Climate deal 'won't be perfect': US negotiator

May 22, 2014
Steam rises from cooling towers at a coal power plant near Leeds, in north England, on October 30, 2006

With 19 months to go until the deadline for a new, global pact on climate change, the United States' top negotiator cautioned Thursday against unrealistic expectations, saying the deal "won't be perfect".

"It is important that our expectations be ambitious, and also grounded in reality," special envoy Todd Stern told journalists in Paris, where he met officials of the French government, who will host the 2015 meeting where the agreement must be signed.

"I'm sure it won't be perfect," he added. "This is a difficult negotiation. There's 190-plus countries... it is hard to get agreement from all countries on anything."

Expectations that do not take realpolitik into account "can just lead to disappointment", said the envoy, who has for five years led the US negotiating team in the notoriously belligerent global talks.

The UN is targeting a limit of two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) over pre-industrial levels.

Negotiations were meant to yield a on curbing Earth-warming in Copenhagen in 2009, but that meeting ended in a political brawl.

The new deadline has been set at 2015 for a deal that must enter into force by 2020.

Aerial view taken on August 17, 2007, showing melting glaciers near Ilulissat in Greenland

Stern said the United States expected the new pact to be "an important first step"—a "workable framework that will be updated every five years".

It should list "nationally determined contributions" towards the reduction of .

Rather than targets being shared out among nations in a top-down approach, he stressed, each country should submit their targets "in a manner that they think is consistent with their capabilities".

The United States would be against a centralised review to determine whether all the pledges combined would be enough to tackle the problem, said Stern.

It would also not support any agreement that assigned different levels of responsibility for emissions curbs to different categories of countries—an issue that has bedevilled the talks from the start.

Developing nations like China and India want developed countries to have more stringent targets, given their long history of atmospheric pollution since the Industrial Revolution, but the US and other countries oppose the idea.

Developing countries had been excluded from responsibility in the 1997 Kyoto Protocol on emissions curbs, which will be replaced by the 2015 pact.

"History did not stop in 1992," when the UN Framework on Climate Change was established with the principle of "differentiated responsibilities", said Stern.

Since then, China has become the world's biggest greenhouse gas emitter, followed by the United States, Europe and India. Developing ' contribution to emissions is now expected to reach 60 percent by 2030, he added.

The envoy said his country and China, seen by many as holding the key to unlocking a global deal, were engaged in a "quite intensive bilateral engagement" on the topic.

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User comments : 44

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freethinking
1.7 / 5 (16) May 22, 2014
But I was told about 14 days ago by Climate experts we only have 500 days to save the earth. 19 months is 570 days..... WE ARE DOOMED I TELL YA! DOOMED....

How about this, destroy America's economy then the USA will no longer emit CO2..... Oh wait... Obama and the Democrats are trying.....

kivahut
4.4 / 5 (10) May 22, 2014
If Obama and the Dems wanted to destroy the economy they would have had a much easier time in 2009, but they chose to save it instead. The US should at least try to bargain in good faith, rather than spying on the other delegates.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) May 22, 2014
they chose to save it instead.

How?
Millions STILL unemployed, millions on welfare, millions forced onto Obamacare against their will, millions lied to about Obamacare,
howhot2
4.1 / 5 (9) May 23, 2014
Geez you guys are ignorant. You hate the black Obama so much that you would drive this country to communism instead of supporting just one of his ideas. Sorry to tell you all, Obamacare is here to stay, and regardless of what you toads thing, it's far better plan than you ever dreamt up.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (13) May 23, 2014
Deny all you want, but Obama's ideas are pure socialism and they are destroying the economy and killing people.

Obamacare is here to stay,

The Bolstad Act was repealed.
Slavery was repealed.

I did note how Obama's policies were NOT defended. But instead his fellow traveler accused those who oppose the racist Dear Leader of being racist.
A sure sign there is no rational argument for socialism.
Anda
3.1 / 5 (7) May 23, 2014
You yanks are all about politics right? And denialism, creationism...
Just stop contaminating. At least China doesn't deal with religion.
You are a rotten decadent empire...
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (10) May 23, 2014
At least China doesn't deal with religion.

