Solid Concepts 3D prints world's first metal gun (w/ Video)

Nov 08, 2013 by Bob Yirka weblog

(Phys.org) —3D printing company Solid Concepts has announced that it has 3D printed the world's first metal gun—other guns printed using 3D printers have been made of plastic. Representatives for Solid Concepts say they created the gun to demonstrate how strong and accurate products made using 3D printing technology can be.

Over the past year, reports of guns being printed using relatively inexpensive 3D printers have raised concerns regarding a new way for people to gain access to weapons. Such concerns have died down, however, as newer reports have pointed out the weaknesses of plastic guns—they don't last more than one or two firings. That's not the case with the printed by Solid Concepts—engineers there fired their weapon over 50 times, with no apparent problems.

Printing with instead of plastic requires a whole new level of printer—one so expensive that most could not afford to buy or even rent one, thus, news of a printed metal gun isn't like to spark much if any controversy. It does however, as the company that printed the gun points out, highlight just how far 3D printing has come. In this case, the printer uses what is known as a direct metal laser sintering (DMLS) process—metal powder is heated to create a type of ink that can be used for printing. In the past, the process has been used to create surgical implant and aerospace parts. The newly printed gun, created using blueprints of a real handgun formerly used by the US military, was made by printing almost all of the parts—it was finished by assembling by hand. No machining was necessary, just some hand tooling. The process even included rifling (grooves inside the barrel that cause the bullet to spin as it's ejected) to ensure accuracy.

This video is not supported by your browser at this time.

Reps for Solid Concepts also note that printing their gun was completely legal—the company holds a Federal Firearms License. They add that the metal in their gun has less porosity than poured metal and allows for more complexity than metal that is cut using lasers. They hope to begin selling hard-to-find gun parts to manufacturers in the very near future.

Explore further: UK police cast doubt on 3D-printed 'gun parts' (Update)

More information: blog.solidconcepts.com/industr… d-printed-metal-gun/
www.solidconcepts.com/

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antialias_physorg
3.2 / 5 (9) Nov 08, 2013
Printing with metal instead of plastic requires a whole new level of printer—one so expensive that most could not afford to buy or even rent one, thus, news of a printed metal gun isn't like to spark much if any controversy.

Well, if a warlord can choose between ordering 1000 guns on the black market or one of these machines (where he can get 'upgraded' versions of guns or new designs any time)...what do you think he'll choose?

Especially given the risk of purchasing 1000 guns landing you on any number of watch lists if a rumor about this leaks out - whereas a printer isn't likely to cause the same number of raised eyebrows.

This may not shift things radically - but shift things it does nonetheless.
zorro6204
2.9 / 5 (21) Nov 08, 2013
I don't see how this changes anything at all, most arms used in the third world are Soviet knock offs, and it's not like there's a shortage. In the wilds of Pakistan individual craftsmen make assault rifles in dirt floored stalls. A different way of putting some bits of metal together is hardly going to cause a revolution.
Osiris1
1.3 / 5 (30) Nov 08, 2013
Bear in mind that the forces of liberty (some call them 'liberals') and the forces of darkness, limited rights, 'devine rights' for 'nobility'(some call them 'tea party', nazis, KKK, Haitien Ton-Tons Macoutes, black hand societies, triad societies, mafia)....will always be at odds. The invention of new weapons and the means to make them almost always upsets the status quo, immediately bringing out opposition from the dark side. Fortunately contemporary dark sides eventually lose. However, the new orders that emerge eventually get taken over from within, becoming the 'next day's' 'dark side'........much like the 'tea party nazis took over the republican party.

The simple invention of gun powder spelled the eventual end of government by 'nobility'. The invention of rifling hastened the end of nobility by centuries. The invention of moveable type in printing presses spelled the end of ignorance for the masses, leading to the religious reformation of the late middle ages.
Modernmystic
2.6 / 5 (22) Nov 08, 2013
Of course it shifts things. This isn't going to stay expensive forever.

Its main effect will be to decentralize power....both governmental and economic.

Oh and to clarify that shift in power has virtually NOTHING to do with what is printed, but that various goods CAN be printed. This isn't a gun thing, its a major cultural and economic shift.
Shootist
2.5 / 5 (24) Nov 08, 2013
"If you like your gun, you can keep it".
Aaron1980
1.6 / 5 (18) Nov 08, 2013
soon we will have the "Replicator" from star trek in our homes.... That is the real revolution and economic revolution ... no more stores for anything the size of a breadbox ... its only logical to make things as and when needed... food also should be printed by ink jet type devices
tadchem
2 / 5 (18) Nov 08, 2013
The gun is simply a proof-of-concept piece. The real revolution comes as people think of things that can be made this way and no other way that become indispensible - things such as prosthetic vertebrae.
djr
2 / 5 (4) Nov 08, 2013
I think this article does speak to us about a major shift happening as we speak. Currently gun manufacturers use a centralized manufacturing model - brought to us by the industrial revolution. They offer employment to (I am guessing) fairly well paid workers. Soon - we will be able to drop in to a local print shop - put in our order for our gun - and pick it up a few days later. Decentralization seems to be happening. I am guessing the gun from the print shop will be cheaper (anyone have a view on that?), and the centralized model is in trouble. Perhaps we are re-thinking employment.

Here in the U.S. - guns are so readily available - I don't think it will change the balance in that regard. I see Antialias' point about warlords in poorer countries.
Jeddy_Mctedder
1.8 / 5 (20) Nov 08, 2013
the reason 3d printing of conventional gun designs is stupid, is because unless they are doing something NEW with guns, they are not proving the utility of prototyping process using 3d printers. the 3d printer is valuable for rapid prototyping of advanced designs. it allows for entirely NEW designs and prototypes of those new designs.

there is NOTHING special about a conventional gun produced with a 3d printer other than its extraordinary price.

secondly , if you read

what's worse, the producer of the gun claims they are doing it to show the metal is capable of being used in a gun. gun tests require thousands of rounds be fired to show real world wear tear and corrosion on the barrel and springs. a 5 shot test shows nothing other than the gun will not blow up in his hand.

you will NEVER be reading about something patentable and worth money in public. by the time any new gun design worth its salt is publicized, any demo for the public will already be machined, not 3d printed.
Eikka
1.6 / 5 (19) Nov 08, 2013
Of course it shifts things. This isn't going to stay expensive forever.


