Clouds may have more of an impact on El Nino than thought

January 5, 2016 by Bob Yirka report
The 1997 El Nino seen by TOPEX/Poseidon. Credit: NASA

(Phys.org)—A small team of researchers from the U.S., Australia and Germany has found evidence that suggests cloud formation may have a much bigger impact on weather patterns associated with El Niño events than has been thought. In their paper published in the journal Nature Geoscience, the team describes they differences they found when they input cloud data into computer models that simulated weather patterns associated with El Niño' events and why they now believe that all such models should include such data going forward.

Scientists predicted that El Niño' weather events would be more severe this winter compared to recent events, and thus far, their predictions have proved to be true—temperatures have fluctuated wildly in parts of Europe and the U.S. along with associated rain events, leading to serious flooding. In this new effort, the researchers have found that cloud formation may have more influence on such weather events than has been thought.

The El Niño/Southern Oscillation (ENSO) as it is known formally, causes the most weather variability on a small time scale, and attracts an enormous amount of attention due to associated changes in rain patterns—the western parts of the U.S. and the northern parts of South America, for example, typically see more than normal amounts of rainfall, while parts of Africa experience droughts. As scientists struggle to truly understand global associated with ENSO, they debate the degree of impact of oceanic process versus those that occur in the atmosphere. In this new effort, the researchers suggest that the atmosphere may exert much more of an impact on ENSO events than has been thought, due in large part, to cloud formations which can serve as a blanket of sorts, preventing warm air from escaping from lower elevations, which can lead to more rainfall.

To better understand the impact of cloud formations on ENOS , the researchers input cloud data into standard climate models and compared the results with models running under the same conditions without cloud data. They report that they were surprised to find that the data caused large changes to atmospheric circulation patterns and accounted for more than half of the strength of ENOS events. They suggest their findings indicate that all future climate models include so that they can offer a better representation of real events, and thus, give better predictions.

Explore further: Team finds new way to identify which El Nino events will have biggest impact on U.S. winter weather

More information: Gaby Rädel et al. Amplification of El Niño by cloud longwave coupling to atmospheric circulation, Nature Geoscience (2016). DOI: 10.1038/ngeo2630

Abstract
The El Niño/Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is the dominant mode of inter-annual variability, with major impacts on social and ecological systems through its influence on extreme weather, droughts and floods. The ability to forecast El Niño, as well as anticipate how it may change with warming, requires an understanding of the underlying physical mechanisms that drive it. Among these, the role of atmospheric processes remains poorly understood. Here we present numerical experiments with an Earth system model, with and without coupling of cloud radiative effects to the circulation, suggesting that clouds enhance ENSO variability by a factor of two or more. Clouds induce heating in the mid and upper troposphere associated with enhanced high-level cloudiness over the El Niño region, and low-level clouds cool the lower troposphere in the surrounding regions. Together, these effects enhance the coupling of the atmospheric circulation to El Niño surface temperature anomalies, and thus strengthen the positive Bjerknes feedback mechanism14 between west Pacific zonal wind stress and sea surface temperature gradients. Behaviour consistent with the proposed mechanism is robustly represented in other global climate models and in satellite observations. The mechanism suggests that the response of ENSO amplitude to climate change will in part be determined by a balance between increasing cloud longwave feedback and a possible reduction in the area covered by upper-level clouds.

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Scroofinator
1 / 5 (4) Jan 05, 2016
In this new effort, the researchers suggest that the atmosphere may exert much more of an impact on ENSO events than has been thought, due in large part, to cloud formations which can serve as a blanket of sorts, preventing warm air from escaping from lower elevations, which can lead to more rainfall.


Interesting considering in this lowered stage of solar activity we have an increase in galactic cosmic rays which have been theorized to induce greater lower level cloud formation. So is this a potential double whammy ENSO event?

http://www.albany...GR02.pdf
antigoracle
2.2 / 5 (10) Jan 05, 2016
We know so little about these natural events that have such a dramatic effect on climate/weather but yet we squander billions on the AGW lies.
Caliban
4.1 / 5 (9) Jan 05, 2016
We know so little about these natural events that have such a dramatic effect on climate/weather but yet we squander billions on the AGW lies.


auntiegizzard knows so little about anything at all, yet still squanders countless hours trolling this site with denierside diaper contents.
Mike_Massen
2.7 / 5 (12) Jan 06, 2016
Scroofinator makes tangential implications in this claim
Interesting considering in this lowered stage of solar activity we have an increase in galactic cosmic rays which have been theorized to induce greater lower level cloud formation
Theorized yes, but never quantified (ie. read the link offered) to show anywhere near any comparable order of magnitude effect. In any case a short term change in cloud influenced by 3.

Key relationship between CO2/Heat/WaterVapour (WV)

1. CO2 http://woodfortre...esrl-co2
2. Heat https://en.wikipe..._forcing
3. WV https://en.wikipe...ometrics

Scroofinator added
So is this a potential double whammy ENSO event?
Who knows. is there any quantification ?

