Swedish student startup gets deal to build electric cars

March 15, 2017 by James Brooks
In this Monday, March 13, 2017 photo, a Uniti employee works on prototype steering controls, at the startup's temporary production facility in Lund, Sweden. A group of Swedish students that raised 1.2 million euros in crowdfunding for their startup to build electric cars has caught the attention of German industrial heavyweight Siemens. The two sides said Wednesday that they were starting a partnership that will see them create 50,000 lightweight city cars a year starting next year. (AP Photo/James Brooks)

A group of Swedish university students that raised 1.2 million euros ($1.3 million) in crowdfunding for their startup to build electric cars has caught the attention of German industrial heavyweight Siemens.

The two sides said Wednesday that they were starting a partnership that will see them create 50,000 lightweight city cars annually starting next year.

The twin-seat vehicles, called L7e, have 15kW engines with a maximum speed of 130 kilometers (81 miles) per hour. They weigh 400 kilograms (880 pounds) each and have a 150 kilometer (93 miles) range.

The cars are made from sustainable composite materials and will be unveiled in late 2017, with first deliveries scheduled for early 2019. The first high-end vehicle has a target price of 200,000 kronor ($22,285)—the price for an electric Smart Car in Sweden is at least 210,000 kronor ($23,400).

The vehicle's steering system resembles a Wii controller more than a traditional car's steering wheel.

Lewis Horne, the CEO of the startup, called Uniti Sweden, says the deal gives his company "the opportunity to not only develop a sustainable car, but also manufacture it in a sustainable way at a large scale."

Ola Janson of Siemens Industry Software said he was "really looking forward to having that partnership" between "Siemens as the very old, stable company, yet still innovative" and Uniti Sweden made up of "young people, innovative people, (who) don't have the legacy, don't have the limits like myself."

In this Monday, March 13, 2017 photo, a Uniti employee views a virtual reality creation of its car design in the startup's temporary production facility in Lund, Sweden. A group of Swedish students that raised 1.2 million euros in crowdfunding for their startup to build electric cars has caught the attention of German industrial heavyweight Siemens. The two sides said Wednesday that they were starting a partnership that will see them create 50,000 lightweight city cars a year starting next year. (AP Photo/James Brooks)

The student startup's ambitions come at a time of feverish activity within the auto and tech industries on building more ecological cars, more autonomous driving systems and even fully self-driving vehicles.

"There definitely are some famous success stories of automotive startups, but there are a lot more companies that are trying to break in right now, some that we think will succeed and some that won't," said Tim Stevens, editor of the website Roadshow, on the sidelines of the Geneva Motor Show this month. "Making a car is very, very difficult thing, and certifying that car worldwide is very difficult thing too."

The vehicle will be unveiled in the fall of 2017, with first deliveries scheduled for early 2019.

In this Monday, March 13, 2017 photo, a Uniti branded go kart sits in front a white board filled with engineering sketches in the startup's temporary production facility in Lund, Sweden. A group of Swedish students that raised 1.2 million euros in crowdfunding for their startup to build electric cars has caught the attention of German industrial heavyweight Siemens. The two sides said Wednesday that they were starting a partnership that will see them create 50,000 lightweight city cars a year starting next year. (AP Photo/James Brooks)

In this Monday, March 13, 2017 photo, a Uniti development vehicle sits in the startup's temporary production facility in Lund, Sweden. A group of Swedish students that raised 1.2 million euros in crowdfunding for their startup to build electric cars has caught the attention of German industrial heavyweight Siemens. The two sides said Wednesday that they were starting a partnership that will see them create 50,000 lightweight city cars a year starting next year. (AP Photo/James Brooks)

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gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 15, 2017
An interesting shake-out is coming, as the flurry of new startups fight for success, customers and solvency. The future seems to be clear, as R&D shifts to the commercialization of the new technologies.

But once again, he social costs of disruptive change could be high.
Eikka
not rated yet Mar 15, 2017
L7e is the EU classification for "heavy motorised quadricycle". The classification limits are 15 kW engine power and 450 kg maximum unladen mass.

You can find a bunch of these things on alibaba, ready to order from China. Electric and otherwise. They're basically fast golf carts, miniature delivery vans, microcars, or "moped cars".

