Climate change to result in tasteless, poor-quality food

March 16, 2015
Credit: David Monniaux

Appetite for Change, a report prepared by leading climate scientists David Karoly and Richard Eckard at the University of Melbourne, reveals the impact that shifting rainfall patterns, extreme weather, warming oceans, and climate-related diseases will have on the production, quality and cost of Australia's food in the future.

Tasteless carrots, bad pizza dough and poor quality steak are some of the impacts we can expect from Australia's changing climate, according to the new scientific report released today to mark the launch of this year's Earth Hour.

From wheat, seafood and dairy products to poultry, meat, grains, and fruit and vegetables, the effects of global warming on a list of fifty-five household food items has been compiled for the very first time.

"It's definitely a wake up call when you hear that the toast and raspberry jam you have for breakfast, for example, might not be as readily available in 50 years time," said Associate Professor Richard Eckard from the University of Melbourne.

"Or that there may be changes to the cost and taste of we love and take for granted like avocado and vegemite, spaghetti bolognaise and even beer, wine and chocolate.

"It makes you appreciate that global warming is not a distant phenomenon but a very real occurrence that is already affecting the things we enjoy in our everyday lives, including the most common of foods we eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner, " he said.

Professor David Karoly, co-author of the report, said that out of all the impacts global warming is having on Australian farms, increases in heat-waves and bushfires pose the biggest threat to Australia's agricultural regions.

"Global warming is increasing the frequency and intensity of heatwaves and bushfires affecting farms across southern and eastern Australia, and this will get much worse in the future if we don't act.

"It's a daunting thought when you consider that Australian farms produce 93% of the food we eat," he said.

Key findings of the report reveal that:

  • Dairy foods are likely to be affected by warmer temperatures and more heat waves, as heat stress on dairy cows typically reduces milk yield by 10-25 per cent, and by up to 40 per cent in extreme heat wave conditions.
  • A warmer and drier climate will pose significant challenges to beef production systems in southern Australia. Southern pasture growing seasons are expected to contract, while increased heat stress may lead farmers to choose more heat tolerant cattle breeds possibly of lower meat-eating
  • quality.
  • Warmer temperatures adversely affect the flavour of carrots, as well as their texture and physical structure. Higher temperatures associated with climate change are likely to make carrot production less viable in warmer areas with shifts to cooler regions such as Tasmania.
  • Extremely hot weather can reduce the quality of bee honey and has other flow-on effects such as reduced pollination for fruit trees.
  • Higher temperatures and humidity can cause "late blight" in potatoes, which rots the tubers and makes them inedible.
  • Chickens are sensitive to heat stress, which will affect the quality of their meat. Increased droughts around the world are also leading to more volatility in the price of grain used to feed chicken.
  • Temperatures above 27°C will potentially cause bolting (prematurely running to seed) and poor colouring in beetroots.
  • Climate change is likely to reduce reliable rainfall and place pressure on water availability in Australia's current major rice-growing regions.
  • Rainfall and temperature changes will affect wheat growth, with lower and more variable production forecasted. The zinc and iron concentrations of Australian wheat are projected to be 5-10 per cent lower by the middle of the century, adding to pressures associated with malnutrition.
  • Climate change is acidifying our coastal waters making it harder for shellfish to build their shells.
  • Fruit trees and nuts in southern Australia will not get cold enough in winter to signal fruit development.

Anna Rose, National Manager of Earth Hour Australia and 2015 Australian Geographic Society Conservationist of the Year said the report highlighted the vulnerability of Australian farmers and the food they produce.

"Aussies are proud of our farmers for feeding the nation but they are on the frontline of global warming and are already feeling the effects of rising temperatures and more extreme weather," she said.

"That's why as part of Earth Hour on Saturday, March 28, millions of Australians will switch off their lights at 8:30pm to show their support for stronger action on and for the future of Aussie food and farming.

"If we don't tackle this issue head on and make the move to renewable energy while committing to a stronger target to cut carbon pollution, Australia is on track to import more fruit and vegetables than we export by the end of the century.

"This will result in higher food prices and poorer food quality, undermining our farmers' livelihoods and the viability of our rural communities."

