Theorists propose a new method to probe the beginning of the universe

January 25, 2016, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
New research suggests that oscillating heavy particles generated "clocks" in the primordial universe that could be used to determine what produced the initial conditions that gave rise to the universe. Credit: Yi Wang and Xingang Chen

How did the universe begin? And what came before the Big Bang? Cosmologists have asked these questions ever since discovering that our universe is expanding. The answers aren't easy to determine. The beginning of the cosmos is cloaked and hidden from the view of our most powerful telescopes. Yet observations we make today can give clues to the universe's origin. New research suggests a novel way of probing the beginning of space and time to determine which of the competing theories is correct.

The most widely accepted theoretical scenario for the beginning of the universe is inflation, which predicts that the universe expanded at an exponential rate in the first fleeting fraction of a second. However a number of alternative scenarios have been suggested, some predicting a Big Crunch preceding the Big Bang. The trick is to find measurements that can distinguish between these scenarios.

One promising source of information about the universe's beginning is the (CMB) - the remnant glow of the Big Bang that pervades all of space. This glow appears smooth and uniform at first, but upon closer inspection varies by small amounts. Those variations come from quantum fluctuations present at the birth of the universe that have been stretched as the universe expanded.

The conventional approach to distinguish different scenarios searches for possible traces of , generated during the , in the CMB. "Here we are proposing a new approach that could allow us to directly reveal the of the primordial universe from astrophysical signals. This history is unique to each scenario," says coauthor Xingang Chen of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) and the University of Texas at Dallas.

While previous experimental and theoretical studies give clues to spatial variations in the primordial universe, they lack the key element of time. Without a ticking clock to measure the passage of time, the evolutionary history of the primordial universe can't be determined unambiguously.

"Imagine you took the frames of a movie and stacked them all randomly on top of each other. If those frames aren't labeled with a time, you can't put them in order. Did the primordial universe crunch or bang? If you don't know whether the movie is running forward or in reverse, you can't tell the difference," explains Chen.

This new research suggests that such "clocks" exist, and can be used to measure the passage of time at the universe's birth. These clocks take the form of , which are an expected product of the "theory of everything" that will unite quantum mechanics and general relativity. They are named the "primordial standard clocks."

Subatomic heavy particles will behave like a pendulum, oscillating back and forth in a universal and standard way. They can even do so quantum-mechanically without being pushed initially. Those oscillations or quantum wiggles would act as clock ticks, and add time labels to the stack of movie frames in our analogy.

"Ticks of these primordial standard clocks would create corresponding wiggles in measurements of the cosmic microwave background, whose pattern is unique for each scenario," says coauthor Yi Wang of The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology. However, current data isn't accurate enough to spot such small variations.

HKUST-Harvard Scientists discovered ways to clock the beginning of the Universe
It is well accepted that sinusoidal waves are produced in the primordial universe, through an event called "horizon crossing". At "horizon crossing", those waves got frozen and no longer propagating. In the figure, the horizon is represented by the gray vertical lines. Once the wavelength of the fluctuation become greater than the size of the horizon (the distance between the two vertical lines), the mode is frozen, which eventually become the seed of the large scale structure. Credit: Department of Physics, HKUST

Ongoing experiments should greatly improve the situation. Projects like CfA's BICEP3 and Keck Array, and many other related experiments worldwide, will gather exquisitely precise CMB data at the same time as they are searching for gravitational waves. If the wiggles from the primordial standard clocks are strong enough, experiments should find them in the next decade. Supporting evidence could come from other lines of investigation, like maps of the large-scale structure of the universe including galaxies and cosmic hydrogen.

HKUST-Harvard Scientists discovered ways to clock the beginning of the Universe
The massive fields oscillate quantum mechanically and have their intrinsic frequencies. From observing the oscillation of the massive fields, we are able to reconstruct the time when the fluctuations are created in the primordial universe, and thus the expansion history of the primordial universe. Credit: Department of Physics, HKUST

And since the primordial standard clocks would be a component of the "theory of everything," finding them would also provide evidence for physics beyond the Standard Model at an energy scale inaccessible to colliders on the ground.

