Heat from global warming captured by the Pacific Ocean being transferred to Indian Ocean

May 19, 2015 by Bob Yirka report
Illustration of increased trade winds in the Pacific and Indian Oceans during the recent warming hiatus, which increased the inter-ocean pressure gradient and thus enhanced Indonesian throughflow. This resulted in an abrupt increase of Indian Ocean heat content. Credit: Sang-Ki Lee

(Phys.org)—A team of researchers working in the U.S. has found what they believe to be the answer to the question of what happened to the heat uptake in the Pacific Ocean due to global warming. In their paper published in Nature Geoscience, they suggest that it has been transferred to the Indian Ocean. Jérôme Vialard with Université Sorbonne offers a News & Views piece on the work done by the team in the same journal issue.

Most scientists now agree that planet Earth is experiencing , and has been for several decades—most also agree that the cause is an influx of carbon dioxide from human activities. But recent reports that global surface temperatures stopped rising over the past ten to fifteen years, has caused some to become skeptical of the whole idea, even as many scientists have suggested that the surface temperature plateau has been caused by the worlds' oceans serving as a giant heat sink. The problem with that argument though, has been lack of data suggesting that the biggest of our oceans, the Pacific, has seen a temperature increase. In this new effort, the researchers believe they have found out why.

In studying ocean temperature data provided by NOAA covering the past several decades, the researchers found that surface temperatures for the Pacific actually decreased over the past ten years. Recognizing that the heat had to go somewhere, the researchers input the data into models that have been built to show global temperatures, wind movement and other meteorological data. The model showed heat building up in the western Pacific and then being carried by easterly trade winds through the Indonesian archipelago. Upon closer inspection, the team found that (down to 700 meters) in the Indian Ocean had in fact increased to the point that it could account for approximately 70 percent of the heat taken up by the atmosphere over the past decade.

The finding by the team appears to be both good and bad news. The good news is that it adds credence to global warming theories—the bad news is that it means that it is possible that at some point in the future all that heat in the ocean could be released back into the atmosphere, creating a sudden temperature spike which would almost assuredly cause massive worldwide problems for those of us that caused the problem in the first place.

Explore further: Pacific trade winds stall global surface warming—for now

More information: Pacific origin of the abrupt increase in Indian Ocean heat content during the warming hiatus, Nature Geoscience (2015) DOI: 10.1038/ngeo2438

Abstract
Global mean surface warming has stalled since the end of the twentieth century, but the net radiation imbalance at the top of the atmosphere continues to suggest an increasingly warming planet. This apparent contradiction has been reconciled by an anomalous heat flux into the ocean, induced by a shift towards a La Niña-like state with cold sea surface temperatures in the eastern tropical Pacific over the past decade or so. A significant portion of the heat missing from the atmosphere is therefore expected to be stored in the Pacific Ocean. However, in situ hydrographic records indicate that Pacific Ocean heat content has been decreasing9. Here, we analyse observations along with simulations from a global ocean–sea ice model to track the pathway of heat. We find that the enhanced heat uptake by the Pacific Ocean has been compensated by an increased heat transport from the Pacific Ocean to the Indian Ocean, carried by the Indonesian throughflow. As a result, Indian Ocean heat content has increased abruptly, which accounts for more than 70% of the global ocean heat gain in the upper 700 m during the past decade. We conclude that the Indian Ocean has become increasingly important in modulating global climate variability.

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Steve 200mph Cruiz
4.3 / 5 (29) May 19, 2015
A former tobacco lobbiest who would fight against cancer studies and now works for the oil companies fighting climate regulations was once quoted,
"You could take Jim Hansen [NASA/Colombia university] and I could take a garbage man, and I could get America to believe the garbage man knows more about science than Hansen."

shavera
4.3 / 5 (18) May 19, 2015
Maybe they'll make a follow up to "Thank You for Smoking": Thank You for Warming
Returners
2 / 5 (26) May 19, 2015
the bad news is that it means that it is possible that at some point in the future all that heat in the ocean could be released back into the atmosphere, creating a sudden temperature spike which would almost assuredly cause massive worldwide problems for those of us that caused the problem in the first place


First of all that's not how thermodynamics works, and it's supposedly not how AGW works either.

The CO2 in the atmosphere is supposedly holding the excess heat, so the excess heat should already be in the atmosphere. Light penetrates down to around 700meters to 900meters, and so would be the primary driver of temperature changes below the top several meters of water.

Thermodynamics dictates that temperatures in a fluid should seek to normalize so that can drive ocean currents, but what it cannot do is magically store excess heat in the ocean while not building heat in the atmosphere.
Steve 200mph Cruiz
4.1 / 5 (23) May 19, 2015
Returners,
Are you the garbage man, or do you just think he is the one with the answers?
antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (24) May 19, 2015
surface temperatures for the Pacific actually decreased over the past ten years

Oh the AGW Cult, if it's not one lie it's another.
The AGW Cult - Seek and ye shall FABRICATE.
bla
3.4 / 5 (33) May 19, 2015

First of all that's not how thermodynamics works, and it's supposedly not how AGW works either.

(...)

Thermodynamics dictates that temperatures in a fluid should seek to normalize so that can drive ocean currents, but what it cannot do is magically store excess heat in the ocean while not building heat in the atmosphere.


Returners, those of us who work with non-linear fluid dynamics (I do nothing related to climate sciences, I'm an astrophysicist) are used to see the kind of phenomena above described appearing in simulations in various contexts. I do understand your intuition, but non-linear dynamics are rarely intuitive.
Shootist
1.7 / 5 (18) May 19, 2015
"Of course [the weather] concerns me, but of course, we don't know much about the causes of those things. We don't even know for sure whether it is more variable than it used to be. I mean the worst disasters were the Ice Ages, and nobody really understands for sure the causes of Ice Ages, so I'm not saying the climate disasters aren't real, I'm merely saying we don't know how to prevent them." - Freeman Dyson

"What I'm convinced of is that we don't understand climate." - Freeman Dyson

As a general rule, if Freeman Dyson doesn't understand something, you don't, either.
RichManJoe
3.7 / 5 (12) May 19, 2015
So, at what point do we collectively bend over and kiss our royal arses goodbye?
Steve 200mph Cruiz
3.7 / 5 (18) May 19, 2015
Shootist, your philosophy will be the end of western civilization.