Yes, they do.
They murder those who don't support the state religion.
And the Chinese communists don't give a rat's a$$ about 'climate change' or reducing their 'carbon footprint'.
How do AGWites propose to persuade the Chinese to play nice? Politics? War?
You yanks are all about politics

The 'I" in IPCC is 'international'. Their leader is from India.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (12) May 23, 2014
They murder those who don't support the state religion.

And many 'liberals' envy the Chinese for this power to murder their opponents and have stated so in public.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) May 23, 2014


"Wednesday on TVOne's "News One Now," host Roland Martin asked the highest-ranking African-American in Congress Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) if he saw any similarities to today and the Jim Crow South.

Clyburn said yes and that the Benghazi investigations are the same as the post-Reconstruction period.

"I see the same kinda efforts to discredit this president, this administration," Clyburn said. "
http://www.breitb...iticians

If any black, hispanic, woman, ... wants to be treated as an equal, become a conservative and you will be attacked by white, black, women, .... 'liberals' of all races and sexes.
JohnHartshorn
5 / 5 (6) May 24, 2014
We must create a new level of international cooperation to deal with climate change effectively. This requires flexible and creative diplomacy, more so than is usually evident. Just about all countries stand to lose big though if things fall apart, so the incentives to find workable compromises are very large. Just as society outgrew walled city-states and trade isolationism when better forms of organization became possible, we are now becoming keenly aware of the necessity to develop supra-national structures to solve planetary scale problems. We should hope that this crisis will help drive the next stage of evolution in human cooperation.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (6) May 24, 2014
You yanks are all about politics right? And denialism, creationism...
@anda
not all yanks... only idiots and certain religious yanks. some of us actually have intelligence and common sense, but the idiots breed faster and give louder voices to their offspring, take rygg, for example
You are a rotten decadent empire...
and so is England and China... so cast your malignant personal conjectures elsewhere as it is irrelevant to the subject
We must create a new level of international cooperation to deal with climate change
@JohnHartshorn
1- welcome newbie. I hope you enjoy it here. just fyi- posts with links/references to peer reviewed studies/empirical data do better, but logic is always welcome
2- you're barking up the wrong tree... rygg ignores common sense and logic... just ignore her. She is a troll and spammer of the worst kind. and likely paid for disruption and sowing FUD

PEACE
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) May 24, 2014
a new level of international cooperation

The key word is 'cooperation'.
Now to you mean 'cooperation' among nation-states or among individuals?
supra-national structures

Do you mean world government that has the power to plunder and regulate the world?
this crisis

Quite convenient. The 'crises' is being promoted the the proto supra-national structures.
Caliban
4.2 / 5 (5) May 25, 2014
They murder those who don't support the state religion.

And many 'liberals' envy the Chinese for this power to murder their opponents and have stated so in public.


Well, I can't say that I would lose any sleep if you were picked off, rygsuckn', by a socialist or otherwise.

Just the same, as I've said before, I would be satisfied with your being Tarred, Feathered, and Ridden Out of Town on a Rail.

It could be considered a Public Health & Sanitation Measure.

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) May 25, 2014
'Liberals' are tolerant?

Once again cal demonstrates the classic socialist response, violence against those who oppose them.
Socialism can't exist without coercive violence to plunder wealth and silence opposition.

What makes 'liberals'/socialists mentally ill is the systemic irrationality of socialism. North Korea is a classic case, but all socialist statists suffer from irrationality of the system.

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) May 25, 2014
"Mao Zedong has been long admired by academics and leftists across our country, as they often marched around singing the praises of Mao and waving his little red book, "Quotations From Chairman Mao Tse-tung." President Barack Obama's communications director, Anita Dunn, in her June 2009 commencement address to St. Andrews Episcopal High School at Washington National Cathedral, said Mao was one of her heroes.

