Survey: Fraud-free elections, free speech, key to democracy

A survey of U.S. political science professors a month into Donald Trump's presidency shows that fraud-free elections tops a list of 19 principles as most essential to democracy, as do free speech and a free press.

Political scientists at Dartmouth College, the University of Rochester and Yale University collaborated on the survey as part of an initiative they called Bright Line Watch. They wanted to get the experts' reading on the status of democratic practices and potential threats to American democracy.

Dartmouth professor John Carey said the group's motivation was impatience with many news articles saying "the sky is falling" with regard to the status of American democracy since Trump's victory. He added: "What we're doing is not motivated by a partisan agenda; it's really an intellectual agenda."

Participants were asked to rank principles on how important they are for a democratic government, and then rate them on how well they describe the United States now. Clean elections and equal voting rights were ranked as high priorities for democracy.

One principle, that elections be free from foreign influence, was regarded by the vast majority as essential or important. But less than half thought the U.S. mostly or fully meets this standard, and a number said they weren't sure if it did. The results probably speak to how new and unsettling the prospect of foreign interference is for many , said Yale University professor Susan Stokes, who co-organized the survey.

"My own hunch is that anxiety about this issue is related not just to reporting that there was Russian influence (in the November presidential election), but also to reports of the insidious nature of that influence—that it was carried out in a highly clandestine manner through hacking, and that its true nature may never be revealed," she said.

U.S. agencies, including the FBI, have been probing Russian interference in the 2016 election. Three congressional committees are conducting separate investigations into the issue, including contacts between Russian officials and members of the Trump campaign and administration.

The principle of all votes having equal impact on election results ranked low on the priority list for democracy, "probably reflecting long-standing institutions of electoral exclusion and wide socioeconomics inequalities that have been matters of concern for many years," the study said.

Rated as least essential is that politicians campaign without criticism of their opponents' loyalty or patriotism.

The group surveyed 9,820 professors at 511 U.S. institutions by email Feb. 13-19, and received 1,571 responses. The survey sample was compiled from a list of U.S. institutions represented in the online program of the 2016 meeting of the American Political Science Association conference.


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Feb 25, 2017
What would be the best way to influence a presidential election if you had virtually unlimited resources?
Assemble a think tank and do brain storming to accomplish your goal.
If you want to get a particular candidate elected. Find all the dirt you can on the opposition and publish it.
Then wait till just before election (to late to verify before election) and release false news stories.
If the voters don't like you then whatever you do, don't praise, endorse, or say anything good about candidate you want elected! Do the reverse and praise the one you don't want elected while saying absurd things about the one you want elected. Example "Trump just wants to abolish democracy"
We saw this in this past election. Do you really think Putin is dumb and without any smart advisors?
Why would Putin praise President Trump knowing that would cripple his chance of being elected?
There were fake news stories but I personally did not see any that made President Trump look really good

Feb 25, 2017
You'r epretty much describing the hack of the democrats...and pretty much all Trump is saying (allegations of "fake news" being the latest)
don't you?

You're employing the exact strategy you're painting as nefarious. Hypocrit much?

Do you really think Putin is dumb and without any smart advisors?

Putin wants a weak US. He didn't have much to laugh about vs. Obama. Clinton would have been more of the same. He certainly got his wish: Turmoil, a weak US and an idiot in charge. This will be easy pickins for him.

Feb 25, 2017
As soon as you called ANY self made world leader any adjective like dumb, idiot etc, I totally disregard anything you have to say, because it is obvious who really fits that bill.
Unless of course you are a world leader who has achieved more than the one your talking about.

Feb 25, 2017
Just because a leader is smarter than you does not mean he is smarter than the rest of us.

The Republicans are Tools of Putin now. You owe him. And he now controls the future of Trump.

Feb 25, 2017
Well now, let's see:
1. Fraud free elections: Depends how you mean that. It's extremely unlikely that Trump won by election or voter fraud; but the election was influenced by external state actors (Russian hacks). Also, it's clear that the Republicans have gerrymandered.
2. Free media: Trump's sure working on shutting the media up, but it doesn't seem to be very effective. And it's likely that the harder he pushes the less effective it will get. The dude is a public relations nightmare, and seems to create a major titillating scandal every week. This can't help but push subscription rates up as people gather to watch the circus.

