New approach for matching production and consumption of renewable electricity

March 6, 2017, VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland
New approach for matching production and consumption of renewable electricity promotes large-scale integration of solar and wind
Schematics of the ReSOC concept. It is the missing link between the power grid and the fuel or the chemical feedstock for the industry. Credit: Technical Research Centre of Finland (VTT)

VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland is coordinating the BALANCE project, which brings together leading European research institutes in the field of electrochemical conversion. The project aims to demonstrate a technology that enables flexible storage of large amount of renewable power. Such technologies are needed for the further integration of additional wind and solar power. The European Commission funds the project by 2.5 million euros.

As the investment costs of solar and wind installation are decreasing, the most significant obstacle for further integration of is the imbalance between their weather-dependant production and the general power consumption. It is this issue that the BALANCE project partners aim to solve by further developing an electrochemical conversion technology called ReSOC (Reversible Solid Oxide Cell).

A ReSOC device uses to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas by a high temperature electrolysis process, which is significantly more efficient than other electrolyser technologies today. What makes ReSOC particularly interesting, however, is the fact that the exactly same device can also be operated "in reverse" to produce power from the very same hydrogen gas it produced. Using the same device for converting power to a storable gas and for converting this gas back to power again enables very flexible usage of the device, thus increasing its operating hours as well as reducing it capital costs.

Today, the electricity market is already being challenged when flooded by green electricity on a windy or sunny day. This causes the electricity prices to plunge or even go negative in some European countries. Because electricity cannot be stored as such and our current capacity to store it with hydropower or batteries is limited, the production of windmills and solar panels must at times be curtailed to avoid power grid failure. This issue will become more and more important as the production capacity of renewable electricity is growing rapidly.

With a flexible energy conversion technology, such as a ReSOC, it is possible to balance the power market. At peak production hours, power is converted into a chemical, which can be stored for later use or used as industrial feedstock. Similarly, during peak consumption hours or on a calm, cloudy day, the stored chemical is converted back to electricity at the same site. Therefore, a ReSOC unit supports the integration of wind and with the current power system by providing a compact, affordable and flexible technology for the conversion and storage of .

Explore further: Hydro storage can secure 100 percent renewable electricity

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gkam
1 / 5 (7) Mar 08, 2017
The writer should know windmills grind grain, wind turbines and generators produce power.

But this and other techniques will doom Filthy Fuels.
SlartiBartfast
4.1 / 5 (9) Mar 08, 2017
The writer should know windmills grind grain, wind turbines and generators produce power.

But this and other techniques will doom Filthy Fuels.


Isn't there a dead horse somewhere you should be beating? Doesn't wanking all over the comment section feel.......unfulfilling?
gkam
1 / 5 (8) Mar 08, 2017
The horses which are dead are fossil and nuclear.

Outgrow your need for pollution and sloppy living. It is not only possible but profitable now to be clean.
SlartiBartfast
4.1 / 5 (9) Mar 08, 2017
The horses which are dead are fossil and nuclear.


What does that even mean?

Outgrow your need for pollution and sloppy living. It is not only possible but profitable now to be clean.


My need for pollution and sloppy living? What are you talking about? Don't try to construe my chastising of your behavior as anything other than chastising of your behavior. And the only sloppiness is your wank residue in the comment section.

Less snarkily, you make the same friggin' comment with the same empty rhetoric every single time. Everyone's tired of it. You have absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion. You just like to listen to yourself talk (or watch yourself type as the case may be).

Just stop already.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (8) Mar 08, 2017
Hey, Toots, get your little mind off wanking, and read the science.

I contribute to the discussion by showing the problems and advantages of power production sources. My experience is in this field, and my MS concentrates on energy and the environment.

If I hurt your feelings, feel free to put me on ignore. It won't hurt mine.
WillieWard
3 / 5 (4) Mar 08, 2017
Who but george kamburoff takes george kamburoff seriously?

Nobody here.

Nobody out there, which is why he spends all his time here (wasting ours).


SlartiBartfast
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 08, 2017
I contribute to the discussion by [...]


No, you don't. You just wank and leave a mess on the floor for everyone else to slip on.

