Study is first to quantify global population growth compared to energy use

July 24, 2015, University of Nebraska-Lincoln

If you've lived between the year 1560 and the present day, more power to you. Literally.

That's one of several conclusions reached by University of Nebraska-Lincoln ecologist John DeLong, who has co-authored the first study to quantify the relationship between human population growth and use on an international scale.

The study compiled several centuries' worth of data from Great Britain, the United States and Sweden to profile the dynamics between a skyrocketing population and its consumption of energy from fossil fuels and renewable sources.

The data showed that energy use has generally outpaced population growth over the last few hundred years. Each generation has thus produced more energy per person than its predecessor, the study reported, even as the population has climbed from about 500 million to more than 7 billion in the 450 years analyzed by the authors.

This increasing per capita energy supply has also hiked up Earth's carrying capacity - the number of people it can sustain at equilibrium - and allowed the population to grow at an ever-faster, or exponential, rate.

"Broadly speaking, no one's really (quantified) this," said DeLong, assistant professor of biological sciences. "But it was important, because there are studies going back decades that assume this kind of positive feedback loop: We grow, we expand our capacity to extract energy, and then we grow some more."

However, DeLong and colleague Oskar Burger also found that this dynamic has shifted in the decades following 1963, when the world's population was growing faster than ever before or since.

During the subsequent half-century, the ratio between energy increases and population growth has narrowed, with the former now aligning more closely to the latter. A 1:1 ratio would theoretically limit the planet's population to a linear rather than exponential growth rate.

"I do think this should challenge our assumptions about future ," DeLong said. "The study supports conventional wisdom to a degree, but it also reminds us that (abundant energy) is maybe not something that we can count on indefinitely.

"Our study sort of plays into a deep cultural philosophy that we have the creativity and ability to solve whatever problem comes our way. The evidence shows that, from an energy point of view, we've done that a lot. But maybe that's not a guarantee."

While analyzing the data, the researchers also spotted unexpected fluctuations in the population-energy relationship at certain points in history. After closer scrutiny, they discovered that per capita energy yields fluctuated during times of socio-economic and environmental upheaval: the Little Ice Age, the Industrial Revolution, World War I and II, the oil crises of the 1970s.

Though DeLong emphasized that the data will not allow researchers to determine whether this instability actually drove changes in energy use - or vice versa - he acknowledged that the overlaps warrant further study.

"It's a cautionary tale, perhaps," DeLong said. "The human socio-economic system is a complex one with a lot of moving parts. Those things are really unpredictable, but generally speaking, we think about complex systems as relying on a stable throughput of energy.

"I think the timing of those peaks in variability tells us that we should be thinking about this in two ways: how what other countries do influences the energy supply, and how to maintain those flows without generating downstream problems."

DeLong said the study's insights might also help inform and refine population projections. The United Nations currently projects, with 95 percent confidence, that Earth's population in the year 2100 will sit between 9 billion and 13 billion people.

"In the back of our minds, it definitely is a goal to make better, more mechanistic forecasts," said DeLong. "What we're saying is: Every other population on the planet depends on energy to fuel their activities and maintain their bodies. Ours must, too."

Explore further: World population not likely to stabilize at 10 billion people

More information: PLOS ONE Published: June 19, 2015. DOI: 10.1371/journal.pone.0130547

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Returners
2.6 / 5 (5) Jul 24, 2015
it also reminds us that (abundant energy) is maybe not something that we can count on indefinitely


Eventually people will figure out Wind and Solar, as well as electric vehicles. We actually only use a tiny shred of the energy available to us from the Sun, it's just a matter of making economical harvesting mechanisms. Solar Thermal is low tech and about twice as efficient as PV, but it consumes a lot of water, which many locations may not have. It is possible to make hot-air driven solar thermal towers, but they aren't as efficient.

Earth's population in the year 2100 will sit between 9 billion and 13 billion people.


This is reasonable considering parts of Africa are still lagging significantly both in technology and infrastructure as well as the development of the smaller, more stable nuclear family. It took several generations for the average U.S. family to go from very large child-per-woman ratios down to the ~2 per woman ratio that it has now.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2015
Ironically, a few of the nations in Africa who don't have a lot of fresh water to use for solar thermal electricity generation could nevertheless benefit from solar thermal desalination facilities to power a more sustainable water infrastructure. Interior nations could make treaties and trade agreements akin to the U.S./Canada Alaska pipeline, but in this case to transport massive amounts of desalinated water to the interior nations who also struggle with infrastructure. This won't prevent droughts and famines in the short term, but in the long term I think it would alleviate the problem through replenishing and replacing the ground and river water consumption.

These are technology and infrastructure Africa will need to develop in order to sustain any conceivable growth rate and living standard, and they also need a strong government for their nations to over-throw all the corruption and warlords in the region too.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 24, 2015
IN a certain sense, presently "less developed" nations may actually be at an advantage, as they can plan a solar-wind-electric infrastructure from the ground up, whereas nations like the U.S. which have cities of millions of people in some cases, and sometimes need to transport goods 1000miles across land from a port, they'll will have a harder time adapting to the total replacement of fossil fuels.

