US Navy keeps electromagnetic cannon in its sights

US Navy image shows the Electromagnetic Railgun which employs vast amounts of electromagnetic energy to fire a projectile and re
US Navy image shows the Electromagnetic Railgun which employs vast amounts of electromagnetic energy to fire a projectile and represents a paradigm shift in ballistic technology

The US Navy is quietly pushing ahead with a radical new cannon that one day could transform how wars are fought, even though some Pentagon officials have voiced concerns over its cost and viability.

Named the railgun, the weapon in question represents a paradigm shift in ballistic technology. Instead of using gunpowder and explosive charges to shoot a shell from its barrel, it employs vast amounts of electromagnetic energy to zoom a projectile along a set of copper-alloy rails.

Thanks to four small fins on its rear, the hefty round can then be guided toward a moving object—such as an enemy ship, drone or incoming ballistic missile—relying purely on the kinetic energy from its vast momentum to destroy the target.

Ultimately, scientists expect the railgun rounds to travel at speeds up to Mach 7.5, which at 5,700 mph (9,100 kph) is more than seven times the speed of sound, and cover a distance of about 100 miles (160 kilometers.)

"The railgun is revolutionary in terms of how much it can accelerate the bullet," Tom Boucher, the railgun program manager for Office of Naval Research, told AFP at the Pentagon as he displayed six interconnected steel plates that all had been shredded by a single test round.

"Powder guns have been matured to the point where you are going to get the most out of them. Railguns are just beginning."

The futuristic weapon has long been a darling of the Navy's research wing, along with other game-changing technologies such as laser beams that can track a boat in choppy water and blast holes in its hull.

Yet the railgun, which so far has cost more than $500 million, may find itself becoming something of a victim of its own success—even before it is made operational.

A test round from the US Navy's Electromagnetic Railgun hits a target with scientists ultimately expecting railgun rounds to tra
A test round from the US Navy's Electromagnetic Railgun hits a target with scientists ultimately expecting railgun rounds to travel at speeds up to Mach 7.5, over a distance of about 100 miles

That's because of its special shells designed to hurtle through the skies at jaw-dropping speeds.

These rounds, called High Velocity Projectiles, can be guided in flight. They can also be fired from a conventional five-inch cannon.

Though the HVPs would travel slower than they would out of a railgun, they still outperform regular shells, making them a tempting proposition for the Navy to deploy across its fleet.

"It turns out that powder guns firing the same hyper-velocity projectiles gets you almost as much as you would get out of the electromag rail gun, and it's something we could do much faster," Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work told US lawmakers last month.

Each HVP eventually will cost about $50,000—still considerably more expensive than a conventional shell but an order of magnitude cheaper than guided missiles such as the Tomahawk, that cost more than $1 million apiece.

Hungry for power

Currently, it requires about 25 megawatts of energy to power a railgun. That kind of juice, and the space needed to generate or store it, rules out many vessels from hosting it, but researchers are optimistic the technology will grow more compact.

The Navy hopes to install a railgun on the USS Zumwalt, a brand new guided-missile destroyer that produces the large amounts of power needed to charge the weapon.

The Electromagnetic Railgun (EMRG) has long been a darling of the US Navy's research wing, along with other game-changing techno
The Electromagnetic Railgun (EMRG) has long been a darling of the US Navy's research wing, along with other game-changing technologies

The railgun has also suffered from technical setbacks during its development.

The enormous forces generated by the HVP leaving the gun caused early versions to fail after only a few shots, but scientists say they are now working toward a solution that could see the barrel last for thousands of rounds.

Boucher said he is optimistic the gun will ultimately end up being operationally deployed, probably within a decade.

"We are going to be OK," he said. "We are showing our progress, and the proof will be in what we do."

It's not just the Navy with its sights on the . The Army would one day like to put the electric blasters on its tanks, but is currently constrained the gun's power requirements.

Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley this week said he envisions a time in the not-so-distant future where railguns and lasers are deployed on land.

"We are looking at all those technologies," he said.

"My professional opinion is that I think we are on the cusp of a fundamental change in the character of ground warfare."


Explore further

Navy considers electric gun for a Zumwalt-class destroyer

© 2016 AFP

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Jun 25, 2016
Well, here's the sentiment of a smart guy on how the next wars will be fought
http://www.xkcd.com/1687/

Jun 25, 2016
"25 megawatts of energy"

I thought this was a science based website.

Jun 25, 2016
Why wars are fought? Greed (Resources, land) and plain meaness (the pleasure of being the top dogs, to sit and shit on everyone else's heads) mostly. In short, the alpha monkey syndrome, as it had been for the last 30,000 years.

Jun 25, 2016
Oh, great, let's squander more money making things to kill more people, and not waste time trying to solve real problems or to help people.

Yeah, . . we can use our resources to make more problems. What a great idea!!

Jun 25, 2016
While I sympathize with greenonions, there are unfortunately too many who see nothing wrong with killing others as a means to their ends.

It is perverse, but maintaining inexpensive, high accuracy, powerful weapons is necessary. The goal is to ensure that there is some sort of parity such that an attack will be very expensive. This is what discourages attacks from happening.

The design goals of the US military has usually emphasized precision over massive munitions. Being able to precisely target an attacker, leaving as little collateral damage as possible, makes it possible to negotiate a peace later with as little rancor as possible.

That is unfortunately the reality we face. Until humanity itself changes, no amount of wishful thinking can bring the peace that comes from the promise of precise, effective retaliation.

Jun 25, 2016
RichManJoe, it's a political website – but I'm sure you realize that.
Skepticus, you left off defense of what is legitimately valued. You're projecting your own thoughts into others minds.

Jun 25, 2016
President Trump would LOVE to have this.

Jun 25, 2016
While I sympathize with greenonions, there are unfortunately too many who see nothing wrong with killing others as a means to their ends.

