New study shows that lion populations in much of Africa are in rapid decline

October 27, 2015

Published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS), the study estimates that lion numbers in West and Central Africa are declining sharply and are projected to decline a further 50% in the next two decades without a major conservation effort. Lion numbers are also declining, albeit less dramatically, in East Africa, long considered the main stronghold of the species. The study also shows that almost all lion populations that historically numbered at least 500 individuals are in decline.

A team of scientists from global wild cat conservation organisation Panthera, Oxford University's WildCRU, Grimsö Wildlife Research Station, IUCN Species Survival Commission Cat Specialist Group, and the Department of Ecology, Evolution and Behavior at the University of Minnesota estimated the trajectory of by compiling and analysing regional population trend data for 47 different lion populations across Africa. The analysis showed that whereas most lion populations in West, Central, and East Africa are declining, increases in lion populations occurred in four southern countries: Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe.

Lead author Dr Hans Bauer of WildCRU said: 'These findings clearly indicate that the decline of lions can be halted, and indeed reversed as in southern Africa. Unfortunately, lion conservation is not happening at larger scales, leading to a vulnerable status of lions globally. In fact, the declines in many countries are quite severe and have enormous implications.

'If resources for wild lands cannot keep pace with mounting levels of threat, the flagship species of the African continent may cease to exist in many countries.'

Globally, lions are listed as Vulnerable on the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species, though the species is considered to be Critically Endangered in West Africa. The results of this study reaffirm the lion's conservation status in West Africa and further suggest that regional assessments yield a more accurate picture of lion populations than do global assessments. Based on the data, the authors recommend that the lion be regionally uplisted to Endangered in Central and East Africa, while populations in southern Africa meet the criteria for Least Concern.

Dr Luke Hunter, President and Chief Conservation Officer of Panthera and a co-author, said: 'We cannot let progress in southern Africa lead us into complacency. Many lion populations are either gone or expected to disappear within the next few decades. The lion plays a pivotal role as the continent's top carnivore, and the free-fall of Africa's lion populations we are seeing today could inexorably change the landscape of Africa's ecosystems.'

The authors note that conservation efforts in southern Africa are successful for a number of reasons, including low human density, significant resources, and perhaps most importantly, the reintroduction of lions in small, fenced and intensively managed and funded reserves. Dr Paul Funston, Senior Director of Panthera's Lion Program, said: 'If we don't address these declines urgently, and at a massive scale, the intensively managed populations in southern Africa will be a poor substitute for the freely roaming lion populations in the iconic savannahs of East Africa. In our view, that's not an option.'

The study drew on the most comprehensive dataset so far compiled on the lion, which also informed the most recent Red List assessment of the species. Senior author Professor Craig Packer of the University of Minnesota, who also serves on Panthera's Scientific Council, said: 'Estimating future population trends requires sophisticated forecasting techniques, and we performed one of the most comprehensive statistical analyses of conservation status over such a large scale. The results clearly indicate the need for immediate action across most of Africa.'

Explore further: Lions in west and central africa apparently unique

More information: Hans Bauer et al. Lion ( ) populations are declining rapidly across Africa, except in intensively managed areas , Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2015). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1500664112

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gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Oct 27, 2015
Hunters will be lining up to be the person who killed the "last one".

Meanwhile, I will suggest to this hunter she name the dog Karma.

http://www.bbc.co...34644333
jsdarkdestruction
4.2 / 5 (10) Oct 27, 2015
Hunters will be lining up to be the person who killed the "last one".

Meanwhile, I will suggest to this hunter she name the dog Karma.

http://www.bbc.co...34644333

Hunting lions for sport is not done by true hunters. That you'd try to link the two is absurd. You are gravely misinformed.
Do you eat meat? Do you know how its killed? Do you know the morals hunters pass on of conservation and ethical hunting practices and respecting the animals and their dying so we may survive?
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Oct 27, 2015
Hunters do it for kicks.

Do not try to tell me otherwise. It's the thrill of killing, not hunger.

