China 'to start work on super, super-collider by 2020'

October 29, 2015
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) Magnet Facility, which is used to train engineers and technicians, at the European Organisation
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) Magnet Facility, which is used to train engineers and technicians, at the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Meyrin, near Geneva on Febuary 10, 2015

China will begin work on the world's largest super-collider in 2020, state-run media reported Thursday, in an attempt to increase understanding of the Higgs boson, or "god particle".

The facility, designed to smash together at enormous speed, will reportedly be at least twice the size of the Swiss-based CERN, where the Higgs boson was discovered.

Scientists believe the particle is one of the fundamental building blocks of the universe.

The final concept design for the project is on schedule to be completed by the end of next year, Wang Yifang, director of the Institute of High Energy Physics at the China Academy of Sciences, told the China Daily.

The facility is expected to generate millions of Higgs boson particles, far more than the capacity of Europe's Large Hadron Collider (LHC), helping scientists to answer some fundamental questions about how the universe works.

As planned, the Chinese project will generate seven times the energy of the LHC, colliding electrons and protons at super high speeds to generate the elusive particles on an unprecedented scale.

"LHC is hitting its limits of energy level," Wang told the China Daily, which is published by the government. "It seems not possible to escalate the energy dramatically at the existing facility."

At a time when austerity measures have led many developed nations to reduce research funding for projects without clear applications, China is pouring huge sums money into theoretical as well as practical science, hoping to become a world leader in fields from biology to cosmology.

A worker rides his bicycle in a tunnel alongside the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) Large Hadron Collider (LH
A worker rides his bicycle in a tunnel alongside the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN) Large Hadron Collider (LHC) in Meyrin, near Geneva during maintenance works on July 19, 2013

Planning for the project began in 2013, shortly after the 2012 discovery of the Higgs boson, according to slides from a presentation by Wang in Geneva that appeared on his institute's website.

He suggested Qinhuangdao, a northern port city that is the starting point of the Great Wall, as an ideal location for the underground facility, noting its favourable geological conditions and local wineries as important selling points.

China's and large population put it in a unique position to invest in basic scientific research, he wrote.

"This is a machine for the world and by the world: not a Chinese one," he added, noting that physicists from around the globe had travelled to China to help with the project.

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19 comments

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baudrunner
1.6 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2015
I think this is a horrendous waste of resources. The experiment that produced the Higgs particle only gives support to the Standard Model, and we can just go on pumping more and more energy in to attain the next quantum threshold just to produce yet another intermediate vector boson, probably ad infinitum. So what?
antigoracle
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2015
I expect the US to respond with the super-duper, super collider.
Max5000
not rated yet Oct 30, 2015
CERN budget is over €1.1 Billion per year! 90% from EU countries and 10% from all big global players. On top of that the participants including, Russia, the US, Japan etc help in designing the most cutting edge components. So it`s really a costly and very international effort. So China is going to do that all on their own? And when the LHC upgrade is already going from 1.2 million Higgs Bosons to 15 million Higgs Bosons per year with the 2023 upgrade to high luminosity. Basically exceeding this concept.

The US tried to build a collider that wasn`t even that size and the cost ballooned to between 40 to 60 Billion. So China is going to invest at least 60 Billion in this? And while it will not exceed the new High-Luminosity LHC? On top of that their is zero indication that new physics can be found at a higher energy. With the global focus now shifted to Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Neutrons, and other stuff that require other major machines.

Mega Super Super Blunder@!!
Noumenon
3 / 5 (2) Oct 30, 2015
I expect the US to respond with the super-duper, super collider.


Super-duper-fantastic-meatball-cowboy-#1 collider.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (6) Oct 30, 2015
noting its favourable geological conditions and local wineries as important selling points.

Geological conditions I get - but what have wineries to do with it?

The US tried to build a collider that wasn`t even that size and the cost ballooned to between 40 to 60 Billion. So China is going to invest at least 60 Billion in this?

They can afford to (and the Chinese are a bit more adept at doing things cheaply then the Americans. Whether they can avoid the usual sub-par material/building slip-ups remains to be seen). I'm hoping they can do it, but I can also envision this as some half finished ruin rotting away out in the boondocks at some point.
TechnoCreed
5 / 5 (4) Oct 30, 2015
@AA
Geological conditions I get - but what have wineries to do with it?
An interesting question.

One thing you have got to remember is that whenever you deal with high energy particle beams, you are going to end up with activated materials. Although colliders are shielded underground facilities, you will have to deal with a certain amount of radioactive waste. You do not want this kind of experiment to be conducted in densely populated area. Look at Fermilab for example https://www.googl...e3?hl=fr A small article that give an idea of the amount of radioactive waste that they have to manage http://articles.c...posables

The population density of China do not allow for unproductive surface area. In this context, vineyards are an acceptable compromise (I guess).
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (9) Oct 30, 2015
I think this is a horrendous waste of resources. The experiment that produced the Higgs particle only gives support to the Standard Model, and we can just go on pumping more and more energy in to attain the next quantum threshold just to produce yet another intermediate vector boson, probably ad infinitum. So what?