Whether it's the academic community, the media elite, stalwarts of the Democratic Party or organizations such as the NAACP, the National Council of La Raza, Green for All, the Sierra Club and the Children's Defense Fund, there is a great tolerance for the ideas of socialism — a system that has caused more deaths and human misery than all other systems combined."
"One does not have to be in favor of death camps or wars of conquest to be a tyrant. The only requirement is that one has to believe in the primacy of the state over individual rights."
http://cnsnews.co...er-e-wil
Vietvet
3.9 / 5 (7) May 25, 2014
@ryggeson2

You are one sick puppy.
Caliban
5 / 5 (6) May 25, 2014
'Liberals' ...?
Once again cal demonstrates the classic socialist response, violence against those who oppose them.


This depends upon how you define "Violence", but, in general, I would support its use against"people" such as you. I.e. --rendering you unemployed, removing any publicly funded safety net, and foreclosing upon your home...that'd prolly do it.

Socialism can't exist without coercive violence to plunder wealth and silence opposition.


Oh? And just where are the violent, repressive, coercive regimes to be found in Denmark? Germany? Sweden? Norway?

What makes 'liberals'/socialists mentally ill is the systemic irrationality of socialism. North Korea is a classic case, but all socialist statists suffer from irrationality of the system.


And what makes you mentally ill and systemically irrational is that --let me repeat yet again-- that you were dropped upon your tiny, misshaped, troll head.

Repeatedly.

Nothing iller than a troll/moron hybrid.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) May 26, 2014
Oh? And just where are the violent, repressive, coercive regimes to be found in Denmark? Germany? Sweden? Norway?


"In Germany, parents who refuse to send their children to state-approved schools face fines, imprisonment and the removal of the children.

http://www.bbc.co...26454988

And in Scandinavian states, free market principles are being applied to save the states:
For example:
"But the government unveiled an unpleasant surprise in June, when it halved the country's whopping four-year unemployment benefits period to help mend its finances after the financial crisis.

The reason: Danish studies show that the longer a person goes without a job, the harder it is to find work."
http://economix.b...amp;_r=0

Sweden repealed its tax on wealth.

And for Norway....

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) May 26, 2014
"Norway has created a system that makes it virtually impossible to pull ahead of your peers financially. People are excused for not working hard and squandering the opportunities they could have grabbed.

Everyone is the same status, and such equality imbues a unique socialist variety of happiness.

This attitude has been deeply inculcated in Norwegian society through what's known as Jante Law; this is an informal dictate which essentially says 'You're only as good as everyone else.'"
"People who think that 'we should just be like Norway' are missing an even greater point: all of this central planning is made possible by huge oil reserves"
http://www.sovere...es-8235/

One more note about Scandinavia, all states are quite small ~5 million people with a common culture, except in the Muslim districts.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (8) May 26, 2014
"Some 5,198 foreign citizens were expelled from the country (Norway) in 2013, an increase of 31 percent since 2012, when 3,958 people were deported."
http://themuslimi...e-crime/
"Immigrant parents should take more responsibility for stopping the wave of street crime sweeping Oslo, Norway's new prime minister has argued. "
http://www.theloc...orway-pm
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
This effort would not be rewarded in Norway so no one would attempt the effort.

" "Have you ever seen or heard anybody babbling about privilege that has any kind of track record of success? I didn't become a partner in a law firm because my great-great-great grandfather came over from Bavaria, okay? I started out mopping-out stalls at McDonalds. On the military side, I didn't become a full-Colonel because somebody liked my skin tone. I started out as a Private 27 years ago this Tuesday.

All of us have worked; all of us have achieved something and that's how we measure character; that's how we measure what the value of a person is. Not some arbitrary category imposed by some ponytailed grad students who've taken too many gender studies seminars." "
http://www.tpnn.c...ivilege/