This research is detailed in a paper by Xingang Chen and Mohammad Hossein Namjoo (CfA/UT Dallas) and Yi Wang (The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology). It has been accepted for publication in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics and is available online.

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gkam
1.8 / 5 (30) Jan 25, 2016
We are 70% blind, but we think we can figure out the Universe while stuck in our pathetic three/four dimensions? We cannot get a clue until we look into the effects on us of the six dimensions we cannot detect at present.
Whydening Gyre
4.4 / 5 (20) Jan 25, 2016
Ahh... another profound statement...
too bad it is UNfounded...
Whydening Gyre
4.5 / 5 (24) Jan 25, 2016
We are 70% blind, but we think we can figure out the Universe while stuck in our pathetic three/four dimensions? We cannot get a clue until we look into the effects on us of the six dimensions we cannot detect at present.

a good "clue" would be not to assume other dimensions in the first place...
HippyPoet
2.8 / 5 (13) Jan 25, 2016
This is pretty interesting. To those saying this is unfounded, they would be wrong. It is a rather ingenious application of the atomic clock concept.
gkam
1.5 / 5 (22) Jan 25, 2016
I never figured WG to be ignorant of String Theory.
wduckss
2.2 / 5 (10) Jan 25, 2016
"The most widely accepted scenario for the theoretical beginning of the universe is .."

Democracy or science, the question is now.

Creating is every day, but we look to the imagination rather than evidence. At the Earth falls 70 to 140 tons of cosmic material ... (Wiki)

http://www.svemir...html#12b (What are the dimensions of destruction and creation in the Universe? ..)
matt_s
3.7 / 5 (18) Jan 25, 2016
I doubt he's ignorant of it gkam, he just doesn't think it's very relevant at the moment.
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (18) Jan 25, 2016
I never figured WG to be ignorant of String Theory.

I doubt he's ignorant of it gkam, he just doesn't think it's very relevant at the moment

Thank you, Matt.

What we are blind to, G, is 70% of stuff in our first 4 dimensions.

Oh... and it's String THEORY. Most physicists are aware it's out there as that - and even admit it's possibly as a decent candidate - but do not subscribe to it... There's a lot of patches it needs to connect the dots...
baudrunner
1.4 / 5 (9) Jan 25, 2016
Did the primordial universe crunch or bang?
Why crunch or bang? Neither are very compelling scenarios in this expanding universe. A bang is a finite event, and finite events yield finite products, so we rule that out, because the universe is infinite in its potential scope (more on this later). Crunch? We have no reason to assume that the universe collapses, explodes and repeats. That's just an oddball notion.

In my view, it is far more practical to assume that the beginning is continuing at the periphery to create space-time and matter. It is a boundary that is infinitely expanding and unreachable. Most of the light in this universe will never reach this layer of the expanse. It is a form of the inflationary theory, and I like it.
Old_C_Code
2.9 / 5 (12) Jan 25, 2016
Observations indicate the universe is probably near infinite. The universe only needs a beginning if your religion says there is a beginning.
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (16) Jan 25, 2016
This is pretty interesting. To those saying this is unfounded, they would be wrong. It is a rather ingenious application of the atomic clock concept.

HP,
Was referring to Gkams comment being unfounded.
BTW, G. String theory postulates SEVEN more dimensions beyond our 4. not six.
met a more fishes
2.3 / 5 (6) Jan 25, 2016
is a "bang" finite if it is an infinite impulse (delta function i think?)

the end and beginning of the universe are the same event. Time is simultaneously moving forward and backwards.
gkam
1.1 / 5 (17) Jan 25, 2016
Well, gosh WG, you were so darn fast to refute whatever you thought I said, I just assumed you had Absolute Truth.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (15) Jan 25, 2016
Well, gosh WG, you were so darn fast to refute whatever you thought I said, I just assumed you had Absolute Truth.

Snarky.
It shows your defense mechanism.
Could be that you are in a relationship that you feel repressed in.
NO one has Absolute truth...
Nanook
1.9 / 5 (9) Jan 25, 2016
Re: String Theory.. As Richard Feynman so eloquently put it, "Not even wrong."
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Jan 25, 2016
I won't debate Feynman, even if he's dead.

