What if extraterrestrial observers called, but nobody heard?

March 1, 2016

As scientists step up their search for other life in the universe, two astrophysicists are proposing a way to make sure we don't miss the signal if extraterrestrial observers try to contact us first.

René Heller and Ralph Pudritz say the best chance for us finding a signal from beyond is to presume that extraterrestrial observers are using the same methods to search for us that we are using to search for life beyond Earth.

Here on Earth, space researchers are focusing most of their search efforts on planets and moons that are too far away to see directly. Instead, they study them by tracking their shadows as they pass in front of their own host stars.

Measuring the dimming of starlight as a planet crosses the face of its star during orbit, scientists can collect a wealth of information, even without ever seeing those worlds directly.

Using methods that allow them to estimate the average stellar illumination and temperatures on their surfaces, scientists have already identified dozens of locations where life could potentially exist.

In a paper to published in the journal Astrobiology, and available now online, Heller and Pudritz turn the telescope around to ask, what if extraterrestrial observers discover the Earth as it transits the sun?

If such observers are using the same search methods that scientists are using on Earth, the researchers propose that humanity should turn its collective ear to Earth's "transit zone", the thin slice of space from which our planet's passage in front of the sun can be detected.

"It's impossible to predict whether extraterrestrials use the same observational techniques as we do," says Heller. "But they will have to deal with the same physical principles as we do, and Earth's solar transits are an obvious method to detect us."

The transit zone is rich in host stars for planetary systems, offering approximately 100,000 potential targets, each potentially orbited by and moons, the scientists say - and that's just the number we can see with today's radio telescope technologies.

"If any of these planets host intelligent observers, they could have identified Earth as a habitable, even as a living world long ago and we could be receiving their broadcasts today," write Heller and Pudritz.

Heller is a post-doctoral fellow who, while at McMaster, worked with Pudritz, a professor of Physics and Astronomy. Heller is now at the Institute for Astrophysics in Göttingen, Germany.

The question of contact with others beyond Earth is hardly hypothetical, as several projects are under way, both to send signals from Earth and to search for signals that have been sent directly or have "leaked" around obstacles, possibly travelling for thousands of years.

Heller and Pudritz propose that the Breakthrough Listen Initiative, part of the most comprehensive search for ever conducted, can maximize its chances of success by concentrating its search on Earth's transit zone.

Explore further: Distant moons may provide evidence of life beyond Earth, researchers say

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someone11235813
1.9 / 5 (10) Mar 01, 2016
Just like on Earth where you have a cacophony of EM waves whizzing past you such that if you were sensitive to all of them you'd be overwhelmed with information so there may be hundreds of super intelligent entities who are not using EM but instead are using dark matter particles to communicate amongst themselves. Meanwhile we haven't even worked out how to detect these particles. So there may very well be an absolute avalanche of information pouring all over us that we are oblivious to.

Or maybe Earth is the only place in the universe that has any life on it at all, whether bacteria or intelligent. My guess is the latter, but it would only take a discovery of some form of primitive life in our Solar system to convince me otherwise. Failing that scientists would need to figure out and prove the concept of how molecules can self assemble into something complex enough to be called life. I don't think either of these are imminent. So until then I am an alien skeptic.
gculpex
1 / 5 (3) Mar 01, 2016
Or maybe Earth is the only place in the universe that has any life on it at all, whether bacteria or intelligent. My guess is the latter, but it would only take a discovery of some form of primitive life in our Solar system to convince me otherwise. Failing that scientists would need to figure out and prove the concept of how molecules can self assemble into something complex enough to be called life. I don't think either of these are imminent. So until then I am an alien skeptic.


Voted before I finished reading your rant...
Too many unknown variables to say left or right but I'll just stay on the right for now.... We are really alone (WARA).
JessicaH
3.1 / 5 (8) Mar 01, 2016
If a planet is 100 light years away, wouldn't you have to figure out where it was 100 years ago to point your listening devices at it?
Mark Thomas
3.5 / 5 (11) Mar 01, 2016
"researchers propose that humanity should turn its collective ear to Earth's 'transit zone'"

Interesting idea. It is often useful to imagine the shoe being on the other foot, so in this case it is the aliens trying to find us. It would have been helpful to the reader to see a graphic of the Earth's 'transit zone' added to a map of the Milky Way. Considering our solar system is tilted about 63 degrees with respect to the galaxy, the percentage of stars in the transit zone is probably pretty small, but the direction the tilt is in could make a difference too.
Mark Thomas
3.7 / 5 (12) Mar 01, 2016
"If a planet is 100 light years away, wouldn't you have to figure out where it was 100 years ago to point your listening devices at it?

