Large Hadron Collider 7 TeV experiment on March 30

Mar 23, 2010
A view of a superconducting solenoid magnet at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) near Geneva. European researchers said they would next week move to the next stage of the experiment that will recreate conditions close to the Big Bang that hatched the universe.

(PhysOrg.com) -- With beams routinely circulating in the Large Hadron Collider at 3.5 TeV, the highest energy yet achieved in a particle accelerator, CERN has set the date for the start of the LHC research programme. The first attempt for collisions at 7 TeV (3.5 TeV per beam) is scheduled for 30 March.

“With two beams at 3.5 TeV, we’re on the verge of launching the LHC physics programme,” explained CERN’s Director for Accelerators and Technology, Steve Myers. “But we’ve still got a lot of work to do before collisions. Just lining the beams up is a challenge in itself: it’s a bit like firing needles across the Atlantic and getting them to collide half way.”

Between now and 30 March, the LHC team will be working with 3.5 TeV beams to commission the beam control systems and the systems that protect the particle detectors from stray particles. All these systems must be fully commissioned before collisions can begin.

“The LHC is not a turnkey machine,” explained Myers. “The machine is working well, but we’re still very much in a commissioning phase and we have to recognize that the first attempt to collide is precisely that. It may take hours or even days to get collisions.”

The last time CERN switched on a major new research machine, the Large Electron Positron collider, LEP, in 1989 it took three days from the first attempt to collide to the first recorded collisions.

The current LHC run began on 20 November 2009, with the first circulating beam at 0.45 TeV. Milestones were quick to follow, with twin circulating beams established by 23 November and a world record beam energy of 1.18 TeV being set on 30 November. By the time the LHC switched off for 2009 on 16 December, another record had been set with collisions recorded at 2.36 TeV and significant quantities of data recorded. Over the 2009 part of the run, each of the LHC’s four major experiments, ALICE, ATLAS, CMS and LHCb recorded over a million particle collisions, which were distributed smoothly for analysis around the world on the LHC computing grid. The first physics papers were soon to follow. After a short technical stop, beams were again circulating on 28 February 2010, and the first acceleration to 3.5 TeV was on 19 March.

Once 7 TeV collisions have been established, the plan is to run continuously for a period of 18-24 months, with a short technical stop at the end of 2010. This will bring enough data across all the potential discovery areas to firmly establish the LHC as the world’s foremost facility for high-energy particle physics.

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User comments : 39

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MorituriMax
2.9 / 5 (8) Mar 23, 2010
Newsflash, flocks of birds carrying bagels seen heading for the LHC. News at '11.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (10) Mar 23, 2010
These people know it might be dangerous, yet they continue anyway!

From Wikipedia: Mad Scientist:
...Mad scientists also, whilst definitely being intelligent, if not necessarily brilliant, usually fail to think things through to their conclusion...

Some excerpts from the LSAG (CERN safety committee) summary report:
Collisions at the LHC differ from cosmic-ray collisions with astronomical bodies like the Earth in that new particles produced in LHC collisions tend to move more slowly than those produced by cosmic rays. Stable black holes could be either electrically charged or neutral.

If stable microscopic black holes had no electric charge, their interactions with the Earth would be very weak. Those produced by cosmic rays would pass harmlessly through the Earth into space, whereas those produced by the LHC could remain on Earth.
... So just what do they think stable, neutral black holes, which remain on Earth, might do next?
Bloodoflamb
5 / 5 (6) Mar 23, 2010
So just what do they think stable, neutral black holes, which remain on Earth, might do next?

Kill all the crazies?
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (10) Mar 23, 2010
So just what do they think stable, neutral black holes, which remain on Earth, might do next?

Kill all the crazies?
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really don't care about life.
eric_in_chicago
4.6 / 5 (9) Mar 23, 2010
being sucked into a black hole is inevitable. at least this way you might get to see it on tee-vee!!!
jaditod
1 / 5 (8) Mar 24, 2010
I am a pathologist engaged in cancer research , we observe and published two articles , about molecular collision in a chaotic system like is cancer and found that at this level is generate geometric complexes based in triangular mirror images and incomplete hexagons , physics is universal and fractal , we believe that independent of the collision type , it generated a great energy, this energy is accumulated and it displaced, in the case of LHC , we believe these collisions will moved, it will produce an imbalance and changes in the polarity of macromolecules and micromolecules and will affect their chiral order. , then will appear here and over there the fragments of that order, broken hexagons represented by triangular mirror images , that they will affect too the biological development t that can be gestated in these geometric broken order
zbarlici
2.7 / 5 (3) Mar 24, 2010
being sucked into a black hole is inevitable. at least this way you might get to see it on tee-vee!!!