You are talking about the US, here...right? Because if you look at a map about who thinks who is most likely to start wars you'll get something like this.
http://ak-hdl.buz...3-13.jpg
(If that surprises you you miiight want to rethink how impartial your teachings about history and current events are)

Jun 25, 2016
Eisenhower warned us, but we did not listen to him, we listened to Boeing and Lockheed and General Dynamics and the other folk who build machines of mass killing.

Jun 25, 2016
everything I have heard from the generals - is the philosophy of overwhelming force.

That's probably the most secure way to win a fight.

Are you not aware of the carpet bombing of Vietnam? How would this new gun transform the way that war was fought?

The way a war is fought is up to politicians and their generals. This gun, though, gives them the option of destroying targets within about 50 to 75 miles of shore, fairly precisely, reliably and with much less risk to our own military forces. Would that replace carpet bombing? I don't know.

I think that an intelligent species would make an overt declaration of the goal of ending war.

That, again, is up to the politicians, not the military. The purpose of the military is to stop the enemy by killing them and destroying their equipment, physically preventing the enemy's advances. Appeals to intellect or morality are left to other departments.

Jun 25, 2016
That, again, is up to the politicians, not the military.

It's not all as easy as that.

Let's consider this: "If all you have a hammer then everythinng looks like a nail"

Now, this doesn't just go for politicians, but also for the people who elect those politicians (i.e. they will likely elect hawks because their military as been totally hyped to them as "horonrable" and whatnot...and they have been made to think that their country can "solve all the world's wrongs through the application of violence"

...case in point: the post 9/11 elections.

Military feeds back into what kind of politicians are elected...and we're not even talking about the military industrial complex that is wholly dependent on such politicians coming to power and the shennanigans they can get up to to make sure that they do..

Jun 25, 2016
More of our "decisions" are just emotional reactions than we would like to admit.

From "Remember the Maine", another false cry, to "WMD!", we are suckers for it. I learned to look behind the scenes after the Gulf of Tonkin. I found out about the Office of Special Plans before we invaded Iraq for its oil. Why didn't most of the rest of you?

Those of us who served in other wars and protested against starting the Bush Wars were called traitors by the draft-dodging cowards who wanted to send others to kill for them, so they could feel powerful hiding at home.

Build more weapons until we are all broke and have nothing but weapons, no schools, no roads, no civilization, but lots of big guns. Conservative Paradise.

Jun 25, 2016
More of our "decisions" are just emotional reactions than we would like to admit.

From "Remember the Maine", another false cry, to "WMD!", we are suckers for it. I learned to look behind the scenes after the Gulf of Tonkin. I found out about the Office of Special Plans before we invaded Iraq for its oil. Why didn't most of the rest of you?

Those of us who served in other wars and protested against starting the Bush Wars were called traitors by the draft-dodging cowards who wanted to send others to kill for them, so they could feel powerful hiding at home.

Build more weapons until we are all broke and have nothing but weapons, no schools, no roads, no civilization, but lots of big guns. Conservative Paradise.


geek, I gave you a 1Star only because you don't like those of us who can solve Differential Equations.

Jun 25, 2016
geek, I gave you a 1Star only because you don't like those of us who can solve Differential Equations."
-----------------------------

Not true. I only asked what good you did with them, and you had no answer.

Jun 25, 2016
Benni bro
You're beating that horse to death. Don't become like gkam who can't stop talking about his accomplishments in life. The topic is the Navy's "railgun". Talk about that, ok?
I never really looked into the mechanics and features of the railgun, so I am surprised that it fires a projectile. I thought that it would electrocute the enemy rather than put holes in it. LOL silly me.
I agree that it's a waste of money just to load a projectile to kill and damage when the same thing can be done with conventional weapons.
Just send women Marines to kill the ISIS/ISIL Muslim bastards and it's almost guaranteed to send them to panic city.
Any nation is only as strong as its military and its economy. This is a fact. Obama has been downsizing the US military, as well as destroying the US economy in the last 7 1/2 years of his tenure. Let's hope that he doesn't commit any more criminal acts against Congress and American citizens in the time he has left.

Jun 25, 2016
Oh, great, let's squander more money making things to kill more people, and not waste time trying to solve real problems or to help people.

Yeah, . . we can use our resources to make more problems. What a great idea!!
- gkam

I gave you a FIVE only because of your "squander money" remark. If you are against the US gov maintaining and devising new military weaponry (not the railgun), then you are a fool and a traitor to your country. America has several enemies and they don't fight with bows and arrows. Obama gave away our edge over Iran with his "Iran Deal" which will enable Iran to make nuclear weapons to kill us.

The next world war will be a nuclear war, thanks to Obama's chickenshit foreign policies. If the Hillary-beast becomes POTUS, it will be 4 more years of gov't crapping on Americans. You should make your choice, and it had better be a good one.

Jun 25, 2016
As long as there continue to be individuals who through psychopathic tendencies use violence, and who through social skills get elected as politicians, there will be violence. And the need to oppose it, which in the limit of available force means war.

Once the force is available, the desire for control of it practically guarantees that such an individual will eventually get their hands on the buttons, knobs, and levers. It doesn't matter why the force was originally brought to exist, even if it was for the best of reasons.

The only possible solution is mental hygiene. And the question then becomes, who sets the standards for the definition of what "clean mental health" means? Because whoever that is has ultimate power. And we just saw what that means above.

Quite a conundrum there.

Jun 25, 2016
"then you are a fool and a traitor to your country"
--------------------------

I am a Vietnam Vet. Who are you?

I suggest you perform The Cheney, a particularly violent form of autocoitus.

Until then, go fight someone for real, not just with your big mouth.

Jun 25, 2016
Few are aware for example - that in 1975 - the U.S. gave a nod and a wink to President Suharto of Indonesia - to invade E.Timor - and murder 200,000 innocent folks.


On the one hand, you would like to see us all rid ourselves of war, and then on the other hand you excoriate those who could have prevented it... by going to war?

Did I misinterpret what you wrote?