They're competing in the same class as say, the Renault Twizy. That is to say, these things are already on the market, and have been for years. Consumer interest... not very high.

https://en.wikipe...lt_Twizy
Eikka
not rated yet Mar 15, 2017
The price point is also a bit mad. Moped cars go around $6 - 10k while $22,285 is the price of a proper car.

Seems to me to be another crowdfunding swindle, or an inexperienced startup trying to bite off more than they can chew. Going from prototypes to selling 50,000 units a year is a tall order when other companies have sold 50,000 such cars since 2012.
Dug
5 / 5 (1) Mar 15, 2017
Everyone underestimates the costs and difficulties in starting a serous car company. There are literally hundreds - maybe more than a thousand dead car company startups in the last 133 years since Thomas Parker built the first practical electric car in London - in 1884.
Eikka
not rated yet Mar 16, 2017
Thomas Parker built the first practical electric car in London - in 1884.


One thing I dislike when people go on about how electric cars were a thing a hundred years ago - they assume the social structure was the same. Not so. Cities, towns, villages, were built around the point that all the common people had for mobility were bicycles and their feet. The world was big - even on a horse you'd travel just 20-30 miles a day if you were kind to the animal. Visiting your family just an hour's travel away by today's standards probably took two days on horseback.

So back then if you had a battery operated horseless carriage that could do 30 miles on a full charge, that was good enough. Why, nobody needed to go any further.

It's difficult to overstate how much the gasoline engine revolutionized the world. The places and opportunities an individual could reach on their own grew by a factor of 10,000 and more.

Now the world is getting larger again.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2017
Everyone underestimates the costs and difficulties in starting a serous car company.

Siemens is familiar with the hassle associated with getting high tech to market. If they cooperate in a way where they can give the young 'uns support on that front they should do all right. Then they can just concentrate on making a good car.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2017
That's right, 30 miles a day was about right back then. But our new EVs can go over 200 miles today on a charge.

How many daily trips could be handled by that?
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2017
But our new EVs can go over 200 miles today on a charge.


More like 80 miles in reality.

And for twice the price of a regular car that goes 400 miles on a tank of gasoline. You can reach coast to coast in a couple days, whereas on an "affordable" EV it's barely to the next city in a day.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2017
Yeah, guys like you on the sidelines are jokes to us, too.

I told you my new car cost $17,400, and with the PV, the fuel is free, and so far there has been NO maintenance, except for rotating tires and re-filling windshield water.

And most of the need for automobiles in cities is for around town and commute travel, which are naturals for the EV, with very cheap fuel and regeneration, and one-pedal driving. We do not run out of miles available.

And they do not scare the horses like the ICE contraptions.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
and so far there has been NO maintenance, except for rotating tires and re-filling windshield water
that is not because there is no scheduled maintenance, it is because you refused to abide by your warranty agreement as noted here: https://phys.org/...90s.html

and that isn't even addressing the abject failure of a self-professed engineer who only rotates tires once a year...
and one-pedal driving
no, it's not, otherwise you would have no brakes or brake pedal, which your EV does have

you can say there is "mostly" one pedal driving in the same way that people with a standard transmission say they don't usually use their brakes, but you can't say your driving is only one-pedaled

facts are important when promoting a technology
And they do not scare the horses like the ICE contraptions
BULLSH*T
i've personally experienced it both on horseback and in an EV around horses
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2017
"i've personally experienced it both on horseback and in an EV around horses"
-------------------------------------------------
Well gosh, my experience is that ours has not scared a single horse, so it fits our needs perfectly.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Well gosh, my experience is that ours has not scared a single horse
maybe that is because you don't spend any time around horses to know if it does or not

i am pretty sure that there are no horses in your neighborhood as i've not seen where one could live and run, so exactly what "experience" would you be basing this upon? your current existence sans any horses?

that is like saying "based on your experience, your EV is watertight to 800 meters below sea level and can travel on the ocean floor"

it has no bearing on reality nor have you ever had your EV underwater

the point is that you made a claim that is false - and blatantly false
horses can be spooked by an EV, golf cart, dog or other stuff dependent upon the horse, it's environment and what it is regularly exposed to

you shouldn't make comments about stuff you have no means to validate... like living in the country, etc
rrrander
1 / 5 (1) Mar 17, 2017
Greenies are morons. $23K for an electric golf cart. They can pick-up their overpriced organic food using it.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) Mar 17, 2017
you can say there is "mostly" one pedal driving in the same way that people with a standard transmission say they don't usually use their brakes, but you can't say your driving is only one-pedaled


I find a pulse-and-glide technique to save more fuel with a manual transmission, than the advice to brake on the engine. That's because you can roll so much further on neutral without losing speed. It also puts less stress on the transmission.

