National study finds news exposure linked to greater anger towards Muslims

March 31, 2017

New Zealanders—whether liberal or conservative—show both increased anger and reduced warmth towards Muslims if they are more avid news consumers, a new scientific study has found.

The study, which appears in the leading international science journal PLOS ONE, is based on responses from 16,584 New Zealanders from the New Zealand Attitudes and Values Study (NZAVS), a 20-year longitudinal study led by co-author Professor Chris G. Sibley of the University of Auckland, who leads the project he created in 2009.

Researchers have long suspected that the fuels Islamophobia, but these ideas had never been tested on a nation-wide scale.

"People tend to interpret the news in ways that fit with their pre-existing biases, seeking affirmation of their beliefs while discounting conflicting information," says University of Otago lecturer Dr John Shaver, the article's lead author. "New Zealand is a good test for speculation about media-induced Muslim because of its overall highly tolerant people. If anything, tolerant Kiwis might tend to reject intolerant stereotypes, reducing the effect of the media."

"However we find that the association of prejudice towards Muslims with more media exposure holds across the political spectrum, and is specific to Muslims," says Dr Shaver. "This indicates that it is widespread representations of Muslims in the news that is contributing to lower Muslim acceptance, rather than any partisan media bias. The media, regardless of politics, tend to publish violent stories because violence sells."

Professor Joseph Bulbulia of Victoria University of Wellington, also a co-author, notes, "Sadly, there may be real-world consequences for Muslims in this country, people who encounter prejudice across their daily routines, at the workplace, and in their children's schools." Despite the study's bleak message the authors remain optimistic: "Though un-making prejudice is difficult, we hope these results challenge the media to present fairer representations of Muslims."

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rderkis
2.5 / 5 (8) Mar 31, 2017
Surprise, surprise! If I see a particular category of people committing gruesome crimes on the news, I am likely to be more prone to hostility towards them, unless I am mentally challenged..
Osiris1
1 / 5 (5) Apr 01, 2017
"By their fruits ye shall know them.." -Mathew 7:16
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (6) Apr 01, 2017
"By their fruits ye shall know them.." -Mathew 7:16
""We apologize for all the wrongs the church committed. We apologize on behalf of all Christians for all forms of wrongs we committed. We regret that church members violated [their] oath of allegiance to God's commandments," said the statement by the Conference of Catholic Bishops, which was read out in parishes across the country.

"The statement acknowledged that church members planned, aided and carried out the genocide, in which more than 800,000 ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed by Hutu extremists."

-We only know about the fruits and vegetables we read in the news.

You all have blood to answer for and the public ought to know about it.

People need to know why you are all prone to bigotry and violence.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (4) Apr 01, 2017
This is the penalty for terrorism. The Irish found out about this, and decided to give it up after they wised up. It's a shame that people who aren't involved have to pay for the actions of a few radicals, but the fact is that the ones who are uninvolved are the only ones who can exert the pressure that will stop the radicals. It's not like the radicals are going to listen to non-Muslims.
Edenlegaia
3 / 5 (6) Apr 01, 2017
Ouch....
Though it's sad to see how much peaceful Muslims will suffer from generalization, it may not be fair, but still logic for people to be afraid of Muslims and the such given what's happening.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) Apr 01, 2017
Yeah, @Eden, it's not fair at all but that's how it works. And after all is said and done, terrorism isn't fair either.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Apr 01, 2017
but still logic for people to be afraid of Muslims and the such given what's happening
-The media has given you the impression that muslims are for some reason more violent than the rest. Its just not true.

"This weekend marks 20 years since the Srebrenica massacre – the killing of 7,000-8,000 Muslim men and boys... The worst atrocity to take place in Europe since World War II occurred during a brutal three-year war following the breakup of the former Yugoslavia. The war was fought largely along ethno-religious lines, among predominantly Orthodox Christian Serbs, Muslim Bosniaks and Catholic Croats."

-specifically, xians slaughtering, raping, and expelling muslims.

They can all be butchers under the same circumstances. Any religion you wish to name.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (6) Apr 01, 2017
This is the penalty for terrorism. The Irish found out about this, and decided to give it up after they wised up
They didnt 'decide' to give up violence, economic conditions improved to the point where there was enough for everybody.

But religion-driven overgrowth and economic decline are again giving people a reason to fight.

"The Troubles Are Back
By EAMONN MCCANN, author and activist, columnist for The Irish Times
OCTOBER 5, 2015"
koitsu
3 / 5 (4) Apr 01, 2017
"New Zealand is a good test for speculation about media-induced Muslim prejudice because of its overall highly tolerant people."

Oh, this makes me quite confident in anything this guy researches. Because we see that he is very objective regarding New Zealanders compared to other nationalities. *facepalm*

What was tolerant New Zealand's racial makeup again? I don't remember... Well, whatever. Just make sure to include some Maori in the study, yeah?
Eikka
5 / 5 (3) Apr 01, 2017
Angry people click more, and buy more papers.

