Urban heat—not a myth, and worst where it's wet

Jul 09, 2014
Credit: Wikipedia.

A new Yale-led study quantifies for the first time the primary causes of the "urban heat island" (UHI) effect, a common phenomenon that makes the world's urban areas significantly warmer than the surrounding countryside and may increase health risks for city residents.

In an analysis of 65 cities across North America, researchers found that variation in how efficiently release back into the lower atmosphere—through the process of convection—is the dominant factor in the daytime UHI effect. This finding challenges a long-held belief that the phenomenon is driven principally by diminished evaporative cooling through the loss of vegetation.

The effects of impaired "convective efficiency" are particularly acute in wet climates, the researchers say. In cities such as Atlanta, Georgia, and Nashville, Tennessee, this factor alone contributes a 3-degree C rise in average daytime temperatures, according to the study, published July 10 in the journal Nature.

The phenomenon could have profound impacts on human health in cities worldwide as mean global temperatures continue to rise—and as more and more people move into cities—said Xuhui Lee, the Sara Shallenberger Brown Professor of Meteorology at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies (F&ES) and one of the study's authors.

"There is a synergistic relationship between climate conditions and the urban heat island," Lee said. "This relationship suggests that the will exacerbate heat wave stress on human health in wet climates where temperature effects are already compounded by high humidity.

"This is a huge concern from a public health perspective."

For years scientists have recognized the primary causes of the UHI effect. In addition to the changes in convection efficiency and evaporative cooling, these include the tendency of buildings, pavement, and other structures to store more heat than vegetation and soil; heat generated by human-built industrial systems; and changes to the albedo of the Earth's surface. (Albedo refers to the proportion of sunlight or radiation reflected by the surface of the planet. Light-colored parking lots, for instance, reflect more sunlight back into space than darker surfaces.)

Using satellite data of land surface temperatures and vegetation cover from cities in the United States and Canada, researchers calculated the mean temperature differentials between urban centers and their rural surroundings during both daytime and nighttime hours. They also used climate modeling to produce a more complex range of variables—from air density to aerodynamic resistance—which were then used to quantify the roles of each of the primary drivers of UHI (radiation, convection, evaporation, heat storage, and human-generated heat).

Their results reaffirmed the consensus view that, regardless of the local climate, the release of heat stored in human-built structures is the dominant contributor to UHI during the nighttime.

But during the daytime, researchers found, convection is the dominant factor—particularly in "wetter" cities of the southeastern United States. In those places, the smooth surfaces of buildings and other human-made features are far less conducive to heat diffusion than the densely vegetated areas that surround them. Overall, in wetter climates urbanization reduces convection efficiency by 58 percent.

"The 'rougher' surfaces of the vegetation triggers turbulence, and turbulence removes heat from the surface to the atmosphere," said Lei Zhao, a doctoral student at F&ES and lead author of the study. "But where there is a smoother surface, there is less convection and the heat will be trapped in the surface."

Convection plays a key role in drier cities, too—albeit with far different consequences. In those settings—including in urban areas of the U.S. Southwest where surrounding vegetation is typically shorter and scrubbier—the rural areas are less effective at dissipating heat. As a result, the urban landscapes are actually 20 percent more efficient in removing heat than their rural surroundings, triggering a 1.5-degree C cooling within the cities.

Explore further: Future heat waves pose risk for population of Greater London

More information: "Strong contributions of local background climate to urban heat island," dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature13462

add to favorites email to friend print save as pdf

Related Stories

Plants help lower temperatures

Feb 19, 2013

(Phys.org)—As Melbourne swelters through another heat wave, scientists are using thermal imaging to work out how plants can be used to reduce the severe temperatures in our cities.

Sydney's urban areas to be hit hardest by global warming

Jul 08, 2013

Green spaces, trees and bodies of water are must-have design features for future development in Sydney's suburbs after researchers found that by 2050 global warming combined with Sydney's urban heat island ...

Study links urbanization and future heat-related mortality

May 30, 2014

Phoenix stands at a parched crossroads. Global scale climate change is forecast to bring hotter summers and more extreme heat to the Valley, but regional urbanization also will impact temperatures experienced by residents.

Recommended for you

UN sends team to clean up Bangladesh oil spill

16 hours ago

The United Nations said Thursday it has sent a team of international experts to Bangladesh to help clean up the world's largest mangrove forest, more than a week after it was hit by a huge oil spill.

How will climate change transform agriculture?

16 hours ago

Climate change impacts will require major but very uncertain transformations of global agriculture systems by mid-century, according to new research from the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis.

Report: Radiation leak at nuclear dump was small

16 hours ago

A final report by independent researchers shows the radiation leak from the federal government's underground nuclear waste repository in southern New Mexico was small and localized.

Confucian thought and China's environmental dilemmas

20 hours ago

Conventional wisdom holds that China - the world's most populous country - is an inveterate polluter, that it puts economic goals above conservation in every instance. So China's recent moves toward an apparent ...

User comments : 143

Adjust slider to filter visible comments by rank

Display comments: newest first

supamark23
3.9 / 5 (22) Jul 09, 2014
Where's all the rabid AGW deniers? I figured they'd eat this up due to the headline (though they of course wouldn't bother to read the article).

On an unrelated note, interesting that Phoenix is probably cooler than the surrounding desert and the ATL is literally HotLanta.
antigoracle
1.7 / 5 (23) Jul 09, 2014
Please explain how Phoenix would be cooler than the surrounding desert?
Scottingham
4 / 5 (21) Jul 09, 2014
read the last paragraph antigoracle
supamark23
4.3 / 5 (24) Jul 09, 2014
Please explain how Phoenix would be cooler than the surrounding desert?


Called it (not reading article before commenting) - you win the dumbfcuk of the day award antigoracle!
antigoracle
1.7 / 5 (24) Jul 09, 2014
Yes, I read it.
But can you explain to me why?
supamark23
4.3 / 5 (22) Jul 09, 2014
Yes, I read it.
But can you explain to me why?


It's right in the article, "Convection plays a key role in drier cities, too—albeit with far different consequences. In those settings—including in urban areas of the U.S. Southwest where surrounding vegetation is typically shorter and scrubbier—the rural areas are less effective at dissipating heat. As a result, the urban landscapes are actually 20 percent more efficient in removing heat than their rural surroundings, triggering a 1.5-degree C cooling within the cities." tl/dr - convection + texture/surface area. Idiot.
antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (20) Jul 09, 2014
Let me refer you to the following:
http://www.int-re...p021.pdf
Dr_toad
Jul 09, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Vietvet
3.7 / 5 (18) Jul 09, 2014
What's your point? The link supports supamark23's position very well.


The point is his stupidity.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (17) Jul 09, 2014
Let me refer you to the following:
http://www.int-re...p021.pdf
anti-g
from YOUR link
rier areas have the highest cooling efficiency
and Supamark23 says
the urban landscapes are actually 20 percent more efficient in removing heat
so your reference actually directly supports Supamark's claim as well as the article above.
Likely you saw this
, but efficiencies do not increase much with wet fractions higher than 20%.
and thought it disproves Supamark, but this is essentially what the article AND supamark, is saying above.
Thanks for that study.

you are not scoring high on reading or comprehension today

antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (21) Jul 09, 2014
Wow.
The study I provided clearly shows Phoenix hotter than it's surroundings.
supamark23
3.8 / 5 (17) Jul 09, 2014
Wow.
The study I provided clearly shows Phoenix hotter than it's surroundings.


apparently not, dumbass.
Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (16) Jul 09, 2014
Wow.
The study I provided clearly shows Phoenix hotter than it's surroundings.
@anti-g
and I quoted directly from your study
also remember that the study was only for two days in summer
We examined the urban energy balance for 2 summer days in 2005 to analyze the daytime cooling-water use tradeoff and the timing of sensible heat reversal at night
and that the article is making a reference to longer periods of time

The study also calls out a few limitations of its data collection
We also acknowledge that we only use one weather station that is assumed to be representative of the study area. The weather station is located near a park and thus its measurements are influenced by a greener neighborhood. By using the same input air temperatures for all sites, we neglect the feedback of the heat fluxes on atmospheric conditions.
PLUS were talking about temp vs cooling efficiency

IOW - the study supports Supamark and the article if you read and comprehend its contents

antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (21) Jul 09, 2014
OMG.
Are you morons for real.
Can you see those temperature plots in fig 5, showing the Phoenix core hotter than the surroundings.
supamark23
4.1 / 5 (17) Jul 09, 2014
OMG.
Are you morons for real.
Can you see those temperature plots in fig 5, showing the Phoenix core hotter than the surroundings.