Not really, it is where the light would appear to be coming from in their perspective because visible light and radio waves move at the same speed. However, you would have to account for this if you travelled between the star systems.
guptm
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 01, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?
Mimath224
3.2 / 5 (5) Mar 01, 2016
Just an opinion, but I think we should spend less time searching for intelligent life and just concentrate on continuing to develop our own astro-tech. If they're there we'll find out one way or another. Micro life is another matter. Any other planet with micro organisms might suggest a planet that could be used for cultivation. Vegetation would then be step closer to colonization.
dnrussellms
1.5 / 5 (8) Mar 01, 2016
See my article published at: http://cosmology....es1.html A mathematical argument is given that gravitational waves instantly redefine curvature of all 4 dimensions of spacetime everywhere in the Universe at once. Therefore, it may be possible to communicate instantly by modulating gravitational waves, without transmission delay!
Extra-terrestrials may be communicating this way. Maybe, this is why SETI has failed to record EM communications from other worlds. --Daniel Russell, Physics Consultant
philstacy9
4.4 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2016
What if extraterrestrial observers were on earth making sure humans do not migrate into extraterrestrial homelands and lower property values?
mnielboc
2 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2016
What a strange idea! This assumes that extraterrestrials only want to communicate with us. But from our own research, we know that there are thousands of transiting planets nearby. My conclusion is that this idea is actually quite stupid, because we would miss the signals of extraterrestrials that either send signals in all directions or try to reach out to other civilisations.
bschott
2.5 / 5 (11) Mar 02, 2016
A mathematical argument is given that gravitational waves instantly redefine curvature of all 4 dimensions of spacetime everywhere in the Universe at once.

Therefore, it may be possible to communicate instantly by modulating gravitational waves, without transmission delay!


Awesome. Do you have your gravitational wave modulator prototype under construction? How does one attach information to a gravitational wave? How does one receive information transmitted via gravitational wave? What language does the universe use to communicate?

What if extraterrestrial observers were on earth making sure humans do not migrate into extraterrestrial homelands and lower property values?


If they monitor our scientific progress and the theories which only have mathematical support that hold current favor, they aren't worried about us going anywhere but extinct. Maybe Dan can call up their homeworlds with his new device and ask them how they got here.....
Mark Thomas
3.5 / 5 (11) Mar 03, 2016
"Therefore, it may be possible to communicate instantly by modulating gravitational waves, without transmission delay!"

No, the gravity waves passing through LIGO detectors in Washington State and Louisiana were 7 milliseconds apart indicating they traveled at the speed of light in a vacuum and came from an angle to the detectors.
dnrussellms
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 03, 2016
No, there is no proof that the wave that was detected by those LIGO detectors was in fact a gravity wave. The fact that it was clocked at the speed of light is a clue that it was some kind of electromagnetic wave that interacted in some unforeseen way with those sensitive detectors.
I suggest in my article, "Gravity Waves Re-Define Spacetime" at: http://cosmology....es1.html that it may have been an X-ray burst that was redshifted enough to interact with LIGO detector arrays.
shoebox22
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 03, 2016
as people once thought for a fact the world was flat, we were wrong, as people think for a fact the speed of light is the ultimate speed in the universe, lets hope we are wrong and the tachyon can close the distance to the stars.
kochevnik
3.3 / 5 (4) Mar 04, 2016
Advanced civilizations would probably have explored singularities, and found that space exploration is less compelling than exploring three dimensions of time
retrosurf
5 / 5 (10) Mar 04, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


I assume what you are asking why should we spend money listening for aliens when there is such need here on earth.

Food aid to sub-Saharan Africa runs 2 to 4 million *tons* a year.
The United States provides around 3 million tons of food aid a year, total for all recipients.
US Foreign Aid, non-military, runs about 40 billion dollars a year.

In contrast, the SETI budget is good for between 3 and 13 *million* dollars a year. Not even a hundredth of one percent of the foreign aid budget, and certainly a miniscule fraction of the cost of food aid to sub-Saharan Africa.
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (11) Mar 04, 2016
It would have been helpful to the reader to see a graphic of the Earth's 'transit zone' added to a map of the Milky Way.