Another similiar case was the 26 years of yellow press anti-EU propaganda in the UK, where most of the newspapers would publish a false shock story about the EU - curved bananas or banning pints & pounds etc. - on average once every 2 weeks.

Most of the people may ignore one big lie told once as obviously false, but when you repeat little bits of it in different forms every sunday, and continue that for decades, most people will start to suspect that it might be true because they can't debunk every thousand different variation of the lie.
rderkis
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 01, 2017
can't debunk every thousand different variation of the lie.


Why are you assuming any of the New Zealander news reports were lies?
Benni
2 / 5 (4) Apr 01, 2017
Ouch....
Though it's sad to see how much peaceful Muslims will suffer from generalization, it may not be fair, but still logic for people to be afraid of Muslims and the such given what's happening.
Da Schneibnot rated yet 9 hours ago

Yeah, @Eden, it's not fair at all but that's how it works. And after all is said and done, terrorism isn't fair either.


What you two don't get is that it's the complicity the Muslim community overtly engages in not to disgorge themselves of these religious zealots.

Another thing you overlook is that Muslims teach they are God's one true religion even as Catholics have taught the same thing for its entire history, and the two groups went to war over this very issue during the Crusades, fortunately nobody won & it's been a stalemate ever since.
MR166
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 01, 2017
There is only one final solution to this media problem. Only "Approved News" which has been certified as being acceptable by the Ministry of Truth of the New World Order should be allowed publication. Of course this is only a temporary solution until the chips can be implanted in every citizens brain
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Apr 02, 2017
certified as being acceptable by the Ministry of Truth
-Well this is the way it is already, yes? The Ministry of Liberal (Liberated, Liberace) only employs reporters who speak liberalism. And if they chance to lapse into a more coherent language they are blackballed.

The language includes very few words, most of which are undefinable, and so you have to repeat them over and over again. Which is ok because the source and the delivery for this kind of news carries far more weight than the content. You know, flashy lights, heavy bass, bow ties?

And their audience has a notoriously short attention span (1 hour tv shows were a hard sell) so repetition is an advantage.
chips can be implanted in every citizens brain
Lots of room in liberal skulls for all sorts of electronics and game controllers.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Apr 02, 2017
Chips have the added advantage of reducing the workload of our teachers. Less time needs to be spent on programming young minds and more time can be spent on sabbaticals.
Eikka
5 / 5 (2) Apr 02, 2017
Why are you assuming any of the New Zealander news reports were lies?


You can tell a lie by telling nothing but the truth, by selecting which bits of it you report, and what attitude you take on the facts.

E.g. whether a criminal is a victim of their circumstances, or whether they're a dangerous animal with no value to the society. Both are true to an extent.
Edenlegaia
5 / 5 (1) Apr 02, 2017
but still logic for people to be afraid of Muslims and the such given what's happening
-The media has given you the impression that muslims are for some reason more violent than the rest. Its just not true.


Impression? Bzzzzzt. Wrong. I experienced that, seeing a young muslim getting wrecked by his friends because he felt hungry during the ramadan and tried to....well, eat. I heard numerous times about this as "But Islam allows you to eat if you can't take it anymore and your health is at risk". Well, his T-Shirt was red from his own blood, but certainly not because of hunger.
Though he got a happy end. He was in a bad shape from the beating, but finally got to eat.
There might be more violent behavior from other religions. I only saw this one by myself.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 02, 2017
impression
"The case of 8-year-old Naama Margolese, who was born in Chicago, has upset some Israelis, and for good reason. She says she's afraid to walk to her all-girls school in Beit Shemesh, near Jerusalem, because of taunting from Ultra-Orthodox men. They spit on her, call her a whore, throw rocks, and shout at her."

-THEYRE ALL THE SAME
aksdad
3.4 / 5 (5) Apr 03, 2017
@TheGhostofOtto..., you aren't content with people just stereotyping muslims and generalizing their behavior based on the abhorrent actions of a very small segment of their population. You blame religion itself for the despicable behavior of a few. Extend that idea now to atheism, which is the state religion of communism. Roughly 150 million people were killed or starved by communist regimes in the last 100 years. By your reasoning atheism is significantly worse than religion. Unless maybe your logic is flawed. Which it is. Does it occur to you that a minority of all people people--both religious and atheist--do bad things, and that maybe their behavior isn't dictated (or even taught by) their religion or atheism, but is simply a reflection of their own perverse ideas?
aksdad
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 03, 2017
And, GhostofOtto..., the terrorism in Northern Ireland wasn't committed by "the Irish" it was done by the IRA and their cohorts; a small and radical segment of the population. They didn't give it up because economic conditions improved. They gave it up because they reached a compromise with the government, the Good Friday Agreement. Economic conditions improved AFTER political stability was achieved. The theory of poor economic conditions leading to terrorism has no scientific basis. There are numerous examples of countries struggling with widespread poverty that didn't lead to armed conflict or terrorism.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
Dad radical Muslims make the IRA look like choir boys. In fact it is not enough just to convert you have to be the correct sect. 10s of thousands of Muslims are killed every year by other Muslims. This is also a war for political power. It is an invasion of sorts sponsored by the One World Government types who want you to give up all individual freedoms in exchange for government controlled safety.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
You blame religion itself for the despicable behavior of a few
-I blame religions which all have books which encourage and demand bigotry and violence in service to their gods, making this behavior inevitable.