Explore further: Australia to get hotter and bushfire season longer, study says

More information: The report is available online: www.sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/planettoplate

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83 comments

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mememine69
1.4 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2015
What do the people of the planet call 34 years of rejecting climate change ACTION to SAVE THE PLANET EARTH? Total victory! Now bring on the war crime charges for decades of needless fear mongering and CO2 death threats to billions of innocent children.
antigoracle
2.5 / 5 (11) Mar 16, 2015
Ha..ha..ha..haaa. I really needed a good laugh.
Tasteless, is what the AGW Cult claims to be science.
gkam
3.3 / 5 (12) Mar 16, 2015
There is nothing like an article like this to bring out the goober in folks. "So what", they say, "as long as some rich person gets richer."

The name mememememe says it all, revealing the true impetus for responses: Ultimate Selfishness - a terminal disease.
invino
2 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2015
They have completely run out of things to blame Global Warming (what do you mean it's not warming???), I mean Climate Change ..

.. food is already terrible and tasteless in the UK and across most of the West, had all to do with pumping animals with growth hormones and cramped conditions - or is CC to blame for terrible farming practices too? :)
gkam
2.5 / 5 (11) Mar 16, 2015
We understand the blame: It is the conservatives, the hateful, selfish and greedy, who concentrate power and money and will do anything to get and keep it. Ruining the Earth for everyone else will affect them, too, but they think they can avoid it with their money. Nope.

We have killed people all over the Earth, but have stayed safe,. No longer. The conservative wars will eventually come home, in the form of terrorists.

Short-sighted greed knows no bounds.
dadpt
1 / 5 (4) Mar 16, 2015
Most food is bland and tasteless anyways. If does taste like something it tastes like Chicken.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 16, 2015
bad pizza dough

Is that even possible? Anyone eaten at any of the big pizza franchises lately (Pizza hut, et. al.)? The quality is atrocious.

"Or that there may be changes to the cost and taste of food items we love and take for granted like avocado and vegemite

OK. They need not have mentioned Australia in the next paragraph. Vegemite is a dead giveaway.

But yeah - I guess life will become somewhat expensive Down Under. But hey - a country with that many days with perfect sunshine and more proposed coal power plants (11) than solar powerpolants (0). Makes perfect sense. No worries, right?
oneSTARman
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2015
I WISH all we had to worry about was crappy food instead of None at All.
The Heat and Drought from Catastrophic Climate Change will cause Global FAMINE
The Crop Failures have already Begun
Dethe
2.5 / 5 (4) Mar 16, 2015
The bad quality of tasteless vegetables is a product of greenhouse farming, accelerated with chemicals (ethylene) and harvested before complete ripening for sake of safer transport.
Yogi Greg
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 16, 2015
I agree we really had better stop putting some much pollution in the air--and water and soil, for that matter. BUT, I also AM SURE that we need to stop all the experimenting going on whereby nano-fibers are being added to jet exhaust--see US PATENT # 6,382,526 and 6,520,425--for details...trying to create cloud blankets to reflect the sun's rays back can have detrimental effects on that which is below it--as in "falling to the earth." Between this and GMOs/glysophate, our technology is now outstripping our WISDOM--and guess what, techno-man doesn't have the last word on these two human-generated mistakes, Mother Nature does...
Gimp
2.5 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2015
Really? Climate change is going to do all that, next it's going to make our children dumber, GKAM is already an example of that, it's going to make boogers greener, racial tensions tenser, dog and cats will start living together, democrats will start to think, republicans will support gay marriage, the humanity of it all, the sky is falling the sky is falling. Oh my oh my what ever shall I do........
sdrfz
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 16, 2015

Even if the Earth warms, it will lead to the availability of more crop land, and increases in the growing season for existing crops. So overall, there will be a net gain in the production of crops. There will be less reliance on transportation to move seasonally-produced crops to other areas where those crops can't be grown currently, lessening energy needs.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2015
Even if the Earth warms, it will lead to the availability of more crop land,

Wherever do you get that idea? It'll turn current cropland that is barely viable into deserts and, through increased variability, lead to more crop failure on the land that still supports any.

There will be less reliance on transportation to move seasonally-produced crops to other areas

Quite the opposite. Regions that are currently reliant on importing food for survival will be even more so. This means: more shipping (and shipping is the worst polluter of all)
RWT
2 / 5 (8) Mar 16, 2015
If you believe this then your IQ may be somewhere around the 60 mark.
Shootist
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 16, 2015
Climate Movement Drops Mask, Admits Communist Agenda

http://pjmedia.co...-agenda/
gkam
2.1 / 5 (9) Mar 16, 2015
Poor Gimp. I'll bet he got SCARED by those two draft-dodgers cowering in their Undisclosed Locations screaming "WMD!", and "Bring 'em on!".

