End-of-century Manhattan climate index to resemble Oklahoma City today

city
The downtown Dallas, Texas (USA) skyline from a levee along the Trinity River. Facing southeast. Credit: drumguy8800/Wikipedia

Climate change caused by greenhouse gas emissions will alter the way that Americans heat and cool their homes. By the end of this century, the number of days each year that heating and air conditioning are used will decrease in the Northern states, as winters get warmer, and increase in Southern states, as summers get hotter, according to a new study from a high school student, Yana Petri, working with Carnegie's Ken Caldeira. It is published by Scientific Reports.

"Changes in outdoor temperatures have a substantial impact on energy use inside," Caldeira explained. "So as the climate changes due to greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the amount of energy we use to keep our homes comfortable will also change."

Using results from established climate models, Petri, under Caldeira's supervision, calculated the changes in the number of days over the last 30 years when U.S. temperatures were low enough to require heating or high enough to require in order to achieve a comfort level of 65 degrees Fahrenheit. She also calculated projections for future days when heating or air conditioning would be required to maintain the same comfort level if current trends in continue unchecked.

Looking forward toward the end of this century, her calculations found that Washington state will have the smallest increase in air conditioning-required days and southern Texas will have the largest increase. Likewise, upper North Dakota, Minnesota, and Maine would have the largest decrease in heating-required days and southern Florida would have the smallest decrease.

Petri then took this inquiry one step further and looked at a sum of heating-required days and cooling-required days in different regions both in the past and in future projection, to get a sense of changes in the overall thermal comfort of different areas.

"No previous study has looked at climate model projections and tried to develop an index of overall thermal comfort, which is quite an achievement," Caldeira said.

Today, the city with the minimum combined number of heating- and cooling-required days, in other words the place with the most-optimal outdoor comfort level, is San Diego. But the model projected that in the same future time frame, 2080-2099, the climate would shift so that San Francisco would take its place as the city with the most-comfortable temperatures.

Other changes predicted by the model are that the amount of heating and cooling required in New York City in the future will be similar to that used in Oklahoma City today. By this same measure, Seattle is projected to resemble present day San Jose, and Denver to become more like Raleigh, NC, is today.


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Greenhouse gas-caused warming felt in just months

Journal information: Scientific Reports

Citation: End-of-century Manhattan climate index to resemble Oklahoma City today (2015, August 4) retrieved 19 June 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2015-08-end-of-century-manhattan-climate-index-resemble.html
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Aug 04, 2015
Please, these climate change/global warming articles are worth a dime a dozen, and are marketed on science websites way too often. Editors, please focus on real science.



Considering your history of creationist propaganda and remarks like "relies on atheist imaginations (not science) to figure out what may have been billions of years ago", it's pretty ironic to see you PRETEND to support 'real' science. And here's me thinking you lot consider "bearing false witness" a sin...

Aug 04, 2015
"Editors, please focus on Tea-bagger science." is what he meant to say, I think.

Aug 04, 2015
So, those concerned about AGW are moving north? Didn't think so. Hypocrites at every turn.

The editors *do* focus on tea-bagger science. The foundations that support it are major contributors to their revenue stream. Can you cite ONE reputable site that doesn't cull their spam? One? Look at the volume of comments on The Guardian. They seem to get around to it.

And then you get the effect seen with drugs legalization where one tiny place does it, no one else around does, and they end up with every addict. Look at the load of trolls on here. That is not a coincidence. It is what is to be expected from their policies, but pimping out the page trumps any intellectual integrity.

Aug 04, 2015
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Aug 04, 2015
Verkle and his kibbutz cronies at least aren't hypocrites. Higher temperatures are their latest, best plan to kill off all the Arabs, poor xtians Armenians and Kurds! http://www.thegua...-top-50c

Admit it verkle. Show the AGWites what intellectual integrity is. Tell us how much you are LOVING that.

Aug 04, 2015
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Aug 04, 2015
By next century? Wow, our predictive models are aweso..! err...I'd love to see the model's predictions graphed so that something for which the author of the paper would be accountable (like a "temperature over range" time frame in which memory would not fade and ownership could be a factor in the prediction).

Talk about intellectual integrity! I see nothing but an assertion of a speculative conclusion in this article. The worst part of it is that our bureaucrats feed on this to main our economies and pad their slush funds.

With respect to killing Palestinians, yeah, I'd like to see a study on more efficient killing of the terrorists, their breeders, and their progeny.

Wait, I found it! I'll read it and feedback, but so far, the graphics are showing jumps from 2010 to 2080. I guess AGW is going to remove 70 years from the books too. Stand by.

http://www.nature...2427.pdf

Others' thoughts would be interesting too.

Aug 04, 2015
By the end of this century....

I love it when the AGW Cult looks into their CO2 filled crystal ball and breathe in too much of it.
Is it any wonder they only see a gloomy future.

Aug 04, 2015
Nice. Less fossil fuels burned plowing snow and heating homes.

