Are mass shootings a white man's problem?

October 6, 2017 by Nick Haslam, The Conversation
Are mass shootings a white man's problem?
US mass shootings by race. author supplied

In the terrible aftermath of the Las Vegas massacre people have been urgently trying to explain it. Some have put race at the centre of their explanations. Mass shootings, they argue, reveal something sinister in the heart of whiteness.

A Newsweek headline asserted

"White men have committed more than any other group."

At CNN a commentator opined that "America has silently accepted the rage of " and diagnosed mass shootings as "a white man's problem". Elle magazine told us "white men's violence is the violence we've normalized" and that "white men's rage … is burning down the world".

There is no shortage of violence committed by white men. Their violent behaviour is sometimes viewed differently from that committed by other groups. But is it true there is a link between whiteness and mass shootings?

Mother Jones magazine has collated a database of American mass shootings that extends from 1982 to now. It contains a grievous record of 91 crimes where a shooter killed at least four victims. The of the shooter was coded as unknown or unclear in three cases. Of the 88 remaining shootings, 51 (58%) were committed by whites.

Sure enough, the statistically typical mass shooter is a white man. But is that evidence for a meaningful link between race and this form of violence? Not if we remember that whites are statistically typical Americans.

According to the 2016 US census, 61.3% of Americans were "white alone, not Hispanic or Latino". The proportion of white mass shooters is therefore almost exactly what we would expect it to be if whites and non-whites committed mass shootings at the same rate. Indeed it is (trivially) lower.

This graph plots the proportion of the 88 mass shooters in census-based racial groups against each group's proportion in the US population. The dotted line represents equality between the two proportions. Groups falling above or below the line have committed mass shootings above or below the rate expected given their representation in the population. Generally speaking, groups defined by race have committed these outrages at approximately the same rate, given their relative size.

Perhaps the surprising fact that white mass shooters are not proportionally over- represented is due to the long period covered by the Mother Jones database. Are more recent shootings whiter? The answer is no: of the 27 shootings in the past five years where the murderer's race is recorded, 10 (37%) were committed by white men.

This is not to say mass shootings committed by white men might not be distinctive in some respects. Nor does it preclude a racial double standard in how their atrocities are reported or perceived compared to those of others. But it does indicate that mass shootings themselves are not an inherently white problem.

Illusory correlation

Why is it then, that many people see a causal connection between whiteness and mass killings? Part of the answer may come from the searing recency of the Las Vegas killings and their white perpetrator. Part of it may come from the vexed links between race, US politics and gun culture. And part of the answer may be found in the typical colour contrast between mass shootings and mass killings committed by Islamic extremists.

Another part of the answer may involve a bias in how people judge associations between two phenomena. Humans often perceive "illusory correlations" where none exist objectively. There is evidence from cognitive psychology this is especially likely when one of the two phenomena is highly prevalent.

In a study published in 1998, participants were given information about 60 fictitious patients. Each patient was described as either having or not having a made-up (such as van Ork's disease) and as either having or not having a made-up of the disease (such as swollen joints). Participants were then asked to judge how strongly the symptom and the disease were correlated.

Participants were assigned to several different experimental conditions, which differed in how prevalent the disease was among the fictitious patients. But when it came to the symptom, in two of these conditions there was no correlation at all between symptom and disease, meaning the symptom was equally likely to occur whether the disease was present or absent.

In the low prevalence condition the disease was present 30% of the time. The symptom was present in half of these cases and absent in the rest. In the high prevalence group the disease was present 70% of the time. Again, the symptom was present in half of the disease cases and also in half of the no disease cases.

Participants in the low prevalence condition group correctly judged that there was no relationship between symptom and disease. But those in the high prevalence group saw a correlation between symptom and disease that simply did not exist.

The likely explanation is that participants paid special attention to cases where the symptom and disease co-occurred. This happened only nine times in the low prevalence condition, but 21 times in the high prevalence condition. Seeing symptom and cause occurring together so often led people to believe they were associated, although they were not.