No, Gimp, I learned from the Gulf of Tonkin to look behind the scenes. And with a Master of Science in this field, I watched climate change happen faster then we originally feared.

But you are free to make silly remarks, and advertise your lack of education.
Maggnus
3.9 / 5 (7) Mar 16, 2015
Climate Movement Drops Mask, Admits Communist Agenda

http://pjmedia.co...-agenda/


Reductio ad Communum. Reductio ad absurdum.

Stupiditas aere perennius
howhot2
3.9 / 5 (7) Mar 16, 2015
Tasteless carrots, bad pizza dough and poor quality steak are some of the impacts we can expect from Australia's changing climate, according to the new scientific report released today to mark the lunch of this year's Earth Hour.
The lunch? Huh? Haha. That's how I read it the first time. Hehehe.

The article makes some assumptions, but they sound fairly reasonable. Come 2100 or so, I really wonder if the world will be ready for 4C increase in global averages and the pressures that will put on food, be it fish from the oceans or grains from the great plains. It might even come sooner with California having it's worst droughts in a 1000 years. As we've seen in the Middle East, food scarcity is a concern to be reckoned with.

The deniers need to go watch the movie "Soylent Green" for a reminder of what global warming in an overpopulated world could do to them, their family and friends. It's a very real future scenario if we don't take action to stop global warming.

antigoracle
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 16, 2015
The AGW Chicken Littles truly live in their own ignorant world.
http://russgeorge...reening/
bluehigh
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 17, 2015
Climate change to result in useless, poor quality popular science reporting?

TheGhostofOtto1923
3.3 / 5 (6) Mar 17, 2015
Domesticated foods are already tasteless and devoid of nutrients compared to the wild stuff we evolved on. This is due to 15k years of selecting foods for quantity over quality in the desperate and futile struggle of populations to provide for themselves.

Chronic overgrowth forced people to cultivate grass, the last food that a hunter gatherer would choose to eat. Overpopulation has left us undernourished and unsatisfied and we resort to using spices and sauces to make domesticated foods palatable.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2015
No, Gimp, I learned from the Gulf of Tonkin to look behind the scenes. And with a Master of Science in this field, I watched climate change happen faster then we originally feared
And exactly what field was that again? The field that encourages you to ignore experts in other fields and make up your own facts, such as fallout being the main cause of lung cancer or that high energy alpha can't penetrate skin and so we don't really need all that reactor shielding?

You must carry your diploma with you at all times. You know for impressing gas station attendants and checkout girls in supermarkets.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2015
otto, this is a science site, not one for you to have your angry little rants and tantrums. Others have told you the same thing - to shut up.

If you do not like that I recount my experiences for others, then do not read them. You can ignore me, as I did to you for most of the time.

Please grow up and end this personal vendetta.
russg
3 / 5 (5) Mar 17, 2015
But the cure for climate change produces delicious abundant food... one ocean pasture restoration project converted millions of tonnes of CO2 into ocean life. The proof was seen in immediate catches of salmon. In Alaska one year following the ocean pasture restoration the catch of Pink salmon was expected to be 50 million fish... instead 226 million pasture fed Pink salmon were caught, the largest catch in all history. Hundreds of millions of servings of this delicious nutritious salmon bounty has been put into USDA food aid programs for American kids. That's a pretty tasty result. http://russgeorge...-salmon/
Jack Wolf
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2015
"tasteless, poor-quality" are terms that could also be applied to Congress.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2015
otto, this is a science site, not one for you to have your angry little rants and tantrums. Others have told you the same thing - to shut up.

If you do not like that I recount my experiences for others, then do not read them
Naw its offensive when people use their alleged experience to sell facts that they make up themselves. Nobody else does this here do they?

Its pretty obvious youre only here to brag about what youve supposedly done, which typically has little to do with the garbage you post. And nobody seems to give a shit as they never want to discuss them with you do they?

As always I will continue to point these things out, whenever and wherever. Clear? You should know this by now.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2015
"Clear?"
--------------------------

Not yet, L Ron, . .
MR166
3 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2015
" It is the conservatives, the hateful, selfish and greedy, who concentrate power and money and will do anything to get and keep it."