But I will wait and see.

Whydening Gyre
4.9 / 5 (16) Jan 25, 2016
Observations indicate the universe is probably near infinite. The universe only needs a beginning if your religion says there is a beginning.

Beginning and ends only apply if you work with straight lines...
Robert_D
5 / 5 (11) Jan 25, 2016
Actually it was Wolfgang Pauli who said "Not even wrong". https://en.wikipe...en_wrong
vidyunmaya
1 / 5 (7) Jan 25, 2016
sub; Think Tanks -cosmos Wisdom-cosmology Digest-need : conversations and Dialogues
Welcome trend -think tanks- rational thinking must have a reference frame index for better wisom
to move out of chaos,anarchy and confusion prevailing today among cosmologists.
Water pebbles to Galactic Pebbles need dimensional change in perspective.Flow-fields aligned to Nature-philosophy.
see my research paper presented at Space Telescope scence institute Symposium-2003-available at www [dot]scribd [dot]com-doc-2152-Cosmic-Pot-Universe-2003
vidyunmaya
Jan 25, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (11) Jan 26, 2016
Actually it was Wolfgang Pauli who said "Not even wrong". https://en.wikipe...en_wrong

Regardless, Feynman was not a fan...

And - is vidyunmaya related to betterexists, by any chance...?
bluehigh
3.4 / 5 (9) Jan 26, 2016
A length of string has two ends. You tie the ends together.
rrrander
1.9 / 5 (9) Jan 26, 2016
Well, some say physics to be proven requires that observation confirm theory. But why let that bother you? Global warmers don't with their crackpot theories, in-fact they demand you believe, or else. But, so far, the math looks good and given it's going to be very difficult to confirm this observationally, we just have to wait and keep refining the math.
wduckss
3 / 5 (6) Jan 26, 2016
I doubt he's ignorant of it gkam, he just doesn't think it's very relevant at the moment.


Empty conversations are important? Why comment when is copied from other papers? What's new in old texts?
Why read authors when we have advocates?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (12) Jan 26, 2016
A length of string has two ends. You tie the ends together.

Scotch tape works, too...
I like loops...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (12) Jan 26, 2016
I doubt he's ignorant of it gkam, he just doesn't think it's very relevant at the moment.


Empty conversations are important? Why comment when is copied from other papers? What's new in old texts?
Why read authors when we have advocates?

Hunh?!?
Gonna have to explain that one to me, ducky...
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.7 / 5 (15) Jan 26, 2016
So like the inflation field particle (who quickly decayed after inflation stopped) oscillations left their imprint in the CMB, other heavy fields would do too. Specifically in the bipartite spectrum of the CMB.

Pros: From a quick browsing the paper seems good.

Cons: Possibly too weak signal. From the paper:

"As we can see, the amplitude of the clock signals spans a wide range and is very model dependent. While in many cases the signals are small, some of them, including some natural ones in the supergravity model-building, may fall into the observable ranges of the CMB, LSS, and 21 cm experiments."

Exciting possibility anyway. Let's go find out!
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.7 / 5 (13) Jan 26, 2016
Much of the thread seems irrelevant. BTW, I have reported the self promoting EU crank's comments. I hope others do too.

FWIW, then:

@OCC: "The universe only needs a beginning if your religion says there is a beginning."

As skeptics ask of religionists, how did 'nothing' come from everything as you go back in time? Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence!

@baudrunner: "Why crunch or bang? Neither are very compelling scenarios".

Both are so compelling scenarios that either _had_ to happen, a FRW universe has to expand or possibly shrink (except ours didn't). Cosmology 101.

As for the rest you propose a model where the universe is neither homogeneous nor isotropic, which is unnecessarily complex but more importantly a non-starter with today's observations.

[tbctd]
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.7 / 5 (13) Jan 26, 2016
[ctd]

@mamf: "is a "bang" finite"?

Yes, the Hot Big Bang is finite, and inflation before that _had_ to have an energy density 3 orders of magnitude less than Planck scale energy density, as seen from CMB constraints. [See the latest papers in the Planck legacy archives; easy enough to google and quite readable if you are interested in a few observations - the whole archive is *massive*...]

