Did 'Dark Gulping' Generate Black Holes in Early Universe?

Apr 23, 2009 by Anita Heward
The HST WFPC2 image of gravitational lensing in the galaxy cluster Abell 2218, indicating the presence of large amount of dark matter (credit Andrew Fruchter at STScI).

(PhysOrg.com) -- A process called ‘dark gulping’ may solve the mystery of the how supermassive black holes were able to form when the Universe was less than a billion years old.

Dr Curtis Saxton will be presenting the study at the European Week of Astronomy and Space Science at the University of Hertfordshire in Hatfield.

Dr Saxton and Professor Kinwah Wu, both of UCL’s Mullard Space Science Laboratory, developed a model to study the gravitational interactions between the invisible halo of in a cluster of galaxies and the gas embedded in the dark matter halo.  They found that the interactions cause the dark matter to form a compact central mass, which can be gravitationally unstable, depending on the thermal properties of the dark matter.  If the cluster is disturbed, the dark matter central mass would undergo a very rapid collapse, without a trace of electro-magnetic radiation being emitted.  This fast dynamical collapse of the unstable dark-matter is called dark gulping.

The affected dark mass in the compact core is compatible with the scale of supermassive black holes in galaxies today.  There are several theories for how supermassive black holes form: one possibility is that a single large gas cloud collapses, another is that a black hole formed by the collapse of a giant star swallows up enormous amounts of matter; another possibility is that a cluster of small black holes merge together. However, all these options take many millions of years and are at odds with recent observations that suggest that black holes were present when the Universe was less than a billion years old.  Dark gulping may provide a solution to how the slowness of gas accretion was circumvented, enabling the rapid emergence of giant black holes.

“Dark matter appears to gravitationally dominate the dynamics of galaxies and galaxy clusters.  However, there is still a great deal of conjecture about origin, properties and distribution of dark particles.  We can only be certain that dark matter is non-interactive with light, but it interacts with ordinary matter via gravity.  Previous studies have ignored the interaction between gas and the dark matter but, by factoring it into our model, we’ve achieved a much more realistic picture that fits better with observations and may also have gained some insight into the presence of early supermassive ,” said Dr Saxton.

According to the model, the development of a compact mass at the core is inevitable. Cooling by the gas causes it to flow gently in towards the centre. The gas can be up to 10 million degrees at the outskirts of the halos, which are few million light years in diameter, with a cooler zone towards the core, which surrounds a warmer interior a few thousand light years across. The gas doesn't cool indefinitely, but reaches a minimum temperature, which fits well with X-ray observations of galaxy clusters. 

The model also investigates how many dimensions the dark particles move in, as these determine the rate at which the dark halo expands and absorbs and emits heat, and ultimately affect the distribution of dark mass the system. 

“In the context of our model, the observed core sizes of galaxy cluster halos and the observed range of giant black hole masses imply that dark matter particles have between seven and ten degrees of freedom,” said Dr Saxton.  “With more than six, the inner region of the dark matter approaches the threshold of gravitational instability, opening up the possibility of dark gulping taking place.”

The findings have been published in the Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society.

More information: “Radial structure, inflow and central mass of stationary radiative galaxy clusters”, Curtis Saxton & Kinwah Wu, Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Volume 391 Issue 3, Pages 1403 - 1436.

Provided by Royal Astronomical Society (news : web)

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2.2 / 5 (6) Apr 23, 2009
Dr Saxton and Professor Kinwah Wu, both of UCL%u2019s Mullard Space Science Laboratory, developed a model to study the gravitational interactions between the invisible halo of dark matter in a cluster of galaxies and the gas embedded in the dark matter halo. They found that the interactions cause the dark matter to form a compact central mass, which can be gravitationally unstable, depending on the thermal properties of the dark matter. If the cluster is disturbed, the dark matter central mass would undergo a very rapid collapse, without a trace of electro-magnetic radiation being emitted. This fast dynamical collapse of the unstable dark-matter is called dark gulping.

So, if I understand it correct we have a take something into account, don't know what it is or what it does, it cannot be seen, we are almost sure it has thermal properties and it doesn't interact with light.
But we do know that we can put it into a model and it works how we expected it to behave...
Am I the only one who finds this a bit odd. There are so many variables present here that it seems very hard to make a good estimate to predict future findings

However, if we know that dark-matter only interacts with normal matter through gravity, then I'm wondering why no one has done this before (they probably have, I'm just a aliterate person)

Im wondering what will be true. Dark matter, the electric universe or (and this is pushing the limit) the combination of both!
1.2 / 5 (5) Apr 23, 2009
Matter and %u2018dark matter.%u2018
Fact and Speculation.
The detected material mass of the matter in the Universe is so small
(the average density of all substance in the Universe is approximately
p=10^-30 g/sm^3) that it cannot %u201C close %u201C the Universe and therefore
our Universe as whole is %u201C open%u201D, endless.
But what to do with the infinite Universe the physicists don't know.
The concept of infinite/ eternal means nothing
to a scientists. They do not understand how they could
draw any real, concrete conclusions from this characteristic.
A notions of "more", "less", "equally, "similar" could not
be conformed to a word infinity or eternity.
The Infinity/Eternity is something, that has no borders,
has no discontinuity; it could not be compared to anything.
Considering so, scientists came to conclusion that the
infinity/eternity defies to a physical and mathematical definition
and cannot be considered in real processes.
Therefore they have proclaimed the strict requirement
(on a level of censor of the law):
« If we want that the theory would be correct,
the infinity/eternity should be eliminated ».
Thus they direct all their mathematical abilities,
all intellectual energy to the elimination of infinity.
Therefore they invented an abstract "dark matter" and " dark energy".
They say: " 90% or more of the matter in the Universe is unseen.
And nobody knows what it is.
Unknown %u201Cdark matter %u201C it is matter which makes up the difference
between observed mass of a galaxies and calculated mass%u2026%u2026
which%u2026.will %u2026%u201D close %u201C %u2026.the Universe, as %u2026%u2026.
as%u2026%u2026the astrophysicists want.
The Dark Matter is another official dogma of our astronomy.
/ V. H. Vergon. /
"Dark energy, this mysterious stuff in the vacuum of space
which makes the universe want to accelerate, is the basis
for standard cosmology today because it explains much
of what we see,"
/ Research by Dr David Wiltshire, from
New Zealand's University of Canterbury /.
Dark Energy may be Vacuum
============= . .
My opinion.