The analogy to race and mass shootings should be clear. The shootings are the symptom and, in the eyes of some, whiteness is the disease that causes it. There is no actual correlation between being white and being a mass shooter in the US, but because whiteness is common we see many examples where the symptom and the disease go together. As a result, mass shootings are seen as linked to .

In this case, the diagnosis is incorrect. The problem is not white men, but men. So, not race, but gender. Only two of the 91 mass shootings were perpetrated by women.

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rderkis
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 06, 2017
Yep, let's make everything about race. Some people just can't get beyond race like the writer of this article.
classicplastic
2 / 5 (6) Oct 06, 2017
Clearly, the author's PC Gain is turned up to 11. There is a 10% gap the prevalence between black and white groups and 10% in an analytical study is hardly "trivial."

Bottom line for much of what's at the source of this divisive issue: "It's the culture, stupid!"
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (4) Oct 06, 2017
Psychopaths are everybody's problem. And they come in all shapes and colors. And their distinguishing feature is being born with a mental defect which leaves them unable to feel emotion, most notably empathy for the suffering of others.

Its a defect in a certain region of the brain. It exhibits in unique physical symptoms such as an unblinking stare. And the people who have this debility absolutely cannot be trusted to live in general society as they all have the compulsion to lie and to victimize the people around them.

Its time for us to give up this preoccupation with the things psychopaths use to victimize others, and to concentrate on identifying psychopaths themselves, and figuring out how to limit their ability to victimize.

What makes this most difficult is that they often occupy positions of influence and power from which they are able to resist attempts to expose them.

But THIS is the biggest problem that society faces and THIS is where our focus should lie.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (4) Oct 06, 2017
"The high incidence of [psycho]pathy in human society has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth.

"Those who have no conscience at all are a group unto themselves, whether they be homicidal tyrants or merely ruthless social snipers.

"The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.

"What distinguishes all of these people from the rest of us is an utterly empty hole in the psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions. [Martha Stout, Ph.D., The Sociopath Next Door]"

-From the article 'THE PSYCHOPATH - The Mask of Sanity'
https://www.cassi...path.htm

-appears to be a loose compendium worth reading-
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (3) Oct 06, 2017
The reason you may feel the need to own a gun is probably because you have come into contact with a psychopath in the past.

The reason you may want to prevent people from owning guns is probably because you have come into contact with a psychopath in the past.

The only way we can build a society based on true mutual trust and respect is to eliminate the influence of psychopathy, and it's evil twin tribalism, from the species.
Whydening Gyre
4 / 5 (2) Oct 06, 2017
Wow, Otto...
So many thoughts from you on the subject that it's tuff to anything specific to address.
But, here goes;
I... to concentrate on identifying psychopaths themselves, and figuring out how to limit their ability to victimize.
They gain an ability because; isn't that what predators are TRAINED to do...? By whom or what, do you think?
What makes this most difficult is that they often occupy positions of influence and power from which they are able to resist attempts to expose them.

How did they GET to those positions unless we've let them? Don't people oftentimes call that a good survival instinct...? It's a cultural training technique that "oft gang awry".
It exhibits in unique physical symptoms such as an unblinking stare

I thought rapid blinking was considered an unconscious "lie tell"...
they all have the compulsion to lie...

to themselves, mostly, since they are convinced that lying to others is an effective survival tool....
rderkis
not rated yet Oct 06, 2017
I am not a psychiatrist. But from 70 years of experience, I find about everything, about people comes in degrees. When you say psychopath what degree of mental disability are you talking about? 100% are only 90%? Mother teresa and quite a few others could feel empathy the same way a person with perfect pitch can hear.
And what % of empathy do each of you have?
Whydening Gyre
4 / 5 (2) Oct 06, 2017
I am not a psychiatrist. But from 70 years of experience, I find about everything, about people comes in degrees. When you say psychopath what degree of mental disability are you talking about? 100% are only 90%? Mother teresa and quite a few others could feel empathy the same way a person with perfect pitch can hear.
And what % of empathy do each of you have?