Jun 25, 2016
Da Schneib
And the question then becomes, who sets the standards for the definition of what "clean mental health"


I think that it can also be approached from a policy perspective.
Problem: by whom, exactly?

The IQ of a group is the IQ of the smartest member divided by the number of members.

The general public is obviously not well qualified to choose, so now we've eliminated individuals because of the risk of a bad one, and we've eliminated the public at large. Who is left?

The best of all the bad answers is we elect representatives and hope to get enough sane ones to stop the insane ones from doing anything too awfully stupid, and that hope inevitably fails sometimes.

Churchill said, "...it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…" and I'd have to agree.

Jun 25, 2016
"then you are a fool and a traitor to your country"
--------------------------

I am a Vietnam Vet. Who are you?

I suggest you perform The Cheney, a particularly violent form of autocoitus.

Until then, go fight someone for real, not just with your big mouth.
- gkam

I was born many years after your Vietnam war. Did YOU experience physical combat against your enemy? I doubt it. You were essentially a desk-jockey with a little electrical knowledge and YOUR life was never on the line. Fifty-eight thousand soldiers gave THEIR lives to save YOUR sorry ass, before the Cong ran the US military out of the country. Good thing I was born long after Vietnam, because if I had met you and saw that you weren't much more than a Logistics & Analysis type, I would've kicked your ass and told you to get out to the jungle and fight like a man.

Jun 25, 2016
This article made me think about the Big Bertha Cannon, made by Krupps and used during the First World War.
It had an effective range of twelve and a half kilometers.

Jun 25, 2016
ottosux, you have no idea what I did or went through. The flightline is not a desk.

You would have not kicked anything. All you have is mouth.

I am against war, in case you missed the point. I think you should have had my experiences instead of your imagination.

Yeah, we were "noncombatant" electronics technicians operating the Electronic Battlefield, including the 22 of us who came home dead. I came home in a delirium after challenging what we were doing in that mass-killing of people in their own country. Please do not tell me how brave you are.

Jun 25, 2016
What you did or didn't do in that war IS your business But you DO tend to talk too much about yourself and what you've done, as the case may be. No one wants to hear it anymore, Georgie. It's old; it's stale; it's so yesterday. That's why your get punks like GhostofOtto'sAss, CapnCrotchety and OinkleIra looking for you all the time. Don't you think it's strange that they always seem to wind up in almost every thread you have gone into? They check your profile to see where you are...and then go there.

Jun 25, 2016
And, by the way, I tend to believe that CapnFruitcake is: Morgan REHNBERG of Boulder, Colorado, age 26. He told us once, actually bragged about being in a YouTube video of the weekly series "Universe Today", hosted by Fraser Cain. The only male person in that YouTube that day, besides Fraser Cain, was Morgan Rehnberg

Jun 25, 2016
"And, by the way, I tend to believe that CapnFruitcake is: Morgan REHNBERG"

----------------
Nope. Morgan is heads above Sgt Grumpy. Grumpy thinks one needs a degree saying "Engineer" to do the work of one.

Jun 25, 2016
"President Trump would LOVE to have this."

President Hillary would LOVE to have this.... to give to the Chicoms.... for a suitable donation to her foundation of course. The again the Chicoms probably have enough dirt on her from her illegal email server to get it for free.

Jun 25, 2016
Da Schneib
And the question then becomes, who sets the standards for the definition of what "clean mental health"


I think that it can also be approached from a policy perspective. Few are aware for example - that in 1975 - the U.S. gave a nod and a wink to President Suharto of Indonesia - to invade E.Timor - and murder 200,000 innocent folks. https://chomsky.info/199910__/ ...


No. Chomsky's report is chock full of half-truths, insinuations, and completely incorrect conclusions. I should know...I was in Indonesia at the time. Chomsky was not. I helped plan the invasion. There were NO U.S. advisors in the invasion, or on the island. We were personally targeted by the PRC as we were helping to stop the inflow of PRC agents and material being smuggled into Indonsia through East Timor. Those of us who were there know the REAL story.

Jun 25, 2016
Why not a start - by agreeing not to support mass murderers, and perhaps to try to isolate those who do? Keep the military for primarily defensive purposes - and yes - make it known that we are willing to bite - if provoked. Seems to me that over the past 100 years - western countries have been to complicit in genocides - for some convenience factor.


I think you're conflating two things here: Defensive posture is a global geopolitical goal, not a nation by nation thing. Sometimes there really are bigger fish to fry. I do not think the US should assume the role of global cop/keeper of the peace. That doesn't endear us to anyone.

All that aside, a precision guided weapon that is well suited to ships and threats to shipping is not such a terrible thing. Of course it can be abused, and the track record of the US is hardly perfect. The blame should not be the weapon or its development, but the politicians who use it.

Jun 25, 2016
"And, by the way, I tend to believe that CapnFruitcake is: Morgan REHNBERG"

----------------
Nope. Morgan is heads above Sgt Grumpy. Grumpy thinks one needs a degree saying "Engineer" to do the work of one.
- gkam

LOL Well, if that is what you choose to believe. It's really not MY problem. But I kept the link that Rumpy used that day to announce that he would be in that video and at what time.
I wouldn't be surprised if Morgan Rehnberg is Rumpy. The guy in the video talks like a know-it-all. I also noticed that Fraser Cain appears nervous when talking with Rehnberg. But maybe he wears contact lenses that are irritating. Who knows?

Jun 25, 2016
No. Chomsky's report is chock full of half-truths, insinuations, and completely incorrect conclusions.
That I'll believe, I'm no fan of Chomsky since he denied Srebrenica, but...

We were personally targeted by the PRC as we were helping to stop the inflow of PRC agents and material being smuggled into Indonsia through East Timor. Those of us who were there know the REAL story.
There is ample evidence that the claims of PRC involvement in the independence movement in East Timor in both the Indonesian and Timorese press were a smokescreen by the Suharto government, actually a planned part of their strategy to invade. That you were there and read these false reports in the press makes no difference at all to whether they were true or not.

