Power Japan Plus announces dual carbon battery that charges 20 times faster than current lithium ion batteries

May 16, 2014 by Bob Yirka report

Japanese power company, Power Japan Plus has announced the development of a new type of battery intended for use in automobiles and other applications, the Ryden or dual carbon battery. The company claims the battery charges 20 times faster than current lithium ion batteries, doesn't heat up, so it doesn't require cooling and is cost competitive with other current batteries used in cars and trucks. They believe the battery will be a game-changer, leading to a surge in sales of hybrid and all electric vehicles.

Representatives for Power Japan say the is actually something completely new—it's made of carbon instead of nickel, cobalt or manganese. Not only does that make it cheaper to make but it does away with the thermal change that exists with current batteries that necessitate the installation of cooling systems (and does away with the associated fire hazard in crashes). They add that the carbon they use is new as well—it's an organic compound grown from cotton fibers. That means that when the battery is no longer useful, it can be easily recycled. Due to its structure, it's also able to be fully discharged without damage, which means more power can be used before recharging, slightly increasing distance capabilities. The can also be configured to fit in a standard 18650 cell and the unique design also lends itself to higher than average reliability, with a lifespan of 3,000 charge/discharge cycles.

The company provides a clear example of the faster recharge speed—they claim that a battery the size of the one used in a Nissan Leaf, which currently takes approximately four hours to charge, could be charged in just twelve minutes. As part of the announcement, reps for the company said that Power Japan will only be making the batteries for specialty applications such as medical devices or for use in satellites—they've already built a production facility that they say will be churning out thousands of the new batteries by the end of the year. As for batteries to be used in cars, the company says it will be licensing the technology to other companies who will in turn make the batteries for installation and use in a wide variety of vehicles.

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betterexists
1.9 / 5 (13) May 16, 2014
Wonderful!
War Mongering Nations are Losing Edge to Smaller ones.
Scottingham
5 / 5 (2) May 16, 2014
Even though the battery might be able to be charged in 12 minutes, the power load needed to do that would be enormous.

I heard of one possible approach that uses high-speed flywheels at recharging centers that can regain their speed slowly but dump its energy much faster.
fmfbrestel
4.7 / 5 (3) May 16, 2014
Some of these claims seem a bit too good to be true. Notice that there is no mention of power density. These batteries could still be 10+ years away from actually competing in the marketplace.

Or, maybe they just didn't feel the need to talk about power density. Maybe they will clear it all up in their next press release.
jwilcos
2.2 / 5 (5) May 16, 2014
It all sounds too good to be true. What's the catch? Usually things with wonderful properties have one huge major flaw that make them unusable in practice. Musk will be all over it if there is not a major catch.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (3) May 16, 2014
Even though the battery might be able to be charged in 12 minutes, the power load needed to do that would be enormous.

Think gas stations with the appropriate power infrastructure. 12 minutes would be an acceptable fill-up time.
hemitite
5 / 5 (1) May 16, 2014
fmfbrestel,

Didn't they claim that the battery could have a 300mi range? It most likely has the same energy density as the current Li batteries but can be fully discharged so can use more of its capacity.
hemitite
not rated yet May 16, 2014
The 300 mi claim was made in the video.
jalmy
5 / 5 (2) May 16, 2014
So they are implying similar density to Lion.
Modernmystic
5 / 5 (2) May 16, 2014
Even though the battery might be able to be charged in 12 minutes, the power load needed to do that would be enormous.

Think gas stations with the appropriate power infrastructure. 12 minutes would be an acceptable fill-up time.


LOL, clearly the word "acceptable" is highly subjective in this case.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) May 16, 2014
Even though the battery might be able to be charged in 12 minutes, the power load needed to do that would be enormous.

Think gas stations with the appropriate power infrastructure. 12 minutes would be an acceptable fill-up time.


LOL, clearly the word "acceptable" is highly subjective in this case.

12 mins should be plenty o time to take a leak and get some chips n soda... You wouldn't even have to stand by the pump while it's running...
Modernmystic
5 / 5 (5) May 16, 2014
Even though the battery might be able to be charged in 12 minutes, the power load needed to do that would be enormous.

Think gas stations with the appropriate power infrastructure. 12 minutes would be an acceptable fill-up time.


LOL, clearly the word "acceptable" is highly subjective in this case.

12 mins should be plenty o time to take a leak and get some chips n soda... You wouldn't even have to stand by the pump while it's running...