Aug 04, 2015
How much climate change has happened in Manhattan during the last century of GloBULL warming?

Aug 04, 2015
What a hoot I just got suspended for 10 days from the Physics Forums . com site. There was no name calling or snide remarks. They just don't know how to deal with a conservative viewpoint. The moderator is really full of herself.

Aug 04, 2015
Except that the climate models don't work.

Aug 04, 2015
Except that the climate models don't work.

Except, of course, there's no evidence that models don't work and a great deal of evidence that they work well ;) (eg, http://www.skepti...ght.html ). Seriously, if you're going to make things up, shouldn't you make up things that are hard to refute?

Aug 04, 2015
"Some stuff by NiteSkyGerl"

Hmm, looks like someone testing Godwin's law has arrived.
@denglish
"With respect to killing..."
You lost any respect or credibility you had on this forum with that statement. You disgust me.

Aug 05, 2015
Using results from established climate models...

You mean the climate models that significantly overstate warming according to the leading authority on global warming, the IPCC Fifth Assessment Report?

http://www.climat...g1-4.jpg

That graph only goes to 2012. There have been 3 more years of non-warming that make the climate models even more wrong. See the UAH satellite global temperatures graph here:

http://nsstc.uah.edu/climate/

If you use climate models which significantly overstate temperatures then all your calculations are off. Sorry. Blame the climate modelers and tell them to fix their models.

Aug 05, 2015
"With respect to killing Palestinians, yeah, I'd like to see a study on more efficient killing of the terrorists, their breeders, and their progeny."
------------------------------------

Are you going to do it yourself, or are you a big mouthed coward? I think it is the mouth.

You big mouths never actually saw a war, but think it is cool, like in the movies. Instead it is the broadcasting of adolescence.

Aug 05, 2015
Except, of course, there's no evidence that models don't work

Actually, there is:
http://www.drroys...2013.png
a great deal of evidence that they work well

Not really. See the above graph.
You lost any respect or credibility you had on this forum with that statement. You disgust me.

Its nice to know you support terrorist activities. You do know that if they gain the upper hand, your type will be the first to be put to death, yes?
You big mouths never actually saw a war

Oh boy, gkam's warming himself up to tell some more stories! Hasn't your lying gone far enough? Dude, you're beyond embarrassing yourself; you're into the pathologically lying village idiot sector now.

Back on topic, has anyone read the paper yet? Thoughts?

Aug 05, 2015
No, denglish, I just want to bring out the character of those who like violence against others, as they cower at home.

Manhattan folk will sweat like the Okies soon. Will they also get as dumb? Will the poison of religion and superstition re-take the East Coast?

Aug 05, 2015
No, denglish, I just want to bring out the character of those who like violence against others, as they cower at home.

Manhattan folk will sweat like the Okies soon. Will they also get as dumb? Will the poison of religion and superstition re-take the East Coast?

Ok. Good for you.

Look. Clearly you have lots of time on your hands, you're highly educated, and your world experience should allow you insights and communicative abilities that the average person doesn't possess.

Why don't you read the paper and tell us your thoughts. I linked to it above.

Aug 05, 2015
Yes, we have used HDD and CDD for a long time now. When we did the energy analyses for facilities, we had to determine all the factors and give projections based on HDD and CDD, which was a real problem in the Bay Area with the plethora of microclimates. They can change significantly in the space of a few blocks.

This can be somewhat complex to determine the future and the real costs, since our building envelopes will improve and the powered systems as well,. Ground-coupled heat pumps, PV building materials, and transmission-controllable windows, superinsulations, buildings built to maximize efficacy will drastically change how we use power.

Aug 05, 2015
@denglish

"Spencer is a signatory to An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming,[30][31] which states that "Earth and its ecosystems – created by God's intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence – are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting".

"Andrew Dessler later published a paper opposing the claims of Spencer and Braswell (2011) in Geophysical Research Letters.[24] He stated, among other things:"
"First, [they] analyzed 14 models, but they plotted only six models and the particular observational data set that provided maximum support for their hypothesis. Plotting all of the models and all of the data provide a much different conclusion."
https://en.wikipe...ientist)

I need to run some errands but will be back with more about Spencer, pointing out how his creationist and political beliefs bias his research conclusions. He has done some very bad science.


Aug 05, 2015
Yes, we have used HDD and CDD for a long time now. When we did the energy analyses for facilities, we had to determine all the factors and give projections based on HDD and CDD, which was a real problem in the Bay Area with the plethora of microclimates. They can change significantly in the space of a few blocks.

This can be somewhat complex to determine the future and the real costs, since our building envelopes will improve and the powered systems as well,. Ground-coupled heat pumps, PV building materials, and transmission-controllable windows, superinsulations, buildings built to maximize efficacy will drastically change how we use power.

Not stories, the paper!

Aug 05, 2015
I read the paper, and commented on it. The use of CDD and HDD for analysis and projection is well-established and not new. A simple linear regression will give you the baseline and slope of the line for Btu input/degree-day, or however you want to look at it.