Freeman Dyson also freely admits humans cause global warming.
Vietvet
4.1 / 5 (13) May 19, 2015
@Steve 200mph Cruz

Sorry about the down vote. I meant to give you a "5".
antigoracle
2.3 / 5 (16) May 19, 2015
@Steve 200mph Cruz

Sorry about the down vote. I meant to give you a "5".

So typical of the the brainless, zombie, idiot of the AGW Cult.
antigoracle
1.6 / 5 (13) May 19, 2015
The lies of the AGW Cult has gone from desperate to comical.
http://wattsupwit...ew-look/
http://bobtisdale...mp;h=960
Scottingham
3.7 / 5 (6) May 19, 2015
@antigoracle now those are some reputable sources!
Maggnus
4.4 / 5 (7) May 19, 2015
So, at what point do we collectively bend over and kiss our royal arses goodbye?


Nice strawman. Or is it red herring?
antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (10) May 19, 2015
So Scott, you are questioning NOAA's data, since that's the source for the graphs.
Water_Prophet
1 / 5 (10) May 19, 2015
Heat from global warming captured by the Pacific Ocean being transferred to Indian Ocean

and that gentle readers, will really suck for those living on the Indian Ocean.

But, our consumption and subsequent release of heat from burning fossil fuels has plateaued and has exactly the right magnitude to be causing the "Pause" everyone is so skeptical of, that combined with fluctuations in the Suns output exactly and linearly correspond to this.

Why does nobody notice?
denglish
1.3 / 5 (16) May 19, 2015
Give a monkey a brain, and he will think he's the center of the universe.

We are foolish to think we can impact something as massive as the climate. We are naive to take someone's word for it, and then give them our money and economic freedom.

This so-called scientific issue is clearly drawn on party lines, with people on both sides presenting conflicting facts. Why? Is it that the political values of Big Government vs. Individual Freedom are in a power struggle?

Go our way. Give us your money and your economic freedom, or the earth will die. You aren't smart enough to know what we do, and you could never make good choices. Believe what we say, and fall in line. We will take care of you, and the planet.

Comforting, for those who can't stand in their own boots. To a person bent on exercising his right as a human to follow freewill, it is heresy.

And we put our own Mother earth in the middle. A tragedy of our own making; regardless of what is actually real.
Returners
1.5 / 5 (10) May 19, 2015


Heat from global warming captured by the Pacific Ocean being transferred to Indian Ocean

and that gentle readers, will really suck for those living on the Indian Ocean.

But, our consumption and subsequent release of heat from burning fossil fuels has plateaued and has exactly the right magnitude to be causing the "Pause" everyone is so skeptical of, that combined with fluctuations in the Suns output exactly and linearly correspond to this.

Why does nobody notice?


The Indian Ocean has been the deadliest basin for storms throughout history and the comparison is not even close to other basins, it's off by an order of magnitude, so changing it's temperature is not likely to make a big difference. Every decade or three for the past thousand years there has been a multi-thousand deaths storm in the basin, so let's not go blaming any of it on AGW. The 100k deaths storm is actually relatively common in the basin.
Water_Prophet
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2015
denglish
And yet termites have been shown to have changed the climate, algae, earthworms, what are we? Little Bow Peep?

Of course we affect the climate, in many many ways, releasing 15% of the Suns non-equilibrium energy, changing forests, CFCs, though pretty much forgotten about, smog, or do you think that a city covered in smog does nothing.

It really beggars the imagination.

Returners, I hope your right, but I don't think it will take all that much to dramatically change the IO.
jabba_the_hutt
4 / 5 (16) May 19, 2015
@shootist
"I am not an expert, and that's not going to change. I am not going to make myself an expert." -- Freeman Dyson

ubavontuba
1.4 / 5 (9) May 19, 2015
A former tobacco lobbiest who would fight against cancer studies and now works for the oil companies fighting climate regulations was once quoted,
"You could take Jim Hansen [NASA/Colombia university] and I could take a garbage man, and I could get America to believe the garbage man knows more about science than Hansen."
Judging from Hansen's history of failed predictions, it might be wiser to believe the garbage man, as he at least keeps his eye on the weather.

Steve 200mph Cruiz
4.6 / 5 (11) May 19, 2015
It's okay vietvet, I know I'm right haha
thermodynamics
4.7 / 5 (15) May 19, 2015
Uba babbled:
A former tobacco lobbiest who would fight against cancer studies and now works for the oil companies fighting climate regulations was once quoted,
"You could take Jim Hansen [NASA/Colombia university] and I could take a garbage man, and I could get America to believe the garbage man knows more about science than Hansen."
Judging from Hansen's history of failed predictions, it might be wiser to believe the garbage man, as he at least keeps his eye on the weather.



And, once again, UBA shows he does not know the difference between weather and climate. Uba you moron, If the garbage man is paying attention to weather, how does that inform him on climate?
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (9) May 19, 2015
And, once again, UBA shows he does not know the difference between weather and climate. Uba you moron, If the garbage man is paying attention to weather, how does that inform him on climate?
It's called, "experience."

Think about it.
michael_frishberg
2.9 / 5 (8) May 19, 2015
So, at what point do we collectively bend over and kiss our royal arses goodbye?

Within 100 years, maybe much less than that.
It's immoral to have children, by anyone, anywhere, anymore.

vhemt.org

classicplastic
2.9 / 5 (25) May 19, 2015
So, at what point do we collectively bend over and kiss our royal arses goodbye?


Nice strawman. Or is it red herring?


Neither. It's a metaphor.

To answer RichManJoe's question about when it's time to kiss it all goodbye: If we don't get real serious about global scale carbon capture and sequestration, you can pucker up right now because it's already way too late to "conserve" our way out of this mess.