I talk about fresh water a lot, and that may seem odd, but fresh water is actually the most valuable natural resource on Earth, with Lumber coming in a very distant second place.
SciTechdude
not rated yet Jul 24, 2015
IN a certain sense, presently "less developed" nations may actually be at an advantage, as they can plan a solar-wind-electric infrastructure from the ground up, whereas nations like the U.S. which have cities of millions of people in some cases, and sometimes need to transport goods 1000miles across land from a port, they'll will have a harder time adapting to the total replacement of fossil fuels.


This is like the Cellphone adoption in Asia vs. the US. The US was crippled by a hundred years of copper wire and regulation and monopolistic phone companies. Then along came cell phones, and Japan, china, misc Asian countries skipped land lines entirely and suddenly all of them have cell phone coverage that is way better than ours. Plus they have smaller (with the exception of china) massed of land to cover with reception.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
"...population has climbed from about 500 million to more than 7 billion in the 450 years analyzed by the authors".

Regardless of wars, hunger and disease? Based on these statistics, how it would rise the human population for million years? It seems that will be rapidly climbing. Only a few quintillion or more persons?


Louis Pasteur is directly responsible for the population explosion. The invention of sterilization and scrubbing of hands prevented infections of new-borns, greatly increasing infant survival rate.

The discovery of anti-biotics greatly increased the rate of recovery from infection when they occur.

The discovery of the modern Vaccine totally eradicated some of the worst diseases in human history, and keeps many others in check compared to historical levels.

With vaccines for all of the worst diseases, both common ones and novel strains, child mortality dwindled by a factor of 5, and life expectancy of survivors of childhood has doubled.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
I give Pasteur 3 of the top 5 discoveries/inventions of all time.

Pasteur also invented pasteurization of both canned goods and milk, which increased their shelf life from a few months to at least 5 years or so in the case of canned goods, even without refrigeration.

Samuel Morse gets 1 of them for the invention of the telegraph, which eventually lead to phones, computers, and the internet.

The electric refrigerator rounds out the top 5 all-time discoveries/inventions, as it saves so much waste and pollution, and now with refrigerated semi-trailers, the ability to preserve and ship produce and meats allows a food infrastructure which is stable, greatly increasing reliability of food, reducing the percentage of the population needed to work in the food industry due to so much savings of produce, and preventing droughts and famines from causing mass death, at least in developed nations which have this technology readily available.
PeakSpecies
5 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2015
Much of the growth was derived from the extraction of fossil fuels, especially during the later-half of that period. That was stored energy that was created by sunlight over a period of tens-of-millions of years. Much of it has been tapped with it's waste product, CO2, dumped into the atmosphere during the last 250-years. The vast majority of the world's rapidly growing 7.24-billion humans don't have a clue about that dynamic and continue to reproduce as if the future looks bright for us.

Human hubris and sense of great superiority will cause us to try to prevail as we take down the life support systems of this planet. As a result we will take tens-of-millions of other species along with us.

Those who have lived over 60-years are well aware that many of the dream solutions of their youth never went anywhere. Most youth have little historical perspective on such things.
RichManJoe
not rated yet Jul 25, 2015
As opposed to the above tongue waving, a couple of graphs would have been quite elucidative.

But, in any case, seems to add a new dimension to Malthus' arguments. Much of Adam Smith's treatise can be interpreted on how the availability of energy, or lack thereof defines the well being of the population. For example, many villages are founded along waterways allowing boats to carry wares to and from the cities, connecting to an import / export trade. Also, water provided energy for the mills. Worth a read if one is interested in history of energy and wealth.
denglish
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
One wonders if this article is an appetizer to actually justifying some sort of forced population control.

The methods of energy that support population are already under attack. Is justifying totalitarian population controls as a way to save the planet the next point of rationale in the battle against modern society?
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
I am actually disturbed by the way smartphones control people's lives now.

Groups of young people don't even really talk to one another in person, as they are tied into their smartphone texting someone else 20 miles away while at work or school...and they don't even look up to greet someone when they walk by, nor acknowledge anyone when greeted by another person, as they are just plugged into the phone, with ear plug in their ears and texting or gaming at all times, even when it is socially inappropriate and annoying.

Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
One wonders if this article is an appetizer to actually justifying some sort of forced population control.

The methods of energy that support population are already under attack. Is justifying totalitarian population controls as a way to save the planet the next point of rationale in the battle against modern society?


The centralization of accumulated wealth in the hands of a few individuals, as corporations grow bigger, but still only have one CEO and a few big stock owners, along with the invention of some instances of fully automated production and logistics facilities means that eventually the lower and middle class will literally be removed from the work force, and there will be no place for them. There can only be so many "gourmet cupcake" stores before they can no longer make a living individually, and there can only be so many "small bands" before they can no longer make a living, etc.

Not everyone can be an entertainer or athelete.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
Many,many middle class "white collar" jobs are actually completely obsolete.

For example, a smart, automated tax system combined with complete conversion to electronic currency could completely remove the need for Accountants and Tax preparers.