The engine braking is usually too hard, so when you see that you have to stop at the end of the street, the car will slow down to a crawl by the middle and the idle control kicks in and starts pulling the car forwards. Instead, throw it in neutral, the engine drops to idle and you cover the same distance much faster without forcing everyone behind you to a crawl.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2017
Greenies are morons. $23K for an electric golf cart.

If you add on in the savings in fuel (and the savings in maintenance, as electrics are far more robust than ICEs) then you can save a bundle with replacing your car with an EV.

Seems the people who buy and ICE are the morons by your definition, eh?
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
Our $17,400 e-Golf is a real car. We pay no money for its fuel, because we have PV.

I'll be glad to have an off-the-line contest with rrander's car. Tell him to bring money.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2017
I find a pulse-and-glide technique to save more fuel with a manual transmission, than the advice to brake on the engine
@Eikka
not always practical in the mountains, especially downhill
:-)

gliding works on flat land, to be sure, but there isn't a whole lot of that around here... if i were in Florida, LA or on the plains (etc) i sure would glide before using the gears or brakes simply because it drops the RPM's to idle which is where gas savings happens
The engine braking is usually too hard, so when you see that you have to stop at the end of the street, the car will slow down to a crawl by the middle
i got's some mad skillz - LOL
but seriously... this is also kind of a rookie move. once you're used to the vehicle you will know how long it takes to stop

but like i said - for fuel consumption gliding in N works... on mostly flat land
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
In California it is against the law to drive/coast in Neutral, since you do not have full control of your car.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
In California it is against the law to drive/coast in Neutral, since you do not have full control of your car.
1- so what?

2- that means no one can shift their vehicle at all because every time you shift a standard it has to go through neutral and the clutch disengages the gears (which is like neutral, but without being in the selected gear slot)

2a - even shifting a CDL without the clutch puts the vehicle into neutral between gears

3- a sane engineer would be able to recognize that point - especially if they had a real MS with undergrad, or had ever driven a standard transmission vehicle

4- all CDL drivers who drive standard transmissions will do exactly the same thing i just mentioned above because fuel savings are important and control of the vehicle is paramount

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
The fact is, you cannot drive or coast in Neutral in California legally. If you doubt it, check it out first, Trumpy, instead of making a series of nonsense accusations.

Your silly attempts to refute a fact is evidence of your maladjustment.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
The fact is, you cannot drive or coast in Neutral in California legally
if there is one thing anyone on PO will have learned by now, it is not to take ANYTHING you post as valid without any references to prove your point

so taking that into consideration:

1- prove it

2- how do they enforce it?
every, and i mean EVERY, CDL driver with a standard transmission that drives through that state uses neutral regularly

so... links and references to the law
then links and references to the prosecution (that is public record, so feel free to link any cases where someone is prosecuted - thanks)

LMFAO
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
When shifting, one is not "driving in Neutral".

Grow up.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 17, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
When shifting, one is not "driving in Neutral".

Grow up.
when one is driving with the clutch in to save fuel, as Eikka and i are talking about (slowing in N), one is most definitely "driving in Neutral", you idiot illiterate liar

and like i said... all CDL drivers will do this regularly, whether they think about it or not

Grow up and learn how to drive
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2017
George is low-impact not because he has EV and PV but because he never could earn enough money to have much of an impact on anything. Hes carbon neutral because his wife pays for everything. Fair assumptions from what hes told us.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2017
If you add on in the savings in fuel (and the savings in maintenance, as electrics are far more robust than ICEs) then you can save a bundle with replacing your car with an EV.


The difference in price buys you a lifetime of fuel and maintenance.

Seriously. A $23k electric L7e microcar is about $13k more expensive than the regular versions, and even in euro-prices at €1.5 per liter that would buy you 8,125 liters of fuel. For the kind of small motorcycle engine that does 3 liters per 100 km that would be 270,000 km of driving. I'd be surprised if you ever got 150,000 km out of these things before they're ready for scrap.

With electrics you save about $50 a year from the oil changes. All the other mandatory inspections and maintenance schedules still apply.
Eikka
not rated yet Mar 18, 2017
In California it is against the law to drive/coast in Neutral, since you do not have full control of your car.