How do you know that we won't find something unexpected which may reveal new physics beyond the standard model?

Probably be the same at each quantum threshold?
Probably? That's not how science works. Plus the revelation of new thresholds and vector bosons in itself would be a huge find.

So what? Its called progress and better understanding of reality and our current theories and models.
Osiris1
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 01, 2015
Chinese can build anything they want. They have slave labor, remember. Their hackers steal all the world's secrets. They can rely on greed to get avaricious capitalists with dollar signs for brains or who think with their genitals to hand the rest over on a plate.

That said, the danger is at a certain point on the upper end of the energy scale, an activation point of inflection will be reached, tipping some process into dangerous territory that we can only guess at, like a stable black hole that consumes the planet. We should consider hot labs of this nature to be better placed on some isolated orbit around the sun that goes over the solar pole. If such an orbit was large enough, its year could be constrained to only cross the solar orbital plane once every thousand years or so. Labs of this nature would also necessarily include labs investigating folding space, like prototype warp drives.There may be physical forces at the protoquark level that we have no idea exists.
viko_mx
1.5 / 5 (8) Nov 01, 2015
The building of more powerful machines than LHC is pointless. Because the energy which this machine pump is injected not in particles but in the vacuum of space. The particle are moving with resistance in structure of the vacuum of space and this resistance depend of their speeds. When the speed reach the speed of light, this resistance becomes infinite. LHC energy is used to overcome this resistance. Accelerated particles do not acquire additional mass, but the illusion is such because of growing resistance of their movement in the structure of the vacuum.
So weаther these particals will collide with the speed 99.98 % or 99.99% of the speed of light have no matter because their momentum differs minimal, but not employed by the machine energy to maintain their movement, which is transmitted mainly to the structure of the vacuum. This is the same as the movement of an object in the fluid, but in this case the role of the fluid plays an invisible structure of the vacuum of space.
viko_mx
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 01, 2015
Something more. These structure control the behavior of the elementary particles and can be differently tuned in different zones of the universe. This mean than the speed of light can be very different in different zones of space or in different times. And fundamental forces also. This structure can be reprogrammed and respectively the behavior of elementary particles.
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (5) Nov 01, 2015
Something more. These structure control the behavior of the elementary particles and can be differently tuned in different zones of the universe. This mean than the speed of light can be very different in different zones of space or in different times. And fundamental forces also. This structure can be reprogrammed and respectively the behavior of elementary particles.

How do you know all this? Is it mentioned in your bible? Otherwise, you haven't been to other regions of space and did the various experiments to test it so how do you know tthat's true? Were you there when the space was made by your god?
Steve 200mph Cruiz
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 01, 2015
You don't have to call it the "God particle" anymore, everyone who's interested knows what the Higgs boson is now and it is an incredibly stupid name, we should be more than happy to stop calling it that
Burnerjack
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 01, 2015
I expect the US to respond with the super-duper, super collider.

It did. Under the burden of corrupt budget burdens, the project collapsed and was cancelled October 21, 1993.
'Where ya been'?
viko_mx
2 / 5 (4) Nov 01, 2015
"How do you know all this?"

This model fits the best observable physical reality. Solve many physical problems and explain elegantly the creation process of the universe and life, which is basically a programming task
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (3) Nov 01, 2015
"How do you know all this?"

This model fits the best observable physical reality. Solve many physical problems and explain elegantly the creation process of the universe and life, which is basically a programming task

What scientific evidence do you have? Its all conjecture on your part until you go out into the universe and do the experiments to show its how you claim. You are doing the very thing you regularly accuse scientists of doing.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Nov 02, 2015
you will have to deal with a certain amount of radioactive waste. You do not want this kind of experiment to be conducted in densely populated area.

Since this involves a fair amount of construction and digging up large swathes of land it's not likely this would be done in a densely populated area anyhow.

Thgough you can build it in populated areas if you want to. E.g. the Desy collider:
http://h1.desy.de...LASH.jpg

The radiation only happens in the experimental halls, which are well shielded. The vast majority of the ring isn't a radiation zone.
vidyunmaya
not rated yet Nov 02, 2015
Sub; Where lies solution- Think tanks needed
cosmology origins need best of brains trust. Misleading concepts do not help advancement of Science through LHC- God particle. Science at cross roads -2004 before Particle physics Collider groups got funding as I understand.
Today -instead of searching for lead kindly light- one sees blind head towards dooms-day -no one can retrieve from blunders- by increasing TeV scale
charlimopps
not rated yet Nov 02, 2015
Given the structure of China's government and social systems, this should be far cheaper for them to build. Meaning, they'll just throw out the farmers and dig up their land. If people are worried about the environmental effects the gov will ship them to some other part of the country. So yes, China's the perfect place for a project of this scale, but the reasons are far from perfect.
rgw
not rated yet Nov 03, 2015
You don't have to call it the "God particle" anymore, everyone who's interested knows what the Higgs boson is now and it is an incredibly stupid name, we should be more than happy to stop calling it that


I think we should leave the mighty Boson to roam the Western prairie as Nature intended.

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