First instance of ball lightning captured on video and spectrographs

Jan 17, 2014 by Bob Yirka report
First instance of ball lightning captured on video and spectrographs
Some scientific groups, including the Max Planck Institute, have reportedly produced a ball lightning-type effect by discharging a high-voltage capacitor in a tank of water. Credit: Wikipedia, CC-BY-SA-3.0-MIGRATED

(Phys.org) —Researchers in China have captured, for the first time, an instance of ball lightning, on digital video along with spectrographs. The accidental capture, detailed by the team in a paper they've had published in Physical Review Letters, offers proof that ball lightning does exist and because it was captured via spectrographs also, offers clues as to how it came to exist.

People have been reporting instances of for as long as people have been able to communicate. But until now, because of their rarity no one has ever managed to capture one on tape—that the researchers also captured data on only adds to the specialness of the event.

The researchers report that they were not out to capture video of ball lightning, instead, they were video-taping as part of a genera research effort. As they were recording, a ball lightning event occurred right in front of their camera. They report that it came into being just off the ground, travelled for about five meters before rising slightly higher and traveling for another fifteen meters before disappearing. The entire event last just over a second and a half.

More importantly, the researchers were also recording with spectrographic equipment which allowed them to discern the main elements that made up the ball. They found them to be iron, silicon and calcium, the very same main ingredients in soil.

Back in 2000 James Dinniss and John Abrahamson suggested in a paper that ball lightning was likely a result of normal lightning striking the ground. The immense heat, they suggested would be enough to cause silicon oxide in the soil to vaporize—the shockwave from the bolt would then push the gas up into the air where it would begin to glow as it was oxidized in the atmosphere. Six years later Vladimir Dikhtyar and Eli Jerby created what appeared to be ball lightning in a lab by following up on the ideas expressed by Dinniss and Abrahamson. The information from the spectrographs captured by the Chinese team appears to back up the theory as well.

The researchers that caught the ball lightning on video also reported that there was a slight anomaly—an intensity fluctuation at about 100 Hz, which they suggested may have been due to the influence of nearby power lines.

Explore further: Volcanic lightning recreated in the lab

More information: Observation of the optical and spectral characteristics of ball lightning, PRL, Accepted Monday Dec 16, 2013. prl.aps.org/accepted/ac07eY2cQ… 90317bc60f3d7e42e93c

Abstract
A ball lightning (BL) has been observed with two slit-less spectrographs at a distance of 0.9 km. The BL is generated by a cloud-to-ground lightning strike. It moves horizontally during the luminous duration. The evolution of size, color and light intensity is reported in detail. The spectral analysis indicates that the radiation from soil elements is present for the entire lifetime of the BL.

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Dr_toad
Jan 17, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
nathj72
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
Even if you had access to the APS journals, the article and any supplementary information (video) is not there yet.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (6) Jan 17, 2014
A stub that promises a video, then a link to a paywalled POS

Just email the authors. If you ask nicely I'm sure they'll either give it to you or tell you where they put it online. Scientists are really easy about that sort of thing.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Jan 17, 2014
Those darned electrons. I bet they run the universe.

Some people even think the electron in a hydrogen atom can drop below the lowest energy state... They call the theoretical hydrogen atoms that are in an energy state below ground level, "hydrinos" that can produce megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter.
_Scott
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
That's a file photo. It is not a frame from the Chinese video. In fact, it isn't really ball lightning.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 17, 2014
Those darned electrons. I bet they run the universe.

Some people even think the electron in a hydrogen atom can drop below the lowest energy state... They call the theoretical hydrogen atoms that are in an energy state below ground level, "hydrinos" that can produce megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter.