Scroofinator's link
http://www.albany.edu/~yfq/papers/Yu_CR_CN_Cloud_Climate_JGR02.pdf
Unfortunately Nil on quantification as causal issue re enthalpy, key ∆ WV lifter still radiative forcing via CO2
Mike_Massen
2.8 / 5 (13) Jan 06, 2016
antigoracle Fails claiming
We know so little about these natural events that have such a dramatic effect on climate/weather
How "dramatic" antigoracle ?
Seems at it again obfuscating, as a disingenuous alarmist failing to comprehend & imposing emotive language pushing dumb denier agenda

antigoracle claims
... but yet we squander billions on the AGW lies.
Which particular 'lies', where squandered ?

Lets look at the main ∆ re enthalpy, is that a lie, you recall don't you or forgotten already
https://en.wikipe...transfer
leads to
https://en.wikipe..._forcing

Is the proven Physics of ~100yrs an AGW lie ?

How's it possible antigoracle for so Many scientists, engineers, researches all across the world to conspire so very well indeed to agree to this when all they need do is examine the underlying Physics ?

Inference, deduction & re logic aren't in your Skill set at all, so what Could it be I wonder ?

Learn Physics !
antigoracle
3 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2016
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot read, far less comprehend. Mutterin Mike, please get someone with a brain to read and explain the study, which has identified something that was unknown about the El Nino event, which is currently responsible for the dramatic weather across the globe.
Grow a brain!
Mike_Massen
2.5 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
antigoracle the redneck rager cannot prove anything tangible utters with immense angst & continuing evidence of low IQ says
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot read, far less comprehend. Mutterin Mike, please get someone with a brain to read and explain the study, which has identified something that was unknown about the El Nino event, which is currently responsible for the dramatic weather across the globe
Um er Prove it ? How 'dramatic' & causality ?

What basis in causality ? did you even read the paper - oh dear another antigoracle goof :-)

antigoracle with typical redneck imbecilic rant
Grow a brain!
Wow, your very best phrase as it comes from you then it must be logically an inherent expression of latent insecurity, is it Nietzsche, Descarte or even Hitler you admire ;-)
Scroofinator
3 / 5 (4) Jan 06, 2016
From the abstract of my link:
"Systematic variations in ionization rates due to the modulation of cosmic ray radiation by the solar cycle are sufficient to cause notable variations in aerosol production, and we find that the signs of such variations are altitude dependent. Our study indicates that an increase in cosmic ray fluxes generally leads to an increase in particle production in the lower troposphere but a decrease in particle production in the upper troposphere."

What happens if we have more particles floating around in the air? Cloud nucleation becomes easier as the WV has something ionized to attach to.
Unfortunately Nil on quantification as causal issue re enthalpy, key ∆ WV lifter still radiative forcing via CO2

Did you even read this article that you're posting on? It, and I, have said nothing about whats causing the WV to rise, only that there are lower level clouds acting like a blanket to trap in heat.

Sad that you must force AGW into everything...
antigoracle
2.5 / 5 (8) Jan 06, 2016
Um er Prove it ? How 'dramatic' & causality ?

What basis in causality ? did you even read the paper - oh dear another antigoracle goof :-)


Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot READ, far less COMPREHEND.

The El Niño/Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is the dominant mode of inter-annual variability, with major impacts on social and ecological systems through its influence on extreme weather, droughts and floods.

As quoted from the first sentence in the abstract. Mutterin Mike, how can I prove anything to you, when you're incapable of reading?
Grow a brain! :-)
Mike_Massen
2.2 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2016
Scroofinator (S) misread my post
... an increase in particle production in the lower troposphere but a decrease in particle production in the upper troposphere
Fine but, you confirm observation of Nil quantification
https://en.wikipe...science)

For cloud study, obviously cloud influences climate, is obviously a global phenomena than the best quantification must be in Watts per square meter.

S says
... WV has something ionized to attach to
Sure, which means more precipitation potentially, Psychrometry tells us it will evaporate again, did you read it ?

S asks
Did you even read this article that you're posting on?
Indeed, did you understand significance ie "input cloud data into standard climate models"

S says
..nothing about whats causing the WV to rise
Thats Why I added Psychrometry info.

S says
..clouds acting like a blanket to trap in heat
Thats Why quantification necessary & appreciate key ∆ re heat.

cont
Mike_Massen
2.2 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2016
cont
@Scroofinator claims
Sad that you must force AGW into everything...
Wrong, didn't "force" anything re AGW, You just brought it up !

Since article mentioned climate models & the link you offered had negligible quantification I added info re key relationship between the delta heat that obviously affects ENSO, so You could gain more detailed view

Psychrometry has been Very well studied & relationships keenly tested, so obviously any effect which increases cloud & as you put it "traps heat" which You brought up, not me, has to be seen in context with competing effect.

ie. Increased cloud formation can lead to increased precipitation which means the clouds diminish but, from the study of Psychrometry its clear water evaporates again & back to the cycle with clouds again, capisce' ?