So overall, I don't think US democracy is in immediate peril; but I think a lot of bad stuff is going to happen over the next four years. How tolerant the general public is going to be of this remains to be seen.

Feb 25, 2017
Look up "Diebold" and "rob Georgia".

Black Box Voting found how Bush won Georgia.

Feb 25, 2017
Free media: Trump's sure working on shutting the media up, but it doesn't seem to be very effective. And it's likely that the harder he pushes the less effective it will get. The dude is a public relations nightmare, and seems to create a major titillating scandal every week.
He does that hoping nobody is going to look behind the curtain while he is installing his fellow plutocrats. And when they are twice as rich in four years, and his "True Believers" are twice as poor, he can blame it all on the "Enemy of the Peoples"

So overall, I don't think US democracy is in immediate peril; but I think a lot of bad stuff is going to happen over the next four years.
That is my take on it Cher. I am better prepared to weather the storm than a lot peoples, and I do feel for them. (Not the "True Believers" they get what they asked for and we tried to tell them.)

Feb 25, 2017
Look up "Diebold" and "rob Georgia".

Black Box Voting found how Bush won Georgia.


@ glam-Skippy. How you are Cher? I am good, thanks for asking. Cher, I know how you like to repeat your slogans over and over and some more overs.

But Cher, you sure would look like less an idiot if you looked it up your self. Non, Cher. That is not how Bush won Georgia. The only thing it had to do with Georgia is that was what the memo was called.

Feb 25, 2017
Very few folk in my state were suckered by him, .. or Dubya. In fact, we are in favor of resisting him, state-wide.

Putin owns Trump, and can take him down anytime he wants. Not a good situation for a nation to be in.

Who did this to us?

Feb 25, 2017
Cherie, "rob Georgia" was the name of the folder which held the program for the Diebold voting machines in Georgia. Their CEO went public with the notice he would do all in his power to see Bush win, so someone hacked into their corporation and found the evidence of why the "votes" were so out of line with the exit polls.

Feb 25, 2017
Geez, @Gracie, you better get over your fixation on Ira. Having a temper tantrum every time he posts makes you look pretty much like what he says you are.

@Ira, in the end Nixon's shenanigans wound up having a beneficial political effect, though it certainly wasn't by his or anyone in his administration's intent. I'll be interested to see the extent to which Trump has similar effects, since many of the things Trump is trying seem very similar to Nixon's strategems.

Feb 25, 2017
The election is question was the 2002 Georgia election. No evidence of fraud was found because Deibold machines didn't keep a permanent count. Bush was not running for anything in Georgia in 2002, or anywhere else either in 2002.

The CEO whatever his name was I forget. Was making a joke about him swinging the Ohio vote for Bush in 2004.

Somebody later later found the Rob Georgia file and spilled the beans, or so they thought. Nobody has ever actually come up with the file so it might just be the urban myth. And it did not have nothing to do with Bush winning the state of Georgia. They named it because of the flap over the 2002 Georgia election. But that file was not even in existence in 2002.

When you feel like shouting ""Diebold Rob Georgia" is how Bush stole Georgia"", you should shout ""Diebold Rob Georgia" is how Bush stole Ohio, maybe."""

If you would learn to use the Google-Skippy and slack up on the pot you wouldn't look so stupid, BEFORE you say look it up.

Feb 25, 2017
@Ira, in the end Nixon's shenanigans wound up having a beneficial political effect, though it certainly wasn't by his or anyone in his administration's intent. I'll be interested to see the extent to which Trump has similar effects, since many of the things Trump is trying seem very similar to Nixon's strategems.


That would be the best outcome, a return to sensibility. And you know me, I try to keep the positive outlook. But the "True Believers" can't bring them selfs to see what is plain as day. And the others pretend to believe so they can get their goodies.

Feb 25, 2017
Nice, @Ira.

It's important to note that these kinds of games only work when elections are very, very close. What's evident is that we're not getting candidates in the US from either major party who have the vision to convince a majority of us that they will do a good job for us. That's not our failing, it's theirs. More evidence that sociology is not very effective and really shouldn't be called a "science" any more than economics is.

Feb 25, 2017
Gosh, Da Snot, are you sure?

I was responding to derkis when Auntie Ira cut in. You are sounding just like the trolls.

Your emotions are driving you off the cliff.