My experience is in this field, and my MS concentrates on energy and the environment.


hahahahahaha. Was this the same MS that led you to believe that a BTU and a Watt are different types of units?
Uncle Ira
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 08, 2017
hahahahahaha. Was this the same MS that led you to believe that a BTU and a Watt are different types of units?


Sorry about the "1" on that one, it was a mistake. The comment deserves a "5".
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
" hahahahahaha. Was this the same MS that led you to believe that a BTU and a Watt are different types of units?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Had General Science did you? You should have taken one of my courses.

First, kWh and Btu are not units of the same thing. Yes, they can be equated if you look at heating value only, but that is not what we mostly use electricity for, is it?

Second, it is the electric and magnetic field effects which make electricity the most valuable and highest-quality of all the "fuels". Your phone and computer are not running on heat, they are running on electric and magnetic fields.

I tried to tell that to "Ira", but it went right past him, as he blabbered over his ham radio, using the other effects of electromagnetism. Or maybe it is wood-fired, somehow.
SlartiBartfast
4.4 / 5 (7) Mar 08, 2017
Had General Science did you? You should have taken one of my courses.


Can you offer any evidence that you've taught anything?

First, kWh and Btu are not units of the same thing. Yes, they can be equated if you look at heating value only, but that is not what we mostly use electricity for, is it?


Hook, line, and sinker! (For the record, I did mean Wh, not W, but either way, you're still wrong)

My point was that you claim to hold a master's degree in ...I dunno, something related, and yet you're still trying to claim something completely off-the-wall that's not supported by any reference you can provide, even when you're told that it's complete nonsense by everyone here -- people who are far more knowledgeable about the subject than you (or I).
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
"Can you offer any evidence that you've taught anything?"
---------------------------------------------
I retired as a consultant to power companies nationwide. I got the MS as I was being hired by PG&E, where I rose to Senior Engineer in Technical Services. It dealt primarily with energy and the environment, ecologically, economically, and technologically.

Look me up, I'm George Kamburoff.

Who are you?
Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (8) Mar 08, 2017
I'm George Kamburoff.


https://www.youtu...AlI2IIvI

Who are you?
I am Ira. I am the guy who knows that kWh and Btu are both ways of expressing the same thing, energy. Or sometimes work too.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
" I am the guy who knows that kWh and Btu are both ways of expressing the same thing, energy. "
----------------------------------

To a mechanical engineer like Ira, perhaps.

That is why mechanical engineers are rare in Silicon Valley.
----------------------------------------------
Bart, Power Quality is a fascinating business, since it can be complex, but requires some different way of thinking than they teach at school.

I did not have engineering in school. I taught it the way I understood it myself, and that seemed to reach folk who the other ways did not, which is why I helped write and was principal instructor for the EPRI national course in Power Quality starting in the late 1980s. I retired in 2006.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
Let's not fight, let's find ways to spread the good news and the technologies which can help all of us.

They are not just possible, not just practical, but are economically-beneficial directly now. Mine have a four+-year payback, and that kind of stuff will have huge changes in how we power ourselves.

I do not know how the utilities will resolve this, and the commissions which regulate them. We are off the edge of the map, and are finding our way.
SlartiBartfast
4 / 5 (8) Mar 08, 2017
Let's not fight, let's find ways to spread the good news and the technologies which can help all of us.

They are not just possible, not just practical, but are economically-beneficial directly now. Mine have a four+-year payback, and that kind of stuff will have huge changes in how we power ourselves.

I do not know how the utilities will resolve this, and the commissions which regulate them. We are off the edge of the map, and are finding our way.


wank wank wank wank wannnnnnnnnk.....awww
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
The horses which are dead are fossil and nuclear
not so long as we have a space program and require massive transports like ships, tugs, trains and such
Let's not fight, let's find ways to spread the good news and the technologies which can help all of us
this is actually a good idea

the problem is - to do it you will have to validate your claims with evidence so that you can establish you're not promoting false bullsh*t claims like charging your EV at night with your PV system, as you've done all over PO

that also means doing some basic research before you post so that you don't open your mouth and shove your foot in, like your claims about Mossad, the Pope, using PV systems (tied to the grid or not) and your blatantly false claims regarding nuclear energy

i suggested all that years ago - but you refused

now you're pissed when you get outed for lying

it's not rocket surgery
SlartiBartfast
4.4 / 5 (7) Mar 08, 2017
"Can you offer any evidence that you've taught anything?"
---------------------------------------------
I retired as a consultant to power companies nationwide. I got the MS as I was being hired by PG&E, where I rose to Senior Engineer in Technical Services. It dealt primarily with energy and the environment, ecologically, economically, and technologically.