It always is. It always happens. And no, its not always just a few who engage in it. The surviving religions have survived because they were better at outgrowing and overrunning their less prolific, and now extinct, counterparts.

Buddhism started in india. The hindu murdered them and drove them all out. The partition resulted in the slaughter of perhaps 2M.

Same old story.
Extend that idea now to atheism, which is the state religion of communism
-Communism is a pseudoreligion replete with a chosen people, promised land, messiahs, and of course holy books containing words like spirit and soul and destiny.

Atheists have none of those things.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
When Bush 1 stated that this is the start of a new world order and Obama finished his term I new that the Middle East wars were started by the NWO in order to create chaos in the West so that people would cede their freedoms to the new government.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
Otto did you ever see the South Park episode where the 2 atheist groups go to war over who is practicing the " True " atheism? Boy did they nail the human condition.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
Otto did you ever see the South Park episode where the 2 atheist groups go to war over who is practicing the " True " atheism? Boy did they nail the human condition.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
Economic conditions improved AFTER political stability was achieved
-Of course you have it backwards. Instability happens when populations exceed the carrying capacity of their region, the def of overpopulation. There is no conflict when there is enough for everybody.
The theory of poor economic conditions leading to terrorism has no scientific basis
-Your proclamation has no scientific basis.

Religions force women to reproduce until it kills them. This causes overpopulation, which causes strife and misery, which religions then blame on heathens and infidels, which leads to violence and pogrom.

Its an equation. Equations are scientific.

Mother teresa loved to help the poor but discouraged contraception per church guidelines, thereby exacerbating their misery.

The church feeds on misery and want. Jesus preached to the poor yes?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 03, 2017
Otto did you ever see the South Park episode where the 2 atheist groups go to war over who is practicing the " True " atheism? Boy did they nail the human condition
-So name an instance where your cartoon reflected reality. And lets remember that communism is a religion ok? It abhors all competing religions just like any other.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Apr 03, 2017
If they would give equal time on the news to moderate muslims speaking out against terrorism the picture might change. But, alas, "if it bleeds it leads".

We should always remember that news do not show a picture of the average state of affairs but only the extreme (and most of all: rare) events.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) Apr 03, 2017
You blame religion itself for the despicable behavior of a few. Extend that idea now to atheism, which is the state religion of communism.


The state religion of communism is state and leader worship, not atheism.

The root of communism is in Hegel's philosophies, who developed all the ideas about how the individual should self-sacrifice for the collective, and Hegel believed that the point of history was the manifestation of the Christian God through mankind. To Hegel the state was God, and an individual's "supreme duty is to be a member of the state."

Marx kept the general theme of it, but dropped God, which by Lenin's contribution of "vanguard communism" elevated the few revolutionary intellectuals into the status of God, self-defined as rational and justified, and so evolved the habit of communist societies ending up in leader cults and dictatorships.

Atheism makes no comment about the destiny of mankind - or who you should serve - like that.
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 03, 2017
Atheism makes no comment about the destiny of mankind - or who you should serve - like that.


Atheism only makes the statement that they absolutely know, what is impossible to know.(No God) (Especially since we know less than 2% of everything there is to know/)
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 04, 2017
When I see pictures of the Muslim migrants in Europe I see mostly younger solder aged men. I see very few woman or children. The pictures look more like an invading army than a migration. The European governments appear to be trying to end all traces of indigenous cultures from their countries. Many times Sharia Law is in direct conflict with the existing laws but no one cares. This is not by accident and is the first step in a One World Government that YOU will have no voice in.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 04, 2017
First of all, communists were antireligionists.

"Marx's friend and fellow atheist, Engels, declared, "We want to sweep away everything that claims to be supernatural and superhuman, for the root of all untruth and lying is the pretension of the human and the natural to be superhuman and supernatural. For that reason we have once and for all declared war on religion and religious ideas and care little whether we are called atheists or anything else.""

-Believers like the term atheist because it refers to their god as something tangible that can be hated. But true antireligionists resent the notion that there is something there to hate at all.

Rather they hate the scam, the empty promises and especially the things people will do to get them.