Automated greeting systems and order-taking programs, such as those used by pharmacies, usually work faster and more accurately than a human.

The facility that makes all the worlds "Lego" toys is fully automated, with only like one human worker (like the Jetsons) and it does all the production, packaging, stocking, and loading without any human assistance. The rise of newer, viable 3-D printing will make that possible in the production process of countless, more practical and economical products currently made and organized by human workers.

The machine replaces perhaps 100 laborers and technicians, and creates about 10 new maintenance and engineering jobs.

Do this in enough industries and 90% of people have no job.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
So while the choice to automate industry makes perfect sense from the perspective of a stock holder or a CEO, it nevertheless impoverishes or otherwise works contrary to the "average" citizen. Even those with a few tens of thousands of dollars in the company stock don't necessarily benefit, because the global impacts to the economy for losing those 90 jobs means that the average employee in nearly any field makes less income relative to inflation...and this trend will unfortunately continue under this corporate model, as there is no mechanism to "fix" the wealth disparity when less than 1% of people own all these automated facilities, while massive amounts of people all over the world face unemployment as they simply are not needed to support the production of any goods or services. So then you have a full supply of goods and services available, but for some nations 10, 20, even 30% of certain demographics have been unemployed for years, and can't buy products anyway,
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
I was unemployed for 6 consecutive years following the 2008 bubble crisis, through no fault of my own, putting in hundreds of applications and hundreds of job interviews.

I was recently hired (finally) for a real job, not the one I would want or wish for, but it pays, so I'll take it. The HR manager couldn't believe how rigged I was and how bad a stroke of bad luck I've had, when they hired me, I had trouble finding professional references, because some of the companies I had worked for in the past no longer existed, and there were no updated contact information available for former supervisors. I was lucky to be able to get in contact with the few peopel I did, and they finally hired me.

The job I will be doing is technically obsolete, and could be replaced by a robot or some combination of slightly more automated systems, at nearly any time, and I am totally aware of this, but what are you gonna do? I don't want to live the rest of my life on disability.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
While bored one day about 3 years ago, I actually described in technical detail, on Wunderground weather forums, a way to automate this type of job, although I had another, already highly automated company in mind, and the automated equipment would pay for itself in saved wages and insurance costs within the first year of activity. That particular company is now using a system similar to my idea for part of its operations at some locations, although they haven't fully implemented it yet on the scale it technically can be done. This removed several thousand workers from their work force the day it was implemented....and it didn't create several thousand jobs. It's so elegant it only creates a few new mechanics and engineer jobs compared to wiping out thousands of workers' jobs.

After this scenario I had mixed feelings. On the one hand Joy because I was right. On the other hand feeling sorry for those who were hurt by it, including myself because of increased jobs competition.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
In order to create "new jobs" you have to actually invent new products and services that people actually want, and these new products and services cannot merely "compete" with existing products and services (all that does is move existing jobs around a little).

It must be a new product or service which is not easily automated via already existing manufacturing and logistics facilities, else it won't create very many new jobs. It's not hard to install one or two new production lines per facility to make a new product that is technically similar to existing products.

So you cannot magically create new jobs or new economy by waving your hands or passing new laws, the way Presidents and Congressmen promise to do. That is simple bullshit that doesn't work in the vast majority of cases.

Even a project for full conversion to wind and solar for the U.S. would not technically create jobs in the long term. In fact, it would reduce jobs by removing coal and oil workers.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
"The discovery of the modern Vaccine totally eradicated some of the worst diseases in human history, and keeps many others in check compared to historical levels."

For sterilizations you are right. This contribute to a lower mortality. But Louis Pasteur was born on December 27 1822 , and until then the human population also has been growing at a decent pace. It is interesting to note that in the countries with most rapid growing population the hygiene is not a high standard and water and food resources are in limited quantities. Moreover the possitive efects of the vaccines for the organisms are highly questionable, but for sure causing quite often chronic autoimmune diseases. The vacsines bypass protective mechanisms of the digestive system that are part of the immune system of the humans.
denglish
1.7 / 5 (6) Jul 25, 2015
Not everyone can be an entertainer or athelete.

My God, you are apologizing antequam factum for totalitarian population control.

I was unemployed for 6 consecutive years following the 2008 bubble crisis, through no fault of my own

Yes, of course. And everyone in prison is innocent.

I am totally aware of this, but what are you gonna do?

Get an education that leads to a marketable skill.

Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
Like if we had full conversion to wind and solar, during the years it takes to make that transition it would create jobs, but once saturation occurs and the more complete the conversion, the fewer coal and oil workers would be needed. There are currently several million Americans who work in the coal and oil industry directly, not to mention manufacturing supporting those industries directly or indirectly. These industries require constant human labor and baby-sitting.

Once installed, wind and solar systems only require a few maintenance workers to check them out once in a while, a job a handful of people can do for an entire operation, and they produce energy for 30 to 50 years.

This conversion will single-handedly remove possibly 3 million or more jobs from the U.S. jobs market when it is finally done, some day in the future, and as stated, they won't be "replaced".