Jun 25, 2016
I am very impressed with the projectile. But then the article says:

"It turns out that powder guns firing the same hyper-velocity projectiles gets you almost as much as you would get out of the electromag rail gun, and it's something we could do much faster,"


Even at Mach 7.5 it only has a distance range of 100 miles. Why would you need a railgun with all the heavy wiring to fire off a smart projectile for such a short distance?
It needs a lot of work.

Jun 25, 2016
I think you're conflating two things here: Defensive posture is a global geopolitical goal, not a nation by nation thing. Sometimes there really are bigger fish to fry. I do not think the US should assume the role of global cop/keeper of the peace. That doesn't endear us to anyone.

All that aside, a precision guided weapon that is well suited to ships and threats to shipping is not such a terrible thing. Of course it can be abused, and the track record of the US is hardly perfect. The blame should not be the weapon or its development, but the politicians who use it.

- ab3a

I think we need to be concerned that the US Navy would place this new weapon on a ship in the Black Sea, possibly aimed at Sevastopol, Crimea (home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet Naval Base). With such a weapon, we could be at war with Russia within minutes if its deployed for whatever reason. The Russians are antsy as it is, with NATO surrounding Russia's western flank.

Jun 25, 2016
"President Trump would LOVE to have this."

President Hillary would LOVE to have this.... to give to the Chicoms.... for a suitable donation to her foundation of course. The again the Chicoms probably have enough dirt on her from her illegal email server to get it for free.
- tblakely1357

You've got THAT right. She owes her loyalty to those who made her a rich woman and supported her financially in many ways...and now it's almost payback time. Hillary can't back out of her debts to all those foreigners. She might even owe her soul to George Soros.

Jun 25, 2016
Those of us who were there know the REAL story
"Even the C.I.A. has described it as one of the worst mass-murders of the 20th century." -
Thirty Years After the Indonesian Invasion of East Timor, Will the U.S. Be Held Accountable for its Role in the Slaughter?

Jun 25, 2016
"25 megawatts of energy"

I thought this was a science based website.


Pow! Right in the joules...

Jun 25, 2016
F111F
Those of us who were there know the REAL story.
And why were you there? What were you doing that could possibly justify the killing of 200,000 people. Please enlighten us. Alan Nairn was also there - and has written extensively on the subject. I have read his accounts - and heard him speak. No I was not there - but that does not mean that the facts are not the facts. What is the justification for supporting a regime that killed 200,000 people (including training their military, and selling them almost all of their military hardware.) And yes - the U.S. was training the Indonesian military. http://fas.org/as...esia.htm

The U.S. had a DLG...Defense Liaison Group there at the time, coordinating training, sales, exercises, etc. No U.S. personnel were directly involved in the East Timor ops...that was a firm condition imposed by the U.S.
And yes, the PRC were actively seeking regime change in Indonesia, starting with Sukarno.

Jun 25, 2016
Those of us who were there know the REAL story
"Even the C.I.A. has described it as one of the worst mass-murders of the 20th century." -
http://www.democr...invasion

Our role was limited to helping plan the invasion, selling various weapons, and providing training on said weapons. What may or may not have happened afterwards is none of my concern. Frankly such numbers are routinely inflated well beyond credulity..

Jun 25, 2016
There is ample evidence that the claims of PRC involvement in the independence movement in East Timor in both the Indonesian and Timorese press were a smokescreen by the Suharto government, actually a planned part of their strategy to invade. That you were there and read these false reports in the press makes no difference at all to whether they were true or not.

Once again...I was there. I lived it, breathed it for three years. The PRC threat was real, they wanted regime change. In 1975 Suharto was still a national hero from the attempted PRC takeover, he didn't need any false flag events. East Timor was a conduit for agents and arms because Portugal just left them stranded. Indonesia had every right to shut down that activity and secure their nation.

Jun 25, 2016
Sorry, man, the US national archives released later, and data released by the Indonesian government after Suharto was overthrown, tell the real story.

I'm sure you believe what you believe. I'm also sure you're incorrect, based on the evidence.

Jun 26, 2016
Why doesn't somebody simply develop an explosive electric powder?

HTK
Jun 26, 2016
that one day could transform how wars are fought
Seems we will never grow up. Still wondering about how future wars will be fought. How we will kill each other more efficiently. Hiroshima was pretty efficient - but no doubt we can do better. Sigh...


Hiroshima... a country who still tries to rewrite history and hide the facts of all the war crimes. I say, they deserved it fully.

Jun 26, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Jun 26, 2016
Wonderful. Another neverwas resents what others have done.

Jun 26, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Jun 26, 2016
Let's start with the Electric Power Research Institute. I wrote much of the national course in Power Quality for the utility industry and presented it for a decade all over the country. Do you really want a list of the utilities? It is too big.

But you can go to 7X24Exchange and look me up with them, although my last lecture was ten years ago. My reviews will piss you off.

I did not "iconify" myself as a wizard, it was done by one of my customers, after I solved a problem they could not. Wanna talk about those?

Jun 26, 2016
Has anybody considered what the large collapsing fields do to other sensitive equipment on the ship? Has it been tried on a ship yet?

Jun 26, 2016
gkam 1 /5 (1) 7 minutes ago
Let's start with the Electric Power Research Institute. I wrote much of the national course in Power Quality


Does anyone else hear the horses whinnying a la Young Frankenstein every time George starts off?

Open challenge. Will one person *anywhere* on the internet state that they appreciate reading George's ego driven shrift?

Jun 26, 2016
Has anybody considered what the large collapsing fields do to other sensitive equipment on the ship? Has it been tried on a ship yet?


Naa, all those engineers and professionals and scientists probably never crossed the minds. But maybe they don't have a guy on the staffs who has a silly looking pointy cap (with the stars and moons on him) to wear around the lab, eh?

Jun 26, 2016
It ain't ego-driven, it is experience-driven, but I happen to be on a forum where none of you have any, so I guess I should have expected the resentment.