Feb 25, 2017
That would be the best outcome, a return to sensibility. And you know me, I try to keep the positive outlook. But the "True Believers" can't bring them selfs to see what is plain as day. And the others pretend to believe so they can get their goodies.
I've been informed (I'll leave it to you to spot the character of my informant) that the statement, "The average IQ is 100," is "elitist."

I'd say it's a valid interpretation of your comment.

What can we do about it? Not much as I see it.

I guess we're old and cynical. ;)

Feb 25, 2017
Nice, @Ira.

It's important to note that these kinds of games only work when elections are very, very close. What's evident is that we're not getting candidates in the US from either major party who have the vision to convince a majority of us that they will do a good job for us. That's not our failing, it's theirs. More evidence that sociology is not very effective and really shouldn't be called a "science" any more than economics is.


I really did not think the Trump-Skippy was even going to win the nomination. I was glad when he did because I thought he was the only who could lose to Clinton. I sure called that one wrong, eh?


Feb 25, 2017
@Gracie, doubling down on the temper tantrum is just more evidence we accrue about you.

"It's better to appear a fool by remaining silent than to speak and remove all doubt." -Apocryphal, attributed to Mark Twain

@Ira,
I sure called that one wrong, eh?
You and me both, bro.

Feb 26, 2017
Just because a leader is smarter than you does not mean he is smarter than the rest of us.


Please list your verifiable accomplishments, so we can decide if your even as close to being as smart as our President or just full (as I suspect) of hot air. But I am fairly sure no anyone else on here has ever heard of you (or I) or even cares to.

Feb 26, 2017
derki, I am not your lying president, nor do I want to be. This is not about me. It is about Trump, what he is doing to America, and those who got fooled, like they did with "WMD!".

Feb 26, 2017
In reality, we all know who would have won if the election wasn't rigged by russians, fbi, etc. See;

http://www.hillar...rump.org

Feb 26, 2017
What the hell is a Trump Skippy? Also, what the hell is a google skippy?

Feb 26, 2017
It is an affectation.

Feb 26, 2017
@ James-Webbs-Skippy. How you are Cher? I am good, thanks for asking.

What the hell is a Trump Skippy? Also, what the hell is a google skippy?


Cher if I got to explain something as simple as that, you must be as stupid as glam-Skippy. Next time why you don't try to come up with a better question so you don't look so foolish, eh?

Feb 26, 2017
It is an affectation.


Was that you pretending to be an anonymous sniper Cher?

Feb 26, 2017
I was going to warn you, JamesWebb. You have disturbed an anonymous internet sniper, and now he will follow you around like he does to me, harassing you.

It is a strange character defect.

Feb 26, 2017
I was going to warn you, JamesWebb. You have disturbed an anonymous internet sniper, and now he will follow you around like he does to me, harassing you.
That is rich Cher. A buffoon sniper, warning an anonymous sniper to beware of an anonymous sniper. Skippy do you really not understand why peoples make such fun with you?

Is it the old age? The pot? Both? Maybe you was born that way.

Feb 26, 2017
It is a strange character defect.
If you were not bat-poo-crazy that might mean something.

Feb 26, 2017
Well, you're the expert on poo, down there in the brown water.

But what DO we do about getting confidence in elections? I suggest we get NIST to develop the architecture of such a secure tabulator with multiple checks so we have a national standard.

Feb 26, 2017
@ James-Webbs-Skippy. How you are Cher? I am good, thanks for asking.

What the hell is a Trump Skippy? Also, what the hell is a google skippy?


Cher if I got to explain something as simple as that, you must be as stupid as glam-Skippy. Next time why you don't try to come up with a better question so you don't look so foolish, eh?


My name is not cher, nor did I ever refer to myself as cher. Your qualifier of what makes someone stupid, is in itself, stupid. Not only was the question a good one, I'll ask it again.

What the hell is a Trump skippy, google skippy, or a james webb skippy?

And, why would you call some cher when you don't know them? Do you understand that it makes you sound like a fool? Painting people who ask about your annoying affectation as asking a foolish question, is in itself foolish.

Feb 26, 2017
Do you have to limit your use of Skippys to get under the character limitations at times?

Feb 26, 2017
his is not about me.


So in other words you have absolutely no verifiable accomplishments. That does not make you a bad person it just makes you like me "A person whose opinion is not worth the air they use to try to express an opinion."