It will disrupt the stock market. It will disrupt the way "panic" markets work, etc.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
Get an education that leads to a marketable skill.


I have more formal education than the majority of people in the white collar work force, including 5 or more levels of mathematics and science courses than the majority of people in the white collar work force, and I am 4 standard deviations above the mean in clerical aptitude in addition to all of that, and I read about 3 times faster and retain about twice as much as the typical person in the work force, and I type faster, and with fewer errors than the typical white collar worker.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
Only in the societies in which people have mostly selfish attitude, the birth rate is negative regardless of the best material conditions. Selfishness is incompatible with happines and life.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
Only in the societies in which people have mostly selfish attitude, the birth rate is negative regardless of the best material conditions. Selfishness is incompatible with happines and life.


The birth rate is negative because the cost of living and the cost of raising children in the united states seems to go up exponentially, while average income levels often don't even keep up with base inflation.

"Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore get Wisdom, and with all your getting, get understanding."

Given people often aren't even stable to live on their own until their 30's now, it is unwise to have more than one or two children, because the parents will be providing full support for at least 18 to 24 years, and partial support for another 6 years.

In contrast, the way the economy worked a few generations ago(grandparents), people could become self-sufficient and even have money to buy a freaking 20 acre plot of land in Louisiana by the time they were 18 years old.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
And to show how screwed up things are...

My Grandfather dropped out of school in the sixth grade (but was hideously intelligent) and he married a highschool valedictorian(my grandmother) who never got a job her whole life.

He worked for a logging company during his early teens, and then became a diesel mechanic for an oil company working off-shore in the engine room for the rest of his career, and retired when he was about 50, with a couple hundred thousand dollars in savings in mutual funds.

He often referred to people like YOU PEOPLE ON HERE as "Educated fools," and in most cases he was quite right.

He died when I was 18, and I have clear memories from when I was 3, and don't remember him having a job at that time, so he must have been 50 years old that year, which means he retired at 50 or less.
Uncle Ira
3.2 / 5 (9) Jul 25, 2015
I have more formal education than the majority of people in the white collar work force, including 5 or more levels of mathematics and science courses than the majority of people in the white collar work force, and I am 4 standard deviations above the mean in clerical aptitude in addition to all of that, and I read about 3 times faster and retain about twice as much as the typical person in the work force, and I type faster, and with fewer errors than the typical white collar worker.


Skippy I don't have any of that stuffs and I got the job that pays over $90 thousand a year. So that must mean you have some other stuffs to go right along with your above the average qualifactioning. Do you think that your mental conditions have anything to do with it? Do you think anybody here wants to hear more of your boohooing about how bad the world treats you? Suck it up Cher and take control of your life, nobody here can help you.
Returners
1.8 / 5 (5) Jul 25, 2015
Hey uncle idiot:

My four years younger brother-in law graduated high school with a "C" average, and because of some family connections got a job with Ford right out of high school for about 2 years, then they transferred him to the district parts sales and he makes about 110k per year....doing a job that requires less skill than I have in my left pinky.

What's the difference?

Random chance plus opportunity.

Whenever I applied for their job fair, they wouldn't hire me, even though I had years of Quality experience and other experience, on top of a better GPA and much better overall education.
denglish
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
I have more formal education than the majority of people in the white collar work force, including 5 or more levels of mathematics and science courses than the majority of people in the white collar work force, and I am 4 standard deviations above the mean in clerical aptitude in addition to all of that, and I read about 3 times faster and retain about twice as much as the typical person in the work force, and I type faster, and with fewer errors than the typical white collar worker.

And you can't get or hold a worthwhile job. You are doing something very, very, wrong.

Could it be that you openly envy others, and also don't take accountability and ownership for outcomes as you have demonstrated in this thread?

But again...what does any of that have to do with an article positing the justification of totalitarian pop control through the limiting of technology?

Uncle Ira
3.2 / 5 (9) Jul 25, 2015
Whenever I applied for their job fair, they wouldn't hire me, even though I had years of Quality experience and other experience, on top of a better GPA and much better overall education.


Like I said up there Cher. Your mental conditions is pretty hard to hide here on the physorg, in person it probably really stands out even more.
Returners
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
And you can't get or hold a worthwhile job. You are doing something very, very, wrong.

Could it be that you openly envy others, and also don't take accountability and ownership for outcomes as you have demonstrated in this thread?

But again...what does any of that have to do with an article positing the justification of totalitarian pop control through the limiting of technology?


I was forced to "voluntarily resign" from my QA job due to a minor data entry error, which cost the company zero money BTW, involving a database which required us (on night shift) to sometimes "back up" the time for data collected at say, 11PM, because during the time it took to study our samples the data might go in the computer at like 12:30am on the next day. Once in a while, I forgot to reset the date and time on the data entry. The data was in the computer and easily retrievable and fixable, but I got forced to "resign", technically "fired".
viko_mx
1 / 5 (2) Jul 25, 2015
In "developed" (according to what criteria?) societies the people can not afford more than two or even one children because they focus on the material values and carnal passions with the wrong excuse that life is short and they want to get everything from it without wanting to be responsible for their their own actions and decisions. They can rush, but can not wait. They want to take from others but not to give something from themselves. Such people can not be happy. They even can not create normal healthy families based on honest and sincere relations. The natural consequence of such an unnatural way of thinking and lifestyle is degradation and corruption.
Returners
1 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
After that forced resignation, no company hired me for a full time position ever again.