Except for the pumping technology and development plan, here's the general idea on how we can do this: http://williamcal...mits.pdf

Exactly how we got into this bind matters not a whit in the long run. The life support system on our one-and-only planet has gone, at the risk of being too technical, cattywampus. If we don't offset excess carbon soon, we're all gonna die in the resource wars. All things considered, we deserve it. But, for the sake of tomorrow's generations, we should at least give it a whole-hearted try.
pnwmoss
3.9 / 5 (11) May 20, 2015
I'm a garbage man and I think ill side with Hansen on this one. Now what you gonna do?
Steve 200mph Cruiz
5 / 5 (7) May 20, 2015
I'm sorry for any offence pnwmoss,
It can actually be a pretty cool job, and I've known a pretty smart garbage man and a few that were great people
antigoracle
1.4 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
I'm a garbage man and I think ill side with Hansen on this one. Now what you gonna do?

So, you've become a glutton for the garbage that the AGW Cult dumps on you. Too bad no one mentioned that you were not supposed to eat that stuff.
ColoradoBob
3 / 5 (22) May 20, 2015
surface temperatures for the Pacific actually decreased over the past ten years

Oh the AGW Cult, if it's not one lie it's another.
The AGW Cult - Seek and ye shall FABRICATE.


April 2015 was Earth's fourth warmest April since global record keeping began in 1880, said NOAA's National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) on Tuesday. NASA rated April 2015 as the 3rd warmest April on record. April 2015's warmth makes the year-to-date period (January - April) the warmest such period on record, and the past twelve months the warmest 12-month period in recorded history. Nine of the ten warmest 12-month periods have occurred within the past two years (the exception: September 1997–August 1998 was tied for eighth warmest.) Global ocean temperatures during April 2015 were the warmest on record, and global land temperatures were the 10th warmest on record.

Dr. Jeff Masers
HeloMenelo
2.6 / 5 (17) May 20, 2015
surface temperatures for the Pacific actually decreased over the past ten years

Oh the AGW Cult, if it's not one lie it's another.
The AGW Cult - Seek and ye shall FABRICATE.


Antisciencegorilla really getting frisky today, C'mon monkey i have plenty bannanas ! Work those 2 braincells hard... :D (we tried to fabricate a few more braincells for you, but they just wont fit into that tiny skull of yours... ;) ) In the meantime climate change is happening at an alarming rate.
HeloMenelo
2.5 / 5 (16) May 20, 2015
Aaah watermonkey is back, nice to see you adding your thumb sucked comments on here today, working under the antisciencegorilla account must get boring hey....none the less lots of fun to be made today, and lots of bannanas to hand out, but only if you reach your target... so put those tiny braincells to work... :D
HeloMenelo
2.5 / 5 (16) May 20, 2015
Donglish wrote: Give a monkey a brain, and he will think he's the center of the universe.


Aaaah lol... how relevant and a good opening for the show, but in your case as well as watermonkey and his sockpuppets, you think you are the center of your silkwormbox, whereas the silkwormies in reality are your puppetmasters... ;)

O shoot shooti can't seem to shoot the potty dead on...again.. lol... I'm loving the show today all the monkeys here to play..... :D
EnricM
4.4 / 5 (14) May 20, 2015


As a general rule, if Freeman Dyson doesn't understand something, you don't, either.


I bet Freemand Dyson sux at debugging Javascript, and wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an HTTP 301 and and HTTP 302

So, nobody understands that!! Cool!
zz5555
4.5 / 5 (15) May 20, 2015
This so-called scientific issue is clearly drawn on party lines, with people on both sides presenting conflicting facts.

I guess I don't view it that way - there are plenty of climate scientists (and non-climate scientists) who are conservative and support the science. It really boils down to 2 groups: those that support science and those, such as yourself, that oppose it. As far as "conflicting" facts go, I find that the facts coming from your anti-science group tend to fall in 2 categories. First, there are "facts" that aren't true (e.g., "it hasn't warmed in XX years" or "the models are all wrong"). Second, there are facts that don't actually conflict with climate science (e.g., your claim that fewer hurricanes indicates that climate science is wrong, or the claim that cold winters in the eastern US is impossible for a warming earth).
DarkLordKelvin
3.3 / 5 (21) May 20, 2015
Heat from global warming captured by the Pacific Ocean being transferred to Indian Ocean

and that gentle readers, will really suck for those living on the Indian Ocean.

But, our consumption and subsequent release of heat from burning fossil fuels has plateaued and has exactly the right magnitude to be causing the "Pause" everyone is so skeptical of, that combined with fluctuations in the Suns output exactly and linearly correspond to this.

Why does nobody notice?

Because it isn't true. Global fossil fuel usage has increased steadily throughout the pause, but you found a graph in a blog that you thought (wrongly) supported your case, so you just glommed onto it and tuned everything else out. Never mind that graph was from a BLOG (i.e. not a peer-reviewed or even journalistic source), and that it showed only the trend for the USA.

The extra heat is coming from the sun, and we are holding onto more of it for longer largely because of increased GHE.
DarkLordKelvin
3.2 / 5 (22) May 20, 2015
The CO2 in the atmosphere is supposedly holding the excess heat, so the excess heat should already be in the atmosphere.
Wrong. That is not the GHE mechanism; the heat *originates* from absorption of short-wave solar radiation at the Earth's surface, including the ocean. GHE slows the rate of transfer of the radiated heat back into space.
Light penetrates down to around 700meters to 900meters and so would be the primary driver of temperature changes below the top several meters of water.
A good example of getting the facts correct, but missing the point. Most of the heat comes from longer wavelengths, which are absorbed completely in the top few meters.
Thermodynamics dictates that temperatures in a fluid should seek to normalize so that can drive ocean currents, but what it cannot do is magically store excess heat in the ocean while not building heat in the atmosphere.
That is far too general; you cannot ignore timescales for heat exchange.
DarkLordKelvin
3.2 / 5 (22) May 20, 2015
Heat from global warming captured by the Pacific Ocean being transferred to Indian Ocean
and that gentle readers, will really suck for those living on the Indian Ocean.
The Indian Ocean has been the deadliest basin for storms throughout history and the comparison is not even close to other basins, it's off by an order of magnitude, so changing it's temperature is not likely to make a big difference. Every decade or three for the past thousand years there has been a multi-thousand deaths storm in the basin, so let's not go blaming any of it on AGW. The 100k deaths storm is actually relatively common in the basin.
"Deadliest" isn't really a useful scientific metric in this context. You are clearly implying that the Indian Ocean is somehow a more "active" area for storms, but that does not necessarily follow from "deadliest", because it's a geographic region with millions of poor people living in low-lying coastal areas, so even moderate flooding could be "deadly".
Returners
1 / 5 (8) May 20, 2015
Dr. Jeff Masers

unfortunately he has become somewhat of an extremist and bans anyone who disagrees with him or his staff about anything, even when they blatantly lie or use irrelevant examples; like the time rick rood claimed the majority of Americans were in favor of same sex marriage as an irrelevant example of how peoples' opinions change....well they aren't in favor of that, and it is just that irrelevant anyway.