Do you mean people like Warren Buffet and George Soros there gkam.

When you make statements like that how can any of your other statements be considered unbiased.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
otto

You missed some of my posts in other threads - ready for your ones.

Did you see my prediction? Hmmmm?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
Not everybody who concentrates power and money is hateful, selfish, and greedy, . . only the conservatives.

When you ask questions like that how can any of your other questions be considered rational?
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 18, 2015
"Not everybody who concentrates power and money is hateful, selfish, and greedy, . . only the conservatives."

Thanks for proving my point. I now see how a supposedly educated person could support such untenable positions. Your hatred of conservatives is only exceeded by your hatred of free markets and love of big government.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
No, . . I do not trust Big Brother. We got Big Brother from the SCARED conservatives who got SCARED by the two draft-dodgers screaming "WMD!" and "Bring 'em on!", from their bunkers and Undisclosed Locations.

Have you noticed how now they do not want to PAY FOR IT?
howhot2
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
You know, that is just the way the Repubs roll; as @gkam notes; "draft-dodgers screaming "WMD!" and "Bring 'em on!", from their bunkers and Undisclosed Locations." ... Devious, deceitful, mean people they are. They have pretty much ruined the US of America and they are the vast minority! Where is a good minimum wage bill? Why do they fight Healthcare for all? Why do they want Drug testing for food stamps? Why do they want religious charter schools or vouchers programs? Why are they so anti-immigrant? Why do you give so much welfare to corporations but don't means test them? Why do they hate America so much? Could it be they really wanted the British to win the war of 1812?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
Well, lately they went from Palin/Cheney2015 to Putin/Palin2015, to Netanyahu/Putin2015.
howhot2
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 18, 2015
@gkam;
Well, lately they went from Palin/Cheney2015 to Putin/Palin2015, to Netanyahu/Putin2015.

I see what you mean.
MR166
3 / 5 (4) Mar 18, 2015
gkam and nothot you are too ignorant and politically naive to be free. And at the rate that the US is going you soon won't be.

God Bless America, we really need it.
howhot2
3.4 / 5 (5) Mar 18, 2015
Material Resources RM 166 says (@MR166)
gkam and nothot you are too ignorant and politically naive to be free. And at the rate that the US is going you soon won't be.

God Bless America, we really need it.

God bless your mother too. She needs it. I bet she sold the family car for gas money! And have a kid like you. Wow. Did she ask you what the number was for 911 growing up?
Geez, after reading your comment, all I can say is God Help America!

MR166
3 / 5 (2) Mar 19, 2015
"God bless your mother too. She needs it. "

Exactly Hot, America is the mother of us all.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
"gkam and nothot you are too ignorant and politically naive to be free."
------------------------------------------

Well, you don't get to make the rules, do you?
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2015
"Well, you don't get to make the rules, do you?"

Nope, but others do and if you are too ignorant to protect what has been given to you by the tremendous sacrifices of your forefathers it will be taken from you and lost forever.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
"Nope, but others do and if you are too ignorant to protect what has been given to you by the tremendous sacrifices of your forefathers it will be taken from you and lost forever."
---------------------------------

Oh, stop it. I am a Vietnam Vet.

I earned my right to an opinion. Did you?
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2015
Gkam the problem is that you are confusing 16+++ years of indoctrination with an actual education. If you cannot see how poorly things have progressed under Bush AND OBAMA you have been blinded by your ideology.
antialias_physorg
1 / 5 (2) Mar 19, 2015
Oh, stop it. I am a Vietnam Vet.

I earned my right to an opinion. Did you?

I usually agree with what you say, but I don't think that acquiescing to killing on demand is a good argument for being allowed to have an opinion.

Everyone can have an opinion. The merit of which is (or should be) solely how well it's based on facts or not. Otherwise we're dealing with a "argument from authority" fallacy.
MR166
3 / 5 (2) Mar 19, 2015
Do you see that the Republicans are Coke and the Democrats are Pepsi? There is no real difference. There is a big PR difference but they are still all controlled by the same puppeteers. That is why nothing really improves or substantially changes. This is a text book case of divide and conquer.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
Oh, I see, . . . you understand my life and experiences better than I do after 70 years of life. Is that it?