Give it up dude, around here your name is sh!t. Also, you completely miss the point (again).
antigoracle
1.4 / 5 (18) Jul 09, 2014
That's because you got sh!t for brains.
You still think Phoenix is cooler than the surrounding desert.
The Alchemist
2.1 / 5 (9) Jul 09, 2014
The article is good except for the obvious effect that drowns the article's: More heat is released BY burning fossil fuels, A/C, industry here as well. Buildings and asphalt are pale cousins.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (14) Jul 09, 2014
PHX is warmer because it is wetter. It sits in a river valley and with hundreds of people and farms irrigating.
Driving in to PHX from Tucson with the windows down, before the monsoons, one can feel the humidity rise as one enters the Salt River Valley.
Tucson limits water usage for lawns.
Stand outside at night in Tucson on a clear, dry night and you feel the heat radiating away from you and from neighboring buildings.
PHX and Tucson do mitigate the heat by painting flat roofs with white, rubberized paint.
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (13) Jul 09, 2014
"Convection plays a key role in drier cities, too—albeit with far different consequences. In those settings—including in urban areas of the U.S. Southwest where surrounding vegetation is typically shorter and scrubbier"

Looking out over the desert SW of Tucson there is much convection in the form of dust devils.
Fly over any desert in the summer and about 10,000 feet in the afternoon you will get a very rough ride due to convection.

thermodynamics
4.1 / 5 (13) Jul 09, 2014
The article is good except for the obvious effect that drowns the article's: More heat is released BY burning fossil fuels, A/C, industry here as well. Buildings and asphalt are pale cousins.


Alche: Don't miss out on submitting your model that proves AGW is wrong. This is your chance.

http://dialogueso...nge.html

You should be a shoe-in with your flawless zero-D model. You claim it falsifies AGW so that is all you need to collect the $30K. I'm rooting for you. Get it submitted. Don't delay. Let us know how it goes and don't forget my tip for letting you know about the contest!!!
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (15) Jul 09, 2014
OMG.
Are you morons for real.
Can you see those temperature plots in fig 5, showing the Phoenix core hotter than the surroundings.
@anti-g
OMG
you are a moron FOR REAL
can't you see that those temperature plots in FIGURE 5 IS ALL PHOENIX and there is NO surrounding desert (as in the surrounding desert per your posts)??
Fig. 5. (a) Land use in the study area and ASTER images (resolution = 90 m) for (b) July 6, 2005, 10:20 h and (c) August 22,2005, 22:20 h.O1 AZMET weather station; O2 downtown Phoenix; O3 Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport
So you dont have "all that surrounding area" plotted, nor even "surrounding desert".

reading and comprehension is DEFINITELY not your strong suit!

and you call other people
morons
and
sh!t for brains

methinks you are a far better representative of your invective's than most anyone else here!
You still think Phoenix is cooler
at least he can READ what is in front of him
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (14) Jul 09, 2014
The article is good except for the obvious effect that drowns the article's: More heat is released BY burning fossil fuels, A/C, industry here as well. Buildings and asphalt are pale cousins.
@The Alchemist
well, Thermodynamics beat me to the punch, but I will add to it

there was a great cooperative model being done to which you bailed on... you also refused to see the reality of the science being done.
that is YOUR choice.
Now you have the ability to PROVE to the world that you are correct:
http://dialogueso...nge.html

you are over 18, and all you need to do now is prove, via the scientific method, that man-made global climate change is not occurring

If you do, you get $30,000 and bragging rights, and I will accept your results
If you don't (or don't even try) then it only proves that you are on the wrong track and you should re-evaluate your motivations.

your choice
I'll be watching
Captain Stumpy
4.1 / 5 (13) Jul 09, 2014
OMG.
Are you morons for real.
Can you see those temperature plots in fig 5, showing the Phoenix core hotter than the surroundings.
@anti-g
please also note that fig.5 is three pic's, representing THE EXACT SAME AREA over different times and two days
three maps of the SAME AREA
the SAME THING

FROM YOUR STUDY
This study concentrates on a square area covering
approximately 51 census tracts in and around down-
town Phoenix

Fig. 5a−c illustrates general characteristics of land use and day and night ASTER surface temperatures. Land use characteristics were mapped from Maricopa Association of Governments (MAG) 2009 land use data. Three golf courses and a large cemetery highlight the coolest areas both day and night. During daytime these locales are some 22°C cooler than commercial and downtown urban surfaces, and have the highest NDVI (Normalized Difference Vegetation Index) values.
[sic]

perhaps you should invest in glasses and comprehension assistance? interpreter?

The Alchemist
1.8 / 5 (16) Jul 09, 2014
It was a PoS model copied from Dec 2012, that despite exaggerating a multiply-compounded effect, still failed by 2-3 orders of magnitude. But that the four of you agreed with without a single objection, why?...
@Forum
Caliban, Magnnus, Captain Stumpy and Thermodynamics are either the same person, or a cache of mutual brown-nosers. Caliban/Magnnus are easy to recognize they're simply offensive and ignorant. Thermo claims to be a plasma engineer, yet isn't familiar with the phenomenology, and the Captain answered a question with thermo's account here: http://phys.org/n...ans.html on june 11. The back-pedaling after that is notable. They compromised themselves many ways here: http://phys.org/n...nia.html
Look prior to June 1.
The Alchemist
1.7 / 5 (16) Jul 09, 2014
The Alchemist's Model is very simple:
The release of heat does not prominently affect temperature, it primarily effects ice and heat stored released by the water cycle. QED. We've seen this demonstrated, glacial/polar melting, current changes, etc..
The run-off has climate, or at least predictable macroweather effects. It's obvious if you think about it.

The order of effect is pretty simple as well:
Sun (.6% variations in solar energy cause dramatic climate changes)
Atmospheric mixing (energy needed to bring atmosphere from -40C to abient.)
Evaporation (10-25% effect of warming the atm)
Greenhouse effect of Water, negligible compared to effects above and yet...
Greenhouse of CO2, honorable mention, water is 30,000 times more plentiful and 40x more effective as a GHG.

Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (16) Jul 09, 2014
the Captain answered a question with thermo's account here
@alkie
and again you post stupidity and a lie. So, you can't use intelligence or logic so you resort to stupidity? I've NEVER answered from another account. I have ONLY one. You don't believe me? goto: http://www.sciforums.com
look me up: Truck Captain Stumpy
NEITHER LINK shows where I am any other person that Truck Captain Stumpy. Unless you have some IP proof, the only thing you have is: two people you don't like tore apart your argument and made you look stupid.
You are getting paranoid and acting like an idiot... the only way to solve this is here: http://dialogueso...nge.html

or http://www.sciforums.com/member.php?279155-Truck-Captain-Stumpy
send me an e-mail
then you can verify that we are separate people
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (11) Jul 09, 2014
The Alchemist's Model is very simple:
The release of heat does not prominently affect temperature, it primarily effects ice and heat stored released by the water cycle. QED. We've seen this demonstrated, glacial/polar melting, current changes, etc..
@alkie
I see verkle 5starred you when it is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about... verkle is your sock puppet!
WOW!
I should have caught that already... at least we all know NOW!
(watch him try to deny it, or verkle chime in and deny it)

THE ONLY WAY your model is going to prove itself to ANYONE is to prove it here: http://dialogueso...nge.html

prove, via the scientific method, that man-made global climate change is not occurring

IF you are able, and IF you are correct
perhaps THEN you can brag here and someone will believe you
until then, Verkle AKA Alkie ...
thermodynamics
4.3 / 5 (11) Jul 09, 2014
Alche says:
It was a PoS model copied from Dec 2012, that despite exaggerating a multiply-compounded effect, still failed by 2-3 orders of magnitude.


Alche, please let us know what was copied and where to find it. I think you just couldn't follow what was going on. Please point me at what was copied.
Dr_toad
Jul 09, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
thermodynamics
4.3 / 5 (11) Jul 09, 2014
Alche said:
the Captain answered a question with thermo's account here: http://phys.org/n...ans.html on june 11.


You goofball. That is just not even close to true. Please don't insult Captain Stumpy by confusing him with me.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
Alche said:
the Captain answered a question with thermo's account here: http://phys.org/n...ans.html on june 11.


You goofball. That is just not even close to true. Please don't insult Captain Stumpy by confusing him with me.
@Thermodynamics
actually, that would be more insulting to you. I also think that is what he is going for...

I am not an engineer... I was only a firefighter and soldier.

and I used to think he had a capable mind...

He needs to produce PROOF...
and while he is at it... produce proof he is not verkle too!

thermodynamics
4.3 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
TCS said:
I was only a firefighter and soldier.


And why would you not think that was plenty. I was Navy, and I am pleased to know people like you and VietVet who proudly served our country. It seems to me that a lot less deniers served our country. Is that just my perception?