Psychopath, by definition, implies chronic. Is it always there? does it appear every so often?
As to empathy %, I have no idea. That's a subjective opinion, anyway.
All I know is, I approach ever relational interaction with the consideration of how it will affect the other party. Make of that what you will...
rderkis
not rated yet Oct 07, 2017
Psychopath, by definition, implies chronic. That's a subjective opinion, anyway.


One definition of chronic. = occurring again and again for a long time
That means that being a psychopath comes and goes. I don't agree with that unless there is some form of contributing physical illness. But I do believe there are degrees of that mental illness.
And of course it is subject as almost all thing about people are.

Da Schneib
4 / 5 (4) Oct 07, 2017
To answer the question in the title of this article, no, apparently not. Given the evidence in the article, and it's pretty compelling, by race white men are slightly less likely to commit mass murder by fraction of the population than three other racial groups; Hispanic men seem the only significant outlier, and they are *less* likely to be mass murderers as well. Maybe we should figure out what makes Hispanic men less likely to decide to shoot a bunch of people they never met and emulate it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (5) Oct 07, 2017
They gain an ability because; isn't that what predators are TRAINED to do...? By whom or what, do you think?
Psychopaths train themselves over the course of a lifetime of victimizing and gauging results.
Psychopath, by definition, implies chronic
So does autism. They may be related.
I approach ever relational interaction with the consideration of how it will affect the other party
"Psychopaths view any social exchange as a "feeding opportunity," a contest or a test of wills in which there can be only one winner. Their motives are to manipulate and take, ruthlessly and without remorse. [Hare]"

- You think I'm making this all up? You think these are only opinions??

READ the article.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Oct 07, 2017
Mother teresa and quite a few others could feel empathy the same way a person with perfect pitch can hear
"Oh, indeed, they can imitate feelings, but the only real feelings they seem to have - the thing that drives them and causes them to act out different dramas for effect - is a sort of "predatorial hunger" for what they want. That is to say, they "feel" need/want as love, and not having their needs/wants met is described as "not being loved" by them. What is more, this "need/want" perspective posits that only the "hunger" of the psychopath is valid, and anything and everything "out there," outside of the psychopath, is not real except insofar as it has the capability of being assimilated to the psychopath as a sort of "food." "Can it be used or can it provide something?" is the only issue about which the psychopath seems to be concerned. All else - all activity - is subsumed to this drive.

"In short, the psychopath... is a predator."
Cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (6) Oct 07, 2017
"Many Psychopaths "make their living" by using charm, deceit, and manipulation to gain the confidence of their victims. Many of them can be found in white collar professions where they are aided in their evil by the fact that most people expect certain classes of people to be trustworthy because of their social or professional credentials. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, politicians, psychiatrists and psychologists..."

- and of course the clergy.

Mother teresa didnt love the poor, she loved poverty.
Cont>
gculpex
5 / 5 (3) Oct 07, 2017
"Psychopaths view any social exchange as a "feeding opportunity," a contest or a test of wills in which there can be only one winner. Their motives are to manipulate and take, ruthlessly and without remorse. [Hare]"

- You think I'm making this all up? You think these are only opinions??

READ the article.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. They tend to lie more, cheat more and get upset more. One guy I met got so furious over losing a game of Risk(one on one) that he pounded the table to sent the pieces flying everywhere. He was smart and looking to control everything around him. Never liked him after that.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (6) Oct 07, 2017
"Her order, the "missionaries of charity" did more to inflict suffering, pain and poverty on people needlessly, than the actual causes of that suffering and pain and poverty itself... Primitive equipment was used to treat wounds. No pain killers were used at all. Unsterilised needles equipment was used. People died far sooner than they would have had Mother Theresa actually bothered to recommend actual medical treatment for the poor..."

"Her use of fairy tales to promote suffering and pain should be viewed with the contempt it deserves. She believed suffering was good, abortion was wrong, and birth control was evil. In a country like India, villifying birth control is reckless at best. According to a freelance writer, Judith Hayes, Mother Theresa once told a cancer patient in her care that she did not need pain killers, because:

"You are suffering like Christ on the cross, So Jesus must be kissing you."