Look me up, I'm George Kamburoff.


In other words, no.

Who are you?


I'm a guy with more letters after his name, and one who thinks you don't know what you're talking about.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Oh,good. More folk riled up and upset, trying to make rational decisions based on hate.

I wrote and taught courses for the power industry, and others. Let's see, . . check out me and 7 X 24 Exchange. Remember, I retired nine years ago.

But you won't. You'll burp out another low-class attack to deflect the issue.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
More folk riled up and upset, trying to make rational decisions based on hate
no, it is a person trying to validate your *claim*

it's your claim, therefore the burden of proof is upon you to provide references or supporting evidence

it's validation in action and it's one of the core tenets of the scientific method, something you should be familiar with as you claim an MS in a STEM field

more to the point: you're making arguments while only providing opinion, articles (which are authors opinions) and slogans from FUD

none of that is substantiated by any science, nor is it factually substantiated by any other means other than your repetition and biased articles

that means you're not arguing from science, you're arguing from a belief, emotion, pseudoscience and religion

that's low class

& why no one debates you and you're usually outed for being a liar

still no science - so per your request...
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
"you're not promoting false bullsh*t claims like charging your EV at night with your PV system, as you've done all over PO"
----------------------------------

Why don't you outgrow this Trumpish behavior? I told you I produce in the daytime and take it out at night. I trade my high-quality power for the lower cost stuff we use, but it is convenient to do so. I did not ever say the PV system worked at night. You continue to lie like that because all the right-wingers are doing it these days.

You also call me stolen valor while you have the truth of my service, but cannot prove yours. Trump uses that kind of projection trick, so you do too.

Please outgrow this vendetta. It is a pathetic fixation.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Why don't you outgrow this Trumpish behavior?
so asking you to validate your claims like any good STEM degree holder is now trumpish?

or are you pissed because we are asking for evidence of your claims?
I told you I produce in the daytime and take it out at night
and that means, by definition, that you have a grid set-up, you put into the grid by day (which by CA law means you're compensated for - read those links i sent you) and you take out from the grid at night

that is not your PV, that is the grid
it is part of the compensation requirements per CA law and agreement with your power company, per the references i provided to PG&E, as i originally stated, repeatedly, and you refused to accept
You also call me stolen valor while you have the truth of my service
1- https://en.wikipe..._of_2013

2- you claim a combat V & marksmanship - there is no record on your DD214 or 201 file
therefore it's stolen valor
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
You do not have my 201 file. And just like Trump, you are lying to confuse the issue. It is pretty transparent. You did not serve at all.

No, I am not compensated for putting power into the line. NO. Got that?

As an outsider, you are confused. I do not have that kind of contract, and you do not understand how it works. Post all the references you do not understand, but it proves nothing but your own ignorance.

Just another example of some kind of fixation on me.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam cont'd
going to be more specific about this
You also call me stolen valor while you have the truth of my service, but cannot prove yours
1- i proved my service. you can't have a military ID without a DD214
1a - ignoring evidence makes you the idiot, not i - and redacting the personal data makes me smart

2- per Pub.L. 113–12; H.R. 258 (Stolen Valor Act of 2013) section 2 (a)(2)(b)
Fraudulent Representations About Receipt of Military Decorations or Medals. <> --Whoever... fraudulently holds oneself out to be a recipient of a decoration or medal described in subsection (c)(2) or (d) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than one year, or both
which includes
by inserting ``a combat badge
as defined
Combat badge defined.--In this subsection, the term `combat badge' means ... Combat Action Medal
which is what a "combat V" is

as such, you are violating federal law, UCMJ, USAF regs, etc

reported
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Oh my, now I'll have to look up the proof of the Outstanding Unit Citation with Combat"V" Device we earned while I was in the outfit. I was an original BatCat, and we earned TWO of those awards while I was in the unit.

