Evolution debate again engulfs Texas board

Nov 22, 2013 by Will Weissert

The long-simmering battle over teaching evolution in Texas boiled over again.

A Republican-controlled Board of Education extended preliminary approval of new science books for use in classrooms across the state but held up one biology text because of alleged factual errors.

What Texas decides has influence across the United States, since it is so large that many books prepared for publication in the state also are marketed elsewhere around the country.

Textbook and classroom curriculum battles have long raged in Texas pitting creationists—those who see God's hand in the creation of the universe—against academics who worry about religious and political ideology trumping scientific fact. At issue this time are proposed textbooks that could be used statewide starting next school year and through 2022 at least.

With midnight looming Thursday night, some of the state education board members singled out a textbook by Pearson Education, one of America's largest publishers. Many of the 20 concerns pertained to the theory of evolution. After a lengthy debate that got testy at times, the board voted to have three of its members pick a trio of outside experts to further scrutinize the book.

The board took a second vote Friday afternoon confirming its previous decision without further discussion. It will take final votes in January.

State law approved two years ago means school districts can now choose their own books and don't have to adhere to a list recommended by the Board of Education—but most have continued to use approved books.

Publishers submitted proposed textbooks this summer, but committees of Texas volunteer reviewers—some nominated by creationists who are current and former Board of Education members—raised objections. One argued that creationism based on biblical texts should be taught in science classes, while others objected that climate change wasn't as settled a scientific matter as some of the proposed books said.

Pearson and many other major publishers weren't willing to make suggested major edits and changes, however. Indeed, Pearson has challenged the 20 alleged errors that the citizen review panel claims are in the biology book.

The concerns raised included how long it took Earth to cool and objection to lessons about natural selection because "selection operates as a selective but not a creative force," according to reviewers.

Delaying the book's approval pending outside review was a proposal championed by some of the most conservative members among the board's 10 Republicans. But its five Democrats joined with more-moderate Republicans in questioning whether reviewers' objections were factually correct.

"I believe this process is being hijacked, this book is being held hostage to make political changes," said Thomas Ratliff, a Republican from Mount Pleasant who is vice chairman of the Board of Education.

He said he believed the same biology book was already being used in "over half of the classrooms in the United States."

"To ask me—a business degree major from Texas Tech University—to distinguish whether the Earth cooled 4 billion years ago or 4.2 billion years ago for purposes of approving a textbook at 10:15 on a Thursday night is laughable," Ratliff said.

Colleagues on the other side of the debate shot back that they "weren't laughing."

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Maggnus
4.6 / 5 (21) Nov 22, 2013
Pearson and many other major publishers weren't willing to make suggested major edits and changes, however. Indeed, Pearson has challenged the 20 alleged errors that the citizen review panel claims are in the biology book.

**applause*** Good for them, religious conservatism must be battled at every corner.
Q-Star
4.7 / 5 (14) Nov 22, 2013
State law approved two years ago means school districts can now choose their own books and don't have to adhere to a list recommended by the Board of Education—


Stupid law. Unless ya live outside of Texas, in that case ya will experience much less competition getting into the better universities.

but most have continued to use approved books.


Apparently that means most would like to continue to have the option of sending their children to world class universities even if that means teaching them the Devil's Lies.
Q-Star
4.6 / 5 (9) Nov 22, 2013
Here's a little more from one of my favorite blogs,,,,,,,,,,,,

http://doubtfulne...re-dumb/
JVK
1 / 5 (24) Nov 22, 2013
"...objection to lessons about natural selection because "selection operates as a selective but not a creative force," according to reviewers."

Stuart Kauffman, a theoretical biologist, wants natural selection removed from mutations theory along with the laws of physics, because natural selection is not supported by what is currently known about physics, chemistry, and conserved molecular mechanisms that enable adaptation in species from microbes to man.

What's left is mutation-driven evolution that "just happens." http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.2069

Picture the students going to classes on math, physics, and chemistry with that belief.

Zephir_fan
Nov 22, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
JVK
1 / 5 (19) Nov 22, 2013
The Surprising Origins of Evolutionary Complexity by Carl Zimmer:

excerpt:

"Others maintain that as random mutations arise, complexity emerges as a side effect, even without natural selection to help it along. Complexity, they say, is not purely the result of millions of years of fine-tuning through natural selection—the process that Richard Dawkins famously dubbed "the blind watchmaker." To some extent, it just happens."

http://www.scient...20130722

Indeed, that's surprising. What's not surprising is that anonymous fools are spouting nonsense. That always happens here.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (26) Nov 23, 2013
One more reason for the state to get out of the way of education.
But 'liberals' are opposed to vouchers and home schooling because they want the power of the TX education board to indoctrinate.
Even Sweden has vouchers.
Zephir_fan
Nov 23, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Zephir_fan
Nov 23, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
antialias_physorg
4.7 / 5 (13) Nov 23, 2013
but most have continued to use approved books.