Those of you who have done nothing in these fields act like babies when others know more than you do. Grow up and get over it.

Jun 26, 2016
Open challenge. Will one person *anywhere* on the internet state that they appreciate reading George's ego driven shrift?


Does Obama's-Socks/Otto's-Socks-Skippy count? He said he does. That's about it though. Well until yesterday anyway, today he is probably mad because glam-Skippy called him an ignorant, no experienced, neverwas goober.

There are two puppets glam-Skippy tried to use to lend him self some support, but they don't count because he got mixed up using them and had to sudden quietly retire them before anybody noticed (am I the only one who noticed that back on the radio foolishment he was making such of a fool of him self on?.

Jun 26, 2016
Electromagnetic cannon. Not your personal fixations.

Take them back to Twitter.

Jun 26, 2016
"This article made me think about the Big Bertha Cannon, made by Krupps and used during the First World War."

https://en.wikipe...aris_Gun
Snag with the 'Paris Guns' was their barrels wore very, very quickly. Their shells were graduated in diameter to allow for this, and barrels had to be replaced and re-made after sixty-something firings...

Snag with a rail-gun is the arcing electrodes wear out so fast. So,unless you can provide a 'sacrificial' face, you must 'inch' them forwards like sprung commutator 'brushes' after each shot *and* have a way to replace them en-masse after each engagement...

As I understand it, pure-magnetic coil-guns are still too bulky to consider fitting on a ship-- Unless you can aim the ship !!

Jun 26, 2016
Why wars are fought? Greed... the alpha monkey syndrome, as it had been for the last blah
Guess all you want. Add a liberal amount of misanthropy and pretend that you think you know what you are talking about. Claim that we are vicious animals but ignore our biology.

Wars happen for only one reason: our tropical reproductive rate has not had time to adjust to the fact that we have eliminated all the natural attritive elements which created it in the first place.

This makes war and revolution absolutely unavoidable.

The reason that this is not blindingly obvious is because Leaders learned a long time ago that spontaneous conflict can destroy civilization. So they began Planning and Staging it so that it would be a constructive, and not destructive, endeavor.

If you allow that this could be possible and then study history with it in mind then it does become obvious.

We have entered an era where war is no longer inevitable. We can now control the birthrate.
Cont>

Jun 26, 2016
Leaders also realized that the only way to protect civilization from being overwhelmed by the uncontrolled chaos surrounding it was to maximize the repro rate of its citizens while maintaining internal stability.

And so They modified religion for this Purpose. And because their religions were artificial like their designer wars and revolutions, their effects could be mitigated when their purpose was served.

The world wars eliminated the religion-dominated Eurasian cultures which would have prevented the ONE BILLION ABORTIONS that followed, and the additional billion or so which never happened, due to family planning initiatives worldwide.

The Effort is ongoing. We will soon be able to modify the birthrate directly. Genetically. Remotely.

Anyone read Dan brown's Inferno? He wrote the book because the potential was obvious.

People think that pandemics which kill is a Solution, but those which Modify can be far more beneficial.

Jun 26, 2016
@ab3a It is perverse, but maintaining inexpensive, high accuracy, powerful weapons is necessary.
Necessary to launder those trillions of narcodollars and keep the imploding USA empire afloat. But no worries you can pay for the R&D, then everyone can get the blueprints off Hilary's "What difference does it make?" hotmail account

Jun 26, 2016
WE eliminated the religion-dominated Eurasian cultures which would have prevented the ONE BILLION ABORTIONS that followed, and the additional billion or so which never happened, due to family planning initiatives worldwide. I wasn't aborted which is why you people get to read everything I put out for you here in PO.

The Effort is ongoing. WE will soon be able to modify the birthrate directly. Genetically. Remotely. I never wanted children and I hate women because they smell like fish and they get fat. Some women smoke cigarettes like my mama did, which is why I hated her guts. That is also why I never wanted a woman for sex. They made fun of my tiny wang. I only want to go up to the fat ones and make oink oink noises like the pig that I am. I HATE MANKIND.

- Ghostofotto'sPileofPoop

Don't worry, GhostofOtto (Skorzeny). You will get what you deserve. Now dry your tears and take your meds.


Jun 26, 2016
@ab3a It is perverse, but maintaining inexpensive, high accuracy, powerful weapons is necessary.
Necessary to launder those trillions of narcodollars and keep the imploding USA empire afloat. But no worries you can pay for the R&D, then everyone can get the blueprints off Hilary's "What difference does it make?" hotmail account
- kochevnik

For certain, the US will implode IF a Democrat is elected POTUS. Trump is the only man who can turn the US economy around by convincing Congress to treat the US economy AS A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, and not as a chickenshit outfit bowing, scraping, and kissing ass to appease foreign governments like Saudi Arabia and Israel as Obama has been doing for the past 7 1/2 years. Trump will be good for Russia and her people, and most of all for American citizens. He will close and secure our southern borders to maintain US sovereignty, similar to BREXIT will do to maintain UK sovereignty.


Jun 26, 2016
gosh, otto_sux, I appreciate that you have the guts to stand up and expose your ignorance of the differences between government and business.

Jun 26, 2016
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Jun 26, 2016
...bowing, scraping, and kissing ass to appease foreign governments like Saudi Arabia and Israel as Obama has been doing for the past 7 1/2 years.

I think the Bushes might have been far more appeasing (to the Saudis at least) than Obama.
They had major family money involvement going on...

Jun 26, 2016
Does anyone else hear the horses whinnying a la Young Frankenstein every time George starts off?

The horses whinnied when someone said "Bluecher" (which means glue in German).
Does Kamboroff mean glue in another language?

Jun 27, 2016
...bowing, scraping, and kissing ass to appease foreign governments like Saudi Arabia and Israel as Obama has been doing for the past 7 1/2 years.