Norwegian repression is like the Japanese repression of standing out.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
"It is a story about the crippling affect of social conditioning referred to in the novel as Jante Law. This work is very familiar to those who grew up in Scandinavia, as Sandemose hails from and lived in that area. The story focuses on the effect of a theory summed up in a series of proclamations, or rules, known as Jante Law, that are ingrained in the minds of residents of a small town. These rules seek to not just level the playing field for everyone but stifle any growth or prevent any break from the conventional wisdom and customs as they relate to this small community based on the author's hometown. "
"Earl Nightingale says that the opposite of courage is not cowardness, it is conformity. "
http://peteraursn...f-jante/
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
"First and foremost, they include the need to "do something" on climate change, but to do it in a way that maintains the hierarchy of the current economic order. Neither Friedman nor his fans are socialists--just the opposite, in fact. Friedman is rich, having married a billionairess, and having done pretty well on his own as columnist, speaker, and best-selling author. And Friedman's core supporters are rich, too; they are either Wall Streeters or trust-funders.

As befits those with surplus time and money, the Friedman Class might feel pensive about melting icecaps and polar bears and penguins. Or it might have decided that the Hamptons are simply getting too crowded and there's no more need for new people with nouveaux money.

Either way, something must be done. But we must note: The Friedman Class doesn't want to reduce its standard of living; it just wants to reduce your standard of living. "
http://www.breitb...l-Day-We
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
I disagree with the part that Friedman is not a socialist.
A socialist supports the power of the state over the individual. Friedman's socialism advocates the use of state power to enrich themselves and keep themselves in power.
Friedman is the same as most climate scientists who depend upon govt power and plundered wealth.
there's no more need for new people with nouveaux money.

Reminds me of how the 'old rich' treated the likes of Molly Brown.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
Oh? And just where are the violent, repressive, coercive regimes to be found in Denmark? Germany? Sweden? Norway?


If Germany doesn't change, the violence will come, just at it did in the 20's and 30's.

"Germany's Angela Merkel expressed regret that populist parties had done well in EU elections and said it was up to governments in countries like France to win back voters with policies that foster growth, jobs and competitiveness."
""I think a course that focuses on competitiveness, growth and jobs is the best answer to the disappointment."
http://www.reuter...20140526
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014


"he story of this Euro-election has been the rise of the minor parties – some of them bizarre, some of them downright potty, but all of them united by a visceral dislike of the EU bureaucracy: its arrogance, its remoteness, its expense, its endless condescension and its manic and messianic belief in its right to legislate for all 500 million people in the EU. "

"Now is the time for France, Germany and others to listen to Mr Sarkozy, and recognise that he is right. It isn't good enough just to circle the wagons and tell the people of Europe to get stuffed, because next time the frustration of the electorate may be uncontainable. "
http://www.telegr...ide.html
Maggnus
4.4 / 5 (7) May 26, 2014
Look it the local loon go! 9 quote-mined posts in a row!

What happened there dimbulb, your mom forget to give you your medicine again?

If you are so worried about it, why don't you climb out of your mom's basement, blink a few times to help get used to the light, then go start some movement or something? You know, stop whining and actually do something? You never know, you might even meet a girl (although, given the depth of your personality disorder, it's highly doubtful). They have camps in the Western US that you might find interesting....
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) May 26, 2014
Another (?) 'liberal' with nothing of substance to add.
Caliban
5 / 5 (5) May 26, 2014
Another (?) 'liberal' with nothing of substance to add.


Hahahahahaha!

Marjon -sometimes you crack my s**t right up. The fact that it is completely and obliviously unintended is what makes it so delicious.

Here you have -just as Maggnus pointed out- posted nine consecutive quotemined times with out presenting a single speck of any kind whatsoever of researched science, let alone any peer-reviewed, published scientific research.

On the contrary, all you've managed to quotemine is a lavish seven-to-eight thousand characters of opinion, completely devoid of any quantifiable -let alone qualifiable- data.
And, of course, it goes without saying that you've utterly failed to provide any relevant information -at all- regarding the draconian, coercive, reppressive socialist regimes in any of those countries, in a single one of those posts.

All of them are democracies, and all of them have made the very laws/policy under which they live.

It is you that labels them coercive.

Moron.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) May 27, 2014
All of them are democracies

So?
North Korea and Cuba claim to be democracies.
Define draconian.
While in Norway, I was told metal tips for cowboy boots were considered weapons. Martial artists had to be registered as deadly weapons. Beer had to be ordered one day and picked up the next.
Norway, the nanny state, treated everyone as children that could not be responsible for themselves.
'Liberals' seem to enjoy living as immature children with no responsibility for themselves.