Not true.

California Motor Vehicle Code 21710 makes it illegal to travel downhill with your car or truck in neutral. Obviously because you start to pick up speed very quickly and have to use the brakes constantly, which then overheat and lose effect. There's no advantage for fuel economy going downhill on neutral.

There's no law against pulse and glide driving in general.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2017
Besides, the Motor Vehicle Code 21710 only applies on the highways. In the city you're free to coast all you want.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2017
As for the microcars - you can generally buy a 500cc diesel automatic with maybe 20,000km on the clock for €2-3000 and a really fancy one for €5000.

These things are properly cheap. They're also properly small, and very unsafe:
Euro NCAP has tested the Ligier IXO JS in front and side impact at 50km/h to get a picture of the safety level of this heavy quadricycle. The vehicle performed very poorly and showed serious risks of life threatening injuries.

https://www.youtu...gmEKu80I

You simply can't do much within the 450kg mass limit. They're tiny tin cans that have absolutely no business going on the highways, and barely in the cities either because you get crushed like a bug above 50 kph.

In many countries they're speed limited to 45 kph and sold to kids, because you can get a license for a L7e at 15 years old. As a consequence you get road plugs going 45 kph on a 60 kph zone and everybody hates these cars.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
While you are busy figuring why they do not work, or are not practical, EVs are taking over soon.

Keep on telling me how impossible it is for us to integrate PV and EV into household and transportation power, while we keep on saving money and time and bother.
Eikka
not rated yet Mar 18, 2017
Another point of the microcars is that they're largely exempt from the emissions regulations. An L7e microcar only has to adhere to Euro 4 emissions levels up to 2020.

The practical result is this: https://www.youtu...eXvF7huI

But hey, 78 MPG - this is what the regulators wanted. This is what you will be driving too if you can't afford to buy an electric vehicle.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
" This is what you will be driving too if you can't afford to buy an electric vehicle."
--------------------------------------
Our EV and PV system together cost us $30,000. That is for a car, and the system to make all the power it and the household uses.

We bought all the housepower and horsepower we need now, and decades to come.

Argue with that.
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
We bought all the housepower and horsepower we need now, and decades to come
not really
what is the total output of your house?
(evidence please, not some random number out of your idiot head which is unreliable)

plus, your current EV system, per your own claims, can't run your multi-ton A/Cunit that is located outside your house per the Google maps (which still doesn't show your PV's when i bring it up)

So, assuming you stopped using your A/C unit, your power system will only provide your house... not even your EV included

this is demonstrated by calculators you can find here: http://www.solar-...lculator

you really should read up from some real engineers on what your PV system can and can't do. here is a link to help you:
http://realgoods....r-panels
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
Argue with that.


There's nothing to argue with, because it's still a lie.

An E-golf has a MRSP of $36,000 - whatever you paid for it in your imagination has no bearing on what other people will have to pay, and $30k is still a lot of money to pay for basic mobility - most people can only afford second hand vehicles.

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
Apologize. I did not lie, and who are you to make such an accusation?

You are screaming out of frustration of being wrong again.

We bought a 2015 model just as the 2016 ones were coming out, and got it for $11k off. Another $10k in tax credits let us have it for $17,400. The two models were essentially the same, so we lost nothing.

The PV system cost 18k, with $5400 tax credit, coming to $12,600.

Yeah, you will bitch and whine about tax credits for renewables but not those for fossil fuels and the O'l Bidness.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
I did not lie
prove it

post a picture of the sales contract

otherwise we can assume, based upon your past demonstrations and the proven fact that you've been shown to chronically lie about a lot of other things, that you're lying about this
Eikka
3 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2017
Captain Stumpy:

According to your listing, a 3500W solar system kit costs $11,995.00 (plus labor), and in California that would get a capacity factor of 0.14 so that's a whopping $24.48 per true Watt system cost, plus labor.

Over 30 years of operation that would be 9.3 cents a kWh and for a car that consumes 380Wh per mile, that's 3.5 cents a mile. Meanwhile, gasoline costs $2.49 a gallon and a car that does 40 MPG therefore consumes 6.2 cents a mile, so you actually save 43% of the fuel cost by charging up on solar - or by net metering as is the case because you'd be charging up at night.