I think the Bushes might have been far more appeasing (to the Saudis at least) than Obama.
They had major family money involvement going on...
- Whyd
We still get most of our oil from the Saudis, unless that's been changed. That family invested well. Don't be jealous. Bushy never bowed to the Saudi King or the Prince. But Obama? Wellllll Obama is well known for bending over at the waist at Japanese and Saudi dignitaries. If they offered a foot, I'm sure that he would've kissed it. Remember when Obama was in England for the Queen's Jubilee? He just kept on yapping even while the orchestra was playing the British National Anthem and everyone had stood up. The "great orator" just never understood protocol while in a foreign country. Many Americans expressed embarrassment over that incident. I doubt that he understood it.

Jun 27, 2016
The horses whinnied when someone said "Bluecher" (which means glue in German).

Erm..no, it doesn't

Bluecher was a german general known for his aggressive tactics.

Glue in german is "Kleb" or" Kleber"

Jun 27, 2016
Does anyone else hear the horses whinnying a la Young Frankenstein every time George starts off?

The horses whinnied when someone said "Bluecher" (which means glue in German).
Does Kamboroff mean glue in another language?
- Why don't you ask Georgie Porgie. He is a walking encyclopedia and makes sure everyone knows it.

Jun 27, 2016
Nope. Just a guy with a lifetime of experience.

Apparently it is something you will never have. It takes attitude and character.

Jun 27, 2016
And as far as Obama "bowing and scraping" to Israel, that looks like a blatant lie considering the Iran nuclear deal and our position on Israel's illegitimate settlements.

Jun 27, 2016
just a guy with a lifetime of experience.

Apparently it is something you will never have. It takes attitude and character.
"Hare writes:

"What makes psychopaths different from all others is the remarkable ease with which they lie, the pervasiveness of their deception, and the callousness with which they carry it out.

"But there is something else about the speech of psychopaths that is equally puzzling: their frequent use of contradictory and logically inconsistent statements that usually escape detection. Recent research on the language of psychopaths provides us with some important clues to this puzzle, as well as to the uncanny ability psychopaths have to move words - and people- around so easily."

"A woman with a staggering record of fraud, deceit, lies, and broken promises concluded a letter to the parole board with, "I've let a lot of people down… One is only as good as her reputation and name. My word is as good as gold.""

-The real george kamburoff.

Jun 27, 2016
The horses whinnied when someone said "Bluecher" (which means glue in German).

Erm..no, it doesn't

Bluecher was a german general known for his aggressive tactics.

Glue in german is "Kleb" or" Kleber"

Somebody should tell Mel Brook's he was mistaken, then...:-)

Jun 27, 2016
- Whyd
We still get most of our oil from the Saudis, unless that's been changed. That family invested well. Don't be jealous. Bushy never bowed to the Saudi King or the Prince.

NO, just made sure he got blowjobs...

"American does not get most of its oil from the Middle East. In fact, we only get 12 percent of our supplies from the Persian Gulf. And Saudi Arabia provides only 8 percent. As the pie chart illustrates, almost 75 percent of our oil now comes from North and South America."

http://www.realcl...533.html


A little research before you make a statement, please...

Jun 27, 2016
Phys1 5 /5 (4) 20 hours ago
There should be a trial at the ICC in the The Hague, but if a US citizen were to appear there the US would invade the Netherlands.
https://en.wikipe...tion_Act


I wonder how many honestly noticed that at the time it went through the Congress? No one seemed to much care with all the chest thumping at the time. Even liberals treated it as some kind of conspiracy theory. "Uh, it's a Congressional Bill. Look it up."

But given that it was passed immediately before the invasion of Iraq, now that we know the WMD argument was Trumped up, doesn't that amount to premeditation? Then, when Bradley gunners are told to shoot unarmed, surrendering, fully uniformed soldiers, how is that not equivalent in US justice to murder in the first degree?

"The service". Give me a break. I'm not the Godfather.

Jun 27, 2016
GhastlyOtto preached:
ONE BILLION ABORTIONS that followed


Yes!!! Here's to the next one billion!

Jun 27, 2016
Otto_Szucks 1 / 5 (6) 23 hours ago

For certain, the US will implode IF a Democrat is elected POTUS


Another redneck scared that their trailer will be towed.

Jun 28, 2016
Must be tough for some of these posters. To have an IQ so low you can't stick to the point of the story.

Jun 29, 2016
Must be tough for some of these posters. To have an IQ so low you can't stick to the point of the story.

which was all about the new railgun and the fantastic projectile...some people just don't have that all important stick-to-itiveness. That is, unless it was about sports, one billion abortions, Hollywood and degenerate TV shows. All Liberal/Socialist causes - except for the sports.

Jun 29, 2016
We is talkin' railguns here, otto s, not your hate for progressives and the future.

Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
antianti,
Why do I have to apologize for having actual experience in the fields we discuss? The "war stories" are justification for my position. If you had experience in the field, wouldn't you explain it to those without any??


Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
This is not a forum nor a thread about languages. If it were, we would listen intently. I learned a lot from my grandfather who spoke many, and learned the cultures behind them, and would have given you respect.

Take your own ego problems to your own therapist.

"uncontrollably out of control"?? Invent that yourself? Or just imagine it?

Jun 29, 2016
Most of us have that experience, but we also have common courtesy and know how to say something without being insufferably ego driven. Why don't I mention to the guy next to me in the pub how many languages I speak? I worked hard to learn them.


So, you found a way to tell us, otherwise unprovoked, that you speak a few languages?

It's not "insufferably ego driven" to troll the forum with a dozen screen-names lecturing posters on how to say things without saying them or yourself actually saying anything original? I don't think you're very bright my boy,.... and definitely a rude hypocrite troll and "git" who adds nothing of substance here. Who elected this idiot as thought police?

But you may be the tallest midget.


Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
Where did you get that ridiculous phrase? Are you asserting I used it?

And talking about my grandfather was not bragging. It was an explanation of appreciation for learning from others, including you in the right forum.


Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
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Jun 29, 2016
"So, who's Len Gould, George?"
----------------------------

Don't know.