It kinda is, because laser sintering isn't a process you can easily replicate at home. First, it requires a whole lot of power, and second, the fine metal powders are kinda dangerous to handle. Explosion and poisoning hazard and whatnot.

That said, these guys haven't proven anything yet because they haven't proof tested their gun yet. It may or may not be just marginally safe to operate, but we don't know until it blows up in someone's face.

a 5 shot test shows nothing other than the gun will not blow up in his hand.


An actual proof test involves two shots with a heavier than normal bullet and 20-30% overcharge. I think it was supposed to produce five times the normal pressure. Then the gun is taken to x-ray and magnetic testing etc. to see if it develops cracks. If it passes, it gets a proof stamp.
bearly
4 / 5 (4) Nov 08, 2013
While the printing "revolution" is a fine thing I am just as pleased as I can be the the 1st metal gun printed was a copy of my favorite, the John Browning 1911 .45 auto.
krundoloss
2 / 5 (16) Nov 08, 2013
They add that the metal in their gun has less porosity than poured metal and allows for more complexity than metal that is cut using lasers.


That shows promise. I am glad that this manufacturing technique is coming along, as it gives real control over the process and can be much more automated. Perhaps we can take back our manufacturing jobs from China!

It is a silly notion that this will lead to people creating their own guns illegally. It would be much cheaper to simply buy a gun illegally.

As far as local "3D Print Shops" being cheaper than centralized manufacturing, its all a balancing act between costs of raw materials, costs of the 3D printer, purchase or licensing of a design from the originator, and the cost to run the machine. If all that can be balanced, it could be much less than standard manufacturing, if only for the fact that less transportation was needed.
VENDItardE
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 08, 2013
Osiris1...is that another vendicare sockpuppet.....I just ask because it appears that you and Scott share much in common....like your stupidity for instance.
claymodleing
4.9 / 5 (7) Nov 08, 2013
A couple of points:

1. Many manufacturers of guns already use sintered metal parts in their pistols, they just use a different heat source than a LASER. Lots of steel products in your car are made this way, too.

2. A .45 pistol is perfect for this type of demonstration, as it has one of the lowest chamber pressures of any gun, pistol or rifle. So, it was not likely to fail, as pressures of 18,000 psi are easily handled by steel. Rifles, or other pistols, can have pressures over 60,000 psi.

3. They were just demonstrating that their DMLS metal was pretty strong, not that they could make a pistol. I think they proved that in a very dramatic way using this device. They could have make a prybar, or a hammer, but that wouldn't be nearly as dramatic as a pistol.

4. The fact that the pistol functioned multiple times not only showed that the metal was strong, but that the manufacturing tolerances were small enough for it to function properly.

TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Nov 08, 2013
Well, if a warlord can choose between ordering 1000 guns on the black market or one of these machines (where he can get 'upgraded' versions of guns or new designs any time)...what do you think he'll choose?
I think he would choose to buy guns he knew would work. According to the makers website the process includes machining, surface treatments, and an 'age-hardening heat process' which implies a shop with a lot more equipment and technicians.
http://www.youtub...QU#t=123

-It appears that as of yet barrels and chambers cant be printed which will withstand the pressures created with smokeless powder without additional heat-treating and professional finishing. And how long do you think that rifling will last?

I can imagine that if a cartel wanted to make its own guns it would make them in the traditional manner which has to be cheaper. Cheaper still to buy them from north korea.
Humpty
1.5 / 5 (16) Nov 08, 2013
Printing with metal instead of plastic requires a whole new level of printer—one so expensive that most could not afford to buy or even rent one, thus, news of a printed metal gun isn't like to spark much if any controversy.

Well, if a warlord can choose between ordering 1000 guns on the black market or one of these machines (where he can get 'upgraded' versions of guns or new designs any time)...what do you think he'll choose?

Especially given the risk of purchasing 1000 guns landing you on any number of watch lists if a rumor about this leaks out - whereas a printer isn't likely to cause the same number of raised eyebrows.

This may not shift things radically - but shift things it does nonetheless.


Ohhh no terrorists!!!! Like 6 people from the USA are genuinely killed by genuine terrorists per year....

LETS go and spend another 50 trillion dollars of invented money from the federal reserve private bank...

Antialias - why do fuckwits like you get to draw breath?
HTK
1 / 5 (13) Nov 09, 2013
can strong enough and durable springs be made with 3d printing?
HTK
1 / 5 (13) Nov 09, 2013
Yup obviously duh.

It will shift things. Think a little then it all makes sense.

like drug cartels who produce/supply billions of dollars worth of drugs.

guns made cheaply on demand i secret hide away places.... It's unstoppable.
CapitalismPrevails
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 09, 2013
Rock on! This is fantastic. I heard people do what i thought was fantasize about 3d metal printing a year ago but now it's apparently a reality. I'd bet an expensive reality but no less a reality. If they can 3D print metal, then it's probably possible to 3D print electrically conducting circuits as well. I can't wait for a 3D printed hardware wallet for Bitcoins to be available for download someday. 3D printing will be a force for liberty.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Nov 09, 2013
The real revolution comes as people think of things that can be made this way and no other way that become indispensible - things such as prosthetic vertebrae.

We already work with a company that prints (patient anatomy specific) titanium hip and shoulder implants using this method. They've been doing that for a number if years. (They also make parts for stabilizing defective vertebrae. Splints and cages)

It's still a bit more expensive than the regular one-size-fits-all implants you get from other manufacturers (about double the price), but especially with trauma and revision patients you often don't find suitable implants from the generic lines.

Since the price of the implant is only a small part of the cost of the a medical procedure (roughly 10%) they see a bright future for this - and I'd agree.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Nov 09, 2013
guns made cheaply on demand in secret hideaway places
Guns are already made this way. In britain there is a growing market for reassembled demilitarized (torch-cut) parts kits.

But britain demonstrates what happens when guns are banned. Black markets develop for smuggled guns. These guns are made by the millions, are dirt cheap, and are fully automatic because 1) full-auto guns are less complex and 2) many many more full-auto guns are made.