It's a completely unprofessional comment to be in a professional blog.

I called him out on that and got a permanent ban for it, even though they know I beat the professional forecasters half the time on forecasting hurricane tracks and intensity. It didn't matter to them, they wanted me gone just for questioning the flaws in their position on AGW.
Returners
1 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
To clarify I don't beat the NHC as often any more for two reasons. First they've improved so much that there is little room for improvement now, and secondly I don't spend as much time on it any more. Nobody is going to listen to me over Masters or the NHC anyway. The last time I beat them was on Hurricane Isaac, and that was the last one I bothered to forecast on too.

Anyway, Masters was just quoting NASA and NOAA there, but that's part of the problem, he doesn't quote anyone who questions anything about AGW, except as an aside to mock them. It wasn't so long ago Stu Ostro didn't accept AGW either, and deep down he probably still doesn't, but because of pressure from the science community he has to do so publicly or potentially lose his career.

That's how extreme liberalism works. You submit or else. Then again, it's how extreme conservatism works too. It's how any extremism works.
Returners
1 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
When your job is saving people's lives you can't be a crowd-pleaser. You have to call an idiot an idiot, and you have to call a liar a liar, and you have to tell people to run, even err on the side of caution. It's your job to err on the side of caution because people insist on erring on the side of danger, for whatever reason.

Every time a storm hits, "yall didn't tell us it was gonna be that bad.""

Yes, they did, the definition of that category of storm is that it's going to be that bad, and they tell you to prepare for 1 or 2 categories worse than the official forecast just in-case of last-second rapid intensification, which has happened before on several occasions as often as rapid weakening.

AGW doesn't scare me that much, because it's a gradual disaster; you can walk away from sea level rise.
Returners
1.5 / 5 (8) May 20, 2015
Right now, the U.S. isn't changing energy policy fast enough to break even with population growth, nevermind effect net change. Why is that? Because the government doesn't actually believe it's necessary. If they did, they'd change energy policy. They don't believe it themselves.

Making a 10% energy policy change per decade is useless when population grows by 14% per decade.
Returners
1 / 5 (6) May 20, 2015
It's complicated. Most of our population growth is from immigration now, as people have fewer and fewer children. In the past our economy was driven by reproduction and population growth. Now that won't be possible at some point in the future when population reaches reasonable limits of the technology that supports said population.

ten kids had ten kids had four kids had 3 kids and invented robots that replace everyone's job. NOw we, the three kids, are stuck with a stupid civilization that does everything backwards, and the stupid people are still alive and in power, and will be for another 10 to 50 years.
Returners
1.4 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
I guess I'll be stuck voting for a dummycrat again, since there is no good independent, I can't imagine voting for any of the retardigans who support lowering wages and tell everyone to "work harder like I did" (born with a silver spoon in their mouth) and they own a robot factory.

The Retardigans want to retard the progress of anybody in the lower 80% of the population, BUT they want you to believe they are all about the "middle class". That couldn't be further from the truth. In reality, Retardigans want an impoverished lower 80% to use as legalized slave labor, AND if they can't get those legalized slaves right here in the U.S. they export those jobs to other countries where slavery is legal.

Chances are your boss is a retardigan, and he's screwing you and your wife every paycheck, and if they raised his taxes another 10% he'd still be in the 1%.
antigoracle
1.4 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
Hey coloradobob, the 1930s was much warmer than anytime since.
greenonions
4.3 / 5 (12) May 20, 2015
Hey antigoracle

http://www.cru.ue...RUT4.png

No they weren't
thermodynamics
4.6 / 5 (11) May 20, 2015
Hey antigoracle

http://www.cru.ue...RUT4.png

No they weren't


Green, sorry. I hit 1 instead of 5. This was a good reference and it deserved a 5.
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (10) May 20, 2015
No sweat thermo - I don't watch the stars too carefully - I don't know how to see who gives what rating. A one from anti would be a compliment....
denglish
1.4 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
Chances are your boss is a retardigan, and he's screwing you and your wife every paycheck, and if they raised his taxes another 10% he'd still be in the 1%.

That you choose pejoratives to express yourself removes credibility immediately.

It is revealing that you think in terms of "haves and have nots", instead of "worked for it, may work for it, and won't work for it".
HeloMenelo
2.6 / 5 (15) May 20, 2015
Hey antigoracle

http://www.cru.ue...RUT4.png

No they weren't


Thats a good reference and it hit him right in the monkeynuts lol... ooooooohhh..
HeloMenelo
2.4 / 5 (14) May 20, 2015
Chances are your boss is a retardigan, and he's screwing you and your wife every paycheck, and if they raised his taxes another 10% he'd still be in the 1%.

That you choose pejoratives to express yourself removes credibility immediately.

It is revealing that you think in terms of "haves and have nots", instead of "worked for it, may work for it, and won't work for it".


you and your clownpuppets just sitting in front of a keyboard removes all credibility.... pressing the buttons confirms it... ;) A good show getting better.... c'mon bring in all the puppets i want this to turn uber hilarious... and so too does the rest of the world.... :D
denglish
1 / 5 (7) May 20, 2015
Chances are your boss is a retardigan, and he's screwing you and your wife every paycheck, and if they raised his taxes another 10% he'd still be in the 1%.