Key factor in all of this is that IF we know the quantification of that delta re Watts per square meter Then we can include that in the climate models mentioned in article :-)
Mike_Massen
2.1 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
antigoracle wasting time littering forums with mere barks
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot READ, far less COMPREHEND
Still can't prove ANY of your claims & so easily led by Uncle Ira who stalks & defames, what a pair you are, both of you can't discuss Physics/Science or even post relevant links !

antigoracle misread Again
As quoted from the first sentence in the abstract. Mutterin Mike, how can I prove anything to you, when you're incapable of reading?
Grow a brain! :-)
Anyone reading this will notice you followed Scroofinator to try to score a political point re his ambit claim but, you Failed, read my reply to him & learn !

Clearly I read the article otherwise why would I post links relevant to understand more of the process, deduction still not your best skill ?
Uncle Ira
4.7 / 5 (12) Jan 06, 2016
]Still can't prove ANY of your claims & so easily led by Uncle Ira who stalks & defames, what a pair you are, both of you can't discuss Physics/Science or even post relevant links !


Skippy for a brilliant genius and the resident expert on every subject you sure are slow when it comes to life in the real world.

I did post the link I found,,,

http://www.calais...t=267448

,,,, so you lie when you say again I don't post links. And you really should do something about that sweet demeanor of yours that you use to show how you are the resident genius on the physorg. (That may why you get so many insults you are always whining about peoples sending your way.)

Anyone reading this will notice


That Mike-Skippy not only wants everybody's attention, he also gets mad when his "style" draws attention that makes peoples have fun with him.

Go Learn Physics. Oh, you already know everything, pardon.

antigoracle
3 / 5 (6) Jan 06, 2016
CLEARLY I read the article otherwise why would I post links relevant to understand more of the process, deduction still not your best skill ?


Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot READ, far less COMPREHEND.
Just like he CLEARLY read his link to Wikipedia which CLEARLY stated Bonobos were apes, yet he CLEARLY said they were monkeys.
Grow a brain!
bschott
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 06, 2016
]Still can't prove ANY of your claims & so easily led by Uncle Ira who stalks & defames, what a pair you are, both of you can't discuss Physics/Science or even post relevant links !


Skippy for a brilliant genius and the resident expert on every subject you sure are slow when it comes to life in the real world.

I did post the link I found,,,

,,,, so you lie when you say again I don't post links. And you really should do something about that sweet demeanor of yours that you use to show how you are the resident genius on the physorg. (That may why you get so many insults you are always whining about peoples sending your way.)

Anyone reading this will notice


That Mike-Skippy not only wants everybody's attention, he also gets mad when his "style" draws attention that makes peoples have fun with him.

Go Learn Physics. Oh, you already know everything, pardon.



Best Ira post ever. 5 Gumbo points for you cher.
Mike_Massen
1.8 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2016
Uncle Ira Failed to comprehend
when I said
discuss Physics/Science or even post relevant links !
Skippy for a brilliant genius and the resident expert on every subject you sure are slow when it comes to life in the real world. I did post the link I found,,,
http://www.calais...t=267448
Not Physics, the immature making false claims

Uncle Ira doesn't get it
,, so you lie when you say again I don't post links
No, see proof above you Fail to post Physics/Science relevant links.

Evidence confirms Uncle Ira stalks, defames, makes things up & Fails to investigate properly, re link Failed to check with site admins that Refunds were offered. Grow up please, learn Physics & stop littering the forums with redneck barbs, not mature & invites mindless copycats eg antigoracle

A bad pattern of Uncle Ira is tell people what you think they think, its childish !

Post useful/relevant Physics links :-)
Mike_Massen
1.4 / 5 (10) Jan 06, 2016
antigoracle insane repeating rubbish
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. Mutterin Mike, keeps shamelessly confirming the fact that he cannot READ, far less COMPREHEND.
Just like he CLEARLY read his link to Wikipedia which CLEARLY stated Bonobos were apes, yet he CLEARLY said they were monkeys.
Grow a brain!
Already covered that, apologised long ago and you responded to it, so why act like a mob low-life, why can;t you post relevant physics links, you really are just like Uncle Ira - get on the bandwagon & try to hurt and along with that push a political agenda !

At least Uncle Ira tried humour to worm his way into acceptance in a field he knows nothing about but, NO rationale as to why Unclue Ira stalks & defames, ugh

And NO apology from Uncle Ira for getting so many things wrong, from incomplete searches to childish redneck barbs, ugh
Mike_Massen
1.4 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
bschott jumped on the mob mentality prejudicial bandwagon showing himself up
Best Ira post ever. 5 Gumbo points for you cher.
Welcome to the ugly bunch bschott with best you could do.

Still failed to answer my questions re your claims, was your position even tenable ?

Uncle Ira, try to get a grip this is a Science agglomeration site, your evident behaviour in stalking & attacking is NOT mature, NOT sensible & the way you go about it is NOT sane. Getting upset because I offer an opinion re gkam's retirement, his military service etc and in context with his background is NOT reason to stalk & defame me.