I'm not sure about "below" ground level part. Just closer to ground level (0) than anything we've seen before.
Nestle
3 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
A stub that promises a video, then a link to a paywalled POS
Just a link to the video for you.
found them to be iron, silicon and calcium
You can find many videos of ball lightning on the web. The red color of ball lightning develops even at the high altitudes, when the contamination with soil is impossible. IMO the most probable explanation is, the atoms inside of ball lightning are Rydberg atoms held together with London cohesion interactions.
Whydening Gyre
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 17, 2014
IMO the most probable explanation is, the atoms inside of ball lightning are Rydberg atoms held together with London cohesion interactions.


C'mon, Zeph. Everybody knows it's a vector-point probe from aliens or the future....
Nestle
3 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
This is a pointless verbiage of internet troll, who just want to oppose instead of argue. Rydberg matter, example of high altitude ball lightning.
shavera
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
Nestle... apparently we're also not supposed to feed the trolls. Huh... never would have seen that advice on physorg, since like 99% of comments are trolling/troll feeding
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
Sorry, Nestle.
I guess the intended humour of that comment was lost in translation...
Nestle
3 / 5 (4) Jan 17, 2014
If I would want to read some silly annoying attempts for joke, I could visit facebook, reddit or some other trolls web sites - there are myriads of them. The intelligent posts are much less abundant. In addition, your post was meant as an appeal to ridicule fallacy, the "intended humor" is just an evasion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 17, 2014
Those darned electrons. I bet they run the universe.

Some people even think the electron in a hydrogen atom can drop below the lowest energy state... They call the theoretical hydrogen atoms that are in an energy state below ground level, "hydrinos" that can produce megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter.

I'm not sure about "below" ground level part. Just closer to ground level (0) than anything we've seen before.
I know nobody here uses google but me. What a shame. I copied it from an interview with the inventor himself, who either knows science very well or knows how to make it up convincingly.
http://www.e-catw...tration/

In the future we will communicate by trading references. Think of the time we'll save.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jan 17, 2014
"According to Mills, a specific chemical process he calls "The BlackLight Process" allows a bound electron to fall to energy states below what quantum theory predicts to be possible. In the hydrogen atom, these states are postulated to have an effective radius of 1/p of the ground state radius, with p being limited by the speed of light to a positive integer less than or equal to 137. He terms these below-ground hydrogen atoms 'hydrinos'."

"Princeton University's physics Nobel laureate Phillip Anderson said of it, "If you could fuck around with the hydrogen atom, you could fuck around with the energy process in the sun. You could fuck around with life itself." "Everything we know about everything would be a bunch of nonsense. That's why I'm so sure that it's a fraud."

-I think he swears because he is SCARED.
Nestle
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
They call the theoretical hydrogen atoms that are in an energy state below ground level, "hydrinos" that can produce megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter
I've never understood this craziness. So, the energy is produced with formation of hydrino atoms. What next? The hydrino atoms nowhere leave the reactor, so that they must change back into normal hydrogen and the energy must be returned. In addition, the energy released during hydrino formation cannot be so high as Mills is claiming - it's essentially chemical reaction in range of few eV (or even lower, as it's allegedly subquantum state). IMO Mills is doing LENR or I don't know...
adave
not rated yet Jan 17, 2014
Earthquake lights are a ball lightning like discharges that happens near certain types of fault zones. There might be a relationship between earthquake lights and ball lightning. In 1918 ball lightning was observed on the west end of Ashland, Kentucky. Sure enough the Waverly Arch is just a little to the west and should have vertical faults. Over the years people reported floating lights on the north side of the Ohio river hills, moving too fast for a person to have caused them. This begins to match the rarity, color changes and behavior of ball lightning during a thunderstorm. Qinghai where the ball was observed in China is in an active earthquake area and on a plateau where you would expect vertical faults. A five meter ball of plasma is 15 feet in my measure. That is probably the most enormous lightning ball observed. It looks like ball lightning will be seen near fault lines that are in a rare condition of electrical stress. Oh and the geology of Ashland is all sandstone.
adave
not rated yet Jan 17, 2014
The 100 hz fluctuations might have been the nearby power lines or it could have been the "whistler" very low frequency oscillations in the Earth's magnetic field loop.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Jan 17, 2014
If I would want to read some silly annoying attempts for joke, I could visit facebook, reddit or some other trolls web sites - there are myriads of them. The intelligent posts are much less abundant. In addition, your post was meant as an http://en.wikiped...idicule, the "intended humor" is just an evasion.