They hate what religions cause people to do.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 04, 2017
The root of communism is in Hegel's philosophies, who developed all the ideas about how the individual should self-sacrifice for the collective
-This is tribalism. This form of group selection has been with us since before we were human and has become biologically innate, which is why social systems based on it like communism, fascism, and religion have so much power.
and Hegel believed that the point of history was the manifestation of the Christian God through mankind
-The xian god is half man. Godmen and prophets who are conduits for gods will are epitomes of tribal leaders.
MR166
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 04, 2017
The new manifesto is the total destruction of western society. From the ashes a new society will evolve where individual rights are almost non-existent and the rights of the state will be of paramount importance.
geokstr
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 05, 2017
You on the left who, for some bizarre reason, totally defend a warrior religion that literally loathes and detests everything you believe in and would behead you first, here is a heavily documented site for you to educate yourself on: http://www.therel...eace.com

On the left are their links to every Muslim terrorist attack on Gaia, hundreds of thousands since 9/11/01. That's an arbitrary cut-off, it's no different for earlier decades.

Here's their aggregations of worldwide polls and surveys of Muslims mostly conducted by Gallup, Pew, and other left-leaning orgs:
https://www.there...lls.aspx

The % of the "moderates" that support principles that are incompatible with liberal democracy and Western values, even in the US, are quite sobering: imposition of Shariah law, honor killings, support for terrorism, assimilation, women's/gay rights etc.

Unfortunately, the leftists won't even look because they're told what to believe.
geokstr
2 / 5 (4) Apr 05, 2017
First of all, communists were antireligionists.

...(blather omitted)...

They hate what religions cause people to do.


Yeah, it's apparently OK with Otto that the "antireligionists" starved, disappeared, executed and worked to death in slave labor camps 100 MILLION+++ of their own citizens, reducing the rest of their populations to abject poverty, except for a relatively small nomenklatura who lived well. At least they didn't have to worry about the wrath of the FSM, right?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
You on the left who, for some bizarre reason, totally defend a warrior religion
Theyre all warrior religions. Constantine received his vision on the eve of battle in the same way muhammud did.

What makes you think a solution to religious violence can be found by singling out any one of them? They all respond the same way to the same conditions.
Gaia
Gaia. How quaint.
Yeah, it's apparently OK with Otto that the "antireligionists" starved, disappeared, executed and worked to death in slave labor camps 100 MILLION+++ of their own citizens, reducing the rest of their populations to abject poverty
-And when have I ever said that the actions of religions and pseudoreligions were ok?

No difference between eurasian communism and catholicism during the dark ages in how people were treated.

The means and methods are identical. More evidence that the structure and purpose are the same yes? Both were martial law used to restrict growth, travel, and communication.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
except for a relatively small nomenklatura who lived well
Have you seen all the nice basilicas and bejewelled reliquary scattered throughout europe?
At least they didn't have to worry about the wrath of the FSM, right?
-or the grand inquisitor yes?
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
Otto at least the Catholics and other Christians have made some progress over the years and are now for the most part civilized. Stop looking at atrocities that are 100s of years old and concentrate on the present. Yea there are a few religious nuts still around today but for the most part Christians and Jews are very generous and even try to help those who are their sworn enemies.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
Look at the harm that liberal government policies have done to minorities since the 70s. The family unit has been destroyed, children have become wards of the state because single mothers are working and away from the home and drug gangs rule the inner cities. This is a Lord of The Flies generation. Politicians and educational systems love the new world order because it increases their control over the masses.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
Otto at least the Catholics and other Christians have made some progress over the years and are now for the most part civilized
This is only true in regions where they have been forced to comply with secular law.

The church has finally apologized for blaming the jews for the killing of their godman but please note that they didnt bother to take it out of their book. It remains to be resurrected whenever and wherever convenient.
Stop looking at atrocities that are 100s of years old
-I gave examples in this very same thread of present-day atrocities committed by xians, perhaps the most egregious of which was the slaughter of 800k rwandans in 1994.

Why is it that you believers are so immune to evidence even when it is thrown in your face? Are you really that selfish??

Here is hitchens mentioning only some of the many things tge church has to apologize for.
https://youtu.be/rAxgnd8mYr0
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Apr 05, 2017
You on the left who, for some bizarre reason, totally defend a warrior religion that literally loathes and detests everything you believe in and would behead you first

The vast, vast majority of muslims don't buy into that narrow interpretation.
And yes: the bible has about the same attitude towards 'unbelievers' - making it perfectly fine to kill and enslave them...but the vast, vast majority of christians don't lean that way, either. So there's no point in painting all of islam with a boraid brush just because a couple thousand extremists use it as a convenient cover story to live out their psychopathic fantasies.
Zzzzzzzz
5 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
certified as being acceptable by the Ministry of Truth
-Well this is the way it is already, yes? The Ministry of Liberal (Liberated, Liberace) only employs reporters who speak liberalism. And if they chance to lapse into a more coherent language they are blackballed.

The language includes very few words, most of which are undefinable, and so you have to repeat them over and over again. Which is ok because the source and the delivery for this kind of news carries far more weight than the content. You know, flashy lights, heavy bass, bow ties?

And their audience has a notoriously short attention span (1 hour tv shows were a hard sell) so repetition is an advantage.
chips can be implanted in every citizens brain
Lots of room in liberal skulls for all sorts of electronics and game controllers.