But actually, because of the net metering, the power company is paying extra transmission costs to the tune of 4-6 cents a kWh to shuttle the power back and forth, so it really saves nothing. Only, the owner of the PV system doesn't pay the full cost - the difference is subsidized by other utility customers.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
so it really saves nothing
@Eikka
yeah, i've tried showing that to the idiot gkam before but he has "experience" and worked the lake bed at edwards, so facts don't matter to him when he has experience.... LMFAO

worst part about this: i live on solar. i've used it exclusively for decades, and only recently tied to the grid... so i know a whole lot more about it's limitations and the realities of using it than gkam does

just his house size alone means he would need a minimum of 50 100W panels with a battery system just to run the house alone, considering only just the typical suburban CA lifestyle and house products

...not even considering any ceiling or other fans, deep freeze, EV or any other additional products that suck energy!
Eikka
5 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2017
Apologize. I did not lie, and who are you to make such an accusation?


No.

And who would I have to be? You're the one telling porkies and refusing to back them up in any way or form.

We bought a 2015 model just as the 2016 ones were coming out, and got it for $11k off. Another $10k in tax credits let us have it for $17,400. The two models were essentially the same, so we lost nothing.


http://www.carsdi...-hybrids
In 2015 the maximum rebate you'd have gotten in California for an electric car was $4,000
https://cleanvehi....org/eng
Even today the maximum rebate would be $7,000

Please stop lying.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
As far as other people are concerned, the tax rebate in California for a 2016 model e-golf is just $2,500 according to the CVRP

There is a federal credit for up to $7,500 but that only applies if you owe that much federal income tax - which a pensioner wouldn't.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
Your figures are from Trump.

Our EV replaced a Camry with 20 mpg. Our gas now is $2.80 in the cheap places.

You already know the specifics of my system and car, so why try to invent other numbers?

The utility does not pay T&D costs because it is a line item on my bill. And we only use it at night, and during the day my power goes to my neighbors, and probably does not even leave secondary of the transformer serving us all.

My power saves the utility from using power from peaking plants for most of the period. I Provide them 41 cent power and trade it for 12 cent power.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
Oh, my, Eikka, give up. The tax credits (not rebates), were $7500 from the feds and $2500 from the state.

Your emotions have taken over, leaving you susceptible to this irrational behavior.

By calling me a liar, you are only revealing your own character.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Your figures are from Trump.
mine aren't, and they're the same as Eikka's
mine come from RealGoods, an actual CA company that i used to set up my solar system

so that makes you what?

not only a blatant liar, but also trying to distract away from the facts?

why aren't you able to provide actual evidence to support your claims against Eikka (or anyone else, for that matter)?

is it because you are the only one sniping and lying?

and that isn't just an accusation either, mind you... i've proven you lied. quite a few times.

so what does that say about your own character?

per your own request to clean up the site...
Eikka
5 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2017
Oh, my, Eikka, give up. The tax credits (not rebates), were $7500 from the feds and $2500 from the state.


The federal tax credit applies on federal income tax only to the extent that you owe them any. It's non-transferrable, one time only. You'd have to be making $50k+ a year to get the full rebate, but I thought you were retired now, so for what income did you claim the tax credits? Hmm?

Our EV replaced a Camry with 20 mpg.


That's completely irrelevant, because the question is about anyone looking to purchase their next vehicle. Of course they wouldn't buy a 20 MPG camry if they were looking to save on fuel.

The utility does not pay T&D costs because it is a line item on my bill.


That's nonsense. How they choose to bill you has nothing to do with what it costs for them to transmit electricity.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
We used the tax credits when we took money out of a 401k.

And the replacement of a 20 mpg car for one which uses our own "fuel" is a good investment.

"How they choose to bill you has nothing to do with what it costs for them to transmit electricity."

You said the utility had to pay for my use of T&D (transmission and distribution). I informed you I pay for that and it is a separate line item, spelling that out.

You are SO nasty. Why?
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
during the day my power goes to my neighbors, and probably does not even leave secondary of the transformer serving us all.


Again, again, again, that's not how electricity even works.

My power saves the utility from using power from peaking plants for most of the period. I Provide them 41 cent power and trade it for 12 cent power.


No you don't. We've been over this a million times: your power is not worth 41 cents to the utility because when you are producing, everybody else with PV are producing, and that drops the price to near zero, and shifts the actual peak to the evening when you are drawing the power back from the grid.

So the opposite is true - you're serving them electricity worth ~12 cents, and getting back electricity worth 41 cents.