That you choose pejoratives to express yourself removes credibility immediately.

It is revealing that you think in terms of "haves and have nots", instead of "worked for it, may work for it, and won't work for it".


you and your clownpuppets just sitting in front of a keyboard removes all credibility.... pressing the buttons confirms it... ;) A good show getting better.... c'mon bring in all the puppets i want this to turn uber hilarious... and so too does the rest of the world.... :D

How about you just get ignored instead. There. Done.
Steve 200mph Cruiz
5 / 5 (9) May 20, 2015
Denglish,
It's revealing that you think money is accurate reflection of your contribution to society.
Tesla would have something to say about that.

In fact, I can't name a single rich person before the industrial revolution, but I can name quite a few poor people, and if money is worth so much, and is so defining of you as a person,, how come people worship Jesus?
DarkLordKelvin
2.4 / 5 (14) May 20, 2015
Denglish,
It's revealing that you think money is accurate reflection of your contribution to society.
Tesla would have something to say about that.

In fact, I can't name a single rich person before the industrial revolution, but I can name quite a few poor people, and if money is worth so much, and is so defining of you as a person,, how come people worship Jesus?
That seems like a strange thing to say .. you really couldn't name Julius Caesar, or Genghis Khan, or Cleopatra, or Rameses the Pharaoh, or any monarch or pope, or even a famous merchant like Marco Polo?
Steve 200mph Cruiz
5 / 5 (6) May 20, 2015
I should specify "rich person" as the old extinct American aristocrat class and business/agricultural/mining mogols.
I'm sure some people who live on the east coast or the south could name some plantation owners or locally famous guys, but I digress.

DarkLordKelvin
2.6 / 5 (15) May 20, 2015
I should specify "rich person" as the old extinct American aristocrat class and business/agricultural/mining mogols.
I'm sure some people who live on the east coast or the south could name some plantation owners or locally famous guys, but I digress.

So, Ben Franklin, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, Alexander Hamilton ... none of those ring a bell either? I'm not just trying to yank your chain here ... I am trying to make a point about being careful when you try to make someone else look ridiculous that you are not unintentionally catching that same criticism on the rebound.
denglish
1.6 / 5 (7) May 21, 2015
Denglish,
It's revealing that you think money is accurate reflection of your contribution to society.
Tesla would have something to say about that.

In fact, I can't name a single rich person before the industrial revolution, but I can name quite a few poor people, and if money is worth so much, and is so defining of you as a person,, how come people worship Jesus?

I never said anything of the sort! I think one's contribution to society is based on what they do, not on what they have (or convince others what they don't have, and can never have because of the actions of "evil" people).

I don't know why people worship Jesus. Despite Christianity being a decent way of social order, basing world views on mythology seems like a poor decision.
chapprg1
2 / 5 (4) May 21, 2015
This kind of climate behavior is not new or unprecedented but follows the familiar end of la Nina pattern when accumulated heat in the eastern pacific flows into the Indian ocean about a year later. Reduced trade and more westerly winds may well be the beginning of a much belated el Nino as the warm water flows back to South America and up the coast of Mexico an the US. If so this would be expected to bring much need precipitation to California and the southern deserts.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (13) May 22, 2015
This kind of climate behavior is not new or unprecedented but follows the familiar end of la Nina pattern when accumulated heat in the eastern pacific flows into the Indian ocean about a year later. Reduced trade and more westerly winds may well be the beginning of a much belated el Nino as the warm water flows back to South America and up the coast of Mexico an the US. If so this would be expected to bring much need precipitation to California and the southern deserts.

But it's not due to the "end" of the Nina pattern.
That allows the "hill" of warm water to spill back eastward in a series of kelvin waves to allow a Nino to develop. While the Nina persists the warm "hill" has outlet into the Indian ocean.
You are correct though in that there is nothing GW about the process .... except the heat levels are higher than ever before.
mosahlah
1 / 5 (10) May 23, 2015
The science of global warming is settled, except for the part about why it hasn't happened yet.
runrig
4.7 / 5 (13) May 23, 2015
The science of global warming is settled, except for the part about why it hasn't happened yet.

Never was supposed to have happened "yet". But it's certainly "happening".

Projections of dire consequences lie decades in the future, so don't give me the "forecasts are wrong" crap either.
Returners
1.4 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
Chances are your boss is a retardigan, and he's screwing you and your wife every paycheck, and if they raised his taxes another 10% he'd still be in the 1%.

That you choose pejoratives to express yourself removes credibility immediately.

It is revealing that you think in terms of "haves and have nots", instead of "worked for it, may work for it, and won't work for it".


Many retardigans are 2nd and 3rd, even 4th generation millionaires. Worked for it? I think not.

The only reason I'm unemployed is I haven't been hired. Period.

I'm FAR more qualified than half the blokes in congress, yet I can't even get an interview lately at what should be an easy job. Why? Because the HR managers punish people for being out of work; They only hire people who already have a job, which creates a vicious cycle of perpetual unemployment.

Wage laws don't work because the wealthy class drives up prices again, and they always make 10 to 20% MINIMUM on every transaction.
Returners
1.8 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
The economics in the U.S. is absolutely rigged to hoard most of the wealth, both the annual income and the accumulated wealth, in the hands of a few percent of people. 10% have about 80% of the income and 90% of the accumulated wealth. 83 people in the world hold over half the world's annual income.

The solution is not minimum wage laws, because OWNERS just use that as an excuse to raise prices back to the rip-off level again. The solution is HIGHER TAXES on the top 10%. That is the only way to stop the BANDITRY of Aristocracy that has existed for over 2 centuries in the U.S. It was intended by the original signers of the constitution that NOBODY would have a title of a king or royalty, but the spirit of that clause was lost almost immediately as tyccoons of one sort or another emerged owning entire sectors of the market, and at times entire sectors of the government. The 80/20 rule is unconstitutional, especially in spirit even if not in letter. Go read it.
Returners
1.4 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
Oh but the trend in more recent years has been for the riches people and the richest companies to expatriate to Sweden, who has very little land or industry of it's own, but exists by undercutting other nations' tax policies in a silent act of war. In reality, these businesses still operate in the U.S. where they can take advantage of government services,so it's a win-win situation for them. They pay no taxes and they benefit from the taxes paid literally by the poor people and the middle class. Congress doesn't need a new law to prevent this. The commerce clause already gives congress power over this, but they don't use it. Why? Because many of them are BOUGHT by the same companies they are supposed to be regulating.

