On the hunt for dark matter

Aug 22, 2014 by Robyn Mills

New University of Adelaide Future Fellow Dr Martin White is starting a research project that has the potential to redirect the experiments of thousands of physicists around the world who are trying to identify the nature of dark matter.

Dr White is developing new computational (data mining) techniques that will allow him to analyse an extensive range of and astrophysics data from global experiments and test the various models of .

"If you put together everything we know about the Universe, only about 4% is normal matter – the rest is dark matter and dark energy," says Dr White. "Following the discovery of the Higgs Boson two years ago, dark matter remains the biggest problem in fundamental physics.

"Tens of thousands of physicists around the world are working on it. Until we understand the nature of dark matter, we simply can't understand a huge amount of our Universe."

Dr White will be developing a giant software package to take in the massive amounts of data from different experimental sources including from the Large Hadron Collider, in order to test the viability of a wide class of theories.

The results will then help design the next generation of dark matter searches in gamma ray and neutrino astronomy.

"We think dark matter is some kind of new particle that hasn't been identified," says Dr White.

"As far as we know there is a theory of particles that explains dark matter. By putting all of this data together we should be able to work out what that theory is.

"To be able to do that, however, we need very complicated data mining techniques – new ways of analysing the data from the results of many large experiments.

"Some of the theories of dark matter have been tested with a few bits of data. But no-one has taken all the data and attacked all of the ideas to see which ones stand up."

Dr White is one of the University of Adelaide's 11 new Australian Research Council Future Fellows. This project will run over four years. "At the end of the project we aim to have the world's most advanced computer program telling us which theory of dark matter is true," says Dr White

"I hope by then we will also have seen measurements to support the theory – the first indications of dark matter in the Large Hadron Collider or in other experiments."

Explore further: Possible evidence for dark matter particle presented

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SnowballSolarSystem _SSS_
1 / 5 (4) Aug 22, 2014
If we only expend 95% of our effort on WIMP models with their 'cuspy halo problem' (WIMP models can't explain the lack of dark matter in globular clusters and galactic cores), then we've got 5% effort left over for everything else, including, perhaps, even a baryonic globule model that REQUIRES the absence of dark matter in regions of high baryonic density.

Two to 50 solar-mass, invisible halo globules of primordial H2 and He at 10 Kelvins on steeply-inclined halo orbits can become trapped by giant molecular clouds where they gradually become opaque with stellar metallicity to become known as 'Bok globules'. The ultimate fate of trapped globules is direct stellar conversion and erosion by their birth stars to contribute to the giant-molecular spiderweb to catch another generation of pristine globules from the halo.

Halo CDM globules + stellar metallicity = Bok globules.

theon
1 / 5 (1) Aug 23, 2014
This LCDM approach will yield the best LCDM fit and thus fall in the LCDM trap. Also if it incorporates WDM. Progams can't think out of the box.
swordsman
1 / 5 (2) Aug 23, 2014
It has been claimed that 80% of the matter in the universe is hydrogen. However, hydrogen is not dark matter. We know that a vacuum has electromagnetic properties, which makes it a prime consideration for dark matter discovery. Possibly particle to small to detect.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Aug 23, 2014
It has been claimed that 80% of the matter in the universe is hydrogen. However, hydrogen is not dark matter. We know that a vacuum has electromagnetic properties, which makes it a prime consideration for dark matter discovery. Possibly particle to small to detect.

Lot's and lot's of fermionic "quasi-matter" to consider...
mikep608
1.4 / 5 (9) Aug 24, 2014
There is no dark matter, black holes, and dark energy

https://www.youtu...lyiW-xGI

ralph638s
1.8 / 5 (5) Aug 24, 2014
"We think dark matter is some kind of new particle that hasn't been identified," says Dr White.