@Nanook: "Not even wrong."

That refers to untestable theories, as I remember it. String theory has passed 3 tests (consistency with other physics, predicted flux tubes before QCD did, predicts BH entropy).

However, it hasn't made much unique predictions (see flux tubes) to test yet. It is correct enough, but is it useful besides physics modeling of exotic physics (used to model quark-gluon plasmas, say)?
Colbourne
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 26, 2016
The way to understand the universe is to try to view it from outside.
To answer the question why there is SOMETHING rather than NOTHING leads to the answer that there is actually NOTHING

Except that Mathematics still exists 1 + 1 will still = 2
The universe is simply a set of rules under which a calculation is performed. It does not exist but the concept of the universe ( under that set of rules) does exist.

We are just one of the results of this calculation after it has been calculated to a point equating to about 14 Billion years. (N.B. Time does not really exist but is one of the rules of the calculation).
There is no difference from our point of view to living in a REAL PHYSICAL UNIVERSE and to living in the mathematical concept of a universe, We can not tell the difference.
Obviously a universe can be defined by many rules and a starting condition. Therefore there are an infinite number of universes but only a small percentage will evolve to the point that we experience.
bluehigh
3.9 / 5 (7) Jan 26, 2016
* there is actually NOTHING *

Yes. It's essential so for there to be Something (or Anything).

Been through this before in an article and comment thread about 'What's outside the Universe'. The blind still can't see. It's an absolute logical necessity that 'outside' there's 'Nothing'.

Too much Strawberry cheesecake for me tonight?

bluehigh
3.9 / 5 (7) Jan 26, 2016
I have just been informed this is covered in an episode of Futurama.

I better look it up to be more fully scientifically informed by Professor Farnsworth.

Azrael
3.2 / 5 (11) Jan 26, 2016
sub; Think Tanks -cosmos Wisdom-cosmology Digest-need : conversations and Dialogues
Welcome trend -think tanks- rational thinking must have a reference frame index for better wisom
to move out of chaos,anarchy and confusion prevailing today among cosmologists.
Water pebbles to Galactic Pebbles need dimensional change in perspective.Flow-fields aligned to Nature-philosophy.
see my research paper presented at Space Telescope scence institute Symposium-2003-available at www [dot]scribd [dot]com-doc-2152-Cosmic-Pot-Universe-2003


Is this a real person spewing incomprehensible nonsense, or someone testing a confused AI?
bschott
3 / 5 (8) Jan 26, 2016
I better look it up to be more fully scientifically informed by Professor Farnsworth.


Futurama has a more viable theory on the origins of the universe and how it works than:


Yes, the Hot Big Bang is finite, and inflation before that _had_ to have an energy density 3 orders of magnitude less than Planck scale energy density, as seen from CMB constraints.


Yes, the land of Oz is finite, and wonderland before that_had_to have a lollipop density 3 orders of magnitude less than the Willie wonka scale candy density, as seen from I believe all of this is real because math told me so constraints.
EnsignFlandry
4 / 5 (8) Jan 26, 2016
The way to understand the universe is to try to view it from outside.
To answer the question why there is SOMETHING rather than NOTHING leads to the answer that there is actually NOTHING

Except that Mathematics still exists 1 + 1 will still = 2
The universe is simply a set of rules under which a calculation is performed. It does not exist but the concept of the universe ( under that set of rules) does exist.

We are just one of the results of this calculation after it has been calculated to a point equating to about 14 Billion years. (N.B. Time does not really exist but is one of the rules of the calculation). ........snip....


If time doesn't exist, then where is my grandmother?
EnsignFlandry
4 / 5 (8) Jan 26, 2016
Observations indicate the universe is probably near infinite. The universe only needs a beginning if your religion says there is a beginning.


" ...near infinite". An oxymoron if there ever was one.
viko_mx
2.8 / 5 (9) Jan 26, 2016
"How did the universe begin? And what came before the Big Bang? Cosmologists have asked these questions ever since discovering that our universe is expanding. The answers aren't easy to determine."

