Bringing microgrids to rural villages

Bringing microgrids to rural villages
The key element of the new microgrid system is the power management unit, seen at the center in this rendering. Various devices — shown here as a fan, a light, and a cellphone charger — can be plugged directly into the unit, along with lines to supply power to other houses. The unit manages the power coming in from solar panels (shown at top), and sends the power either to the devices or, if not needed immediately, to storage batteries (right of center). The display panel can provide information about usage.

An estimated 1.3 billion people around the world lack access to electricity, and as a result spend scarce resources on kerosene and other fuels for lighting. Now MIT researchers have developed a system to enable those in rural villages who can afford solar panels to share power with their neighbors, providing both income for the owners and much-needed power for the neighbors.

The key to the system, developed over two years of research and numerous trips to India, lies in a simple device the team developed that is smaller than a shoebox. The management unit (PMU) performs a variety of tasks, regulating how electricity from or other sources gets directed to immediate uses—such as powering lights and cellphones—or to batteries for later use. At the same time, the PMU monitors how much power is going to each user, providing a record that can be used for billing without a need for individual meters.

MIT doctoral students Wardah Inam and Daniel Strawser, under the guidance of electrical engineering professors Rajeev Ram and David Perreault, will head to India next week, along with several other team members, to spend the summer doing field tests of the system. Along the way, they will stop off in Seoul, South Korea, to present an account of their work at the International Conference on Power Electronics.

Earning extra revenue

Test installations will take place in two villages in the Jamshedpur area in northeastern India—one of which has no outside power source at all, and one of which is connected to the grid, but gets only intermittent access, averaging two to three hours of electricity a day.

Some people in these villages "have never interacted with this kind of technology before," Inam says of the findings from their previous trips, where they met with village leaders and residents to discuss their needs.

Bringing microgrids to rural villages
In one of the team’s visits to a village in India, they demonstrated the elements of the system to local people interested in taking part in the pilot program.

A few of the villages' houses already have small, simple solar-power systems set up to power a few low-power LED lights and charge cellphones. These early , Inam explains, will now provide their owners with an opportunity to earn revenue by selling excess power to neighbors who lack any source of electricity.

Unlike typical solar installations in the area—where every lamp, fan, or charger is hard-wired to the system—the new MIT-designed systems will allow for flexibility in adding or removing lights or other devices; adding extra power sources, including more solar panels or other sources such as diesel generators; and adding connections for additional users over time.

While most of the world's electric grid systems use AC (alternating current), the new MIT systems operate entirely on DC (direct current), which greatly simplifies setup, lowers costs, and is safer for users to operate. Since the typical uses of electricity in these settings—lighting, charging phones, and powering fans—are all either inherently DC systems or can easily be converted to DC, and solar panels by their nature produce DC, this simplification eliminates the need for multiple devices to convert DC to AC, and back again. And because it is designed to operate at less than 50 volts, the systems are not capable of delivering life-threatening shocks even if wiring gets damaged and people are accidentally exposed to bare wires, the researchers say.

Designing for local needs

Rather than bringing in a system designed by outsiders, Inam says, the idea is for locals to develop a system to meet their own specific needs and preferences. "We want to empower the people to build a grid," she explains. Already, some in these villages can afford to pay for solar installations at their homes, or can obtain a loan to finance it. But being able to sell some of that power to other nearby homes through a "microgrid" could enable users to buy larger systems, with some of the cost defrayed by power sales.

Meanwhile, those neighbors, without having to pay any upfront installation costs, would get the benefit of power for lights and charging for an estimated cost of $2 to $5 a month—"less than what they pay now for lighting, using kerosene or candles," Inam says. "For the same amount, they'll get better, safer lighting, as well as other services."

Phone charging is one high-demand service that would be met by such a system. Cellphone service is widespread in India and other developing nations, but people often have to travel to a nearby city, or pay steep prices locally, to charge their phones. In addition, the solar power would enable them to use electric fans, a serious need in this very hot region. "A lot of solar home systems now don't have that capability," Inam says.

Another advantage of the microgrid approach is that it allows for the use of larger solar panels than many single-home systems could justify. This is crucial because most solar-panel mass-production worldwide is geared toward 250-watt panels, but single-home systems are often designed for 50-watt panels, where the cost per watt is much higher.

"We think this is really scalable," Strawser says, adding that it could be profitable at many stages—for companies that provide the components, local workers who do the installations, solar panel owners who get revenue from the power, and end users who get power that not only facilitates reading and working after dark, but can also power water pumps for irrigation and other uses.