Our 553rd Reconnaissance Wing was eventually stripped of us techs after Igloo White and once again became a pure Special Ops unit, the 353rd SOG. They kept our BatCat.

Look us up. We cost a lot back then.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
No, I am not compensated for putting power into the line. NO. Got that?
https://www.energ...-systems

something to remember about that - as quoted from the link
The National Electrical Code (NEC), a product of the National Fire Protection Association, deals with electrical equipment and wiring safety
http://www.seia.o...reements

http://www.pge.co...options/

As an outsider, you are confused. you do not understand how it works.

at least i can provide information from your own PG&E, CA law, FED law and engineering specifications which refute your claims for those who want facts
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Oh my, now I'll have to look up the proof of the Outstanding Unit Citation with Combat"V" Device we earned
that entire post is irrelevant and unsubstantiated claims

if you could prove your award, you should do so for the military or local MPF (military personnel flight) so your record can be adjusted

Making claims on the internet is simply proving you know jack sh*t about the law, stolen valor, the military, engineering and more

if you continue to post OT irrelevant content i will simply report it

if you can't substantiate your claims regarding the topical discussion, i will report it

if you can't validate your claims to a relevant digression that is related to the OP, then you're simply pissing into a fan telling everyone it's raining

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Okay this regards the unit. It started out as comandos in Burma in WWII, added us to build and operate the system, and went back to pure SOG after shedding us Vietnam War techies who did the technical work in shop and in the air, 24/7/365 for years.

The Navy group VO-67 and the Air Commandos at Nahkon Phanom were all part of Igloo White.

"Decorations. Air Force Outstanding Unit Awards with Combat "V" Device: 1 Apr 1967-31 May 1968; 1 Jul 1968-15 Apr 1969; 2 Sep 2004-1 Sep 2006; 1 Oct 2006-30 Sep 2008. Air Force Outstanding Unit Awards: 6 Apr 1989-5 Apr 1991; 1 Jun 1993-31 May 1995; 1 Sep 1995-31 Aug 1997; 16 Oct 1998-31 May 2000; 13 Oct 2000-1 Sep 2002; 2 Sep 2002-1 Sep 2004. Philippine Presidential Unit Citation (WWII). Philippine Republic Presidential Unit Citation: 31 Jan-31 Jul 2002. Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Palm: 1 Apr 1967-15 Dec 1970."
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Okay this regards the unit
OT and irrelevant
no one cares
becuase
you didn't go prove it to the MPF and get your DD214 changed

therefore it's bullsh*t and unsubstantiated claims
nothing else

.

also note - get your little mind off wanking, and read the science
I contribute to the discussion by showing problems and linked evidence

you're just wanking in public while promoting yourself while still being unable to actually provide science discourse, which you denigrate everyone else for

because you've failed to stay on topic, and you can't refute the evidence with superior or other equivalent evidence, and you only want to regurgitate your narcissistic BS, i will be reporting each and every non-science post and anything that doesn't have links/references to science or the topic under discussion
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Your fixation on getting even is tiresome.

I am not promoting anything but science here, even though you have some weird kind of fixation. Do you have dossiers on others, too? Or just me?

Anyone else tick you off who you are stalking?
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Tell you guys what, . . since you say Wh and Btu are equivalent, I will give you 20% more if you convert every 3212 Btu I send you into one kWh. Where else can you make 20% as fast as possible?

Okay, . . 25%.

Wow, why didn't others think of this?
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 08, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
I am not promoting anything but science here
1- blatant false claim
see above or here: https://phys.org/...age.html

2- See also
The writer should know windmills grind grain...Outgrow your need for pollution and... get your little mind off wanking...I tried to tell that to "Ira"...Why don't you outgrow this Trumpish behavior?...now I'll have to look up the proof of the Outstanding Unit Citation
no science

how many links or references did you give to validate even the OT claims?
none

how many refuting references to the above links/ref's that prove you wrong?
none

you are not posting science - so reported per your own request
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 08, 2017
Hey, Toots, get your little mind off wanking, and read the science.