-I would say a distinct lack of empathy.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (3) Oct 07, 2017
Yeah, i'm with you on this one. THey tend to lie more, cheat more and get up set more. One guy I met got so furious over losing a game of Risk that he pounded the table to sent the pieces flying everywhere
Some make the distinction between sociopath and psychopath. Sociopaths supposedly tend to succumb to fits of rage while psychopaths are cool as cucumbers.

I think the sociopath moniker is just a little less unpalatable - for them, not us.
gculpex
not rated yet Oct 07, 2017
Yeah, i'm with you on this one. THey tend to lie more, cheat more and get up set more. One guy I met got so furious over losing a game of Risk that he pounded the table to sent the pieces flying everywhere
Some make the distinction between sociopath and psychopath. Sociopaths supposedly tend to succumb to fits of rage while psychopaths are cool as cucumbers.

I think the sociopath moniker is just a little less unpalatable - for them, not us.

I have met both. Don't like them at all.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 07, 2017
"America has silently accepted the rage of white men"

I don't think that necessarily follows. White people tend to hold more wealth (as such have the means to buy useless trinkets like guns).

And while one may give gunowners the benefit of the doubt that they are all:
- perfectly sane
- perfectly honorable citizens
- the epitome of a good person and whatnot

The fact remains that not even they are immune from occasionally contracting a mental disease that changes ones personality (alzheimers, dmenentia, ... ) . Some of these diseases cause aggressive behavior. If this is coupled with a close proximity to guns (no matter that they were purchase while the person was a living saint) then that's a problem.

The thing is: Other races (or countries) don't have less crazy people. Those crazies just have less tools to spread their crazyness around.

So while gun control does not reduce the crazyness count it redices the fallout for the rest of the population.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (6) Oct 07, 2017
So while gun control does not reduce the crazyness count it redices the fallout for the rest of the population
Psychopaths are notoriously resourceful.

"On the evening of 14 July 2016, a 19 tonne cargo truck was deliberately driven into crowds of people celebrating Bastille Day on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice, France, resulting in the deaths of 86 people and the injury of 458 others."

- And often the only way to stop them, is with a gun.

"A concealed carry holder is being heralded as a hero by Arlington police for preventing mass murder by killing an "incoherent" gunman at a sports bar Wednesday evening... Authorities later found two loaded guns and two knives on Jones, Cook said Thursday... Cook said the customer, who was dining with his wife, "prevented further loss of life.""

-Euros would of course not know how often guns are used to prevent crime.

How could they?