"It's a bottom-up approach," he says, in which local users—who have already contributed to the design choices through their interactions with the team—get to decide what gets installed where and when.

Saurabh H. Mehta, an energy professional in India who is not associated with this project, says that in seven years of looking at solar installations in that country, it has always bothered him "how all of the expensive power produced is not fully utilized. With this technology this certainly can change, as the owners of the system can easily supply surplus power to their neighbors. This can ultimately make the system more affordable and thus should encourage more uptake of off-grid renewable energy systems."


Explore further

Some suggest it's time to rethink which direction we point our solar panels

More information: www.icpe2015.org/

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Jun 01, 2015
...and at night-time?

How big and costly are the storage units (neither mentioned nor described)?

In the early days of supplied electricity in the U.S., DC was used (encouraged by the Edison system). One of the major problems of this system was the arcing caused by the collapse of the steady magnetic field surrounding the conductors (Lenz's Law) when switches were activated. The arcing tended to burn out their contacts and was found to be quite hazardous. Although these effects are less at 24 V compared to 250 V, what safeguards are in place so that the equipment life is prolonged?

Jun 01, 2015
I think you are concerned about the arc drawn when opening a circuit, wherein the energy contained in the magnetic field from the current suddenly collapses, injecting voltage into the wire. That was used by Henry in the Ford Coil, to charge the spark plugs. We used essentially the same thing with the old coils and breakers before electronic ignition.

If the opening of an active circuit is planned, and can be done quickly at crossover, there will be no arc. In DC circuits, it depeends on the loads and their characteristics. Arcs due to inductance are the worst, I think, and our electronics are now primarily dominated by capacitance, in the storage of the switch-mode power supply.

With the coming DC-DC systems, the problem will probably not be as large since the Reactance of the system should be much lower.


Jun 01, 2015
daqddyo asks
..and at night-time?
Batteries & the cheapest where possible. For on the spot engineering almost any differential metals in a salt solution can suffice for a time.

daqddyo asks
How big and costly are the storage units (neither mentioned nor described)?
S/H car batteries can often be had across 3rd world countries but, often insufficient understanding of how to restore some of their capacity or safety issues re the acid.

daqddyo states
..problems of this system was the arcing caused by the collapse of the steady magnetic field surrounding the conductors (Lenz's Law) when switches were activated
Only partly ie its V=Ldi/dt

daqddyo states
The arcing tended to burn out their contacts and was found to be quite hazardous. Although these effects are less at 24 V compared to 250 V, what safeguards are in place so that the equipment life is prolonged?
These issues have been addressed for decades by suitable capacitor suppressors, MOVs, Zeners

Jun 01, 2015
"These issues have been addressed for decades by suitable capacitor suppressors, MOVs, Zeners"
----------------------------------------------

Indeed.

And spark gaps where necessary.

Jun 01, 2015
gkam offerd
Indeed.
And spark gaps where necessary.
Yes true, especially in India, there are approx 5000 people who are electrocuted by stealing power from substandard failing overhead power lines using basic low voltage high curent battery jumper leads, something like 90% of them are killed !

Sometimes they bridged the higher 3KV+ lines to 240v & spark gaps essential before any surges get past the home switchboard they connect to !

Incidentally, I did a basic design for an inverter charger for the Indian market many years ago but, the agent pocketed a fair amount of money but, although I still own the IP, I won't be going back to market in that part of the world until I've finished similar projects here in Australia, this is a pic of the proof of concept dressed up first prototype :-
http://members.ii...s/Power/Indian_inverter.jpg]http://members.ii...rter.jpg[/url]

This was about 4 years after my power project in jungles of Sabah
http://members.ii...s/Power/

Jun 02, 2015
I think you are concerned about the arc drawn when opening a circuit, wherein the energy contained in the magnetic field from the current suddenly collapses, injecting voltage into the wire. That was used by Henry in the Ford Coil, to charge the spark plugs. We used essentially the same thing with the old coils and breakers before electronic ignition.


The self-inductance of the circuit, as used in the car ignition system, has very little to do with the arcing problem of low voltage DC in switches, and your description of the Ford's "vibrator" isn't accurate. It didn't operate on the arc drawn when the timer contacts open, but instead operated as an LC resonant oscillator where a capacitor snubbed the arc to preseve the contacts and collected the energy, letting the induced voltage build up over many cycles before being connected to the spark plug.