Thrill-killers.

What if the prey could exact its own revenge at a distance? How many brave hunters would we have then?
jsdarkdestruction
4.3 / 5 (12) Oct 27, 2015
I guess your ignorance can't be helped so I won't bother to say it again.
However.
Do you eat meat?
Would you prefer to be electrocuted in the head and then have your head cut off while still alive or die nearly instantly from blood loss?
The prey items take life to survive too. What if their prey could get revenge? Plants are living being too. So are insects. Plants can't run away at all and most survive without taking life. What did they do to deserve such a horrid fate?
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Oct 27, 2015
Do you eat lions?

Really?
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (11) Oct 27, 2015
You are the one who said all hunters are thrill killers. I already told you the ones hunting lions for sport are not real hunters.
To answer your question, if I killed a lion I would eat it. A true hunter doesn't waste and eats what they kill.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Oct 27, 2015
Admit it, most kill for "sport", which means kicks.
jsdarkdestruction
4.6 / 5 (11) Oct 27, 2015
To recap. You compared thrill killings of lions to a ethical true hunter who had an accident getting shot and implied she deserved it.
I said those thrill killers aren't real hunters and comparing it was absurd and asked if you truly knew the thing you attacked unfairly.
You said all hunters are thril killers don't bother to say more because your opinion is predetermined and what if prey could get revenge.
I pointed out prey take life to survive too. Including plants which can't even move and most survive without taking life. And asked what if the animals we hunt's prey could get revenge on them. I also commentedon the way livestock are killed versus the way hunters take life.
You replied by asking if I eat lions.
It feels like you are trying to walk what you argued back some. And you still haven't answered if you eat meat. Sorry if I get heated but the stereotype you were trying to push on all hunters sickens me. Every true hunter I know would rather shoot a poacher than a lion
jsdarkdestruction
4.6 / 5 (11) Oct 27, 2015
Guess I spoke too soon.
No. Its not true. Do you eat meat? Have you met hundreds of conservationists who are also hunters or even went hunting? If you eat meat you disgust me. Go to the slaughterhouse and see how your food dies.your closed minded ignorance of reality is sad. Go see a factory farm and theconditions in some of them. If you eat meat you are a hypocrite of the highest rank.if you don't eat meat, how can you live with yourself taking the lives of all those defenceless plants? How do you sleep at night?
gkam
1.3 / 5 (12) Oct 27, 2015
Settle down.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (12) Oct 27, 2015
Have you stopped screaming? Good.

I do not like to kill. Maybe you like exercising your mastery over tool and object, but I am sick of the taking of lives, whether you, your dog, or that spider under your bed.

I used to kill jackrabbits, bouncing around in the back of a pickup truck late at night with a shotgun at age nine. I got Expert in the service. I outgrew it, and got sick of killing in the service, where I did none. Just being part of it was enough.

Yes, you can go into all kinds of silly extremes, pushing semantics to silly levels, but there it is. I eat less and less meat every year. I do not fish any more. I feed strays. If you kill one, the insertion of your gun will make it hard to for you walk right again.

Did you read The Secret Life of Plants? There's some fuel for your silly tirade.
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (14) Oct 27, 2015
Have you stopped screaming? Good.


glam-Skippy, he was not screaming. He was taking the exception to your broad-brushing slogans, like everybody else does.

I do not like to kill.


Good for you Skippy. So?

I used to kill jackrabbits, bouncing around in the back of a pickup truck late at night with a shotgun at age nine.


I love it when you get started on a tale about how cool you were.

I got Expert in the service.


What does that have to do with anything?

I outgrew it, and got sick of killing in the service, where I did none. Just being part of it was enough.


Your postums read like a bad novel Cher. You should be embarrassed.

pushing semantics to silly levels, but there it is.


Every time somebody points out how silly your broad-brushy slogans are you always claim semantical foul.