Here's an interesting account what "approved books" means. It's by Richard Feynman when he was asked to help review/select books on a committee fot the Board of Education for teaching mathematics in schools.

As usual with his style it's a fun (if a bit lengthy) read. The absurdity of some of the things he had to go through are astounding - and I can't really see it being very different nowadays.

http://www.textbo...feyn.htm
VendicarE
4.6 / 5 (9) Nov 23, 2013
"One more reason for the state to get out of the way of education." - RyggTARD

Tardieboy has it 100 percent backwards - as usual.

It is another reason why TardieBoy's religion should get out of the way of education - the teaching of fact.
ShotmanMaslo
1.9 / 5 (17) Nov 23, 2013
Schools are there to teach the beliefs of academics. Not the people, not the government, and not the parents. Academics.
JVK
1 / 5 (16) Nov 23, 2013
"Genetically altered mice are a powerful experimental tool, but the extent to which recent positive selection in humans acts on pathways and amino-acid residues that have been conserved across mammalian evolution is uncertain." http://dx.doi.org.../495325a

"...natural selection is an evolutionary process initiated by mutation. It does not have any creative power in contrast to the statements made by some authors." http://www.amazon...99661731

Genetically altered mice and experimental evidence from every other model organism shows that nutrients are naturally selected so that organisms do not starve to death, and that pheromones control the physiology of reproduction. The creative power of nutrients is that they epigenetically effect alternative splicings, amino acid substitutions, and stochastic gene expression, which enables the creation of new species with behavior controlled by the metabolism of nutrients to species specific pheromones via conserved mechanisms.
Sinister1811
4.1 / 5 (9) Nov 23, 2013
Pearson and many other major publishers weren't willing to make suggested major edits and changes, however. Indeed, Pearson has challenged the 20 alleged errors that the citizen review panel claims are in the biology book.

**applause*** Good for them, religious conservatism must be battled at every corner.


Doesn't that apply to all conservatism? :P
antialias_physorg
4.7 / 5 (12) Nov 23, 2013
religious conservatism must be battled at every corner.
Doesn't that apply to all conservatism?

Should apply to all dogmatic points of view (right, left, conservative, religious, whatever). As soon as dogma trumps reality things tend to go pear shaped.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (21) Nov 23, 2013
what in the hell would you know about indoctrinating in school?

I attended public schools in the 70s.
My children attended a charter jr hi school and one teacher counldn't find a history text that was any good published after 1979,
Schools are there to teach the beliefs of academics. Not the people, not the government, and not the parents. Academics.

Not today. Common core teaches socialism.

a voucher system is just another form of welfare.

I support ending ALL public funding of all schools. In the interim, I will accept the choice vouchers enable.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
"Some parents in Dupo, Ill. are not happy that a biography of President Barack Obama is required reading for fourth-graders. They say the book contains a host of controversial elements, not least of which is that it casts white Americans who disagree with Obama's politics as racist."

Read more: http://dailycalle...lTFg6KuP
'Liberals' don't oppose this?
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (21) Nov 23, 2013
Socialist indoctrination. 3rd grade grammar answer key:
"Government officials' commands must be obeyed by all."
"An individual's wants are less important than the nation's well being."
http://dailycalle...ksheets/
Zephir_fan
Nov 23, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Modernmystic
2.2 / 5 (17) Nov 23, 2013
Addressing these situations in this manner is not going to have a positive effect. You can't force people to agree with your ideas, you literally can't. What will happen is more and more religious people will pull their kids out of school for home schooling, or push for private school policies. The net effect of which will be the continued marginalization and decay of public schools in this country. Believe me conservatives don't need any other excuses to do that than what the DoE, NEA, and teachers unions have already given them. We have an ABYSMALLY embarrassing public schooling system in this country.

http://en.wikiped...on_Index

You will not convince them with science and facts. I'll say that again you won't convince them with science and facts. This is about fear, it isn't about what's true and what isn't. Address the fear, or continue to try to force people to believe what you want them to....and I wish you the best of luck with that one.

FTR: I'm an atheist.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
FTR: I'm an atheist.

A good friend homeschooled his children because of the abysmal performance of the Tucson Unified School District academics.
This is about fear,

Fear of what?
Science is not about facts. It is about a process of inquiry. If schools fostered childrens' natural tendency for inquiry, math and science scores wouldn't decline after 4th grade.
k-12 'Education' in the US is really about indoctrination based upon the Prussian model to indoctrinate and control people to support the state.
The problem with TX is no different than the overall problem with education in the US, indoctrination.
It is just that the 'liberals' in the US are opposed to the TX version of indoctrination, but not their version.
Who supports ending state indoctrination?
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
"So long as a government bans homeschooling broadly and equally, there is no violation of your rights."

