumb da dumb dumb. Dumb da dumb dumb duhhhh.....

Dec 30, 2018
Show practicing communists in the Democratic Party,

So quickly we forget Obama and the dreams of his communist father, Frank Marshall Davis. The "leader of the free world" a self-righteous communist.

Dec 30, 2018
Our resident hophobe says
Milankovitch cycles is a hypothesis, and NOT FACT


despite the evidence presented by Milankovitch, it wasn't until the publication of the pioneering work of Hays, Imbrie and Shackleton in 1976 that the Milankovitch theory attained widespread acceptance
http://climatica....h-cycles

So one wonders what homophobes point is. What is your point? Given that (for example) gravity is still considered a theory. Can you provide support for asserting that Milankovitch cycles are hypothesis - rather than moving on to becoming theory or fact?

Discussion of Hypothesis/theory/fact/law - https://curiosity...riosity/

Dec 30, 2018
I've never seen the science behind these claims that '' global warming causes bigger heat waves '' , surely the only claim that can be made is that all temps everywhere are 1 degree more than they would be otherwise . Whew ! makes me sweat .

Dec 30, 2018
cant drive
cant think
cant stay sober
cant invent
cant create
cant do more than waste electricity spreading deceitful lies & cowardly hate-mongering.

cant, snooze, eggy, & auntie the useless twats for bigotry & stuporstition.

The four of them sharing the same crack pipe.

An interesting aside, that I have wondered about for years. That bleating of "THE INEVITABLE RISE OF COMMUNIST GLOBAL DOMINATION"?

Has been such a right-wing fetish, since the 19th century. In endless infantile rants of distress.

You guys need to relieve your distress? Ask your mommies to change your diapers!

Marxism as written was a pipedream.
Marxism as practiced, was a nightmare.
You altright fairytails are the only stupes still faithfully preaching yje "inevitability" of the Communist Revolution.

What really makes this a cream-pie in your face?
Is that your fuhrer putin & his KGB cronies are the board of directors for the Global Fascist Axis. Of which you are all so besotted.

Dec 30, 2018
egg
How exactly do you KNOW for a fact where we are wrt the interglacial period?
Your question gets to the heart of the discussion egg. Science has developed a massive body of information about Earth's geology/climate over the past 4.6 billion years. What I know (damn limited) comes from reading - and to me it is pretty impressive. Scientists use techniques like tree ring/sediment/ice core/fossil/nuclear etc. etc analysis to put together a picture of Earth's history.
says greenio

Like you, I have also read the reports. But unlike you, I am NOT impressed by climate scientists who are in complete agreement with the research (consensus), while vilifying those climate scientists who disagree with consensus and call for further research, rather than accept the results of those climate scientists whose main source of funding for their research is paid by taxpayers through the US Treasury and the auspices of government approval. Location, not region is key.

Dec 30, 2018
-contd-
@greenio
The picture is always being worked on. THAT is how we know. Putting it bluntly - if you are not even remotely aware of this painstakingly complex process - you are just being an asshole wanting to make assertions on a science site. If you want to be critical of this body of knowledge - you better have the appropriate qualifications - and be highly educated on the topic. I am not - but I am in awe of the amazing work of science. It blows my mind - and disgusts me to see your kind of arrogance.
says greenio

The picture that is always worked on is that of the general consensus - which is that the Earth will be completely underwater within a given time (80 yrs) in order to circumvent the possibility that the Earth may only be undergoing normal/natural changes that have yet to be accounted for in the records. This is calculated to cause panic and fear amongst the public so as to ensure their support for the IPCC and other orgs who also tout the GW claim

Dec 30, 2018
-contd-
AGW is uppermost in the minds of the consensus driven climatologists - who find it absolutely necessary to place absolute blame on the human element, which is to say, had it not been for humanity, there could never have been such increases in temps and melting of glaciers - while also having to ADMIT to the fact that the climate/weather was much warmer/hotter in the Jurassic age of dinosaurs and that it could happen again. It is imperative to keep the public worried that their beachfront properties will be swamped with ocean water at sometime within the next 80 years. That flooding of land will surely keep the money pouring into the coffers of climate scientists who depend on taxpayer money for their sustenance and subsistence.
However, nations like China are exempt from this onslaught of AGW information. There is yet to be a campaign to prevent trade deals with China - unless and until they rid themselves of the use of fossil fuels altogether now. Fear of China?

Dec 30, 2018
OK, here's the deal:

We know for certain that the Earth's orbital and rotational parameters change over time. We know it because we can measure it, and predict it. This happens for a couple of reasons. First, the other planets in the Solar System exert gravitational forces that modify the Earth's orbital parameters, for example where in its orbit it gets closer to and farther from the Sun, and what the inclination of the orbit is. Second, the Earth is spinning, and this causes it to precess, just like a gyroscope does and for much the same reasons.

So that part is merely observed fact, not hypothesis or theory.

Peaks and valleys in the insolation predicted by these orbital and rotational changes have been observed in climate, by various proxies- tree ring widths, foraminifera population variations in deep mud cores, isotopic analysis, ice cores, and others. These match up quite well with the orbital changes.
[contd]

Dec 30, 2018
[contd]
None of these are hypotheses or theories either. They are facts, just as the orbital and rotational changes of Earth are facts.

So, here we have a known modulation of insolation, and the hypothesis that this changes Earth's climate. And over there we have known changes in climate, not merely from different proxies but different *kinds* of proxies. Some are biological, some paleontological, some physics, some geological. Now, when you make a hypothesis and make some predictions that should be correct if it's right, and then go look and those predictions turn out correct, then we call that a "theory." Not a hypothesis.

So let's try to keep our terminology correct, shall we? It's the Milankovic *theory*. Period.

Dec 30, 2018
-contd-
The question is: Is it fear of China or is it fear of Chinese-style Communism and the fact that China is a Nuclear Power, that prevents a delegation consisting of greenonions, algore and others who support the IPCC and other doom and gloom climate orgs from traveling as a large group to Beijing and knocking on the door of the Communist Party there to announce that: "We have come to give you Chinese Communists notice that either you stop polluting and using fossil fuels or we will ________" Enter your choice of threats.
Chances are that you will be summarily kicked out of the country - possibly thrown into their local hoosegow, OR placed, blindfolded in front of a firing squad. It would be said of the delegation that: "They blinked and were only 'paper tigers'" - which really is quite apt a description of American climate AGW supporters/paper tigers who will not rock the boat where Communist nations are to be found. Any protests in Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela? NO?