I`d rather stare my enemy in the face as i go down, wouldn`t you? :)
SomeoneFromSouth
4.4 / 5 (7) Mar 24, 2010
ubavontuba, You obviously have no idea how the LHC works or what sort of energies were dealing with. The energies that the LHC use are present every day when high energy x-rays hit our atmosphere from outter space. LHC type collisions are happening in space, hitting earth, right now!

It amuses me how religious folk are scared of what science might uncover and they sit on a COMPUTER!

Grow up children and lets see science take a massive step forward.
hadronhero
5 / 5 (5) Mar 24, 2010
... So just what do they think stable, neutral black holes, which remain on Earth, might do next?

first off, Stable: (adj)(1) : not readily altering in chemical makeup or physical state (2) : not spontaneously radioactive

second, the odds of them making a discovery that sparks a black hole is the same as learning to tie your shoes might yield a black hole.

because third, they've been using particle accels for years. they have an idea of what will HAPPEN; the only question is what subatomic particles they will see. when they say they don't know what to expect they're referring to their theoretical "Higgs Boson". They're running tests to find it and they don't know what to expect. They've never "tied their shoes this way" so to speak.
If you think they don't have a calculated outcome, go take a chemistry class sometime. They wouldn't have $5.6 Billion worth of funding without a strong hypothesis.
hadronhero
5 / 5 (4) Mar 24, 2010
either way, if you really think hard about it and try to picture it actually happening you might end up subscribing to my theory which is if the entire world gets sucked into a black hole, we won't notice...so we will keep on living.
Like the quantum theory and schrodinger's cat; if we can't observe it, we can't prove it happened.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (9) Mar 24, 2010
SomeoneFromSouth:
ubavontuba, You obviously have no idea how the LHC works or what sort of energies were dealing with. The energies that the LHC use are present every day when high energy x-rays hit our atmosphere from outter space. LHC type collisions are happening in space, hitting earth, right now!

It amuses me how religious folk are scared of what science might uncover and they sit on a COMPUTER!

Grow up children and lets see science take a massive step forward.
Oh brother. You've obviously no conception of the actual physics involved. Try reading my first post, second from the top. Educate yourself. Or as my Southern kin folk might say, "Git youself and eddication!"
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Mar 24, 2010
first off, Stable: (adj)(1): not readily altering in chemical makeup or physical state (2): not spontaneously radioactive
In this case, they mean #2, it might not evaporate via Hawking radiation.
second, the odds of them making a discovery that sparks a black hole is the same as learning to tie your shoes might yield a black hole.
Actually, they're quite expected.
because third, they've been using particle accels for years. they have an idea of what will HAPPEN; the only question is what subatomic particles they will see. when they say they don't know what to expect they're referring to their theoretical "Higgs Boson". They're running tests to find it and they don't know what to expect. They've never "tied their shoes this way" so to speak.
If you think they don't have a calculated outcome, go take a chemistry class sometime. They wouldn't have $5.6 Billion worth of funding without a strong hypothesis.
You need an education too.
http://cdsweb.cer...d/930479
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (9) Mar 24, 2010
either way, if you really think hard about it and try to picture it actually happening you might end up subscribing to my theory which is if the entire world gets sucked into a black hole, we won't notice...so we will keep on living.
Like the quantum theory and schrodinger's cat; if we can't observe it, we can't prove it happened.
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!
Distort
5 / 5 (11) Mar 24, 2010
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!


And that just serves to show: LHC opponents really DON'T know what they're talking about!
JRAE
5 / 5 (5) Mar 24, 2010
Ubavontuba:

I suggest you read up on basic physics, the energies involved here are so incredibly small compared with the black holes you appear to be comparing this to that nothing will ever happen.

http://environmen...8-en.pdf

I despise when people quote documents out of context, so please read the full report. A bit of advice: Don't copy the text partway through a paragraph explaining why there is no threat.

Simply put:
The theory about "Stable" black holes is not supported by any body of evidence.
Any "stable" block hole would still disintergrate before having any effect.

Please stop spreading hysteria, how does it benefit anybody? Surely you must know that what you're spouting is false, I just can't understand your incentive to spread such bull.
Vlad_Lapadatescu
5 / 5 (4) Mar 24, 2010
I think some people just like to hear themselves talking.
Even the highest energies created at CERN cannot rival the energies created by cosmic rays.
Just to put it into perspective, CERN will reach its full power by running at 14 TeV in 2 years. The highest energy cosmic ray detected had 10^8 TeV (source : http://www.telesc...ews.html - Article Cosmic-ray Theory Unravels). That's almost 10 Million times more energetic...and we're still here. I think you can put you bad mojo to rest.
nanoPhobe
4.5 / 5 (2) Mar 24, 2010
...will appear here and over there the fragments of that order, broken hexagons represented by triangular mirror images, that they will affect too the biological development that can be gestated in these geometric broken order


Thus we'll be experiencing frame tearing without the triple buffering / v-Sync option to rectify such atrocities...
ealex
5 / 5 (3) Mar 24, 2010
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!