See diagram: http://ed-thelen....ion-.jpg

Jun 02, 2015
The problem of low voltage high current DC switches arcing is that there's no zero-crossing in the current, because it's continuously flowing one way, so the act of drawing the contacts apart opens up an ionized channel of air which arcs until the contacts are drawn far enough that the arc resistance goes up and it extinguishes itself. In the mean while, the arc burns the surface of the contacts and makes the switches wear out.

On turning the switch on, there's also what's called contact bounce where the contacts hit together and rapidly bounce back a few times, again drawing an arc, which can weld the switch together if there's a load connected.

With AC, the arc automatically extinguishes due to zero current in less than 10 milliseconds, because there are two zero crossings for every full AC cycle. Because of the sinusoidal voltage, the arcing only lasts for a short period around the peaks, so the wear and chances of contact welding is much less.


Jun 02, 2015
Actually, I misread the Ford Model T ignition diagram. I didn't notice the coils were drawn with two windings each.

It is a resonant LC oscillator, but the resonance is on the low voltage side, and there's two coil windings on each core, effectively acting as a simple transformer. The timer switches the low voltage oscillator on, and the transformer action of the two coils increases the voltage for the spark plugs. It doesn't use self-induction at all.

It's a similiar system as used on old Soviet valve radios to provide the high voltage when high tension batteries were not available. There was a simple buzzer circuit which provided an AC waveform, and then a transformer to turn it up to a hundred volts or so.


Jun 02, 2015
A better diagram for the Ford:

http://en.academi...8%29.jpg

Arcs due to inductance are the worst, I think, and our electronics are now primarily dominated by capacitance, in the storage of the switch-mode power supply.


Intuitively, arcing due to inductance should cause contact wear, while arcing due to capacitance should cause contact welding because of the inrush-current.

Jul 09, 2015
I disagree. Capacitors work on voltage, while inductors work on current, which causes contact pitting.

Jul 10, 2015
I disagree. Capacitors work on voltage, while inductors work on current, which causes contact pitting.


That's a very distorted understanding of electricity. Current does cause contact pitting, but the rest is nonsensical.

The current upon switching an empty capacitor into a DC source is approximately (V/R)e^(-t/RC). At the moment of switching t=0 the current is simply V/R, where R is very small, therefore the current is very large and diminishes as the capacitor fills up. As soon as the switch contacts touch, a very large current flows through the contact patch and heats the metal up to the point where it either evaporates and leaves a pit, or welds the contacts together.

An inductor behaves in the opposite way: it starts off with a tiny current which begins to grow, and upon disconnecting it develops a high voltage and relatively low current arc that usually isn't a problem.

This is literally first year physics for an EE, and other engineers too.

Jul 10, 2015
The problem with highly inductive loads is when the arc that forms between the receding contacts doesn't snuff out on its own, but some sort of resonance or self-inductance in the circuit - or a motor/generator that is still spooling - keeps generating high voltage that keeps the arc going and doesn't let the switch cut off.

Domestic appliances generally don't have those sort of inductances. They're more of a problem for grid switches and breakers, or in factories switching large motors.


Jul 10, 2015
Ah yes, I found the correct term to describe this kind of disunderstanding:

I disagree. Capacitors work on voltage, while inductors work on current, which causes contact pitting.


https://en.wikipe...vocation

Equivocation ("to call by the same name") is an informal logical fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense

A feather is light.
What is light cannot be dark.
Therefore, a feather cannot be dark.


Sailors work with currents as well, so are they to blame for switch contact pitting? :)

Jul 10, 2015
"Sailors work with currents as well, so are they to blame for switch contact pitting? :)"

There is a difference, as I teach in my Power Quality lectures. I can explain it, if you wish, no snarkiness intended.

Jul 10, 2015
" . . . but some sort of resonance or self-inductance in the circuit - or a motor/generator that is still spooling - keeps generating high voltage that keeps the arc going and doesn't let the switch cut off."
------------------------------------

The collapsing magnetic fields pump power into the circuit. The capacitance of the circuit components charge, then discharge back into the inductors, and they swap it around for a few cycles until circuit impedances take it down.

Jul 10, 2015
" . . . but some sort of resonance or self-inductance in the circuit - or a motor/generator that is still spooling - keeps generating high voltage that keeps the arc going and doesn't let the switch cut off."
------------------------------------

The collapsing magnetic fields pump power into the circuit. The capacitance of the circuit components charge, then discharge back into the inductors, and they swap it around for a few cycles until circuit impedances take it down.