Dec 30, 2018
And if you think we can't predict the orbital cycles, go check out an ephemeris some time. You might need some math though. Here's a good one:

https://ssd.jpl.n...emerides

They use these to guide spacecraft. They made it to Pluto. And the data goes all the way from planets down to asteroids. You can even get spacecraft locations, though you have to do some math. Many astronomers use these ephemerides to confirm their observations; because astronomers can see and measure the sky, including stars so distant that no orbital parameters we experience can affect their positions, this is a constant check on the accuracy of the data.

How do you think we're looking for threatening asteroids and comets? Examining animal entrails or tea leaves?

Dec 30, 2018
egg
the general consensus - which is that the Earth will be completely underwater within a given time (80 yrs)
Why don't you give us some references to the science that says that the Earth will be "completely under water" within 80 years. Your screed above is total drivel - always taking science - and then turning it into politics. But if you are so smart - show what scientists said that the Earth will be completely under water. Further - show us that this is the 'general consensus.'

Dec 30, 2018
Standard trolling: make claims on behalf of persons not present then ignore all calls for confirmation in those persons' words. You'll get nothing but more bluster from @SEU.

Dec 30, 2018
So egg. What are your qualifications, and in what way are you working in the field of climate - that makes you qualified to be "NOT impressed by climate scientists." I will give an example to explain why I think this question is critical. I am reading a book on health - written by a doc. In the section on human cell function - I am blown away by the complexity. In the mitochondria - there are some 1,500 proteins. I have no idea how you count 1500 proteins. Cells in the brain and the heart contain thousands of mitochondria. If I wanted to criticize the consensus view of the workings of a cell - I would need to have some qualifications. Standing on the sidelines - and declaring that I am "NOT impressed" - would make me really stupid, and an asshole. The work becomes so complex, and specialized - I must have the required education - if I want to join in the hard work of developing the science. cont.

Dec 30, 2018
Accusing the scientists of fraud (as you and the other deniers do) - especially when you don't have the level of knowledge, or involvement in the field - is just ignorant.
Last point. You are of course entitled to your opinion - as uninformed as it may be. Here is the problem. I am not a young earth creationist. I think they are total idiots. I admire science. So I go to science sites - with the objective of enjoying the unfolding picture of our universe. I think - that I would be an asshole - to go to YEC web sites - and deliberately troll the sites.

See the point?

Dec 31, 2018
Accusing the scientists of fraud (as you and the other deniers do) - especially when you don't have the level of knowledge, or involvement in the field - is just ignorant.
Last point. You are of course entitled to your opinion - as uninformed as it may be. Here is the problem. I am not a young earth creationist. I think they are total idiots. I admire science. So I go to science sites - with the objective of enjoying the unfolding picture of our universe. I think - that I would be an asshole - to go to YEC web sites - and deliberately troll the sites.

says greenio

I see that you have bought into the lies emanating from the Troll Da Scheide, who claims to be knowledgeable wrt my personal beliefs. If I were a young earth christian, whatever that is, I certainly would not be trying to convert anyone on physorg. But since I am not a believer in a "young Earth", I can only inform you that DaSchnotnose is a Liar who is also a stalker of the worst type

Dec 31, 2018
I am still waiting to hear of a delegation of AGWites traveling to Red China to force, beg, or cajole the Communist Politburo in Beijing to cease polluting their atmosphere, land and waters with fossil fuels. Will it happen? It would take some very brave Souls, highly motivated and with less regard for their own life to pull it off. I know that neither YOU nor big mouth Al Gore would be willing to place your own life in jeopardy to save humanity.
Well, maybe YOU might. but certainly not the former V.P. from Tennessee. If I were to go to Beijing to make my case, I would bring Da Pussy and SpookyOtto along to entertain Xi Jinping with their juggling act with chopsticks.

Dec 31, 2018
If I were a young earth christian
Sorry - my intention was not to suggest that you were a YEC - it was to use that as an example. Simply to say that it would be rude of someone who does not respect science - to come to a science board... or vice versa. While you may not be a YEC, you certainly do come to a science board - and denigrate the work of science.
I am still waiting to hear of a delegation of AGWites traveling to Red China
Again - you confuse politics with science. I despise the communist party in China - and I am well aware of the record they have of killing millions of people. Currently - it is all I can do to manage my own life. I am aware of my privilege, and grateful that I live in a country with a high degree of freedom. Also aware that many here in the U.S. do not have my level of privilege. Hoping to free myself up financially - so that I can work less to provide for myself - and more to create a more fair world.

Dec 31, 2018
Egg - I am still waiting to hear about your qualifications, and involvement in the process - for critiquing the work of many thousands, of highly educated, trained, hard working scientists - who have brought us the incredible depth of understanding of 4.6 billion years of Earth's history, and now continue to develop the picture - in terms of our climate today - and what may happen in the future.

Dec 31, 2018
It is a sign of the sheer stupidity of reactionary posturing.
When the altright fairytails are expressing their abiding envy & jealousy that the Left Fascists are more competent at mass murder than the Right Fascists.

"Oh Himmler! Tell us that isn't so?"

Dec 31, 2018
Alt-right? God you are such an idiot.

Dec 31, 2018
Now, when you make a hypothesis and make some predictions that should be correct if it's right, and then go look and those predictions turn out correct, then we call that a "theory." Not a hypothesis. HAAWWW..HEEE...HAAWWW

LMAO.
Da Snot, the "meat" loving, knob gobbler, brays again.
As his boyfriend pummels his rectum, trying to hit his "sweet spot", he's getting the shite between his ears rattled, which he then spews onto the forum.
https://en.wikipe...h_cycles

Dec 31, 2018
"Prof. Dr H. Stephen Schneider, lead author in Working Group II of the IPCC (said in 1989): 'For these reasons we have to announce terrifying scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements with no mention of any doubts whatever which we might have. In order to attract attention, we need dramatic statements leaving no doubt about what is said. Every one of us researchers must decide how far he would want to be honest rather than effective."