If you kill one, the insertion of your gun will make it hard to for you walk right again


What the heck does that mean?
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (12) Oct 27, 2015
I'm not screaming. Id have used all caps if I was.
I hate killing if not for survival purposes and even then dont get enjoyment out of ending a life. I stop people from even killing insects. I have lived like this since 13-14 years old.
You would feel better if you accepted your part in the food chain as well as pur preys.
You went to the extreme of saying all hunters are thrill killers.
I have 3 cats that were strays when I got them. I love animals. I think shoving a gun up someone's ass is kinda screwed up but I agree people who kill strays for fun should be brought to justice.
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (9) Oct 28, 2015
This story is much bigger than the issue of hunting. In fact - "many conservationists say that without trophy hunting there would be no lions at all" From - http://www.thegua...s-africa If we want to avoid the extinction event that seems to be beginning now - we have to understand the whole problem, and come up with realistic solutions. Habitat destruction is clearly the biggest of the problems - and figuring out how to feed, cloth, shelter, transport ourselves - at the same time as preserving biodiversity - looks like a big problem, that needs some big solutions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (10) Oct 28, 2015
Thrill-killers
Well its an innate thrill to kill predators that were killing fellow tribesmen. Its what gave apes dominance over all other species, but unfortunately began their continuous struggle against the ravages of overpopulation.

This is probably akin to the thrill a psychopath gets when he succeeds in tricking an unsuspecting victim.

"...the thing that drives them and causes them to act out different dramas for effect - is a sort of "predatorial hunger""

"the psychopath - and the narcissist to a lesser extent - is a predator. If we think about the interactions of predators with their prey in the animal kingdom, we can come to some idea of what is behind the "mask of sanity" of the psychopath. Just as an animal predator will adopt all kinds of stealthy functions in order to stalk their prey, cut them out of the herd, get close to them and reduce their resistance, so does the psychopath construct all kinds of elaborate camoflage..."
cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (12) Oct 28, 2015
IOW IMO george kamburoff is a thrill poster. He gets his kicks from pretending to be things he is not and knowing things he doesnt.

His reward comes when dupes like thermodynamics and greenonions et al fall for his lies and unsuspectingly join him in his games, and also when he thinks he has successfully eluded (in his mind) those who expose them.

"No matter how outrageous his behavior others often stood by and inadvertently fueled his grandiosity and denial... psychopaths put on the nicest act, and you look like the harpy and bitch, and so everyone takes their side, it is a horror story"
http://www.cassio...path.htm

"And you dream of me. You can't help it. Every comment I leave gets under your skin... You can be played like a cheap kazoo..." -george kamburoff/gkam

We can understand why gkam may especially abhor the killing of a predator with whom he might subconsciously identify with.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (11) Oct 28, 2015
Perhaps we have reached the second great genesis of the human race - the ability to identify and cull the predators in our midst.

"The World has only one problem, Psychopaths. There are two basic types of Psychopaths, Social and Anti-Social. The essential feature of Psychopaths is a Pervasive, Obssesive- Compulsive desire to force their delusions on others. Psychopaths completely disregard and violate the Rights of others..."

-And once we can see the threat for what it is, and comprehend the level of damage done by the psychopath, and the effect it has had on the progress of the human race, will we have the strength and resolve to do what must be done?

If we rid ourselves of the psychopath will crime then cease, will economic collapse end, and will religion disappear?

Will trust in the people we choose to lead us return?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (9) Oct 28, 2015
Evidence says the psychopath cannot be fixed and will never change.

"One of the basic assumptions of psychotherapy is that the patient needs and wants help for distressing or painful psychological and emotional problems. The psychopath does not think that they have any psychological or emotional problems, and they see no reason to change their behavior to conform to standards with which they do not agree. They are well-satisfied with themselves and their inner landscape. They see nothing wrong with they way they think or act, and they never look back with regret or forward with concern. They perceive themselves as superior beings in a hostile world in which others are competitors for power and resources. They feel it is the optimum thing to do to manipulate and deceive others in order to obtain what they want."
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Oct 28, 2015
Wow, four empty posts form the sneak who is on Ignore. I must have gotten to him, somehow. He has a real fixation on me since he lost his game of gotcha, which backfired on him. He and Ira cannot forgive those who best them.