Once you have modeled the building you use the historic degree-day information for projections. It is very difficult to do accurately in the hills of the SF East Bay Area because the differing microclimates are really nanoclimates, existing for a mile or maybe a few blocks in the hills.

Aug 05, 2015
You lost any respect or credibility you had on this forum with that statement. You disgust me.

"Its nice to know you support terrorist activities."
I do not.

"You do know that if they gain the upper hand,"
Which "they" would that be?

" your type will be the first to be put to death, yes?"

The comment that prompted my initial post;

"With respect to killing Palestinians, yeah, I'd like to see a study on more efficient killing of the terrorists, their breeders, and their progeny."

So, all Palestinians are terrorists, and you want to find better ways of killing men, women, and children.
Palestinians don't scare me, mindsets like yours, do.

Aug 05, 2015
Palestinians don't scare me, mindsets like yours, do.

That's nice. Go live with them. Say hello to Hamas when you get there.

Aug 05, 2015
Ok, read the paper. They're using CMIP5 projections. So far, CMIP5 doesnt' seem to be doing too well in its predictive ability:
https://ourchangi...perc.png

We suggest that HDD and CDD values are useful in helping to understand the magnitude
of climate change projected for the United States.

But right before that:
metrics such as HDD and CDD cannot be right or wrong; they can be more or less useful.

So we're using metrics that can be neither right nor wrong to come up with conclusions?

I can live with the latter part I guess. Extrapolating results based on the CMIP5 model does not seem to be wise given the model's performance so far.

Why not use actual temperature data and extrapolate from that? One could moderate the temp predictions based on observed past variabilities to come up with something more believable than a scenario based on a doomsday model's predictions.

Aug 05, 2015
Spencer is a signatory to An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming

I read the declaration. Wow, that's pretty bad! I wonder why Spencer does not rule out AGW in his writings.

Andrew Dessler later published a paper opposing the claims of Spencer and Braswell

I'd like to know more about this. I looked for the paper, but admittedly, not hard. Does the source you're using link to the actual paper?

Aug 05, 2015
Spencer is a signatory to An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming

I read the declaration. Wow, that's pretty bad! I wonder why Spencer does not rule out AGW in his writings.

Andrew Dessler later published a paper opposing the claims of Spencer and Braswell

I'd like to know more about this. I looked for the paper, but admittedly, not hard. Does the source you're using link to the actual paper?


@denglish

I'm going to be busy for the few hours but I'll be back with more on Spenser.

Aug 05, 2015
Spencer is a signatory to An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming

I read the declaration. Wow, that's pretty bad! I wonder why Spencer does not rule out AGW in his writings.

Andrew Dessler later published a paper opposing the claims of Spencer and Braswell

I'd like to know more about this. I looked for the paper, but admittedly, not hard. Does the source you're using link to the actual paper?


@denglish

I'm going to be busy for the few hours but I'll be back with more on Spenser.

Don't sweat it. :-) Just another case of the guys going back and forth. Both us and them. :-)

What I'd like to see is where the CMIP5 predictions fall within his graph! Are they the same as other sources?

Aug 05, 2015
But the most damning criticism has to do with Spencer and Braswell's figure, shown above (Fig. 1). Regarding this figure, Spencer and Braswell said,"

"While we computed results for 14 of the models archived, here will only present results for the three most sensitive models… and the three least sensitive models…. (Spencer and Braswell, 2011)"
https://bbickmore...wn-data/

The link points out the many instances of shoddy science by Spenser.

" Spencer is on the nine-member board of the antiregulation, Scaife- and Bradley-funded Marshall Institute, though he appears not to disclose this affiliation on his website"
http://www.source..._Spencer


Aug 05, 2015
Spencer's paper
http://www.drroys...s_11.pdf

First response to Spencer.
http://www.realcl...eedback/

Second response to Spencer, followed by a comment on Dressler's paper.
http://geotest.ta...2011.pdf

"The bulk of Dessler's paper is devoted to the second error in SB2011, namely that the authors dramatically underestimated a critical ratio in their equation because they didn't constrain their equation using measured data from the real world. SB2011 assumes that the ratio in question was about 0.5, but real data requires that the ratio be closer to 26, an error of about 50x. When the constrained ratio is used in the equations in SB2011, the paper's results are suddenly right in line with the very models and papers that SB2011 was supposedly disproving."
http://climatecro...spencer/



Aug 06, 2015
That map change (apart from being off topic) sure is alarming! I wonder how it correlates to measurements of sea ice here:
http://www.climat...Area.gif

The data does not see to be as scary as the pictures.

Thanks for the links Vet, I'll check them out and feedback.

I did a bit of research on CMIP5, and everywhere I looked, there was a ton of work to support a position that says only the lower range of the model's predictions matched observation.

Would it be right to say then that in respect to using the CMIP5 models as a policy maker or as a source for academic work, then the upper range of the predictions should not be used, and that it would be wiser to use the lower range?