Does this sound familiar? "So long as a government bans – guns, online poker, some but not other drugs, raw milk, incandescent light bulbs, sugar-filled sodas larger than 16 ounces, goose liver, and anything else uncontrolled government arrogantly chooses to ban – broadly and equally, there is no violation of your rights."
"All tyrants through the ages have understood that the key to controlling their lowly citizen-serfs is to control their thoughts."
""The Prussian mind, which carried the day, held a clear idea of what centralized schooling should deliver: 1) Obedient soldiers to the army; 2) Obedient workers for mines, factories, and farms; 3) Well-subordinated civil servants, trained in their function; 4) Well-subordinated clerks for industry; 5) Citizens who thought alike on most issues; 6) National uniformity in thought, word, and deed.""
http://www.examin...e/eric-h
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (21) Nov 23, 2013
How many here support this indoctrination?
"All over America, school children are being immersed in the radical green agenda. In fact, in many areas of the country children are actively trained to watch how their parents behave and to correct them when they are being "environmentally unfriendly". "
" All over America, students are being taught that the First Amendment does not apply in public schools. Expressions of free speech in school are often cracked down upon very hard. "
"In some U.S. schools, RFID chips are now being used to monitor the attendance and movements of children while they are at school. "
"The U.S. government is now encouraging children to spy on their parents as part of the "war on terror"."
http://endoftheam...on-camps
'Liberals' would rather focus on TX instead of their indoctrination across the US.
BSD
2.7 / 5 (22) Nov 23, 2013
If only conservative and religious halfwits would just disappear up their own arses. The world would be a better place.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 23, 2013
If only conservative and religious halfwits would just disappear up their own arses. The world would be a better place.

So 'liberals' can have their socialist paradise?
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 23, 2013
"Unfortunately, most of my classmates accept what's in our textbooks as the "truth" and are unaware of other points of view such as the Cato Institute's conclusion: "By the end of the Reagan years, the American economy was almost one-third larger than it was when they began." Real median family income went up $4000 during the Reagan administration. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the unemployment rate declined from 7% in 1980 to 5.4% in 1988. There was a net job increase of about 21 million from the signing of the 1981 tax cut to 1988.

An objective textbook would have pointed out that there are many economists who support supply-side theory. For instance, the influences of Robert Mundell and Arthur Laffer are represented in economic theories all across the world. "
http://www.breitb...conomics
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (7) Nov 23, 2013
One more reason for the state to get out of the way of education.
Yes we should allow islamists to teach the necessity of sharia law.

"The Council on American-Islamic Relations apparently believes in freedom of religion for itself, but freedom from religion for all other faiths, and has the audacity to impose this cockeyed reasoning on Michigan's public schools.

In April, CAIR's Michigan chapter demanded that a Detroit-area school district essentially advocate one particular religion — Islam — over all others.

CAIR lodged its complaint against the Dearborn School District..."

-Right ryggy?

Per dan dennett, religion SHOULD be taught in schools, comprehensively and comparatively, to dispel myths (of myths) and lies and bigotry of all sorts.

-at 4:00 (but watch the whole thing)
http://www.youtub...pA-WV_oE
JVK
1 / 5 (15) Nov 23, 2013
1973: "Reproductive isolation evidently can arise with little or no morphological differentiation."

1973: "alpha chains of hemoglobin have identical sequences of amino acids in man and the chimpanzee, but they differ in a single amino acid (out of 141) in the gorilla."

1973: "The remarkable advances of molecular biology in recent years have made it possible to understand how it is that diverse organisms are constructed from such monotonously similar materials: proteins composed of only 20 kinds of amino acids and coded only by DNA and RNA, each with only four kinds of nucleotides."

http://img.signal...nsky.pdf

Adaptations are nutrient-driven and pheromone-controlled! What has been taught, since shortly after the time of the "Scopes monkey trial," is mutation-initiated natural selection. That is a bastardization of Darwin's theory and of scientific truth.

James V. Kohl, founder: Pheromones.com http://pheromones.com/
VendicarE
4 / 5 (4) Nov 23, 2013
"I attended public schools in the 70s.
My children attended a charter jr hi school and one teacher counldn't find a history text that was any good published after 1979,"

1980 is the year that Ronald Reagan's administration made lying to the American people, it's priority.

VendicarE
3.8 / 5 (4) Nov 23, 2013
"Not today, Common core teaches socialism." - RyggTard

Didn't you claim last week that giving your dog a bath was socialism?

As we have repeatedly seen, your definition of socialism isn't any definition of socialism used here in the real world.

You have invented your own dictionary, applicable in your own fantasy universe.