Dec 31, 2018
Hey snoose - did you purposely leave off the last line of the quote from Dr. Schneider?
Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both


You evil little shits - you have no ethics at all.

https://judithcur...ication/

Dec 31, 2018
Interesting article actually written by Dr. Schneider - in which he discusses the dishonesty of people like snoose - in twisting truth. The need to persuade people with lies and dishonesty says a lot about the kind of people you are snoose.
https://stephensc...ogy.html
Despite many attempts on my part — in my books, papers, talks, and other op-eds — to outline my opinions and dispel the media-propagated myths, the distortions continue to this day

Dec 31, 2018
You evil little shits - you have no ethics at all.

My sentiments exactly. Lies, misinformation, propaganda, troll (and Russian) funded websites, and anti-democracy types that refuse to even recognize that these extreme heat waves (which were at one time extremely rare) are the problem. Not recognizing heat waves are part of the package that comes with the modern Anthropogenic Global Warming, is just another fallacy the extremist right likes to propagate.


Dec 31, 2018
This is where you need to apply the Turing Test. Which is based on evaluating the tested for moral judgement & emotional empathy.

The deniershills, woocultists, theocratic fakirs, seditious collaborators & outright con artists of quackery, all fail that test.

There is no humanity in that gaggle of mountebanks. Just despicably evil programming.

Dec 31, 2018
thanks for the link

https://judithcur...ication/

an exhaustive coverage of the issue

but you just know who is right when the lead news items are two monuments to truth , ''Climate change '' [sic[ and ' the 'russian collusion '' , to bad you guys have the MSM working for you .

Dec 31, 2018
to bad you guys have the MSM working for you
Just brush aside the fact that you have just been caught putting up a totally dishonest quote. You are so desperate to reveal the grand conspiracy (the one that exists in your mind) - that you will happily lie - and when caught - go right into the next phase from the denier play book - distraction. The MSM does not work for me. I don't have a lot of patience for the garbage that comes out of the MSM - but that is more because I think they waste our time with superficial drivel. Turn on the evening news - get 5 minutes of what happened in the world today - and 25 minutes of commercials - and who won Dancing with the Stars last night.

Like I say - you have no ethics.

Dec 31, 2018
One can have the greatest tactics ever, but if the army runs out of food the tactics don't matter any more.

Science doesn't need tactics. Just facts.

Dec 31, 2018
Stephen Schneider was a AGW Cult alarmist, hell bent on propagating PATHOLOGICAL LIES just to sustain the Cult's dogma.

https://www.youtu...hR1pNhLI
Why he defended those emails?. Because he FULLY participated in the DECEIT.
https://www.lavoi...ails.pdf

Dec 31, 2018
Stephen Schneider was a AGW Cult alarmist
He was a scientist. What ever your opinion of him personally - does not change the fact that snoose just lied about what he said. Typical denier/obfuscator. Nothing of any substance to contribute - so throw out distraction - from our resident homophobic creep.

Dec 31, 2018
lots of good stuff @antgors link ;;

''Wigley continues:
I suspect that de Freitas deliberately chose other referees who are members
of the skeptics camp. I also suspect that he has done this on other occasions.
How to deal with this is unclear, since there are a number of individuals
with genuine scientific credentials who could be used by an unscrupulous
editor to ensure that "anti-greenhouse" science can get through the peer
review process (Legates, Balling, Lindzen, Baliunas, Soon, and so on). The
peer review process is being abused, but proving this would be difficult.''

Dec 31, 2018
cont'd ,
This is a damning admission by Wigley: he acknowledges that these skeptics have
impeccable scientific credentials; the only reason that they should be banned from
reviewing papers for journal publication is that they don't buy into their dogma of
global warming! This email dispels any doubt that this cosy club redefined "peers" to
mean "scientists who agree with us"—which makes a mockery of the entire idea of
"peer review".

Dec 31, 2018
random quotes

Kevin Trenberth wrote:

Hi all

Well I have my own article on where the heck is global warming? We are asking that here
in Boulder where we have broken records the past two days for the coldest days on
record. We had 4 inches of snow. The high the last 2 days was below 30F and the normal
is 69F, and it smashed the previous records for these days by 10F. The low was about
18F and also a record low, well below the previous record low. This is January weather
(see the Rockies baseball playoff game was canceled on saturday and then played last
night in below freezing weather).

Dec 31, 2018
And snoose demonstrates that he/she could not care less that he/she is the one who has engaged in an act of dishonesty - on an open internet science site. He/she just goes right on posting - never missing a beat - pushing the conspiracy theory - and never taking one iota of responsibility for his/her own behavior. It is a waste of time to try to affect any change - they are immune to being shamed....

Dec 31, 2018
No, not immune. They just pretend they are to troll. It burns in their bellies... and in their subconscious. The storm of data has convinced everyone but the hardliners. And those who cannot afford to admit it.

Lynch mobs hanging polluters from lamposts, and nuclear weapons being used for ethnic cleansing to get water, may be the only solutions, and that's going to be really bad. Really bad. I don't expect to be around to see it, and I'll work against it all I can, but one can only do so much.

You can lead a person to knowledge but you can't make it think.

Jan 01, 2019
@GreenO
they are immune to being shamed
it's part of being a martyr
https://en.wikipe..._complex

there are also some here who get paid to deny anything climate, so it's hard to differentiate them from the martyr complex idiots

Usually, a good indicator is their acceptance of physics or knowledge in related fields, but can be demonstrated in how they make arguments

antigor and shooty are more likely paid given their answers typically involve repeating the exact same lie in every climate thread, whereas snoose, uba, alche or certain others are far more likely either very stupid or afflicted with the martyr complex, which sometimes includes D-K

religious idiots denying climate science are usually either martyr complex or Dunning-Kruger, but almost always delusional sheep following someone else's lead, like eggy

watch how they answer and you'll start to see the pattern

Jan 01, 2019
hehe , thanks for the laugh , happy new year everyone

[ by the way its been a warm winter here so far ]

Jan 01, 2019
its been a warm winter here so far


https://phys.org/...dia.html

Jan 01, 2019
snoose
hehe , thanks for the laugh
So I see you laughing - and it seems to me that there is 2 possibilities. Either you don't understand the point being made. Or - you do understand the point, and you think it is funny.
The point is that facts/truth matter in science (well in life really.) You present yourself as someone - honestly wanting to engage in an exchange of ideas (called debate.) You were caught - in a very deliberate lie. Lies are evidence - either of stupidity, or of deliberate malfeasance. When presented with that lie - you ignored the reality of that lie - but continued right on - pushing your conspiracy theory.
Captain just outlined the problem for us - and you laugh. The real kicker is - tmrw, next week, next year etc. - you will still be presenting yourself as someone genuinely interested in a good faith exchange of ideas. As Captain points out - either a deliberate liar, or DK.