Jul 10, 2015
Sorry about the double-post, my communications with this site are getting unreliable.

If you want to know why the reactance occurs like it does, it is because our system is "tuned" to 60 Hz, to pass that frequency and provide impedances to others. There can be some interesting effects and system reactions from these occurrences.

Jul 12, 2015
There is a difference, as I teach in my Power Quality lectures. I can explain it, if you wish, no snarkiness intended.


If your power quality lectures are based on a level of understanding that operates on syllogisms like, "inductors work on current and current causes pitting so inductance causes contact wear", then I'm already way past what you can teach, and I'm not even an EE.

But please do.

The collapsing magnetic fields pump power into the circuit.


Energy. It's the residual energy that keeps sloshing around.

In a simple inductive circuit, there isn't enough energy to keep the spark going more than a fraction of a single AC cycle because it's not physically possible to store very much energy in magnetic fields. The large impedance of a switch gap arc needs a lot of voltage to cross, so a tiny amount of current is enough to dissapate all the stored energy.


Jul 12, 2015
Inductive loads become a problem when the arc between the switch can't extinguish because there's a truly massive impedance that keeps the arc going.

As seen in a transmission line switch here: https://www.youtu...NY5xjy5k

Normally the arc would snub out in under 8.3 milliseconds when the AC voltage crosses zero.

The long transmission line is enough of an inductance that the current and voltage waveforms are strongly out of phase: when the AC voltage goes to zero, the current does not, and the massive amount of energy stored in the line's magnetic field doesn't have enough time to dissapate before the voltage comes back up, so the arc keeps going.

It only extinguishes because the ionized air gets hot and starts rising up, which stretches the arc longer and longer until the resistance of the arc grows too high and the current diminishes to the point that it can't maintain the arc.

Jul 12, 2015
@Eikka
You're making staggering errors about whole issue of inductance & impedance & just don't write like ANYone who has supposedly studied electronic engineering :-(

Maybe you've read lots of odd typos & weaved it into your tech view because, what comes out is not only badly incorrect but tangential, weird & belies interpretation of physics which isn't supported by evidence !

Eikka, please re-read all your posts on this thread & PLEASE snuff out/correct, clarify especially your most recent blurt - your claim:-
..because there's a truly massive impedance that keeps the arc going.
Which is complete & utter rubbish !

It seems Eikka you came across electrical concepts without key foundation or lab experience, did you actually graduate ?

If so where & when please as you don't write like anyone trained !

Focus on clarifying exactly what you tried to say re "because there's a truly massive impedance that keeps the arc going."

typos ?

Shakes head !

Sigh

Jul 12, 2015
The current and voltage are shifted by the inductance of the loads, not the transmission. As I reported before, arcing contacts on transmission breakers are typically snuffed out by a blast of SF6.

Jul 13, 2015
You're making staggering errors


Then please correct any, instead of condescending like a jerk.

there's a truly massive impedance
Which is complete & utter rubbish !


A simple mistype that should have been "inductance". You make errors sometimes. It's embarrassing, but does not warrant your reaction or your accusations.

The current and voltage are shifted by the inductance of the loads, not the transmission.


So you're thinking the line itself has no inductance or capacitance at all?


Jul 13, 2015
The current and voltage are shifted by the inductance of the loads, not the transmission.


There's these things called the Telegrapher's Equations which is a transmission line model of the line itself as an electrical load. Took me some time to find because I got the name confused with the Lineman's Equation which describes how wires sag between poles.

https://en.wikipe...quations

Basically, an real transmission line, whether a telephone wire or a HV cross-continental cable, has distributed inductance and capacitance which cause phase shifts in voltage and current along the line.

As a power quality engineer, you should know this but it appears you don't.

Jul 13, 2015
..because there's a truly massive impedance that keeps the arc going.


Which is complete & utter rubbish !

It seems Eikka you came across electrical concepts without key foundation or lab experience


Furthermore, if you want to talk about key foundations, let's talk about key foundations.

Impedance is the sum of resistance and reactance, where reactance consists of both inductance and capacitance. An impedance which consists of no resistance and capacitance is basically synonymous with an inductor.

So getting technical on it, its NOT "rubbish" to call it a massive impedance on the line because an ideal inductor is an impedance.

It's simply not what I meant to type, which should have been apparent from the rest of the message. You just caught on the first thing you could and started barking like a mad dog.