It isn't applicable here in the real world, TardieBoy....
VendicarE
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 23, 2013
"I support ending ALL public funding of all schools." - RyggTard

Of course you do...

Education is the enemy of all Conservatives like yourself.

It gets in the way of you promoting your agenda of Fascism and Corporate Governance.
VendicarE
4.3 / 5 (6) Nov 23, 2013
"Some parents in Dupo, Ill. are not happy that a biography of President Barack Obama is required reading for fourth-graders." - RyggTard

RyggTard does't like learning. This is why he left out the following from the article he quotes..

Jaci DeClue, a school board member in Dupo, has emailed The Daily Caller claiming that no one in Dupo is required to read a biography of President Barack Obama.

"This book was a donated book in the presidential section of our library that a student checked out and took home," DeClue told TheDC. "It is not any part of the curriculum or been taught in any of our classes."

RyggTard... Caught lying again, and again, and again, and again...

No wonder he is opposed to public schools educating children.
VendicarE
4 / 5 (5) Nov 23, 2013
"An individual's wants are less important than the nation's well being." - RyggTard

Those who give their lives in battle for their nation are called Hero's.

What do you Conservatives really think of them TardieBoy?
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (18) Nov 23, 2013
CAIR's Michigan chapter demanded that a Detroit-area school district essentially advocate one particular religion — Islam — over all others.


One more reason for the govt to end its monopoly on education.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (9) Nov 23, 2013
CAIR's Michigan chapter demanded that a Detroit-area school district essentially advocate one particular religion — Islam — over all others.


One more reason for the govt to end its monopoly on education.
?? So then who would prevent religion-dominated regional schools from teaching kids pure crap? Make sense for a change.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (18) Nov 23, 2013
Who prevents the socialist dominated public schools from teaching kids pure crap now?
BTW, the socialist dominated public schools are very accommodating to Muslims today, but not Christians or Jews.
Zephir_fan
Nov 23, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 23, 2013

"Self-proclaimed "liberals" at Dartmouth, Northwestern, Harvard and a hundred other once-great institutions have crashed public forums and conspired against non-liberal speakers, often under the guise of demands for greater tolerance. Liberal tolerance once meant showing respect for those with whom you disagree. Today when college liberals invoke a need for greater tolerance, they mean the opposite: They want perspectives that offend them to be silenced."

Read more: http://dailycalle...lVRmZWCF
Why do 'liberals' fear Texas?
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (22) Nov 23, 2013
Who prevents the socialist dominated public schools from teaching kids pure crap now?
BTW, the socialist dominated public schools are very accommodating to Muslims today, but not Christians or Jews.
Jews have their own schools, and xtians are programmed by their own religion like stupid pigeons to worship Jews so they won't think independently. In religion Jews are the messengers of gawd and in reality they are arbitrators of what the philistines are allowed to think. If their minds are crap, it is for a greater purpose
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
"The headmistress at a primary school in a small town in England tried to order parents to send their children to a Nov. 27 workshop focused on Islam or else have the kids permanently labeled as racists for the rest of their academic careers."

Read more: http://dailycalle...lVTNszn5
Why must govt paid 'liberal' teachers make such threats for Islam?
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
"A 14-year-old high school student accused of murdering his math teacher allegedly left a note at the scene of the crime saying "I hate you all,"

Read more: http://www.busine...lVWK74zW
Where are the 'liberals' demanding hate crime charges?
BTW, this was in a 'liberal' MA high school. Chism was reportedly angry that he was not getting good grades in math to get into Harvard.
VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (6) Nov 23, 2013
"One more reason for the state to get out of the way of education." - RyggTARD

Tardieboy has it 100 percent backwards - as usual.

It is another reason why HIS religion should get out of the way of education - the teaching of fact.
VendicarE
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 23, 2013
"A 14-year-old high school student accused of murdering his math teacher allegedly left a note at the scene of the crime saying "I hate you all," - RyggTard

A good example of how Capitalism has destroyed the cultural adhesion and morality of Americans through the loss of time for family life, which prevents the adequate socialization of children leaving them to be raised by the entertainment products of Capitalism, "reality" TV, Porn, Thug Music and Video Games that train them to kill.

VendicarE
4 / 5 (7) Nov 23, 2013
"Where are the 'liberals' demanding hate crime charges?" - RyggTard

Children generally aren't prosecuted for "hate crimes", Tardieboy.

But you should be.

If lying were a crime, you would get the death Penalty.
VendicarE
3.5 / 5 (6) Nov 23, 2013
"The headmistress at a primary school in a small town in England " - RyggTard

RyggTard had to go all the way to England to get that particular piece of nonsense.

Hmmmm....

A new lawsuit says a Sunday School teacher molested one of his students in the 1980s and 1990s, and the church's pastor did nothing to stop it despite knowing the teacher was attracted to children.