I just count the empty posts of those two on Ignore, and assume they are still posting in frustration.

Maybe he is one of the gun freaks. Those with poor self-esteem are regular customers of gun stores. Especially if they understand their inferiority is genuine.
gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Oct 28, 2015
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Oct 28, 2015
Wow, four empty posts form the sneak who is on Ignore
And youre a liar. Lots of people tell you this.

"... the psychopath is two-dimensional. They are, as someone once said, as "deep as a thimble."

-Youre a LOT less clever than you think you are.

Hey hows that in-process slander thing going?

Gutless.
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (10) Oct 28, 2015
Gkam, *sigh*, are you now making broad generalizations about gun owners and collectors or am mistaken?
In general I have no issues with you usually but I gotta say your seemingly closed minded generalizations about large groups of people you don't understand and refusing outright to hear any more info because your mind is already made up reminds me a lot of ren and viko and how they act. Please step back and take a minute to reflect on that.

gkam
1.3 / 5 (12) Oct 28, 2015
jsd, I do understand. I like to shoot guns, too. Running through a few clips on full auto on the M-16 was a kick, I admit. I like target shooting. I do not like taking life.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Oct 28, 2015
jsd, most of my wrath is for those with handguns. Handguns are made only to kill humans.
Estevan57
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 30, 2015
So to use a handgun properly, you have to go out and shoot someone?

What a stupid thing to say.

The same thing could be said about knives, baseball bats, or anything else used to kill by an imaginative psychopath.
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (13) Oct 30, 2015
So to use a handgun properly, you have to go out and shoot someone?


@ Estevan-Skippy. How you are? I am good, not a care in the world. I am not ashamed to say, I use the long gun improperly, I choot the deer, the duck, and the pheasant sometimes too. According to glam-Skippy chooting the long properly means shooting at the target. I do that sometimes but not as much as the deer, the duck and the pheasant sometimes too.

But glam-Skippy will be glad to know, I will use my hand gun properly in the dead of the night and some psychopath comes messing around at my door. Even though I use the hand improperly more than properly by chooting a lot of targets with him.

@ glam-Skippy I just got know. If you are the Expert with full auto M-16 and love to choot him at targets,,,, where the heck did you find one that uses clips? I ain't never seen the Expert chooting clips with the M-16 or any other usual long gun.

Estevan57
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 30, 2015
Uncle Ira, I am fine, and I also hunt, usually for deer, sometimes for elk. I keep about half, and give the rest to a meat shop that has a program to give meat products to the needy.
I have a handgun for protection at home, but doubt I will ever use it.

I also use both rifle and handgun improperly by shooting innocent paper targets.

gkam:
The grouping of people into stereotypes based on the bad behavior of a few is a nasty habit.

Do people call you a war criminal? Or a respected veteran? It depends on your behavior, and not the reputation of the worst people you are included with.

I call you you a dumbass, because it amuses me to see a supposedly educated person act so ignorantly about such a broad range of topics.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (12) Oct 30, 2015
"I call you you a dumbass, because it amuses me"
--------------------------------

Oh, good.

Simple pleasures for simple folk.

Don't let anyone else get that handgun. It is your responsibility. That means, locked up. But if it is locked up, it is not useful for home "defense", is it?