Google? Facebook? Part owners expatriate after becoming billionaires over-night using GOVERNMENT FUNDED NETWORKS AND EDUCATION PROGRAMS DURING THEIR FOUNDING OF THE COMPANY AND PAY NO TAXES BACK TO THE SYSTEM. THEY ARE A FINANCIAL PARASITE AND IT'S ILLEGAL.
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (21) May 24, 2015
The only reason I'm unemployed is I haven't been hired. Period.


How they going to hire you if you spend the whole day every day at the physorg writing all your silly stuffs? Maybe you think somebody will give a job writing silly stuffs. But Cher they ain't going to pay you to do that non because there is already plenty of couyons at the physorg writing silly stuffs for free.
Returners
1 / 5 (6) May 24, 2015
The only reason I'm unemployed is I haven't been hired. Period.


How they going to hire you if you spend the whole day every day at the physorg writing all your silly stuffs? Maybe you think somebody will give a job writing silly stuffs. But Cher they ain't going to pay you to do that non because there is already plenty of couyons at the physorg writing silly stuffs for free.


I don't spend all day on here.

Wow. Today I made 4 posts counting this one, but I think I made 4 posts total in the previous 4 days.

Oh, yeah. I have a clerical aptitude 3.6 standard deviations above the median. That basically means any employer who won't hire me is a flipping moron.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
Oh, yeah. I have a clerical aptitude 3.6 standard deviations above the median. That basically means any employer who won't hire me is a flipping moron.


He's the moron and you don't have a job, what's wrong with this picture Skippy?

You tell me I am the moron and the idiot too but I have the good job and had the good job too since I was just a teenager. Maybe you should study up on how to be a moron so you can get a job like I got.

I mean being the moron ain't so bad, because I got a house that is mostly paid for, a good truck that is all paid for, and a nice pretty Mrs-Ira-Skippette, and a job I like a lot that pays me about 100 or 90 thousands of dollars every year. Maybe you should try being the moron like me instead of the guy who is too smart to get a job.
Returners
1 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
Maybe you should try being the moron like me instead of the guy who is too smart to get a job.


What the hell is wrong with you?

You think that's supposed to motivate anyone or make me feel better?

Lol. The other guy claims people don't work hard enough, and I've worked harder in my life than him, that much I know for sure, but here you are telling someone to be a moron, or maybe act like a moron, because they're too smart?

Sorry, I'm done with the "act like a moron" job classification, unless it's literally a job as a comedian.

I have 150 college credits completed, which is more than Nurses, Senators, and Presidents, and I'm going to get more before the story's done.
Uncle Ira
4.8 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
What the hell is wrong with you?


I got a good job for a long time.

You think that's supposed to motivate anyone or make me feel better?


Cher why you think I am trying to make you feel better? I'm trying to get you to quit whining about how sad your life is on the physorg. We can't do anything about it, only you can.

The other guy claims people don't work hard enough, and I've worked harder in my life than him, that much I know for sure, but here you are telling someone to be a moron, or maybe act like a moron, because they're too smart?


You are the one talking about how smart you are all the time and how everybody is the moron. But Skippy, YOU are the one with no job. You don't see the silliness in that?

I have 150 college credits completed,which is more than Nurses,Senators,and Presidents,and I'm going to get more before the story's done.


Well you better get a move on, they are way ahead of you and you are falling farther behind.
Returners
1 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
That's the problem guy.

I CAN'T do anything about it if nobody allows me do anything about it.

I can't force some dipshit to hire me. It might be nice if I could, but I can't. That's just the way the world works.

Now if I was a convicted felon, they government would ensure I had a job of some sort as part of some criminal rehabilitation program, they'd even pay someone to hire me, but because I am an honest and moral citizen the workforce rehabilitation won't do that.
Uncle Ira
4.8 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
That's the problem guy.

I CAN'T do anything about it if nobody allows me do anything about it.

I can't force some dipshit to hire me. It might be nice if I could, but I can't. That's just the way the world works.

Now if I was a convicted felon, they government would ensure I had a job of some sort as part of some criminal rehabilitation program, they'd even pay someone to hire me, but because I am an honest and moral citizen the workforce rehabilitation won't do that.


Well Returnering-Skippy for being such a smart person you sure do say some stupid stuffs.
Returners
1 / 5 (5) May 24, 2015
I have never said that everyone is a moron.

I think it's perfectly fair to call someone a moron when they hire a criminal before they hire an honest person. I also think it's perfectly fair to call leaders morons when they rig the legal system to reward criminals and punish honest people. They'll give a job to an ex-rapist, a thief, or a drunk before they give me a chance. That makes them a moron.

Moron:
noun
1.
Informal. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment:
I wonder why they elected that narrow-minded moron to Congress.

http://dictionary...oron?s=t

The freaking dictionary calls them morons.
denglish
3.3 / 5 (7) May 24, 2015
The only reason I'm unemployed is I haven't been hired. Period.

You weren't hired because you failed the interview. I wonder if you came off as an entitled, victimized cunt.

I'm FAR more qualified than half the blokes in congress,

How so? Where did you go to college? What is your major? What have you done? Will you ssend your resume to me if I give you my email address?

yet I can't even get an interview lately at what should be an easy job. Why? Because the HR managers punish people for being out of work; They only hire people who already have a job, which creates a vicious cycle of perpetual unemployment.

Not true. You need to start looking inward. You're blaming everyone but yourself.

Wage laws don't work because the wealthy class drives up prices again, and they always make 10 to 20% MINIMUM on every transaction.