And then there is anarchist Rygg2 who just hates the country and future generations.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
And why would you not think that was plenty
@thermo
i got blowed up... forced out near retirement
I was Navy, and I am pleased to know people like you and VietVet who proudly served our country. It seems to me that a lot less deniers served our country. Is that just my perception?
Thank you. actually, it has been noted by more than just you, ...It appears this has a lot to do with maturity as well as intelligence and the ability to be coherent and logical
given that they also grasp at pseudoscience like a fox at chickens in a hen-house, then it also shows their inability to recognize reality or make informed decisions (mental incapacity or some defect that needs medication or moderation/supervision)

Another point: they are without personal courage and honor. They only support their convictions under anonymity and protected by the internet. They fear reality and being found out IRL

bad judgement, fear, lack of social and reasoning skills... and stupid
what a combination
antigoracle
1.6 / 5 (13) Jul 10, 2014
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (14) Jul 10, 2014
https://www.youtu...GY8zbzc8
@anti-g
boring propaganda for weak minded idiots who are illiterate and cant comprehend basic science, little girl.
you don't believe in AGW?
PROVE IT WRONG
http://dialogueso...nge.html

you have ZERO evidence
you can only bring conjecture to the table
no evidence
that is why you will not enter the challenge
you can't prove squat

you TRIED....
YOU got PROVEN WRONG by YOUR OWN LINK!!
You didn't even READ your OWN LINK!

My assessment of you was SPOT ON!
PS3
2.7 / 5 (7) Jul 10, 2014
People actually got paid to say Urban heat is not a myth? You need not to go farther than your countryside paved driveway to know why.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (13) Jul 10, 2014
Rygg2 who just hates the country

Sure.
So why am I the only one pointing out the socialists policies of AGWites and why are the 'patriots' here defending the 'liberals' socialist policies?
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
Hey captainstunty, when my proof is accepted, would you stop braying like a donkey?
rockwolf1000
4.6 / 5 (10) Jul 10, 2014
Rygg2 who just hates the country

Sure.
So why am I the only one pointing out the socialists policies of AGWites and why are the 'patriots' here defending the 'liberals' socialist policies?


Cuz you're the only only who is so incredibly delusional and stupid.

A few others are quite dumb as well but you stand out and rise to never before seen levels of paranoia and foolishness.

Why not climb the stairs, get out of your mom's basement and check out the world? It could change your life.

You might want some sunglasses though. After 30 - 40 years cooped up in a dark basement it might take your eyes a while to adjust.

ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
Like the rest, rocky won't defend socialism and attacks those opposed to socialism.
Like the rest, he must support socialism.
antigoracle
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 10, 2014
Why not climb the stairs, get out of your mom's basement and check out the world? It could change your life.

You might want some sunglasses though. After 30 - 40 years cooped up in a dark basement it might take your eyes a while to adjust.


Spoken from experience, no doubt.
One more disappointment for mom to add to her list; letting you escape.
thermodynamics
4.7 / 5 (12) Jul 10, 2014
Like the rest, rocky won't defend socialism and attacks those opposed to socialism.
Like the rest, he must support socialism.


We are only socialists in your mind. I spent time in our Military defending this country. Did you?

Why would we defend socialism if we don't support it?

You are not against socialism, you are against government. That makes you an anarchist and I do not agree with your politics. As far as I can see you are a raving lunatic who sees conspiracies around every corner. You can stop expecting me to agree with any of your raving. Brand me a socialist if you want, but anyone reading these threads can see through your thin veneer of anti-socialism to the core of anti-government anarchism.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 10, 2014
Why would we defend socialism if we don't support it?

Good question.
Why so many in the military support socialism?
I suspect they like being told what to do and being taken care of.

What's wrong with a govt that is LIMITED to protecting private property? A govt LIMITED by a Constitution?
AGWites don't want a limited govt. They want the govt to control the lives of others as AGWites think it should be.
Anyone who is/was in the military swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. A Constitution that LIMITS the power of the state.
Did you mean what you said? 'Liberals' don't.
TegiriNenashi
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 10, 2014
Did they dig this article from 1990s? "Synergy" is so passe!
thermodynamics
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 10, 2014
Why would we defend socialism if we don't support it?

Good question.
Why so many in the military support socialism?
I suspect they like being told what to do and being taken care of.

What's wrong with a govt that is LIMITED to protecting private property? A govt LIMITED by a Constitution?
AGWites don't want a limited govt. They want the govt to control the lives of others as AGWites think it should be.
Anyone who is/was in the military swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. A Constitution that LIMITS the power of the state.
Did you mean what you said? 'Liberals' don't.


Really? That is the best you can do? The military is socialistic?

It is absolutely clear you are an anarchist who does not care for this country and does not care about anyone other than yourself.

Clearly, you have never even thought about what you can do for this country and it is refreshing for you to just spit it out like this.
thermodynamics
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 10, 2014
Hey captainstunty, when my proof is accepted, would you stop braying like a donkey?


I don't know about TCS, but I would raise my glass to you and stop my "AGW rant."

Please let us know when you win the $30K so I can join the crowd in singing your praise.

Until then, I will continue to support the physics of AGW.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 10, 2014
Really? That is the best you can do? The military is socialistic?

It is. It's NOT democracy. The state controls your life and property.
The medical care promised by the state for the military, VA hospitals, are killing veterans. You support this socialism?

This is what typically happens when I confront closet socialists with the concept of limited govt.
I am accused of supporting anarchy. Which is not a bad idea compared to socialism, but I will settled for returning to following the Constitutional limits on power.
So, t, you were lying when you swore to support and defend the Constitution?
thermodynamics
4.6 / 5 (10) Jul 10, 2014
Rygg2 said:
So, t, you were lying when you swore to support and defend the Constitution?


I swore to support and defend the constitution of the US, not your interpretation of it. Luckily, there are very few people in the US who do support your view. Just your fellow anarchists (all of whom would never serve in the Military - just like you).

You think the Military is a socialist organization, AGW is a vast conspiracy, and anyone who does not support your view of private property is a socialist.

Just rest assured that the vast AGW conspiracy (of which I and my socialist ex-military friends are all charter members) is going to take your money first (we have a list). :-)

I notice you have not won the contest for falsifying AGW yet. Hurry up before you miss your chance to make the $30K so we can take it away when we take over the world with the vast AGW conspiracy.
Vietvet
4.6 / 5 (11) Jul 10, 2014
Really? That is the best you can do? The military is socialistic?

It is. It's NOT democracy. The state controls your life and property.
The medical care promised by the state for the military, VA hospitals, are killing veterans. You support this socialism?

This is what typically happens when I confront closet socialists with the concept of limited govt.
I am accused of supporting anarchy. Which is not a bad idea compared to socialism, but I will settled for returning to following the Constitutional limits on power.
So, t, you were lying when you swore to support and defend the Constitution?


A common theme in your rants is that the only role of government is the protection of private property. We can add ignorance of the Constitution and history to your ignorance of science.
howhot2
4.6 / 5 (11) Jul 10, 2014
@antigore gave us an expensive propaganda post against global warming, so here is my answer back URL/pdf document. Read it you fool and know when your being snookered.

http://www.esrl.n...xide.pdf

howhot2
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 10, 2014
Really? That is the best you can do? The military is socialistic?

It is. It's NOT democracy. The state controls your life and property.
The medical care promised by the state for the military, VA hospitals, are killing veterans. You support this socialism?

This is what typically happens when I confront closet socialists with the concept of limited govt.
I am accused of supporting anarchy. Which is not a bad idea compared to socialism, but I will settled for returning to following the Constitutional limits on power.
So, t, you were lying when you swore to support and defend the Constitution?

A closet socialist? Accusing you of supporting anarchy? Don't get me wrong, but have you taken your meds? Maybe you should see someone about paranoid delusions. Your very smart R2, and I like you for some reason, you make me think, but your out there guy.

howhot2
4.2 / 5 (5) Jul 10, 2014
CO2 man, it is like a a large comet strike and takes about the same time globally as CO2 from man made sources.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
not your interpretation of it.

It's my interpretation.
It's the interpretation of those who wrote the Constitution.

Yes, the military IS a socialist organization. You have limited rights. The organization 'owns' you. One key difference is that now it's a voluntary organization and you can quit. The only successful socialist organizations are those who are 100% volunteers.

"Although they support a government-provided social safety net, two-thirds of Millennials agree that "government is usually inefficient and wasteful" and they are highly skeptical toward government with regards to privacy and nanny-state regulations about e-cigarettes, soda sizes, and the like."
http://time.com/2...olitics/

A closet socialist? Accusing you of supporting anarchy?

I see the water is getting very hot. Frogs like thermo think the govt water is just fine.
Socialism must be objectively defined and seen for the tyranny that it is.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
A common theme in your rants is that the only role of government is the protection of private property.


What's wrong with that?