Wow, a particle that conveys darkness onto other particles. Hey, maybe we could call it the Whiggs Boson...
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Aug 25, 2014
There is no dark matter, black holes, and dark energy
https://www.youtu...lyiW-xGI
@mikep608
and youtube is NOT a reputable source of information that is constrained by the peer review system with a high impact in astrophysics, either.

it can be useful, but unless there is links to empirical evidence from a reputable source with a high impact in astrophysics (which there is NOT), then it is nothing but an infomercial for a pseudoscience, ESPECIALLY if it will not allow reason logical discussion and the ability to post links to refuting evidence in its comment sections!

http://sci-ence.o...-flags2/

no fate
1.6 / 5 (7) Aug 25, 2014
"there is links to empirical evidence from a reputable source with a high impact in astrophysics"

prosecution - "Here we have 2 high quality videos showing different angles of the perpetrator with a gun shooting the victim 4 times in the chest your honor" (fyi a video is actually considered evidence)

Defence - "Objection your honor, this evidence is inadmissable as the videos are not from a reputable source and someone who's opinion we trust did not witness the crime."

Judge - "Objection overruled, it is clear what happened and the source of the video or lack of a witness that the defence deems credible has no bearing on the reality of what we witnessed".

Peer review has degraded into checking the math for errors. But if you have a link to anything that refutes what is proposed in the video...post it.
mikep608
2.1 / 5 (7) Aug 26, 2014
"and youtube is NOT a reputable source of information that is constrained by the peer review system with a high impact in astrophysics, either.

it can be useful, but unless there is links to empirical evidence from a reputable source with a high impact in astrophysics (which there is NOT), then it is nothing but an infomercial for a pseudoscience, ESPECIALLY if it will not allow reason logical discussion and the ability to post links to refuting evidence in its comment sections!

the experiment is far more convincing than ANYTHING that certain brand name scientists have won Nobel Prize for,
As far as the peer review is concerned, they have become a no common sense mess.
https://www.faceb...timeline
no fate
1.5 / 5 (8) Aug 26, 2014
the experiment is far more convincing than ANYTHING that certain brand name scientists have won Nobel Prize for,
As far as the peer review is concerned, they have become a no common sense mess.


Most fail to realize, when you use magnetic fields to create plasma structures there are not mulitple field configurations which produce the same or similar structures. There is only one way to configure the field to produce both a concentration of plasma and a jet at the same time. When the medium is charged particles, the behaviour is always dictated by magnetic interaction...ask any PHD at CERN what effect gravity has on their experiments.

http://www.physic...t=683449

To think space is different is just wrong. I applaud the creativity it takes to attempt to make gravity the driver of structure, then derive equations to "prove" that's how it works..real physics dictates that it can't and doesn't work that way. No matter how creative the math.

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Aug 26, 2014
Objection overruled
@nofate
in court, it matters A GREAT DEAL where the source of the video comes from as well as the proof that it has not been manipulated
especially if the SOURCE has a PROVEN AGENDA

source 1: Stationary Security Camera with a stand alone system and no violated circuitry or servers/recording points
source 2: crack addict with history of manipulating data/video's
which will YOU trust?
also: ALL SOURCES and video's must be compared and vetted.

I will not even open the video UNLESS there is a peer reviewed high impact journal study that references it (or perhaps the AUTHOR of the study references it as a good example).
There are reasons for this: TO ESTABLISH CREDIBILITY one must be either vetted by a neutral source or by constant publications through reputable sources while being proven correct (which is only another vetting process)
mikep608
1 / 5 (7) Aug 26, 2014

Most fail to realize, when you use magnetic fields to create plasma structures there are not mulitple field configurations which produce the same or similar structures. There is only one way to configure the field to produce both a concentration of plasma and a jet at the same time. When the medium is charged particles, the behaviour is always dictated by magnetic interaction...ask any PHD at CERN what effect gravity has on their experiments.
To think space is different is just wrong. I applaud the creativity it takes to attempt to make gravity the driver of structure, then derive equations to "prove" that's how it works..real physics dictates that it can't and doesn't work that way. No matter how creative the math.

if they can find a way to accept the idea of dark matter, dark energy, and black holes, then accepting this shouldnt be a problem, even without yet knowing where the shape of the magnetic field comes from. https://www.faceb...timeline
mikep608
1 / 5 (7) Aug 26, 2014
...ask any PHD at CERN what effect gravity has on their experiments.