I contribute to the discussion by showing the problems and advantages of power production sources. My experience is in this field, and my MS concentrates on energy and the environment
George - sooner or later everybody who listens to you for any length of time finds out that you are lying cheating psychopath.

This is why you lost all of the 14-16 jobs you were so eager to tell us about.

Youre an incompetent.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 12, 2017
All this progress is bad news for the poor folk who rely on coal unless, like Clinton said, we get some programs together to cross-train some workers for renewables, and offer some societal assistance.

Conservatives will not do it. They will pinch their nickels and watch others die.

My wife and I have done the analysis and wound up better off than we planned, with the PV and EV saving us over $3000/year so far. Those without systems or with overarching political prejudice may not like it to see that it really works.
antialias_physorg
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
Less snarkily, you make the same friggin' comment with the same empty rhetoric every single time. Everyone's tired of it. You have absolutely nothing to contribute to the discussion. You just like to listen to yourself talk (or watch yourself type as the case may be).

Just stop already.

Just do what most everyone else does. Put him on ignore. He's so far gone in his own delusions of what he thinks he is, thinks he knows or thinks he has done that there's really no prospect of getting him to change his ways.

All he's doing is a huge disservice to the people who think renewables are a good idea by posting. Sometimes I think he's a deliberate plant by the Koch brothers to make people in favor of a changeover look like complete morons and frauds.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
Yeah, renewables are a good idea. Want to argue?

If you are tired of me defending myself, then get rid of the snipers. I came on to this forum with experience and wanted to share how things happen, but you folk who lurk here wanted to keep this forum to yourselves, as some kind of Twitter blog. All I got was screams of "LIAR" and "BULLSHIT" from otto and and snarkiness from his fellow sniper, "Ira".

Come on, why don't you folk grow up and stop attacking? Do you not understand it betrays your character, not mine?

Thanks for for the ignore. Now, I can present my case to others without having to deal with the adolescent snipers.

My case is it is now economical to be a good citizen, and you folk are probably tired of realizing you are not. It is personal responsibility how we live our lives.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Mar 14, 2017
Thanks for for the ignore. Now, I can present my case to others without having to deal with the adolescent snipers
No, you will never be allowed to present your 'case' to people without them learn exactly who and what you are. Most everybody here contributes to the effort to expose you as the lying, cheating, fact-fabricating psychopath you have proven yourself to be.

This hasnt stopped in all the months youve been here and it will never, ever, stop.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 14, 2017
Tell you guys what, . . since you say Wh and Btu are equivalent, I will give you 20% more if you convert every 3212 Btu I send you into one kWh. Where else can you make 20% as fast as possible?
Okay, . . 25%.
Wow, why didn't others think of this?


I would simply have to hand it back to you in whatever form you choose to deliver it, though you'd have to give me 3,414 BtU instead so I wouldn't have to add any.

https://en.wikipe...allacies
Jingle-jangle fallacies refer to the erroneous assumptions that two different things are the same because they bear the same name (jingle fallacy) or that two identical or almost identical things are different because they are labeled differently (jangle fallacy).[1][2][3] In research, a jangle fallacy describes the inference that two measures (e.g., tests, scales) with different names measure different constructs.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
You apparently choose to not get it.

How would you like to be valued only by your fuel value? Are you more than that?

Then, why use simpletonian and misleading characterizations of electromagnetism?
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 14, 2017
You apparently choose to not get it.


What is there to get? A 1 kW heater makes 1 kWh of heat in an hour. A 1 kW cooler makes 1 kWh of cold air in an hour. A 1 kW generator makes 1 kWh of electricity in an hour, and a motor consumes the same. 1 kWh is simply shorthand for 3,6 Megajoules - regardless of what you are measuring.

And so it is for BtU.

Anything else you say is just lunatic drivel.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Mar 14, 2017
And so it is for BtU
Watch it - george kamburoff the self-educated will tell you that youve got your caps and lower-case all mixed up which proves he knows everything and you_know_nothing.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
I changed my mind. I think you can't get it.

You assume the lowest value of what gives us the power to communicate.
We are talking electromagnetism here, not lowest value, not bulk or weight or simple "equivalents". By that measure you are equivalent to just so much coal in a furnace.