Feb 26, 2017
it just makes you like me

If you believe this: Soooo..why are you here again?

Feb 26, 2017
My "accomplishments" are not in the field of elections.

Nor are they the subject of this thread.

Feb 26, 2017
I call everybody Cher or Cherie.. I also call everybody Skippy or Skippette.

Your qualifier of what makes someone stupid, is in itself, stupid. Not only was the question a good one, I'll ask it again.
Well since you think it was smart enough to ask twice then I will answer it.

What the hell is a Trump skippy, google skippy, or a james webb skippy?
A Trump-Skippy is a Trump (that's the name of our president). Google-Skippy is the Google peoples you ask your really smart questions to. A James-Webbs-Skippy is a silly couyon on the physorg that calls him self JamesWebbsSpaceScope.

Really was to so hard to figure out?

you understand that it makes you sound like a fool?
You think I care?

Painting people who ask about your annoying affectation as asking a foolish question, is in itself foolish.
Non Cher, I explain to you in Nov how to keep from being annoyed. But seems you were too foolish to pay attention.

Feb 26, 2017
@ James-Webbs-Skippy. Sorry Cher, but here you are with another really stupid question. But I will answer him for you too.

Do you have to limit your use of Skippys to get under the character limitations at times?


Non Cher. Smart Skippys like me know how to make an extra part when I need more letter spaces. Now you want to try to say something else that will show me how foolish you are?

Laissez les bons temps rouler Cher-Skippy. (That's coonass for: "Just like I tell everybody else, if you don't like me helping to make you look foolish, then don't write me some foolish comment. If it bugs you that much, I already told last Nov and easy way to avoid the annoyance. Do I need to make you look more foolish by explaining it to you again?)

@ Everybody else. If Ol-Ira-Skippy bugs you, you are welcome to Skippy-Skip over the stuffs I write. Physorg was nice enough to make it really easy (unless you are extra stupid like James-Webbs-Skippy) to put me on ignore.

Feb 26, 2017
why would you call some cher when you don't know them? Do you understand that it makes you sound like a fool?
@JamesWebbsSpaceScope
it is common usage in certain area's of the country (like LA), and it is no different than calling someone "Bubba" in the south, or "pal", or "hey you" in other areas - it is just a language quirk common to a specific area of the US

your "fool" argument makes the assumption that all people in the US have the same language, syntax or slang as in your specific area, which is definitely not true - hell, even within a state there can be insanely different syntax, slang and pronunciations (see FL for example: Miami slang differs from Orlando, Pensacola or Tampa, all of which can differ from small towns like Brooksville)

don't assume slang indicates ignorance or stupidity - watch the content
content is important
it is why gkam is considered an idiot while Ira is considered intelligent

Feb 26, 2017
it is why gkam is considered an idiot while Ira is considered intelligent


Yet neither one has any verifiable accomplishments to speak of.
They bad mouth President Trump who definitely has verifiable accomplishments, whether they like those accomplishments or not. It's those presidential accomplishments that make us all so attentive to him.

Feb 26, 2017
My name is not cher, nor did I ever refer to myself as cher. Your qualifier of what makes someone stupid, is in itself, stupid. Not only was the question a good one, I'll ask it again
And I think its pretty freekin ignorant to disparage someones culture, or in this case to encourage another bigot who regularly does it.

Feb 26, 2017
it is why gkam is considered an idiot while Ira is considered intelligent


Yet neither one has any verifiable accomplishments to speak of. They bad mouth President Trump who definitely has verifiable accomplishments,


Well you might have point you are trying to make. What it is? One of us spends all day everyday telling everybody about all his "accomplishments". The other don't care if anybody thinks he has accomplishments or not. Can you guess which one is which?

A lot of accomplishments, a few accomplishments or no accomplishments. Choot, I'll make it easy on you. I don't have any accomplishments at all. Non, not a one. Never done a thing in my whole 40 years. What you going to say about that huh?

I don't have any silly looking pointy caps with the Trump logo on him, I do have a nice red one and some crayons you can use to decorate up him with Maybe next time I go down to stock up on silly looking pointy caps they Have the Trump logo version.

Feb 26, 2017
Yet neither one has any verifiable accomplishments to speak of. They bad mouth President Trump who definitely has verifiable accomplishments,


Well you might have point you are trying to make. What it is? One of us spends all day everyday telling everybody about all his "accomplishments". The other don't care if anybody thinks he has accomplishments or not. Can you guess which one is which?