Jul 13, 2015
"As a power quality engineer, you should know this but it appears you don't."
----------------------------------------

The problems with phase shift are primarily done by inductive loads. The spacing is too high and the frequency too low for them to have a major effect from transmission. You can see the phase-correcting capacitors on the poles in distribution.

"You just caught on the first thing you could and started barking like a mad dog."

Jul 13, 2015
Eikka, in higher-frequency systems inductance and capacitance have greater effects. I thought I already talked about putting out my first product as a Test Engineer for National Semiconductor, the LM555 timer on wafers and in the mini-DIP. Every one of the over 200 electronic tests on that die were individually examined with 'scopes, looking at the initiation and receipt of the signal at both ends, from voltage and current sources to the die.

Each one had to be tuned to the length of the cable, not because of the speed of electricity in wires, but to charge the inductance and capacitance. Time was given and delays instituted until the signal was at the device. Then, all unnecessary delays were taken out, and the program was tightened up for production.

Jul 14, 2015
@ glam-Skippy. You got a few of the basic things wrong here, so I will help some me.

Capacitors work on voltage, while inductors work on current,


That is of right. Capacitors resist a change in AC voltage. Inductors resist a change in AC current. With DC, capacitors are an open circuit, and inductors are a short circuit.

The capacitance of the circuit components charge, then discharge back into the inductors, and they swap it around for a few cycles until circuit impedances take it down.


The capacitance does not change, the CHARGE changes. Impedance don't take it down, it would go on forever except for RESISTANCE causing an energy loss due to heating.

Eikka, in higher-frequency systems inductance and capacitance have greater effects.


Higher the frequency the lower the capacitance and the higher the inductance. That's why you pick the right Q values of the components for a particular frequency.

Jul 14, 2015
P.S. for you glam-Skippy.

So if you vary the voltage or the current, but hold the frequency at 60 Hz, the inductance and capacitance won't change, it is what it is at that frequency. The IMPEDANCE can change (that's the reactant and resistance.)

The terms don't mean sorta unless you are Returnering-Skippy. They have the exact meanings.

Jul 14, 2015
Ira, thanks for the response, and the chance for a debate.

"Higher the frequency the lower the capacitance and the higher the inductance."
Yes, and my point was about the effects on the line, and at higher frequencies, capacitances bleed off voltages, and inductance blocks AC current.

"The capacitance of the circuit components charge, then discharge back into the inductors, and they swap it around for a few cycles until circuit impedances take it down."

Read it again. I did not say the capacitance changed, but the charge, which flows back and forth between inductors and capacitors until it is consumed by the impedance. It's been along time, but I may be able to look up some of my old traces for you, done with the old BMI 4800 and sets by Reliable Power Meters.


Jul 14, 2015
Eikka, in higher-frequency systems inductance and capacitance have greater effects. I thought I already talked about putting out my first product as a Test Engineer for National Semiconductor, the LM555 timer on wafers and in the mini-DIP. Every one of the over 200 electronic tests on that die were individually examined with 'scopes, looking at the initiation and receipt of the signal at both ends, from voltage and current sources to the die
And how long did that temp job last? About as long as it took them to find out you werent really an engineer?

Jul 14, 2015
Ira, thanks for the response, and the chance for a debate.

Read it again. I did not say the capacitance changed, but the charge, which flows back and forth between inductors and capacitors until it is consumed by the impedance.


Cher, I don't need to read him again. The charge is on consumed by impedance, it is the energy which is lost to being converted to heat by RESISTANCE. The reactance (both the inductive and capacitive) does not consume anything. If it won't for the resistance in a tuned circuit or network, it would be a perpetual motion machine, the "charge" would just go back and forth between the capacitive and inductive parts of the circuit. But it can not do that, because there is inherent resistance in all tuned circuits.

Only debate I am having is that using the word impedance as the thing causing the energy loss is wrong, because the inductive reactance and capacitive reactance don't add to the loss ONLY the resistance.

Jul 14, 2015
It's been along time, but I may be able to look up some of my old traces for you, done with the old BMI 4800 and sets by Reliable Power Meters.


Do not look them up for me Cher, I am not the one using the not correct terminology. Maybe your talking oscilloscope got programmed wrong so the ol BMI 4800 traced out the wrong words for you.

Jul 14, 2015
" BMI 4800 traced out the wrong words for you"
------------------------------

Look up how it works before you try to analyze what you have not seen.

Perhaps you should understand impedance includes resistance. Time to read Wiki.