You got it all wrong, made huge mistakes & NOT man enough to apologise, ugh

Very low activity Uncle Ira & matches antigoracle and now bschott too, great to know who the idiots are and great to have the presence of mind to learn how ugly people can so easily become despite the fact this is Science agglomeration/info site & not a soap opera.

Grow up please, ugh
Mike_Massen
1.4 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
Uncle Ira says
Skippy for a brilliant genius and the resident expert on every subject you sure are slow when it comes to life in the real world
Beg Pardon ? never claimed to be a genius, odd you think that, tell me why ?

Real world apparently according to you is its good to lie, stalk & defame and NOT apologise when you are proven wrong, Man up !

What is wrong with you ?

Uncle Ira says
I did post the link I found,,,
http://www.calais...t=267448
Not a physics/science, in any case you Failed to find page on forum where I offered refunds when I recovered from 18 months of depression following death of my mother in my care, several breakins, loss of our family home by an errant mortgagee all in quick succession

Do you have some pleasure in ugliness Uncle Ira, & some pleasure in trying to put people down, are you so very insecure ?

Should I feel sorry for you, your immaturity is immense, ugh ?
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
A bad pattern of Uncle Ira is tell people what you think they think, its childish


Mike-Skippy is the hypocrite with the double standard or has a mental condition where thinks it doesn't count when he does it because he Mike-Skippy.

Beg Pardon ? never claimed to be a genius, odd you think that, tell me why ?


Mike-Skippy shows he never read very many of his own postums without ooohing and aaahing at it.

some pleasure in trying to put people down


Mike-Skippy fails to make a postum without referring back to his hypocrisy and the double standard he makes for him self.

After reading so many of his postums here I am beginning to think his ,,,,,,,

immaturity is immense, ugh ?
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (11) Jan 06, 2016
Skippy I am here because I enjoy watching people do what they do. This is a perfect place to watch how peoples see them selfs or would like to see them selfs.

This is not the "University Thinking Tank" or the "International Conventions for the Great Ideas in Science". It is the physorg article comment section.

You come here to comment and be noticed. I come here because that is entertaining for me. If you don't like what I notice, maybe you should 1) Try not to be so noticeable. or 2) Try to leave out the parts I am noticing. or 3) Put me on ignore because I am not going to stop noticing. or 4) Remember this is the last refuge for peoples like you who get the boot-a-roo at the real forums because of your insulting, arrogant, condescending way of talking to peoples.

Pull up your big boy panties and get over your self. It ain't that big a deal. The silly stuffs here won't change the world for good or bad. There are better places for saving the world.
antigoracle
3 / 5 (8) Jan 06, 2016
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. It's a pity that all Mutterin Mike knows is 2 links to his alma mater, Wikipedia. Mutterin Mike obviously FAILED the class covering wiki search. So here yer go Mutterin Mike.
this climate pattern's oscillations cause extreme weather (such as floods and droughts) in many regions of the world

https://en.wikipe...illation
Now go find a Bonobo "monkey" to read and explain it to you.
Mike_Massen
1.5 / 5 (8) Jan 07, 2016
Uncle Ira claims
Mike-Skippy is the hypocrite with the double standard or has a mental condition where thinks it doesn't count when he does it..
Wrong, I don't go around stalking, defaming or making things up, if I am shown wrong I apologise

If you imagine otherwise - Prove it ?

Evidence here on forums, YOU are a stalker/liar, caught !

Uncle Ira claims
Mike-Skippy shows he never read very many of his own postums without ooohing and aaahing at it
Prove it ?
I address the Physics, the Science, the interpretations from best rationalisation of my experience, I don't go around idly stating what's in another persons mind, you are childish !

Uncle Ira claims
Mike-Skippy fails to make a postum without referring back to his hypocrisy and the double standard he makes for him self
Prove it ?

I don't go around stalking, defaming & lying Eg Their ebay account being closed or they stole, only ugly low lifes do that Uncle Ira !

You've been caught, grow up !
Mike_Massen
2 / 5 (8) Jan 07, 2016
Uncle Ira says
Skippy I am here because I enjoy watching people do what they do
And a way to stalk & dig for dirt on them & make up things to hurt them !

What a low life you are !

Uncle Ira says
This is not the "University Thinking Tank" or the "International Conventions for the Great Ideas in Science". It is the physorg article comment section
Wrong!
NOT a soap opera medium !

Its where the articles are & should be the primary topics on commentary, secondary are issues related to the topics and that includes clarification of the underlying Physics & Science.

You Uncle Ira FAIL to do that, instead you litter forums with:-

- imaging what people think of themselves
- stalking them and being proud of it
- defaming them
- making things up

The Evidence for ALL the above is on the forum, why can't you think of that are you imbecile ?

When are you going to grow up apologise for your immense mistakes ?