Your 3d printer needs a machine shop for heat treating, finishing, and assembly. It needs tech service, qualified operators, and a supply of easily-traceable raw materials.

AKM smugglers need only access to border tunnels or shipping containers on liberian freighters, the standard routes for tons of drugs and 1000s of illegals. And also for the ammo they need which cannot be printed.

And hip joints do not see stresses that chambers and barrels do.

The more you guys learn the less you realize you know eh? But ignorance IS bliss.
Noumenon
2.3 / 5 (21) Nov 10, 2013
Printing with metal instead of plastic requires a whole new level of printer—one so expensive that most could not afford to buy or even rent one, thus, news of a printed metal gun isn't like to spark much if any controversy


Metal powder could be mixed with a wax binder and then printed, but would require another step to burn off the wax in an oven.
Noumenon
2.5 / 5 (22) Nov 10, 2013
Bear in mind that the forces of liberty (some call them 'liberals') and the forces of darkness, limited rights, 'devine rights' for 'nobility'(some call them 'tea party', nazis, KKK, [......continues listing more mindless associations mixed in a blender of ignorance.......])....will always be at odds. - Osiris1


You're incredibly ignorant. While it used to be the case that "liberals" implied advocating liberty,.. it is no longer the case as that term was hi-jacked by the political left.

Modern "liberalism" as in "progressive liberals", advocate expansion of government powers, and the limiting of and regulation of human behavior. Exactly counter to this are conservatives, libertarians, and the Tea Party, who advocate limited government.

The Nazi's were Socialists, who desired complete government control, obviously. The "liberals" of the time (proper use of the term then) were counter to this and were for liberty, less government control.
Noumenon
2.4 / 5 (22) Nov 10, 2013
Printing with metal instead of plastic requires a whole new level of printer—one so expensive that most could not afford to buy [..] printed metal gun isn't like to spark much if any controversy


Anyone could buy a CAM based milling machine and lathe and build their own black market guns for sale, in any case.

The controversy should not be centered on the availability of weapons to the general public, as it is akin to trying to hold back the ocean, .....but instead on the lack of consequence for those committing violent crimes.

Presently, and due to liberalism, the worse that could happen to violent criminals is that they are retired to a life of leisure watching TV for 20 hours a day in their cell, and they know this.

The response to violent crime should be resoundingly devastating to the criminal,... meaning actual death penalty or hard labour for life.
Noumenon
2.3 / 5 (21) Nov 10, 2013
I think this article does speak to us about a major shift happening as we speak. Currently gun manufacturers use a centralized manufacturing model - brought to us by the industrial revolution. They offer employment to (I am guessing) fairly well paid workers. [...] Decentralization seems to be happening. I am guessing the gun from the print shop will be cheaper (anyone have a view on that?), and the centralized model is in trouble. Perhaps we are re-thinking employment.


The gun manufacturers will simply buy 3D printers for their production if they offer benefit, and you can already order online,... decentralized.

These 3D printers are cool, but are not so revolutionary. There have already been for decades multi-axis milling machines that read cam files, and run without human intervention, automatically changing out milling bits, measuring probes, and parts, via robot.
Estevan57
1.8 / 5 (20) Nov 11, 2013
Noum, you are correct. With a $600,000 US price tag plus expensive materials, and an excruciatingly slow build time, these are not a match for even the slowest of cnc machines.
They are easier to operate though.

A phone call reveals a 62 hour total build time. (before assembly) For just 1 gun!
That being said, the printer could be a solution for those who need to make one-off or rare parts from high strength materials.

Gun manufacturing is already very decentralized. The gun businesses generally have parts made by different sources and assembly is done at the main plant. 95% of the parts are made by cnc shops that bid on the parts. The most complex part in the model 1911a as shown here has a 22 minute run time in a cnc mill, including finishing, and measuring. And it has a much better finish.

Many people have made these at home, though the smart ones buy a pre-heat treated barrel.

http://www.cncgun...ame.html
Sanescience
1 / 5 (12) Nov 11, 2013
I'm double crossing my fingers that some inane issue like you can just so happen make a gun doesn't poison the well of the millions of awesome things 3D printing is going to make possible. It would be just like politics to throw the next age of manufacturing under the bus for their own agenda. To be able to manufacture efficiently and diversely without 20th century style mass production mega infrastructure is the only way were going to get colonies off the planet to work. (Plus fusion and effective genetic repair from radiation.)
antialias_physorg
not rated yet Nov 11, 2013
Metal powder could be mixed with a wax binder

The metal powder is currently being molten via a CO2 laser (no binder required). Binding via wax would not provide stability (as the wax would melt in an oven but the metal would not - leaving you back with a mound of powder again)

As an aside: A cargo ship carrying 20000 kalashnikovs was stopped yesterday in the the aegean sea (probably headed for Syria). If they'd had a printer that wouldn't have been a problem.
Eikka
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 11, 2013
If they'd had a printer that wouldn't have been a problem.


Maybe.

The problem remains that it takes a couple days to print the parts to a single gun. Perhaps you can cut the individual time by printing many parts in one go, but still it would take months, years to print 20,000 kalashnikovs.

If you want to do it in the 60 days it takes for a shipment to arrive from all the way across the world, you need to print out 333 1/3 guns a day, which is not a printer anymore but a whole factory of them.

It's like another similiar adage: never underestimate the bandwidth of a donkey loaded up with magnetic tapes.
antialias_physorg
1 / 5 (1) Nov 11, 2013
333 1/3 guns a day, which is not a printer anymore but a whole factory of them.

Printing hundreds of items per day is not as hard as you might think using a printer - as one printer can print parts for many guns at the same time. It's certainly not as fast as stamping the parts - but you don't have to deal with shady characters along the way or risk getting caught
(and you can print replacement parts for wear and tear parts as needed)

Guerillas/terrorists/freedom fighters aren't going to stay in the stone age forever.
antialias_physorg
1 / 5 (1) Nov 11, 2013
If I were a in charge of a terrorist cell (or just one of those "arm myself for the day I have to fight the gubernment"-nuts) - I'd invest in one of these babies right away. To get away from gun registration issues and watch lists.
No reason to stop at Kalashnikovs, either. Private gatling gun, anyone?
Eikka
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 11, 2013
as one printer can print parts for many guns at the same time


One printer can only print a handful of parts at the same time, and printing multiple parts slows it down anyways as it has to scan more area per slice.