No, I did not get 16++ years of propaganda. I learned in the war how to separate propaganda from reality. You should have gone.
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2015
Gkam if you doubt your indoctrination I suggest that you actually research who was responsible for the civil rights legislation of the 60s. If your answer was the Democrats and President Johnson, you have been indoctrinated.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
"Otherwise we're dealing with a "argument from authority" fallacy."
-------------------------------------

How about an "Argument from Experience"?
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Mar 19, 2015
166, I was around then in 1964, and know the segregationists were still in the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. We liberal War Babies (we preceded the Boomers), chased them out in 1964, and worked with the moderate Republicans to enact the Voting Rights Act, which drove all the racists and haters to the Republican Party as part of Nixon's Southern Strategy.

I was in Mississippi in 1965, when segregation was still a fact. Don't try to tell me I have been indoctrinated.
MR166
4 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2015
"Oh, I see, . . . you understand my life and experiences better than I do after 70 years of life. Is that it?"

Gkam it looks like you and I are about the same age. I am really surprised that you cannot see how the political system of this country has deteriorated into chaos since Eisenhower and Kennedy. Basically both parties main objective now is to get reelected, the country be dammed.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
Oh, I see that, but have hope we can turn it around. And lately, we have been doing so, but will continue to have setbacks as the established powers find ways to control the new conditions and capture the new wealth.
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2015
"Oh, I see that, but have hope we can turn it around. And lately, we have been doing so, but will continue to have setbacks as the established powers find ways to control the new conditions and capture the new wealth."

Gkam is it the republican conservatives,democratic liberals or both that are the "the established powers find ways to control the new conditions and capture the new wealth."

Your answer is crucial in determining your level of indoctrination.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
Neither. They are the folks who tell the Bush Crime Family what to do.

MR166
3 / 5 (2) Mar 19, 2015
I really though that there was hope for you but I am wrong.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
You should have had my experiences. Then, you would have my opinions.

I learned from the Gulf of Tonkin to look behind the scenes, and since we collected raw intelligence, I had the chance to do so. It led to this volunteer for the war to realize we were just killing people in their own country so we could pick the next crook to be in the Presidential Palace.

One day, I stood up and asked why we were doing it, calling us Nazis. It was unappreciated, since we were at the very height of the war.
antialias_physorg
2.5 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2015
How about an "Argument from Experience"?

That's certainly something that can be used as an argument. But a blanket "I fought in war X" isn't the same. Just sayin'

That wars are never fought for the good of the people - on any side - isn't news. (Not even the US involvement in WWII was that. Not by a long shot).
Soldiers have always been abused as the thugs of the powerful. The only real difference between a mafia killer and a soldier is a badge (and a 'get out of jail free' card).
gkam
3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
"The only real difference between a mafia killer and a soldier is a badge (and a 'get out of jail free' card)."
---------------------------------------------------

Ridiculous nonsense!

Maybe if you had served, you would know.

And everybody's experience is different. The folk I served next to for years did not have my experiences, and I did not have theirs. It's a big world out there.
MR166
3 / 5 (2) Mar 19, 2015
So let's look at that. Vietnam was started with just a few advisers under Eisenhower, escalated a good bit under Kennedy, really escalated under Johnson and hyper escalated and ended under Nixon.

Who is to blame for this war? Who called you Nazis and who did not appreciate your hardship and service to your country?
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
It was started by John Foster Dulles in 1956, when he reneged on our promise we made in 1954 for free elections,after the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu.

I called us Nazis. I could not take being (a small) part of the killing machine any more.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
166, sometimes it is not a good idea to see what is really going on behind that curtain.
MR166
3 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2015
Gkam you are obviously an educated and intelligent person. Why is it so hard for both of us to come up with a viable common solution to the obvious terminal decay of the US political system and the inevitable usurping of individual freedoms that this country was founded on?
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
Semantics.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2015
Gkam you are obviously an educated and intelligent person
Educated and intelligent persons dont have to resort to making up their own science and to using brainless t shirt slogans in arguments. Intelligent and educated persons know better.

Of course antialias does the same thing and he is apparently somewhat intelligent and educated. I think this is why the term 'idiot savant' was invented.
Big Brother... draft-dodgers screaming "WMD!... Palin/Cheney2015... Bush Crime Family... next crook to be in the Presidential Palace... nazis... killing machine... behind that curtain...
T shirt slogans...
gkam
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 19, 2015
Did you see my prediction?

Did you check out my credentials?

I am trying to debate you face up, but you squiggle out with personal attacks, and the misrepresentation of my comments.