I couldn't even get part-time or minimum wage jobs while I was trying to look for a real job.

When I worked for them, I was always 15 minutes early and clock out late when needed, and volunteered to take any and all overtime when other people were sick or just wanted to take off for a date night or whatever, and they "fired" me over a data entry error that didn't even cost the company 1 cent.

After that, no matter where I applied all I got was "three interviews and we'll call you" (HR speak for "you're not hired") responses.

While employed, I have never missed work unless I was sick(tooth problem) or due to a prior engagement, and have never missed work without informing my manager days or even months ahead of time.

Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015

viko_mx:
The natural consequence of such an unnatural way of thinking and lifestyle is degradation and corruption.


What do you expect?

Liberals have banned any concept of objective morality from discussion, labeling anything remotely resembling a stance for the nuclear family as "hate speech".

When an atheist organisation now has a spokesperson saying "I am so-and-so and I'm an atheist and I'm not afraid of God or hell."

This is the message you send everyone:

You're just a worthless accident of an Ape, and there is no such thing as a God, Creator, or ultimate judge or right or wrong, do whatever you want, whenever you want.

The atheist religion and "subjective morality" is required to be taught in schools, but anything opposing the atheist religion or opposing "subjective morality" is not allowed to be mentioned in school, in the media, even in a pastor's sermon on his own web channel.

You can blame the far left of the democrat party for that friend.
Uncle Ira
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 25, 2015
@ Returnering-Skippy. Cher I mean this out of kindness me. Maybe you should slow down today. The last couple of times you traveled this trail here on the physorg it led right into a trip to Mandeville or Jackson again.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
You can blame Dr. Phil and Dr. Drew for that, for marginalizing and labeling as "hatred" anyone who criticizes transgenderism and other "unnatural affections". Instead of TREATING these mental disorders, these two household name psychologists promote the mental disorder and even call it "normal". And then they force congress to pass laws, and the courts to interpret laws, in such a way that corporations have to adopt policies of firing anyone who takes a stance against such things, or pretty much any objective morality stance on anything.

"Subjective Morality" and sodomy is the bane of civilization. It has destroyed countless civilizations throughout history, and the left claims they are the ones about education, but they ignore history, and call you a "homophobe" or a "hatemonger" when you point it out.

Hedonism. The idea that they are going to do what they like when they like, regardless of the moral implications or consequences.
gkam
1.5 / 5 (8) Jul 25, 2015
Returners, do it yourself. Write a program and sell it somehow. Go out on your own, if you can. We get so used to being in one plane of existence we forget we can broaden our horizons.

I suggest, (out of ignorance of your life), to think of doing something different with your skills. Branch out. Keep growing, it will pay off eventually. I changed jobs every few years because doing the same thing every day was no fun anymore. After a while, it paid off as I saw interrelationships, techniques, technologies, and ways of thinking from all of them.

Got an idea of how to get a phone to beep when a suspicious code is suspected? Anything like that? How would your broadest and deepest knowledge be employed in other stuff? Can you teach?

Whatever you do, keep growing, and it will pay off. Sorry about the lecture, but you have a brighter future than it looks like right now. I am george@kamburoff.com. My daughter places programmers. Send me a note if you wish.
denglish
2 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
After that forced resignation, no company hired me for a full time position ever again.

Like I said, you're doing something wrong.

I suggest beginning with introspection. Don't envy people. Take accountability for, and own, outcomes.

Trained HR people can detect destructive thought patterns. I suggest that you remove them from your repertoire.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
After that forced resignation
Hey george how many times did this happen to you? About a dozen maybe?

As we know, HR depts were instituted to verify credentials rather than relying on dubious claims from seasoned bullshit artists... and of course to identify lying psychopaths.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
After that forced resignation, no company hired me for a full time position ever again.

Like I said, you're doing something wrong.

I suggest beginning with introspection. Don't envy people. Take accountability for, and own, outcomes.

Trained HR people can detect destructive thought patterns. I suggest that you remove them from your repertoire.


I have no destructive thought patterns.

What sort of accusation is that?

I have a spotless criminal record, and the only charge that was ever brought against me for anything the police dropped because they knew that other person was lying.

This place is rich.

Point out social injustices and otherwise incompetences in civilization and you get blamed and treated as a criminal.

Accusing me of having destructive thought patterns is prejudicial and just plain wrong.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
Let's see another example of how screwed up the U.S. really is.

As we all know, boko haram has been operating for quite some time in Africa, kidnapping children and generally terrorizing innocent Christians, but because there was no Oil or Nukes involved, the U.S. has done nothing about it in the past. Now all of a sudden, because the President is on a trip to Kenya, the U.S. started making drone strikes on African terror organizations, not because the government actually gives a damn about African Christians being murdered, raped, kidnapped, or brainwashed by terrorirists, but rather just to protect one man from the U.S.