- Stalking
- Lying about my ebay acct

Grow up FFS !
Mike_Massen
1.5 / 5 (8) Jan 07, 2016
antigoracle incoherent a mere prjudicial copycat
Mutterin' Mike, Wikipedia (2 links) scholar, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar, fraud and thief, is still pretending to know science. It's a pity that all Mutterin Mike knows is 2 links to his alma mater, Wikipedia. Mutterin Mike obviously FAILED the class covering wiki search. So here yer go Mutterin Mike
this climate pattern's oscillations cause extreme weather (such as floods and droughts) in many regions of the world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Niño_Southern_Oscillation
Now go find a Bonobo "monkey"
Read link conjunction with quantification

Bonobo's are Apes, apologised for the error long ago, what's your problem ?

antigoracle same as Uncle Ira, make mistakes but Don't apologise for them & whats worse continue to litter the forums with personal attacks without addressing Physics or Science

Both Uncle Ira & antigoracle Fail to address base Physics or Science !

Learn Physics !
bschott
4 / 5 (4) Jan 07, 2016
bschott jumped on the mob mentality prejudicial bandwagon showing himself up


If you want to refer to the growing number of people who have made you look stupid in a thread as a bandwagon then I have been on that "bandwagon" since the first time we interacted. But yeah, it's a HUGE bandwagon.

if I am shown wrong I apologise


Bullshit. You are usually wrong and never apologise for it, instead becoming increasingly obtuse and aggressive, usually in the form of a multi-post rant....as above.

Pull up your big boy panties and get over your self.


New best Ira post, and sound advice that you should take.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Mike-Skippy is the hypocrite with the double standard or has a mental condition where thinks it doesn't count when he does it..
Wrong, I don't go around stalking, defaming or making things up, if I am shown wrong I apologise

If you imagine otherwise - Prove it ?

Evidence here on forums, YOU are a stalker/liar, caught!

Uncle Ira claims
Mike-Skippy shows he never read very many of his own postums without ooohing and aaahing at it
Prove it ?
I address the Physics, the Science, the interpretations from best rationalisation of my experience, I don't go around idly stating what's in another persons mind, you are childish !

Uncle Ira claims
Mike-Skippy fails to make a postum without referring back to his hypocrisy and the double standard he makes for him self
Prove it ?

I don't go around stalking, defaming & lying Eg Their ebay account being closed or they stole, only ugly low lifes do that Uncle Ira!

You've been caught, grow up !

Learn Physics I
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Skippy I am here because I enjoy watching people do what they do


What a low life you are!


Cher you got the serious mental condition. You are starting to get shrill and hysterical.

Uncle Ira says
This is not the "University Thinking Tank" or the "International Conventions for the Great Ideas in Science". It is the physorg article comment section
Wrong!


Well I may be wrong about that. Would not be the first time. But I think it is right. And Skippy, I am in a position to know more about that than you are or will be.

Its where the articles are & should be the primary topics on commentary, secondary are issues related to the topics and that includes clarification of the underlying Physics & Science.


And a place where Mike-Skippy gets to show his chops, eh?

Grow up FFS!


I rest my case, you have the mental condition. You are making the spectacle of your self (and not the one you are chooting for)..
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Like the mold which rots most of the South, the Decent Folk will never get completely rid of the fools who play their silly games.

This is a science site, but the goobers here want to make it twitter for adolescents, making their puerile comments about others, instead of discussing the science.

Once again:

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

Eleanor Roosevelt
US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

Let's get back to the science instead of the silly personal stuff.
Eddy Courant
5 / 5 (4) Jan 07, 2016
I think we can all agree at least in part on one thing: What a wonderful winter we're having!
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Like the mold which rots most of the South, the Decent Folk will never get completely rid of the fools who play their silly games.

Does that mean something?
This is a science site, but the goobers here want to make it twitter for adolescents, making their puerile comments about others, instead of discussing the science.

But it does not count when glam-Skippy joined up make puerile comments and insults and silly slogans.
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

So what does that say about your mind Cher? You brought it to me first. I guess it is supposed to say you are yet one more couyon who thinks he should get the special pass and he not the hypocrite for whining about other peoples doing what he did first.
Let's get back to the science instead of the silly personal stuff.

Well why you don't say something sciencey some times then? Goobers and deniers and new-agey slogans are not sciencey.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
I think we can all agree at least in part on one thing: What a wonderful winter we're having!


Well I am sorry Cher. Even though you have a positive outlook on life and I usually prefer that my self, I can't be one of your "all agree" about that thing. It has not been so peachy here. I ain't complaining and it has been worse and will probably be worse again too. But it has been one of the really bad ones for us.
Eddy Courant
4 / 5 (4) Jan 07, 2016
I think we can all agree at least in part on one thing: What a wonderful winter we're having!


Well I am sorry Cher. Even though you have a positive outlook on life and I usually prefer that my self, I can't be one of your "all agree" about that thing. It has not been so peachy here. I ain't complaining and it has been worse and will probably be worse again too. But it has been one of the really bad ones for us.