Suppose you can fit five AK-47 barrels and other parts in the print volume of a commercial SLS printer and they can finish their job in 24 hours including the setup and lead time, and finishing/assembly. You still need 67 printers to finish the job in two months, and if each of those printers costs half a million dollars, it's simply not going to make any difference in illegal arms deals.
Eikka
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 11, 2013
but you don't have to deal with shady characters along the way or risk getting caught


Right, as if shipping in dozens of printers and tons of gunsteel powders while apparently making no legitimate business with them isn't shady enough to warrant a look by the feds.

There used to be a fad of printing counterfeit money with old offset printing machines, and some of them got pretty good at it. Nearly all of them got busted because they had to source their materials somewhere, so the police simply followed the inktrail.

Of course, you could source your materials via criminal channels, but then you're back to dealing with shady characters.
Noumenon
1.7 / 5 (17) Nov 11, 2013
Metal powder could be mixed with a wax binder

The metal powder is currently being molten via a CO2 laser (no binder required).


Yes, I understand. The reason I mentioned powder/wax is so that such an expensive laser would not be required, that it would 3D print like plastic would (speculation here).

Binding via wax would not provide stability (as the wax would melt in an oven but the metal would not - leaving you back with a mound of powder again)


Actually, it wouldn't. I wasn't speculating about this process. It already exists in manufacturing. Traditionally the process requires packing via high pressure into a mold in order to fill all gaps, but this would not be required for 3D printers since they print into the gaps.

The wax is not 'melted off', but instead evaporated off leaving the metal powder sintered and fused together. It is an old process.
antialias_physorg
1 / 5 (2) Nov 11, 2013
Right, as if shipping in dozens of printers and tons of gunsteel powders while apparently making no legitimate business with them isn't shady enough to warrant a look by the feds.

As I said: Dozens of printers aren't needed - and they certainly aren't as much on the radar of secret services as...oh let's say...guns. Since there are a LOT of legitemate uses for them...unlike...oh let's say...guns.

Metal powders are also rather easy to come by. If you really want to obscure that part of the transaction you can probably manufacture that yourself from any kind of suitable stock with little effort.

And who says you don't make legitemate business with them? You could probably set up a front that does legitemate business at day printing auto parts and guns at night. Printers are flexible that way.
That way buying metal powder would also not look illegal at all.

Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 11, 2013
If I were a in charge of a terrorist cell (or just one of those "arm myself for the day I have to fight the gubernment"-nuts) - I'd invest in one of these babies right away. To get away from gun registration issues and watch lists.
No reason to stop at Kalashnikovs, either. Private gatling gun, anyone?


It would be much more cost effective to setup a tool making shop, and invest in someone other than a pimple-face know-nothing computer dork to do the manufacturing.

Do you realize that used modern milling machine, that read CAD files directly, for less than $10k can he had that can cut to an accuracy of a thousandth of a mm. They even take into consideration the wear of the cutting bit.
Eikka
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 11, 2013
As I said: Dozens of printers aren't needed


And as I pointed out, dozens of printers are needed to maintain the same production volumes. You have a curious habit of disregarding anything that doesn't agree with your sentiment.

you can probably manufacture that yourself from any kind of suitable stock with little effort.


Oh, so you just need to buy metal shredders and ball mills and laboratory equipment to ensure consistency and quality, oh and also some process engineers to work for you - in effect set up another factory to produce the feedstock for your printers.

Really now, you're talking of building a whole small industrial village with material supply chains to "keep it a secret", in order to produce less guns slower than what can be shipped in a single crate from Chinese copycat factories in a couple months time.

The probability of getting caught in such a James Bond villain scheme is much larger than the random sting operations done on gun smugglers.
Eikka
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 11, 2013
Do you realize that used modern milling machine, that read CAD files directly, for less than $10k can he had that can cut to an accuracy of a thousandth of a mm. They even take into consideration the wear of the cutting bit.


You don't need a CNC mill to turn gunbarrels. That and the bolt are pretty much the only precisely machined parts on an AK-47. The rest is folded sheet metal with bits and pieces riveted in. That's why they can be put together for two dollars by just about any blacksmith even in extremely primitive conditions.

A manual lathe and a skilled operator can push out dozens a day, and it doesn't take much to learn the trade. For example, the leadscrew of the very same lathe can be used to pull a button rifling rod through the barrel, as seen in this video: http://www.youtub...VcInNMbw

The Singularity
1 / 5 (14) Nov 11, 2013
The human race does not need more guns!. Why would you demonstrate your new tech like this? When will people engage their brains & stop producing lethal weapons?.
The Army have enough, the police have enough. We do not need any more.
Would you be allowed to produce a deadly poison in your own home? How is a gun any different?
Dug
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 11, 2013
There are still numbers of components that could not be printed and made operable without a lot of other further processing. And no, this process won't get a lot cheaper because of the time, energy and refined materials involved, plus the addition of skilled finishing labor. The only concern here is the level of ignorance in consideration of a 3-D printed gun as a serious threat.

Additionally, consider that in WWII (1941) that Britain being unable to import arms (because of empty submarine supply blockades) built nearly 5 million STEN sub-machine guns (many of which are still around today) in local bicycle, auto repair shops, and moderately equipped home garages. They were built out of exhaust pipe and sheet metal using templates supplied by the gov. Actual cost for each weapon was just a few dollars/pounds. The point here is that 3-D printing still can't compete in firearms production if people want to build them at home (http://en.wikiped...ne_gun).
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Nov 11, 2013
a cargo ship carrying Kalashnikovs
Ahaahaaa aa wants to print AKMs now, not appreciating the fact that the seizure of that cargo ship indicates just how many if these full-auto monkey guns are available.

Only a small percentage of contraband is ever seized. Millions of these guns are already available and waiting for markets to open up as they did in Britain. Why print guns that will blow up in your face or wear out after 100 rounds when you can order a shipping container full?

Printers need tech service, qualified operators, and easily-traceable feed stock. The parts they print need further machining, heat-treating, and assembly by additional qualified technicians. Monkey gun manufacturers already have these resources, and only require dumbass mafia smugglers for delivery. And the world is full of them.