Just do an image google for "ecliptic"

Just an opinion, but I think we should spend less time searching for intelligent life and just concentrate on continuing to develop our own astro-tech.

I think the tech trees are disparate enough to warrant doing both.

No, there is no proof that the wave that was detected by those LIGO detectors was in fact a gravity wave.

People who actually work on the stuff and understand the physics think so. So it's an informed opinion against an uninformed one. Guess who's opinion counts?

is a clue that it was some kind of electromagnetic wave

You obviously haven't looked at the LIGO paper. How can you make such assertions when you don't even know what you're talking about?
dnrussellms
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 04, 2016

To antialias_physorg:
"You obviously haven't looked at the LIGO paper. How can you make such assertions when you don't even know what you're talking about?"

You obviously have not read MY article. I am a physicist. We all must question the LIGO paper.
This is a time to question, not to blindly believe LIGO people, who are under great pressure to show some results for the hundreds of millions of tax dollars that they have spent.

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
dnrussellms
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 04, 2016

To antialias_physorg:
"You obviously haven't looked at the LIGO paper. How can you make such assertions when you don't even know what you're talking about?"

You obviously have not read MY article. I am a physicist. We all must question the LIGO paper.
This is a time to question, not to blindly believe LIGO people, who are under great pressure to show some results for the hundreds of millions of tax dollars that they have spent.

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (10) Mar 04, 2016
You obviously have not read MY article. I am a physicist. We all must question the LIGO paper.

You didn't look at the shape of the signal. No. this is no EM wave.
dnrussellms
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 04, 2016
Yes, I look at signal shape. Signal shape was made indirectly by an interaction of some wave with the LIGO detector (movement of mirrors). That is why it looks that way.
Mark Thomas
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 04, 2016
Regarding a graphic of the Earth's 'transit zone' added to a map of the Milky Way.

"Just do an image google for 'ecliptic' "

I think it is a little more complicated than that. The ecliptic is the projection of Earth's orbit onto the celestial sphere. The transit zone would take into account both the tilt and direction of tilt of Earth's orbit with respect to the galaxy. So if the direction of Earth's 63 degree tilt were straight ahead/behind, assuming a circular orbit around the galaxy, the transit zone would pass directly though the center of the galaxy and a lot more alien worlds could see Earth transiting than if the tilt were towards/away from the galactic center. The article above stated, "The transit zone is rich in host stars for planetary systems, offering approximately 100,000 potential targets." That is pretty small slice of 400 billion stars, so I am guessing our transit zone does not pass through the galactic center.
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (10) Mar 04, 2016
Yes, I look at signal shape. Signal shape was made indirectly by an interaction of some wave with the LIGO detector (movement of mirrors).

Erm...No. You didn't look at the signal (and how it matches prediction)

Read the paper. It would have saved you your entire 'work'.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (7) Mar 04, 2016
Advanced civilizations would probably have explored singularities, and found that space exploration is less compelling than exploring three dimensions of time

Which is what our great, great grandchildren have done...;-)
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (7) Mar 04, 2016
The ecliptic is the projection of Earth's orbit onto the celestial sphere. The transit zone would take into account both the tilt and direction of tilt of Earth's orbit with respect to the galaxy. So if the direction of Earth's 63 degree tilt were straight ahead/behind, assuming a circular orbit around the galaxy, the transit zone would pass directly though the center of the galaxy and a lot more alien worlds could see Earth transiting than if the tilt were towards/away from the galactic center. The article above stated, "The transit zone is rich in host stars for planetary systems, offering approximately 100,000 potential targets." That is pretty small slice of 400 billion stars, so I am guessing our transit zone does not pass through the galactic center.

As is shown in many images, we are 90 degrees to the galactic center and 63-69 to our direction of travel. I've often wondered about the accuracy of the 90 aspect. Altho I suspect we are slightly facing outward...
Mike_Massen
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 05, 2016
dnrussellms says
it was some kind of electromagnetic (EM) wave that interacted in some unforeseen way
Very unlikely, EM intensely studied !

Definitive Evidence shows substantively light is NOT affected by electromagnetism !