Was annoying to you because you felt personally attacked. Was not in any way intended as that. Rather, I was attempting to non-confrontationally state that, due to ball lightning's seeming spontaneous and temporary nature, any explanation of it or it's cause(s) is still just speculative conjecture - a guess. And I find that funny in this day and age of "knowing everything".
BTW - Is there any news of what might cause excess excitation of a Rydberg atom? Or is that still in the "guess" category, as well? IMO it is multiple magnetic field interaction, but I'm just guessing...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 18, 2014
Those darned electrons. I bet they run the universe.

Some people even think the electron in a hydrogen atom ... at a density of billions of watts per liter.

I'm not sure about "below" ground level part. Just closer to ground level (0) than anything we've seen before.
I know nobody here uses google but me. What a shame. I copied it from an interview with the inventor himself, who either knows science very well or knows how to make it up convincingly.
http://www.e-catw...tration/

In the future we will communicate by trading references. Think of the time we'll save.

Otto, It's just my "left-handed, unschooled way of visualizing quantum equivalence" opinion. Ya don't have to assume I'm arguing as to what the BLP device can do or even the manner in which it does it.
Apologies if you feel I was correcting you in anyway.
BTW - Chuck. Artist. Education - listening to all you smart guys.
Nestle
1 / 5 (2) Jan 18, 2014
Was annoying to you because you felt personally attacked
Nope, because this comment was pointless verbiage. Your intentions are untestable, so you shouldn't use it as an argument.
due to ball lightning's seeming spontaneous and temporary nature, any explanation of it or it's cause(s) is still just speculative conjecture
Nope, it isn't. You just haven't read the hundreds of sources, which are available about this subject already.

Look, you can make a progress with thorough measuring of exact spectra in similar way, like the authors of above article are pretending. Or you can make a reliable conclusion with reading of hundreds reports and dozens of videos at YouTube. I know, many of these videos are fake and many witnesses are making stuffs up - but this is just the point. The contemporary people have memory of tropical fish and they don't handle the emergent deduction of the facts from multiple indicia in neural network way.
cantdrive85
2 / 5 (4) Jan 18, 2014
In my opinion, ball lightning is responsible for many if not most "UFO" sightings.

Here is an explanation for the phenomena.
http://www.peter-...tex.html
Captain Stumpy
Jan 18, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 18, 2014
The hydrino atoms nowhere leave the reactor, so that they must change back into normal hydrogen and the energy must be returned. In addition blahblah
Ya see wg this is what irks me. This dope has all these questions in his head but fails to realize he's on the INTERNET where only a few searches will answer them for him. Instead he comes to an INTERNET forum and asks other people to EXPLAIN it to him, which they will try to do, BADLY and incompletely and without references.

In the future AI will not ALLOW us to be ignorant.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 18, 2014
quantum equivalence" opinion. Ya don't have to assume I'm arguing as to what the BLP device can do or blah
Since when is the definition of a physics term like 'ground state' subject to opinion?
rmgeishamuse
not rated yet Jan 18, 2014
I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a "victim" of a ball of lightening. It was June 1970 and there was a violent thunderstorm. The rain was coming into the window, so I closed it but left the shade up about one inch. At one lightening flash, which seemed to freeze the sky into daylight, a ball of lightening flew into my bedroom through the closed window, and hovered over my feet. It was about 6" in diameter, and spinning, nearly white in color. It seemed to be there quite a few seconds. It then flew out the window exactly as it had come in. I was so stunned I couldn't move. My sister was a witness to this phenomenon.
Nestle
1 / 5 (2) Jan 18, 2014
In the future AI will not ALLOW us to be ignorant
IMO the disabling of web discussion would have the same effect.
a ball of lightening flew into my bedroom through the closed window
The ability of ball lightning to pass the glass has been reported multiple times. IMO it does exclude the whole range of ball lightning theories - like this one presented in the above article.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 18, 2014
[qThe ability of ball lightning to pass the glass has been reported multiple times. IMO it does exclude the whole range of ball lightning theories - like this one presented in the above article.
Only glass? Why not a brick wall? Or has that just not been observed yet? Refractive properties? Mass properties?
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 18, 2014
quantum equivalence" opinion. Ya don't have to assume I'm arguing as to what the BLP device can do or blah
Since when is the definition of a physics term like 'ground state' subject to opinion?