Aug 06, 2015
one of the topics of this thread has been how the denier community (Spencer in this case) manipulates data.

Man, you just wallow in negativity! Stop! Its an awful way to communicate, and doesn't inspire confidence from your audience. :-)

Actually, the topic is End-of-century Manhattan climate index to resemble Oklahoma City today.

That led to a questioning of the CMIP5 model as a tool, which brought into question the means by which the CMIP5 models have been falsified.

See the difference between how you said it and I said it? Which one seems to come from a reasonable person?

Re: Sea Ice:

Onions, let's make sure we're appling/appling and not appling/oranging. What graph or data set are you referring to exactly? Ont he page your link, I see short range and comparison charts, but nothing that can be compared to what I linked.


Aug 06, 2015
Vet, I read the papers.

The first link is an opinion piece, and doesn't challenge the science.

The second link is much better in terms of science offering; unfortunately, I don't have the time to go through a thorough point by point comparison of Spencer's and Dessler's conclusions. One paper believes radiative forcing is a factor, the other doesn't.

One turns to observations, and it seams that models that don't account for radiative forcing (which by Dessler's paper I am assuming is the position of the IPCC) aren't doing that good of a job predicting warming at the rate by which societal policies are being instituted. One can say that the model predicts within the margin of error, but the margin of error is huge.

In the end, I don't have any reason to doubt a comparison of model predictions and real observations authored by Spencer.

Aug 06, 2015
Arguing with a Tea Bag is much like arguing with a Drunk. The Drunk knows nothing, but is completely full of himself. The Drunk can learn nothing, since his brain is not available. The argument is useless, yet the Drunk enjoys it. The Drunk always claims to know about science, while at the same time denying it. Like a Tea Bag, the drunk has no concept of logic.
Arguing with Tea Bags and Drunks is a complete waste of time, energy, and intellect.

Aug 06, 2015
I prefer the wrestling with the pig analogy.

I have to ask: what is the point of chosing censorship via humiliation over intelligent dialogue? Has the former ever netted you a positive result?

Aug 06, 2015
Go up about 9 posts - and you will see that Dr. Spencer was very much the topic of debate.

Never said he wasn't. Read what I said again.

Although the specific graph I was looking at and meant to reference was fig. 3

Figure 3 is a comparison to other Julys, not overall trends over time (unless you only care about Julys). So, you weren't comparing apples to apples; hence the confusion.

Look at how you go after people on a very personal level.

Ah, moral equivalency. The UhlfBerhrt of the liberals. Don't lie about who you are, and there will be no need to humiliate you. Its easy.

Also, Censorship via Humiliation (especially as referenced above) is a specific term in communicative theory. As a person holding a Master's in Community Counseling, you should know the difference between that and general humiliation. Unless you don...aw n/m, too easy.

Aug 06, 2015
Figure 3 is a comparison to other Julys, not overall trends over time (unless you only care about Julys). So, you weren't comparing apples to apples; hence the confusion.


And your graph is January data - so I am curious as to why and how you picked January. It occurs to me that it is one of those cherry pick things. I did not select July - it was on the first page of the nsidc web page.

I don't think denglish's graph was looking at January data (though that would be a massive cherry pick, indeed - your pick of July is more relevant to the ice melt). No, his graph is likely the actual data from NSIDC plotted in a way to make it seem like nothing's happening.

To understand what plots to look at, you need to understand why polar sea ice change is important. There are two reasons that I know of (I'm in no way an expert):
1. Albedo change.
2. An example of the continuing current climate change.

Cont.

Aug 06, 2015
Albedo change is important because the loss of arctic sea ice means summer sunlight is absorbed by the ocean, rather than reflected by the ice. That's why more attention is paid to the arctic sea ice extent in the summer than in the winter - the winter extent doesn't provide the positive feedback that the loss of summer ice does. It's also why the gain in ice around Antarctica isn't as important. That gain is in the southern winter when there is no sun, so the albedo change is very small. And the Antarctic sea ice melts out in the summer.

Both the gain in Antarctic sea ice and the loss in Arctic sea ice are demonstrat
ions of the continuing warming climate. I think the gain of Antarctic ice confuses some people, but it's not that complicated.

Cont.

Aug 06, 2015
Warming oceans and air means more precipitation. That falls on the ocean and creates a layer of fresh water. In addition, the accelerating loss of Antarctic land ice leads to more fresh water in the ocean, contributing to the fresh layer. Fresh water freezes at warmer temperatures than salt water, so you get more ice. (The fresh layer also makes it hard for the warmer ocean water below the fresh layer to mix with the fresh layer, leading to a colder fresh layer that freezes easier - http://citeseerx....type=pdf ). In addition, increased winds break up the ice, exposing more fresh water to freeze. The increased warming may influence the winds, but I think the ozone hole has more influence there. This all leads to more sea ice surrounding Antarctica - thanks, at least in part, to global warming/climate change.

Cont.