No, actually LHC proponents don't care about stupid life.

If science always stood on the safe side with no risks, we'd still be in caves. Grow up.
Bloodoflamb
4 / 5 (1) Mar 24, 2010
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!

How about this: if the LHC creates no stable world destroying black holes, you admit that you're bat-shit insane. If it does, we'll all be dead an it won't matter. Deal?
DarwiN100
3.3 / 5 (3) Mar 24, 2010
I think LHC black holes might suck in Jesus..

Now that would be a shame, wouldnt it? :)
Rynox77
4.7 / 5 (3) Mar 24, 2010
Some people are already walking around with large black holes in their skull and we're all still here.
broglia
not rated yet Mar 24, 2010
Even the highest energies created at CERN cannot rival the energies created by cosmic ray
This argument is irrelevant, as you cannot create black hole by using of arbitrarily high energy in the same way, like fastly moving electron never becomes black hole due the relativistic mass formula.

E=mc2 formula means equivalence, not identity. Therefore the energy of cosmic rays is irrelevant here, as these rays are always formed by single isolated protons, not by dense proton rays with zero momentum toward Earth.

Actually, formation of stable black holes during LHC experiments is expected and predicted by mainstream theories.

http://arxiv.org/.../0606193
http://iopscience...2/12/S52
http://cerncourie...rn/34938
http://news.scien...-01.html
broglia
1 / 5 (2) Mar 24, 2010
.. If it does, we'll all be dead an it won't matter..
There is no complete theory about it. The scenario of giant stranglet explosion is of the same relevance there. Maybe only part of civilization will be destroyed. Or black hole could revolve the Earth and it can fall beneath surface of Earth periodically, thus reminding our stupidity many years.
Ant
1 / 5 (2) Mar 24, 2010
Look everyone
they are going to go ahead no matter what anyone says so we have to just grin and bear it. I for one hope that it is an unqualified success but worry that something may have been overlooked that could cause a disaster. We forever hear this argument about cosmic rays hitting the atmosphere but isnt that the whole point they are stopped by the protective layers. I hope that if something does go wrong the whole device melts into a solid block together with the gong seeking crackpots.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (1) Mar 24, 2010
Ubavontuba:

I suggest you read up on basic physics, the energies involved here are so incredibly small compared with the black holes you appear to be comparing this to that nothing will ever happen.

http://environmen...8-en.pdf
This is nothing but disinformation. The conclusions do not logically follow from the body of their work. Physorg recently had an article on this very fact. Here it is:

http://www.physor...986.html
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (1) Mar 24, 2010
Ubavontuba:

I despise when people quote documents out of context, so please read the full report. A bit of advice: Don't copy the text partway through a paragraph explaining why there is no threat.

How are my quotes out of context? They're quite complete.
Simply put:
The theory about "Stable" black holes is not supported by any body of evidence.
Any "stable" block hole would still disintergrate before having any effect.
Obviously, you fail to understand the term, "stable."

Please stop spreading hysteria, how does it benefit anybody? Surely you must know that what you're spouting is false, I just can't understand your incentive to spread such bull.
What's false about it? The physics I've "spouted" have been verified by the LSAG committee themselves (they just refuse to acknowledge the body of their own work).

Heck, I recently caught Stephen Giddings denying the differences between LHC and cosmic ray collisions again, on this very site!
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (1) Mar 24, 2010
I think some people just like to hear themselves talking.
Even the highest energies created at CERN cannot rival the energies created by cosmic rays.
Just to put it into perspective, CERN will reach its full power by running at 14 TeV in 2 years. The highest energy cosmic ray detected had 10^8 TeV (source : http://www.telesc...ews.html - Article Cosmic-ray Theory Unravels). That's almost 10 Million times more energetic...and we're still here. I think you can put you bad mojo to rest.

You obviously fail to understand the differential physics involved. It's called, "conservation of momentum." Look it up.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (2) Mar 25, 2010
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!


No, actually LHC proponents don't care about stupid life.

If science always stood on the safe side with no risks, we'd still be in caves. Grow up.
Science has never endangered so many people, all at once. Besides, I think many of those who unwillingly died for science, might've wished for a different fate.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (2) Mar 25, 2010
This just serves to show: LHC proponents really DON'T care about life!