A lot of accomplishments, a few accomplishments or no accomplishments. Choot, I'll make it easy on you. I don't have any accomplishments at all. Non, not a one. Never done a thing in my whole 40 years. What you going to say about that huh?

I don't have any silly looking pointy caps with the Trump logo on him, I do have a nice red one and some crayons you can use to decorate up him with Maybe next time I go down to stock up on silly looking pointy caps maybe they'll have the Trump logo version, I'll check just for you ( if they don't cost to much.)

Feb 26, 2017
If you believe this: Soooo..why are you here again?

Are you saying your opinion is worth something or that you accomplished or convinced anyone of anything with your opion on here EVER?
I am here to point out that your opion is just nonsense like mine and everybody else's here.

Feb 27, 2017
Never done a thing in my whole 40 years. What you going to say about that huh?


Of course you have accomplishments, and plenty of them! All of us do.
But none that match President Trumps. Nor would any 10 of us put together match President Trumps, in 10 lifetimes.
None of us on here are good enough to wipe the mud off his boots. But some of us have such a big ego we would argue the point, without a leg to stand on.(verifiable accomplishments)

It's OK to argue against his ideas and policies but it;s not right to slander someone that has achieved so much more than us.

Feb 27, 2017
Are you saying your opinion is worth something

Of course, because my 'opinions' are based on testable facts (i.e. no one needs to just believe what I say, they can go and check it). And I'll gladly back up any statement I make. That's what you learn in science and engineering: Statements are only worth as much as the reality that backs them up.

or that you accomplished or convinced anyone of anything with your opion on here EVER?

Of course I have, because what I say is backed up by facts. I have caused people to double-check their (unfounded) assumptions by themselves and in that way knowledge is aligned. It's called 'teaching' (of course this works both ways).
Works a treat.

I am here to point out that your opion is just nonsense like mine

Your opinion is nonsense (this is something we wholeheartedly agree on). Mine is based on cirteable facts. But since yours - by your own admission - is nonsense it's probably OK to put you on ignore.

Feb 27, 2017
See what I mean about inflated ego! :-)
It probably comes as no surprise to the others on here, that with all your wisdom, you are the teacher to all of them.
And just to point out what a great teacher you are and all your options are factual because they are based on fact.
Definition of opinion - a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Don't take offense because that's not true about a God like you. :-)
PS Your still not good enough to clean the mud off Presidents Trumps boots.

Feb 27, 2017
Of course, because my 'opinions' are based on testable facts (i.e. no one needs to just believe what I say, they can go and check it)
Shit I know I should have kept a file.
And I'll gladly back up any statement I make
This only works if aa acknowledges challenges rather than putting challengers on ignore.

Hello? [tap tap] Is this thing on?

Feb 27, 2017
But none that match President Trumps
@rderkis
for starters, that is argument from authority
for two: it doesn't matter what "accomplishments" anyone makes if what they claim is a false claim or is invalidated by evidence
you can be the most "accomplished" PhD on the planet with billions but if you say the moon is made of green cheese, you're still wrong
facts matter - it is the basis of the scientific method

.

.

Of course, because my 'opinions' are based on testable facts
@antialias_physorg
most of them: yes
but
BIG but - you have your own "opinions" about things that are not based on fact (like soldiers/military etc)
nobody is perfect -just sayin'

Feb 27, 2017
Of course you have accomplishments, and plenty of them! All of us do.
Well thanks I was hoping I was not all bad.

But none that match President Trumps.
How you know that?

Nor would any 10 of us put together match President Trumps, in 10 lifetimes.
You think he is god like superman?

None of us on here are good enough to wipe the mud off his boots.
Well his boots will just have to stay muddy, eh? What the heck does that even mean?

But some of us have such a big ego we would argue the point, without a leg to stand on.(verifiable accomplishments)
Well you keep chirping about his accomplishments. Accomplishments are like Baskin Robbins and drunks in the Big Sleazy, they come in a lot different flavors and all shapes and sizes.

I got one more piece but need more letter spaces so I will P.S. you for the rest.

Feb 27, 2017
it;s not right to slander someone that has achieved so much more than us.