Phd?... big deal. CERN is research in very abstract concepts. Any result that comes from it is determined by interpretation. They can't see the subject directly.
no fate
1 / 5 (7) Aug 26, 2014
Stump, what matters to a court of law is that the video can be verified to be authentic and not have been tampered with or altered...and that the images are clear enough to be of use. The source means nothing, nor does any perceived agenda the source could have in relation to the case. The 2 people presenting the evidence in a court of law are the most biased people in the room.

That you won't view a video because it doesn't meet your qualifications for validity is your issue, but to condemn it because it doesn't meet your qualifications when you don't even have a clue as to it's content?

This invalidates any opinion you have regarding it because you can't actually discuss it. Would you place your life in the hands of a guide who had never travelled a perilous route he is supposed to navigate you safely through because he has a great reputation or would you go with the guy who looks like a bum but has walked the route a few times and lived to talk about it?
no fate
1 / 5 (6) Aug 27, 2014
if they can find a way to accept the idea of dark matter, dark energy, and black holes, then accepting this shouldnt be a problem, even without yet knowing where the shape of the magnetic field comes from.


Hang out on this forum for a bit.

Entertaining alternate theories, even ones based on experimental observation and known physics, isn't part of the mainstream credo if said theories contradict an accepted fantasy. Whether it's someone with a degree or a wanna be, they will adhere to their dieties you mentioned above and will require evidence which is irrefuteable in order to change the group think mentality.

"I will not even open the video UNLESS there is a peer reviewed high impact journal study that references it "

Does this sound like someone who wants to learn, question, understand?
No, it sounds like someone who will believe anything as long as a person of supposed authority has stated it, and will defend what is said for that reason.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Aug 27, 2014
but to condemn it because it doesn't meet your qualifications
@nofate
i am condemning it as a source of empirical data. that is it. I cannot condemn the contents without knowing what they are. and I will not watch a youtube link unless there is some links to studies supporting the conclusions
it sounds like someone who will believe anything as long as a person of supposed authority has stated it
I KNEW you would call this "appeal to authority" because of THIS link: http://phys.org/n...firstCmt

You want to prove a point, but you use a distraction/redirect called youtube link
Internet trolls know who their experts are. There are thousands of professors scattered across academia, so it isn't surprising that a few contrarians can be found
basically, what you are saying, is that you have an EXPERT who made a video... but surprisingly enough, there is NO EMPIRICAL DATA from a reputable source proving it... only YOUTUBE
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Aug 27, 2014
what matters to a court of law is that the video can be verified to be authentic and not have been tampered with or altered...and that the images are clear enough to be of use
@nofate
and THIS RIGHT HERE is why I refuse your LINK to youtube or video's as EMPIRICAL DATA!
there is NO WAY TO VERIFY that the video is authentic or has empirical data within it... UNLESS THERE IS A REFERENCE TO STUDIES CONTAINING EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE WHICH VALIDATE THE CLAIMS IN THE VIDEO.

and I am not going to sift through video code and however long it is to do a point by point analysis, because it is time consuming and irrelevant to me. it is YOUR ARGUMENT, not mine... and if there was proof that the argument is VALID, there would be studies supporting the conclusions, right?
It would be my responsibility to prove the authenticity of the video if I were the presenter, and verify it as the receiver in court. But I would also be able to retain services to do exactly this.
can't here...
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Aug 27, 2014
This invalidates any opinion you have regarding it because you can't actually discuss it
@nofate
it WOULD invalidate if I were trying to argue the CONTENTS of the video, but I am NOT arguing the contents, I am arguing the source AS WELL AS SUPPORTING EVIDENCE AFFIRMING OR PROVING THE CONTENTS, of which there is NONE
Would you place your life in the hands of a guide
Apples and oranges. one skilled professional without experience or a bum WITH experience is NOT the same thing as accepting a video at face value.