Jan 01, 2019
''very stupid or afflicted with the martyr complex, which sometimes includes D-K''

hmm yes , so is that you would desecribe this person, Scot Adams ?

https://www.youtu...oKwQPXY0

Jan 01, 2019
re being a troll , i am here because you guys are so commited to one side , its not a place for debate , its just fun to attack rigidly held ideas with other ideas

Jan 01, 2019
i am here because you guys are so commited to one side
You mean the side of science - right?
its not a place for debate
But you doggedly demand that Captain explain AGW in his own words! In other words you are openly admitting to being nothing more than a provocative troll.
its just fun to attack rigidly held ideas with other ideas
Just being a contrarian - does not make you smart. I think it is important to challenge rigidly held ideas - to see how they can be defended. The atheist community (consider myself an atheist) challenge religious views. But for the most part (not always) - that is an honest push to expose sloppy thinking. A search for truth. You are clearly not interested in truth - just in being a jerk. Fuck off. You create a hideous dilemma for people interested in honest dialogue. Ignore you - and you win. Engage you - and you win - cuz you have no ethics.

Jan 01, 2019
'' demand that Captain explain AGW in his own words! ''

yes and i'm still waiting,, should be pretty easy, whats the big problem?

I Won ! yippeee i won ! what did i win ?

ethics ? what that ? Hillary MSM Bilderbergers , Bush ,WMD ?

the truth will be revealed ,,in time ,, about AGW anyway

Jan 01, 2019
I Won ! yippeee i won ! what did i win ?
You won the prize for biggest asshole. You see - science moves forward with a very disciplined process. A big part of that process - is the exchange of information. In exchanging information - we make assumptions about integrity/truth. You gladly flaunt your lack of interest in integrity and truth. It makes it that much harder for those of us interested in progress - cuz we have to waste energy - getting to know who is an asshole, and who is for real. So you win - in the sense that you accomplish your goal - which is clearly to fuck with people, and the process - just because you can. Congratulations.

Jan 01, 2019
lol ,, not the biggest russian bot ?

''science moves forward with a very disciplined process ''

too disciplined for us mere mortals i guess , not much point in 'exchanging information' then ?

like this one , https://www.youtu...YtRkCKms

Jan 01, 2019
not much point in 'exchanging information' then ?
With liars and assholes? No point what so ever - as you can't trust the integrity of the process. That is why science has one huge built in error checking process. The process is transparent by definition. When we studied research in my psychology class - we were taught that we had to document our experiments to the nth detail. That way - others could replicate the experiment - and validate it - or demolish it. But you don't validate/demolish something from the peanut gallery. You have to actually do the work - and then your work gets subjected to the same process.

If you are ever caught lying - you are done. Then you have to satisfy your childish need to fuck with the process - by getting on internet sites and telling lies - and when you get called out for telling those lies - you move on to the next article - and try the same bullshit.


Jan 01, 2019
When trolls argue it means the conventional wisdom is a lie.

Jan 01, 2019
When trolls argue it means the conventional wisdom is a lie.
When trolls argue on the science site about the science article with no science it means they are afraid of science.

They shout about love
But when push comes to shove
They look for things they're afraid of

Jan 01, 2019
@snoozeTROLL
i am here because you guys are so commited to one side , its not a place for debate , its just fun to attack rigidly held ideas with other ideas
first of all, to be a debate, there must be two sides to the story
in AGW Science, there is reality and there is your side

the only legitimate "debate" in climate science is how to address the situation effectively, and you never actually address that at all, in any way, except to state your opinion as the only potential factual belief that can be had "because you guys are so commited to one side , its not a place for debate"[sic]
should be pretty easy, whats the big problem?
it is easy

But why should we be the ones capitulating in this debate when you're the idiot making claims without evidence?

it doesn't matter what I say anyway - you already admitted that you're here to troll and you have demonstrated that you don't read the studies or references

Jan 01, 2019
''there must be two sides to the story''

so its like a religion then ?

''how to address the situation effectively,''

more taxes should do it and you better nuke China and indonesia while you are at it

read studies ,, hmm do you do that ? or just post them

'' it means they are afraid of science''

you mean like '' The mercury is up to 16 degree Celsius (29 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than usual for this time of the year '' a lunatic assertion u can check on a weather site , u should be afraid of that one


Jan 01, 2019
You know what, @snooze? Nature's not going to change its mind just because you think otherwise. It's a serious problem and some of us are very concerned about it. If you don't think a 16 degrees Celsius shift in temperature for weeks at a time is unusual, perhaps you should look at it for what it is and that's a danger to life.

I was just looking at the newspaper from Sydney Australia and their current heat wave is in the 100+F range with no end in sight according to the forecasts. Not only is it a danger to life also the local economy put on hold while people try to seek cooler places.

More local to the USA, we've been having an unusual round of weather across lower 48.

Jan 01, 2019
goracle the homophobe
More lies from Stephen Schneider


Actually - more lies from goracle. On page 172 of the book goracle references - you will see exactly the same lie - as was presented by liar snoose.

Misrepresenting information for the purpose of proving that you personally are right - is the stock and trade of the dishonest deniers. They have no ethics - just want to fuck with things.

Jan 01, 2019
@snoozeTROLL
so its like a religion then
your delusional belief that AGW is false?
yes, you're participating in a conspiracy theory religion

but don't worry - all you need is education to learn at least the basics of the scientific method
and that is free at MIT
more taxes should do it and you better nuke China and indonesia while you are at it
so, do you honestly think that will work?
I don't
You're so invested in the politics that you can't see the science - just the delusional rhetoric you espouse
read studies ,, hmm do you do that ? or just post them
I've read every one that I've linked or referenced

you, demonstrably, have not
you mean like
stopped there
you're quoting the article, not the science

this is where you and I differ:
you demonstrably believe that because it's printed on the interwebz, it's true

I believe that scientific evidence requires validation and adherence to scientific principles

Jan 02, 2019
Accusing the scientists of fraud (as you and the other deniers do) - especially when you don't have the level of knowledge, or involvement in the field - is just ignorant.
Last point. You are of course entitled to your opinion - as uninformed as it may be. Here is the problem. I am not a young earth creationist. I think they are total idiots. I admire science. So I go to science sites - with the objective of enjoying the unfolding picture of our universe. I think - that I would be an asshole - to go to YEC web sites - and deliberately troll the sites.