Aug 06, 2015
So, looking at denglish's graph, you can first ignore the 13-month average (except for a general trend). This is going to be influenced greatly by the winter high in the arctic and the summer low in the Antarctic - both of which change very little (due to still very cold winter temperatures in the north and a continent in the south). You can also ignore the total sea ice area plot. It hides the change in albedo as well as the effects of climate change - which I suspect is its purpose. You can look at the 13-month average and pretend to know what's going on, but this is very noisy data and the eyes are very bad at analyzing data like this. Something like the PIOMAS plot of the Arctic sea ice volume anomaly shows a better view of what's happening (http://neven1.typ...c970b-pi ).

Cont.

Aug 06, 2015
Anti-science groups like to point to the growth in volume over the last 2 years, but after the anomolous low in 2012, that wasn't unexpected. And given the dramatic loss in multi-year ice this year, that "recovery" is pretty much over (compare 2014 at http://ocean.dmi....0803.png ). It's been an incredibly bad year for Arctic sea ice this year and it's not over yet.

Aug 06, 2015
Thanks zz5555, 5 consecutive educating and informative posts :)
/tips hat

Aug 06, 2015
For some reason, the 2015 Arctic sea ice thickness plot got cut off - I'm pretty sure it was there when I wrote the last section. Anyway, here's the 2015 plot to compare to the 2014 plot: http://ocean.dmi....0803.png

Aug 06, 2015
Thanks zz5555, 5 consecutive educating and informative posts :)
/tips hat

You're welcome. I think the science here is fascinating though, like I say, I'm not expert in sea ice. But nothing I said here was very controversial. If you really want to read some fairly in depth sea ice discussions, Neven's blog is a great place to hang out (http://neven1.typepad.com ).

Aug 07, 2015
the topic of discussion was Dr. Spencer

No, the topic was the veracity of his analysis. No matter, pedantry isn't your strong suit.

And your graph is January data

No, it is yearly trends. Notice that there is a mid-year marker between each year. June/July, as it were.

Never have lied about who I am

So you do hold a master's Degree in Community Counseling without a graduate degree?

No, his graph is likely the actual data from NSIDC plotted in a way to make it seem like nothing's happening.

It would be very unwise to be intellectually dishonest about such an important subject. The graph is simply a plotting the facts and showing a very normal cyclic wax and wane of sea ice. Over time, nothing is happening, or so says the observation.

This is going to be influenced greatly by the winter high in the arctic and the summer low in the Antarctic

Very good!

which I suspect is its purpose

Yes, its a conspiracy to destroy the world.


Aug 07, 2015
Albedo change is important because the loss of arctic sea ice means summer sunlight is absorbed by the ocean, rather than reflected by the ice.

I thought the AGW view was that the sun had nothing to do with the climate.

I think you guys are hanging on to anthropocentrism to the point where you just don't want to believe the cosmos does what it does regardless of us, or any other living thing.

Anyway, a red-herring. The topic was a prediction of future weather based on determinants that in the paper admittedly are not the best foundation, and the use of the CMIP5 model, which is only accurate on the low-side of its predictions; thus calling into question academic study and policy making that is justified by the yet to be seen high side of the predictions.

As with everything else in nature, the polar sea ice waxes and wanes. It is normal, and measurements over time show almost total equilibrium.

See you guys in the next thread. :-)

Aug 08, 2015
greenie, these are just games these kids are playing. If they were real professionals, they would not be so quick to display such poor character.

Ask "denglish" to reveal him/herself, and you will get a nasty reply.

Aug 08, 2015
None the less - my comments were not off topic.

For having a Master's Degree, you have a remarkable disability when it comes to understanding written word. I think you are lying about that Master's Degree, just as your crew gkam, Stumpy, and zz555 lie about their educations.

greenie, these are just games these kids are playing. If they were real professionals, they would not be so quick to display such poor character.

Ask "denglish" to reveal him/herself, and you will get a nasty reply.

What I am in real life has no bearing on these forums. That was one of the very first things I said that went over both your heads.

You are both liars re: your education. That does have bearing on these forums.

Aug 08, 2015
greenie, these are just games these kids are playing. If they were real professionals, they would not be so quick to display such poor character.

Ask "denglish" to reveal him/herself, and you will get a nasty reply.
-And if george was a real professional instead of a pretend one then he wouldnt have to pretend now would he?
Ask "denglish" to reveal him/herself
We know who you are george and we also now know WHAT you are.

"psychopaths are good imposters. They have absolutely no hesitation about forging and brazenly using impressive credentials to adopt professional roles that bring prestige and power. They pick professions in which the requisite skills are easy to fake, the jargon is easy to learn, and the credentials are unlikely to be thoroughly checked. Psychopaths find it extremely easy to pose as financial consultants, ministers, psychological counselors and psychologists"

-But not engineers on a site full of them.

Aug 08, 2015
And do you think that I care what you think about my life?

Yes, because you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to convince yourself, myself, and everyone else how important you are.

will you apologize for being an ass wipe, and then f*ck off?