Teacher Fired for Giving Student Bible
The Phillipsburg School Board voted Monday night to terminate the employment of Walter Tutka. He was accused of breaking two policies – distributing religious literature on school grounds and another policy that directs teachers to be neutral when discussing religious material.

VendicarE
3.4 / 5 (5) Nov 23, 2013
Memphis mom faces charges after shocking dash cam video

Oriana Farrell was a student at the Harding School of Theology.

Farrell was also a part of the home school community in Memphis. The Memphis Area Home Education Association says Farrell was part of a support group there.

police say Farrell drove off and left the officer standing on the side of the road

With her five kids in the van, Farrell ended up driving away from officers twice.

She surrendered at a local hotel.

Farrell and the 14-year-old son were arrested.

Police also found drug paraphernalia in her van.

Her friends say Oriana Farrell is a godly woman.
VendicarE
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 23, 2013
RyggTard - "Self-proclaimed "liberals" at Dartmouth, Northwestern, Harvard ..."

Are vastly smarter than you are, Tardieboy.

They see how your Sick Conservative Liedeology has bankrupted America..
VendicarE
4.1 / 5 (8) Nov 23, 2013
"Who prevents the socialist dominated public schools from teaching kids pure crap now?" - RyggTard

Isn't that why ConservaPedia exists? To teach Conservative Children the home skoolzen biblical truth that the world is only 6,000 years old and that Jesus was a white businessman who made a billion shekles by opening a string of dinosaur pet stores all over the middle east?

VendicarE
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 23, 2013
"the socialist dominated public schools are very accommodating to Muslims today, but not Christians or Jews." - RyggTard

Well, you know, it's all just part of Lucifer's war on Christmas.

You poor little Christian Victim.

We feel for ChrisTards like you. We really do....
VendicarE
3.5 / 5 (6) Nov 23, 2013
"Real median family income went up $4000 during the Reagan administration. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, " - RyggTard

Reagan borrowed over a trillion (1980) dollars to get those results. That works out to be around $16,000 per household.

So the net result for the average American was an apparent increase in income, but in reality that money was just borrowed by the Reagan Administration in their name, leaving the American people vastly in debt, and the American economy habituated on the Borrow and Spend Policies of the Republican Reagan Administration.
VendicarE
3.2 / 5 (5) Nov 23, 2013
"So 'liberals' can have their socialist paradise?" - RyggTard

Yup. Over your dead body.

Conservatives can only impede progress for a short time, even when they do their best to destroy their own country to prevent it.

kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (19) Nov 23, 2013
"Real median family income went up $4000 during the Reagan administration. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, " - RyggTard

Reagan borrowed over a trillion (1980) dollars to get those results. That works out to be around $16,000 per household.
This is exactly what the US administrations beginning with Bush are doing, causing repeatable bubble bursts as fantasy again crashes back to reality. The "recovery" this month in America where ONLY 600.000 jobs were lost cost at least $4 for every $1 of GDP produced. More likely it is $60 for every $1

At least under Obama, Americans are not rioting the way some did last month when their EBT cards stopped working. Imagine all 30million Americans on food stamps rioting simultaneously. Imagine the 100million non-working joining them! That is what the status quo will bring, and liebetarians will surely accelerate
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (17) Nov 23, 2013
At least under Obama, Americans are not rioting the way some did last month when their EBT cards stopped working.

When EBT cards failed a few months ago, BHO was president and wants more people to be dependent upon the dear leader for their life.
Imagine if BHO's socialist state faded away. People would begin working instead of depending upon the state. People would have real choices for health care and education and energy.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (19) Nov 23, 2013
Nevile BHO just made a deal with the theocratic, socialist state of Iran.
What a surprise, not.
Peace in our time?
I don't think so.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (20) Nov 23, 2013
"West noted that many of those teens involved in the knockout game would have, in his day, had jobs in their towns and would not be engaged in this behavior. But since the economic and education systems created by the left—including immigration policy which allows foreign workers into the country to compete with them for jobs—they have nothing to do but engage in violence.

"Well, guess what? If you have all of these inner-city black teenagers that have nothing to do, their education system is failing them. Well, in the summertime, I knew I could go down to McDonald's or Burger King, you know, Baskin Robbins, somewhere," he recalled. "I would go and get my little part-time summer job. They don't even have those options now. So, what are they doing? They're going out and they're beating on people. For what? For fun." "
http://www.breitb...Out-Game
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (19) Nov 23, 2013
This 'debate' in TX is just another 'squirrel' (from "Up!") to distract attention from the systemic failure of the 'liberals'' indoctrination system to educate.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (4) Nov 24, 2013
"failure of the 'liberals'' indoctrination system to educate." - RyggTard

Then why are the Liberal school systems all around the world doing a vastly better job at educating their students than they are in the U.S.?