Where is here, Unc? If you don't mind my asking.
bschott
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 07, 2016
Let's get back to the science instead of the silly personal stuff.


You mean how you always manage to keep your cool when Otto comes at you?

Don't preach qualities you don't adhere to. Ending the post you just put up with that remark, lets have a look:

Like the mold which rots most of the South, the Decent Folk will never get completely rid of the fools who play their silly games.


but the goobers here


Small minds discuss people.


Looks like you get pretty personal in the same post you advise us not to....oops.

TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2016
Let's get back to the science instead of the silly personal stuff
Sure but first tell us again about your silly junior birdman of the month award, and what it has to do with anything ever discussed here.

Bschott - I'm just an excuse for george to talk about himself. We all are. If the attention isn't on him he will say something outrageous just to get it. Ever notice that?

We will never affect Georges sickness or keep him from exposing himself here.

What we can do, is debunk his lies and explain to people who try to engage with him exactly what he is and what he does.

This is easy to do and takes very little time because george is one of the shallowest and clumsiest psychopaths I have ever encountered.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 07, 2016
George at his complementary dinner
https://youtu.be/qLzrWnpeKoE
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Where is here, Unc? If you don't mind my asking.


I do not mind at all non. I am from southern Louisiana and work the Mississippi River from just above St Louis to just below New Orleans.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Until we get rules to identify trolls, we will always be susceptible to abusers like Ira and otto, who specialize in nasty remarks and silly attacks, instead of valid discussion.

Let's get back to the science. This is a science site, not Twitter for junior-high kids.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Until we get rules to identify trolls, we will always be susceptible to abusers like Ira and otto, who specialize in nasty remarks and silly attacks, instead of valid discussion.


But we do have those rules Cher. That is how you got identified as the troll. All your "valid discussions" got debunked and you got mad.

Let's get back to the science. This is a science site, not Twitter for junior-high kids.


You keep saying but,,,,,,

Well but I don't know what. It was you making up science off the top of your head that got you in this pickle Cher. And after the 16 months you still think you get to have special consideration because,,,,

Cher, I really want to know. Why do you think you should not be holded to the same standard as everybody else? Why do you think any of the things you complain about all the time are not the same things you have done since day one you showing up here? Why that is Skippy? We really want to know.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Show us your degrees, Toots. Show us your real name, as I did, Toots. Tell us why you hide.

In the conversation about high-speed aircraft, I mentioned how I served at Edwards AFB, which you screamed was not true. I sent a pdf of the front page of the base newspaper with my picture on it as Airman of the Month for the entire Air Force Flight Test Center, (which includes Groom Lake, Area 51 to goobers).

You said I lied about being an original member of the group which developed, tested, deployed and operated Igloo White, the Electronic Battlefield, until I sent you to three military websites with my name and/or picture on them.

You denied Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine bought one of my real stories, until I sent you a copy of the check. We went through all this with my Master of Science degree, and lots of other stuff. Your wife told you she suspected the thesis was something else, and never having seen one, you bought the silly statement.

More to come.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
You thought you found a fake, like otto, and pounced on me. When I proved I am real, it completely got to you, never having seen someone with multiple professional fields. Face it, you got nasty and were beaten in your own game of gotcha.

Shall I go through the series of claims and proof?

Let's get back to science.
Scroofinator
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 07, 2016
Anyone else notice the post that sounded like MM but was under Ira's account? I shall call them Ol M Mira
Evidence here on forums, YOU are a stalker/liar, caught!
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Shall I go through the series of claims and proof?


That's when started losing any support you ever had here. Are you sure you want to double down on that? For a person who cares too much about his interweb rep you sure are pretty slow.

Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
Anyone else notice the post that sounded like MM but was under Ira's account? I shall call them Ol M Mira
Evidence here on forums, YOU are a stalker/liar, caught!


Non, it was me but I goofed up trying to make a comment inbetween the quotes while I was putting in stuffs. When I noticed it, I thought, what the heck, let's see who gives Mike-Skippy's stuffs the bad karma votes.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 07, 2016
"Support"? What is this, part of your game? This is a forum to discuss science, not play social games. PLEASE go back to high-school or where this kind of nonsense is appreciated.

You showed all of us that you had insufficient character to admit you got beaten in your own game.

Whine away.
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (1) Jan 07, 2016
Hmm ok Ira. Seems suspicious but I don't really care, just thought it was weird.

Back to some science though, it seems that a strong El Nino correlates pretty well to a solar minimum:
http://ggweather..../oni.htm
and
http://www.nasa.g...raph.jpg

In theory, more clouds to trap in the heat means hotter oceans
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2016
Until we get rules to identify trolls
Trolls are easy to identify. They post shit like this:

"Fallout is the main cause of lung cancer

HIGH ENERGY alpha cannot penetrate skin

Swimming pools are routinely used to provide residential cooling

There was an H2-initiated prompt criticality in dirty molten Pu at fukushima which mustve occured somewhere high above the site because a crater wasnt created

Manure dust is called volatile solids and is a main constituent of pollution in the 'high air' above the central valley

It is ok for george to double the number and intensity of earthquakes in a region on a given day because he has actually experienced them

Pu is raining down on idaho"

-And of course this:

"You dream of me otto. You can't help it. Every comment I leave gets under your skin.