you ASSUME the video is correct... but WHY?
WHERE is the supporting evidence that makes YOU think it is legit? THIS IS THE EVIDENCE I WANT TO SEE FIRST... and THEN I will consider watching the video, but ONLY if I can VALIDATE the supporting evidence FIRST.

this is NOT about me not wanting to LEARN, it is about ME NOT WANTING TO WASTE TIME WITH PSEUDOSCIENCE (LIKE EU, DAW, jk-pheromones, etc).

Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Aug 27, 2014
it sounds like someone who will believe anything as long as a person of supposed authority has stated it, and will defend what is said for that reason
@nofate
no.. it is all about the SCIENCE
if I would believe ANYTHING as long as a supposed person of authority published it, I would ALSO believe in EU, wouldn't I?
and I don't
WHY?
THE SCIENCE

the REASON that I want Empirical evidence from a reputable peer reviewed source is to eliminate the PSEUDOSCIENCE.
when you ASK for this level of authenticity, most pseudoscience posters (or trolls, or contrarians, etc) will argue about "argument from authority" or the "religion of science" or many other fringe arguments used by those who cannot prove something.

I want to LEARN
but I don't want to waste time with BS
learn CORRECTLY FIRST, you can worry about fringe BS later (a failing of certain published authors like reg)

if ya can't give me the science, ya can't prove anything
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Aug 27, 2014
prosecution - "Here we have 2 high quality videos showing different angles of the perpetrator with a gun shooting the victim 4 times in the chest your honor" (fyi a video is actually considered evidence)
It was shooped. I can tell from some of the pixels. Hey stump should I be screaming this?
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Aug 27, 2014
prosecution - "Here we have 2 high quality videos showing different angles of the perpetrator with a gun shooting the victim 4 times in the chest your honor" (fyi a video is actually considered evidence)
It was shooped. I can tell from some of the pixels. Hey stump should I be screaming this?

if you want

i like to use big letters for the eu folk

helps them read
NOM
4 / 5 (4) Aug 27, 2014
You need to use small words as well
no fate
1 / 5 (5) Aug 27, 2014
Stumpstar- This is a contradictory statement "i am condemning it as a source of empirical data. that is it. I cannot condemn the contents". If you do not know the contents then you aren't in a position to judge whether the data is empirical.

"there is NO WAY TO VERIFY that the video is authentic or has empirical data within it..." - ya cause watching it won't yield this information...will it?

"what you are saying, is that you have an EXPERT who made a video" - Um, no, I am saying that the videos do a better job at describing real physics, based on my experience with the same media, than mainstream theories based on math.

"you ASSUME the video is correct... but WHY?" - I understand and have worked with the same media, you can't "fake" plasma behaviour...thus any math or theory contrary to what actually happens is pseudoscience...regardless of who is pushing it.

"I want to LEARN" - Only if you like what your learning and who presents it to you, you've made that clear.


Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Aug 27, 2014


If you do not know the contents then you aren't in a position to judge whether the data is empirical
@nofa
if it is NOT LINKED through a reputable peer reviewed site with external links to a peer reviewed source of information (which there were none) then I can dismiss THE LINK
just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is true
I am saying that the videos do a better job at describing real physics
for YOU this may be true. it is not for me
you can't "fake" plasma behaviour
you can fake a video
https://www.youtu...startrek , https://www.youtu...OdxhbGM4
Only if you like what your learning and who presents it to you, you've made that clear
no... only when the presenter can PROVE that what they are teaching is correct and can prove it... BIG DIFFERENCE

you dont train firefighters with a supersoaker and a raincoat then tell them to SCALE UP.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Aug 27, 2014
cause watching it won't yield this information
@nofa
well... YOU watched it and you are not showing me any empirical data from the video, and no links from the video supporting your side of the argument...
if YOU can't do it and you are dedicated to the video as well as the information within it, then how will I be able to?
thus any math or theory contrary to what actually happens is pseudoscience...regardless of who is pushing it
which is why eu keeps being debunked... not only from the observation standpoint but from the prediction standpoint.