Evidence long confirmed historically & often repeated by Physics students at uni/tech colleges globally & so far never refuted !

dnrussellms understand maxwell's equations please which, in relation to experimental Evidence confirm the Physics/Math basis for Fact light is NOT affected by electromagnetic 'bursts' by virtue of the electric field -> perpendicular to magnetic field indicates (over the wavelength) they SUM so not only do not radiate perpendicularly during the wavelength E/M transition & this means, due to the reciprocal imperative, aren't similarly influenced

Look dnrussellms, fundamental Physics/Maths AND evidence refute your claim

Perhaps you can craft an alternate Experimental Method & rationalize it with Physics ?
Mark Thomas
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 05, 2016
"Altho I suspect we are slightly facing outward..."

I agree that perfect alignment with the galactic center doesn't make much sense. As you can see in the original article, there are a host of factors the scientists involved considered and I still don't see the graphic I thought would be helpful:

http://www.lieber...1358.pdf
dnrussellms
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 05, 2016
To Mike_Massen:
New Physics must emerge out of this LIGO study of gravitational waves.
Fundamental Physics does not apply in the case of gravitational waves, because they bend space in all four dimensions, especially if these particular waves were generated by a collapsing binary black hole system, which would impart 2 types of relativistic red-shift.
By the way light is electromagnetic wave. --Physicist
dnrussellms
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 05, 2016
To antialias_physorg:
The observed signal matches the LIGO gravity wave prediction, because the speed of the gravitational wave was assumed in the mathematical model to be equal to the speed of light.
So, the computer predicted a model of an electromagnetic burst, which is what was observed.
If the speed has been put into the model as equal to infinity, then it would not have matched!
Garbage in; Garbage out!
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (10) Mar 05, 2016
The observed signal matches the LIGO gravity wave prediction, because the speed of the gravitational wave was assumed in the mathematical model to be equal to the speed of light.

No, idiot. (and that is putting it very kindly). The SHAPE of the signal has nothing to do with the speed of light.
The fact that the signal was received at both locations within a window that indicates speed of light is one thing. The SHAPE (the chirp and the ringdown) of the signal was seen at both locations. The SHAPE is not in accord with an EM signal.

Again: Read the paper. It would have taken you much less time to read it than it did making all these totally dumb statements on here. It's not a hard read. You could have saved yourself time and embarassment that way.
Mark Thomas
3.5 / 5 (8) Mar 05, 2016
"The observed signal matches the LIGO gravity wave prediction, because the speed of the gravitational wave was assumed in the mathematical model to be equal to the speed of light."

Think of it this way, the distance between the LIGO detector in Washington State and the LIGO detector in Louisiana is about 3,002 kilometers (1,865 miles), ignoring the curvature of the Earth. Worst case the signal would take ~10 milliseconds to travel between the two sites at the speed of light in a vacuum c, and in this case it took 7 milliseconds because the source was at an angle. Gravity waves must be travelling very close to c. All the LIGO scientists got it right, which is hardly a surprise.
Mark Thomas
3.7 / 5 (9) Mar 05, 2016
Regarding the discovery of gravity waves, "Then came writing the paper. This involved getting 1,000 researchers to agree on every detail, and took some 5,000 e-mails, says LIGO's chief detector scientist Peter Fritschel at MIT."

http://www.nature...-1.19382
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (9) Mar 05, 2016
If the speed has been put into the model as equal to infinity, then it would not have matched!
Garbage in; Garbage out!

To dnrussellms;
That should been your first clue...
c geier - artist (admittedlly, not a great one)
Captain Stumpy
3.4 / 5 (9) Mar 05, 2016
c geier - artist (admittedlly, not a great one)
@WHYDE
i suggest you back off... this guy happens to be really cool... AND i like his art!

it is unique and fits right in with my character (and now i will never be without a fork again... which is important because i like food)

just consider yourself warned

:-P
MRBlizzard
3.5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2016
What if extraterrestrial visitors called, but nobody heard?
My friends told me about five years ago that they read in the news paper that some people in Texas had picked up old TV shows on their old style, low def TVs. They even figured out when they were transmitted by the commercials in the shows.

I think that, with our new high definition transmission format, this satisfies the "visitors called, but nobody heard."
Mark Thomas
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 05, 2016
MRBlizzard, "about five years ago" they were still switching off the old analog transmitters, the last analog translators were switched off on 7 June 2011. After that, because the EM spectrum is a precious commodity, those frequencies are being reused.