Clearly the problem is not a "Liberal school system".

The failure is Your ideology of greed, deceit, self delusion, and Corporate Governance.
VendicarE
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 24, 2013
"But since the economic and education systems created by the left—including immigration policy which allows foreign workers into the country to compete with them for jobs" - RyggTard

Foreign workers have always been allowed into America. Nothing has changed there.

What has changed is the wholesale export of the American manufacturing sector to second and third world nations, and the resulting loss of jobs in America.

Who promoted that outsourcing? Why it was the Libertarian CATO institute, the Libertarian American Enterprise Institute, the Libertarian Competitive Enterprise Institute, the Libertarian Heritage foundation, along with literally hundreds of other Libertarian pro-corporate - anti-American StinkTanks.

And who facilitated the movement of America's businesses overseas?

Republicans of course.

And who is importing workers to do the jobs that American's can't? America's corporations of course.

Poor RyggTard. His sick Randite ideology is the origin of his own downfall.
arq
1 / 5 (15) Nov 24, 2013

Evolution is intelligent design!

It happened over millions and possibly billions of years and god was behind it. As for why god took millions of years to make us...well its millions of years for us but for god its less than a nanosecond or even lesser.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

And ryggesogn.......it was big corps who lobbied the govts and presidents (of both parties) to import cheap labour and when that wasnt enough, export jobs to countries with low wages.........ultimately they are the ones who benifited the most from sending jobs overseas!
antialias_physorg
4.2 / 5 (6) Nov 24, 2013
Evolution is intelligent design

Evolution (i.e. improvement via trial and error/random mutation) is exactly the opposite of intelligent design (design by premeditated plan).
If you're going to throw around big words make sure you know their menaings.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Menaing the exact opposite of each other they kinda are.

If there were intelligent design behind it then there wouldn't be any animals/plants created with defects that make them die immediately, now, would there? (and if that's part of the deisgners scheme then he's the most inept designer thinkable. Given a few billion years of design time even you could come up with something better)
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 24, 2013
.it was big corps who lobbied the govts and presidents (of both parties) to import cheap labour

The govt can say no, and quite often does when real free markets are involved.
Why do you believe 'big corps' support free markets?
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 24, 2013
Why do so many 'liberals' focus on evolution in the TX school board issue?
If the TX state school board did not exist, if state school boards did not exist then would your concerns about creationism in science text books disappear?
We are told that because TX purchases so many texts, the only texts available in the USA are the Texas version. Now many schools are using electronic texts reducing costs which eliminates this excuse.
But I don't believe 'liberals' want solve the problem.
No, the real issue is that 'liberals' are not opposed to centralized state sanction of text books, but only those books they can't use to indoctrinate.
The issue disappears if education is based upon decentralized market forces and parental choice.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (7) Nov 24, 2013
Who prevents the socialist dominated public schools from teaching kids pure crap now?
Why, the govt. If you religionists were in charge of public education, crap like the following could be read with a straight face.

"A Christian journal run by Harvard University students has apologized for publishing and republishing an essay by an anonymous writer who wrote that Jews deserve to be punished by God for killing Jesus.

"Gyde wrote that it wasn't the intent of the writer or the Ichthus to present an essay that could be interpreted as anti-Semitic. Gyde says the blog was intended to communicate the necessity of salvation through Jesus Christ.

"The essay was written by an anonymous Jewish convert to Christianity."

-Of course it was.

And what is it you all do with christ-killers ryggy? I mean if you were in charge that is? I suppose some religionist teachers would choose not to teach gospel john as it was written, but others would consider that blasphemy. And they would be right.
VendicarE
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 24, 2013
"Why do so many 'liberals' focus on evolution in the TX school board issue?" - RyggTard

Because it illustrates the persistent anti-science ideology of Religionist Republicans like yourself.

The ignorant can never be trusted to be anything but ignorant.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 24, 2013
Why, the govt.

Why haven't the socialist govt schools prevented govt schools from teaching crap?
VendicarE
3.8 / 5 (4) Nov 24, 2013
"But I don't believe 'liberals' want solve the problem." - RyggTard

You also believe that teaching science is socialism, and have stated that there is a global conspiracy among scientists to promote a one world communist state.

No one by your psychoanalyst cares what the mentally ill believe or don't believe.

kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (22) Nov 24, 2013
Why, the govt.

Why haven't the socialist govt schools prevented govt schools from teaching crap?
If they did then people like you would have no job
VendicarE
4.4 / 5 (7) Nov 24, 2013
"Why haven't the socialist govt schools prevented govt schools from teaching crap?" - RyggTard

They have for the most part.

Why do Christian Republicans want to teach their children that God Created Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago when he created the earth, Adam and Eve.