I informed you I pay for that and it is a separate line item, spelling that out.


No you don't, because it's counted by your net consumption, so it gets cancelled out.
Eikka
5 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2017
And the replacement of a 20 mpg car for one which uses our own "fuel" is a good investment.


Except it doesn't use your own fuel, because you aren't charging it from the solar panels. You're charging it from the grid, which gets it mainly from fossil fuels.

If would have made more sense to replace it with a regular VW golf, or equivalent economy car.

That is, if the car actually existed. As far as I know the DMV still doesn't recognize that you own an e-golf.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
No, Eikka, we are a drop in the bucket of the local grid. We really do provide them with peak power mostly and use off-peak power. And the costs are what I said they are.

The power I produce goes to my neighbors, for which PG&E bills them 41 cents/kWh. I use power costing 12 cents./kWh, which I trade unit-for-unit for the higher-priced stuff. Everybody wins, me, the utililty, the neighbors, society, everybody but you, Eikka. You live in No-ville, where nothing can work.

You are turning yourself inside out trying to recover from an error.

"As far as I know the DMV still doesn't recognize that you own an e-golf."

Yes, . . as far as you know. Why don't you check it out?
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
we are a drop in the bucket of the local grid.
and if all your yuppie idiot friends also believe this, therein lies the problem with your "green" choice and spreading of constant lies about PV's and your EV and how your PG&E works, despite it's clear, concise statement that directly contradicts you
http://www.pge.co...S_EV.pdf

You are turning yourself inside out trying to recover from an error and more blatant lies don't help
Yes, . . as far as you know. Why don't you check it out?
Ira already did and found nothing - even under your wife's name

so considering you're past exhibitionism and desire for clarity, to which you specifically sent your personal information to be shown all over the internet, why don't you provide proof of your EV in the form of sales contract, tags, registration and or some other valid paperwork that can be proven real or not?

after all, you're the "real" one, right?
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
Get over your fixation on me.

Outgrow it.

Or get help.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Get over your fixation on me.
so, actually wanting you to tell the truth is a fixation on you?
How does that work?

I mean, i've proven you blatantly lied... in the above thread alone! so how is that fixating on you considering i've also done the same to benji, cd (and the rest of the eu nutters), rc, jvk (who also claimed to be highly educated and a diagnostician, no different than your own claims) and many others

what makes you think it's all about you?
it aint
It's about lies... you just happen to tell a whole lot of whoppers

so simply stop lying! Outgrow it.

Or get help.

...

now - WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?

you want proof from others...

now you prove your statements above

Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
Get over your fixation on me.


You're the one who keeps foisting yourself on all of us. You're the one who keeps popping up making lies under every article.

Besides, even if you weren't lying, you're pulling a big fat red herring: You're saying that EVs are a good investment, that they're no more expensive than regular cars because you can get other people to pay $10k for you.

Well answer this, when a million people get $10k tax rebate/credits each, from where does the government raise another $10 billion in taxes to pay for that?

Could that be from your own future taxes?

These subsidies simply mean that your neighbors pay your car, and you pay your neighbor's car. The state is not a charity.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
Little georgie kamburoff is here to get back at all the bullies who picked on him and all the supervisors who fired him. Physorg is paradise for incompetent psychopaths.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2017
Eikka: Who are you? Anybody can scream "LIAR!". "otto" proved that.

I gave you the details, and you tried every way you could to find some kind of fault with them, since you invested so much of your alleged credibility in it. But you lost, . . again.

I am real, and you are just another anonymous sniper who resents being caught in gross and continual error.

Send me an email address, and I'll send pics of my car and PV/inverter system.

Then, you can admit who you are, and take responsibility for your words.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
The power I produce goes to my neighbors, for which PG&E bills them 41 cents/kWh.


More lies. The PG&E peak rating doesn't start until 2.00 PM and 3.00 PM on weekends.

http://d2r42o2f7h...eaks.jpg

Your PV system produces 2/3 of its output energy between 8 AM - 3 PM which is OFF PEAK.

Send me an email address, and I'll send pics of my car and PV/inverter system.


I will not subject my personal details to your abuse.

You've made your claims public, so you prove them in public. You owe that to everyobody who you've lied to.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
Send me an email address, and I'll send pics of my car and PV/inverter system.