Germans force all children into state run schools or they will take your children from you. Is that draconian?

There is a great movie, Interstate 60. In a scene Kurt Russell is the town sheriff that allows all to use a very addicting drug, like ecstasy, and party all night. But during the day they must be slaves to the town doing chores like sweeping the streets.
That doesn't sound too different than those 'happy' Scandinavian states.
Caliban
5 / 5 (5) May 27, 2014
All of them are democracies

So?
North Korea and Cuba claim to be democracies.
[...]There is a great movie, Interstate 60. In a scene Kurt Russell is the town sheriff that allows all to use a very addicting drug, like ecstasy, and party all night. But during the day they must be slaves to the town doing chores like sweeping the streets.
That doesn't sound too different than those 'happy' Scandinavian states.


Hahahahaha!

All you got is recourse to mining up some more of your shiny new Fool's Gold from the Vault of Irrelevant Inanity.

Now and again it is amusing to watch you throw up heaps of it in your desperate efforts to obscure that single, central fact.

Like watching a nature documentary about a prairie dog --maybe one entitled "Lionel the Tidiest Prairie Dog Cleans House", or some such.

Hilarious.


thermodynamics
5 / 5 (5) May 27, 2014
All of them are democracies

So?
North Korea and Cuba claim to be democracies.
[...]There is a great movie, Interstate 60. In a scene Kurt Russell is the town sheriff that allows all to use a very addicting drug, like ecstasy, and party all night. But during the day they must be slaves to the town doing chores like sweeping the streets.
That doesn't sound too different than those 'happy' Scandinavian states.


Hahahahaha!

All you got is recourse to mining up some more of your shiny new Fool's Gold from the Vault of Irrelevant Inanity.

Now and again it is amusing to watch you throw up heaps of it in your desperate efforts to obscure that single, central fact.

Like watching a nature documentary about a prairie dog --maybe one entitled "Lionel the Tidiest Prairie Dog Cleans House", or some such.

Hilarious.


Cali: Please don't insult Lionel the Prairie Dog!
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 27, 2014
Another missed opportunity for a 'liberal' to defend socialism.

What a surprise!
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) May 27, 2014
"In 1968 a Red Guard publication instructed that scientists must follow Mao Zedong's injunction: "Be resolute, fear no sacrifice and surmount every difficulty to win victory." Expert knowledge was not valid, and might be dangerously misleading, without the great leader's guidance. "
{1968, that was about the time the AGW movement started.}
"the prestige of the Mao regime in the west was at its height when the leadership was believed to be at its most despotic and murderous. For some of its western admirers, the regime's violence had a compelling charm in its own right."
"In the west, its practical efficacy was more limited. Among the radical intelligentsia, it provided a fantasy of revolution that enabled them to forget that their political influence was practically non-existent."
http://www.newsta...red-book
supamark23
5 / 5 (5) May 27, 2014
Deny all you want, but Obama's ideas are pure socialism and they are destroying the economy and killing people.

Obamacare is here to stay,

The Bolstad Act was repealed.
Slavery was repealed.

I did note how Obama's policies were NOT defended. But instead his fellow traveler accused those who oppose the racist Dear Leader of being racist.
A sure sign there is no rational argument for socialism.


You are an idiot, at least learn the meaning of the term "socialism" before using it next time. Oh, and get back to me when the gov't actually owns the means of production... but until then just STFU with your stupidity.
supamark23
5 / 5 (6) May 27, 2014
Another missed opportunity for a 'liberal' to defend socialism.

What a surprise!


What socialism? Why don't you go get an education? I suggest your first topic of study should be political and economic systems. Then, some basic science (as you're clueless there as well).
Vietvet
4.3 / 5 (6) May 27, 2014
@ryggy

You really need to get help with your obsessive-compulsive dis-order.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (6) May 27, 2014
at least learn the meaning of the term "socialism" before using it next time.