Jul 14, 2015
Ira, sorry to be so snappy, . . i've been dealing with you-know-who the sniper, and it carried over.

Jul 14, 2015
Ira, sorry to be so snappy, . . i've been dealing with you-know-who the sniper, and it carried over.
Gkam doesnt realize that ira is also calling him a liar.

Politeness and civility will not change the obvious george.

Jul 14, 2015
Perhaps you should understand impedance includes resistance. Time to read Wiki.


Don't need to read Wiki-Skippy, I got the real books about it. Perhaps you don't understand that impedance includes capacitive and inductive reactance, but they do not contribute to the energy loss. Reactance changes the form of a AC signal, but it does not "consume" anything, only the resistance does the consuming by making heat.

Ira, sorry to be so snappy,


Nothing wrong with being snappy. You don't need to apologize.

. . i've been dealing with you-know-who the sniper, and it carried over.


That's why if you are going to be pretending to be some kind of expert engineer, you got to double check with Wiki-Skippy before you write down the things you think you already know. That's because you should know before you come in the door that the Sniper-Skippys are going to be gunning for you.

Jul 14, 2015
Yes, and I said "Impedance", which includes any losses from resistance. But reactance generates its own losses with capacitive coupling and inductive reluctance.

Jul 14, 2015
Yes, and I said "Impedance", which includes any losses from resistance. But reactance generates its own losses with capacitive coupling and inductive reluctance.


There are not reactance "losses". Reactance does not generate heat. Reactance changes the wave form.

You should like Bennie-Skippy does not do. Well you are not ahead in the "I'm an electrical engineer game", so you should quite before you get even farther behind. Capacitive coupling what happens when you want to pass only AC and block DC. I think you are in a serious hole about understanding just what is happening in electrical stuffs. Inductive reluctance is the principle that makes reluctance motors work.

You over played your hand Skippy. I am beginning to know what Otto already knew, you are just another Bennie-Skippy claiming to be what he obviously is not.

Jul 14, 2015
No, Ira you are being victimized by too little understanding. As I said, and said, impedance includes reactances and resistances.

No, capacitive coupling is when the electric field of one conductor affects the electrons and the electric field of the conductor opposing it. Energy can bleed off this way, capacitively.

Reluctance is magnetic resistance. What would that do to the changing magnetic field? Absorb part of it? Turn to heat?

All that happens because AC is a wave, and the changing electric and magnetic fields lose power through these mechanisms.

Jul 15, 2015
No, Ira you are being victimized by too little understanding. As I said, and said, impedance includes reactances and resistances.

No, capacitive coupling is when the electric field of one conductor affects the electrons and the electric field of the conductor opposing it. Energy can bleed off this way, capacitively.

Reluctance is magnetic resistance. What would that do to the changing magnetic field? Absorb part of it? Turn to heat?

All that happens because AC is a wave, and the changing electric and magnetic fields lose power through these mechanisms.


Fine with me Skippy. Physorg is the place to be if you want to play expert engineer. You are not so very good at it, maybe just a tad better than Bennie-Skippy.

Jul 15, 2015
"Fine with me Skippy."
--------------------------

Thanks, Ira. There is more to electricity than the simple stuff you read about. Reactances store energy, higher frequencies transmit it. You have to work with it to see its effects. You have to measure them with high-frequency sampling and see how they are coupled, how they bleed off.

This is fact, it is what I taught for over 20 years to over 30,000 engineers. If you have a problem with it, it is because you did not get the entire lecture. My reviews from my seminars are from professionals in the field. I will stand them up against anybody's.

Jul 15, 2015
Let me explain, at risk of having some goober try to ridicule it.

When we deal with electricity we are dealing with the dual force in the Universe, Electromagnetism. It is not either electric effects or magnetic effects, because they are just different parts of the same animal.

An example: A fence runs for several miles on wooden posts, put up under a 4kV transmission line about 50 years old. The electrician (my dad), got called out to get the electricity off the fence, which was being induced by the parallel run of wires and the fence.

He grounded it out. What happened to the power on the fence, . . or on the line? Was power going into the line before the grounding? Were the losses greater or less for the power company after grounding? If the farmer hung lightbulbs on his 90Volt- fence, would he be stealing power from the power company? Why or why not?

Answer is next.

Jul 15, 2015
Electric and magnetic fields stress spacetime. It takes energy to do that. When the fields collapse during the AC transmission from the oscillation of values, that energy is put back into the line. If something intercepts that field, it can take that energy from the field, which does not return it to the powerline. They call it theft.