You can be played like a cheap kazoo..."

"Psychopaths... the remarkable ease with which they lie, the pervasiveness of their deception, and their callousness..."
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2016
"Support"? What is this, part of your game? This is a forum to discuss science, not play social games
Support is an indication of how many people still fall for your lies. Nobody here believes a word you say any more.
More to come
-And none of this crap makes all the lies you tell or the facts you make up true.

Does it?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 07, 2016
Thats why its so pathetic.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
It is nice to be so special!

I have completely dominated the life of someone who would not have one otherwise.
Scroofinator
1 / 5 (2) Jan 08, 2016
You're all annoying and egotistical, your mothers would be proud...
Eddy Courant
4 / 5 (4) Jan 08, 2016
Where is here, Unc? If you don't mind my asking.


I do not mind at all non. I am from southern Louisiana and work the Mississippi River from just above St Louis to just below New Orleans.

Got enough water? Your fish need whiskers to swim in that mud. You've seen better winters is right.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
"You're all annoying and egotistical, your mothers would be proud..."
------------------------------------

Are you pure? My posts are in reaction to the attacks I got from Ira and otto. I have been trying to get us back on the science track,but some folk are here for their silly games.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
Where is here, Unc? If you don't mind my asking.


I do not mind at all non. I am from southern Louisiana and work the Mississippi River from just above St Louis to just below New Orleans.

Got enough water? Your fish need whiskers to swim in that mud.


Got way too much water and the stuffs in the too much water. Some fishes use whiskers to feel their way around in the mud, some do not.

You've seen better winters is right.


Yeah, not so many I can remember that is as bad as this one. This one has been historic bad. At least for us it has been.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
Are you pure? My posts are in reaction to the attacks I got from Ira and otto. I have been trying to get us back on the science track,but some folk are here for their silly games.


Cher, you tell a GREAT BIG LIE. Again. It's all there for anybody who wants to look. You flung the first rock. (But some peoples don't think it counts when they do it. When they do it they a fighting for a noble cause and all is fair for their tribe. Rules are only for goobers and people who disagree.)

And it seems that it is only hypocrite couyons who do all the complaining about how they are getting all the insults and forgetting the ones they fling out with every post. The ones that don't count.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
I see your "truce" is over once you got what you wanted in the electric car thread.

Stop it! Grow the hell up.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (9) Jan 08, 2016
I see your "truce" is over once you got what you wanted in the electric car thread.


But Cher, YOU flung a rock here first this morning. I know you don't think it counts when you do it, but that is all in your imaginations.

Stop it!


I'll think about it, a little bit.

Grow the hell up.


I get that a lot from Mrs-Ira-Skippette too. But she don't get mad enough to use the bad words non. She always tells peoples "My droll little couyon will never grow up."
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
Good-bye. I have said I do not want to play your games.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (10) Jan 08, 2016
Good-bye. I have said I do not want to play your games.


Got to give the bad karma point on that one Cher. You getting even more like Really-Skippy. One good bye is enough. (One night he good byed me about 40 or 39 times in a row for four or three hours.) Three good byes is you thinking you are making some kind of rhetoricment that is witty and something when it is only you being silly some more.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Jan 09, 2016
I have said I do not want to play your games
Naw you want to play your own games...
It is fun to bait Ira now...
-And...
And you dream of me. You can't help it. Every comment I leave gets under your skin.

You can be played like a cheap kazoo
A psychopaths entire life is about playing games with other people.

"In short, the psychopath - and the narcissist to a lesser extent - is a predator."

"what does the psychopath REALLY get from their victims? It's easy to see what they are after when they lie and manipulate for money or material goods or power. But in many instances... it is not so easy to see what the psychopath is after... we can only say that it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer."

-And since george could no longer manipulate and torture people in the workplace, because of all those damned HR pros who know all about him, he can only get his kicks online now.

HERE, he cant hear people laughing at him. And so they arent.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 09, 2016
George kamburoff isnt here to brag about all those failed jobs.

No.

Hes here to brag about all his conquests.

Because they impress HIM all to hell.

It doesnt matter if its obvious that he couldnt keep all those jobs. He just likes to brag about how he lied and cheated in order to GET them.

"One psychopath interviewed by Hare's team said quite frankly: "The first thing I do is I size you up. I look for an angle, an edge, figure out what you need and give it to you. Then it's pay-back time, with interest. I tighten the screws.""

-Its obvious IMO that georges entire life is a 'gotcha' game.

"... they believe their own lies. After all their life is nothing but a lie, a sham, how can we possibly assume they know anything different."

"They perceive themselves as superior beings in a hostile world in which others are competitors for power and resources. They feel it is the optimum thing to do to manipulate and deceive..."