Remember in the movie Contact the aliens rebroadcasted the first transmission back that they received from us, which unfortunately was Hitler at the Olympic Games in Berlin. Sounds like this might be part of your urban legend. But hey, if I am wrong, you can use instructions embedded in the interlaced frames to build a wormhole portal.
Aliensarethere
1.5 / 5 (2) Mar 06, 2016
Why not assume the aliens is at least a bit more advanced than us. Then they have telescopes that can image planets directly, so no zone needed. Assuming the aliens is at the exact same level as us is very restricting.
victoryengineer
3.4 / 5 (5) Mar 06, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


We have heard for many decades and have provided food, medical and training for many decades to no avail. Perhaps it's time to let the natural course of evolution take place. They are clearly not the fittest.

Many, many genes are being passed on due to outside help that otherwise would have ended through natural selection.
Whydening Gyre
4.6 / 5 (8) Mar 06, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


We have heard for many decades and have provided food, medical and training for many decades to no avail. Perhaps it's time to let the natural course of evolution take place. They are clearly not the fittest.

Many, many genes are being passed on due to outside help that otherwise would have ended through natural selection.

Cold. Cold. Cold. (Little Feat)
But true.
victoryengineer
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 06, 2016
I know it seems cold, certainly from a humanitarian standpoint, but from a genetic/evolutionary standpoint I think there is truth to it.
Mike_Massen
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 07, 2016
Understand its been said on other forums & maybe other threads here, one wonders if any idle transmissions by lower level aliens (LLA) communications were 'deflected' by the higher level aliens (HLA) to protect LLA from broadcasting their presence to us ie before they could be contacted by HLA to join the overall disparate community & be protected from idiocy

Thought arose few days ago when I saw this interesting video because, if one considers issues such as attention span over a generational period in conjunction with intelligent & presuming HLA are conscientious then they may well view what appears as a protracted length ugly nuclear war continually going on here - well, that a radio/TV broadcasts of so much inane soaps, US presidential rhetoric, religious infighting eg sunni/shia, sects with judaism, catholics & others...

Anyway, here's video, bit slow start but, immensely profound, needs update & see comments

https://www.youtu...F7vPanrY
Colbourne
2 / 5 (4) Mar 07, 2016
The probability is that all intelligent life in the universe started on one planet and then has / will spread elsewhere.
Assuming there are infinite "universes" (each with different rules) the probability is that in our universe we are the only planet with advanced intelligence. ie we live in the simplest universe that has conscious lifeforms able to look for life elsewhere.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (7) Mar 07, 2016
The probability is that all intelligent life in the universe started on one planet and then has / will spread elsewhere.

I'm not sure that can be argued.

Let's posit that intelligent life arises on some planet
1) That life is the result of evolution to that planet's particular environment. As such it isn't autmatically viable on another planet (read: it is astoundingly unlikely that it would be viable elsewhere without radical redesign)
2) If intelligent life makes the laap into space - why would it even bother going down on another planet? What would be the point (beyond scientific curiosity)? Homsteading? Hardly. Reasource extraction? Much easier from asteroids.

Assuming there are infinite "universes" (each with different rules) the probability is that in our universe we are the only planet with advanced intelligence.

How exactly does the 'probability' follow from the premise?
Captain Stumpy
3.9 / 5 (11) Mar 07, 2016
The probability is that all intelligent life in the universe started on one planet and then has / will spread elsewhere
@Colbourne
to piggyback on AA_P above
3- if life originated from a singular source, and spread, then why do we have genetic markers matching life on earth from way back
and why do we resemble fish/amphibians etc during gestation

4- if said life made the terrestrial/space leap, then where is the technology today? did they flush it once they landed? or got stranded and absolutely noone could replicate it (almost a Hitchhikers guide Ark B moment?)

re-adaptation to a gravity well once exposed to space for long periods (or evolved in space) requires intense technology, therefore, we can logically conclude this didn't happen here as there is no evidence of tech in history (or even now)

not going to address the rest as AA_P already made the salient point
the universe is quite large... see "Area" here: http://hitchhiker...Universe
obama_socks
2.3 / 5 (3) Mar 07, 2016
Awesome. Do you have your gravitational wave modulator prototype under construction? How does one attach information to a gravitational wave? How does one receive information transmitted via gravitational wave? What language does the universe use to communicate?


What if extraterrestrial observers were on earth making sure humans do not migrate into extraterrestrial homelands and lower property values?