See the point?
says green

You should know by now after reading many of my posts that the "claim" that I'm a "young earth creationist" or "young earth christian" or whatever, is a complete fabrication that has been lied about over and over in many physorg forums by the Pussyturds Da Scheide and Captain Beelzebub, and sometimes, the other Pussyturd, SpookyOtto. These creeps resent my presence in this science site

Jan 02, 2019
@greenonions
And further, my opinions in regard to the possibility of AGW/climate change/global warming are my own, with the understanding that the reasons for these changes are many, and that those changes may not all be the result of anthropogenic caused climate/weather patterns/problems. I particularly deride the climatologist/politician cabal where taxpayer money is required in order to fix the problems, rather than a full-scale propaganda machine to inform the public of what may result within the next 80+ years unless the public helps to prevent it from occurring.
As a Creationist, I have deep respect for this planet that was created to eventually be the home of the human race. It is not within my power to make the changes that are due in order to fix these problems. The problems are still many and ridding the planet of the use of fossil fuels is unfeasible unless a cheap and plentiful alternative is found to replace fossil fuel usage.

Jan 02, 2019
@greenonions
In any case, the prospect of AGW that may or may not affect the whole of the Earth is still, in my opinion, questionable, and the heightened excitations of the AGW community leaves me to pause and wonder WHY. Why has all the blame for this global warming and melting of glaciers been heaped only upon the shoulders of humans, when there are other possibilities that are also responsible for hot weather, etc other than driving a fossil-fueled vehicle, such as heat from hydrothermal and volcanic sources. Another bothersome concern is that AGW politico-climate mavens DEMAND taxpayer money from western nations, notably the American taxpayers, whose taxable incomes are often less than enough to live on - while the rich politicians such as Al Gore are making millions of USD in their climate-change related speaking engagements. IOW, these fat cats that are alleged AGW conservationists are, in reality, only in it to make themselves much more wealthy.

Jan 02, 2019
that I'm a "young earth creationist"
I was not accusing you of being a YEC - I was just using that as an example. If you look back to my post on Dec 31 - you will see that I was very clear about that point.
ridding the planet of the use of fossil fuels is unfeasible unless a cheap and plentiful alternative is found
We are in the process of developing exactly that. Renewables are now as cheap as fossil fuels - and the price is falling. Renewables are certainly plentiful.
in my opinion, questionable
Why has all the blame for this global warming and melting of glaciers been heaped only upon the shoulders of humans
My opinion, and your opinion are irrelevant. It shows that you do not understand science. Fact - the climate is warming. Fact - the scientific consensus is that the driver of this warming is green house gases in the atmosphere. If you have research that suggests otherwise - go ahead and publish. That is how it works.

Jan 02, 2019
only in it to make themselves much more wealthy
I agree with much of the criticism of Al Gore. I think he is sincere in his concern for the Earth - but I see that in many ways he hurts the issue of science - by trying to be some grand spokesperson. Al Gore is not a scientist - he is a politician - and now a celebrity. Don't confuse the issues. By focusing on Al Gore - and not on the science - you show that you are more interested in celebrity politics - than you are in science. Al Gore is trying to alert people to the science - but often uses hyperbole to try to get people aroused. He is clearly very wealthy - and uses that wealth to give himself a megaphone. I think he hurts the science - and wish that he would be more precise with his language. He gives the denier community a convenient target - which is unfortunately sometimes appropriate. Interesting how so many focus on Gore - and don't follow the actual science.

Jan 02, 2019
''because it's printed on the interwebz, it's true

I believe that scientific evidence requires validation and adherence to scientific principles''

strange then , we don't see u objecting to the above bs article

Jan 02, 2019
Climatologist Roy Spencer - The Bias in Climate Science

https://www.youtu...fpG3KvbQ

don't watch, its blasphemy !!

Jan 02, 2019
@greenonions
You and I may differ in opinions, but not by very much. I agree that the global climate is getting warmer and that glaciers are melting in a few locations. Such changes have been occurring throughout the geological history of the Earth so that it is a repeatable process for many more billions of years as long as Earth exists, and as the Earth continues to take care of itself. That we understand this repeatable process is important to remind humans that they are not quite the "rulers" of this planet as they think they are. Homo Sapiens is but a blip in overall history and, according to scientists, was an accidental occurrence that may or may not ever occur again - which is why they are desperate to repeat the process of genesis in the lab.
-contd-

Jan 02, 2019
-contd-
@greenions
As to humans being the cause of AGW by their usage of fossil fuels, do try to remember that fossil fuels have, for most if not all of human history, been the reason for the present existence of the descendants of the first Homo Sapiens millions of years ago - from the very first discovery of how to make fire and burn wood to keep warm and to cook food - to the present ability to keep homes warm, cook food and turn on lights. Humans have come a long way from primitive living.
But the problem isn't the current ability to warm homes and cook food - it is the perception that it is humans who are the cause of most of the pollution of land, sea and atmosphere - and that pollution is the result of the modern usage of fossil fuels to run cars, airplanes, buses, etc. - as well as the coal, gas and oil-driven utilities that provide the electricity to do all the mundane things that modern humans require to live happily and comfortably.
-contd-

Jan 02, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
You also must remember that each time that the power goes out in any populated region - particularly in the western hemisphere, such as is caused by severe hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, ice and snowstorms and other inclement weather - who is it that suffers the most? Why, it is homo sapiens that is hurt by it, where their lives are disrupted in many ways.
So, the humans who are claimed to be the primary cause of AGW are also the victims of changes in weather and climate.
Now, YOU claim that there are new devices that would mitigate the usage of fossil fuels. We all know of the power of the Sun for solar panels, and the power of the wind for windmills, but wind and solar power is unethical when eagles and other beautiful birds are randomly killed by windmills and solar farms as they fly overhead - where even offshore facilities could also kill.