Who are you? Why do you hide your identity?

Am I the only real one here?

Let's get back to whether we want to continue to dump our resources into weapons.

Jun 29, 2016
Am I the only real one here?


Maybe you should ask one of those doctors that are treating you for those mental conditions you told us about. (Here's your chance to tell us all about you being the only survivor and not knowing why.)

Jun 29, 2016
Who are you? Why do you hide your identity?

Am I the only real one here?

Let's get back to whether we want to continue to dump our resources into weapons.
Naw lets stick with george kamburoff the lying cheating psychopath who just has to make every thread about him.

Jun 29, 2016
"Maybe you should ask one of those doctors that are treating you for those mental conditions you told us about."
--------------------------------

Real class, Ira.

Real class.

Make fun of a war veteran using the VA.

Go ahead, you stay-at-home cowards.

Who are you again? You can't even stand up to your own words.

Real class.

Jun 29, 2016
Yeah, Ira, I came home from the war in a delirium. Isn't that funny!

Yeah, they told my parents I would not come out of it, but I did. They told me I was terminal but am still here.

Is it funny I spent eleven weeks in a terminal ward while the others died? Do you find injured veterans to be funny?

Most of my hearing is gone from the noise of a flightline, isn't that hilarious? My equilibrium is gone, too. HAHAHA?

I do not understand the shallowness of you folk.

Jun 29, 2016
Yeah, Ira, I came home from the war in a delirium.
And a lot of peoples who were in a real war come home, just fine. If being the Air Force radio tech riding around Thailand on a motor scooter give you deliriums, I wonder what you would have been like if you had landed in the real war with the Army or Marines?

Now maybe it was hard on you and maybe it is the mental conditions that you had before you joined up, I do not know. But what I do know, is you say some silly things to try to set the stage,,,

I came home in a delirium because I was the only survivor and didn't know why.


"the only survivor" the interweb place you tell us to go to put the lie to that.

Cher, that sort of thing only happened in a very few big battles. Did something like that happen, yeah, but not to you, not in Thailand riding around on a motor scooter.

I've got my own theory about what happened to you, you don't want to hear it though, I promise,, so don't ask.

Jun 29, 2016
Oh, you cypress stump, in your need to find fault, you once again get it wrong. I expected better, even from a boat-boy in brown water.

Yeah, in my group of blood cancer patients, I am the only one left. They all died right away, it being in the 1960s.

What is it with you that makes you so needy of having to "win", even after you have lost the argument? What is missing in your character that drives you to do that?

Are you going to make fun of the fact I was injured in the service to my country again?

Hmmm? Ain't that a knee-slapper?

This thread is about whether we want to pound money down the weapons rat-hole. Stick to it.

Jun 29, 2016
"IGNORANT GIT! Most of us have that experience, but we also have common courtesy and know how to say something without being insufferably ego driven." - TrollCondensate

That about covers it for you, gkam. Whether or nor not you were injured, diseased, or just had the clap, noone wants to hear about it.

I can respect the sacrifices made by the veterans, but still have the opinion that some are great guys, and some are real shits. Just like the real world.

By the way, we have figured out that when you finally want to go back to the topic, it means that you are surrendering, and must flee.

Jun 29, 2016
All Liberal/Socialist causes - except for the sports.
Ahhh - got it - it is the 'liberal socialists' who cannot stay on topic. This post would not have come from you then - right?
We still get most of our oil from the Saudis, unless that's been changed. That family invested well. Don't be jealous. Bushy never bowed to the Saudi King or the Prince. But Obama? Wellllll Obama is well known for bending over at the waist at Japanese and Saudi dignitaries. If they offered a foot, I'm sure that he would've kissed it. Remember when Obama was in England for the Queen's Jubilee? He just kept on yapping even while the orchestra was playing the British National Anthem and everyone had stood up. The "great orator" just never understood protocol while in a foreign country. Many Americans expressed embarrassment over that incident. I doubt that he understood it.
- green onions
That was in answer to a comment by kochevnik that you didn't bother to read.

Jun 29, 2016
We is talkin' railguns here, otto sucks, not your hate for progressives and the future.
- gkam

Where did you get the idea that I "hate" progs and the future? I don't. Observation is what I do, and I don't see that anything good will come of what Liberal/Socialist/Progs want the US to become. The future will not be a good one for Americans if the Lib/Soc/Progs get enough power. They will do everything to eliminate the Second Amendment of the US Constitution, and possibly the First Amendment regarding Freedom of Speech. Political Correctness is already here, and anyone can be sued or arrested for certain verbal transgressions against certain elements of American society. The US is becoming like Europe where Socialism has allowed millions of Middle Easterners to get on the dole in European nations. Europeans who fight back are ostracized by their politicians.
Merkel has done what Hitler could not accomplish. But that's off topic LOL

Jun 29, 2016
And as far as Obama "bowing and scraping" to Israel, that looks like a blatant lie considering the Iran nuclear deal and our position on Israel's illegitimate settlements.
- Da Schnozola

And yet, the US gives/donates how much money to Israel free-and-clear PER ANNUM?
And Israel will be acquiring about 47 (all-told) F-35A fighter jets from Lockheed Martin starting with the first two in December, PLUS about 11 F-35B jets.
And how does Israel PAY for these war machines? Each year Israel gets in excess of ONE BILLION US$$ from American taxpayers through Washington, DC. So, essentially, companies like Lockheed Martin are getting paid for the jets WITH OUR OWN MONEY.
This has been going on for decades. Israel leeches off American taxpayers; Israel buys American weapons, planes; Israel pay for it with the dollars received from American taxpayers. Government is only the "middle-man" - the conduit for this thievery by Israel. Did Obama put a stop to this?
Of course not.

Jun 30, 2016
The Second Amendment? The very first phrase pus it all into perspective.

What is that phrase?