If they monitor our scientific progress and the theories which only have mathematical support that hold current favor, they aren't worried about us going anywhere but extinct. Maybe Dan can call up their homeworlds with his new device and ask them how they got here.....
- BSchott

Presumably, a Gravitational Wave could be used for communications. But its source would have to be the Earth or another body with a magnetic field strong enough to produce such a Wave.
How do you know that it can't be done? Same principle as radio waves, perhaps.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
Or maybe Earth is the only place in the universe that has any life on it at all, whether bacteria or intelligent. My guess is the latter, but it would only take a discovery of some form of primitive life in our Solar system to convince me otherwise. Failing that scientists would need to figure out and prove the concept of how molecules can self assemble into something complex enough to be called life. I don't think either of these are imminent. So until then I am an alien skeptic.


Voted before I finished reading your rant...
Too many unknown variables to say left or right but I'll just stay on the right for now.... We are really alone (WARA).
- gculpex
What is your proof for such an assertion that we are really alone? Scientists are presently trying to assemble molecules which they regard as necessary for life and searching for the process which can endow those molecules with life. But they always fail. WHY do they fail? After all, they ARE scientists.
Zzzzzzzz
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 07, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


We have heard for many decades and have provided food, medical and training for many decades to no avail. Perhaps it's time to let the natural course of evolution take place. They are clearly not the fittest.

Many, many genes are being passed on due to outside help that otherwise would have ended through natural selection.

"Outside help"? To this point there have exactly zero influences on life on this planet from off-planet. Is there some OTHER "outside"? People have been helping one another since we came into existence. That is the only way we survived to this point, according to scientific study. To pretend otherwise is very baldly a path to escapism,
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
Understand its been said on other forums & maybe other threads here, one wonders if any idle transmissions by lower level aliens (LLA) communications were 'deflected' by the higher level aliens (HLA) to protect LLA from broadcasting their presence to us ie before they could be contacted by HLA to join the overall disparate community & be protected from idiocy

- - Mike Massen

You would be assuming that the HLA have formed a 'Federation of Planets' whose intent is to prevent some sort of "contamination" by the denizens of a planet full of idiots (not necessarily planet Earth which has its own idiots). But if the LLA have the superior tech that would enable them to contact a planet full of idiots, they would not likely make known their presence to LL idiots on whose planet its denizens largely have an interest mainly on LL entertainment & are of LL intelligence. They would have thought it out carefully before proceeding with any FIRST CONTACT. (cont'd)
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
(cont'd)
However, if the LLA have a hostile nature (that is key) and their intent is to conquer and subjugate, and possibly eliminate the denizens of a mildly intelligent planet, then the only thing that will prevent them from carrying out that intent, is the moral superiority of the HLA if such HLA are aware of said intent.
But, it may also be possible that the HLA has sent "emissaries" to such a planet of LL denizens (e.g. Earth), so that the level of intelligence and sense of morality might be increased, and moral turpitude decreased with the help of the HLA. For HLA to express such benevolence would make more sense than expressions of hostility toward a relatively immature, young race/Life Form.

My opinion is that "they" are here already, but are keeping a low profile while observing humanity for the purpose of ascertaining our worth whether to join their family of planets or not.
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
Thought arose few days ago when I saw this interesting video because, if one considers issues such as attention span over a generational period in conjunction with intelligent & presuming HLA are conscientious then they may well view what appears as a protracted length ugly nuclear war continually going on here - well, that a radio/TV broadcasts of so much inane soaps, US presidential rhetoric, religious infighting eg sunni/shia, sects with judaism, catholics & others...
- Mike Massen

While it IS true that the population of Earth seem mostly to be concerned about drivel and place much importance on things of no great consequence that have no "rhyme nor reason", any HLA who are observant enough to recognize that this fledgling race has much to learn and really isn't all that bad, would be more inclined to provide a "teachable moment" to those who are heads above the more limited-minded. (cont'd)
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
(cont'd) - Mike Massen
They (HLA) would understand the "class" system regarding intelligence and their benevolence would have to include fair treatment to all, but paying particular attention to the advancement of those whose intelligence far exceeds that of the "masses".
It is a form of discrimination, sure. But it is the ones who display that higher intelligence and morality who will ultimately be welcomed to join the family of Planets. Boorish behavior not allowed.
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
MRBlizzard, "about five years ago" they were still switching off the old analog transmitters, the last analog translators were switched off on 7 June 2011. After that, because the EM spectrum is a precious commodity, those frequencies are being reused.