So, you folk can leave it accessible, . . . for kids and burglars, . . . . to be "safe"?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2015
Hunters do it for kicks
Do not try to tell me otherwise. It's the thrill of killing, not hunger
@gkam
more unsupported all-encompassing conjecture G?
i put groceries on my table. period

As JSDark points out: you eat meat, wear/use animal products
that makes you accessory after the fact
http://weknowmeme...egan.jpg

most kill for "sport"
personal conjecture
please also note: as long as you eat (anything, doesn't matter what) you also kill something that was once alive
gun freaks. Those with poor self-esteem are regular customers of gun stores
sigh... so, that means you are weak? poor self esteem? because you said
I like target shooting
that means, by logic, you visited a gun store, right?
Handguns are made only to kill humans
i hunt with mine. there is a season for it, you know
or didn't you know that?
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Oct 31, 2015
I keep about half, and give the rest to a meat shop that has a program to give meat products to the needy
@Estevan57
they do that here too: it is actually common in the local small butchers. you "pay" by leaving part of the meat for selling or donate it to needy folk
It is one reason i taught my grandkids to hunt: taking the meat puts groceries on the table of not just us, but others in need

.

So, you folk can leave it accessible, . . . for kids and burglars, . . . . to be "safe"?
@gkam
OR
you can wear it. thus it is not accessible to criminals or kids unless they're capable of taking it from you

the problem is NOT the tool, it's violence

if you want to fix something, fix the violence

https://thenotson...-fat.jpg
jsdarkdestruction
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 31, 2015
Gkam, their is also right to carry laws in some states. Meaning you can openly carry a weapon in public. Some states allow concealed carry with permit. People also have them to defend their businesses as well. So its not as simple as just home defense. Hunting with them is also allowed some places.
It is also foolish to assume all who own a handgun are careless and irresponsible.
1. Responsible gun owners teach their children about guns and what happens if you play with them and they are something to be respected. Its worked for me and everyone else in the extended family.
2. I can get my gun safe open in about 15 seconds.
Estevan57
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 31, 2015
gkam - since you are presumptuous enough to give advice about guns -

It stores 2 fingerprints for two people. My wife wanted this when we bought OUR handgun.

http://www.cabela...3066.uts

35% off when the new store opened in Tualatin! Thrifty. It sure didn't look full of people with low esteem to me.

And learn to quote people completely, don't cherry pick partial phrases.
" I am sick of taking lives, whether you, your dog, or that spider under your bed, it's the thrill of killing, not hunger". - gkam

See how that can work?
gkam
1.5 / 5 (13) Oct 31, 2015
You folk have good arguments.

I still think it is better to not be so scared you need a man-killer.

Please be careful.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (12) Oct 31, 2015
You folk have good arguments.

I still think it is better to not be so scared you need a man-killer.

Please be careful.
Theres a big difference between fearless and oblivious.

Your magnificent self-delusions cannot protect you when some (other) psychopath decides he deserves your stuff and your daughters more than you do.

Or when theyre just looking for a little fun.

"... we can only say that it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer. Just as normal humans enjoy seeing other people happy, or doing things that make other people smile, the psychopath enjoys the exact opposite"

-Perhaps you think you can just bullshit them into submission? Because you saw it in some old movie perhaps?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Oct 31, 2015
I still think it is better to not be so scared you need a man-killer.
@gkam
1- you are not the same as everyone: don't assume your situation or life is the same as everyone

2- if you can't actually comprehend the issue, then why are you commenting on it with conjecture that is so easily refuted?

3- scared is a subjective term, and some people are trained to function even when scared. you can see this in law enforcement, fire departments and medical professions (or others as well, like Oil riggers and linemen) regularly

4- do not suppose anyone else has the same fears you do without evidence

it is far better to be able to defend ones self than to become a target or statistic

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NZGKvGFNUtE/US4FlfU9EmI/AAAAAAAAa24/zINgfJRgWn4/s1600/GUN+RIGHTS+POSTER.png

gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Oct 31, 2015
Okay, just stay away from my family when you are playing with your gun.
Estevan57
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 31, 2015
Okay gkam, I will.
Just promise to not let them burgle my house or jump in front of my paper targets.
jsdarkdestruction
4.7 / 5 (12) Oct 31, 2015
You folk have good arguments.

I still think it is better to not be so scared you need a man-killer.

Please be careful.

1. Has your opinion truly changed?
2. I'm not scared. I doubt most people who legally carry and own guns are.
3. Yes. I will be careful and continue to do what I can to ensure others are as well.