And, "Oh by the way, banning sexual oriented mental illnesses is wrong..." Paraphrase of Obama.

When the President leaves, the U.S. will probably pull back the forces and let the terrorists have the place again.

This is the hypocritical evil civilization I live in.

Obama lecturing someone else on what is right or wrong. This guy should be impeached.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
Those people cried for help to the U.N. and the U.S. years ago, and because there was no oil to be gained by helping them, the U.S. just let the terrorists do what they wanted, especially under both Obama and Bush.

God will not hold them blameless.

You think I have bad intentions?

Take a look around at the people who "lead" our nations. They are crooked and corrupt in every way, and yet you accuse me of "having destructive thought patterns"?

You are clearly quite confused.

Obama is the one who originally armed Isis, and now Obama has given the Turks the go-ahead to bomb Kurds as part of a deal to get the Turks to fight Isis, and the Kurds are the only group in Iraq which actually supported the U.S. as a general rule.

This man, Obama, is a traitor and a back-stabber...and the evil monster has the gall to tell another world leader what is right or wrong regarding laws against the sexual perversion mental illnesses which Dr. Drew hypocritically promotes.

denglish
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 25, 2015
I have no destructive thought patterns.

You were fired by no fault of your own. You resent your Brother In Law for his professional success. You cannot get hired by no fault of your own. You have plenty of destructive thought patterns.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
within one day of striking this new deal with the Turks, the Turks didn't go after the Kurds in their own nation! They flew past Syria, down to Iraq, and bombed the very same Kurds our military has been attempting to train and assist in fighting Isis and Al-Qaeda!

Now Obama has like a 4 way war going between Syria, terror groups, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey, and he actually assisted in arming all of the groups except Iran.

It was his policy, along with Hillary Clinton, of arming the Islamist rebels in Syria's civil war, which empowered Isis to become as big as they are.

He is passed off as a "pragmatist", but in reality Obama has the blood of hundreds of thousands of civilians on his hands both, directly and indirectly, across roughly ten nations right now by the time you count the non-intervention in Africa.

That is destructive thoughts...coming from our "Nobel peace prize" winning African non-American President.
Returners
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
I have no destructive thought patterns.

You were fired by no fault of your own. You resent your Brother In Law for his professional success. You cannot get hired by no fault of your own. You have plenty of destructive thought patterns.


I don't resent him.

It's not his fault this civilization is so screwed up.

I pointed that out to show "Uncle Ira" that a lot of the crap is really just bad luck vs good luck, but that seems to be lost on you.

And yeah, by the way, the company that fired me had no problem keeping perpetual drunks and a few ex-cons on their rosters.

It is not "Envy", you false accusers.

It is common freaking sense. You don't fire a perfectly honest person, one who always shows up and never turns down overtime, for a ridiculously minor mistake, while keeping misdemeanors and potential felons on the clock.

That's the treatment I got from past employers, because I wasn't going to lie on their behalf either.
denglish
1 / 5 (4) Jul 25, 2015
Ira was ignored on my first day. That person is obviously an idiot.

Keep blaming others. It will get you where you want to go.
gkam
1.6 / 5 (7) Jul 26, 2015
Yes, denglish, listening:

"Keep blaming others. It will get you where you want to go."
denglish
1 / 5 (3) Jul 26, 2015
Yes, denglish, listening:

"Keep blaming others. It will get you where you want to go."

Stolen Valor, false claims re: education and experience.

Blaming others hasn't gotten you very far either.

Back on topic, technology that enables our population to flourish is good; not bad.
pauljpease
5 / 5 (3) Jul 28, 2015

"Get an education that leads to a marketable skill."

Unfortunately, there simply aren't enough decent paying jobs. Your argument sounds like "you should just be in the top 5% of people/professions", but obviously not everyone can be in the top 5%. If everyone took your advice then those labor markets would be flooded, and those jobs would then pay less, creating just another problem. Not everyone can be an engineer, lawyer, doctor or programmer. And society doesn't need them to be. And in fact just like working class jobs, those jobs are losing value too. The cost of education is also climbing. Even law and medical school graduates are struggling to pay off student loans these days, and are getting burned out as corporate execs try to squeeze ever more productivity out of fewer and fewer workers. There is a systemic flaw in our economic system/labor market and the current trends are not sustainable. I make less money now, after getting a PhD, than I did 15 years ago w/ BS
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Jul 28, 2015
" I make less money now, after getting a PhD, than I did 15 years ago w/ BS"
-----------------------------

I was warned to not go farther than my MS, because it did not pay off. My worry was being narrowed down to one tiny slice of professional life. I had to change jobs many times, because after a while, they are just jobs, doing the same old stuff. Some folk like that, but it smells like death to me.

And I have not worked directly in the field in which I got the MS, but applied what I learned there in other fields.
denglish
1 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2015
I make less money now, after getting a PhD, than I did 15 years ago w/ BS

Sorry, you've done something very wrong then.