Well if it got rid of as much carbon as it's potential suggests (ie using only nuclear, wind, solar, etc to charge it), I'd be willing to wait the 12 minutes happily. You'd just change the way you thought about "fueling up", but I clearly move more quickly than you do at the gas station :P

Nik_2213
5 / 5 (1) May 16, 2014
It sounds more tolerant of charging conditions than LiIon. Perhaps this will let smaller battery packs escape the proprietary charging regimes plus thermal sensors that make later replacement difficult, and certainly expensive.

I've had to dump a bunch of rechargeable equipment because their batteries failed. Each has an accessible battery pack, but two of four leads goes to a 'smart' charge regulator. Unless the sensor's charging profile matches the stored envelope, the regulator fails safe and you're holding a piece of junk..

And, d'uh, perhaps this technology will extend Android tablet life beyond 'silly'...
Shabs42
1 / 5 (1) May 16, 2014
Well if it got rid of as much carbon as it's potential suggests (ie using only nuclear, wind, solar, etc to charge it), I'd be willing to wait the 12 minutes happily. You'd just change the way you thought about "fueling up", but I clearly move more quickly than you do at the gas station :P


I can't watch the video, so sorry if this is explained; but would you have the option of not fully charging the battery? If it has a 300 mile range, you could get a 200 mile charge in eight minutes for instance, assuming a steady rate of charging. Three hours of driving is a pretty solid stretch, usually about the time someone in the car needs the bathroom or a snack anyways.
konabikekid
3 / 5 (2) May 17, 2014
They don't have to talk about the power density. If the battery charges 20 times the speed of current Lithium ion batteries without any heat problem then the battery is obviously much more power dense than current Lithium Ion batteries.
Pejico
May 17, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Egleton
not rated yet May 17, 2014
Got to read the article.
Again.
alfie_null
4.7 / 5 (3) May 17, 2014
Wonderful!
War Mongering Nations are Losing Edge to Smaller ones.

Droll.

Here's a challenge. Try to make it through one day - or even one hour, without using any technology derived from the military. For starters, here's a hint: nothing transported by air. And another: no Internet either.
antialias_physorg
not rated yet May 17, 2014
"LOL, clearly the word "acceptable" is highly subjective in this case."

With batteries there's no reason why you can't decouple individual packs while at the station hookups and charge them separately at the same time. 4 hookups - 3 minutes. 12 packs and 12 hookups - 1 minute. 12 hookups can still mean only one cable to handle. It's only limited by how much juice the station can pump in per second.
betterexists
not rated yet May 17, 2014
Make a phone call (not advisable while driving), Watch news on a TV screen there, Go to the Bathroom etc., while it gets charged.
Just Charge it to the Credit Card!
Where is the Need to Charge the Battery? Just Exchange it in a Jiffy for an already charged one on stock there!
Next person will get yours!
betterexists
not rated yet May 17, 2014
3000 discharge cycles before beginning to degrade!
So, Just pay based on the status of your own one that you are discarding there & the new (not necessarily new, but fully charged) one that you pick up there.
Let the Calculators & Robots do the work for you.
You just park your car, Wait a Minute, Pay & Get out of that Station Smiling.
Do you really think that they are Foolish Like That Obokata To Claim Spurious Research as Genuine?
Make a phone call (not advisable while driving), Watch news on a TV screen there, Go to the Bathroom etc., while it gets charged.
Just Charge it to the Credit Card!
Where is the Need to Charge the Battery? Just Exchange it in a Jiffy for an already charged one on stock there!
Next person will get yours!
betterexists
1 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
Ask Arati Prabhakar, Head of DARPA to Comment on your Comment
Wonderful!
War Mongering Nations are Losing Edge to Smaller ones.

Droll.

Here's a challenge. Try to make it through one day - or even one hour, without using any technology derived from the military. For starters, here's a hint: nothing transported by air. And another: no Internet either.

betterexists
not rated yet May 17, 2014
You can watch the Video by clicking on the Youtube Logo at bottom right corner of the screen.
Well if it got rid of as much carbon as it's potential suggests (ie using only nuclear, wind, solar, etc to charge it), I'd be willing to wait the 12 minutes happily. You'd just change the way you thought about "fueling up", but I clearly move more quickly than you do at the gas station :P


I can't watch the video, so sorry if this is explained; but would you have the option of not fully charging the battery? If it has a 300 mile range, you could get a 200 mile charge in eight minutes for instance, assuming a steady rate of charging. Three hours of driving is a pretty solid stretch, usually about the time someone in the car needs the bathroom or a snack anyways.