Morons.
VendicarE
4 / 5 (5) Nov 24, 2013
"Why do you believe 'big corps' support free markets?" - RyggTard

Because, for the moment, the unregulated movement of jobs out of America serves their bottom line, and because deregulation makes it easier for them to commit all manner of unregulated theft and petty fraud.

The purpose of every business to dupe the public into purchasing the worst possible product at the highest possible price.

Deregulation facilitates that goal.

VendicarE
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 24, 2013
"It happened over millions and possibly billions of years and god was behind it." - arq

How do you know it wasn't the giant spaghetti monster who is behind it?

Or a space Cactus named Bob?

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 24, 2013
And what is it you all do with christ-killers ryggy?

What do the socialist do with the Jew killers and all those anti-socialists who didn't agree with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao,...?
VendicarE
4.3 / 5 (6) Nov 24, 2013
"What do the socialist do with the Jew killers" - RyggTard

We find your compatriots and put them in prison where they belong.

"What do the socialist do with ... anti-socialists" - RyggTard

We attempt to educate them and imprison them when they invariably violate the rights of others.

"What do the socialist do with... who didn't agree with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao" - RyggTard

We agree with them.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2.9 / 5 (8) Nov 24, 2013
And what is it you all do with christ-killers ryggy?

What do the socialist do with the Jew killers and all those anti-socialists who didn't agree with Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao,...?
Those were all religionists which you know full well. Communists are not socialists. They are pseudo-religionists. They deify an ideal, select a chosen people, and denote a promised land in need of purging.

Communists all use religious words like spirit and soul. They KILL all true socialists first chance they get. Communism has always been de facto brutal martial law hiding behind a stolen dogma for the purpose of tricking one social class into making war on others.

Sam harris doesnt say it very well but he does say it.
http://www.youtub...ZSJ8eVSk

-See ryggy? Youre full of dogma-shit.
VendicarE
4.2 / 5 (5) Nov 24, 2013
"Nevile BHO just made a deal with the theocratic, socialist state of Iran. " - RyggTard

Would not making a deal have made them less theocratic?

As to socialist, every nation, including you own, is socialist according to you.

So your use of the term has no legitimate meaning.

The real term - "socialist" - on the other hand - not your phony personal definition - has a well defined meaning, and is useful.

goracle
1.7 / 5 (11) Nov 24, 2013
Schools are there to teach the beliefs of academics. Not the people, not the government, and not the parents. Academics.

Generally true, but I think the use of the term belief leads to confusion between things accepted on evidence with ideas that in the absence of evidence rely on belief.
goracle
1.7 / 5 (12) Nov 25, 2013
Why, the govt.

Why haven't the socialist govt schools prevented govt schools from teaching crap?

Good question, Ryggy. You are a clear indication that the teaching of crap is a surprisingly prevalent phenomenon.

If only conservative and religious halfwits would just disappear up their own arses. The world would be a better place.

Solving the problem of under-employed proctology graduates.
BSD
1.6 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
If only conservative and religious halfwits would just disappear up their own arses. The world would be a better place.

So 'liberals' can have their socialist paradise?


In a word.... Yes!

Better than a world full of conservative, end of world, religious halfwits. The cause of most of the trouble we have to endure.

Oh, BTW, I am a leftwinger and a universal hater of religion. Remember, the only good religious types are dead ones.
BSD
1.7 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
ryggesogn2, please tell me all this rightwing paranoia bullshit your writing is just being a troll with a sense of humour. Because it is quite funny if you are. If your not, you need to see a doctor man.
BSD
1.7 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
ryggesogn2, if you are suffering from paranoia and a hatred of science, you best get off the Internet. It was developed by science and the government is monitoring it.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
BS wants a socialist paradise like Venezuela? Cuba? California?
How about Lexington, MA that forces 1st grade students to read homosexual books?
Or other schools that force students to read statements that they must follow whatever the govt says?
If you think Sweden is a socialist paradise, Sweden provides vouchers so parents can send their children to the school of their choice.
The internet was developed to oppose socialism. It was designed for the DoD to communicate with nuclear missile silos in the event all other comms were destroyed.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
belief leads to confusion between things accepted on evidence with ideas that in the absence of evidence rely on belief.


Evidence for the success of socialism is absent yet govt schools continue to indoctrinate students with faith in socialism.
Where is the 'liberal' scientist outrage over such false teaching?
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
Oh, BTW, I am a leftwinger and a universal hater of religion. Remember, the only good religious types are dead ones.


An honest 'liberal': intolerant and wants to murder people who don't agree with him.
Modernmystic
1.4 / 5 (10) Nov 25, 2013
In a word.... Yes!

Better than a world full of conservative, end of world, religious halfwits. The cause of most of the trouble we have to endure.

Oh, BTW, I am a leftwinger and a universal hater of religion. Remember, the only good religious types are dead ones.


......