You don't like the fact that I am demanding empirical evidence from a peer reviewed reputabls source with an impact in the topic because there IS NONE SUPPORTING your conjecture... arguing over a stupid youtube video is just an attempt to redirect the argument from THAT SIMPLE POINT.

YA GOT NOTHING PROVING YOUR POV

arguing the merits of a video without PROOF is like arguing the legitimacy of a FAITH
no fate
1 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2014
"YOU watched it and you are not showing me any empirical data from the video" - Wow Stump, you want me to prove to you the validity of something you refuse to view, when this is the first step in any logical discussion of the topic...are you 12?

"YA GOT NOTHING PROVING YOUR POV" - Just the universe ...must be too big for you to see, maybe hop back behind the eyepiece and give the retired army grunt thing a rest.

"the legitimacy of a FAITH" - Look in the mirror, I am not the one rejecting something because I am biased against it's source, yet making definitive statements about it's validity.

You debate from a position of stature that you don't actually have, hence YOUR repeating appeals to authority, but it is your chosen authority and you refuse to acknowledge any other.

I learned how full of shit your authority is, at one time I trusted it as you do.

You and the other flat earthers keep to yourselves, Ira needs company. Our perspectives will never be on the same wavelength.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
Ira needs company.


Don't worry about ol Ira Cher, the company I work for treats me just fine. Maybe I get the BIG promotion next month. I mean I hope I do. I'll let you know about that if it happens. But the Captain-Skippy can't help me with that I don't think.

What kind of company you work with Skippy? You get paid BIG money like the Ira-Skippy does? Maybe you should be worrying about what kind of company you need.
no fate
1 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2014
But, for the record: After viewing Lapoints first video I began checking possible citations of previous work in the field of magnetics, photonics and plasma physics which would support or discount what is shown (maybe it's just my anal rententive nature but I figured I had better confirm that what he was saying was possible before I accepted his theory), YOUR peer reviewed papers numbered over 20 before I stopped (wasn't even into the second video yet and it's not my job to do this, although I did archive them). So if you really want to do that dance, watch the videos, dispute something that is said, and you can have your links if they are needed. Considering he backs up the observed plasma flow with field mapping of which his technique is demonstrated in the video and I have personally verified, I would welcome an alternate plausible explanation for the analogue of structure he was able to produce.

In short Qstump, put up or shut up...or go hide behind your self annointed stature.
no fate
2.3 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
Ira needs company.


Don't worry about ol Ira Cher, the company I work for treats me just fine. Maybe I get the BIG promotion next month. I mean I hope I do. I'll let you know about that if it happens. But the Captain-Skippy can't help me with that I don't think.

What kind of company you work with Skippy? You get paid BIG money like the Ira-Skippy does? Maybe you should be worrying about what kind of company you need.


I will match tax statements with you anytime corncob. I won't even include side work...just my paid position.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2014
I would welcome an alternate plausible explanation for the analogue of structure he was able to produce.


It was explained to Lapoint himself that what he "discovered" was the magnetic field of a Bennett Pinch, the morphology is attainable w/o the use of his bowl magnets. Sort of flies in the face of his beliefs of preexisting magnetic fields so he refused to see the obvious.
http://en.wikiped...physics)

It is why the hourglass shape is a rather ubiquitous one.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
Ira needs company.


Don't worry about ol Ira Cher, the company I work for treats me just fine. Maybe I get the BIG promotion next month. I mean I hope I do. I'll let you know about that if it happens. But the Captain-Skippy can't help me with that I don't think.