Jun 30, 2016
@green onions
I was referring to kochevnik's comment, which you didn't read, NOT the WHOLE thread. When someone makes a comment which I am inclined to answer, I will make my opinion known, and then attempt to get back on track re the topic.

@gkam
As I recall, you don't like gun ownership for self-defense and to protect one's family and/or neighbors...which is what the Second Amendment's purpose was back in the 1700s. Back in those days, guns were necessary to fight off hostile Indians and renegade Whites, as well as dangerous wildlife. In modern times, there are still hostiles and renegades of all races and kinds, and they are just as likely to kill innocent people and their families and neighbors as the ones back in the early days. But YOU don't like guns and YOU don't want anyone to have them for protection. Europeans who are forbidden to own guns get blown up by suicide bombers or killed with knives and other weapons. Americans are able to defend themselves.

Jun 30, 2016
(cont'd)
The key word is "DEFENCE". Defense against any sort of deadly and hostile aggression by one or more perpetrators is the reason for the Second Amendment. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the majority of killings with guns have taken place in "GUN-FREE ZONES" such as California, New York, Connecticut and any other state where gun ownership is against the law.
Anyone with criminal intent will always find a way to acquire a gun illegally. Even the Obama regime has been accused of "gun-running". Remember "Fast and Furious"?

ON TOPIC: The railgun technology only serves to make the Russians that much more apprehensive, which makes the R.F. double their efforts to improve their own weapons technology. The major difference between Russia and the US is that the Russians love their people, while Obama's regime hates Americans.
The money would have been better spent on more sophisticated intelligence acquisition to PREVENT hostilities from ANY source.

Jun 30, 2016
"But YOU don't like guns and YOU don't want anyone to have them for protection. "
------------------------------

"Protection"? I do not trust you with a weapon. The rest of us do not need them to be equal to you, why do you need them to be equal to us?

Of what are you so SCARED?

Jun 30, 2016
"But YOU don't like guns and YOU don't want anyone to have them for protection. "
------------------------------

"Protection"? I do not trust you with a weapon. The rest of us do not need them to be equal to you, why do you need them to be equal to us?

Of what are you so SCARED?
George kamburoff is not too scared to lie about his service record in a public forum.
http://phys.org/n...ity.html

George - have you googled yourself lately?

"What makes psychopaths different from all others is the remarkable ease with which they lie, the pervasiveness of their deception, and the callousness with which they carry it out."

"Blair has shown that activation of the amygdala in normal volunteers is involved in responding to the sadness and anger of others, and he hypothesizes that amygdala dysfunction could explain the lack of FEAR and empathy in psychopaths."

Jul 01, 2016
"But YOU don't like guns and YOU don't want anyone to have them for protection. "
------------------------------

"Protection"? I do not trust you with a weapon. The rest of us do not need them to be equal to you, why do you need them to be equal to us?

Of what are you so SCARED?
- gkam aka glam (according to Ira)

LOL Since you are not acquainted with me in any way offline, your distrust of my ownership of guns for protection and defense is of no concern to me. I do not own guns to be equal to YOU; I own guns to be equal to those who use guns for the express deadly purpose of committing crimes against me, my family, my neighbors, and anyone whose life I feel is being threatened.
Should such a person or persons with deadly criminal intent bring about a situation of which I would feel that my life, or the lives of my family and those of my neighbors are severely threatened, I will have the means for protection/defense of me and mine at the ready. What do YOU have?

Jul 01, 2016
(cont'd)
Oh, that's right. You don't like guns and you don't want anyone else to have them. So if a criminal is armed with a gun or knife to kill you or members of your family, you will dial 911 and wait for the police to arrive to save your scrawny neck. By the time the cops have arrived; that is, IF you even get the chance to call them, your throat would be slit or you would have a bullet hole in your head.

Your family might also have gone to their final reward. Have you noticed that your California politicians are also against people owning guns legally for protection, but those same pols have bodyguards and Secret Service agents with guns to protect them? A bit of irony, isn't it.
I don't have to be "scared", but if I were YOU, I would be.

Jul 01, 2016
that one day could transform how wars are fought
Seems we will never grow up. Still wondering about how future wars will be fought. How we will kill each other more efficiently. Hiroshima was pretty efficient - but no doubt we can do better. Sigh...
- green onions

That was your first post - OFF TOPIC

Otto
When someone makes a comment which I am inclined to answer, I will make my opinion known, and then attempt to get back on track re the topic.
Right - just pointing out your cognitive dissonance - in reprimanding commenters for going off topic. If you don't approve of going off topic - and want to whine about it - then don't do it.
- green onions

That was your last post - also OFF TOPIC
The topic was the new railgun. It appears that it's YOU who has a cognitive dissonance where you are unable to remember becoming OFF TOPIC. I made a response to a comment from kochevnik. Try to accept that.

Jul 01, 2016
"What do YOU have?"
-----------------------------

No fear.

Jul 01, 2016
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Jul 01, 2016
"What do YOU have?"
-----------------------------

No fear.
Thats a classic symptom of your disease.

"So far, the dominant understanding of psychopathy is that they basically lack emotions such as fear or distress. If you clap your hands behind someone's back, she will startle, and you can measure how her palms get sweaty. If you do that with individuals with psychopathy, experiments have shown that their response is flattened."

"...amygdala dysfunction could explain the lack of fear and empathy in psychopaths."

-Lack of fear is not something you should be proud of george. It means your brain is severely damaged.

And obviously for you its debilitating because you have exhibited no fear of lying and making up facts which explains the 12+++ jobs you lost and that 10 yr idle period at the end of your career which you refer to as 'consulting'.

Aug 16, 2016
Otto_Szucks 1.4 /5 (9) Jul 01, 2016

that one day could transform how wars are fought

Seems we will never grow up. Still wondering about how future wars will be fought. How we will kill each other more efficiently. Hiroshima was pretty efficient - but no doubt we can do better. Sigh...

- green onions

That was your first post - OFF TOPIC


Wrong again. But it was your last post. Posting/voting privs removed. Now bugger off.

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