Look at gkam. Even with a false MS, that person seems to be doing pretty good! Or so that person claims.

Of course, that person also claims that the US sold nuclear secrets to N Korea and Pakistan.

Anyway, there is no substitute for a marketable skill; and, I suppose, a good mental attitude, which seems to be ins hort supply nowadays. No one take accountability for personal outcomes anymore.

Well, its fun, but none of this has to do with using AGW to justify educing the population, which the article is an apetizer for. so, for me, the thread is kaput.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2015
I was warned to not go farther than my MS, because it did not pay off.
More lies. They dont offer phds in environmental lyricism.

Besides, your education taught you that plutonium is raining down on idaho, that fallout is the main cause of lung cancer, and that dried cow shit which you ignorantly call 'volatile solids' is the principle constituent of 'high air' pollution in the central valley.

Obviously your degree is as worthless as you are.
I had to change jobs many times, because
of your incompetence and your penchant for lying to employers about your qualifications.

This is why you hate the pros in HR depts who are trained to identify people like you before they are hired.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2015
"...population has climbed from about 500 million to more than 7 billion in the 450 years analyzed by the authors".

Regardless of wars, hunger and disease? Based on these statistics, how it would rise the human population for million years? It seems that will be rapidly climbing. Only a few quintillion or more persons?
Pops are growing fastest in religion-dominated countries. These religions have all survived by being best at outgrowing and overrunning their counterparts. Western pops have stabilized expressly because they have discarded religion as a basis of government. But they are being inundated by hordes of refugees from those religion-dominated cultures.

Read your book. "Be fruitful and multiply, fill up the earth (with more of us and fewer of them).

This is why they present an existential danger to the future of mankind.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
If the crank otto did not exist, I might have had to invent him. Without him, I would have no excuse to discuss what I have done and he has not.

otto thought my job as an Electronic Engineer for National Semiconductor was the exactly the same as my position as Plant Engineer for a large iron foundry, or as Research Engineer working on contract for NASA, DCPA, and the NRC.

Gosh, otto, they were all completely different. Imagine that! And when I started solving power quality problems in the facilities and factories of PG&E customers, I got to use all that experience.

Imagine that.

What did you do?
gkam
1 / 5 (3) Jul 29, 2015
Uncle Ira
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 29, 2015
Without him, I would have no excuse to discuss what I have done and he has not.


Psst, Skippy, in case you did not know, your old and very first postums are still on here. You was telling us all how wonderful your gifts to, to, to, well to everything you ever come into the contact with since your 2nd and 3rd postums.

my job as an Electronic Engineer for National Semiconductor was the exactly the same as my position as Plant Engineer for a large iron foundry, or as Research Engineer working on contract for NASA, DCPA, and the NRC.


Don't forget the part of inventing a electric battlefield for Roberst McNamara.

they were all completely different. Imagine that! And when I started solving power quality problems in the facilities and factories of PG&E customers, I got to use all that experience.


Skippy you left off the part about teaching 33,000 engineers all the good stuffs

What did you do?


Just normal stuffs and have fun doing it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
my job as an Electronic Engineer for National Semiconductor was the exactly the same as my position as Plant Engineer for a large iron foundry, or as Research Engineer working on contract for NASA, DCPA, and the NRC
Yes and apparently you were very bad at all of them.

How many george? 15? 20?
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
Look me up, Ira. I am real, and you are just three letters hiding someone who is scared to reveal himself. Them-there little jokes of yours are really funny, but hide your fears for your ego.

I had the guts to reveal who I am, but you do not. Are you just another sniper? What is is with those of you who refuse to grow up and take responsibility for your words and actions? Are you all cowards??

BTW, the name of the tugboat was the Cheryl Ann, and the Captain was played by Preston Tucker. If you were real, you would know that.
Uncle Ira
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 29, 2015
Look me up, Ira


I looked you up. There is nothing you have ever postumed that would cause anybody to believe your tall tales Skippy. Not one thing. Saying there was special proof in any of that stuffs won't make it be there, but you hope nobody else will do the looking up.

I had the guts to reveal who I am, but you do not.


You had the guts to lie about what you done. Non, I do not have that kind of, of, "guts".. I'm just Ira-Skippy who is nothing special to anybody but my family and neighbors.

Are you just another sniper?


Skippy, I reminded you about how every think you postumed is still here. You came into this place from day one sniping at peoples, BEFORE I wrote you any thing. BEFORE otto-Skippy wrote any to you. You started on day one the with snide sniping, and day two started with "in my 20 years, blah, blah, blah" and on day three you were starting the "somebody not in the business wouldn't know that".

What? You are special Cher?
Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
P.S. for you glam-Skippy.

Are you just another sniper?


You came into this place from day one sniping at peoples, BEFORE I ever wrote you any thing. BEFORE otto-Skippy ever wrote any to you. You started on day one the with snide sniping, and day two started with "in my 20 years, blah, blah, blah" and on day three you were starting the "somebody not in the business wouldn't know that".