Ya "cherry-picked" what you quoted to change the context of what I was trying to convey.
I used my own definition of "ground state" in an attempt to describe my way of understanding. I just happen to utilize a different way of observing than you.
That two different methodologies can come to the same end result, actually should aid in the statistical validation of ANY concept.
Of course- just my opinion...
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 18, 2014
Only glass? Why not a brick wall?
The Rydberg matter model of ball lightning is based on microwaves with wavelength at range of few millimeters. The microwave effects are often observed during ball lightning: it can induce glow of fluorescent bulbs at distance in similar way, like the discharges of Tesla transform). These waves couldn't resonate at both sides of dielectric, if it would be thicker, than the wavelength of waves.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Jan 18, 2014
I used my own definition of "ground state" in an attempt to describe my way of understanding
Translation: you were not familiar with the physics term and so misunderstood my post.
I just happen to utilize a different way of observing than you
Translation: you didn't think otto was sufficiently versed in physics terms such as 'ground state' or you may have suspected that it was a formal term and bothered to look it up.

I ALWAYS research before I post. If I get an idea I ALWAYS assume that somebody else thought of it first, and so I look it up.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 18, 2014
Only glass? Why not a brick wall?
The Rydberg matter model of ball lightning is based on microwaves with wavelength at range of few millimeters. The microwave effects are often observed during ball lightning: it can induce glow of fluorescent bulbs at distance in similar way, like the discharges of Tesla transform). These waves couldn't resonate at both sides of dielectric, if it would be thicker, than the wavelength of waves.

In essence, the brick wall is a better insulator than glass?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Jan 18, 2014
Translation: you were not familiar with the physics term and so misunderstood my post.

I understand ground point - a reference point (0) chosen by consensus of classic math trained acolytes to allow for equivalence in mathematical solutions.
Translation: you didn't think otto was sufficiently versed in physics terms such as 'ground state'

Au contraire. I think you know exactly what "ground point" is.as practiced by science.
I also am aware, by watching the content of your posts, that you don't like to take an agreeable position on a lot of things. Which means that you like to throw things off balance, even if only just a little bit. Which, BTW is the reason I enjoy reading some of your posts - just the right amount of difference designed to provoke a reaction.
I also believe you understand the way I view difference of potential and would like to see if I have the "guns" to explain it in way that makes sense to the "consensus" audience.
oroark
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
The researchers theory that lightning directly causes ball lightning is not correct. I experienced ball lightning at close range, less than ten feet, in my living room. A lightning storm had been ongoing for about a half hour with numerous strikes in the area but none within 100 yards of my home and none within a few minutes. Ball lightning appeared in my living room about 10 feet in front of me. It hung in mid air for a second then exited my living room through the exterior wall. Immediately after it left the house normal lightning struck the ground outside where the ball lightning had exited my home. It appeared the ball lightning had attracted the normal lightning.. . .
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
reference point (0) chosen by consensus of classic math trained acolytes to allow for equivalence in mathematical solutions
In this case it has a very specific definition, which can be found on wiki.