Remember in the movie Contact the aliens rebroadcasted the first transmission back that they received from us, which unfortunately was Hitler at the Olympic Games in Berlin. Sounds like this might be part of your urban legend. But hey, if I am wrong, you can use instructions embedded in the interlaced frames to build a wormhole portal.
- Mark Thomas
Hey...don't make fun of "wormhole portals".
:)
obama_socks
1 / 5 (1) Mar 07, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


We have heard for many decades and have provided food, medical and training for many decades to no avail. Perhaps it's time to let the natural course of evolution take place. They are clearly not the fittest.

Many, many genes are being passed on due to outside help that otherwise would have ended through natural selection.
- victory engineer

The "moral compass" of religions and other sources of human compassion require us to continue benevolence toward the masses, in spite of their stupidity and lack of common sense/rationality.
Anything else would be regarded as genocide, racism, bigotry, lack of compassion to our fellow man, etc.
In essence, you can't buck the system, nor should you want to.
obama_socks
3 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2016
What if starving people from some part of Africa called, but nobody heard?


We have heard for many decades and have provided food, medical and training for many decades to no avail. Perhaps it's time to let the natural course of evolution take place. They are clearly not the fittest.

Many, many genes are being passed on due to outside help that otherwise would have ended through natural selection.

"Outside help"? To this point there have exactly zero influences on life on this planet from off-planet. Is there some OTHER "outside"? People have been helping one another since we came into existence. That is the only way we survived to this point, according to scientific study. To pretend otherwise is very baldly a path to escapism,
- Zzzz
Try using your mind for once. The "OUTSIDE HELP" referred to is help from OTHER COUNTRIES such as the USA, Europe, Russia, etc. It has nothing to do with E.T.
Sheeeesh
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (6) Mar 07, 2016
Presumably, a Gravitational Wave could be used for communications. But its source would have to be the Earth or another body with a magnetic field strong enough to produce such a Wave.
How do you know that it can't be done? Same principle as radio waves, perhaps.

Yeah, but... you'd need a WAY bigger power source...:-)
With gravity waves, it'd be more like a drum.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (6) Mar 07, 2016
Too many unknown variables to say left or right but I'll just stay on the right for now.... We are really alone (WARA).
- gculpex
What is your proof for such an assertion that we are really alone?

I don't think he was actually asserting it. More like an "I'm from Missouri..." statement
Scientists are presently trying to assemble molecules which they regard as necessary for life and searching for the process which can endow those molecules with life. But they always fail. WHY do they fail? After all, they ARE scientists.

Cuz they haven't discovered or included all the right variables, just yet?
Tsk, tsk, tsk... You humans are always things in such a rush...
Must be that short life span thingy...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (6) Mar 07, 2016
My opinion is that "they" are here already, but are keeping a low profile while observing humanity for the purpose of ascertaining our worth whether to join their family of planets or not.

It's just good business practice....
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (5) Mar 07, 2016
The "moral compass" of religions and other sources of human compassion require us to continue benevolence toward the masses, in spite of their stupidity and lack of common sense/rationality. Anything else would be regarded as genocide, racism, bigotry, lack of compassion to our fellow man, etc.
In essence, you can't buck the system, nor should you want to.

Cold, cold, cold.
But true
Colbourne
1 / 5 (1) Mar 07, 2016
Just because we may be alone now does not mean thats how it is going to continue. All the time life forms from Earth are escaping in to space and eventually they may seed other planets. Of course there is also the high chance that humans will spread into space as well.
In the future after our civilisation fails and another species becomes the dominant species they may be able to contact the remains of the human species around other stars.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Mar 08, 2016
Earth or another body with a magnetic field strong enough to produce such a Wave.

Magnetic fields do not produce gravitational waves

Presumably, a Gravitational Wave could be used for communications.

They could.
The advantage is that they couldn't be shielded (you'd get the transmission even if you were hiding behind a star)
The disadvantage is that they couldn't be shielded (you could not send a directional message. you'd always be broadcasting omnidirectionally)

Oh, and another disadvantage would be that you'd need a rather large supply of fairly massive black holes or neutron stars at you disposal. And that you'd be preferrably FAR off from where you're sending the message from.

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