The answers is not easy for those who do not like the truth that the Creator created the universe because of life. When the main stream scientists surround the obvious facts to keep their job and compromising the scientific methods in the name of consensus, never will learn the truth about the world in which they live. Тhe only thing remains for them is to make stupid assumptions devoid of realism. People must be realistic. Realism can never be in excess. It is always just as much as it should be.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (14) Jan 26, 2016
The answers is not easy for those who do not like the truth that the Creator created the universe because of life
Too bad viko won't be around to see the apex sentient species on this planet replaced by machines.

But if he were a bit more objective he could watch the process taking place right now.

But then maybe viko is amish?

I must type another sentence because at the end of the last sentence I noticed I had exactly 666 characters left.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (13) Jan 26, 2016
Of course if viko were even more objective he would have to acknowledge that the human brain is also a machine.

If his god were as pedantic as he seems to be, why did he give us the ability to improve our brains, to augment and eventually to replace them?

Does original sin have an expiration date?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (10) Jan 26, 2016
As skeptics ask of religionists, how did 'nothing' come from everything as you go back in time?

I thought the whole ex nihilo thing was "everything from nothing".
( I'll chalk it up to possibility that English isn't yer native language...:-))
That said," nothing" is only an abstractive construct in the set "everything".
A set of "nothing", simply can't exist.
Stevepidge
2 / 5 (4) Jan 26, 2016
We are 70% blind, but we think we can figure out the Universe while stuck in our pathetic three/four dimensions? We cannot get a clue until we look into the effects on us of the six dimensions we cannot detect at present.

a good "clue" would be not to assume other dimensions in the first place...


OR assuming that the universe has a beginning lol
gkam
1 / 5 (11) Jan 26, 2016
"A set of "nothing", simply can't exist."
----------------------------------------

Have you seen inside my wallet?

It's full of it!
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (11) Jan 26, 2016
"A set of "nothing", simply can't exist."
----------------------------------------

Have you seen inside my wallet?

It's full of it!

Mine has credit cards. I got something - debt...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (10) Jan 26, 2016
Too bad viko won't be around to see the apex sentient species...

that's pretty subjective...:-)
on this planet replaced by machines.

Not sure "replaced" is correct term. I'd prefer "merged with" or "evolve into"...:-)
met a more fishes
3 / 5 (4) Jan 26, 2016
@colbourne - ur speaking my language. bad news for u :( .

although i like to think of it more as an equation working from the solution backwards to the question, but that was before considering the forward/backward duality, so i guess .... potato it is!

time, space, matter, none of them exist. they are emergent properties of some metaverse(tm) and are likely all just different ways of describing one universal phenomena.

while i certainly agree there is the possibility for all realities to exist, i am not sold on the idea that all possible realities DO in fact exist, or at least that they intrinsically must all exist.

met a more fishes
3 / 5 (4) Jan 26, 2016
oh and imo the only metaverse that would be able to reconcile why we have 3 branches of physics (SM, GR, Newtonian) which describe the same reality and yet ostensibly operate in completely distinct (and in some cases contradictory) ways is an abstract mathematical system.

i have had many thoughts on the subject.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (12) Jan 26, 2016
Where does gkam the psychopath get the '70% blind' statistic? From his irrepressible urge to butt into any conversation that does not include him?
not sure replaced is the correct term
So which wad of goo in the human physiology do you think is irreplaceable? Which one couldn't function much better and last much longer if it had been designed to do so?

The wad of goo that contains your soul maybe?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (11) Jan 26, 2016
Where does gkam the psychopath get the '70% blind' statistic? From his irrepressible urge to butt into any conversation that does not include him?

That was first comment in thread, so, technically, he started the conversation.
not sure replaced is the correct term

So which wad of goo in the human physiology do you think is irreplaceable? Which one couldn't function much better and last much longer if it had been designed to do so?

The wad of goo that contains your soul maybe?

The collective wad of electrical impulses in your brain. Maybe even in the whole body...
vlaaing peerd
1 / 5 (4) Jan 27, 2016
Observations indicate the universe is probably near infinite. The universe only needs a beginning if your religion says there is a beginning.


" ...near infinite". An oxymoron if there ever was one.