MR166
4 / 5 (2) May 17, 2014
If this battery works as claimed it is really quite a breakthrough. Removing the threat of fire from the equation should allow manufacturers to improve the performance of many products.
konabikekid
5 / 5 (3) May 17, 2014
Just read the details on their website. They claim 100 mAh/g at 4 volts. That's 400 Whr per liter which is excellent specific energy density. If they have volumetric energy density equally as good and the rest of their claims are true as well we have a winner here.

I tend to agree with what some others are saying here though that battery breakthroughs are being talked about all the time yet none of them ever come to fruition. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they demonstrate on May 21st.
KBK
5 / 5 (3) May 17, 2014
There is usually, in my personal and direct experience, massive amounts of (hidden/unseen by the public) pressure and manipulation of any potential market/industrial commercial disruption technology.

Everything is not sunny and pure, there is some very serious stabbing and destruction going on behind the scenes in almost any situation that involves market disruption via new technology.

The people and groups who control the old technology will do the most underhanded things you can imagine to find ways to control the new technology or to prevent its emergence and adoption onto the world stage.

This is a very real and actual problem that is encountered by any potent invention and innovation situations, every day. It's literal murder out there. It's not paranoia when it's real. Considerable effort is put into making sure the public never perceives this aspect.

One will only see these things, when one invents the new. Then.. it comes for them, out of the darkness.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
battery breakthroughs are being talked about all the time yet none of them ever come to fruition

There's always market forces in the mix when it comes to whether something will be realized or not. Businesses are conservative. Making lithium batteries is big business for any company that has their factories up and running.
They would kill their own cash cows if they changed over to something better. No businessman will do that.
Whydening Gyre
3 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
Well if it got rid of as much carbon as it's potential suggests (ie using only nuclear, wind, solar, etc to charge it), I'd be willing to wait the 12 minutes happily. You'd just change the way you thought about "fueling up", but I clearly move more quickly than you do at the gas station :P

Prob'ly have a smaller gas tank...:-)
I drive a full size van for our art biz and it takes a few mins to put in 25 to 30 gallons. enuff time to clean the windshield, at least.. Our gas stops are around 20 minutes anyway... Wife has to "mark her territory" by buyin' something in the station store.
katesisco
2 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
I am all for these discoveries even if speculative. I would rather not have an entire car industry dependent upon lithium ion just because its development supports intercontinent trade for the raw materials. Why should we go that route again?
research from Japan also shows improvements in gasoline engine (only 20% efficient now) makes it less polluting than electric cars. Lets explore all options rather than all the eggs in one basket again.
Eikka
5 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
Just read the details on their website. They claim 100 mAh/g at 4 volts. That's 400 Whr per liter which is excellent specific energy density. If they have volumetric energy density equally as good and the rest of their claims are true as well we have a winner here.


That's completely wrong. The specific energy density is calculated from the average discharge voltage.

Suppose the discharge curve is linear all the way to zero- that would make the energy density close to 200 Wh/kg.

Not Wh/liter.
konabikekid
not rated yet May 17, 2014
I meant to say watt hours per kilogram.
konabikekid
5 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
By the way, the min voltage is 4 volts. At full charge it is higher than that. For almost all of the charge its higher than 4 volts. When charge gets close to zero the voltage drops from around 4 to 0 very quickly. At least if their chart on their website is true.

I don't know of any LiIon battery where the voltage drops linearly all the way to zero. The performance would drop with it if that we're the case.
EyeNStein
not rated yet May 17, 2014
OR as it charges 20 times as fast there is room to Increase their internal resistance by up-sizing their cells so it doesn't take thousands of them to power a car. The cost, weight and bulk saving of all that surplus encapsulation jacketing and interconnects could make EV's affordable. Especially if they have respectable range and charge overnight at home on cheaper electricity.
IamVal
2 / 5 (1) May 17, 2014
I'm with kbk here...
and I've got a bit of hope for this one that I couldn't have for the rest.

Almost all of the previous 'breakthroughs' were made by schools or smaller businesses. the big businesses just didn't want to look for them... but they did want to own them and bury them so that happened.

this is a company who wants to do all their own manufacturing and license the tech out. If this delivers on it's promises, and the company doesn't sell out, This may be the turning point. also contingent on price certainly.

as for recharging systems..
photovoltaics..
compressed air generators- quick fillup, relative safety, tried and tested tech.
superconducting buffers.
by the time this gets going, the sky is the limit. the solution will likely match the infrastructure decided on. availability of charging stations is a seriously limiting factor for those uninitiated.
as for station storage, flywheels are great, linear hydraulic weight displacement might be just as effective.
kochevnik
5 / 5 (2) May 17, 2014
Wonderful!
War Mongering Nations are Losing Edge to Smaller ones.