Otto, you've done so well on this article, with the exception this bit of fecal regurgitation.
Zzzzzzzz
5 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
You on the left who, for some bizarre reason, totally defend a warrior religion that literally loathes and detests everything you believe in and would behead you first

The vast, vast majority of muslims don't buy into that narrow interpretation.
And yes: the bible has about the same attitude towards 'unbelievers' - making it perfectly fine to kill and enslave them...but the vast, vast majority of christians don't lean that way, either. So there's no point in painting all of islam with a boraid brush just because a couple thousand extremists use it as a convenient cover story to live out their psychopathic fantasies.

Christianity had its reformation. That is the only difference. Religious belief systems are a result of delusion. Delusion is a symptom of psychosis. Unfortunately, the capacity for self delusion is of survival benefit to humans. Some have a greater level of psychosis than others. High levels of psychosis are not good.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
Christianity had its reformation.

It also had it's time where some christians thought fanaticism and putting people to the sword was a really cool idea (funnily about the same amount time after its inception as islam has it's period of sprouting fanatic sects right now. Maybe there's a 'natural evolution' of religions, where after a certain time it goes through the perfect combination of a feeling of certainty of not being able to convert everyone which leads to a splintering of power structures?)

Religious belief systems are a result of delusion.

They are a psychological quick fix. World is complicated? Here's the answer. Now get on with your lives. People crave 'easy' (bizarrely enough our brains are a specifically optimized to make stuff easy for us - so religion is a bit of a Catch-22).

High levels of psychosis are not good.

Yeah. When 'easy' clashes with 'real' and go for 'easy'. That's when the trouble starts.
MR166
1 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
"-I gave examples in this very same thread of present-day atrocities committed by xians, perhaps the most egregious of which was the slaughter of 800k rwandans in 1994."

https://en.wikipe...ivil_War

Nowhere in the Wiki article does it mention the religion of the warring parties.
rderkis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 05, 2017
Otto at least the Catholics and other Christians have made some progress over the years and are now for the most part civilized.


While I totally agree with you. Why do you non scientifically call it progress? I think that depends on who is evaluating it. Myself I call it evolving towards "God's true message". But I know that is no more scientific then what you said.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
Nowhere in the Wiki article does it mention the religion of the warring parties.
How about this?

"When the Roman Catholic missionaries came to Rwanda in the late 1880s, they contributed to the "Hamitic" theory of race origins, which taught that the Tutsi were a superior race. The Church has been considered to have played a significant role in fomenting racial divisions between Hutu and Tutsi, in part because they found more willing converts among the majority Hutu."

-And this?

"On November 20, 2016, the Catholic Church in Rwanda released a statement signed by nine bishops apologizing for the role of its members in the genocide of 1994."

Hitchens describes it in more detail in the link I provided.

Look in the right places for answers you dont like.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
While I totally agree with you
AS SOON AS the population pressure THYE THEMSELVES CAUSE begins to cause problems, they revert. They always have and they always will.

Why? Because they never change the books. The books describe the proper ways to worship their gods, which all entail exclusion, persecution, and violence.

Let the church take out the nasty parts rather than just choosing to ignore them for the moment, in select locations. Then they can claim real progress.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
Myself I call it evolving towards "God's true message"
You call this gods true message? (It is you know)

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." Deut 17:12 NLT

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." Lev20:13 NAB

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." 2 Chron 15:12-13 NAB

-Where is the message from god which says these no longer apply?

Why are they still in there?

If anything the church is straying from 'gods true message'. This heresy always needs correcting from time to time.
rderkis
1 / 5 (1) Apr 05, 2017
If anything the church is straying from 'gods true message'. This heresy always needs correcting from time to time.


Sure, like I think anything you say about religion has any significance at all. :-)
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2017
Aw dorkus i thought we was friends. I thought that hitchens at least would impress you.

And you failed to address my last post in an appropriately substantive manner.

Just cite chapter and verse where it says that any part of gods perfect and eternal word has an expiration date and i wont call you dorkus any more.

And dont repeat that crap about jesus making tge law obsolete because as he said, and i quote, 'I have come to fulfill the law not replace it" and "not one word of it will change until I return to make all the corpses walk."

Go on. Look it up.
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 06, 2017
Quote TheGhostofOtto1923
Aw dorkus i thought we was friends. I thought that hitchens at least would impress you.

Just cite chapter and verse where it says that any part of gods perfect and eternal word has an expiration date and i wont call you dorkus any more.


Three things.

First to the subject at hand. Christianity can not be debated with you because it's secrets are revealed to few and never completely. They have not been revealed to me. So if I listened to anything you say about Christianity it would be "The blind leading the blind".

Second. Why would I care in the slightest what you call me? I would have to value and respect your opinion in some way for your name calling to mean anything at all to me :-)

Third - I would not want a friend who calls ANYONE names for any reason or slanders ANYONE for any reason.

TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2017
because it's secrets are revealed to few and never completely
-So its some kind of magic. I get it.

Actually when you fall for all the promises of immortality, wishes granted, miracles just for you, retribution in the form of eternal fire for all the bastards who wronged you, forgiveness for all the bastards you have wronged, etc, you tend to interpret pretty much everything in the book subjectively. You know, to maintain the high.

The epiphany is a righteous drug. Like jesus says it is more important to you than your family, your friends, and even your life. Opioids cant compete.
I would not want a friend who calls ANYONE names for any reason or slanders ANYONE for any reason
Yeah. jesus might not like that.

He sees you when youre sleeping which would creep out anyone but believers.

Otto slanders no one. Otto exposes liars and cheats like the godman ought to do but doesnt. Liars and cheats are his greatest friends, especially those who lie to themselves.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 06, 2017
"Third - I would not want a friend who calls ANYONE names for any reason or slanders ANYONE for any reason."
------------------------------------

Shall I post the last several from you about me?
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 06, 2017
So its some kind of magic. I get it.

Yes, Christianity it is some kind of magic!
But very unfortunately for you, no you don't get it, and that makes me sad :-(. That is what I am trying to tell you, "You don't get it!"
And without God and Jesus you will never get it, ever, never.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2017
Yes, Christianity it is some kind of magic!
But very unfortunately for you, no you don't get it, and that makes me sad :-(. That is what I am trying to tell you, "You don't get it!"
And without God and Jesus you will never get it, ever, never
You godders all say this about all the gods and gurus you worship. They all get exactly the same feeling as you do. They are all just as sure as you that their beliefs are the only way to get into heaven and avoid hell.

So how do we choose? Seek out the most magnificent building with the most beautiful women in it? Pick the one within walking distance? Go where theres dancing?

Im only looking at this objectively. How come you arent?
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 06, 2017
Ok, I will try to explain it to you, but you won't understand.
This, as almost all things about religion is allegorical.
Have you ever listened to a song and felt deeply moved?
Have you ever looked at a painting and felt deeply moved?
Or perhaps watched a sunrise or sunset and felt so moved you could almost cry?
Most of us have felt these heart felt feelings for one thing or another., If they haven't it is their loss and it makes me feel sad for them.

One time in VietNam I saw three Rocks(Korean solders) literally rolling on the ground laughing watching a cockroach crawl up a wall. I felt like you do about Christians. They are just plain dumb. It was only days later I was objective enough to realize it was my loss. My sense of humor was not as highly developed as theirs.

Religion is when God touches your heart and you feel it deeply. If you have never felt this, it is your loss and I feel sorry for you.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2017
We would you assume all awe and wonder comes from fairy tales?

Why would you want to assume others do not have the depth of feeling you express?
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2017
Have you ever listened to a song and felt deeply moved?
Have you ever looked at a painting and felt deeply moved
I read a book about the rwandan genocide. In it they described a woman with a baby on her back, chasing a woman with a baby on her back, with a machete.

Thats the sort of religious experience that moves me.

The church planned, instigated and encouraged that holocaust from the pulpit. The vatican acknowledged it and apologized for it. But they never bothered to change their book.

Thats why i find little anecdotes about wonder and mystery from casual believers like yourself especially revolting.

I doubt you were ever in vietnam. You fucking spelled it wrong.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Apr 06, 2017
Nope. It was spelled correctly.

But I agree this person is of poor character.

And he hides behind his religion.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 06, 2017
I doubt you were ever in vietnam. You fucking spelled it wrong.
He also spelled "Rocks" wrong. It's RoK as in Republic of Korea.
rderkis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2017
Trust me, the correct spelling is not what a bunch of 18 year old kids(privates) in the jungle used.

But if you focus to hard on the spelling you lose the substance of the message. Besides google will soon make us all look like journalists. So it's pretty important.
rderkis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 06, 2017
You fucking spelled it wrong.


I don't mind you knit picking but since you are a obvious scholar of the english language, what does sexual intercourse have to do with spelling?
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2017
@rderkis
I saw three Rocks(Korean solders)
i hate to nitpick but...they're called ROK's
Republic Of Korea
(as Ira noted)
But if you focus to hard on the spelling you lose the substance of the message
but if you provide a flawed message due to a mislabel out of ignorance you also lose the substance of the message... the ROK deserve to be respected for their ability
Religion is when God touches your heart and you feel it deeply. If you have never felt this, it is your loss and I feel sorry for you
not necesarrily

this can also be explained using modern biological processes from neurons to chemical stimulation
so you can't make the assumption that a feeling is proof of any deity because of the evidence (like Synesthesia)

especially given that there are innumerable natural and artificial chemical methods to cause similar feedback that are literally described by some as being religious and euphoric
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2017
I guess I should have made it clearer. Just because you have never felt the holy ghost does not mean it's your fault in any way. So none of you need to be defensive about it.