Government control of private property. For more details see Socialism by von Mises or the Road to Serfdom by Hayek or The Law by Bastiat.

gov't actually owns the means of production


Isn't it much easier for the state to pass laws that force the 'owners' to do what the state want them to do with 'their' property?
When the state can mandate what a person is paid, the state owns the means of production.

Socialists like to use the narrow definition of the term which would apply to AMTRAK or the VA hospitals, but not to General Motors, which the govt did own, and still controls via onerous regulations.
Or the Federal Reserve or the mortgage banks, government sponsored 'enterprises' is pure socialism.
Socialists advocate and support the regulatory state to force people to live the way the socialists wants.

Caliban
4.3 / 5 (6) May 27, 2014
at least learn the meaning of the term "socialism" before using it next time.


Government control of private property. For more details see Socialism by von Mises or the Road to Serfdom by Hayek or The Law by Bastiat.

gov't actually owns the means of production


Isn't it much easier for the state to pass laws that force the 'owners' to do what the state want them to do with 'their' property?
When the state can mandate what a person is paid, the state owns the means of production.

Socialists like to use the narrow definition of the term which would apply to AMTRAK or the VA hospitals, but not to General Motors, which the govt did own, and still controls via onerous regulations.
Or the Federal Reserve or the mortgage banks, government sponsored 'enterprises' is pure socialism.
Socialists advocate and support the regulatory state to force people to live the way the socialists wants.


Delusional, logorrheaic, moron.

ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (4) May 29, 2014
""Governments nominate academics to the IPCC – but we should be clear that it is often the environment agencies that do the nominating," Tol said in his written testimony, adding that it's "rare that a government agency with a purely scientific agenda takes the lead on IPCC matters."

"As a result, certain researchers are promoted at the expense of more qualified colleagues," Tol said. "Other competent people are excluded because their views do not match those of their government. Some authors do not have the right skills or expertise, and are nominated on the strength of their connections only."

Tol's concerns were echoed by fellow panelist Dr. Michael Oppenheimer of Princeton University. Oppenheimer is far from a climate skeptic and has participated in IPCC assessments for decades.

Read more: http://dailycalle...39EwnHsQ
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) May 29, 2014
Delusional, logorrheaic, moron
@Caliban
One of the BEST descriptors for Ryggy that I have ever seen! awesome!
certain researchers are promoted at the expense of more qualified colleagues
@rygg
its all a big conspiracy... I wasn't supposed to tell you Rygg, but I have voting rights on the new Consensus and Unification of New Technology for Climate History, Education, Eradication of (non conformist) Scientists on Earth, which meets four times a year to vote where climate science ad scientists will go, talk, post, publish and how the experiments will be run and published. we are THE peer review as well... and we're so secret we can't even publish our acronym.

don't forget about this one ryggy
https://www.youtu...Qp-q1Y1s

Caliban
5 / 5 (4) May 29, 2014
A panel of climate experts are telling the House Science Committee that politics often gets in the way of good science at the Intergovernmental Panel(IPCC)


This "panel of experts" consists of Richard Tol, an economics professor at the University of Sussex, and Dr. Michael Oppenheimer of Princeton University(who apparently lacks any academic credentials, since none listed). Two guys, neither are climate scientists? Where are the rest of them? Where's the sworn testimony?

This "hearing" was of hearsay only, and merely a sham to set up the punchline:

Update: Texas Republican Rep. Lamar Smith said the Obama administration "should stop trying to scare Americans and then impose costly, unnecessary regulations on them. The President says there is no debate. Actually the debate has only just begun. When assessing climate change, we need to make sure that findings are driven by science, not an alarmist, partisan agenda."


All according to the Daily Caller.

rygsuckn' moron.

antigoracle
1 / 5 (3) Jun 15, 2014
Yet they persist in wasting billions on this CO2 lie, knowing full well that it will solve nothing.
Caliban
5 / 5 (1) Jun 15, 2014
Yet they persist in wasting billions on this CO2 lie, knowing full well that it will solve nothing.


????

Moron.