No, because I will know it is all lies. Look at your inability to grasp the written word, and to stay on topic. Look at how you are possessed with protecting your internet toon. You think a real-life persona created on the internet gives you some form of credibility. It doesn't. It makes you look like a lying idiot, which by your behavior, you have become.

Just like your leaders, the liberals create a false persona, and then by virtue of their actions, show themselves to be ridiculons.

Aug 08, 2015
greenie, these are just games these kids are playing. If they were real professionals, they would not be so quick to display such poor character.

Ask "denglish" to reveal him/herself, and you will get a nasty reply.


Asking someone to reveal themselves deserves a nasty reply.

Aug 08, 2015
This response says it all.

I've never understand these people.
Their fabrications are more important to them than dignity.

Aug 08, 2015
"Asking someone to reveal themselves deserves a nasty reply"

- Code of the Cowardly Internet Sniper

Aug 08, 2015
I've never understand these people.


I think this is a very accurate assertion. I have no idea if I do or do not understand denglish - It is of no importance to me. I am glad that denglish has shown us a great deal - by calling me a liar, and then openly acknowledging - that even if I presented evidence of the facts about which I am being called a liar - denglish would not accept that evidence. In other words - facts are of no importance to denglish - but slandering others is sport. Sad...


- Code of the Cowardly Internet Sniper

I've never understand these people.
Their fabrications are more important to them than dignity.

Aug 08, 2015
Gkam - Asking people to reveal themselves is probably what got you kicked out of Walmart.

Go find a lonely hearts club, sad old man. You shame the real vets.

Aug 08, 2015
All this time, you were otto.

Aug 09, 2015
Actually I'm not, but can be as annoyed as him when confronted with so much stupid.

If you look up from the mirror you can see that people agree with the statement that anonymity on this site is good.

George Kamburoff, Joanna J Kamburoff
533 Westover Lane
Pleasant Hill, CA 94523
Phone: (925) 555-1444
925-555-4885
https://www.googl...oe=utf-8
Nice little house. 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, and approximately 2147 sqft of living space.
I see there is a plum tree growing around the telephone pole on the corner.
That your blue car?
http://www.classm...42571251
Class of 1962 Chowchilla high. Going to the traveling Vietnam Wall?

Katie J Kamburoff
Catherine Kamburoff 760-555-1948
John Kamburoff II 760-555-1948
Manya B Kamburoff (925) 555-0824

Addresses for all, with just YOUR info from this site.

Lived in Oakland, Concord, Santa Barbara, Martinez, etc.

GET A CLUE.


Aug 09, 2015
And why are you listed as an accountant on Angie's' List?
Wow, Joanna sure has a lot of food pins on her Pinterest. I bet she's a good cook.
Mediterranean (Italy, France) architecture and food seem to be her favorites.
The Franzi's can be traced too, ya know.

Should I leave reviews in all the places you are listed? And what would I possibly have to say?
I have no intention to do that by the way.

Your DNS and IP info is exposed also, by the way.

There is much more but even you should see the point.

Can you just possibly see the point here?

Aug 09, 2015
To summarize Denglish's world-view, as explained by him on this forum: no facts can ever replace my prejudice.

Aug 09, 2015
@Estevan57:

Delete that immediately. What you're doing is a criminal offense.

Aug 09, 2015
An accountant. hahahahaha

Aug 09, 2015
To summarize Denglish's world-view, as explained by him on this forum: no facts can ever replace my prejudice.

Actually, Estevan's revelations confirmed my suspicion. gkam is a fraud, making it even more likely that his buddies are too.

Aug 09, 2015
Thanks for the outing. Now, you are responsible for anything which happens to me or my family.

You are a vandal. You only confirmed my assertions of your character. denglish and otto are just like you folk who think this is your private game here.

It is time we ruled that only real names can post here, to get rid of the estevan and otto and denglish group of lurkers, snipers, and character assassins. Otto even BRAGGED about it!

If you have to take responsibility for your actions, you will essentially be shut down.

Aug 09, 2015
He got it all from google. You are all over the internet. Didn't you know? Do you get it now? An accountant. hahahahhaa

Aug 09, 2015
Moderator, I reported this post to get your attention to what is happening here. These anonymous vandals have turned your forum into a private game of character assassination, driving away anybody else who wants to comment or read ours.

Go read the entries of otto and denglish and estevan, and see the verbiage, the personal attacks, the juvenile behavior which intimidates or disgusts serious posters.

Please insist on real names, so their actions can be ascribed to the correct lurkers and snipers.

Aug 09, 2015
Irrespective of whether someone, anyone, including denglish, is deserving or not, you can't go around compiling personal data from over the internet into a neat little bundle like that. Especially not since it concerns, at the very least, a number of people not even party to this discussion.

Aug 09, 2015
Pot/Kettle/Black.

George, ya finally got what was coming to you. You brought it on yourself. Appeals to higher powers won't take it back.