Hey ask estevan (steve) who says he owns the only cnc facility in Oregon that makes lower receivers for ar15s.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Nov 11, 2013
Re the sten, why try to print them when you can make them out of pipe and sheet metal?
http://www.youtub...a_player

-Now all you need is the dumbass mafia to smuggle your ammo for you. Re the article, FFL or not, I do hope these guys considered the implications of making shit versions of somebody elses patented designs.
dtxx
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 11, 2013
This printer is the last thing any warlord would use. For the cost of one printer he could get an amazing CNC set up and pump out guns so much faster and with less expensive starting materials. Plus, if the CNC mill breaks, someone in that part of the world might actually know how to fix it.

Unless a survival nut just hit powerball, this would be terrible for him as well. You could make so much better use of $600,000 in preparing for an apocalypse than to buy this machine. You could have a warehouse of gun parts for a fraction of that amount, and spend the rest on things you need. And again, if this thing breaks, where will you get parts/labor in the zombie wasteland?
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (20) Nov 11, 2013
Do you realize that used modern milling machine, that read CAD files directly, for less than $10k can he had that can cut to an accuracy of a thousandth of a mm. They even take into consideration the wear of the cutting bit.


You don't need a CNC mill to turn gunbarrels. That and the bolt are pretty much the only precisely machined parts on an AK-47. The rest is folded sheet metal with bits and pieces riveted in. That's why they can be put together for two dollars by just about any blacksmith even in extremely primitive conditions.



I agree, my point was more general than just cheap "guns". People think that 3D printers will revolutionize industry and even society,..... while there are already computer controlled machining.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (19) Nov 11, 2013
The Army have enough, the police have enough. We do not need any more.


People have the right to have the upper hand on criminals and to assume that the criminal has a gun. Once you successfully convince criminals that there is no need for weapons, then we can remove guns from society.

The police cannot protect you, they can only respond after the crime is already committed against you.

I thought liberals were going to 'rehabilitate' criminals and public education was going to solve crime and poverty. Until this occurs, individuals have a fundamental natural right to protect themselves.

To answer you question more directly, .... controversy is a good vehicle for advertisement.
Dug
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 11, 2013
If we had effective crime prevention (every police department should have to post the number of crimes vs. the number of crimes they solve each month publicly), then guns would be as useful to people as butter churns.

Getting rid of guns is easy. Make people feel completely safe - both from crime, the mentally imbalanced, terrorist, and the assumption of power by over reaching, power addicted, greedy and or fascist governments. Until then guns will continue to be necessary, useful and therefore in demand devices. How many devices in history have gone out of production while need (even perceived need), demand and markets were still growing? Thinking otherwise is simpleminded and or delusional.
Estevan57
1.8 / 5 (19) Nov 11, 2013
Actually Otto, you're the one who says I am the only cnc shop licensed for ar15's etc.
Ignorant bed-wetter.

I find it amusing that you call a guy with pliers, file and grinder a technician.
It probably seems that way to a "fries with that" person such as yourself.
Tech support is a phone call.
Printers are the easiest cnc machinery made. A bright high school student can take the training and run it.
Because the powder manufacturers are ISO certified, all the powders are traceable, no big deal, just like toothpaste.

Adding up the install and setup, training webinars, electrician bill to run 440 volt! lines, machine cost, lubricants, ventilation, labor costs, heat treat, electrical, and materials, it would not be a stretch at all to spend nearly a million US for 2,000 AK's.

And it would only take a year.

" - controversy is a good vehicle for advertisement" - Noum. - says it all

Medical is a more worthy of additive manufacturing, but guns are shiny and go bang.

antialias_physorg
1 / 5 (2) Nov 12, 2013
And as I pointed out, dozens of printers are needed to maintain the same production volumes.

Try to go to a factory where they have such printers. You'd be amazed how many items you can print in parallel in one printer. Basically as many as you can lay out on the area of the printer (and even stacked on top of one another to the volume capacity of the printer if you feel lazy about taking them out every once in a while). Metal laser sinter printers have the advantage that you don't need to print support structures.

in effect set up another factory to produce the feedstock for your printers.

The amount of equipment you need for that is rather small - not factory size. And, as noted: if you disguise this as a regular business you can just buy the stuff legit in bulk.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 12, 2013
Actually Otto, you're the one who says I am the only cnc shop licensed for ar15's etc.
Ignorant bed-wetter.
No I said that you are the only cnc shop in oregon that makes lower receivers for AR15s. Per your own boastings. The links are on my profile page.
I find it amusing that you call a guy with pliers, file and grinder a technician
I find it amusing that you you dont understand what it takes to fit, finish, and assemble firearms stevie, since you supposedly make parts for them. Maybe you should take a gunsmithing course, learn about things like annealing billets before you machine them, maintaining tolerances, that sort of thing.

Here you go this should get you started
http://www.optics...194416:s
http://www.youtub...o0UlvQxQ
Eikka
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 12, 2013
Try to go to a factory where they have such printers. You'd be amazed how many items you can print in parallel in one printer.


I can do basic math and have taken apart similiar guns and know what sort of parts and how large there are. The question is rather, how much more time the printer takes to print one more copy of the same thing, because they aren't really printing them in parallel. The time required for sintering one slice depends on the area to be sintered, which depends directly on how many copies you're printing. The more you pack the parts in, the slower the print.

Metal laser sinter printers have the advantage that you don't need to print support structures.


They do print support structures, because the powders aren't perfectly packed and incompressible. You do get parts that sag and shift under their own weight as the density changes, which requires some form of support to be printed in.The more stuff you try to print at one go, the worse the problem.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 12, 2013
They do print support structures, because the powders aren't perfectly packed and incompressible. You do get parts that sag and shift under their own weight as the density changes, which requires some form of support to be printed in
"The DMLS process has quickly become the preferred method of additive 3D prototyping and manufacturing for metals. In this process, powdered metal is sintered at 20-micron layers... As the layers are sintered a support structure is required, much like the SLA 3D rapid prototyping process. The support material is "scaffolding" sintered alongside to support upcoming build geometry. Dependent upon part geometry and orientation, the parts then go through a series of POST PROCESSES, including heat-treating, EDM support removal and final surface finish treatments."