Jan 02, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
Battery-powered vehicles still depend on fossil fueled facilities to provide electricity - particularly on cloudy days and nighttime. Such things are unavoidable. Electricity from nuclear-powered facilities are fine for recharging if one is not anti-nuclear; hydrothermal facilities are also naturally-derived energy if you happen to live in Iceland; nuclear fission is still in its very early stages and, IMO, too dangerous. So what else is there that could keep all of humanity happy for all their electrical power needs? Some lighting fixtures have been improvised to take full advantage of the sunshine over a roof - mostly set up in third-world nations, as well as improvisation of air-conditioning with plastic bottles - also in those nations.
But the main point is, Mr. Onions - that humans DEMAND cheap electrical power, and many more have learned to not pollute and to recycle trash - as you and I do.
But the word needs to be SHOUTED OUT to those who don't

Jan 02, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
Now, as to the hypocrisy of the AGW-derived Rich Elite Ruling Class - with or without Al Gore - the obvious point to be made is that these RERC have NOT ceased their OWN usage of fossil fuels as they drive around in their expensive fossil-fueled vehicles and fly to and from expensive fossil fuel powered hotels to attend expensive fossil fuel powered IPCC meetings to talk with each other about the need for those poor working slobs in those rich nations like the US, Germany, France, etc, as well as those poverty-stricken shithole nations (who deserve to acquire the wealth of the richer nations so that there will be WEALTH EQUALITY for all), and to DEMAND that money be transferred to THEIR collective IPCC bank account to be distributed to the poor and needy nations whose corrupt leaders will ensure that the poor never see a dime of that money geared to help end their poverty - as well as to struggling climatologists who expect to be paid off.
i.e. AGW hypocrisy

Jan 02, 2019
ERRATUM -
"...live in Iceland; nuclear fission is still in its very early stages and, IMO, too dangerous."
in the above statement, nuclear fission should have been Nuclear FUSION.

Jan 02, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
Oh yes - the science and its method(ology) -
Science is NEVER settled, no matter in which discipline it is claimed to be - not even in Medicine.
The volcanos at Krakatoa, Mount Aetna, and other volcanos around the world, as well as subduction zones are of great interest to me. But the one I am most concerned about (as others are), is the caldera at the super volcano in Yellowstone National Park in the US. When, not if she explodes, it could cause a new ice age that will make AGW appear wimpy by comparison.
Once it happens, it MAY rival the demise of the dinosaurs - but I will wait to find out - whether or not it occurs during my human host's lifetime.

Jan 02, 2019
I am just going to answer a couple of points. Firstly - clearly you are not at all informed about energy. There is plenty of wind and solar to power the earth. It can be backed up with hydro storage - and other storage devices are in the development. Fusion is a long ways off. I hope we master it some day - but it is not ready for today. Wind/solar/wave/tidal/geothermal/hydro/bio fuels are all here today - and we could transition over very fast if we chose to. Yes there would be a cost - as we would be retiring plants before their time - and that is expensive. The price on renewables is falling fast - and it certainly does not make sense economically to build nukes.
Science is NEVER settled,
So what? You are correct - but that does not stop us developing gps does it? And when I get sick - I go to the doctor. Because although not ultimately settled - the doctor knows more about cancer than I do - so I go consult with her - and accept her wisdom!!!

Jan 02, 2019
Science just used Newton's Theory of Universal Gravitation to guide a spacecraft beyond Pluto to a rendezvous with a minor planet a billion miles further from the Sun than Pluto.

The TUG is several hundred years old.

Would you call that "settled science?"

Just askin'.

Jan 02, 2019
Science just used Newton's Theory of Universal Gravitation to guide a spacecraft beyond Pluto to a rendezvous with a minor planet a billion miles further from the Sun than Pluto.

The TUG is several hundred years old.

Would you call that "settled science?"

Just askin'.

Da Snot, the "meat" loving, knob gobbler, brays again and soils the forum with the "shite" between his ears.
It's Newton's LAWS that are used in space travel, and those are SETTLED. There are still many unanswered questions as to gravity, hence it remains a theory.

Are you going to keep letting your boyfriend pummel your rectum, trying to hit that "sweet spot" and rattling the shite between your ears?

Just askin'.

Jan 02, 2019
It's Newton's LAWS that are used in space travel, and those are SETTLED.
But you trolls said there is no "SETTLED SCIENCE."

Are you now admitting you lied?

Jan 02, 2019
It's Newton's LAWS that are used in space travel, and those are SETTLED.
But you trolls said there is no "SETTLED SCIENCE."

Are you now admitting you lied?

One thing that's absolutely settled, is that your boyfriend is pummelling the stupid out of you.

Jan 02, 2019
I am just going to answer a couple of points. Firstly - clearly you are not at all informed about energy.
says greenonions

Clearly I never said I'm an expert

There is plenty of wind and solar to power the earth. It can be backed up with hydro storage - and other storage devices are in the development. Fusion is a long ways off. I hope we master it some day - but it is not ready for today. Wind/solar/wave/tidal/geothermal/hydro/bio fuels are all here today - and we could transition over very fast if we chose to.


The same points I have already brought up

Yes there would be a cost - as we would be retiring plants before their time - and that is expensive. The price on renewables is falling fast - and it certainly does not make sense economically to build nukes.
Science is NEVER settled,
So what?


Money isn't everything, but IPCC et al seem eager to spend ours. The US needs to support her own citizens + some for charitable causes

Jan 02, 2019
It's Newton's LAWS that are used in space travel, and those are SETTLED.
But you trolls said there is no "SETTLED SCIENCE."

Are you now admitting you lied?
says Da Pussy

No, he didn't lie. There is no such thing as "SETTLED science". NOTHING is unshakable anywhere. All there is is the consensus of science and that can change at some point in time IF new and better discoveries are made by scientists/researchers. Not even Newton's Laws or Einstein's GR/SR are safe from the possibility of some relevant changes if there is merit.

Jan 02, 2019
Science just used Newton's Theory of Universal Gravitation to guide a spacecraft beyond Pluto to a rendezvous with a minor planet a billion miles further from the Sun than Pluto.

The TUG is several hundred years old.

Would you call that "settled science?"

Just askin'.
says Da Pussytard

What's your point/argument? Gravity is real - nobody denies that. Try stepping off a cliff edge to experience Gravity all the way down. That object Ultima Thule is only a 2,200 km long ROCK, not even a minor planet wrt the claim - and not even big enough for a family of raccoons to cavort on.
It more resembles the shape of a snowman, if anything.

To guide a spacecraft beyond Pluto is no big deal these days. Humans have been to the Moon and walked over its surface and returned to Earth. THAT is much more impressive.