You should use this as a learning opportunity. Contribute to the topics, not anarchy; especially if you can't take the results.

Aug 09, 2015
Thomas, they are vandals, character assassins. otto even bragged about playing games with the rest of us.

I am not an accountant, so their stuff is in some error, but it is the intent which is obvious, something I learned while on Federal Criminal Grand Jury 06-2 in San Francisco for 70 sessions in 24 months.

This is going to bite them where it hurts.

Aug 09, 2015
What you're doing is a criminal offense.


Non, it is not a crime. Google-Skippy is free and legal for anybody to use. Repeating what the Google-Skippy says is free speech. You might not like it but it is legal. Which is why I told glam-Skippy I am smarter than he is. Only a pathetically needy couyon would tell the 3/4 lies with 1/4 truths to build up his ego using his real name on the internet. I mean really, how stupid can you get?

But peoples with that kind of mental conditions always just know beyond all doubt that they are smarter than anybody else. And if anybody trips them up then they are all the same person and cheat to trip them up because nobody else is nearly smart enough to do it fair and square.

glam-Skippy is no different than Bennie-Skippy, Really-Skippy, Returnering-Skippy or JVK-Skippy. They are part and parcel the same as each other but are so smart they just can't believe what everybody else sees.

Aug 09, 2015
Ira, grow up. You cannot forgive me for being real, and when i sent you the proof, you could not even admit it. Yes, it is character, Ira, but not mine which is in doubt.

Now, let us see if you have the character to read what others have done while you were slogging through the delta. The thread is on climate change, and how the goobers do not want to believe it.

Aug 09, 2015
something I learned while on Federal Criminal Grand Jury 06-2 in San Francisco for 70 sessions in 24 months.

You still haven't learned! Fascinating.

but then openly admitting that you would not accept any evidence.

You guys just don't get it. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ANYONE BUT YOU!

You guys are so busy being right you don't realize you're wrong.


Aug 09, 2015
It apparently matters to you, since you cannot give it up.

How about just reading and learning from the experience of others? Perhaps you can stop acting like an ADHD kid in first grade?

The topic is climate change and deniers.

Aug 09, 2015
You cannot forgive me for being real, and when i sent you the proof, you could not even admit it.


Not admit it? I did too admit it Cher. It said EXACTLY what I said it says. It DID NOT say anything about you being the expert on anything. It DID NOT say you have any diploma or degree on anything. Why can you not admit that? It was not evidence of anything, it was just smoke and mirrors.

Aug 09, 2015
The topic is climate change and deniers.

No, the topic WAS a prediction of warming in different parts of the US.

When the study was brought into question based on two very questionable artifacts, this thread devolved into the usual crap.

If you had read the paper in the first place you may have been more interested in the content. If you were interested in the content, you may have attempted to contribute to it. However, you didn't, and started the vehicle of your outing instead. Your buddies even upvoted your nonsense.

Why...only you know, and perhaps not even then. Liberalism is a mental disorder that you are suffering from in the extreme; one suspects you don't even know what you are doing.

"Editors, please focus on Tea-bagger science." is what he meant to say, I think.

This was your first post. Really designed to promote intellectual dialogue? No, designed to promote anarchy.

You can start it, but you can't take it.

Aug 09, 2015
What is this unhealthy fixation on me? Is your pathetic life so incomplete, and I am such a threat to your ego you have to attack others?

By bringing up my own experience, I brought you folk out, too. Have you read your stuff? Do you now see what kind of trail of character you left forever in cyberspace?

This thread is how deniers will not like how New York will be in the future.

Aug 09, 2015
Is your pathetic life so incomplete, and I am such a threat to your ego you have to attack others?

This thread is how deniers will not like how New York will be in the future.

By bringing up my own experience, I brought you folk out, too.

Do you now see what kind of trail of character you left forever in cyberspace?

You are sick. Imprisoned in your own mind, and totally unaware of it.


Aug 09, 2015
No, denglish, YOU are the one who is imprisoned. Do you dream of me, too, like otto does?

Your fixation is telling.

Aug 09, 2015
Stating that something does not matter to you - and then spending huge amounts of time demonstrating that it actually does matter to you.

You're right in that respect. I let myself get looser than I should have.

Let's go to the top of this thread and see what we can learn. Where does the first de-railment of the thread occur? Did you up-vote it?

Where does the first attempt at understanding the content of the article and paper occur? Did you down-vote it?

Staying on topic would do a lot of us good. Heck, we may even learn something.

Aug 09, 2015
"Staying on topic would do a lot of us good."
-------------------------------------

Yes, the message finally got through!

Can you do it?

Aug 09, 2015
"Staying on topic would do a lot of us good."
-------------------------------------

Yes, the message finally got through!

Can you do it?


"Editors, please focus on Tea-bagger science." is what he meant to say, I think.

Can you?

How about a wager. First person to go off topic removes themselves from this site forever.

Aug 09, 2015
Exactly as I suspected. You are disingenuous.

Aug 09, 2015
You just lost your own game.