Can you please not spread negative stereotypes about hunters and gun owners as if all or most or even more than a small minority are that way?
jsdarkdestruction
4.6 / 5 (11) Oct 31, 2015
Okay, just stay away from my family when you are playing with your gun.

Guns are not toys. Saying " playing" is not giving them the proper respect.
Do you take your family to shooting ranges and other safe areas responsible gun owners safely shoot their guns?
gkam
1.4 / 5 (13) Nov 01, 2015
Come on, it's all about power. Whether you are Stumpy getting his "groceries" with his .45 automatic or whatever, it is exercising POWER that is the lure of guns.

We just have to trust you folk to do it rationally and safely.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 01, 2015
Come on, it's all about power
@gkam
only with you, and only because you delusionally believe it to be such
this is because of your religious and political affiliations, most likely
http://www.ploson...tion=PDF

it is exercising POWER that is the lure of guns
so, you are saying that the only reason i hunt is to exercise power?

are you really being that stupid?
i hunt because i like to eat. i like putting food into my wife, children and grandchildren's bellies. i like being able to put food on the table

just because you believe something doesn't make it true
We just have to trust you folk to do it rationally and safely

https://www.psych...ttle-ego

and it is a M1873 .45 Colt Peacemaker revolver, you idiot
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Nov 02, 2015
Come on, it's all about power
Its not just about power.

"This leads us to an important question: what does the psychopath REALLY get from their victims? It's easy to see what they are after when they lie and manipulate for money or material goods or power.

"we can only say that it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer..."

-Our only protection from the psychopath predator who cases our home or business at his leisure, testing defenses, looking for weaknesses, is a handgun.

"I was once dumbfounded by the logic of an inmate who described his murder victim as having benefited from the crime by learning "a hard lesson about life."
http://www.cassio...path.htm
gkam
1.5 / 5 (10) Nov 02, 2015
Here is some news about how a gun carrier took out a theater shooter:

http://www.dailyk...il=email
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 03, 2015
Here is some news about how a gun carrier took out a theater shooter:

http://www.dailyk...il=email
@gkam
And here is a video and article about one of those gun carriers stopping a crime and NOT FIRING A SHOT
http://hotair.com...ns-life/

that wasn't about "power", it was about saving a life and protecting someone

this is your own fallacy, george
you think everyone is like you (fallacy)
you think everyone has the same lifestyle/capabilities (fallacy)
you think cops will always be able to protect the innocent (HUGE fallacy, and cops will tell you this one)

http://media-cach...f521.jpg
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (9) Nov 04, 2015
George thinks power is a bad thing. But the power to defend ourselves from psychopathic predators is obviously a good thing.

Maybe george resents and fears this ability when he sees it in others.

Psychopathic predators don't LIKE it when they can't get what they feel they deserve.
gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 04, 2015
"you think cops will always be able to protect the innocent (HUGE fallacy, and cops will tell you this one)"
-------------------------------

Unfortunately not. And they are there to protect me from gun nuts!

Outgrow that need for killing. You can do it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (10) Nov 05, 2015
"you think cops will always be able to protect the innocent (HUGE fallacy, and cops will tell you this one)"
-------------------------------

Unfortunately not. And they are there to protect me from gun nuts!

Outgrow that need for killing. You can do it.
Hey george - notice the lion in the photo above? He's laughing at you.

Like everybody else. They do have lions and clowns in the circus dont they?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 05, 2015
"you think cops will always be able to protect the innocent (HUGE fallacy, and cops will tell you this one)"
-------------------------------

Unfortunately not. And they are there to protect me from gun nuts!
you don't talk to many cops then, do you?

perhaps you should start polling them?
Outgrow that need for killing. You can do it.
so... you are saying i don't need to eat or feed my family because you are a spineless coward with a need to hide?
Are you going to feed my family?
what about protection? the ONLY way to protect yourself and your family without the 2nd amend is to carry a cop around... very impractical

quit letting your baseless fear argue for stupidity

http://media-cach...f158.jpg

http://media-cach...f521.jpg
gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 05, 2015
It's not baseless, Stumpy, and that is what gets your goat, not me. Shall I start collecting each day's gun articles for you?