-All of which require additional facilities and trained personnel. Not to mention those who will be assembling and testing your guns.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 12, 2013
Some details from the SC website:

"The gun was created with a metal laser sintering process and then STRESS RELIEVED. "The 17-4 Stainless Steel has not been post heat treated, which would further strengthen it. We wanted to test the material in a raw form first," says Eric Mutchler, Project Engineer at Solid Concepts. "We still have heat treatment options and further Inconel Super Alloys in 625 and 718 to try should our 1911 show any indication of failure."

"The 1911 3D Printed Metal gun was manufactured in 40 Micron layers with 3D Printing. The metal barrel was grown with rifled lands and grooves as modeled in its CAD design, as were the other components (save the springs, which were not printed)."
http://blog.solid...re-test/

-I just wonder what load they were using.
http://americanha...visited/

And why would you let strangers at a public range fire this prototype?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 12, 2013
-And uh stress relieving IS heat-treating
http://www.efunda...ving.cfm
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Nov 12, 2013
Americans 34 Times More Interested In Buying Guns Than Obamacare

http://www.zerohe...bamacare

Maybe this explains why America is a failed culture.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Nov 12, 2013
Americans 34 Times More Interested In Buying Guns Than Obamaca
Well since you brought it up

"Health care in Canada is anything but free," he states, noting that the average family of four pays more than $11,000 a year in taxes for hospital and physician care. However, he explains in an article for The American "surely such expenditure is justified if Canadians receive a stellar health care system in return for their tax dollars. Unfortunately, that simply isn't the case."
http://www.bdtonl...-at-work

-Among other things:

"Due to the lengthy waits, about 40,000 Canadians leave the country for treatment elsewhere each year (like the U.S.)... Patients in Canada are likely to wait two months or more to see a specialist, six days or more to see a doctor when sick or needing care and four hours or more in the emergency room."

-I assume this applies to gunshot victims.
Estevan57
1.9 / 5 (17) Nov 12, 2013
Otto, Otto, Otto, you ignorant bed-wetter slut.

"No I said that you are the only cnc shop in oregon that makes lower receivers for AR15s. Per your own boastings. The links are on my profile page." - the bed-wetter.

Well, after looking at at the links and not seeing the phrase wrongly attributed to me, nor ANY mention of AR15 lowers, it appears that you just a lying asshole. Your sock-puppets too.

However, here is one of yours to ponder...
"Sorry. You won't be able to print parts which can stand repeated pressures of modern smokeless powder ammo, like barrels and chambers. Perhaps black powder?"
http://phys.org/n...html#jCp

And why the hell would someone buy a billet that needed to be annealed when most are sold annealed to begin with? Because you just learned the words billet and annealed and used them improperly? Yup!

Your opinions are regurgitated wiki and Youtube, unfettered by formal or practical education.

Fries with that?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 13, 2013
not seeing any specific bullshit attributed to me
-But you're ALL bullshit esai. Those links are where you exposed details of your place of business. Most recently in the midst of boastings you admitted

"I never claimed to be exclusive on ar15 lowers"

-And there is only ONE cnc place in Oregon that makes ar15 lowers.

Does your mouth get you in trouble a lot?
fries with that?
-Are you practicing for when you get fired for claiming to own the company where you work, and for outing it's best customers in the midst of your selfish stalking obscenities?

Steve. The poor litte guy who shows up here every day without fail to 1/5 every post otto makes, because he 'owns' me.

Hows that working out for ya? Feel any more manly for the effort? Every one of your posts is about me esai. And in the process you have identified who you are and where you work, and youve shown the people here what a compulsive and obsessed little neurotic you are.

So ask yourself - who owns who?
Estevan57
1.9 / 5 (17) Nov 13, 2013
LOL, Otto Otto Otto, you can't even quote without changing it!

O magnificent bed-wetter - the answer to your question is YES I own you.

Because I only bother to post when you are especially pedantic and stupid. Which is often.

And you are such an ass that you have to use so many sockpuppets to support your wiki and YouTube generated "opinions".

Disagree with Otto and get

open | toot | ThisGuyIsAMoron | Father Brrenk | VendicarH | Dalriada | NamVet6666 | TheSicilian | Ballerina |

for your trouble. The mods are really the worst on this site.

I find you a study in narrow minded assholery. You really are a babe in the woods when it comes to real life application of technology. Ever MAKE anything besides an email address to create another sockpuppet? I didn't think so. It is easy to tell that you are single and a mean little shit.

Really now Otto, women kiss men in order to "swap biota"? - your quote!

Paper or Plastic?

TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 14, 2013
Sorry steve none of those sockpuppets is me. They frequently 1/5 me for guns, conspiracy, and other issues. But they don't seem to like you do they? This is because you are a lying stalking braggart who pays litte girls to do his stalking for him I suppose.

And you've given them enough personal info to locate you. Another sad story on the Internet. Keep talking. I know you can't stop.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 15, 2013
Here's steve: 'I own you otto I OWN you yes I do because I hate you I HATE you otto I hate you (I love you) I HATE you yes 1/5 yes 1/5 yes yes ah ah fapfapfap 1/5 1/5 1/5 fapfapfapfap --sploosh...'

-Premature again in a couple of different ways eh esai? Maybe you grow up someday if you refrain from touching yourself. Maybe.
Estevan57
1.7 / 5 (17) Nov 16, 2013
Your need for medication is quite apparent.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 16, 2013
There. See that? I knew you couldnt shut up. You're so easy. Keep showing up here every day, rain or shine, to 1/5 every single post I make because - well - you OWN me don't you?

Such is the sad life of the compulsive neurotic. How many times a day do you wash your hands? You sure your front doors locked? Haha better tie your shoes again they don't look quite right do they?
Estevan57
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 16, 2013
I post and you jump like a demented sissy. - It's my ownership over your irrational emotions.
Besides, it gives you a chance to exercise your sock-puppets.

You post every day. Neurotic much? Compulsive much?

It's a free forum Odd-toe. And it's not yours, as much as you want it to be. Rain or Shine.

Your need for medication is quite apparent.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 17, 2013
Sorry steve none of those sockpuppets is me. - GhostofOtto1923


They must know you personally then, ....maybe your daddy, or brother ("FrankHerbert/BAKOON") is an administrator for Phys.Org? I know the rating troll "NOM" is able to post without leaving a record in its activity page.