Go to Silicon Valley and talk about electronics in heat equivalents and see how long you last.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Go to Silicon Valley and talk about electronics in heat equivalents and see ho long you last
you mean like here? (only took the top 6 results on page 1, FYI)
http://www.svminc.com/

http://siliconvalleypower.com

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/

http://www.valleyheating.com/

https://www.faceb...8564465/

http://www.silico...eat-pump

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
Nope, you fail once again to even get the point. Instead of taking Hose Dynamics in school, perhaps a more rigorous course would have allowed you notice the difference between HVAC and microelectronics

Those of you who were never in these fields get screwed up all the time.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Nope, you fail once again to even get the point
actually, i think you don't get the point - you were just outed for lying again, WRT btu's and all that, as well as your absolutely irrelevant stupid argument about silicon valley
need more?
https://search.us...=BTU+KWH

kinda making yourself look really stupid for an "engineer"
the difference between HVAC and microelectronics
but you didn't specify any of that, you idiot
in fact, "microelectronics" is mentioned in two posts on this page, and only because i copied/pasted your idiot post
Those of you who were never in these fields get screwed up all the time
oops again
Ira is a real engineer - you already admitted you are not one
and i'm not confused

feel free to keep arguing the point without a shred of evidence or validation - i'll just report ya!
thanks

.

'

so per your own request, yet again...
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
Being a Bilge Engineer does not qualify one to understand electronics.

And you understand my point, you just cannot bear to lose again.

Tell you what , I will trade up to 4,000 Btu of heat for only 3412 Btu of electrical power. You can keep the difference.

Give you 3412 Btu of heat and you'll light your cigar.

Give it to me as electricity, and I'll run your computer for hours.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 14, 2017
Being a Bilge Engineer does not qualify one to understand electronics.
That is why I have had the advantage over you since day one Cher.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 14, 2017
Yup, ignorance seems to be prized in the Red States.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Mar 14, 2017
Nope, you fail once again to even get the point
They get the point. You cant be wrong because youre George Kamburoff. And all those goobers who fired you 14-16 times for spouting the same insane bullshit didnt get the point either did they?
Eikka
5 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2017
Tell you what , I will trade up to 4,000 Btu of heat for only 3412 Btu of electrical power


You're shifting the goalposts so fast they're bending in the wind.

Besides, I'll give you 4,000 Btu of heat in a bucket of water, try lighting your cigarette with that. Likewise, I can give you 1 kWh of electricity in Leyden jars - try running your computer with that.

Pretending that Btu and kWh refer to any particular way or form of energy is just plain stupid. They're both simply convenience units that refer to a particular quantity of Joules, the same as how particle physicists use electron-volts even though they're still talking about Joules.

The whole argument is like the observation that milk comes in gallons but soda in liters. It would be completely idiotic to say that gallons means milk while liters mean soda.

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
No, once again, you assume the fuel value is the only value, or even a major one.

It is why you did not work with me at National Semiconductor.

I see a great lack of understanding here. Are you folk really that limited? Should I send you one of my courses?
Eikka
5 / 5 (3) Mar 17, 2017
No, once again, you assume the fuel value is the only value, or even a major one.


You're the one who's assuming things. Nobody understands the point you're trying to make because it doesn't make any sense.

Btu and kWh are just units. Neither of them means anything if you don't specify what you're measuring with them - you can't always assume BTU refers to the heating value of a fuel, or that kWh refers to an amount of electricity - and that's why they're interchangeable for all intents and purposes.

In the US/UK air conditioning unit output is measured in BTU/h - in the rest of the world, kilowatts. Run the machine for an hour, and the result is BTUs and kWhs. Same machine, same amount of cold air - the difference is simply which unit is more convenient to you.

Eikka
5 / 5 (4) Mar 17, 2017
I see a great lack of understanding here. Are you folk really that limited?


Seriously. Your complaint about the matter is like claiming that you can't have a mile of lumber because roads are measured in miles.

Your brain is very one-tracked.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2017
Completely over your head, . . . .

If them Btus are the same from fossil or electricity, why are the electric ones much higher (usually 3-3.5 times) in cost?

Value? How is that gas and heat-powered phone of yours doing?

I'd like to see the display. Does it emit pollution?

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