What kind of company you work with Skippy? You get paid BIG money like the Ira-Skippy does? Maybe you should be worrying about what kind of company you need.


I will match tax statements with you anytime corncob. I won't even include side work...just my paid position.


So how you make your living Cher? What work you do? That is what I was asking. I told everybody what I do, so all I'm asking is why you think ol Ira needs a new company to work for? You said that and it makes me want to know why you think your company is better than mine.
no fate
1 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
I would welcome an alternate plausible explanation for the analogue of structure he was able to produce.


It was explained to Lapoint himself that what he "discovered" was the magnetic field of a Bennett Pinch, the morphology is attainable w/o the use of his bowl magnets. Sort of flies in the face of his beliefs of preexisting magnetic fields so he refused to see the obvious.
http://en.wikiped...physics)

It is why the hourglass shape is a rather ubiquitous one.


Read the first line of your link...you are the EU's captain Qstump.

Ira, when I said you needed "company", I meant other heads in the sand beside so you wouldn't be lonely, nothing to do with your pullem pushem boats or sweet sorgum farming or your equatorial vacations to Madrid...comprende cher?
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (2) Aug 28, 2014
Ira, when I said you needed "company", I meant other heads in the sand beside so you wouldn't be lonely,


Okayeei apology accepted. But I am not lonely. There is 11 of us work on this boat.

nothing to do with your pullem pushem boats


Then what you talking about then? That's what I do, I don't pretend to be the scientist-Skippy like everybody else here. It's honest work and I like it me.

or sweet sorgum farming


You mix me up with some other somebody. I am not the farmer, and I have never been the farmer.

or your equatorial vacations to Madrid...comprende cher?


Madrid in Spain? I never did go there so you still got me mixed up with the other somebody. I have been to Hamburg once for two weeks. That is in Germany not so near to Spain. But that three years ago last time I got a move up in my company. The work company not the sand company I mean.

So Skippy you are not going to tell ol Ira what kind of work you do?
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
you want me to prove to you the validity of something you refuse to view
@nofa
well, you claim the video is valid, therefore there should be valid physics behind it. send me some links to reputable sites with peer reviewed studies supporting the physics of your argument and then we can talk about THAT... skip the video, because I will NOT watch it
Look in the mirror, I am not the one rejecting something because I am biased against it's source, yet making definitive statements about it's validity
you do realize that now I am going to ask if you are stupid and illiterate?
I am NOT arguing about the material IN the video, only the SOURCE. and YOUTUBE is not a valid peer reviewed empirical source with high impact in physics (unless you are 12)
You debate from a position of stature that you don't actually have
Nope. I am trying to get YOU to present EVIDENCE based upon a rigorous peer reviewed scientific method which has been verified
and YOUTUBE is NOT IT

try a study!
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
hence YOUR repeating appeals to authority, but it is your chosen authority and you refuse to acknowledge any other
@nofate
wrong again. I am flexible... I will accept a PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL WITH A HIGH IMPACT IN the topic at hand, it is who refuses to accept this and present a valid argument. Just because you can link a video doesn't mean it is valid (as shown above)
YOU have a valid physics argument, then LINK THE STUDY THAT SHOWS YOUR ARGUMENT
I learned how full of shit your authority is
appeal to global conspiracy is not going to prove anything other than your continuing fallacious argument as well as lack of ability to provide empirical proof of argument
Our perspectives will never be on the same wavelength
ABSOLUTELY TRUE.
I require PROOF, you only need FAITH in something

this is the crux of the whole argument
I WANT PROOF
you only need vague assumptions or something that SOUNDS science-y
(called PSEUDOSCIENCE)

GIVE ME PROOF and I will listen
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
Read the first line of your link...you are the EU's captain Qstump.


OK, let's read together...

"A pinch is the compression of an electrically conducting filament by magnetic forces."