What I say to slander him? I said he is not nice like me. He is not (in public anyway.) He is not as smart as me either. And he is not as good looking as me either. Those is not slanders, that is just the way it is.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. Do you mean the part about his wife? That was not slander, non. That is just simple truth. Melonia-Skippette has big plastic fake breasts. And her face is usually made up like some sort of baby doll on the girls aisle down at the Toyz-R-Us store.And her hair looks like it was made out of the stuff they use on those baby dolls too.

Mrs-Ira-Skippette breasts are real and normal sized. And she doesn't use enough make-up to take care of 10 Bourbon Street Entrepreneur-Skippettes like Melonia does. And Mrs-Ira-Skippette's hair is soft and flexable instead of hair that looks like it would survive a hurricane.

Feb 27, 2017
And she doesn't use enough make-up to take care of 10 Bourbon Street Entrepreneur-Skippettes like Melonia does. And Mrs-Ira-Skippette's hair is soft and flexable instead of hair that looks like it would survive a hurricane.

Wow you just described my 70 year old cleaning lady to a tee. :-)
Maybe if you gave her a little money and time off, the misses would get cleaned up.

As far as slander, your right, opinion and slander are usually two different things. But from what I can tell a civil court of law decides in the end.

Feb 27, 2017
But none that match President Trumps.

Such as? He hasn't done anything yet. All he's done so far is make a mess of foreign relations and tell you you'll have less healtcare and less clean environment but more nuclear bombs (and he hasen't done any of THAT, either, yet). How is that a plan*?

Oh..all he's done so far is to say how great he is. And how well everything is running (what was it today? Third person who flat out refused to join his cabinet? Well oiled, indeed). But talk ain't exactly doin' stuff.

So stop weasling...what has he exactly done until now except produce a lot of hot air? At that he's certainly the greatest president (or just plain person) ever.

*if he gets his cues from Putin then that IS actually a plan - because that's how the Soviet Union went bankrupt.

Feb 27, 2017
Such as? He hasn't done anything yet
Besides pick some very excellent cabinet members, here are a few dozen things Hes done already.
http://www.cnn.co...moranda/

-aa thinks the border wall will go up as quick as the berlin wall.

Feb 27, 2017
But from what I can tell a civil court of law decides in the end.


Skippy come on down to Lafourche Parish, that is Louisiana at the very bottom. Ask anybody for directions to the house of some couyon who calls him self Ira-Skippy. I garrantee you won't have to ask more three or two people before you run into somebody who can help you.

Tell them you are going to take me to the civilized court because I said something mean about Trump (as long as you wear that silly looking pointy cap they will probably laugh instead of giving you a ruff time). I am real sure they will be interested in seeing how that pans out in the court.

Cher, I really want to tell you true. Trump-Skippy does not have anything that I want enough to give up what already I got.

I think a man so "accomplished" like you say he is, could go a day without whining about how mean everybody treats him. I haven't had to complain about being treated mean in, well I just can't remember.

Feb 27, 2017
[I think a man so "accomplished" like you say he is, could go a day without whining about how mean everybody treats him. I haven't had to complain about being treated mean in, well I just can't remember.


Bla Bla Bla -.Wow all those words and you said nothing.

Feb 27, 2017
Such as? He hasn't done anything yet.

He became President of the United States, the most powerful nation on Earth. :-)
None of us here will match that one accomplishment in ten lifetimes.

Feb 28, 2017
opinion and slander are usually two different things
@rderkis
for starters, you need to understand the differences between slander and libel (the former is oral, the latter is written)

then you need to be able to prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that said defamation "harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation" [LeRoy Miller, Roger (2011). Business Law Today: The Essentials. United States: South-Western Cengage Learning]

don't forget the False light laws, mind you (this is where free speech comes in as well as production of facts, etc - so long as there is an original source then said person can argue promotion of data by source - so it aint libel)

more importantly - who cares?
i don't see POTUS making a profile on PO

if it's that important to you, start a cult, make POTUS your demigod and ban heresy
skip past the whole "fact" thing...

Feb 28, 2017
I think a man so "accomplished" like you say he is, could go a day without whining about how mean everybody treats him. I haven't had to complain about being treated mean in, well I just can't remember.


Bla Bla Bla -.Wow all those words and you said nothing.
Okayeei then. Apology accepted. Glad we got that out of the way and can get back to accomplishing stuffs.

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