You are mistaken. Small business owners are far from wealthy.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (7) May 24, 2015
You weren't hired because you failed the interview. I wonder if you came off as an entitled, victimized cunt.
@denglish
Given his meltdowns here on PO alone, this is most likely the cause!

i think you hit the nail on the head!
or the returner on the head? LOL

Oh, yeah. I have a clerical aptitude 3.6 standard deviations above the median. That basically means any employer who won't hire me is a flipping moron
@returners
this means absolutely squat

as denglish points out above, and your historical posts have proven, you feel that you are entitled and you have serious mental issues which will affect ANY company that you work for or with, and any halfway decent HR professional will see those character flaws miles away... plus, given your propensity for sharing info... a 30 second research of popular media would bring back enough info to cause any decent HR pro to run away, not hire you

get some freakin counseling!
and quit whining about it here!
RealityCheck
2.1 / 5 (15) May 24, 2015
Hi Returners. :)

The cycle of poverty-drugs-crime-jail-release-poverty-... reinforces and produces high rates of recidivism unless society finds a way to break that vicious cycle which in many cases is beyond the resources of the recidivist in question to escape from due to the same hopelessness and lack of properly remunerated work and social environment which most of us luckier citizens take for granted (ie, "But for the sake of blind fate and fickle fortune go I", as it were). It is in the best interests of all of us individually and for society at large that at least some of our resources/jobs be applied to breaking that vicious cycle and providing meaningful employment to otherwise hapless criminals who are forced by poverty and lack of self-esteem back to their old criminal milieu as a 'support group' until they get caught and returned to prison. Providing jobs for people who have paid for their crimes is the best way to minimize recidivism. Thus benefitting all.

RealityCheck
1.9 / 5 (14) May 24, 2015
[...cont] @Returners, I sympathize with your personal circumstances which seem to have been exacerbated with serious physical ill health, but be thankful that you are not a criminal produced by and trapped in that vicious recidivism cycle I just alluded to. :) You are more fortunate than you realize, mate. :) I don't know what sort of 'safety net' you have available where you live, but here in Australia it's a pretty good and effective one for minimizing serious poverty and criminality where otherwise it would be much much worse for everyone and not only the unfortunate poor/recidivists. Naturally there is a cadre of unredeemable miscreants (witness some of our politicians who should be in jail right now for the lies, cons and frauds they perpetrate during election campaigns and after!). But in any system there is bad/waste percentage. The aim is minimization of same. Nothing's perfect.

In any case, don't let your personal life color/compromise objectivity/science. Regards, :)
RealityCheck
1.2 / 5 (18) May 24, 2015
Hi folks, as you may have guessed by now, it appears that the Uncle Ira bot-voting village idiot is an early beneficiary of 'jobs to prevent serious recidivists' program. It has prevented more serious criminal damage by this moron; in that it has given him time and opportunity to express his 'inner self' criminality in ways which can be 'monitored and controlled', ie, here at phys where this village idiot's worst crime is mindlessly BOT-voting on a Science discourse site. It could be worse if we didn't keep his criminal tendencies 'fixated and preoccupied' with his anti-science activity here. See? Our phys site is keeping a potential criminal recidivist by giving him a 'job' as Official Site Bot-voting Village Idiot. (See, Returners, the program works!...it keeps him off the streets while ever he continues to bot-vote and 'sate' his mindless criminal tendencies with his 'mostly harmless' idiocies here). Imagine what crazy-mad crimes he would be up to if not for our phys site. :)
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (20) May 24, 2015
@ Really-Skippy. How you are Cher? Well that is the rhetoric type of question. I can see how you are. Still in a bad mood. Still tell the lies. Still pretending you are the wise smart BIG CHIEF of the physorg.

This is not my job, the nice peoples at phyorg do not pay to do what I do. It is a service I do for free for all the scientists and humans who would have to see all your weird postums if I didn't keep the eye on you. My paid job is on the towboats and you already know that. I just volunteer my time here.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. I see you still tell the GREAT BIG LIES too. I have never been in any trouble with the law for my whole life. Everything I got I worked for.
RealityCheck
1.2 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
Well, folks, the poor Village Idiot can dish it out but can't take it. Typical twat. He offers his Village Idiot 'services' for 'free', too! How 'magnanimous' of the twit. He claims to be doing a good thing by hiding my comments from viewers by skewing the voting system by bot-voting me '1', but doesn't explain the posts that he voted '5' for when I make sense...but he stopped doing so when I pointed out his 'village idiot's bot-voting on a SCIENCE site was anathema to all right ethically thinking objective scientists (you know, all those 'scientists' he claims to be doing a 'service' for by voting from his 'hit list' of people who don't give a damn about this village idiot's 'services' which skew the voting system on a science site). When the personal likes/dislikes and bot-voting accordingly by this village idiot is claimed to be providing a 'service' to anyone but this troll's own stupidity, then something must be terribly awry in the mind of poor, recidivist Uncle Ira). Sad.
DarkLordKelvin
2.8 / 5 (16) May 24, 2015
He claims to be doing a good thing by hiding my comments from viewers by skewing the voting system by bot-voting me '1', but doesn't explain the posts that he voted '5' for when I make sense...but he stopped doing so when I pointed out his 'village idiot's bot-voting on a SCIENCE site was anathema to all right ethically thinking objective scientists (you know, all those 'scientists' he claims to be doing a 'service' for by voting from his 'hit list' of people who don't give a damn about this village idiot's 'services' which skew the voting system on a science site).
FWIW, I don't see Ira as a bot-voter ... he gives 1's and 5's, depending on what he thinks about the content of a post. I have even seen him give 5's when he didn't like what a post had to say, if it still presented sound science.