The old Ford coil and the newer non-transistorized ignition circuits in older cars used to work from that effect with the coil and the points. The sparkplugs fire in an inductive ignition system when the points BREAK, not MAKE the circuit, dumping the magnetic field created over milliseconds into the line in microseconds, giving us a spark.

Jul 15, 2015
A study of powerline disruptions and transients show capacitors cause trouble on the lines when they connect, with the full-current inrush at first "notching", or taking power out of the line. Inductors cause trouble when they shut off, as their collapsing magnetic fields inject all the energy into a source with no sink, an open circuit, so the voltage gets so high it jumps across a sparkgap, if available.

Jul 15, 2015
What we just went through is the easy part of Power Quality. When we get into harmonics and grounding, it gets more difficult.

Waveshape analysis is important in those situations.

Jul 15, 2015
This is fact, it is what I taught for over 20 years to over 30,000 engineers.


I do not believe you.The more you write the less I believe you.Even if I did believe you, why is it so important that you keep telling us that? Over and over and some more overs.

If you have a problem with it, it is because you did not get the entire lecture.


You should have left it alone and let it pass. All you done Skippy is confirm what I was already beginning to suspect.

My reviews from my seminars are from professionals in the field.


Your "seminars" were nothing more than CEU talks, on basic ohms law. And you only gave them for one group conference for three or two years. (And that don't add up to 30,000 engineers even though it was not the engineers who came to your CEU talks, they was the office type Skippys.)

I will stand them up against anybody's.


Non, Cher you will not. You will keep right on pretending they were some thing that they weren't.

Jul 15, 2015
Ira, you let your little ego-skippy get in the way. Look up some waveforms on my very old website at www.kamburoff.com. Yeah, it's crude, but I used it to get my own domain for my email address.

For reviews, the only ones I know are on the internet are for stuff I did every year for 7x24Exchange. Try Kamburoff and 7X24Exchange and see what you find.

The courses I wrote for EPRI may still be somewhere on the internet, but we started them in 1987, and did them in Ready, Set, Go, for the old Mac. Likewise, the manual I wrote and sold to the library at Sandia National Labs in Livermore.

I'm real, Ira.

Are you another otto?

Jul 15, 2015
I'm real, Ira.


You are really something Cher, but I am the real Ira.

Are you another otto?


You mean there is more than one? Hoooyeei Skippy aren't you glad that the others haven't found their way here?

Chest thumping, crowing, and bragging don't impress me much. And trying to throw in a lot of "insider jargon" is working against your cause. I was being truthful with you when I said most of the pretend engineers don't know when to quit pushing so hard because it always trips them up. (A real engineer would be smart enough to know when he's falling further behind in a project. He don't try to repair his mistakes by doubling down with what he was doing wrong.)

Brag a little more, fling some more jargon at me, I am sure that you are sure that if you try one more time it will finally work to change my mind that you already made up for me.

Jul 15, 2015
"Chest thumping, crowing, and bragging don't impress me much. And trying to throw in a lot of "insider jargon" is working against your cause"
----------------------------------

No more cause, Ira. I give up trying to make you see I am not like you, 166, and otto. Did you look up my references? Hmmm?

I was just trying to show you I am genuine and teach you some of what I know, as I have for many others. I have no idea how you folk cannot accept someone else knows more than you do.

Jul 15, 2015
You blew it, Ira, I was going to send you some course materials, but changed my mind.

Jul 15, 2015
I have no idea how you folk cannot accept someone else knows more than you do.


Skippy, grab that mule's halter, eh? I accept very well, better than most that a lot of Skippys on the physorg knows a lot that I don't know. You seem to be the Skippy having a problem being corrected on some very elementary stuffs.

I told you way back at the beginning you should just let it go and move on, but now you have attracted my attention and that very seldom goes well. You usually end up getting the kind attention that you least like, and never the attention you were chooting for.

Jul 15, 2015
You blew it, Ira, I was going to send you some course materials, but changed my mind.


Well oh golly gracious me. I was looking so forward to getting that stuffs. I was even walking down to mail box eight or seven times a day to see if it was here yet, even though I know the mailman already came at nine this morning. That's how much I was wanting it.

Skippy that is just the kind of chest thumping I was talking about. Ol Ira-Skippy might not be the smartest Skippy on the phyorg. But he is smart enough to find a book written by the expert with reviewings when he needs some course materials about anything. If I can't find the book I want at the library, the bookstore will order him for me or maybe I can find it cheaper on Amazon.