-Theyrs animals. Predators. Scum.

IMO.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 09, 2016
Oh I missed these... george the psychopath innocently laments
I have been trying to get us back on the science track
-but then reveals his whole Purpose in Life:
I have completely dominated the life of someone
"The prison psychiatrist had written in his record: "good progress... he appears more concerned about others and to have lost much of his criminal thinking.

"Two years later, Hare's staff member interviewed the man... assessed by his prison psychiatrist as having made such remarkable improvement, was described by Hare's staffer as "the most terrifying offender she had ever met and that he openly boasted about how he had conned the prison staff into thinking that he was well on the road to rehabilitation. "I can't believe those guys," he said. "Who gave them a license to practice? I wouldn't let them psychoanalyze my dog! He'd shit all over them just like I did."

-Is there any doubt we are dealing with a psychopath here?
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Jan 09, 2016
No doubt, otto. Your adolescent fixation on me and your need to continually bring up psychopathy is pretty obvious evidence of wanting to be stopped. You are screaming "Please make me end this condition of psychological inadequacy!" We get the point.

The result of a stunning bout of self-realization, your condition of malice is really pointed at yourself, in a fit of self-loathing.

Only someone with that terrible condition would act like you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 13, 2016
Your adolescent fixation on me and your need to continually bring up psychopathy is pretty obvious evidence of wanting to be stopped
No, this is how it appears to YOU. To everybody else it appears that, according to the evidence I and others continue to present, you are most likely a psychopath.

If there was a thief in your neighborhood would you ignore him, or would you keep hounding him until he was caught?

Most people here now know who and what you are.
gkam
1 / 5 (8) Jan 13, 2016
Let's find out who you are, otto, the one who cowers behind a phony name, attacking others like a coward. All we know is you have a fixation on the person who actually did and earned the things to which he referred as experience.

It must have been galling to know everyone watched you getting beaten at your own silly game of gotcha.

Time to fess up, otto. Who are you? Come on, . . I promise we will be laughing WITH you, not AT you, . . . really.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 13, 2016
Time to fess up, otto. Who are you? Come on, . . I promise we will be laughing WITH you, not AT you, . . . really
I TOLD you clown. Im the guy who will continue to check what you post, pretty much every day, and flag all the lies and made-up facts you post.

Along with many others here.

And I and others will continue to educate new people here as to the kind of person you REALLY are, and what they can expect from you.

Despite your attempts to hide behind claims of education and experience, real or imaginary.

Youre as phony as they come george.
https://www.youtu...PW8RlUvE
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Jan 13, 2016
Quit finding distractions, otto. Who are you? If you continue to hide, we will feel we are correct in our judgment of those who cower and abuse others on the internet.

Tell us again how you got the right to display the Order of the British Empire. I proved to you I was in the Air Force, did studies for NASA, helped start, deploy and operate the Electronic Battlefield, and other stuff, while you just HIDE.

Stop hiding, otto. No more cowering, like a typical scared Closet Fascist.

Go ahead. Reveal your little self.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 14, 2016
I do admit, lying cheating psychopaths are indeed a distraction.

Most people don't come here to brag about their accomplishments, real or imagined. Most people come here to discuss the science.

You however find an excuse to brag about yourself in most every thread.

How come?

Most people consider this pretty slimy and would be ashamed to act this way.

How come you dont?

I already gave you the answer which is apparent to most everybody who's followed your bullshit for any length of time; you're obviously a very sick man.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Jan 14, 2016
Gosh, otto, I am sorry to have had all those experiences, but not as sorry as you. When hypersonic aircraft came up, I related my brief work with X-15 launches and my work on the rocket-powered NF-104s. You called me a liar,so I sent the pdf of being Airman of the Month for the entire Air Force Flight Test Center.

Shall we go into Electronic Reconnaissance and the Electronic Battlefield? Technical studies and reports for NASA? Tests of the GE Mark I & II BWR SRV system? The Master of Science? My name and picture on three military websites? The development and presentation of the national Power Quality Course for the Electric Power Research Institute?

Shall I go on?

Now, tell us how you earned the right to display the OBE.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 14, 2016
Gosh, otto, I am sorry to have had all those experiences, but not as sorry as you. When hypersonic aircraft came up, I related my brief work with X-15 launches and my work on the rocket-powered NF-104s. You called me a liar,so I sent the pdf of being Airman of the Month for the entire Air Force Flight Test Center.

Shall we go into Electronic Reconnaissance and the Electronic Battlefield? Technical studies and reports for NASA? Tests of the GE Mark I & II BWR SRV system? The Master of Science? My name and picture on three military websites? The development and presentation of the national Power Quality Course for the Electric Power Research Institute?
-See?
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Jan 14, 2016
What I see is a list of a real person's experiences. Proven.

What/where are yours?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 15, 2016
What I see is a list of a real person's experiences. Proven
You see them through the eyes of a lying, cheating psychopath.

Of course you think theyre worth talking about.

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