Not true, existing numbers can add up till it reaches infinity. So near infinity, infinity + 1 or 2x infinity is possible.
AGreatWhopper
2.8 / 5 (13) Jan 27, 2016
If you don't know whether the movie is running forward or in reverse, you can't tell the difference," explains Chen.


That's only if you have years of work experience, a Ph.D. and time in a supercomputing center. However, if you're a loser with no social skills or education that still lives in his mother's basement, apparently it's very easy to tell!
AGreatWhopper
2.5 / 5 (13) Jan 27, 2016
TheGhostofOtto19232.3 /5 (3) 23 hours ago
Where does gkam the psychopath


Fishes is the better candidate. Big correlation with not using caps or punctuation. Besides, SFB, I've explained to you before that gkam suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, not sociopathy. A bit rich hurling invectives about not understanding science...with a term that doesn't exist in the profession. Psychopath is a pop-psych term. Using it sounds as stupid as arguing some POV in here with what you saw in some Hollyweird disaster movie. It shouts, "I'm butt dumb!"
gkam
1.4 / 5 (10) Jan 27, 2016
"gkam suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder"
--------------------------------------
No,whopper, I "suffer" from too much experience. Everything I have said comes from experience I have proven. Sorry if you think it is bragging, but if I have experience or education in a field, I say it, because it makes a difference. I happen to have bounced around a lot in my 71 years.

What did you do?
Benni
3.3 / 5 (12) Jan 27, 2016
"gkam suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder"
--------------------------------------
No,whopper, I "suffer" from too much experience. Everything I have said comes from experience I have proven. Sorry if you think it is bragging, but if I have experience or education in a field, I say it, because it makes a difference. I happen to have bounced around a lot in my 71 years.

What did you do?
.........Differential Equations
Phys1
3 / 5 (10) Jan 27, 2016
@Benni
No way. You can't even use a calculator without getting the division by zero error.
Benni
3.5 / 5 (13) Jan 27, 2016
@Benni
No way. You can't even use a calculator without getting the division by zero error.


You need to pass a 1st semester physics course before laying any claims as to how smart you imagine you are.
gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Jan 27, 2016
"Differential Equations"
-------------------------------

Okay, I'll bite: So what?

Did it make us safer? Did it expand our dimensions of knowledge?
Phys1
3.4 / 5 (10) Jan 28, 2016
@Benni
You are the one claiming to be smart.
You showed how all of cosmology is wrong because of a zero division error that no physicist or astronomer discovered during the last 100 years. All combined they're are not even as smart as you are. As if that is not enough you also claim to know "Differential Equations".
I only claim to be smart enough to see that you are a fool.
bluehigh
5 / 5 (6) Jan 28, 2016
That said," nothing" is only an abstractive construct in the set "everything".
A set of "nothing", simply can't exist. - distracted from artwork


Exactly right. Nothing does not 'exist'. It's not part of any 'set' and does not involve any form of perception or observation by definition.

As I suggested last winter, WG, this is a discussion best left to bourbon and late nights by the fire on a cold night .. I believe you are mistaken in your understanding of this reality.

I've got a handmade wind chime on my back door next to the cherry blossom tree. My daughter crafted it. It's been a guardian of good blessings for a few years now. I cherish it.
Mike_Massen
2 / 5 (12) Jan 28, 2016
Benni claims
What did you do?
.........Differential Equations
Prove it ?

Often challenged you prove your claim especially re "radiative transfer", so far have Failed to ever show *any* Calculus skill - ever :-(

Even better, you use a Planck calculation re 'c' wavelength & completely ignore the most useful differential equation which shows definitely just WHY its NOT appropriate to work out wavelength in black hole scenario - the equation which you *must* have come across if it was ever even a little true you *ever* earned that degree in "Nuclear Engineering", do you know what that is Benni ?

Gets better, Benni refuses to answer my question re his Electrical Engineering lab experience regarding reactances where he *should* know how to calculate the unknown term in a filter equation

And even better U go on about division by zero, failing to understand this is indication that either its wrong to even apply it or normalisation process needed !