We all see how you really do hate my comments, and apparently have kept track of them, for whatever purpose. Otto, get off the personal hatred, and let's debate the issues.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Mar 19, 2015
Did you see my prediction?
Uh no.
my credentials?
Irrelevant. Define EM smog and explain why EM is in any way harmful.

Explain why your alleged experience makes you qualified to say that it is.

Explain why it is anything but another jingle of sloganeers like yourself.
I am trying to debate you face up, but you squiggle out with personal attacks, and the misrepresentation of my comments
Then explain why microwaves from orbital solar power stations will cause cataracts when I showed you that they wont, according to real experts.
We all see how you really do hate my comments
I HATE BULLSHIT and the artistes who smear it around.
and apparently have kept track of them, for whatever purpose
Theyre hard to forget.
get off the personal hatred, and let's debate the issues
I dont know you and dont care to. I do hate self-centered braggarts though.

Debate? I prove you wrong and you run away. Admit it when you are wrong you coward.
gkam
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 19, 2015
I should have listened to those who warned me about you.

This has nothing to do with what I say, you are just on some kind of obsessive getting-even jihad against me, because I called you out on your filthy mouth and your lack of manners.

I exposed myself to you, as you sniped from your hiding place. You are the coward, otto.

YOU.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
Maybe if you had served, you would know.

I don't doubt that most of those who serve have good intentions. But they are ordered about by politicians. And if you can - with a straight face - say that politicians have good intentions...well...history is chock full of counterexamples (and not a single example to bolster the notion)

Those with good intentions but a lot of naiveté are just fodder to be abused by those with bad intentions (or just selfish ones - which usually is the same) and a bit more brains. Look at any religious organization and the pattern is the same. Lots of dolts who are good people at heart - abused to do evil deeds (to others and to their own children in that case).

Why do you think all this PR about honor and glamour (and spiffy uniforms, and free education and whatnot) is heaped upon a job that at heart is "kill who we order you to"? To entice the dolts to join.
gkam
2.1 / 5 (7) Mar 19, 2015
Another who served nobody but himself?
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Mar 19, 2015
It has some truth that I served myself by enlisting. When I took the exams, I was not afraid of the draft - 1964/65. I had counted on my scholarships to Cal, but my dad refused to sign them, so I had no money and no place to go.

I was lucky to have the opportunities in the service to experience most of what I did, even though it costs me now.

But to babble: "Those with good intentions but a lot of naiveté are just fodder to be abused by those with bad intentions (or just selfish ones - which usually is the same) and a bit more brains." is to display the kind of ignorance cured only by experience.
MR166
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 19, 2015
Anti as much as I would like to see all the armies of the world disbanded, they have been a necessary part of life since the beginning of man. I have nothing but the utmost respect for solders even though I may truly hate their leaders and the decisions that they make.

It is not and cannot be a solders job to determine the justness of a conflict.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (5) Mar 19, 2015
I don't doubt that most of those who serve have good intentions. But they are ordered about by politicians
@AA_P
they are given orders by a SINGLE politician (the president) but they are also sworn to defend the constitution and are liable for their own actions, and they now have the ability to disregard any illegal orders (just maybe not the balls)
we are not robots, and can refuse orders
I've been verbally reprimanded for it, then given an award for the exact same circumstances
Those with good intentions but a lot of naiveté are just fodder to be abused by those with bad intentions (or just selfish ones - which usually is the same) and a bit more brains. Look at any religious organization and the pattern is the same. Lots of dolts who are good people at heart - abused to do evil deeds (to others and to their own children in that case)
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS PART

so you really are mostly correct, just off by small degree's (re: soldiers & orders)
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 19, 2015
I have nothing but the utmost respect for solders even though I may truly hate their leaders and the decisions that they make.