See that prerequisite "electrically conducting filament"? Without the "electrically conducting filament" (electricity) there are no magnetic forces to do any compressing. There are no claims that magnetism isn't part and parcel to the process, but without moving electric charges (electricity) there is no magnetism. This is a well established fact you prefer to overlook.
no fate
1 / 5 (1) Aug 28, 2014
" I will accept a PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL WITH A HIGH IMPACT IN the topic at hand"

"well, you claim the video is valid, therefore there should be valid physics behind it. send me some links to reputable sites with peer reviewed studies supporting the physics of your argument and then we can talk about THAT... skip the video, because I will NOT watch it"

"I am NOT arguing about the material IN the video, only the SOURCE. and YOUTUBE is not a valid peer reviewed empirical source with high impact in physics"

So it is hide behind self annointed stature.

If you haven't seen the video how do you know any material I link to you supports what is demonstrated in it? Is it possible for you to wrap your head around why this sequence of events for debate is assinine?

"I don't believe the sky is blue because I heard the guy who told me it was is color blind."
"Well did you look at the sky?"
"No I refuse to until someone who is not color blind tells me it's blue."

um...ok.

no fate
3 / 5 (2) Aug 28, 2014
Read the first line of your link...you are the EU's captain Qstump.


OK, let's read together...

"A pinch is the compression of an electrically conducting filament by magnetic forces."

See that prerequisite "electrically conducting filament"? Without the "electrically conducting filament" (electricity) there are no magnetic forces to do any compressing. There are no claims that magnetism isn't part and parcel to the process, but without moving electric charges (electricity) there is no magnetism. This is a well established fact you prefer to overlook.


So link where it says the electricity flowing into the pinch creates the field that produces the pinch. Should be simple enough if you are correct.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (2) Aug 28, 2014
@ no-Skippy. Pardon for me interrupting the science discussion you having with the Captain-Skippy but I am still curious what work you do for a living. Not exactly who you work for non, just what stuffs you do on a normal day?

I'm just glad all the electricity I work with is mostly flowing in the wires, if everything is going right, but I am sure you and the Captain-Skippy will figure out the electricity in the video show.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
hide behind self annointed stature
@nofate
still no evidence huh?
this aint gonna go ANYWHERE until you can give empirical proof from a peer reviewed reputable source that is published in a journal with impact in astrophysics
If you haven't seen the video how do you know any material I link to you supports what is demonstrated in it?
I don't, nor do I care
the point originally started back by mikep over youtube. he was making a statement about no black holes/DM/DE... proving THAT with a youtube video/FB link
then you get involved with your arguments about the validity of the evidence in the video

i DON'T CARE if the video shows BIGFOOT giving a lecture... it is irrelevant
if you want to argue the physics, it means presenting evidence, and that evidence should be the best you have
& youtube/fb/blogs/etc are NOT reputable sources for physics info/proof because they are NOT constrained by the scientific method and peer review
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
"No I refuse to until someone who is not color blind tells me it's blue."
um...ok.
@nofate
and again, you totally miss the point
i don't accept ANYONE's WORD on a subject until they've earned my TRUST, like Q-Star, Thermo, Runrig, Maggnus, Pink Elephant, Nom, even Otto (to a certain degree)

you keep thinking a youtube is every bit as faithful to the scientific method as a peer reviewed source, but it is NOT (as I proved with links to sci-fi above)
and THAT is the whole POINT

i don't care if it is Dr. Tyson in the video! UNLESS it links peer reviewed etc etc etc then it is irrelevant and not a source of data for proof... and if it DOES, then link THOSE SOURCES as proof of argument, NOT THE VIDEO
I had a similar argument elsewhere, and the video's were making claims that were NOT SUPPORTED by the published papers.