You are special Cher? Sniping is only sniping when it is done to you? When you do it is not sniping it is being glibby witty and so fancy? Is that how you are thinking it's going to work? Well not here Skippy. Not with me Skippy. Peoples who live in glass houses should not be chunking rocks as they Skippy-skip through the neighborhood.

I'm running out of letter spaces so I got to P.S. you again another time to answer your silly dumb tugboat show question. Get ready to get some more schooling P'tit Boug. People like you never know when to leave a crazy coonass pass him by.
gkam
1.7 / 5 (6) Jul 29, 2015
You may pass.
Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
P.S. for you glam-Skippy.

BTW, the name of the tugboat was the Cheryl Ann, and the Captain was played by Preston Tucker. If you were real, you would know that.


If you were real smart like you think you are you would know that,,,,,,

What was the name of the tugboat in the TV series of the same name? Who played the Captain?


The TV series was called the Waterfront. That was a tugboat. And I don't work on a tugboat, I work towboats. And I never even seen that TV show, it was 25 or maybe 20 years before I was born. The only reason I know more about that show than you (like all the other things that got you looking foolish) is because some of the old jacks used to talk about it and I listen and pay attention.

Elementary electricity, cities in Louisiana, power plant operations, and now tugboat television shows.That is just in threes days with this one coonass?

Laissez les bons temps rouler Skippy, how you like my way of doing things now?
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
"That is just in threes days with this one coonass?"
---------------------------------

You're the only one here. The rest of us live in civilization.

Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
You may pass.


Skippy, I was here before you got here, and I will be long after you have thrown it the towel and sling away humiliated hoping the next group that you try to puff up for don't find physorg while they are "looking you up".

Why do you think you got something more than all the other couyons who came before you? That is the rhetoric question, it don't need to be answered. All of your sort of pretender ALWAYS just know beyond any doubt they are really the sharp mental giant who can sure pull it off. You are all the same, you come in the same, and you leave the same. (Leaving as stupid as you was when you got here, but knowing you are smart, I mean.)
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
Ira, I apparently overestimated this group. Having been a professional in several areas, I expected this forum to be filled with experienced and educated folk who would discuss things from reality, not Wiki or out-of-the-orifice guesses.

Instead, I find a group of lurkers, snipers, wiki-warriors, and those with bad character attacking others. And all of those hide behind pseudonyms.

One of you, otto, already bragged to us all how he has several fake identities and uses them with his pseudonyms to play his "games" here. Is that why you are here, Ira? To play the "games" like otto?

Stumpy told me you were real, and I believed it once, but now, all I see are ego games.

You folk deserve each other. And now,you can wonder why you never get comments from those outside this band of snipers.
inorg_lsc
not rated yet Jul 29, 2015
Eventually, the energy consumers will be able to do something about removing the energy availability obstacles. www.clearvuepv.com
Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
Ira, I apparently overestimated this group.


You still don't get it Skippy. Your kind never does. Your kind ALWAYS underestimates EVERY group.

You fling out the snipes at peoples first. And it isn't fair for anybody to call you on it because life made you so superior to everybody else. Choot we should realize how special you are, you have told over and over and a lot more overs.

Skippy, I forget the science word for it, but you have that mental thing that somehow you think you are so good and smart and superior that anybody who catches in the lies must be cheating because for sure they are not smart enough to not be fooled.

Every thing you accuse peoples of doing to you are things that you usually do first.

If you were hoping to come here and boost your self esteem by playing the guy who did great things, you UNDERESTIMATED this group. The only thing you have OVERESTIMATED is just how good you are at pretending. Your kind always do that.
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Jul 29, 2015
Oh, my, there is nothing like the sight of a wounded ego.

No, I mentioned my experiences to discuss the issues at hand. You and your other folk hiding behind pseudonyms thought I was just another liar, and screamed it in ALL CAPS!

Only the folk who used their names on this forum are real, and professionals. The rest of you are just fighting with each other, while hiding from each other.

TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jul 30, 2015
I had the guts to reveal who I am, but you do not
Indeed, you are george kamburoff the guy who couldnt hold a job, who makes up facts in order to impress people, and who thinks that this sorry history makes the garbage he posts somehow true.

"A woman with a staggering record of fraud, deceit, lies, and broken promises concluded a letter to the parole board with, "I've let a lot of people down… One is only as good as her reputation and name. My word is as good as gold."

-I bet she was as proud of her name as you are of yours.

"Psychopaths are notorious for not answering the questions asked them. They will answer something else, or in such a way that the direct question is never addressed."
https://www.youtu...t-PhkFAQ
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jul 30, 2015
Skippy, I forget the science word for it, but you have that mental thing that somehow you think you are so good and smart and superior that anybody who catches in the lies must be cheating because for sure they are not smart enough to not be fooled
Psychopath. George is way beyond narcissist.
No, I mentioned my experiences to discuss the issues at hand
No, you mention your experiences because you are your own favorite issue.

Answer the question: what does watching a spy plane crash have to do with craters in the desert? You know, the ones that the goobers down at NASA were too dense to recognize?

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