It is not and cannot be a solders job to determine the justness of a conflict.
@Mr166
Thank you (5stars)
believe it or not quite a lot of soldiers/seamen/marines/airmen feel exactly the same way (hating their leaders and the decisions they make)

one good thing about the modern US military is that they actually ARE making the grunt on the ground more responsible and they CAN make decisions about the just-ness of an order that is given
the oath of enlistment even reflects this in it's wording change
and [swear or affirm] to obey the LAWFUL orders of the president...those appointed over me
MY emphasis on lawful

it is also taught in basic and more that you can be held accountable for FOLLOWING orders that are unlawful

as i said above: they now have the ability to disregard any illegal orders (just maybe not the balls)
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Mar 20, 2015
Hey it's the spooky grease monkey tech
This has nothing to do with what I say, you are just on some kind of obsessive getting-even jihad against me, because I called you out on your filthy mouth and your lack of manners
-But it's impolite to post info you make up and it's certainly obscene to try to justify it with unrelated experience (alleged).
It has some truth that I served myself by enlisting. When I took the exams, I was not afraid of the draft - 1964/65. I had counted on my scholarships to Cal, but my dad refused to sign them
His dad. Oh_my_god.
so I had no money and no place to go
Snore. ImeImeImeIme. This is ALL you're here to do - talk about yourself isn't it? How_Pathetic.

Call your dad and ask him if he knows why calling EM radiation 'smog' makes it a bad thing. Ask him how his son could possibly have the nerve to insist that fallout causes lung cancer.

I bet he could answer those questions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Mar 20, 2015
Oh sorry we all know that fallout causes lung cancer and we don't have to work at nuke plants filling out validation forms, or at Air Force bases in the capacity of 'technical spooks', to know this.

However gkam insists that fallout is the MAJOR cause of lung cancer, and thinks that this sort of experience gives him the authority to override the American cancer society and the cdc in this respect.

See? Otto makes mistakes and then owns up to them. How refreshing.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 20, 2015
Readers: I have told of my own actual experiences in certain fields, thinking some would ask questions regarding how it happened, what the deciding factors were, the things mature adults do to understand others. Instead, I got Wiki-Warriors, those with no education or experience in the field calling me a "LIAR!".

I identified myself personally, to give them some proof of life and experience, but they use it for personal attack.

Can we get back to the issues? Can we get rid of the screaming foul-mouths?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Mar 21, 2015
I identified myself personally, to give them some proof of life and experience, but they use it for personal attack.

Can we get rid of the screaming foul-mouths?
Can we first get rid of bullshit artists who think that identifying themselves and leading people to some website full of dubious info that any bitter old man with a lot of time to kill could imbellish with all sorts of outrageous bullshit, gives them the right to make up their own facts without being challenged?

They seem to show up from time to time and cause an inordinate amount of trouble. And I'm sure that once these are gone the other will disappear spontaneously.
LIAR!
But you ARE a liar george. You continue to claim to be an engineer despite having admitted that you have no formal education, no degree, and no licence. And you further claim that your experience is a viable substitute for these things, which is not in itself a lie, only an embarrassing display of hubris and ignorance.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 21, 2015
I earned a Master of Science and taught over 30,000 engineers how to think. I may have not been able to save you, however.
SamB
3.4 / 5 (5) Mar 21, 2015
I wonder why everything to do with climate change is labeled 'bad'. It would seem to me that logically with change there would be both good and bad things come from this change so where are the good articles? For instance you would think the opening of the polar route would be good news for shipping and mineral/oil exploration. Another example would be the expansion of the crop areas due to warming northern climates. I see only hundreds of negative news articles. It is almost like someone has an ax to grind.
gkam
1.6 / 5 (7) Mar 21, 2015
Sam, it is because those are the real results of Climate Change, not the balmy nights you envisioned. The warming from the changes puts more heat energy into the oceans, increasing the evaporation rate, and making storms and the general weather more severe, which includes harsher Winters in some places, as others bake.
whisperin_pines
1 / 5 (2) Mar 21, 2015
We will be saved from global warming as we evolve into beings that can handle the climatic changes. Evolution, baby!
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (4) Mar 21, 2015
We will be saved from global warming as we evolve into beings that can handle the climatic changes. Evolution, baby!


AGWites don't believe in evolution if it interferes with their faith.
Bongstar420
1 / 5 (2) Mar 21, 2015
Right ....because Earth's normal climate (ice house conditions) would produce better and more abundant harvests.

LOL
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Mar 21, 2015
The tropical food I have eaten fresh in the tropics is quite tasty.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Mar 22, 2015
I earned a Master of Science and taught over 30,000 engineers how to think. I may have not been able to save you, however.
-And further you claim to have had a position as senior engineer at PG&E. But in researching their job descriptions it looks like all the various positions with that designation require a degree, 8 years of professional experience, and a current PE in the state of CA, none of which you have or have ever had.

What gives george? Perhaps you only worked for a senior engr and just got confused -?

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