Benni=False
Mike_Massen
2.2 / 5 (13) Jan 28, 2016
Benni *only* barks criticism with NO Physics ever
@Benni
No way. You can't even use a calculator without getting the division by zero error.

You need to pass a 1st semester physics course before laying any claims as to how smart you imagine you are
Prove your claims please - which uni & when & how many degrees ?

But, better to be on topic isn't it, so please offer *your* posting a short para or even a basic sentence on your comparative position re the article, that would be smart ?

A para would be great, you make a heck of a LOT of arbitrary bare faced tangential ugly criticism of people you either don't know, have never met, can't understand but, so far, have *never* stated *your* position in any way shape or form, why yah think ?

Please reference the article or an aspect of it and to be on topic in general too, if easier for you the algebra which it implies & how it might be pursued re my Q in respect of Dark Matter ie Algebra re its obvious use...
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (7) Jan 28, 2016
Fishes is the better candidate. Big correlation with not using caps or punctuation. Besides, SFB, I've explained to you before that gkam suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, not sociopathy
And I've provided ample evidence that gkam is a psychopath. I've never used the term sociopath as they are 2 distinct things.

You didnt know that?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Jan 28, 2016
Sociopaths tend to be violent. Psychopaths are far more dangerous because they are often able to operate without being detected.
https://www.psych...ychopath

-George is a particularly clumsy and dimwitted example of a psychopath because his lies are easily detected. IMO.

I've been quoting mainly from 'The Psychopath - The Mask of Sanity' on cassiopaea.

George is far too twisted to be simply a narcissist.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Jan 28, 2016
"Our research team and egroup have been engaged for some time in researching and analyzing these interactions and the characteristics and the dynamics and the personalities. Our research has led us to identify them with "Psychopaths." They can also be Narcissists since Narcissism seems to be merely a "facet" of the psychopath or a "milder" manifestation. You could say that the Narcissist is a "garden variety psychopath" who, because of his or her "social programming," has less likelihood of running afoul of the law. In this way, they are very efficient "survival machines," living out their lives doing untold damage to their families, friends and business associates."
-From the publication i mentioned above.

Perhaps george will tell you what he is really being treated for down at the VA mental ward? He claims it is for a 50yo case of 'PTD' - or was it 'PTS'?

Like I've said, Georges massive cognitive disconnect leaves him unaware of how transparent his lies really are.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (7) Jan 28, 2016
"Those of us who have had experiences with psychopaths know that the language of the psychopath is two-dimensional. They are, as someone once said, as "deep as a thimble." An analogy is given of the psychopath as a color blind person who has learned how to function in the world of color by special strategies."

-Georges strategies don't work very well. It seems he's a failure at psychopathy, in addition to the dozen+++ jobs he's been fired from.
gkam
1 / 5 (7) Jan 28, 2016
Has otto sufficiently displayed his maladjustment and need to attract attention, and the silly ways it manifests itself? Is the fixation clear, with his repeated nonsense?

Notice the continual droning on about psychosis and the need for intervention. Do you really think I am the one for whom he is crying for help?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2016

"Of course if viko were even more objective he would have to acknowledge that the human brain is also a machine."

No exactly. Materialists always forget the breath of life which came from the God to make the material body the living being. When living beings die, the opposite process happens and the material body is returned to the Earth, but the breath of life is returned to the God. So without the breath of life, the life is not possible in any arbitrary conditions.

"If his god were as pedantic as he seems to be, why did he give us the ability to improve our brains, to augment and eventually to replace them?"

People is not able to improve their brains, and the human history clearly shows this, because its tends to repeat again and again because the same human mistakes. People are able only to learn to use its actual potential and make their brain more cooperative in different situations.

viko_mx
1 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2016
But speaking in a broader perspective, the human genome is degenerating constantly because of genetic entropy, which is a consequence of fundamental entropy. Things became worst, no better thanks to the sin.

"Does original sin have an expiration date?"

No, because the love and the truth which are eternal abiding principles of life and the part of the Creator character, Who is eternal and unchangeable, have no expiration date. This principle is in the hearth of God's moral laws which are incompatible with the sin.
kminotaur32
3 / 5 (2) Jan 30, 2016
"How did the universe begin? And what came before the Big Bang? Cosmologists have asked these questions ever since discovering that our universe is expanding. The answers aren't easy to determine."