Why do the socialists here: physorg,vietvet, thermo, hottie, ....want to use state power to control the lives of others?
What gives you the right to tell others how to live?
A recent comment was made about people who leave their children to die in a hot car. The comment was that the state should license parents. Only the state can authorize children. How sick and twisted is that?
That is just one example of the socialist disease. The state must control everything. Only the state can fix it.
If people are too stupid to listen to the brilliant Michael Mann and Jim Hansen then the state must take control and force the stupid people to comply with the 'experts'.
This happened with eugenics about 100 years ago and millions were murdered by the state and continue to be murdered at abortion clinics today.

Correction from above: "It's NOT my...."
Vietvet
4.1 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
@ryggy

Your contempt for the Constitution staggering.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
@ryggy

Your contempt for the Constitution staggering.

Which part?
I especially like Article 5 and the 9th and 10th amendments.
thermodynamics
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
Rygg2: You need to tighten down that tin-foil hat and take more meds. You are really having a bad day. Your anarchist rant is boring because it is so predictable.

1) Let me ask you if you have no respect for the Military (since you think it is a socialist organization)?

2) Do you believe the only role for law enforcement is to protect a person's property rights?

I suggest upping your meds.
kochevnik
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
This happened with eugenics about 100 years ago and millions were murdered by the state and continue to be murdered at abortion clinics today.
Golly! How did you survive that murder spree, ryggie? Seems you slipped through the cracks
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
no respect for the Military

Why don't you think I respect the military?
They serve the legitimate function of protecting property rights.
They must be organized as they are to be effective. That organization is socialist in nature and can be effective IFF all are volunteers. (Vietnam is a example of what happens with a draft and the misuse of the military.) Socialism falls apart when individuals protest. This is also why military deserters should be treated harshly.
What role, other than arresting those who violate property rights, do you see for law enforcement?
runrig
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
What gives you the right to tell others how to live?


You have obviously not noticed - but there are other people in the world besides you. It is for this reason that governments have the right to tell people how to live. They are the voice of the "people" and as such have to lay down the means by which society (a collection of people not an ideology) discourse with each other. No man is an island.
It is just simple common sense ... and as such way beyond you.
Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 11, 2014
Hey captain, when my proof is accepted
@anti-g
counting chickens before they hatch?
given your proclivity towards jackass's, it is likely the braying you hear is your own voice, or your girlfriend -bestiality is illegal you know... better be careful

you get that proof, and (like Thermo said) I would raise my glass to you and stop my "AGW rant."
Why so many in the military support socialism?
Ryg-tard
they dont! the specific oath of service, which is part of the contractual obligation, holds the signer under contract to support and defend the constitution against any and all aggressors, foreign or domestic
I suspect they like being told what to do and being taken care of
do not confuse respect, honor, duty and courage with your personal cowardice and skewed perceptions about the military. The service-member has a lot more authority now that you think, and can ignore ANY illegal order-and is also required to report illegal orders or their attempted institution
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
The state controls your life and property
Ryg-tard
no. the MIL controls the property THEY ISSUE to you. Your life is in YOUR own hands, really, as the objective of a soldier is NOT to die for his country, but to let the other guy die for HIS country (See Patton)
medical care promised by the state for the military
is only for retired soldiers who still have to pay Tri-Care (insurance) and to soldiers who are injured IN THE LINE OF DUTY or injured BECAUSE of duty, which is ALSO required of CIVILIAN COMPANIES in the united states (See Sara Title X as well as various CFR's including 1910.120)
I am accused of supporting anarchy
because you are anti-gov't and you demonstrate it every time you post
Which is not a bad idea compared to socialism
until you meet someone stronger than you who wants to just take everything you own... or just wants you dead
settled for returning to following the Constitutional limits on power
then you should be talking to your congrs. reps
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
They serve the legitimate function of protecting property rights
@ryg-tard
NOPE
per the Constitution we are not technically allowed to operate in the US unless we are under Martial Law. The objective of the military is to provide a fighting force against other nations willing to invade, attack or wage war against us. The charter of the MIL since the civil war is to protect and defend the Constitution, not for use on US soil in a law enforcement capacity (UNLESS in a specifically designated Law Enforcement job federally supported and mandated, like NCIS, or A/AF-CID)
POLICE are in the US for protecting private property rights
That organization is socialist in nature
no, it is Military in nature. like Law Enforcement or the Fire Department (which is a para-military operation)
there is a chain of command; it must be followed in order for a mission to be successful. everything else is support for the mission, and falls under the UCMJ which follows the Cnst.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
Vietnam is a example of what happens with a draft and the misuse of the military
@ryg-tard
so what was WWI and WWII? social pic-nics with Europe? better read up on history. they ALSO had the DRAFT as well as all the same problems that Vietnam had
Socialism falls apart when individuals protest
only in HUGE numbers and IF they survive retaliation (see social unrest in Russia-Ukraine-Hungary-Siberia, etc, 1950-1990)
What role, other than arresting those who violate property rights, do you see for law enforcement?
the role that you wrongly suppose the military does in the continental US and US soil
A sheriff has more authority than you think, and can choose to ignore an unconstitutional law (just like a service-member)
You should schedule some time with a JAG lawyer and learn a little something about the limitations of the military
or enlist and learn about reality (which will also require you to talk to JAG and learn about legal in the military)

you're an idiot!
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
I especially like Article 5
@ryg-tard
which part?
you DO know that the supreme court ruled on the 5th stating now its not a right but privledge

IOW: you do NOT have the 5th amendment right to silence and protection from self incrimination unless specifically invoked!
it was specified by the court to be a privileged, NOT a right.
happened this year, in fact.
you should look it up

http://communitie...-can-be/

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
Read Article 5.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
It is for this reason that governments have the right to tell people how to live.

Why?
In UK the state has the right to kill you when when the NHS runs out money.
From each ...to each.
SOCIALISM!
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
The only legitimate law and the govt that administers that law is one that does not plunder and prevents others from plundering.
There are only three choices:
1)some plunder many
2)many plunder the few
3)no one plunders
Why do so many choose 1 or 2?
thermodynamics
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 11, 2014
It is for this reason that governments have the right to tell people how to live.

Why?
In UK the state has the right to kill you when when the NHS runs out money.
From each ...to each.
SOCIALISM!


Rygg2: You really are a sick puppy. Please seek help. You could be a danger to yourself and others (and it is the others I would worry about).
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
"NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday."
http://www.dailym...ear.html
Thermo sanctions death panels?
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
"The womb to tomb welfare state, the ultimate goal of Socialists here and around the globe, is an impossibility. There simply is not enough money to do this long-term, especially with shrinking populations and the negative impact on economies that socialist policies usually produce. When that occurs cuts in services must be made, and those who are cut are almost always the most innocent and vulnerable among us. It is no accident, as the Marxists used to say, that most Socialists are enamored of abortion and euthanasia. In their Brave New World there will be no superstitious nonsense about life being sacred.
"It is all about power, and if the innocent must die in order for the welfare state to live, that is a small price to pay. - "
See more at: http://the-americ...V1f.dpuf-]http://the-americ...1f.dpuf-[/url] See more at: http://the-americ...V1f.dpuf
Many other links to death panels here.
Dr_toad
Jul 11, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
thermodynamics
4.3 / 5 (6) Jul 11, 2014
"NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday."
http://www.dailym...ear.html
Thermo sanctions death panels?


Only if they are for you. :-)
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
You can find "many links" to other crackpot shit, too. Your point?

Like major UK newspapers?

Only if they are for you. :-)

A death wish, the typical socialist response. What a surprise.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
A death wish, the typical socialist response. What a surprise.
@rygtard
no
a typical human response
especially to an annoying insignificant POS that irritates someone incessantly with no redeeming value....

much like how humans treat roaches, or mosquito's
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 11, 2014
BTW, from a military spouse:

"The key that's missing from making the American military actual socialism can all be summed up in the fact that it's an all-volunteer situation. If you don't like it, you can leave (after your commitment has ended). Real socialism doesn't really work like that."
http://spousebuzz...-it.html

no
a typical human response

'Liberal' intolerance? How shocking!
Dr_toad
Jul 11, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Vietvet
4.1 / 5 (9) Jul 11, 2014
You can find "many links" to other crackpot shit, too. Your point?


You deserve ten stars.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 11, 2014
BTW, from a military spouse:
@rygg-tard
and your point is?

and it is all volunteer, contractual service, which CAN be interrupted mid-contract and severed depending on the situation, just like any CEO or other contractual job out there
Amy is the managing editor of Military.com's spouse and family blog SpouseBuzz.com. A journalist by trade

Read more: http://spousebuzz...7DhApLHa
SpouseBUZZ.com
can she equal more than42 yrs service AND life in the military?

also... MILITARY is militant, or HIGHLY structured. Which differs from socialism in many ways. again, like law enforcement and the Fire department (which are military style organizations) it is a different situation altogether.