Good-bye!

Aug 09, 2015
You just lost your own game.

Good-bye!

(both sides need to agree to a wager before it is contracted)

How naive are you anyway?

disingenuous

Aug 09, 2015
@ glam-Skippy. Truce for just the moment, okeeyi?

You just lost your own game.

Good-bye!


Look, there is no reason you got leave over that or anything else. I really wish you would not. If you don't leave I will quit having the fun with you if you don't say some thing TO ME about anything, Okayeei?

Aug 09, 2015
denglish
You guys just don't get it. IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ANYONE BUT YOU!


I kind of agree with you. It is certainly not going to matter in the grand scheme of things. We watch our parents die of cancer, and stuff like that - and if we are thoughtful people - we understand that any day it could be our turn to go the doctor - and be told we have just a few weeks left. So maybe getting on physorg - and joining in the fray of comments - is how I decide to spend a little time. I am glad that it does not matter to you - but think that once again you behave in a profoundly contradictory manner. Stating that something does not matter to you - and then spending huge amounts of time demonstrating that it actually does matter to you.


This was well said g.o.. I think you have hit on another contradiction of this poster that is shared by a number of others that post here to promote denialism or contrarianism.

Aug 09, 2015
I think you have hit on another contradiction of this poster that is shared by a number of others that post here to promote denialism or contrarianism

Actually, the contradiction that is on topic is high above in the thread.

1. HDD and CDD are admitted, in the paper, to not be reliable sources, yet they are used to draw a conclusion.

2. CPIM5 is used to further the conclusion, but CPIM5 has been falsified by observation.

Thus, the paper's findings are suspect at best, and flat out wrong at worst.

Aug 09, 2015
Go read the entries of otto and denglish and estevan, and see the verbiage, the personal attacks, the juvenile behavior which intimidates or disgusts serious posters
Flooders and lying fabricators and one-line sloganeers like yourself used to get routinely banned.

If the mods were doing their jobs you would be banned more times than zephyr. But you'd keep coming back wouldn't you? Such is the nature of your pathology.

You want to stay on topic? The topic is NEVER YOU.

Look at the above thread. Everywhere you post your ego-maniacal shit you attract flies. You ruin every thread you post in.

Time for you to be shitting somewhere else.

Aug 09, 2015
Thanks for the outing. Now, you are responsible for anything which happens to me or my family.

You are a vandal. You only confirmed my assertions of your character. denglish and otto are just like you folk who think this is your private game here.

It is time we ruled that only real names can post here, to get rid of the estevan and otto and denglish group of lurkers, snipers, and character assassins.


The outing is yours, George. By putting your personal info on this site it exposes you to anyone with a computer.
Look up the word vandal. Did I damage anything or hack into your computer? NO.

It may be shocking to some how easily a persons information can be obtained, but that was my point. It is all public record. The phone numbers were changed.

And your response is to have the site use only real names? Really?

Aug 09, 2015
I understand intent.

Aug 09, 2015
That's good gkam.
Perhaps then you can realize my intent, which was to show you how quickly and easily a person with bad intent could cause you damage or harm your loved ones.

Protect yourself online - don't give out your name so easily. Not everyone is as benign as you think.
Few care who you really are - your conversation on a comments site determines who you are, anything else could me made up.

To be perfectly clear on this, because you are a really dense sonuvagun, I have NO intent to damage you or anything of yours. Have a good day.


Aug 10, 2015
@Estevan57:

Delete that immediately. What you're doing is a criminal offense.
George has willingly revealed himself and should not be surprised. Theres no crime here.

For the record so has estivan, the cnc guy who owns the only cnc shop in oregon that makes lower receivers for m16s.

Or was it washington? I forget.
Please insist on real names, so their actions can be ascribed to the correct lurkers and snipers
Well we know your real name and you are the worst one-line sniper here.

But like maggnuts said, you miss the point. People posting under their real names would still be attacking you for posting lies about your past and exposing the bullshit you make up.

THAT would not change.

As I say we not only know who you are, we know WHAT you are.

Youre a lying, flooding, cheating, psychopath.

Aug 10, 2015
And you dream of me. You can't help it. Every comment I leave gets under your skin.

You can be played like a cheap kazoo.

Aug 10, 2015
You can't help it. Every comment I leave gets under your skin.

You can be played like a cheap kazoo.
And so youve admitted why youre here.

Havent you?

"... so does the psychopath construct all kinds of elaborate camoflage composed of words and appearances - lies and manipulations - in order to "assimilate" their prey.

"This leads us to an important quesion: what does the psychopath REALLY get from their victims? It's easy to see what they are after when they lie and manipulate for money or material goods or power. But in many instances, such as love relationships or faked friendships, it is not so easy to see what the psychopath is after... it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer. Just as normal humans enjoy seeing other people happy, or doing things that make other people smile, the psychopath enjoys the exact opposite."

-Youve been outed.

Youre not smart enough to remain concealed.

Your sickness is all you got.

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