I want something to do a point by point comparison or that I can read through and verify myself

IT IS THAT SIMPLE
and you can't give it = NO PROOF
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2014
one last comment on the whole shebang:

read up on this a little: http://www.ploson...tion=PDF

article on PO here: http://phys.org/n...firstCmt

THIS IS ONE GOOD REASON why I require the evidence that I do

I am not going to be swayed by some fast talker, and the ONLY way to get them to shut up and prove a point is to make them abide by the same science/method as scientists who must PROVE things to get published

that is it.

in a nutshell

and there is no reason to continue this back and forth because it is leading nowhere

I HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING NOW...
no fate
1 / 5 (1) Aug 28, 2014
You know what Ira, because you asked me so politely I will indulge you. I am part of a team of 46 people who, when presented with a final objective, figure out all aspects of how to acheive it from the equipment and manpower to the cost and time required, if our solution is approved we then direct the project or our portion of the project until completion. My specific function varies with each job and the scope of work spans everything from nuclear reactor dismantling and maintenance to relocating an entire airport. Most of the time I assist in planning the "how" and once the project is underway making sure the "how" happens as budgeted. Today I arranged for the equipment and manpower to do a mag particle analysis on several miles of conduit to ascertain that a flow reversal wouldn't cause ruptures in the conduit wall. The smart peoples on the team calculate the potential stress caused by this and let me know what the tolerance is, I work off that to do what I do.
no fate
1 / 5 (2) Aug 28, 2014
I HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING NOW...

It has been clear all along and you are right as this is going nowhere. You are asking for empirical evidence that proves things don't exist that have no proof they do. They exist on paper in an equation and have no experimental validation. The claim that the detection of photons indicates precisely what is present in space is the interpretation of a group with a predetermined bias as to the method of photon production.

There is no empirical evidence that hydrogen can collapse into a star, just a mass, volume and temperature calculation that says it HAS to happen at certain values. But not falsifiable, and we can't make it happen...let alone watch it do it on it's own. Yet you believe...

Keep your faith, I'll keep mine.
Time will tell.
Uncle Ira
5 / 5 (2) Aug 28, 2014
You know what Ira, because you asked me so politely I will indulge you.


Thanks. If you don't make a lot more money than ol Ira you need to fire your boss. I wouldn't try to do all that for any amount of money. I'm not lazy I just like knowing what probably going happen next. If things are going good for me, then I can tell you exactly what I will probably be doing in a month or six months, over and over again. I work with a good crew so we don't much have any BIG problems very often.

Can you ever have a day off doing all that? I work 28 days then have 14 days off and sometimes only 7 days off if something is needing some maintenance (we got all that on a schedule) or something breaks and needs some work (that don't happen a lot if you stick with the maintenance schedule).

cantdrive85
1.3 / 5 (4) Aug 29, 2014
So link where it says the electricity flowing into the pinch creates the field that produces the pinch. Should be simple enough if you are correct.


Yep, not hard at all. It involves scrolling down to the "references" portion of the Wiki article- pause to wipe brow and gasp for air- and reading.

'Magnetically Self-focusing Streams' William Bennett
http://journals.a...v.45.890

'The International Journal of Fusion Energy' Vol 1 No 1
http://wlym.com/a...IJFE.pdf

More...
http://articles.a...ype=.pdf
First paragraph from above;
"The pinch effect is the self-constriction of a column of deformable conductor which is carrying an electric current. The constricting effect on the column is produced by the magnetic field pressure resulting from this current, or equivalently, by the Lorentz force produced by the current flowing in its own magnetic field."
cantdrive85
1.3 / 5 (3) Aug 29, 2014
So link where it says the electricity flowing into the pinch creates the field that produces the pinch. Should be simple enough if you are correct.


Your question shows you still have a false notion about this phenomena. The flow of charged particles (electricity) causes the fields which induce the pinch effect, without the flow there is no pinch. In other words, electricity doesn't "flow into" a preexisting pinch.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (4) Aug 31, 2014
It should also be noted, the magnetic field of parallel Birkeland currents is by far the longest range attractive force law in nature.

http://electric-c...elds.pdf