You deserve ten stars.
@vietvet
@Dr. Toad
TWENTY STARS
runrig
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 12, 2014
It is for this reason that governments have the right to tell people how to live.

Why?
In UK the state has the right to kill you when when the NHS runs out money.
From each ...to each.
SOCIALISM!

ryggy:
Your system has the right to kill you via worry from being made bankrupt if you run into health problems. This by not being there in your hour of need. And to boot your system is hugely expensive and (apparently) does not achieve any better outcomes even so.
Right-wing governments here have supported the NHS. It is the choice of the people. Shit happens even to the most well-meaning of people/organisations. What matters is the consensus to keep the NHS and to fund it. It is an enormous beast and cock-ups occur. That's life. It's neither a conspiracy nor socialism. It's a system that is fair/equitable for all and is supported by all. There is NO (serious) talk of privatising health care here.
Que another 50 post rant by ryggy...sigh
Dr_toad
Jul 12, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 12, 2014
Your system has the right to kill you via worry from being made bankrupt if you run into health problems.


So it's better to explicitly have a doctor in a socialist system kill you?

It is the choice of the people.


What other choice do they have?

"Deliberate or reckless behaviour towards patients will become punishable by up to five years in prison and £5,000 fines under the government's amendment to the criminal justice and courts bill."
http://www.thegua...w-change

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 12, 2014
and your point is?

A military spouse who lives in the system agrees that the military is a socialist system.
Sure, it doesn't have ALL the features of socialism.
The part that contradicts socialism is its meritocracy. Members, for the most part, are promoted on merit. But the pay and other rewards are based upon rank in the system, not individual production or worth.
Military members can't publicly criticize their military or civilian leadership; no free speech. And now, even their religious rights are under threat.
For all you veterans, if you hate socialism so, why are so many in the military 'liberal'? Carter was a submariner. McCain is a 'liberal'. And so many in the military vote for 'liberals' who support more govt control (socialism).
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 12, 2014
Shit happens even to the most well-meaning of people/organisations.


You make it sound as if all the bad things are just accidents.

They are consequences of a socialist system. The same problems occur in the socialist VA medical system.
It's no accident and is predictable.
If science is so important to you rummy, how can you support systems that are scientifically proven to fail? The only logical answer is that you don't care that the system fails. All you care about is the power such a system has over the lives of others.
OR, you don't value science.
Dr_toad
Jul 12, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
strangedays
4.1 / 5 (9) Jul 12, 2014
Ryggy
NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients


Runring et al - the problem you appear to face - is trying to have a reasonable conversation - with someone who does not share that goal (perhaps deliberately, or perhaps through ignorance - impossible to tell). As an ex-pat - living in the U.S., and with family in the U.K. - I would have difficulty returning to my home - mostly due to the poor health care system. There are other European countries I would be more willing to consider. I have exceptional health care here in the U.S. - but it sure comes at a price. Every time we need some procedure - take out the check book - and write another $500 check. And that is with excellent health insurance.

I have family that works in the nursing home industry here. Trust me - it is not pretty. Severe under-staffing is the norm. I don't think Ryggy takes the time to really read the arguments made here (cont).
strangedays
4.1 / 5 (9) Jul 12, 2014
But for others who are interested in reasoned conversation - you can research the U.S. nursing home industry - and see that there are severe problems with this model too - http://abcnews.go...id=96416 and dead patients is the outcome on this side of the pond too. Being poor in England is probably much more tolerable than being poor in the U.S. While the quality of care is excellent here - as long as you can afford it - there are certainly major problems too - http://www.cnn.co...room.ep/

On a more cryptic note - seniors here seem very satisfied with their SOCIALIST medicare plan - https://www.ahip....age.aspx

Really interesting - Canadians are far more satisfied with their SOCIALIST plan - http://blogs.chic...tem.html
Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 12, 2014
A military spouse who lives in the system agrees that the military is a socialist system
@ryg-tard
I also know army spouses who feel that the military life is gay, and some who feel that it is aliens running the military. So does that mean that the military is a socialist gay organization run by aliens?
Sure, it doesn't have ALL the features of socialism
then it is not socialist. it has socialist features, MORON. it is like the united states, with SOME features of socialism but considered a representative republic
But the pay and other rewards are based upon rank in the system, not individual production or worth
um... this is the capitalist system, idiot. go to any company/corporation and you will see EXACTLY the same thing. You really think Bill Gates is the most productive member of the Microsoft team?
Military members can't publicly criticize their military or civilian leadership
yes they can. see UCMJ for details
cont'd
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 12, 2014
cont'd to rygtard
And now, even their religious rights are under threat
the UCMJ cannot order restrictions that are unconstitutional
For all you veterans, if you hate socialism so, why are so many in the military 'liberal'?
1-there are three separate subjects here
2- prove that "so many" are liberal. where is the study proving this? or are you making a personal conjecture based upon your delusional beliefs or your delusional fantasy world that you call a social life?
using carter or other high profile people is NOT justification that "there are many". I happen to know more conservative military than anything else, but that is ALSO not important, nor relevant
It's no accident and is predictable
1- most "accidents" aren't
2- most are also predictable
the problem you appear to face - is trying to have a reasonable conversation
@strangedays
sometimes it is useful to those who are here to learn
and to show that not all the posters here are idiots
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 12, 2014
And now, even their religious rights are under threat.
@rygg-tard
so, quick question: where were you before the late 1980's? and why aren't you so indignant that there was NO, and I mean absolutely NO, religions freedom for most native american tribes before Carter wrote a bill and Reagan signed it into law around the mid 1980's?

There were Lakota going to JAIL for believing in their cultural and historical religions and practices.
they were incarcerated for NOT BEING CHRISTIAN

dont' believe it? contact Oceti Wakan http://www.ocetiwakan.org/
https://www.faceb...03128544
and specifically Zintkala Oyate
who has been incarcerated (as well as his father)

there are a lot of things under your own nose that happen that you ignore, but you want to rant about socialism here?

strangedays
4 / 5 (8) Jul 12, 2014
sometimes it is useful to those who are here to learn
and to show that not all the posters here are idiots


Good point Captain - and I appreciate folks like you , runrig, and others for taking the time.

Pop a mole can be very exasperating - so having a number of folks on the comments who are able to be more reasonable - maybe shares the load a little. Watching the rating system gives cause for hope. You guys consistently get 5's - and Ryggy gets 1's. People are paying attention.
Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 12, 2014
and I appreciate folks like you , runrig, and others for taking the time.
@strangedays
you seem to have joined into that same crowd...
you will find a troll that you can argue with less irritable than others and do the same in the future...

have fun
you're doing great so far.

:-)
and thanks for the compliment... but runrig and thermo and those guys are the smart ones!

i just like learning!
strangedays
4.2 / 5 (10) Jul 12, 2014
And now, even their religious rights are under threat.


Why would Ryggy say EVEN the religious right? Does the religious right occupy some special space on the world stage - that they should not be subjected to questioning? I thought religious freedom (including the choice of having no religion) was highly prized here in the U.S. Just as Ryggy wants the right to question science - I want the right to question religion. I would agree that religion is on the defensive - as we move to a more rational, and scientific world. This kind of statistic gives us hope - "A decade ago, more than threequarters
of the world's population identified themselves as religious. Today, less than 60
per cent do. This article is an awesome read - http://currenteve...kAbH2KQo

Another quick thought - wonder if Ryggy means the 'Christian' right - or if Ryggy also includes the 'Islamic' right?
Captain Stumpy
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 12, 2014
Another quick thought - wonder if Ryggy means the 'Christian' right - or if Ryggy also includes the 'Islamic' right?
@strange
not likely.
that would require insight, intelligence and the ability to form coherent thoughts and sentences as well as a general ability to empathize and also the ability to be objective

these are NOT ryg's strong points

interesting article, btw
i wonder what songs those "nones" people sing? :-)
mayb e they sing Losing My Religion by REM?
LOL
runrig
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 12, 2014
You make it sound as if all the bad things are just accidents

No, just that things happen which cannot be avoided.

So it's better to explicitly have a doctor in a socialist system kill you?

The corollary to that is "is it better to have a doctor in any other system kill you" so stupid question .... and the doctor doesn't kill you (on purpose). He/she is trying to cure you - but shit happens. There I said it again.

What other choice do they have?

They have the choice of wanting to change over to an insurance based system - the NHS is not foisted upon them - it is what people what here, sorry to disillusion you on that.
They also still have the choice of purchasing health insurance - just like you my friend. There are private hospitals here you know.