"The ground state of a quantum mechanical system is its lowest-energy state; the energy of the ground state is known as the zero-point energy of the system. An excited state is any state with energy greater than the ground state. The ground state of a quantum field theory is usually called the vacuum state or the vacuum."

-And this def is essential to understanding why scientists don't think the hydrino is possible.
I also am aware, by watching the content of your posts, that you don't like to take an agreeable position on a lot of things
-What - are you saying its preferable to agree with people even when they're wrong?? That's peculiar.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Jan 19, 2014
Which means that you like to throw things off balance, even if only just a little bit.
You threw things off balance when you chose to make up your own def of ground state. I was only rebalancing things.
I also believe you understand the way I view difference of potential and would like to see if I have the "guns" to explain it in way that makes sense to the "consensus" audience.
No neither this statement nor your 2 ad hoc defs of ground state make much sense at all, particularly re the hydrino or the thread topic.

People dig holes sometimes to bury themselves. Is this what you're doing?
Whydening Gyre
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
And this def is essential to understanding why scientists don't think the hydrino is possible.

Dr. Mills seems to think they are. Your earlier posts seem pretty excited about his unit. Either he has found "vacuum energy" or a new lower ground state. Which is it?
Nestle
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
I can admit, that the hydrino exists, I can even admit you can release an energy, if you convert normal hydrogen to hydrino. But after then the Mills reactor must produce the hydrino in its free state - which it doesn't. For example, I can admit, that Andrea Rossi can produce an energy with fusion of nickel and hydrogen to copper, but after then reactor will produce a copper as the final stable product. By Randall Mills it's because, the hydrino is highly exothermic product, both highly unstable - which is thermodynamical nonsense. For me it's so self-evident, that I cannot believe, nobody raised this objection already. Everyone just doubts the hydrino existence - not the way, in which Mills hopes to generate the energy with it.
EWH
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
There was a likely prior video of ball lightning filmed by a security camera in Jakarta, Indonesia.
See: http://thebiggest...sia.html , especially the analysis and links to additional evidence in the comments. - The one at 1:25 PM has the link to the security video and a slow-mo and enhanced replay, the one at 1:49 PM has a link to a cellphone video that barely missed the event, but records the sound, the flash, and the crater blown in the pavement.
TheWalrus
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
The researchers theory that lightning directly causes ball lightning is not correct. I experienced ball lightning at close range, less than ten feet, in my living room. A lightning storm had been ongoing for about a half hour with numerous strikes in the area but none within 100 yards of my home and none within a few minutes. Ball lightning appeared in my living room about 10 feet in front of me. It hung in mid air for a second then exited my living room through the exterior wall. Immediately after it left the house normal lightning struck the ground outside where the ball lightning had exited my home. It appeared the ball lightning had attracted the normal lightning.. . .


More likely, the charge that led up to the lightning strike created the ball lightning.
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
the researchers theory that lightning directly causes ball lightning is not correct..
You can find few photos, which illustrate, how the ball lightning gets separated from normal lightning (1, 2, 3, ..). The ball lightning is recognizable by its typical yellowish-orange coloration at all cases - so I believe, these photos aren't fake. I'm not saying, that the lightning discharge is the only or even typical way, how the ball lightning can be formed - but these photos invalidate your claim rather clearly.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
But, can it be inferred (proven) that the two are associated in some way?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
And this def is essential to understanding why scientists don't think the hydrino is possible.

Dr. Mills seems to think they are. Your earlier posts seem pretty excited about his unit. Either he has found "vacuum energy" or a new lower ground state. Which is it?
"Mills calls the theoretical hydrogen atoms that are in an energy state below ground level, "hydrinos"."

-And thats the LAST thing Im gonna look up for you, unless its to make you look even dumber and lazier.
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
can it be inferred (proven) that the two are associated in some way
I don't understand such a question. You got three photons, in which path of ball lightning grows directly from path of normal lightning discharge. How did you get into your question, after then?
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
can it be inferred (proven) that the two are associated in some way
I don't understand such a question. You got three photons, in which path of ball lightning grows directly from path of normal lightning discharge. How did you get into your question, after then?