All it means is that God has not chosen to touch you yet. Perhaps he never will. Or perhaps it will happen the day and hour of your death. But when it happens you will absolutely know it.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2017
I guess I should have made it clearer. Just because you have never felt the holy ghost does not mean it's your fault in any way. So none of you need to be defensive about it
@rderkis
perhaps you misunderstand: how do you differentiate between the holy ghost and an acid trip, or some similar euphoric disturbance due to chemical or other stimulation of your biology?
All it means is that God has not chosen to touch you yet
that would be unwise considering the temper of the Wakinyan and Wakan Tanka
But when it happens you will absolutely know it
and again - how can you tell it from other chemical or physical stimulation?

how do you know it's your god?

how do you know it aint:
Usen?
Wakan Tanka?
Baal? dyspepsia?
the flying spaghetti monster?
the knights of Ni?
or just plain gas?
rderkis
1 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2017
Wow, you guys are all so smart! It's hard to believe listening to your wealth of knowledge that we only know about 2% of the universe. I wonder how humanity can only know about 2% of the universe(es) yet you guys can understand 100% of it. And keep in mind that's only our universe and currently known dimensions, if there more are universes and dimensions that number probably shrinks to a infinitesimal amount. But I guess our scientist should be asking you guys about that. :-)

BTW If we could raise your already high IQs about 20%, my guess is you would all come to your senses.
Heck, if we could just get you up to this 70 year old mans level you would see thing differently. :-)
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2017
Religion is when God touches your heart and you feel it deeply.

Since all religious people would claim that - how do you know which god is the right one? I can promise you that the followers of Allah or Krishna or whatever feel as deeply touched as some followers of the christian god.

Of course the final argument is always: My feeling is right and everyone else is deluded - but in the end that is what every deluded person says.If you can't corroborate your feeling with fact then the reality is: you're just living in a delusional state.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2017
He also spelled "Rocks" wrong. It's RoK as in Republic of Korea
Yeah in rereading these posts i am reminded of another 'tard' who used to flood physorg with similar conservo/religio inanity under various 'socks'.
rderkis
1 / 5 (3) Apr 07, 2017
]Yeah in rereading these posts i am reminded of another 'tard' who used to flood physorg with similar inanity under various 'socks'.


:-) Your IQ we would have to double :-)

MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2017
We might have a new president but really nothing has changed. It looks like the exact same people are still in control. It is amazing how a chlorine gas attack, which pretty much anyone can pull off has morphed into a sarin gas attack that only Assad could have done. Note people, the first responders were NOT wearing any sort of protective clothing. Thus it most likely was not sarin. Good God, we are all puppets Democrats and Republicans alike. There is no real choice when you vote, just the illusion of choice.
MR166
1 / 5 (1) Apr 07, 2017
Well the military-industrial complex can breath a collective sigh of relief. It seems that Trump is a team player after all !!!!!!!!!!!!!
rderkis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2017
Note people, the first responders were NOT wearing any sort of protective clothing.


That's silly! Where would they get gas masks and protective clothing in a third world country, and just exactly who could afford it if it is available?

And if it is available and if they were trying to fool us why wouldn't they be wearing it? Do you feel you are that much smarter than they are that they would not think of that?

I am not saying you wrong it it being a fake but I am questioning your reasoning/
rderkis
1 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2017
Well the military-industrial complex can breath a collective sigh of relief. It seems that Trump is a team player after all !!!!!!!!!!!!!


I love our military-industrial complex! It has given my grand parents, myself and my kids a VERY GOOD life. :-)
Your bitching but if you are a American the same can probably be said for your family. And if your not a U.S. citizen then our military-industrial complex is responsible for your freedom and protection from powers that would take that freedom from you.
MR166
not rated yet Apr 07, 2017
I am NOT anti-military but I am against putting our solders in harms way in order to benefit the select few. Why did we go into Iraq, because Saddam had WMD and was killing of civilians. We all know how that worked out due to phony politics. Now we are doing the exact same thing all over again for the exact same reasons.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 07, 2017
The unrest and killings in the ME were purposely created to create a migration crisis in the West.

This is your One World Government in action!

MR166
5 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2017
If I had served in Iraq I would really feel that my country put absolutely no value on my life and on the lives of my fellow solders who were wounded and who had died. We also sacrificed the lives of the Iraqis who aided us. They were left hanging out to dry after the withdrawal.
If there is one thing more dangerous than being an enemy of the US it is being a friend.
gkam
Apr 08, 2017
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2017
If I had served in Iraq

And I served in Viet Nam and we were treated the same way. But I am intelligent enough to have seen how the other side treated their soldiers, alive and dead. Example - They LITERALLY threw their dead soldiers in any ditch or hole they could find and put some dirt on them, so they could not be counted by us as dead.