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 13, 2014
"David Tran, CEO of the popular company that manufactures the popular Sriracha hot sauce, fled communist Vietnam in 1978. In 1980, he started his company, Huy Fong, which he named after the freighter that brought him to the U.S. "
"But now Tran tells NPR in an interview that the U.S. is feeling more like the communist government he escaped because of the many government intrusions:"
http://www.tpnn.c...country/
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 13, 2014
Why would Ryggy say EVEN the religious right?


I did NOT say 'the religious right'.

I said RELIGIOUS RIGHTS. Which means the right to worship for those in the military are being infringed upon.

Is sounds like strange does not support the first amendment rights to speech and religion.

doctor doesn't kill you (on purpose).

At NHS, how do you know?
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 13, 2014
prove that "so many" are liberal. where is the study proving this?

Why is anyone who was in the military 'liberal' and support socialists?
A neighbor has has USMC bumper stickers and Obama stickers on his care.
"The Center for Responsive Politics reported last month that self-described military personnel had donated $678,611 to Obama, 85% more than the $398,450 the Romney campaign has collected."
http://swampland....ublican/
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Jul 13, 2014
hen it is not socialist. it has socialist features, MORON. it is like the united states, with SOME features of socialism but considered a representative republic


To paraphrase Forrest Gump, socialism is as socialism does.

Socialists have a long history of misdirection. 100 years ago socialism was called 'progressivism'. FDR called it 'liberalism'.
strangedays
4.3 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2014
I said RELIGIOUS RIGHTS.
Apologies for the misread.

And which religious rights do you feel are being infringed on?

I certainly do support the right to practice religion - and also the right of free speech. I also support my right to not practice religion - and also the separation of church and state.
Dr_toad
Jul 13, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Jul 13, 2014
And which religious rights do you feel are being infringed on?

Feel?
Are.
" President Barack Obama's civilian appointees who lead the Pentagon are confirming that the military will make it a crime–possibly resulting in imprisonment–for those in uniform to share their faith. "
http://www.rightw...s-faith/

"Pentagon May Court Martial Soldiers Who Share Christian Faith"
http://www.breitb...an-Faith
Dr_toad
Jul 13, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Jul 13, 2014
Those are your sources? You're more of a fool than I knew. Have you got Rush Limbaugh's face tattooed on your ass?

http://www.snopes...zing.asp
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2014
"Speaking at a gathering on Capitol Hill during the May 2 National Day of Prayer, Rear Admiral William Lee of the U.S. Coast Guard said he is convinced that there is an increasing effort to shut down expressions of faith throughout the military. "As one general so aptly put it," Lee told his audience, "they expect us to check our religion in at the door — don't bring that here. Leaders like myself are feeling the constraints of rules and regulations and guidance issued by lawyers that put us in a tighter and tighter box regarding our constitutional right to express our religious faith."
http://www.thenew...re-faith
https://www.youtu...tXPJLnJY
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2014
At NHS, how do you know?
@ryg
the same way you don't get taken by scams form con-man: be smart.
I am not saying you need to go to pre-mad courses, but awareness and a little knowledge are all you need to combat someone taking advantage of you
" President Barack Obama's civilian appointees who lead the Pentagon are confirming that the military will make it a crime–possibly resulting in imprisonment–for those in uniform to share their faith.
this is already illegal in the military per the UCMJ
the reason: it is a SEPARATION of CHURCH and STATE
it is WRONG for any superior Officer/NCO to force another into a religion to which they don't want to be in, and it is also illegal for said religions to force unwanted/unasked attention onto persons that do NOT wish it to be shared
THIS is to prevent conflicts in the work place and people like the asst. Fire Chief of RAB who tried to send a soldier to jail for not being an x-tian (I testified against said NCO)
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (7) Jul 13, 2014
the military will make it a crime–possibly resulting in imprisonment–for those in uniform to share their faith
@rygg
the law, per the UCMJ and active for longer than I have been in the military, is designed to keep a person from forcing unwanted attentions onto another, or forcing unwanted religions onto another
for instance: The muslim and jehovah's witness practices of spreading faith are illegal on duty, in uniform or between active duty servicemembers. This assures EVER PERSON their right to their OWN religion without being influenced from others or superior ranking persons.

do not misread anything into that law. It is NOT illegal for a servicemember in civilian attire to go door to door sharing his faith in housing or off base. Nor is it illegal to them to share their faith WHEN ASKED. it only prevents one religion from forcing its views upon anyone else for WHATEVER reason regardless of said religious laws supporting said sharing.

separation of church & state
strangedays
5 / 5 (9) Jul 13, 2014
You see Ryggy - much as it probably galls you - your right to practice your religion - is equal to my right to NOT practice religion. There is an important construct of separation of church and state - and believe it or not - the U.S. military is a STATE organization. Reports of religious proselytizing by military officers have been investigated - and correctly deemed illegal.

See this report - http://www.washin...598.html
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Jul 13, 2014
prevents one religion from forcing its views upon anyone else

Define how anyone in the military forces their view on others?
Homosexuals views are forced upon heterosexuals by the command structure.

The US military is forcing members to observe Ramadan.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (9) Jul 13, 2014
Define how anyone in the military forces their view on others?
@Ryg
I did, but I will again
IF an officer/NCO shows favoritism to certain religions/people who are in same religion, it is forcing a view
a superior rank telling another to go to church, or to specifically go to THEIR religion
a superior rank telling someone that they CANNOT believe in a religion because it is against THEIR religion (this is how I helped incarcerate an NCO who was trying to give AR-15 to a soldier for not being x-tian)
Homosexuals views are forced upon heterosexuals by the command structure
No, they are NOT. this is also illegal per the UCMJ
forcing members to observe Ramadan
no, they don't. HOWEVER, the mil. in a foreign location WILL respect the religious observations of the host country
this is NOT forcing, this is called respect for host nation religious practices

it is the SAME as respecting the German law & holidays while in country

you are being misled by someone
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (8) Jul 13, 2014
Define how anyone in the military forces their view on others?
@cd
also telling someone that they MUST participate in a religion that the soldier does not want to
The US military is forcing members to observe Ramadan
IF a soldier says to the command structure that he does NOT believe in ramadan, nad refuses to participate, then it is ILLEGAL to force said soldier, per the UCMJ, to participate in said organized religious situation. period.
What the military MIGHT do is take those days off, or give the days half work, or some such mark of respect.
The military has ALWAYS been accommodating to host countries and their state religions, or the local religions to which there might be holidays that are celebrated.

again, this is a mark of RESPECT, not forcing anything. and again, the soldiers that do not wish to participate do not have to

ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (9) Jul 13, 2014


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, ...."

"Hamby and other student speakers are merely the "school district's authorized representative." Thus, they argue, the student becomes an agent of the state government, and can only say what the government deems appropriate. Such censorship would not be limited to religious expressions. The school necessarily claims the right to forbid a student from criticizing Barack Obama, or the student expressing support for the Second Amendment, or socialism, or condemning radical Islamic suicide bombers. The school says the student has no right of free speech. "
http://www.breitb...nsorship
A student, forced to attend a govt school has no first amendment rights?
By extension, ALL who receive a govt paycheck loose all Constitutional rights?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (7) Jul 13, 2014
A student, forced to attend a govt school has no first amendment rights?
By extension, ALL who receive a govt paycheck loose all Constitutional rights?
@ryg
personal conjecture without evidence
and NO, a radical/fanatical or ideological web-site dedicated to keeping issues polarised is NOT empirical, nor is it support for an argument.
I would take a CNN/other news report over this any day

I've grown up in the gov't school system. It is far more advanced than public school systems and usually takes a policy of maintaining the standards of the overseas locations or host country (fir instance: In Japan, they start teaching Algebra in the 4th grade)
I've spoken out against the president while in school (in a MUCH more strict time than today) and never suffered
Soldiers are also allowed to speak out against the pres. per the UCMJ.
AGAIN, You really need to read up on that
UCMJ = Uniform Code of Military Justice
Captain Stumpy
4.9 / 5 (8) Jul 13, 2014
California's Brawley Union High School District insists it can forbid Christian students from mentioning their faith in Jesus Christ
@ryg
from your article
we can deduce that this is a CALIFORNIA issue, not fed gov't issue, too

also, the fact that they cannot talk about religion to others is a good thing, to me. I don't want to hear it, and others feel the same

IT IS CALLED THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

the rest is just political crap... TL:DR
Caliban
5 / 5 (6) Jul 13, 2014


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, ...."

"Hamby and other student speakers are merely the "school district's authorized representative." Thus, they argue, the student becomes an agent of the state government, and can only say what the governmen[...]student expressing support for the Second Amendment, or socialism, or condemning radical Islamic suicide bombers. The school says the student has no right of free speech. "
http://www.breitb...nsorship
A student, forced to attend a govt school has no first amendment rights?
By extension, ALL who receive a govt paycheck loose all Constitutional rights?