Here in the US we read about them all the time, in local news outlets.
KBK
1 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
"America has silently accepted the rage of white men"

~~~~~~....
So while gun control does not reduce the crazyness count it reduces the fallout for the rest of the population.


This is true, but it does not address the issue of governments that have managed to get the population to give up their 'weapons', and said government has shown it is an oligarchy and has engaged in slaughter and/or degradation of their citizens. The historical record shows this is the way it always goes.

False flags and opportunism of such nature are common emergences from oligarchy that desires more control over their population.

The dominos of logic fall and expose necessity for the the citizenry to posess weaponry, in an attempt to avoid centralized/organized parasitical oligarchy.

Thus it's specific wording in the US Declaration of Independence.

The price is a messy world where human freedom can find space. Otherwise, it is a downturn into a Brave New World.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Oct 07, 2017
The Las Vegas shooting was a tragedy! Boy,am I glad he had access to and chose a gun which only kills one person at a time instead of a bomb that could have killed hundreds. Or even a semi truck that if rigged up properly could have killed hundreds to.
KBK
3 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
The article itself is a form of oligarchical societal and cultural baiting..with a desire for a hidden outcome which is different than the face of the forced meme.

As Eisenhower said, when approached.. after the JFK assassination: 'The American public will not be stampeded."

Race baiting? Division creating? Goebellian/Orwellian 'repeat the message' until the meme is established as a reality?

Which is probably the more important thing to recognize.

You are being gamed, prepped for a push into a forced outcome.

Like the patriot act, which was a giant tomb of complex legislation that was pulled out of a drawer and slammed into reality and law in mere days after 9/11.

Congrats on that one. You got stampeded. You got owned.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Oct 07, 2017
Yep, they are all conspiracies by people 10 times smarter than any of us, except of course you KBK, that can see right through the conspiracies.
It has always amazed me how conspiracy theorists figure they are so much smarter than everyone else.
BTW there are no GOOD conspiracies, because no one is even twice as smart as the average person, let alone a group of people formulating a conspiracy.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
point of clarification
They gain an ability because; isn't that what predators are TRAINED to do...?
@Whyde
no

it's not about training; it's about instinct and lack of empathy for the prey
- the instinct for killing or violence must be inherent in the animal in order to function

in predators, be it humans or otherwise, killing is a necessity for survival. generally speaking, most may not have used it lately -very recent in evolutionary time measurement- but it's still there as a species

as in other predators, training can teach how to kill more effectively, but it can't turn a cow into a predatory carnivore
https://scholar.g...behavior

Captain Stumpy
3.5 / 5 (4) Oct 07, 2017
another point of clarification
-Euros would of course not know how often guns are used to prevent crime.

How could they?

Here in the US we read about them all the time, in local news outlets
actually, even in the US we don't have a clue just how effective the gun is at stopping crime as only a very small percentage (less than 10%) of the positive results of gun carry are even in the news!

this is also not measured by the DOJ or BJS (bureau of justice statistics) which is one reason the studies about crime or gun violence can't be trusted for a legitimate view of the problem

considering so many police officers and military (still today) retire without having to have fired their weapon in the line of duty you can conclude that just the presence of an armed person is enough to thwart most crime - but of course, that really isn't measured either
rrwillsj
2 / 5 (4) Oct 07, 2017
Two opinions from me.

Those who insist on proclaiming on the sanctity of their 2nd Amendment rights parse it to mean their personal arsenal is sacrosanct. However, most of them do not belong to an official State Militia. And would refuse to give up their sacred right to sit and vegetate in front of a television with a beer in their hand. In exchange for organized drills on weekends and summers commanded by State commissioned officers.

Secondly, I would question the conclusions of this research, on the grounds that they did not do a DNA study of the participants.

In my unscientific opinion, the addition of data from DNA would result in the a stronger case for concluding that White males are intrinsically more violent than other races.

Centuries of rape by White males upon women and children of African and American Indigenous have had a deleterious effect upon the descendants of the victims of a culture that glorifies and legitimizes rape of women and children of color.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
point of clarification
They gain an ability because; isn't that what predators are TRAINED to do...?
@Whyde
no
it's not about training; it's about instinct and lack of empathy for the prey

The majority of us train how to do it everyday of our lives in some fashion or another. Having empathy reduces focus.
- the instinct for killing or violence must be inherent in the animal in order to function

Exactly. And it is inherent in many of US.
as in other predators, training can teach how to kill more effectively, but it can't turn a cow into a predatory carnivore.

You never met the big bull on my Uncle's farm, then...
Anyway... Paddock was trained for this. Either by himself or someone else.
And I like what Otto said about a relation of autism and psychopathy...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
...
In my unscientific opinion, the addition of data from DNA would result in the a stronger case for concluding that White males are intrinsically more violent than other races.

Centuries of rape by White males upon women and children of African and American Indigenous have had a deleterious effect upon the descendants of the victims of a culture that glorifies and legitimizes rape of women and children of color.