Droll.

Here's a challenge. Try to make it through one day - or even one hour, without using any technology derived from the military. For starters, here's a hint: nothing transported by air. And another: no Internet either.

Military yes. War no. Democratic military are supposed to PREVENT war not instigate it at every opportunity with mercenaries and snipers picking off citizens then blaming some target they wish to make unpopular
Eikka
5 / 5 (2) May 18, 2014
By the way, the min voltage is 4 volts. At full charge it is higher than that. For almost all of the charge its higher than 4 volts. When charge gets close to zero the voltage drops from around 4 to 0 very quickly. At least if their chart on their website is true.


You may notice that the mAh graph is not a flat curve either. It denotes the remaining capacity (mAh/g) at different voltages. The chart shows that at 4 Volts the battery actually has almost no charge left in it, and the full charge voltage is a bit over 5 Volts. (this is nice for many electronics that operate at 3.3 V)

Given an average voltage over discharge at 4.75 V and average capacity during discharge at 50-60 mAh/g you get about 260 Wh/kg which is about what you would expect out of a lithium-polymer cell.

One has to remember then that a proper battery containst between 30-50% other support materials, so the practical energy density will be lower.
howhot2
not rated yet May 18, 2014
Clearly a nice break through in battery tech. I applaud their work. I hope to see it in the market in the next couple of years. I just bought a Lowes Lion battery based lawn mower (Kobalt 40Volt 20" walk behind) to do my yard, and to be honest, I'm really impressed by the design of the mower and the strength these batteries have. I can do my whole 1/4 acre lawn in one charge (well technically two. They give you one charger and two batteries).

https://www.youtu...i1_4VCd0

Anyway, with LION getting that good, novel battery technology could transform everything. In this case, just rethinking the chemistry and replacing the cathode and anode with engineered carbon. Li paired with an unknow organic electrolyte and the promise of 3000 cycles. If these batteries are that rugged 3000 discharges and can be just charged up on demand after a winter of abuse totally discharged; It will revolutionize tools. The less we have to pay attention to batteries the better!

Lex Talonis
not rated yet May 19, 2014
What happens if the carbon in the batteries is black?

Eikka
not rated yet May 19, 2014
(this is nice for many electronics that operate at 3.3 V)


More specifically: linear voltage regulators typically operate at 0.7 Volt headroom, and with devices that use small amounts of current such as sensors and small LED lamps etc. this is nice because it allows the battery to run completely dry while still providing the required voltage because you have 3.3 + 0.7 = 4 Volts when the battery is just about empty. Using a linear regulator also simplifies the circuit tremendously, which makes it cheap.

Switching regulators aren't often justified when the current demand is small because running the oscillator often consumes more energy than running the device itself, but with regular lithium batteries you need one because you don't have enough voltage across the entire discharge of the battery cell, so you need to use a DC-DC converter to maintain steady output.

That said, let's still wait and see that it isn't a scam like the Envia battery.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet May 19, 2014
What happens if the carbon in the batteries is black?

Wasn't that in an ACDC song...? (Back in Black..)
betterexists
not rated yet May 19, 2014
What I require are those that do not "rust" and disintegrate into pieces; Many a Gadget are destroyed because of this stupid nature of batteries. Also, Auto mechanics have to clean up everything from time to time...Very Very Disgusting.
krundoloss
5 / 5 (1) May 19, 2014
The people and groups who control the old technology will do the most underhanded things you can imagine to find ways to control the new technology or to prevent its emergence and adoption onto the world stage.


That's why innovation is so stifled here in the USA, I have been putting all my faith in distant countries, the further and less affected by the USA, the better! We need a country like Japan to get this ball rolling, and to NOT GIVE IN to any powerful company or person. Burying technology will end up burying us all.

In the early 20th Century, we were able to make such strides in technology because no one would get in the way. Horse stables didn't try to sabotage the automobile market, they just got out of the way of progress. Large Ship Fleet owners didn't try to sabotage the Airline industry, they got out the way too. The more powerful people that get in the way of Technological progress, the less advancement there will be.

chrisn566
1 / 5 (1) May 19, 2014
I'm guessing Elon Musk is watching this development with bated breath. If it works as advertised,would Tesla be the hidden investor? And what affect would that have on his plans for a Gigafactory.
yhxhit
not rated yet May 23, 2014
I guess it's most likely to be hybrid capacitor: graphite as cathode and active carbon as anode