Hey, suckn'--

This'll prolly give answers to all your questions about religious expression and its rightful place in the US Military:

http://mrff.org/
strangedays
5 / 5 (8) Jul 13, 2014
Define how anyone in the military forces their view on others?


Ryggy did not read my link (of course) - one quote for you to answer your question - "The report came after allegations that officers at the academy promoted evangelical Christian beliefs and were insensitive to cadets who were of a different religion or chose not to practice a faith."

strangedays
5 / 5 (7) Jul 13, 2014
Of course students have first amendment rights - just read your own article - you will see that it is talking about a student making a graduation speech. Of course the school retains the right to pre-approve the graduation speech - that is not a question of first amendment rights - you really have the dunce hat on today Ryggy.

"the District exercises control over the valedictory/salutatory speeches and only permits students to deliver content its administrators have deemed appropriate."
Dr_toad
Jul 13, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (8) Jul 14, 2014
why feed it?
@Dr_Toad
I try to stay away, but he was making seriously grandiose accusations that were blatantly false that most people are not fully aware of. Not a lot of people have 40+ years experience in the military and are willing to share some of the daily minutiae.

The military was good to me for the most part. It is also a good organization for sad cases that are lacking in self esteem like ryg because it makes responsible adults out of them.

His accusations stem from an ignorance and fear of the military organization and his conspiratorial beliefs- I didn't want some future reader to think that there was any truth to them.

mooster75
5 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
I didn't want some future reader to think that there was any truth to them.


You have more respect for his persuasive abilities than I do, I'm afraid.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Jul 14, 2014
the school retains the right to pre-approve the graduation speech

The school thinks it OWNS the student and can force the student to say what the school wants him to say.
we can deduce that this is a CALIFORNIA issue, not fed gov't issue, too

After the 14th amendment, the Bill of Rights apply to the states.

Note how the socialists here are defending the state's violation of liberty. "First they came for .....".
strangedays
5 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
The school thinks it OWNS the student and can force the student to say what the school wants him to say.


The school of course has the right to pre-approve the graduation speech - only you would think that this is a freedom of speech issue. In our world - there is a very high level of freedom of speech. Let me demonstrate that for you. https://www.youtu...8Qu8wLAk

Would you support the school's right to prevent a student from singing this song at a graduation?

Dr_toad
Jul 14, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Jul 14, 2014
"California's Brawley Union High School District insists it can forbid Christian students from mentioning their faith in Jesus Christ, claiming that if they allow a student to speak publicly, then that student is merely an agent of the California state government, and as such forfeits all First Amendment rights. "
http://www.breitb...nsorship
By extension, any student forced to attend a govt school and anyone receiving a govt check would fall into this category and forfeits first amendment rights.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Jul 14, 2014
I have no fear of the military. I was a midshipman for 1.5 years until I decided I didn't like being force to give orders I didn't agree with.
I worked at Hill AFB and worked with many retired military.
And the truth is still there, the military IS a socialist organization. So are monasteries.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
The school thinks it OWNS the student and can force the student to say what the school wants him to say
@ryg
are you an uneducated juvenile down-syndrome baby? NO... the school DOES own the property and the proceedings, which are a PRIVILEGE, not a right. NOWHERE in ANY part of the Constitution does it guarantee the RIGHT to a celebratory event honoring the hard work you've done for graduation! Had you already gotten your education, you would already know this. PERSPECTIVE
even YOU wouldn't hire a speaker to BASH you publicly
You have more respect for his persuasive abilities than I do, I'm afraid
@Mooster
Persuasive? no. not unless he is preaching to the uneducated or the clinically insane :-)
50 feet from the muzzle of a 105
@Dr. Toad
Cool, huh?
Always loved artillery. I was ADA (Air Defense Artillery)
Bradley Gunner... not as impressive as the 105, but more agile...
Brygg-LMFAO you are very correct. especially with a hard nosed NCO like I was
I always got the tards!
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
http://www.breitb...nsorship
@ryg
NOT a legit source. Find a NEWS source and present this in a less polarised POV
I was a midshipman for 1.5 years
IOW - you couldn't hack structured orderly living and life. I find it HARD to believe that you would make the ABOVE statements EVEN THOUGH you've seen service... did you learn NOTHING of the UCMJ? or did you just IGNORE the classes?
I worked at Hill AFB and worked with many retired military
I've patched up many a prostitute as a paramedic too, but that doesn't mean I know what it is like to BE one
And the truth is still there, the military IS a socialist organization
ONLY in YOUR delusional world, because YOU COULD NOT HANDLE BEING FOCUSED AND DISCIPLINED
there is a difference in failures like you and the real military... don't shove YOUR failings off on us

I've met THOUSANDS of your type. YOU couldn't handle it so you bash it
my brother is one. he is also a lifelong failure
LIVE WITH IT
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
I was a midshipman for 1.5 years until I decided I didn't like being force to give orders I didn't agree with.
@Ryg
this is likely NOT true. I don't see the education OR the discipline in your posts proving you had the ABILITY to be a midshipman, sorry
you lack focus, discipline, Honor, Integrity, selflessness, respect and so much more. there is NO WAY I would believe you were Active Duty or even Reserve without a 201 or copy of the DD214
ESPECIALLY given your complete lack of leadership and knowledge of the UCMJ
the more I think about it and see your writings, the more I think you are not capable of being one
I would HAVE to see proof that you were in service
And the truth is still there, the military IS a socialist organization
THIS RIGHT HERE proves that you didn't serve
Dr_toad
Jul 14, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Jul 14, 2014
You think he knows what a DD214 is? If he was in the Navy, I'll bet he knows what an Article 15 is, but by another name...
@Dr. Toad...

lets see if he can get it right
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
I have a DD214, qualified expert on the .45.
It's amazing how upset some get when the truth is stated about the military.

NOT a legit source.

That's how the socialists/AGW control the message. Attack the messengers, demand 'peer' reviewed journals that support their faith,...

Would the NYT be a legit source? The NYT that knowingly published lies about Stalin starving his subject?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
I have a DD214, qualified expert on the .45.
It's amazing how upset some get when the truth is stated about the military
@ryg
a CLAIM is only as accurate as the user. so far, your accuracy regarding military comments is 0%
you've shown NO knowledge of the military in your comments, nor of the workings of the UCMJ, which is taught in BASIC as well as OCS. These observations justify the conclusion that you are LYING- the ONLY other conclusion is that you were discharged for mental problems.
IF you can answer the following, which will reveal information but nothing PERSONAL that will allow us to trace you:
what is in boxes: 2, 4b, 23 and box 24 of your DD-214?

what is the answer to Dr. Toad's question?

What is the form DD-2N, OR DD-2AF, OR DD-2A? (answer all three questions please so that we can validate some military service- you will NOT be able to answer the first question unless you have an ACTUAL DD-214)
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
I could look up the information and regardless of what I say, you won't believe me.
My expert pistol medal is navy blue with two green stripes and a bronze E.
My dog tags list my last name, first name; ssan, USN; blood type; religious affiliation.
You all claim to be in the military. Why should I believe you?

Whether I had a green active duty ID card, or not, how does that change the facts that military organizations are socialistic?
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
How is your gig line, your tuck, and do you have any Irish pennants?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
I could look up the information and regardless of what I say, you won't believe me.
@ryg
YOU are VERY WRONG here... those boxes of info that I asked for will tell me several things, and will also prove that you have a valid DD-214
I could look up the information and regardless of what I say, you won't believe me
which can be bought on line and info can be looked up here: https://en.wikipe...ip_Medal
My dog tags list
not relevant. the dog tag info can also be looked up in TOO many places
You all claim to be in the military. Why should I believe you?
I can provide the SAME info from my 214 that you do, AFTER you do
OR, if you would like to e-mail me, I can share a copy of mine. I have nothing to hide
Whether I had a green active duty ID card, or not
Again, not relevant- you lack BASIC information that ALL recruits are taught, therefore the claim that you were military (in any way/shape/form) cannot be proven until you can answer the ??'s
Dr_toad
Jul 14, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
How is your gig line, your tuck, and do you have any Irish pennants?
@ryg
and anyone who watches NCIS, or most other MILITARY shows can imitate the lingo, so this proves nothing
how does that change the facts that military organizations are socialistic
another comment that is designed to TROLL but is also highly inaccurate, likely due to your inability to comprehend military rank structure as an outsider
You all claim to be in the military. Why should I believe you?
I have provided 100% accurate information that can be verified ON LINE OR WITH THE JAG OFFICE, OR you can talk to a military public affairs officer that can verify the info.
again.... answer the questions! You put your info and I will share MY info.
ALL THREE QUESTIONS
what is in boxes: 2, 4b, 23 and box 24 of your DD-214?

what is the answer to Dr. Toad's question?