How about this: if the LHC creates no stable world destroying black holes, you admit that you're bat-shit insane. If it does, we'll all be dead an it won't matter. Deal?
And again, you're only showing that LHC proponents really don't care about life.
broglia
1 / 5 (2) Mar 26, 2010
LHC proponents have no acceptation criterions. No level of risk would convince them to stop LHC experiment. They just waiting, until something happens - this is all, what all scientific theories is good for them. In certain sense they're most ignorant crackpots of modern era.
vantomic
not rated yet Mar 27, 2010
anyone who thinks the LHC is dangerous is mentally retarded...end of story. When nothing happens I hope you come back and say "i was wrong, i'm an idiot" but you probably won't.
seneca
1 / 5 (1) Mar 27, 2010
It's not broglia, who expects the formation of micro-black holes and strangelets in LHC - this is just a bare fact...

http://arxiv.org/.../0301003
http://arxiv.org/.../0606193
http://cerncourie...rn/34938

After then we can discuss only, whether micro-black holes and strangelets are safe and whether anyone who thinks they're not is mentally retarded.

The asymmetry follows from the fact, if broglia will be true, nobody will left for to say "I was wrong, I'm an idiot" - for sure.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (1) Mar 27, 2010
It's not broglia, who expects the formation of micro-black holes and strangelets in LHC - this is just a bare fact...

http://arxiv.org/.../0301003

After then we can discuss only, whether micro-black holes and strangelets are safe and whether anyone who thinks they're not is mentally retarded.

The asymmetry follows from the fact, if broglia will be true, nobody will left for to say "I was wrong, I'm an idiot" - for sure.
Actually, even if dangerous, it'd probably take some time for the danger to become apparent. Years, at least.

Personally, I doubt the danger would become apparent in my lifetime.
seneca
3 / 5 (2) Mar 28, 2010
I doubt the danger would become apparent in my lifetime.
So far we haven't reliable model of accretion of matter into black hole. This accretion could proceed quite slowly, if only gravity force will be considered. But from recent astronomical observations follows, any matter falling into black hole becomes source of magnetic field, which accelerates the accretion of another matter into black hole in avalanche-like mechanism. In this case even rather tiny black hole could destroy our planet quite fast. The main problem is, we simply have no realistic security analysis developed for LHC experiments.

http://www.univer...-matter/
seneca
2.3 / 5 (3) Mar 28, 2010
Example of Cern censorship: first photos of Cern accident in 2008 were revealed just after three months after accident (i.e. after grant support for the next year was acknowledged - during this time Cern pretended, accident which destroyed one quarter of collider was just a leak of hellium, which could be repaired during two months) ..

http://www.newsci...lhc.html

Every concentration of mandatory fees creates an island of communism in the society, separated from needs and interests of the rest of society like boson condensate inside of black hole.

http://www.nature...82a.html
otto1923
not rated yet Mar 28, 2010
Actually, even if dangerous, it'd probably take some time for the danger to become apparent. Years, at least.

Personally, I doubt the danger would become apparent in my lifetime.
It would give us adequate time to establish a self-sustaining presence elsewhere which is essential to the long-term survival of the species. Maybe this is being done to compel us to colonize?
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (2) Mar 28, 2010
I doubt the danger would become apparent in my lifetime.
So far we haven't reliable model of accretion of matter into black hole. This accretion could proceed quite slowly, if only gravity force will be considered. But from recent astronomical observations follows, any matter falling into black hole becomes source of magnetic field, which accelerates the accretion of another matter into black hole in avalanche-like mechanism. In this case even rather tiny black hole could destroy our planet quite fast. The main problem is, we simply have no realistic security analysis developed for LHC experiments.

http://www.univer...-matter/
It's surely worthy of consideration. After all, the earth's core is largely comprised of iron, and we all know that iron is magnetically attracted...
seneca
not rated yet Mar 29, 2010
Magnetic field of black holes doesn't care about some... ..iron. It's a solid metal by itself and it vaporizes every element to X-rays at distance.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (1) Mar 29, 2010
Magnetic field of black holes doesn't care about some... ..iron. It's a solid metal by itself and it vaporizes every element to X-rays at distance.
In the process, it creates a magnetic field. It's probably not relevant anyway. The energy and pressure in the earths core is more than sufficient to "force feed" a micro black hole (provided they don't evaporate).

Even if they evaporate, there's room to doubt the micro black hole can expel more energy than is being forced into it. It depends on the rate of evaporation versus the energy density initially being fed into the micro black hole.

They expect them to evaporate rapidly at a terrific temperature but, as I said, there's room to doubt.