We know that they came to your rescue when you fell off your wiki-horse, in http://phys.org/news/2013-09-nasa-potential-asteroids-capture.html]this thread, where they deleted a factually inconvenient Esteven57 post and gave me and him a -3635356 rating.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 17, 2013
Et tu nou? As I have told you many times user input to websites such as this can be controlled by manipulating script downloaded onto your computer with the appropriate software. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Ever hear the term script kiddie? Look it up.

Recently I noticed someone exceeding the character limit. I asked how could this be. Someone posted an overlong post showing me that many people can do such things here.

And as far as 'rescuing' otto, lots of people here do not like impotent stalker trolls like steve. And many people seem to like what I have to say. Personally I think you are unfairly targeted sometimes but it is not by me. And I do not lie. Period.

'Kay?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 17, 2013
You may want to consider that among myself, ryggy, zephyr, and vendicar we probably generate the bulk of traffic on this site. I think i should get paid for this what do you think?

Such is the true nature of the netherworld. If you don't agree perhaps you should watch this once again.
http://www.youtub...a_player

'Warriors crowned on this day. Oooooeeeeaaawwwwwooooooo.'
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (15) Nov 17, 2013
Et tu nou? As I have told you many times user input to websites such as this can be controlled by manipulating script downloaded onto your computer with the appropriate software. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Ever hear the term script kiddie? Look it up.

Recently I noticed someone exceeding the character limit. I asked how could this be. Someone posted an overlong post showing me that many people can do such things here.

And as far as 'rescuing' otto, lots of people here do not like impotent stalker trolls like steve. And many people seem to like what I have to say. Personally I think you are unfairly targeted sometimes but it is not by me. And I do not lie. Period.

'Kay?


You can't lie if you don't answer questions. It's the sentence with the "?" concatenated at the end.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 17, 2013
Personally I think you are unfairly targeted sometimes but it is not by me. And I do not lie. Period.


I could almost set my watch according to the regularity with which the NOM/toot/open/lite/etc troll 1-rates posters. It could only be someone who has to be engaged with Phys.Org constantly as a site administrator, a psychotic who was granted computer privileges at the asylum, someone paying their a.d.d. half-wit nephew, a paraplegic, or Goebbels retarded grandson trying to obscure the value of posts for the benefit of impressionable know-nothings . There's no other alternatives.

Doesn't matter. The troll raters were not smart enough not to over-do it. Now everyone knows the rating system does not function as intended, and that troll raters abound.

Btw, you could probabily post more than 1,000 characters via copy&paste without further editing. This may help you for one of your anti-religeon diatribes,... although if it takes that many characters you're not wining.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 17, 2013
a paraplegic
Yah this is mu guess. Someone who types with his tongue (or her...) And NOM is not him. NOM has many good things to say.
more than 1,000 characters via copy&paste
Nope doesnt work the excess gets cut off.
one of your anti-religeon diatribes,...
-And I do enjoy our little chats where I get to demonstrate to you how you have wasted your life ascribing to the empty flummery which is philopap. Why would I want to discourage this by downvoting you en masse? I would not.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 17, 2013
And NOM is not him. NOM has many good things to say.


NOM is a typical bed-wetter who troll rates because (s)he doesn't like ones political views, not on content of posts,... no different than toot/open/lite/etc. This makes him corrupt and dishonest.

one of your anti-religeon diatribes,...

-And I do enjoy our little chats where I get to demonstrate to you how you have wasted your life ascribing to the empty flummery which is philopap. Why would I want to discourage this by downvoting you en masse? I would not.


How is your anti-religion crusade different from my anti-metaphysics, anti-intuition, pro-positivist approach in science, exactly?

Not many physicist write about religion, but many enter into the active field of 'philosophy of physics'. Why? Because questions concerning the non-intuitive nature of QM & GR are eminently relevant to modern physics.

"The a-priori intellectual faculties for which the mind evolved to synthesize and order experience at the macroscopic scale, are in effect, conceptual artifacts, and are therefore effectively artificial as applied to the quantum realm.

In other words, acquiring intuitive understanding Presumes a conceptual form, which may not be physically justified, though epistemologically necessary.

Such concepts,... locality, counterfactuality, space, time, separability, and causality,... necessary for intuitive understanding at the macro scale, are exposed as a mind dependent artificial synthesis, when applied to the quantum realm.

This is why physics can not provide knowledge of 'Independent Reality', and why 'Objective Realism' is therefore invalid. It can only provide predictive knowledge of experienced reality, i.e. empirical reality.

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp -Noumenon"
Noumenon
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 17, 2013
,.... I quoted myself above from another thread to demonstrate to you, exceeding the 1,000 character limit, that philosophy of physics IS relevant, and not all physicists agree with the last paragraph while some do.
Noumenon
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 17, 2013
Your avoidance of answering my question on two separate occasions, is in fact an answer. Your brother/father/aunt/friend/cat must have had contempt for you to think that you needed saving in such a corrupt manner in the above referenced thread. I don't. I think many of your posts are entertaining and factually correct,.... you just need to learn how to capitulate gracefully when destroyed by superior reasoning.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (8) Nov 17, 2013
my anti-metaphysics
Sorry you cant be pro-philo and anti-metaphysics. Its like taking the train to the ballpark by walking there.
pro-positivist approach in science
See? An -ism word. Scientists have no use for -ism words unless its something like magnet-ism.
a-priori counterfactuality conceptual artifacts Independent Reality Objective Realism
More vapid USELESS philocrap. No scientist has any need whatsoever for philocrap.
while some do
Yah some have other bizarre hobbies and some drink too much. So what?
Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
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Noumenon
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 17, 2013
where they deleted a factually inconvenient Esteven57 post and gave me and him a -3635356 rating.


... Esteven57 has never ever made a factual post, inconvenient or otherwise, so how could any one remove one?


I wasn't conjecturing. He did make a purely factual post, and it was deleted, while the three of us were posting in real time, so I witnessed it.

So SIT DOWN and SHUT UP, you are embarrassing yourself. With all that wordy philosophical mumbo-jumbo you sound like the offspring of an idiot who mated with a moron.