My son-in-law is a police sergeant in Oakland. I may know their world better than you.
gkam
1.4 / 5 (10) Nov 05, 2015
I do not have anything against you or others hunting deer for meat. That is not the issue. You do not use a handgun for that, do you? I speak of handguns, made to kill Human Beings.

I speak of those who "need" them because they are scared.

I cannot bring myself to kill anything anymore. If you can, fine.
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (11) Nov 05, 2015
My son-in-law is a police sergeant in Oakland. I may know their world better than you.


@ glam-Skippy. You can not help your self, can you Cher? How many times have said something as stupid as that and been have the fun with for saying it now? That is what makes all your postums so lame.
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (11) Nov 05, 2015
I speak of handguns, made to kill Human Beings.


There is only one thing wrong with unemotional and rational and witty and wise glam-ism. I have been owning and chooting handguns for over twenty years now. And I never did yet kill or even choot at a Human Beings. So you are saying I use mine wrong me? I choot a lot of paper targets. And I know about 100 or a 1000 other peoples that live in my neighborhood who never choot at Human Beings either.

I speak of those who "need" them because they are scared.


Do you ever think about how silly and foolish your unemotional and rational and witty and wise pronouncements sound? What? You think everybody is lying to you when they say that your BLACK & WHITE and BROAD-BRUSHING and SWEEPING GRAND OBSERVATIONS put the lie to all your EXPERIENCES? Trust me Cher they are not lying to you, you really do sound lame and silly.

You really can not help your self, otto-Skippy is right, you got the serious mental condition.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Nov 05, 2015
It's not baseless
then cite your sources
that is what gets your goat, not me
actually, it doesn't affect me at all
you are the one arguing from fear and hate, not i
Shall I start collecting each day's gun articles for you?
if that will make you feel better about lying, sure... but i also get at least 5 a day from NRA
a better argument would be one that is clinical, logical and without your fear-mongering
one that actually addresses the issue (violence) not the tool (guns)
I may know their world better than you
your son-in-law is in the field... so?
if you want to talk turkey: i was in the field too
if it is argument from authority you want, then my argument trumps yours, since you are not your son-in-law and i've had more investigative experience than you, for sure

but that is not the point, is it?
no, because there is no point in arguing a subjective argument (like yours above, or the argument from authority)
2Bcont'd

Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Nov 05, 2015
@gkam
I may know their world better than you
you are claiming to also have been employed as an investigator now? LOL
have you had to investigate your own friends murder yet? how about the first child you ever assisted in birthing on a roadside during a spring storm? let me know all about it when you do, eh?
You do not use a handgun for that, do you?
Actually, YES, I DO. when it is in season
i use a bow when it is in season, and a muzzle-loader, and rifle, and even primitive spear (though i use spear & gun mostly for hogs)

the point is, g, that you want to argue about the TOOL while ignoring the underlying issue, which is the VIOLENCE

if you want to try that, fine... but don't blame the tool for the death when it is inanimate

there are far more people killed yearly by hospitals and doctors (mistakes) than guns, but i don't see you rushing to ban hospitals or doctors!
nor cars for drunk driving!
or spoons for obesity related etc!

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 05, 2015
I speak of those who "need" them because they are scared.
so... is that why you specifically said the following:
Hunters do it for kicks.
Do not try to tell me otherwise. It's the thrill of killing, not hunger.
Thrill-killers
because that is not what you are saying there, g... in fact, it is nowhere NEAR anything like "those who "need" them...scared"...
it sounds like a judgement of anyone who hunts

you are the one playing the judgement card and blanket accusations condemning anyone with a gun... i am just pointing out that you are wrong, and you don't know everyone with a gun

and i don't care if you don't want to kill anything anymore... i personally don't want to either!
but i also have to feed my family!
so, who is the one who is wrong? you and your sanctimonious soapbox? me?