Jan 02, 2019
Clearly I never said I'm an expert
But you try to discuss the subject - when you clearly have no real understanding of the topic.
The same points I have already brought up
But you say stupid things like this
and solar farms as they fly overhead
No - solar farms do not kill birds. CSPV does have a problem with birds flying through the beam. In general - the Uadubon society supports the use of solar panels. It is interesting how you are so concerned about the problem of bird kill - but not about this (just for example) - https://www.huffi...159.html

Right now energy choices are a question of the least bad. Wind and solar are the least bad. If you understood the subject in more depth - you would know about coal mining, and air quality in countries like China and India.

Jan 02, 2019
egg.
Gravity is real
So is the warming of the earth. So what is your point? You were the one who said that science is never settled - so by extension - we cannot KNOW anything (I think that is the point you are trying to make - but correct me if I am wrong.)
So when you get sick - do you go to the doc? If yes - is that not contradictory to someone who says "Science is never settled." Do you get the point? Right - science is never settled - so what? We work with the best information we have at any time - but always up for challenge. Until there is new information - I will take the antibiotic - or chemo therapy etc. - as it is the best information we have today. Do you see how those of us who value science - are sick of cocky little deniers - over and over and over saying the same things? "Science is never settled - so you can't believe a scientists. Nanny nanny boo boo"

Jan 02, 2019
The constant whining of climate deniers about bird kills at solar and wind sites is a trolling tactic. It's not worth responding to.

Jan 03, 2019
egg.
Gravity is real
So is the warming of the earth. So what is your point? You were the one who said that science is never settled - so by extension - we cannot KNOW anything (I think that is the point you are trying to make - but correct me if I am wrong.)
So when you get sick - do you go to the doc? If yes - is that not contradictory to someone who says "Science is never settled." Do you get the point? Right - science is never settled - so what? We work with the best information we have at any time - but always up for challenge. Until there is new information - I will take the antibiotic - or chemo therapy etc. - as it is the best information we have today. Do you see how those of us who value science - are sick of cocky little deniers - over and over and over saying the same things? "Science is never settled - so you can't believe a scientists. Nanny nanny boo boo"
says green

And I'll say it again - science is NEVER settled - however..
-cond-

Jan 03, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
I never said that humans cannot KNOW anything. What you learn and what you KNOW is only true IN THE PRESENT. e.g. YOUR example: "So when you get sick - do you go to the doc? The answer to that is - of course. For example: Mr.onions goes to the doc and is told he has only 1 year to live due to an inoperable brain tumour. The doc has no medicine, no way to cure you or to kill the aggressive tumour. Time to get your affairs in order. THAT is SETTLED SCIENCE.
But, 8 months later, a research team develops a method to remove the tumor from Mr.Onion's brain along with chemotherapy that will prevent the tumour from growing back.
So what does Mr.onions DO. Does he say NO, the science is already settled? Of course not. Well, maybe he would - it is hard to tell.
The point being that the science is NEVER settled while research is being carried out. The same with the AGW, Physics, Medicine, Business, Politics - these are ALWAYS CHANGING IN THE FUTURE.

Jan 04, 2019
@S_E_U.
For example: Mr.onions goes to the doc and is told he has only 1 year to live due to an inoperable brain tumour. The doc has no medicine, no way to cure you or to kill the aggressive tumour. Time to get your affairs in order. THAT is SETTLED SCIENCE.
But, 8 months later, a research team develops a method to remove the tumor from Mr.Onion's brain along with chemotherapy that will prevent the tumour from growing back.
So what does Mr.onions DO. Does he say NO, the science is already settled? Of course not. Well, maybe he would - it is hard to tell.
The point being that the science is NEVER settled while research is being carried out. The same with the AGW, Physics, Medicine, Business, Politics - these are ALWAYS CHANGING IN THE FUTURE.
In that 'vein': we know NOW the 'problem' (tumor/global warming) is REAL; and are working on/discussing ways to 'solve' (treat/remedy) the problem. Is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science/debate, S_E_U? :)

Jan 04, 2019
@RC
Good question. Everything that we are experiencing presently is In the "NOW". But fortunately, that Now becomes the Past and a new Now becomes the Present. Elementary, of course. It just means that what we THINK is "rock-solid truth" in the Now is capable of either surprising us or biting us on the arse if we stubbornly CLING to what we know Now, whether or not there is actual timely research going on, as its duration continues from our perspective of Now and stretching into the future, whether or not we are aware of it.
Everything in the Now is Real to us. Our keen perception of what we are experiencing NOW may or may not be regulated by the human brain processing of such emotions as Hope, concern, worry, faith, etc. But all the while, even if we are not aware of it, something else could be going on that is apart of what we KNOW at present. So with a bit of patience, the future could change, and when the future becomes NOW - there may be good news in it. Hope springs eternal

Jan 04, 2019
Pollution of the Earth - air, sea, land - is a tangible thing which can be changed in the future if a change is in the making. But it takes more than just the talking about those changes. It is more important to get the crucial information out to the public for the duration so that the public is kept well informed through the news media wrt their part in preventing GW and pollution. GW is also caused by natural Earth processes such as in volcanic eruptions emitting ash into the atmosphere, whether locally or globally. We have no control over volcanos, but we can devise better warning systems and things like face masks to protect lungs. And governments should be held more responsible for keeping their citizens better informed.

Jan 04, 2019
TrollianRealityCheck
In that 'vein': we know NOW the 'problem' (tumor/global warming) is REAL; and are working on/discussing ways to 'solve' (treat/remedy) the problem. Is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science/debate, S_E_U? :)

TRC
If it has been said once
it has been said a thousand times
your punctuation, capitalisation, bracketed textural commentary style
on first impression
as first impressions
are the important impression that count
give a disjointed cramped compressed confusing textural style
as though, TRC
you are trying to cram
as much
information
in the smallest space possible
which
in truth
it is your punctuation, bracketed capitalised style
that is using
all those thousand characters
that could otherwise be put to good use
Putting your point across

Jan 04, 2019
TrollianRealityCheck
In that 'vein': we know NOW the 'problem' (tumor/global warming) is REAL; and are working on/discussing ways to 'solve' (treat/remedy) the problem. Is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science/debate, S_E_U? :)

If you de-punctuate
You increase your available characters
For example

In that vein we know now the problem tumour global warming is real and are working on discussing ways to solve treat remedy the problem is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science debate SEU