The Dark Energy is the Vacuum.
Vacuum is not a dead space as the Classic Physics says.
Vacuum is some kind of Energetic Space as the
Quantum Theory says.
The Energetic Vacuum itself is %u2018 The Dark Energy %u2018.
The physicists only invent new word %u2018Dark Energy %u2018 instead of
to say %u2018 ENERGETIC VACUUM %u2019.
========== . .
Everything began from Infinite Energetic Vacuum: T=0K.
Somehow, the energy is extracted from the Vacuum
(the Energetic Dirac Soup) and turned into particles.
The Materialistic World gets its finite being
from an Infinite Energetic Being %u2013 Vacuum: T=0K.

To understand this %u2018speculation%u2019 we must know:
1. What is Vacuum: T=0K ?
2. Which virtual particles can exist in Vacuum?
3. How can virtual particles turn into real particles?
======== .
Until now the physicists ignore the Vacuum Energy T=0K
because it is the Zero Point Energy for our measuring devices.
Because the Absolute Zero Point Energy is border for our
measuring devices.
Can this fact be enough reason to stop our investigation?
When the next revolution rocks physics,
chances are it will be about nothing%u2014the vacuum, that endless
infinite void.
================ . .
Please, have patience and wait %u201Cwhen the next revolution rocks physics.%u201D
===============. .
Best wishes.
Israel Sadovnik. / Socratus.
2.6 / 5 (7) Apr 23, 2009
The only black hole I can verify is the one that is currently swallowing the credibility of the theorist who come up with this stuff\

5 / 5 (2) Apr 23, 2009
I wish some posts were legible, in that they don't contain 15 %u2014 repeats for every sentence. ugh.
4.5 / 5 (2) Apr 23, 2009
So is dark gulping like when you swallow too much water and it leaves a lump in your chest?

Those posts look like the back of the Dr bronners soap bottle.
4.8 / 5 (4) Apr 23, 2009
A preprint version of the paper being discussed can be found here: http://arxiv.org/...95v1.pdf . Also note that NOWHERE in the paper is the term 'dark gulping' mentioned, although 'dark growth' and 'dark physics' are mentioned. Since this was a paper presented formally at an astronomical convention, maybe the researchers wanted of make their paper more attractive to the attendees or the RAS PR machine came up with this term to garner more attention.
2 / 5 (3) Apr 23, 2009
All from the land of Darkalonia.

A whole plethora of invisible science.
2.8 / 5 (4) Apr 24, 2009
When no dark matter can exist without presence of observable matter, I don't see any reason, why to consider such hypothesis - the ordinary matter would always collapse first, being surrounded by dark matter. After all, was dark matter of density higher then few grams per cubic kilometer ever observed? Contemporary physics knows no mechanism, why and how such incredibly sparse "matter" should collapse.
1.3 / 5 (4) Apr 24, 2009
Sorry, folks. There are no Black Holes.

1. Rest masses of the 3,000 different types of nuclei [See: Nuclear Wallet Cards (National Nuclear Data Center, Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY) that comprise the entire visible universe show conclusively that the n-n interaction is strongly repulsive [See: "Attraction and repulsion of nucleons: Sources of stellar energy", J. Fusion Energy 19 (2001) 93-98; or "Nuclear systematics: III. The source of solar luminosity", Journal of Radioanalytical & Nuclear Chemistry 252 (2002) 3-7 or "Neutron repulsion confirmed as energy source", Journal of Fusion Energy 20 (2003) 197-201 or "Nuclear systematics: III. The source of solar luminosity"].

2. Astronomical observations show that our universe is fragmenting. Interstellar space is being filled with Hydrogen, a neutron decay product (Like the 50,000 billion metric tons of Hydrogen that depart from our Sun each year in the Solar Wind).

There was no Big Bang that filled our universe with Hydrogen!

The Sun, other stars, and the cosmos are powered by repulsive interactions between neutrons in dense nuclear objects at the cores of stars and galaxies that result in:

(a) neutron emission, and/or
(b) fission

I.e., (a) Neutron star --> n --> H+ + e- --> H
OR (b) Neutron star --(fissions)--> Cosmic explosion

Our conclusions were explained in a 14-page paper, "The nuclear cycle that powers the stars: Fusion, gravitational collapse and dissociation," submitted to the Hirschegg Workshop 06: Astrophysics and Nuclear Structure, Hirschegg, Austria, 15-21 Jan 2006


The experimental basis is explained in more detail in a 20-page manuscript: "Isotopes tell origin and operation of the Sun," AIP Conference Proceedings, volume 822 (2006) pp. 206-225


With kind regards
Oliver K. Manuel
5 / 5 (1) Apr 29, 2009
@ Oliver K. Manuel, I noticed in your resume that you had the honor of co-chairing a symposium with Nobel-winning physicist Glenn Seaborg in 1999. Was Dr. Seaborg familiar with your theories and if so, what was his opinion of them? Just curious.