Is Ball lightning ALWAYS observed with actual lightning strikes?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
By Randall Mills it's because, the hydrino is highly exothermic product, both highly unstable
No, the hydrino supposedly exists in a few different energy states which are stable.
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
Is Ball lightning ALWAYS observed with actual lightning strikes?
This is different question, that the previous question "are these two associated in some way?" Of course, they're associated - well, sometimes. Of course, they do occur independently in another situations.
the hydrino supposedly exists in a few different energy states which are stable
But they don't leave the reactor, so that the hydrino energy must be returned back. BTW If the hydrino is stable and its formation releases so much of energy, how is it possible, the world isn't full of it already?
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
BTW The fractional energy state of hydrino means, that its electron revolve it at the energy level, which is half or one third of normal energy state. The ionization energy of hydrogen is few electronvolts, which corresponds the energy of burning hydrogen. Even if the electrons would revolve the proton at the ten times smaller distance, the energy released with it couldn't achieve the "megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter". The energy density of hydrogen compressed at 70 MPa is just one kilowatthour per liter and the pressure of plasma used is definitely lower than the atmospheric pressure.
Noumenon
5 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
I know nobody here uses google but me. What a shame. I copied it from an interview with the inventor himself, who either knows science very well or knows how to make it up convincingly.

In the future we will communicate by trading references. Think of the time we'll save.


But since anyone could use the internet as a vending machine for knowledge, not many substantive discussions would result.
Nestle
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
BTW The Randell Mills derivations of electron, neutron or even Higgs boson mass and small structure constants are amazing. If nothing else, he should be considered with caution just because of this.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
I know nobody here uses google but me. What a shame. I copied it from an interview with the inventor himself, who either knows science very well or knows how to make it up convincingly.

In the future we will communicate by trading references. Think of the time we'll save.


My bad... I thought you were talking about my References, not an information reference....
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 19, 2014
But they don't leave the reactor, so that the hydrino energy must be returned back
OF COURSE they leave the reactor which must be periodically recharged. Its not fucking perpetual motion.
BTW If the hydrino is stable and its formation releases so much of energy, how is it possible, the world isn't full of it already?
You know, if you think about it for awhile it might occur to you that you're not the first person that these questions have occurred to. I'll give you a minute.
...........................................................
There yet? Ok, so instead of me copy pasting for you, why don't you do the research yourself? It's fun. Really. Blacklight has it's own website and everything.
the energy released with it couldn't achieve the "megaWatt power at a density of billions of watts per liter"
Hey - I bet this isn't an original thought either but I'm not sure. Could you please look it up for me? Do they have google out on the pampas ?
Nestle
5 / 5 (3) Jan 19, 2014
it might occur to you that you're not the first person that these questions have occurred to. I'll give you a minute
"I've no explanation for it" would be more relevant answer. Never use RTFM fallacy, when you're trying to argue in matter of fact discussion. You just have some arguments - or you haven't.
OF COURSE they leave the reactor which must be periodically recharged.
Actually Mills even reported and characterized many alleged hydrino compounds. This is too much for me.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Jan 19, 2014
Reading the Black light promotional material - wow. This guy is looking to step on some big oil industry toes... I love underdog stories...
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jan 20, 2014
"I've no explanation for it" would be more relevant answer. Never use RTFM fallacy, when you're trying to argue in matter of fact discussion. You just have some arguments - or you haven't.
-Except that your questions, which you formed as statements, occurred to me as well and so I looked them up and learned the correct answers. Why don't I repeat them for you? Because I am not a fucking copy paste service.

I do note per your hot links that you found some answers. Good for you.
adave
not rated yet Mar 07, 2014
About passing through walls and glass, if you could project a ball from unerneath a wall or window it would look like it was moving horizontally.