Now RealityCheck
does not that look nicer pleasanter cleaner
and
most importantly
You now have more available characters to put your point across

Jan 04, 2019
As if you now had not noticed
RealityCheck
with all the punctuations
You are TrollianRealityCheck
without all the punctuations
You are RealityCheck

Jan 04, 2019
egg
And I'll say it again - science is NEVER settled - however..
So I will ask you again - what is the point you are trying to make? We agree that science is never - in a final sense settled. But also that we know what we know today - and work off that current state of understanding. So here is the kind of quote from you - that makes me respond.
In any case, the prospect of AGW that may or may not affect the whole of the Earth is still, in my opinion, questionable
If as we agree - science is never settled - then everything is 'questionable.' But in order to challenge the scientific consensus (that the earth is warming - and the driver of that warming is greenhouse gas accumulation) - you need evidence. My opinion, and your opinion - are irrelevant. You seem to not understand that. If you have evidence - then publish - and subject your 'evidence' to the rigors of science.

Jan 04, 2019
Why would a rural station that has never changed location or instrumentation have its data adjusted?

http://landscapes...5yGashaA

Jan 04, 2019
@snooseTROLL who ignores evidence
Why would a rural station that has never changed location or instrumentation have its data adjusted?
you've already asked this and it was answered more than a few times on this site

https://www.factc...re-data/

I would provide a more technical breakdown but you ignored that already the first few times you regurgitated this blatant falsehood argument from denial

Jan 04, 2019
your link is about a guy named homewood , mine is not

they have been adjusting rural stations upwards

too scared to read my link ? Is blasphemy ! tell me about that AGw hypothesis how does that work ?

Jan 04, 2019
This Aussi heat was mirrored in this East Anglia Desert

This Cambridgeshire summer was warm
for in these Shires
in these country fields
where these sleek race horses of kings
had not had a green blade of grass to nibble
the temperature went to 40°C for months
as now
at
a balmy 1°C
the Hollyhocks having flowered after the desert heat
are still flowering in their pots
while the hazel trees catkins and red flowers are in full bloom
as
a sense of feel
that this new year
is going to exceed 2018 40°C summer heat
In the desert of East Anglia
so
are Aussi friends
will look back at their 2018 Christmas summer
because
in their 2019 Christmas summer
the temperature are going to be hot
so hot, they will look back at this summer
Like a cool fresh breeze as they sipped their amber nectar

Jan 04, 2019
Ah yes O' to be in England the green and pleasant land ! , now filled with Muzzies

meanwhile , lots of blasphemy

https://www.youtu...tEKsgABw

Jan 04, 2019
another problem , papers like this tell me absoluley nothing . It is a description of an ideal rather than a practical illustration

https://agupubs.o...JD016187

Jan 04, 2019
TrollianRealityCheck
In that 'vein': we know NOW the 'problem' (tumor/global warming) is REAL; and are working on/discussing ways to 'solve' (treat/remedy) the problem. Is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science/debate, S_E_U? :)

If you de-punctuate
You increase your available characters
For example

In that vein we know now the problem tumour global warming is real and are working on discussing ways to solve treat remedy the problem is that how you'd characterize where we're at with AGW science debate SEU

Now RealityCheck
does not that look nicer pleasanter cleaner
and
most importantly
You now have more available characters to put your point across
says granville

It also looks much neater - no longer cluttered with extraneous verbiage that is often similar - unless the extraneous is crucial to making the point/argument. LOL

Jan 04, 2019
egg
And I'll say it again - science is NEVER settled - however..
So I will ask you again - what is the point you are trying to make? We agree that science is never - in a final sense settled. But also that we know what we know today - and work off that current state of understanding. So here is the kind of quote from you - that makes me respond.
In any case, the prospect of AGW that may or may not affect the whole of the Earth is still, in my opinion, questionable
If as we agree - science is never settled - then everything is 'questionable.' But in order to challenge the scientific consensus (that the earth is warming - and the driver of that warming is greenhouse gas accumulation) - you need evidence. My opinion, and your opinion - are irrelevant. You seem to not understand that. If you have evidence - then publish - and subject your 'evidence' to the rigors of science.
says greenonions

Da Pussyman had said:
-contd-

Jan 04, 2019
-contd-
@greenonions
Da Pussyman had said earlier - "But you trolls said there is no "SETTLED SCIENCE."

Apparently, Da PussyTroll believes that AGW is a "settled science", and has a commitment to AGW as a settled science undoubtedly caused by humans- and thinks of himself as YOUR ally due to YOUR argument that AGW is confirmed science - caused by humans.
I don't doubt that CO2, Methane, etc are greenhouse gases that are a component of pollutants that may or may not harm the environment in which organic organisms and human machines live.
But I/we object to the possibility of having our paid taxes from our taxable income stolen from the US Treasury who holds that money for safekeeping, to be forcibly given to such as IPCC, where it will make the recipients more comfortable with OUR money.
Perhaps you consider it a kindness to provide IPCC and other orgs with the ability to enrich themselves. I don't. The future may bring new climate science different from what you know today

Jan 04, 2019
snoose
now filled with Muzzies
Thanks snooze - you racists never seam to be able to keep your garbage to yourselves too long - do you?

Interesting to see the patterns. You and Otto share your racist turrets syndrome - and also demonstrate a fascinating lack of critical thinking. I often wonder how white supremacists can live with the cognitive dissonance needed - to hate people just because they look different - at the same time as trying to pretend to be educated, and enlightened. The really odd thing is - that in many cases - the one thing a racist hates, is to be called a racist.

BTW - I am a Brit (ex pat), and also an atheist. As long as you don't fuck with me - I am happy to live alongside you - no matter what your religion. Moslems have as much right to live in England as I do.

Jan 04, 2019
YOUR argument that AGW is confirmed science
You deniers always have to play stupid word games. We have agreed that in a final sense - nothing is settled. Everything is always open to challenge.
The evidence shows that the Earth is in a warming trend. The consensus of science is that the driver of that warming - is loading the atmosphere with green house gasses. If you have evidence to the contrary - publish. What part of what I have just said do you not understand?

The future may bring new climate science
We don't know what the future will bring - we have projections - but of course - we cannot see the future. BUT - until we arrive at that future - and we have that new evidence to examine - the science today - is the best knowledge/understanding that we have. Si?