What is the form DD-2N, OR DD-2AF, OR DD-2A?
they will validate your claim without extra personal info able to track you

I'M WAITING....
rhsthjnty
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
Ummm...

Sorry to butt in, I've been reading your conversations and find them absolutely entertaining.

Copies of DD-214s can be found online...

http://www.homeof...hell.jpg

And, as a non American, I don't see someone being part of the military as someone better or worse than anybody else. So what's the point of this last bit of conversation?
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
As noted by the replies, it won't matter what I put down from my DD-214, it won't be believed.

How does my DD-214 affect the facts of how the military is structured?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
So what's the point of this last bit of conversation?
@rhsthjnty
to verify his claims and validate the character of the poster
I don't see someone being part of the military as someone better or worse than anybody else
neither do I, really. HOWEVER, if someone is to make claims about the military, and then claim that they were part of it, while those claims are fallacious and filled with inconsistencies as well as blatant lies, then ... do you see where we are going with this?

Ryg made claims that are not only blatantly wrong, but show NO past experience with the military
the questions are designed to validate his claims in a manner that most military people would know usually off the top of their heads (as the information is asked for regularly)
he cannot verify his claims
he usually posts irrelevant or blatantly fallacious claims
just one way of trying to verify the info
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
How does my DD-214 affect the facts of how the military is structured?
@ryg
who said it was being asked for this purpose? only you

YOU'VE MADE CLAIMS that are easily disproved, as well as BLATANT LIES
I want to know if your military claims are just a continuance of said lies, a new set of lies, or a truthful post that can be accepted for what it is

so far, you've not been able to give ANYTHING truthful about the military.
Sorry to butt in
@rhsthjnty
really wish you would not have given him so much info... now he cannot be trusted at all, really.

SORRY RYG... e-mail me and we can swap 214 pics...
rhsthjnty
3.9 / 5 (8) Jul 14, 2014
@Captain_Stumpy

Based on the whole "socialism is evil mantra" and "global warming is a conspiracy coming from the rich and individualistic socialist left" thing, there's a good chance that he watched a movie, got confused and truly believed that he was in the military.

I agree with him though... True or not, whatever he says, you won't believe him.

He discredited himself to most people here a while back.

High five for his vigor though. I wish I had a fifth as much as he does.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
I agree with him though... True or not, whatever he says, you won't believe him
@rhsthjnty
well, I might have... until you posted that link for him to look at.
he still hasn't been able to answer the next two questions though... one posed by Dr. Toad and the other common knowledge among all military, including spouse and dependents or even civilians working with the military, as he claimed.

Dr_toad
Jul 14, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
This explains most responses here:
"In the sixth century BC, the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu identified the world's biggest problem. Individuals viewed themselves as powerless. The burden of impotence made them resent others and fear life, which, in turn, led them to seek power through controlling others. "
"The strength of communism or any oppressive regime rests upon the obedience of individuals."
"Havel argued that individuals have "within themselves the power to remedy their own powerlessness" simply by living the truth."
{The same Havel that opposed AGW}
"Anyone who dissents by living the the truth is a fundamental threat to the state because a lie cannot coexist with what is true."
"That is why speaking out against the state is "suppressed more severely than anything else.""
{And why so many here must intimidate}
http://www.indepe...?id=5018
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
YOU'VE MADE CLAIMS that are easily disproved,

Such as?
In the military, everyone wears a uniform. All are paid by the state. Are provided with state housing and food. Are required to do what the state orders them to do. Are subjected to social experiments without their consent.
Like similar socialist systems, a monastery for example or a Hudderite farm, people can leave and there is no motivation for extreme tyranny.
National socialist systems don't allow anyone to refuse to participate leading to tyranny.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Jul 14, 2014
YOU'VE MADE CLAIMS that are easily disproved

Such as?
how about these
They serve the legitimate function of protecting property rights
[in the military]The state controls your life and property
medical care promised by the state for the military[soldiers pay for it, only injured in the line of duty don't]
That organization is socialist in nature[no, its military-there is a difference]
Military members can't publicly criticize their military or civilian leadership
even their religious rights are under threat
Why is anyone who was in the military 'liberal' and support socialists
The US military is forcing members to observe Ramadan
qualified expert on the .45
how upset some get when the truth is stated about the military
no truth yet
plus you don't know what Navy AR-15 is called, and what a DD2N is (or DD2A, or DD2AF)

so... how old are you ryg? for real... how old?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
YOU'VE MADE CLAIMS that are easily disproved

Such as?
In the military, when you go through Basic or OCS, you are given courses by JAG in your rights, responsibilities and more... these are drilled into you so that the military can say that you were taught and they cannot be held accountable for your personal screw-ups

These things are also easily searchable on databases and thru contact with JAG or other military databases, even the CFR's have references to the military... the only people who WOULD NOT KNOW are those who:
have not been IN the military
are too lazy to look it up
and
are indoctrinated in anti-military propaganda which is served in a manner that helps them feel better about their stupidity and false belief system: much the same way that Communists brain-wash/indoctrinate youths and new people to be against the USGov't and the US Military.

These tactics are taught to military so they can guard against them
I see this in YOU, ryg
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Jul 14, 2014
From the AGW CinC:
"Obama's Pentagon is cutting thousands of officers from the military, citing the demands of sequestration. Those being "laid off" include a number of officers on active duty, with "some receiving pink slips while on the battlefield."

According to Fox News, "Roughly 2,600 captains or other officers have or will be laid off, with more expected."

Defense Department officials say the layoffs are "the result of mandatory spending cuts imposed by sequestration" and are being handled with "a balanced approach that maintains readiness while trying to minimize turbulence within the officer corps."

But retired Major General Robert Scales does not agree. He says, "It puts the soldier, the soldier's family, and the men under his command at risk. Young officers look at each and wonder who is next.""
http://www.breitb...tlefield
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Jul 14, 2014
you don't know what Navy AR-15

Why does the Navy have AR-15s and not the M-16?
I drilled with and M-1.
The Marines I knew loved the M-14.

Dr_toad
Jul 14, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Caliban
5 / 5 (5) Jul 14, 2014
you don't know what Navy AR-15

Why does the Navy have AR-15s and not the M-16?
I drilled with and M-1.
The Marines I knew loved the M-14.


Wait --what were you drilled with?

Whatever it was, I'm sure they didn't have to go far before they hit the the mother lode of willful disunderstanding.

Perhaps this explains the neverending flood of Fool's Gold from the Vault of Irrelevant Inanity that you constantly direct into these comment threads.

Who knew it was an old war injury.

You should check yourself into your nearest VA hospital and get it looked after.

~%*$@&$$# troll.

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Jul 15, 2014
Why does the Navy have AR-15s and not the M-16?
ryg
ROTFLMFAO
this is TOO rich! No... that would be WRONG. The M-16 is the militarized version of the AR-15...
AR-15 in MILITARY-speak: short for Article 15. And you DIDN'T know that (which I find VERY surprising, considering your attitude)

perhaps you heard it as something else?

do you know what that was? EVEN I KNOW what the Navy calls Article 15's!

you HAD to have been Guard/Reserve... and you must be older than dirt, too, given some of the other statements!

Are you, perchance, AKA midshipman Methuselah ?
(Lord have mercy. This dude must be in his eighties. We shouldn't continue to beat him about the head and shoulders for his senility.)
@DR Toad
I am willing to bet serious money that he will not even comprehend WHY we've made these references!

Dr_toad
Jul 15, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) Jul 15, 2014
Why won't CNN or NYT report this?

"Planned Parenthood staffers are using taxpayer money to instruct underage girls in dangerous and violent sex practices — including whipping, bondage and choking, according to a new video released by the anti-abortion group Live Action Tuesday.

The uncensored footage obtained by The Daily Caller shows staffers telling investigators posing as underage girls to experiment with violent sex play in response to generic questions about sex."
http://dailycalle...x-video/

As for Article 15s, I followed the rules.
Dr_toad
Jul 15, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Jul 15, 2014
As for Article 15s, I followed the rules.
@DR TOAD
WE WIN
he doesn't know

no surprise there
The Alchemist
1 / 5 (2) Jul 16, 2014
Of course the water released as a product of combustion serves as a great insulator as well. They put humidity in the title...
mooster75
5 / 5 (3) Jul 18, 2014

What is an Article 15 called in the Navy, liar?

I'm not defending the troll, but to be honest, I served for four years (admittedly several decades ago), and I have no idea what it is you're looking for as an answer. Unless you mean Captain's Mast, but I don't see how that could be it, because anyone other than a complete idiot would know that; it doesn't require any Navy experience, surely.

Oh. Wait a minute...

Please sign in to add a comment. Registration is free, and takes less than a minute. Read more

Click here to reset your password.
Sign in to get notified via email when new comments are made.