Actually, you should 'cut the cord' and let GhostofOtto fend for himself. He does fine, and you only demonstrate your contempt for his intellect by presuming he needs your Jerry-Springer'esque defense. Stop embarrassing him.

Perhaps you would like to correct my statement above then, or are you too ignorant of physics and epistemology to do so, that you cower into the intellectual degeneracy of name calling?
Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Noumenon
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 17, 2013
... Esteven57 has never ever made a factual post, inconvenient or otherwise, so how could any one remove one?


I wasn't conjecturing. He did make a purely factual post, and it was deleted, while the three of us were posting in real time, so I witnessed it.


He never made a factual anything anywhere. It wasn't deleted, they let stupid people post anything here. Considering how stupid he is he probably got the "Submit" and the "Cancel" and "Edit" thingies mixed up. Maybe he deleted it him self because it only took him 90 seconds to realize how stupid it was.


Nope. I just told you I personally witnessed what occurred. You saying the opposite does not change the facts. His deleted post was of a purely factual nature quoting wiki.
Noumenon
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 17, 2013
Perhaps you would like to correct my statement above then, or are you too ignorant of physics and epistemology to do so, that you cower into the intellectual degeneracy of name calling?


How does physics and pissology have anything to do with each other? Skippy, SIT DOWN and SHUT UP, because you are making a fool of yourself. Let the smart people try to teach you something


If you have to ask such a question, then apparently it won't be you who teaches me anything.
Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
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Zephir_fan
Nov 17, 2013
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Estevan57
1.9 / 5 (17) Nov 18, 2013

Zephir_fan -
"Estevenian, are you still going out with that 500 pound democrat girl with the unlimited food stamp card? Please tell me you haven't started breeding."

Why would I date your mother? One of you is quite enough. You both are just too easy...

Why the rancor, since we haven't actually been in a conversation before?

Why does Noums' application of the concepts of philosophy to scientific study (quite valid, in my opinion) enrage you so much?

Just as it does Otto.... Mmmmm

Lets see - When old Oddtoe gets angry he uses one of his "bad boy" sockpuppets to "engage the enemy". Like Frankherbert or TheAntiphilo.

Welcome to the herd. Spiro Agnew.

Noumenon
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 18, 2013
Notice how neither one of them actually engage in substantive discussions of why a statement is wrong or why AWT is wrong, only "philo is yucky" or simply mocking the cranks. When I engage the johanfprins crank, I actually discuss the subject with him even through his wall of insults. It would be more effective, less disruptive, and valuable for others to learn from, if Zephir_fan could engage franklins on the actual subject matter to disprove him. But one has to know more physics than the crank if they're to do so.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Nov 18, 2013
you post every day. Neurotic much? Compulsive much?
Physorg has may articles about which I have much to say as I am very interested in them. You have nothing to say which is about anything else but me. And you are here every day at the same time to 1/5 every post I make.

Anyone here will tell you it is obvious you are in love with me. A grown man with a carry permit, in love with a character on the Internet. What would your colleagues think? What would your fat gf think? No more bacon for steve, she would say.

You do know you don't need a carry permit for a butt plug don't you?
Estevan57
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 18, 2013
Actually, Oddnose, my first post in this thread was a response to Noum.

It addressed 3 issues, the very high cost of the DMLS process, build time, and gun manufacture decentralization.

Cry me a river about that. Your next post attributed a lie to me.

Now I've got 40 guys doing funny walks around the shop patting their apron pockets saying "I got my official Otto b.p. carry permit". And the 2 women are doing it too.

That's what my business thinks about you.

Now I'm gonna buy them a turkey AND a ham for Thanksgiving...

Look at how you talk to people - Do you really deserve respect?
Zephir_fan
Nov 18, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Estevan57
1.9 / 5 (17) Nov 18, 2013
I am actually greatly amused by it. And why not? If someone manages to put such funny crap in a post it deserves to be ridiculed. Really now - just read it again. It's funny!

I love the Skippy bit, such a cute little almost putdown. Did you learn that on the in-ter-net?
Does it make you feel a little better than the next guy? A bit sassy? Edgy, like a tv tough guy?
If so, you are welcome to it.
Have a pleasant evening.
Zephir_fan
Nov 18, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Nov 18, 2013
 Now I've got 40 guys doing funny walks around the shop


Proud of that, are you Skippy?  
Maybe he thinks that's where he's supposed to keep a concealed weapon. You know, up his butt.

Hey steve what do those 40 guys think of working with an infatuated stalker who shows up here to downrate otto every_single_day? Pretty greasy esai.

Here's steve dealing with his conflicted emotions
http://www.youtub...a_player
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2013
look at how you talk to people
But look at what the little potty mouth has to say:

"Estevan57s CHARACTER: "to fuck your mother Otto" "son of a dead smoking whore" "Otto leckt seiner toten Mutter rauchigen Geruch Genitalien"..."Why are you looking for pussy, darling? U KNOW you only love to suckee on me." "Have you quit fucking your dog yet?" "Ignorant bed-wetter""

-Do those 40 guys read my profile page to see how respectable you've been here? What a loser you are.
Estevan57
2 / 5 (16) Nov 19, 2013
Your behavior nullifies your qualification to be treated as a person.

So cry me a river, I used bad language. Mod, Mods, help poor Otto.

Get over it and pull up your man-panties.

That's how I talk to YOU, not other people.

"Why are you looking for pussy, darling? U KNOW you only love to suckee on me."
This is actually the person you call Pussytard. I can show the link but you know a good lie is just as real as the truth, my little Baby-Hitler.

And people wonder why you call me steve. Your just so wrong. Again.

By the way, when a profile page reaches 1775 words, like yours, it's called a manifesto.

Have a pleasant day, tinfoil-hat-man.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (7) Nov 19, 2013
So what have we learned about steve from the above? Well we knew that he pays little girls to do his stalkings for him, but now we know that he gives out hams to people who will laugh with him.

Perhaps they are laughing at you instead of with you eh esai? This is why braggarts should try to keep their mouth shut.

You cannot buy respect with meat steve. See my profile page for much to laugh at. People who read that mess ARE laughing at you.
bmorrow492
1 / 5 (2) Nov 26, 2013
I wonder... when CNC machining was invented, did the gun control advocates become hysterical over the possibility that someone might use it to make a gun?