you aren't out to ban cars, hospitals, doctors, screwdrivers, spoons, fatty foods, or pharmaceutical companies, (all deadlier than guns) so put your righteous indignation away
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 05, 2015
So you are saying I use mine wrong me? I choot a lot of paper targets.
@ira
you vicious bloodthirsty killer, you...
LMFAO

gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 06, 2015
"you aren't out to ban cars, hospitals, doctors, screwdrivers, spoons, fatty foods, or pharmaceutical companies, (all deadlier than guns) so put your righteous indignation away"
--------------------------------------

I thought you were smarter than that, Stumpy. You know they are not made especially to kill.

Look up today's list of how many innocent people got killed by idiots with guns this week. You proudly justify your use of them, but all of you are dangerous to the rest of us, no matter what you think.

Call me scared of you and your need for killing, but I trust NOBODY with handguns. Not even my son-in-law the police sergeant, who is the most professional and mature cop I know.

I told you I have no problem with you killing to eat. Many deer would starve any way without culling. You are intentionally conflating the two.

Do you have a handgun? Why, . . are you are SCARED? Of whom?

I will not be around SCARED and armed people.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Nov 06, 2015
My son-in-law is a police sergeant in Oakland. I may know their world better than you.
Anecdotal evidence is relatively unreliable. When coming from a confirmed liar and fact-forger it is worse than useless.
Look up today's list of how many innocent people
...especially from lazy bastards who dont know how to use google. And who imply some truth by saying 'all you have to do is look it up.'

When we look up george kamburoffs pronouncements we usually find out theyre bullshit.

Which is why his word is worthless here.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 06, 2015
You know they are not made especially to kill
@gk
red herring, strawman argument and also argument from ignorance
Look up today's list blah blah
look up how many people were saved by a concealed carry owner as well as cops off duty without firing a shot, and then look up how many people stopped crimes with a firearm
then remember this: crimes are reported because it is required
the amount of crimes stopped by cops is very under-reported because there is NO requirement to track the statistic, so you will find about 10-20% of the accounts on line

two can play that game, george
...all of you are dangerous to the rest of us, no matter what you think
show me how willing you are to promote there is no need to own a gun!

move to South Central LA - then tell me again how there is no need for self protection
https://www.googl...n-5IU098

i've lived in places like this (not in LosA)
you are delusional
2Bcont'd
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 06, 2015
@g cont'd
Call me scared of you and your need for killing, but I trust NOBODY with handguns
so you never let your son-in-law visit? in your home?
you will never call the cops?
I told you I have no problem with you killing to eat
yet you seem to think that anyone who does is killing for the thrill?
do you think i LIKE it?
g- this is called delusional behaviour: you assume everyone is the same based upon your fears and stereotyping, and your prejudice is coloring the situation because you are not capable of rationally thinking the situation out at all
This is NO DIFFERENT than racial prejudice, sexism, religious intolerance, or any other prejudicial judgements that are based upon your internal fallacies rather than factual information

don't blame me for your irrational fears... either seek help for it or go push your ideology elsewhere

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Nov 06, 2015
@g cont'd
You are intentionally conflating the two
actually, it is YOU who is confused here, not i...
perhaps you should re-read your own comments?
Do you have a handgun?
Yep!
Why
i already told you, jeenyus.... to put food on my table
or can't you read?
it also can serve, and HAS served in other capacities
i don't own one out of "fear". i own one because i like food and living
are you are SCARED?
Nope. i fear nothing anymore

it irritates me that there are stupid people who are willing to disarm others out of irrational fears as well as delusional religious beliefs just because they are not willing to defend themselves, learn, research etc

people like you are the reason that there is a 2nd amendment

take your religious ideology and go post on a church site
http://www.ploson...tion=PDF

Captain Stumpy
not rated yet Nov 10, 2015
very relevant to the above topic

https://www.youtu...EhZK5pvY

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