Experiment to weigh 'ghost particles' starts in Germany

October 14, 2016
Scientist Thomas Thuemmler, stands next to the main spectrometer of the Karlsruhe Institute for Technology, near Karlsruhe Germany, Friday Oct. 14, 2016. Scientists in Germany have flipped the switch on a €60 million (US $66 million) device designed to help determine the mass of the universe's lightest particle. Physicists at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology hope the 200-metric-tons (220 tons) device will narrow down or even pinpoint the actual mass of neutrinos. Doing so would help scientists to better understand the history of the universe. (Uwe Anspach/dpa via AP)

Scientists in Germany have flipped the switch on a 60 million euro ($66 million) machine designed to help determine the mass of the universe's lightest particle.

The Karlsruhe Tritium Neutrino experiment, or KATRIN, began tests Friday and is expected to begin making actual measurements next year.

Physicists at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology hope the 200-metric-ton (220-ton) device will narrow down or even pinpoint the actual mass of .

Doing so would help scientists to better understand the history of the universe. Neutrinos are sometimes referred to as "ghost particles" because they are so difficult to detect.

The institute says more than 150 and engineers from five countries are participating in the experiment.

Scientist Thomas Thuemmler, stands next to the main spectrometer of the Karlsruhe Institute for Technology, near Karlsruhe Germany, Friday Oct. 14, 2016. Scientists in Germany have flipped the switch on a €60 million (US $66 million) device designed to help determine the mass of the universe's lightest particle. Physicists at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology hope the 200-metric-tons (220 tons) device will narrow down or even pinpoint the actual mass of neutrinos. Doing so would help scientists to better understand the history of the universe. (Uwe Anspach/dpa via AP)

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retarded_genius
1 / 5 (2) Oct 14, 2016
edit
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (6) Oct 15, 2016
Yes, handicapped intelligence; start with a false premise, no correct axiomatic structure, no definitions, just keep spending money and knowledge will pop out of nowhere! I use to think you had to bring some to get some!

150? Really? Where did you find this many idiots?

Let me help. When the bogus particle, the neutron, i.e. a combo of a proton and an electron, splits, there is oscillation, neutrino! The spherical field does not occupy space exclusively, a proton and an electron may occupy the same point! Now, start over! No particles guys, only fields! Stop using megascopic to define the elemental! By the way, Modern Physics needs an update, very, very, badly, your universal constants are bogus. By the way, the speed of light is not constant! The number 1 is a constant, there is a difference, ask a high school student.
rrrander
5 / 5 (2) Oct 16, 2016
Kind of a thread bare story about it.
optical
Oct 16, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
optical
Oct 16, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
nathanielrhamrick
not rated yet Oct 17, 2016
Lol authors did a "kthxbai" on us
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (1) Oct 17, 2016
You can't weigh radiation, duh.
Hyperfuzzy
2 / 5 (4) Oct 18, 2016
To all: found this movie which pretty well describes the experimental setup - check it out, it's well worth it:

https://neutrino....play.htm

@HF
150? Really? Where did you find this many idiots?
...really, you should watch the movie to see many of those "idiots" working together in this splendid international collaboration toward the goal of obtaining an answer to the fundamental question "How much mass does a neutrino have?", and to what end? To further human knowledge, and maybe get a couple of tech spinoffs. Cheap at twice the price...

Q. And what do you, @HF, have that's comparable?
A. Nothing but your dick in your hand, f*ckwit.

Is it fiction? Does it have a plot? What's the genre, for kids?
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (3) Oct 18, 2016

Is it fiction? Does it have a plot? What's the genre, for kids?
Conservation of mass? Only axiom? I'm impressed by how much work is defined by stupidity. Great tools; however, the time varying field, i.e. the neutrino has all the information. Every oscillation describes the charge motion, not the other way around. Anyway, mass was a place holder for Newton 'cause he did not know where these fields came from. Only charge, no mass. So any measure will be in error. Better to fix the universal constants. We really need to have a great distrust in QM. QM did not predict tunneling but predicts stuff of being at multiple places at once. Can anyone see the nonsense of brilliance?
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (2) Oct 19, 2016
Can anyone see the nonsense of brilliance?

I just see nonsense....

That is a stupid reaction.
The concept of the experiment is simple enough and absolutely makes sense.
https://en.wikipe...periment

Concept of how many hz equals a particle and how much does it weigh is not stupid?
antialias_physorg
3 / 5 (2) Oct 19, 2016
So, no: there will be no applications for harnessing neutrinos themselves


Don't be so sure. With a good neutrino source and detector you could send signals straight through the Earth. Investment banks would pay any sum for such a technology (any microsecond of advance information is worth huge amounts of money on the stock market).
Sending stuff through the planet would also mean effectively untappable point-to-point communications - which any military/secret service organization would value quite a bit.

Same goes for any kind of space based emitter. With a neutrino source any occlusion (e.g. satellite behind the Earth) would be a thing of the past.

Of course the receiver for all these applications would be rather large-ish.
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (1) Oct 19, 2016
WTF sort of argument is this? No body seems to have a point!
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (1) Oct 19, 2016
@HF
No body seems to have a point!
Nobody's body except yours, that is: underneath that dunce's cap you wear is a very pointy head.

U so funny and stupid, LOL!
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Oct 20, 2016
You'd need a truly vast neutrino factory beaming ridiculous quantities of neutrinos in the required direction

Hey, I never said it was immediately practical at current tech levels. But when you think back on how quantum physics got started (and now we're on the verge of quantum computers)...or how Einstein thought that lasers were a neat toy but would never see any practical application because they were unfeasable (and it's probably easier to count the technologies that do NOT benefit from lasers, today, than those that do)...then I think it's a bit premature to call neutrino tech an absolute no go for all future times.

Modulating the signal quickly is actually feasible today (by switching the producer off/on or just misaligning it with the target, since the ejection of neutrinos happen at very specific angles due to conservation of momentum in decay reactions)

"All" that is needed is a detector that couples better to neutrinos (a pretty big "all", admittedly)
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Oct 20, 2016

Much more sensible to use quantum cryptography for your banking chums.

For banks the issue is speed, not security. Banks have been vying for properties that are (physically) closer to stock exchanges for years and have been setting up direct laser communication systems because satellite communications introduce a lag that would cost them millions. Computer trading can react within incredibly small timeslices. If two banks use the same algorithm but one has a 1 millisecond lag then the first bank makes money and the second one loses money. Continuously.

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