The Moors were white guys?!?
Guess we'll need a new reason Sicilians are dark haired and darker complected then...
(Thanking Dennis Hopper in "True Romance" for that one...)
Kweden
1 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
This is definitely a racist article written by people with power and influence--even at the global level. A group of people who often look for faults in "white people". If those numbers were a housing project, they could say, "Oh! Look, this housing project has a disproportionate number of blacks to the general population."

But do they see that? No, because, they have an an agenda. Could it be the media is aiding world rulers to foment rebellion in other countries like the US. To stir up race hatred and resentment so that more minorities will take it out on the majority.

They are known for such divisive reporting, but that doesnot mean the issue of racism is not to be pointed out in society. I have suffered all the prejudices and discrimination that the minority groups claim (albeit I live in a state with no real majority).

But yes, white people are definitely bred to be crazy: It is called religios cleansing.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
You never met the big bull on my Uncle's farm, then...
Anyway... Paddock was trained for this. Either by himself or someone else
" very efficient machines, like a computer, they are able to execute very complex routines designed to elicit from others support for what they want. In this way, many psychopaths are able to reach very high positions in life."

"This leads us to what psychopaths DO have that is truly outstanding: an ability to give their undivided attention to something that interests them intensely. Some clinicians have compared this to the concentration with which a predator stalks his prey. This is useful if one is in an environment with few variables, but most real life situations require us to pay attention to a number of things at once. Psychopaths often pay so much attention to getting what they want that they fail to notice danger signals."

-From 'the mask of sanity'.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
what Otto said about a relation of autism and psychopathy...
"Study: 'Significant' statistical link between mass murder and autism, brain injury" -Washington [com]Post

-Lots of discussion after the autistic Adam lanza and Sandy hook horror.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Oct 07, 2017
This is true, but it does not address the issue of governments that have managed to get the population to give up their 'weapons', and said government has shown it is an oligarchy and has engaged in slaughter and/or degradation of their citizens.

Which countries would that be? Name one where the government has *actually taken the people's guns away*. The countries you speak of where citizens are degraded/slaughtered: those citizens didn't have guns to begin with.

And don't kid yourself: Even if someone were to call out US-wide revolt against an 'injust government' they wouldn't stand a chance against the army. Individuals would hole themselves up on their farms and be picked off one by one. 50 guns in their arsenal or not.

This whole "we need the guns to protect ourselves" is just a sham argument (or a delusional fantasy for those who believe it's true). People have a weapon. It's called democracy. It's used to vote people into power who don't turn dictator. Use it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Oct 07, 2017
This whole "we need the guns to protect ourselves" is just a sham argument (or a delusional fantasy for those who believe it's true). People have a weapon. It's called democracy. It's used to vote people into power who don't turn dictator. Use it
Blah?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Oct 07, 2017
Doppelposte
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2017
... revolt against an 'injust government' they wouldn't stand a chance against the army
1- that assumes the army is willing to fight against US citizens
2- DODD 3025.18 (fairly new directive) states federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances

that doesn't immediately mean utilising lethal force considering the Army's FM3-39.40 "Internment and Resettlment Operations" (see historical precedent) - a far more likely scenario

3- this doesn't include state militia (the state guard/reserves are under the authority of the state governor, not the federal gov't)

2Bcont'd
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2017
cont'd
they wouldn't stand a chance against the army
4- there are a sh*tload of veterans in the US who are experienced and capable even if injured or disabled in some way

never underestimate the abilities of a people who are historically proven to defend their beliefs with their lives - it's one reason we're still battling ISIS and others have been fighting over religion for millennia
People have a weapon. It's called democracy. It's used to vote people into power who don't turn dictator
like the example of the Germans circa 1933? a fine example of Democracy gone wrong...

and again, people should always use this power first - but unlike so many other places in the world, Americans have a constitutional right (and responsibility) to defend their freedom and democracy from tyranny with the 2nd amendment should things go south (you know, like in Germany circa 1930's)

TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2017
that assumes the army is willing to fight against US citizens
I don't know if you've ever listened to Alex Jones or not but he purportedly 'predicted' the Las Vegas massacre as part of a countrywide antifa uprising this month that would include mass assassinations of police, politicians, and yes, conservative talk show hosts.

He also says that large parts of the armed forces would be sympathetic and stand down.

But I think that assassination of this magnitude would garner a concerted military response.

Although it took freicorp to liberate Munich from the rotfront in 1919.

"The Bavarian Soviet Republic (German: Bayerische Räterepublik) was the short-lived unrecognised socialist state in Bavaria during the German Revolution of 1918–19."

-Things have gotten nasty before. One recalls gen MacArthur clearing central park in 1932.

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