The answers is not easy for those who do not like the truth that the Creator created the universe because of life. When the main stream scientists surround the obvious facts to keep their job and compromising the scientific methods in the name of consensus, never will learn the truth about the world in which they live. Тhe only thing remains for them is to make stupid assumptions devoid of realism. People must be realistic. Realism can never be in excess. It is always just as much as it should be.


Do you have proof of your imaginary creator?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (4) Jan 31, 2016
A have thousands evidence or many more in all aspects of the universe and human life.
Аnd you for the theory of evolution do you have at least one. This question is rhetorical because I'm sure 100 % that you have not even one.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (7) Feb 01, 2016
love and the truth which are eternal abiding principles of life and the part of the Creator character, Who is eternal and unchangeable, have no expiration date. This principle is in the hearth of God's moral laws which are incompatible with the sin
IOW... your loving god loves us so much that he plagued all of mankind with a mortal life full of suffering, disease, war, corruption, menstruation and etc, all because the first woman was tricked by a demon that HE allowed into his garden?

What's moral about that???

He loves us so much that he will even condemn us to an eternity of torture just because we don't love him back.

He does this even though many of us choose to believe in the evidence which tells us that he's not real, which HE himself left strewn about for us to find.

How can you actually believe that this trickster and torturer is really a god of love and truth?

According to you this god acts in exactly the same way as the demon he wants us all to hate.
Phys1
5 / 5 (4) Feb 01, 2016
I'm sure 100 % that ...

And also wrong 100% ;-) .
Are you a recent convert or have you been wrong 100% all your life ?
Note: when I write "wrong 100%" I mean religious.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (7) Feb 01, 2016
People is not able to improve their brains, and the human history clearly shows this, because its tends to repeat again and again because the same human mistakes
You ignored the 'augment and replace' portion.

We are on the verge of an AI revolution. We already use our machines to remind us, to prompt us, to teach us. These functions will soon be a part of the brain itself and we will no longer be aware of the distinction between us and them.

Tagging and monitoring will make crime impossible. Instant reference and fact-checking will make bullshit and deception impossible. And genetic engineering will remove these psychopathic compulsions from the gene pool.

Our machines will eliminate sin because that is what we are designing them to do.

Disease and aging will be cured. We will no longer be facing an inevitable death, thereby removing the primary reason for religion.

And the miracle viko is that we will be doing these things all by ourselves. No god needed.
Phys1
5 / 5 (4) Feb 01, 2016
@Benni
No way. You can't even use a calculator without getting the division by zero error.


You need to pass a 1st semester physics course before laying any claims as to how smart you imagine you are.

You seem to be quite hung up about the first semester of physics.
It must be high on your list of things still to do in your life.
Together with climbing the Mount Everest and flying to Mars !
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Feb 01, 2016
Will viko's god prevent this AI revolution from happening? No, because this god doesn't exist.

Will his believers prevent this from happening? They will try because they have tried to prevent social and scientific progress ever since their god meme was invented. They will try because their god delusion is the only thing between them and the things they fear.

Their priests stole reason from them and replaced it with a fantasy. Reason offers a much better protection from fear.

You wouldnt know this because you've always been too afraid to try it.
Phys1
5 / 5 (4) Feb 01, 2016
the human genome is degenerating constantly

A definition of degeneration is missing as well as a proof that it is happening.
because of genetic entropy, which is a consequence of fundamental entropy.

You heard something about entropy but you don't know what it is or does.
Things became worst, no better thanks to the sin.

I see. You say "entropy" when you mean "sin".
No, because the love and the truth which are eternal abiding principles of life and

Your deluded word salad sounds exactly like DavidW or was it BartV? One of these nut cases.
the part of the Creator character, Who is eternal and unchangeable, have no expiration date.

You seem to know the "Creator" very well. Do you two hang out a lot ? I mean, when he is not blowing up a galaxy far far away ?
This principle is in the hearth of God's moral laws which are incompatible with the sin.

Entropy?

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