You blew it, Ira, I was going to send you some course materials, but changed my mind


How you couyons think saying these silly things does any thing for your cause? Can your books and materials be found by the bookstore or library?

Jul 15, 2015
Yeah, Ira, you're cute.

But you did not answer my question about checking those referrals I gave you. Why not?

Jul 15, 2015
Yeah, Ira, you're cute.


Mrs-Ira-Skippette tells me that all the time.

But you did not answer my question about checking those referrals I gave you. Why not?


For a brilliant genius that done every thing there is to do in electronics, electricity, semiconductor design, super duper air force spy systems, taught 30,000 other engineers every thing you know and blah, blah blah,,,, you sure aren't very smart. Or maybe somebody is giving you stupid questions to ask me.

Yeah, I checked them out me. One is the Skippys I already told you about, where you give the basic ohms law talks to the office staff for CEU's.

And I looked at your goofy interweb place that looks like something a 10 year old made up. That one was pretty funny, it was just like you do here,,, tells about how you done every thing there is to do in electronics, electricity, semiconductor design, super duper air force spy systems, taught 30,000 engineers, blah, blah, and a lot more blahs too.

Jul 15, 2015
My reviews from my seminars are from professionals in the field
What, these reviews???

"You are the best!"

"I've been an electrical engineer for over 15 years, . . . and this is the first time I really understood it!"

" Excellent! This was one of the most fruitful and educational workshops that I've had the privilege to attend"

"Mr. George Kamburoff was one of the most captivating speakers I've ever witnessed."

"Course should have been longer."

"Couldn't be better."

"Excellent seminar! So was the instructor."

"The guy was great! Bring him back."

" This guy has answered the right calling. Excellent at what he's doing,"

-George, these are not reviews. You composed them yourself. OBVIOUSLY.
I give up trying to make you see I am not like you, 166, and otto
-and ira, and antialias, and eikka, and all the others here who respect FACTS.

All the others that is, who have concluded that you are a lying piece of shit.

Jul 15, 2015
No cher-skippy, I did not design integrated circuits, I tested them. It is that kind of mistake that betrays your ignorance of the field, probably thinking it was all the same, like otto-skippy.

I knew you would discuss the age of the site rather than the ideas, which you obviously did not understand. Show me what you have done.

Ira, I had you wrong, . . I thought you were better than that.

Meanwhile, not taking exception to my discussion of electric and magnetic fields?

I'll give you an hour or two more to furtively check Wiki and other sources.

Jul 15, 2015
Meanwhile, not taking exception to my discussion of electric and magnetic fields?


You are dumber than a box of rocks. I already told you what I thought of your "discussions". It's right up there or should I repeat him? But be warned in advance, my opinion of your "discussions" has not changed, so if I repeat him, then it's going to be harder again to pretend you didn't see him and hope that nobody else sees too if they missed him the first time.

I'll give you an hour or two more to furtively check Wiki and other sources.


I don't need to check the Wiki-Skippy, That is another thing I told already before. I got the real books to check, you are the one that keeps wanting to send me to the Wiki-Skippy.

I can see that you have the fondness for saying things over and over. Asking peoples the same questions over and over and some more overs. If the answer not what you hoped for, and are disappointed, don't keep repeating the question.

Jul 15, 2015
P.S. for glam-Skippy.This is not going in your favor. You are not doing any thing that might make me think I am wrong about you. You are only proving in spade trumps that I am right on the track and Otto-Skippy had you pegged from the beginning. I don't much like Otto-Skippy's style and the bad words and stuff, but the fact he is pretty good in the "spot the phony" and he is honest makes up for that.

Now I would suggest for you that you leave this dead mule lay dead and rot because he is not going to run no matter how hard you kick him. You can walk away from this and let it get to be some thing I forget. But if you keep pressing it with me, you really are going to end up like Bennie-Skippy, the Returnering-Skippy and Really-Skippy,,, nothing more than some good big fun.

It's your call. I do not believe you. You can not make me believe you. And if you keep going on with ME about this, it won't be long before NOBODY believes you. Now would be a really good time to just drop it.

Jul 15, 2015
I won't press you for answers and expose you, cher-skippy.

Did it hurt your feelings to find out impedance includes resistance? Got any response to my discussions, technically?

You "got da books", right? The real ones, and not my course material? Straighten me out technically.

I do not care what you think or believe, I just want you to spank yourself by looking it up.

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