There ARE bot voters (ubavontuba, for example), who will give all posts by a poster a "1", regardless of their content ... since Ira changes based on content, he's not of that ilk.
RealityCheck
1.5 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
Hi DLK. :) Please be more thorough in your research, mate. That ploy by Ira was recent; to seem 'objective'. He couldn't keep it up, however, because he reverted to the threats and bot-voting when I called him out on his subjective voting when he didn't 'like' what I posted....missing the point that I posted with the same objective science based sense in the posts he did 'like'. He eventually spat his village-idiot's troll 'dummy' and said "Back on his list I would go" for his mindless bot-votes. You see, if you have been a longtime regular, you would see that any such 'list-based' mindless bot-voting is NEVER acceptable on a science site, irrespective of who does and for what personal 'likes/dislikes' motives. Should he ever genuinely understand that, and corrects his behavior and votes according to the content not the person, then he may finally have learned somthing important: A Science Site/Discussion is NO place for village idiot pretending to 'serve' by 'bot-voting'. Ok? :)
DarkLordKelvin
2.8 / 5 (16) May 24, 2015
You see, if you have been a longtime regular, you would see that any such 'list-based' mindless bot-voting is NEVER acceptable on a science site, irrespective of who does and for what personal 'likes/dislikes' motives. Should he ever genuinely understand that, and corrects his behavior and votes according to the content not the person, then he may finally have learned somthing important
You may be right about Ira .. I was only giving my opinion, which is admittedly based on only a few months of being here on PO.
A Science Site/Discussion is NO place for village idiot pretending to 'serve' by 'bot-voting'. Ok? :)
I completely agree with that .. I don't even use the rating system much, unless a post teaches me something, provides a spot-on point, makes me laugh, is objectively false, or seems deliberately misleading. I don't even vote on many posts that I would likely find objectionable, since the posters are on my ignore list.
Uncle Ira
4.8 / 5 (17) May 24, 2015
and corrects his behavior and votes according to the content not the person, then he may finally have learned somthing important


@ Really-Skippy. How you are again Cher? Still telling the GREAT BIG LIES is how you are. It was only this week I give a lot five karma votes and even told you how much I liked what you wrote. And you still called me the names even when I was trying to be nice to you.

So podna, that is all you will ever get from me again. The one karma votes I mean. You should be glad that the nice peoples at physorg cut me off at just the one, ornery as you are I would like to give you some minus votes.

So matey do some more better diligence and get used to ol Ira-Skippy voting you for the couyon that you always are.

How you like me now Cher? Good, that's the way I like it.
RealityCheck
1.3 / 5 (16) May 24, 2015
And there you have it, folks, the trolling village idiot frustrated in his 'bot-voting' agenda based on a target list for '1's irrespective. That is how he started out; and for what he was challenged about; and what he still doesn't comprehend is all kinds of WRONG in a science site/discussion. He 'serves' no-one but his own village idiot's trolling EGO and MINDLESSNESS by skewing the voting system on a science site, based on his uncomprehending and malignant mentality. This latest admission of his above, where he again swears to give '1' irrespective of content demonstrates his own mendacity and cowardly ineffectual attempts at bullying and distorting discourse on a science site. Poor Ira puts himself above objective and fair discourse for all no matter WHO they are or whether he 'likes/dislikes' them personally. poor Ira. Sad.
RealityCheck
1.3 / 5 (16) May 24, 2015
One can but try. Ira, pay attention:
It was only this week I give a lot five karma votes and even told you how much I liked what you wrote.
They mean nothing, and only self-serving, so long as you continue to bot-vote me '1' in the Cosmology threads even though you don't comprehend but still pretend to 'serve science' by bot-voting '1's. Not objectively consistent.
So podna, that is all you will ever get from me again. The one karma votes I mean.
See where your pretense is blown? You resort again to mindless troll rage 'bot-voting' irrespective of content, simply because of your own ego/malice. Lose it, and your 'act'.

...get used to ol Ira-Skippy voting you for the couyon that you always are. How you like me now Cher? Good, that's the way I like it.
Neither your personal likes/dislikes nor mine should enter the objective science discourse. I respond on the facts; you don't. Correct that across the board. Earn respect. No other way on a science site. :)
Water_Prophet
1 / 5 (7) May 24, 2015
Reality, my friend, don't you know, "1" is the new "5."

Like it matters. It only matters to tiny little people who long to oppress ideas.
HeloMenelo
2.4 / 5 (14) May 25, 2015
Nope 1 is 1 and 5 is 5, watermonkey is still eating carrots through a racqet cause his teeth are almost as skew as his eyes, it matters to everyone, because it reflects the integrity of the replies, and outward to the world...and so far it's been hilarious seeing watermonkey and his puppet clowns receive 1s on almost every occasion... :D Here, have another 1 to add tou your unbeatable mountain of 1s... ;)
Water_Prophet
1 / 5 (6) May 25, 2015
Speak of the devil.
Hi Helo, thanks, "judge me by my enemies," I always say.

And since you and the people you are obsequious to (do you ever say anthing original?) are definitely representatives of the dearth of human intelligence, and upper crust of ornery:

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
HeloMenelo
2.2 / 5 (13) May 25, 2015
c'mon monkey we're still waiting for your sockpuppets to join us... all answers originally thumbsucked by you and your clownpuppets (with never a drop of evidence to back your claims ;)... we are loving it and so does the world, so keep cranking it up, we love the show... :D
Water_Prophet
1 / 5 (6) May 25, 2015
Err, who are my sockpuppets?

You are several peoples. Mikeys, the skeptigoons, but never anything from you.

And when I provide references you rabbit, when I provide derivations you know F = ma, you don't get it, then you claim I don't do stuff.

:D
HeloMenelo
2.1 / 5 (11) May 26, 2015
atta monkey.... insulting yourself with a smile at the end... those 1s shines sprightly throughout the site :D
Mike_Massen
1.8 / 5 (10) May 28, 2015
Incidentally, key issue regarding positive feedback effect of CO2 raising H2O in the atmosphere is presented extremely well Eg.
https://en.wikipe...ometrics

The FACT is water, vapour, steam etc has been very well studied for >150years and its well proven both experimentally and theoretically via Physics/Maths that water vapour precipitates out VERY quickly within mere hours once its position on Psychrometric chart changes, this graphical predictive technique is used DAILY by Food & Environmental scientists to gauge propensity for water to dew in a very wide range of environments whether outside, indoors, inside fridges, food containers etc

It is the key issue just WHY CO2 is raising Water Vapour levels as the heat load is much higher than ANY other sources, something Water_Prophet just CANNOT grasp & thus lies to gain credence.

Water_Prophet has also claimed to have "4 technical degrees" but, cannot prove it !

Physics, not idle ignorance please !

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