Then, you can admit who you are, and take responsibility for your words
-Come on gutless you have a website. Post them there so that everyone, including your relatives and friend(s) can see. Take responsibility for your bullshit.

Or are you AFRAID?

Oh dont forget to post your registration so we know you didnt go rent one or trick your neighbor into parking his in your driveway.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
Hmmmm, your reference shows PV still operating long into the A/C peak.

I do not have air conditioning, but use shading and insulation and daily temperature differences to keep the house comfortable. Taking advantage of the winds, we use the windows put there for such a use, and cool off the house at night. It gets cool here at night even in Summer.

Deciduous trees on the South side of the house give me shade and fruit in the Summer and sun in the Winter. We have a secondary supply of raw untreated water from the Contra Costa Canal for the foliage. We live simply.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2017
Hmmm gutless refuses to address the challenge. Another trick of the serial liar.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
Come on, Eikka, send me an email address. Then, you can send me your name after I send the pictures and you confirm and prove them on Google Earth.

You are in danger of letting yourself get swept away with emotions, and winding up like Rumpy or even worse, . . otto.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam

you still can't actually argue with facts

it all has to be about you

here is the problem: Eikka (and I) have presented data from your own PG&E
and presented data from your own VW corporation
that isn't a matter of debate - it's proven in the links and references

so people don't have to challenge that data as accurate because anyone can look it up and see for themselves that it's accurate

but you are making claims counter to the data presented by PG&E, VW, the federal gov't, & IRS, and more...

why should we believe you over the published data?

you've already demonstrated how you deliberately misrepresent your own history (an MS with no undergrad degree)

so why should we consider anything you present as factual now?

you can't present valid data without special personal contact - which no one wants from you considering you've already threatened to litigate everyone

per your own request then...
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2017
"but you are making claims counter to the data presented by PG&E, VW, the federal gov't, & IRS,"
-------------------------------------

No, Trumpy, I am not. This is all part of your unhealthy fixation on me.

Outgrow it.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
No, Trumpy, I am not
yes, you idiot illiterate trolling POS sniper, you are

it's not like no one will ever open the PG&E link above and see that everything you've stated in this thread (and all over PO) is your delusional belief regarding your contract with PG&E

it's like this: i provided a link to your own power company that makes a statement contrary to your BS posts

you are simply saying "that's not true. everyone is picking on me"

if anyone is reading, they're far more likely to believe the PG&E link than some has been crackpot idiot poster who claims to have an engineering degree but can't comprehend his own contract or how EV's, PV and ties to the grid work

it is especially telling that you make the claims but still refuse to prove your claims with evidence

it is because you cannot
period
full stop

otherwise you would be linking evidence and showing us your "proof"

IOW - simply more lies from you

per your own request
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2017
Come on, Eikka, send me an email address. Then, you can send me your name after I send the pictures and you confirm and prove them on Google Earth
-Come on gutless you have a website. Post them there so that everyone, including your relatives and friend(s) can see. Take responsibility for your bullshit.

Or are you AFRAID?

Dont forget your registration. Youve already freely shared your SSN so you shouldnt be AFRAID to share this as well.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2017
The Swedish kids may not really get to have a car company, but you can bet they will be snapped up by those who will. The seed is planted, the seedlings are rising, and it is too late to stop it. Electric transportation will only grow not fade.

When Google puts up another view of the house, I will tell you and you can all go look. Do not forget to go to the street view, and check the house number, so you do not make the mistake of Ira or otto or Rumpy, who looked at the wrong house.

In one year one of you will probably have an EV. Think of those of us who helped put them here.
RealityCheck
2.3 / 5 (3) Mar 20, 2017
Hi Eikka. :)

Why keep harping on 'old' situation? Evolving situation is increasingly better and better for energy suppliers/retailers TOO!...as local/wider grid/control system is updated/integrated better and better.

If it wasn't for US conservatives (and our OZ conservatives who have been applying US Conservatives sabotage-and-delay etc 'playbook'), we would all probably have a great green energy system incorporating ALL FORMS of energy/power sources/generation available NOW.

In case you doubt it being better for grid-supplier systems, look at the 'meat' of this report:

http://www.abc.ne.../8342254

IF grid/system properly integrated/localized/managed, the energy retailers can make millions from cheap energy from local solar inputs...replacing dearer energy otherwise bought in from wider wholesale market (which reminds me of what gkam says is operating in his neighborhood).

See, Eikka? :)

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