Wake up and quit feeling sorry for yourself. There is a reason for the saying "War Is Hell".
MR166
not rated yet Apr 08, 2017
Rderkis there is no doubt that the US needs a strong military to defend itself and perhaps at times defend it's interests in the rest of the world. But it seems to me that every conflict since WWII is becoming less and less in the interests of our country and more and more in the interests of some undisclosed power.
I ask you, what exactly are we accomplishing by destabilizing the ENTIRE Middle East???
Zzzzzzzz
5 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2017
"When God touches you and you feel it deeply". There is no better illustration that psychosis is involved here. The Son of Sam heard a voice in his head. The voice told him to kill. He killed. He is a psychoticket murderer.
Now let's tweak him just a little - the voice tells him to warn mankind of the impending invasion from the beings on one of Jupiter's moons. Sam loudly warns, daily. He is no longer a psychotic murderer - just a harmless streetcar nervous ranger.
Now let's tweak him one more insignificant tweak - Sam still hears the voice in his head, but this time it is God touching him deeply. The voice tells him to spread God's word. Now Sam is a Sunday morning preacher, and a fine upstanding citizen.
GUESS WHAT - HE'S STILL A PHARKEN PSYCHO
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 08, 2017
If I had served in Iraq I would really feel that my country put absolutely no value on my life
@Mr166
1- some surely do depending on which service in Iraq: But from what i've seen this is mostly confined to those who served after the 1st and 2nd Iraq war during the occupation

2- there will always be soldiers, airmen, marines, seamen and coasties that feel this way as part of their nature, beliefs or some similar wiring in the head
But it seems to me that every conflict since WWII is becoming less and less in the interests of our country and more and more in the interests of some undisclosed power
this, however, is flat out conspiracist ideation

surely you don't believe it?
what exactly are we accomplishing by destabilizing the ENTIRE Middle East?
easy access to cheap oil and training/experience for the troops while cleaning out the old weapons cache? [jk]

.

.

@Zzzz
great post - great points
if it can go one way, it can go the other
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2017
"easy access to cheap oil and training/experience for the troops while cleaning out the old weapons cache? [jk]"

Well oil is cheap but I don't see that we own any new fields in the ME. The last part of the statement is pure BS. Every day for the last 4 years or so we get that much closer to WWIII. What is the point of this gamble? We created and funded ISIS in an attempt to take out Assad. Where are our brains?

MR166
1 / 5 (3) Apr 08, 2017
I do not doubt that anti Assad rebels gassed their own people in the hopes that Trump would take out Assad. The fact that the media and the Democrats are not jumping all over Trump indicates that he is playing their game. It would not surprise me in the least if the CIA were somehow involved.
rderkis
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2017
So now your telling us that not only were the rebels not smart enough to wear gas masks in a fake film but our own CIA with some of the smartest people in the world were too dumb to have the actors wear gas masks?
How far will your conspiracy theories go before YOU consider them improbable?
Captain Stumpy
3 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2017
The last part of the statement is pure BS
@mr166
the last part?
LMFAO

the whole sentence was BS!
hence the "[jk]"
LOL
What is the point of this gamble? We created and funded ISIS in an attempt to take out Assad. Where are our brains?
the US has a habit of training and funding the enemies of our enemies...nothing new there
Well oil is cheap but I don't see that we own any new fields in the ME
besides being written in jest... it does not say ownership of oil fields, it says
easy access to cheap oil
again - politics

MR166
5 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2017
Oh well at least now I know what "[jk]" means.

My bad for missing the sarcasm.
MR166
not rated yet Apr 09, 2017
Now Trump is sending an aircraft carrier to North Korea. While I will admit that the cruse missile strike in Syria adds a lot of credibility to this deployment I do worry where these things are leading. We would be better off with economic sanctions. We could limit trade and or foreign aid with any country that does not cooperate.
MR166
1 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2017
Perhaps Trump is just establishing himself as president that should not be messed with. I could see him shooting down their missile tests on the basis that the flight path was too close to Japan.
rderkis
5 / 5 (1) Apr 11, 2017
I do not doubt that anti Assad rebels gassed their own people


Well since you have no doubt , it MUST be true!
Is that how fake news is spread? Do you love fake news?
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2017
http://www.zerohe...-assad-d

Here is an article that claims that Assad did not use sarin. He bombed a rebel supply depot.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2017
God bless the internet. 90% of the US media has zero percent respect for accurate news reporting or the whole truth and nothing but the truth! The only thing that matters to them is their political agenda.
rderkis
3 / 5 (2) Apr 13, 2017
I ask you, what exactly are we accomplishing by destabilizing the ENTIRE Middle East???


Perhaps for the same reason Russia would like to destabilize us. And every other nation wishes to destabilize their enemies or would be enemies. I think the romans called it "Divide and Conquer".

But under the current circumstances I don't think the U.S wishes to destabilize the middle east.
MR166
5 / 5 (1) Apr 13, 2017
"But under the current circumstances I don't think the U.S wishes to destabilize the middle east."

Well how can a nation depose multiple governments in one area without having any plan to install and protect the new leaders and expect anything but instability and chaos?

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