And one wonders why I talk about addressing the fear instilled in religious conservatives instead of science and reason.

If you ask me, an ardent atheist, which kind of world I'd have. I'd rather be surrounded by peaceful and ignorant delusional than people who espouse killing other people for their beliefs.
BSD
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 25, 2013
An honest 'liberal': intolerant and wants to murder people who don't agree with him.


No, I never said anything about murder. Your paranoia is making you see things that aren't there.

And one wonders why I talk about addressing the fear instilled in religious conservatives instead of science and reason.

If you ask me, an ardent atheist, which kind of world I'd have. I'd rather be surrounded by peaceful and ignorant delusional than people who espouse killing other people for their beliefs.


Again, no, nothing about murder in any of my posts.

I do advocate the banning of religious indoctrination of children. Religious teaching should be restricted to adults only. By then an adult bullshit detector should be fully developed so full critical analysis can be applied to this shit called religion. The net effect of this will be a gradual reduction in the religious population and with some luck, will be become extinct.
BSD
1.5 / 5 (13) Nov 25, 2013
The internet was developed to oppose socialism. It was designed for the DoD to communicate with nuclear missile silos in the event all other comms were destroyed.


.... and so what?

Developed for the DoD by science. Not by some mystic bullshit.

Now the government uses it to monitor people. Maybe even you, they need a good laugh.

Your birth ryggesogn2, was successful because of science. Your family likewise, all because of science.

Everything electronic device you use exists because of science. As much as you hate science, it has served you well.

Your missiles that you love so much, developed by science.
Modernmystic
1.1 / 5 (9) Nov 25, 2013
Religious teaching should be restricted to adults only.


Should be restricted? So your beliefs can't stand on their own merits...you need a gun to make your point?

I just want to be clear because apparently it's difficult to separate what you say from what you mean. Or perhaps more accurately you hide the spirit of what you mean behind the letter of what you say.
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (10) Nov 25, 2013
Everything electronic device you use exists because of science. As much as you hate science, it has served you well.


And science exists only in a world where the exchange of ideas is open and free. As much as you hate freedom of speech and expression it's served science well...
BSD
1.6 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
Should be restricted? So your beliefs can't stand on their own merits...you need a gun to make your point?

I just want to be clear because apparently it's difficult to separate what you say from what you mean. Or perhaps more accurately you hide the spirit of what you mean behind the letter of what you say.


No, it's quite simple. Let religious shit die by allowing adults to make up their minds. Religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.

Again, read what I have written, no guns, no murder.

That is more than can be said of religious types that kill people to make a point. All in the name of that figment called god.
BSD
1.7 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
As much as you hate freedom of speech


Never said that either.

Indoctrination is not free speech. It's abuse of another human being, worse because children generally have no way of knowing otherwise.

I'm not an atheist, what ever that is supposed to mean, the word theism makes no sense. It's just shit.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
BS:
No, I never said anything about murder.

BS:
Remember, the only good religious types are dead ones.


Indoctrination is not free speech. It's abuse of another human being, worse because children generally have no way of knowing otherwise.


But socialist and AGW indoctrination in govt schools is acceptable?
allowing adults to make up their minds.

Adults teach their children their faith.
How will BS force parents to stop teaching their children what the parents' want them to know without the state murdering parents?
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (13) Nov 25, 2013
No, it's quite simple. Let religious shit die by allowing adults to make up their minds. Religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.


No, that's your opinion and your value set. Nothing more. Other people have differing values and opinions. I'm sorry it distresses you that you have to deal with that...no wait I'm really not.

Again, read what I have written, no guns, no murder.


How are you going to enforce a ban on ideas without guns? Ask reeeeeealy politely?

What happens when people do it anyway and you shoot them? That isn't murder?

That is more than can be said of religious types that kill people to make a point. All in the name of that figment called god.


And two wrongs make the world right huh...

Indoctrination is not free speech.


That's your opinion that it's indoctrination and that it's not free speech. The United States Government, and its supreme court disagree. Them's the breaks...
BSD
1.6 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
How are you going to enforce a ban on ideas without guns?


We don't need guns, the majority of Australians are at best, disparaging and mostly hostile toward religion and toward those who try to ram it into our faces.

Can you please explain why you have an obsession with guns and murder? You have mentioned them quite a few occasions now.

BS:
No, I never said anything about murder.

BS:
Remember, the only good religious types are dead ones.


Your such a child aren't you? Doesn't say anything about science but abbreviates my ID to be abusive.

Again, Good Night
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (11) Nov 25, 2013
We don't need guns, the majority of Australians are at best, disparaging and mostly hostile toward religion and toward those who try to ram it into our faces.


So are Americans. We'd still need guns to enforce a ban on teaching religion to children in this country. You'd need them too count on it.

That IS what you were talking about right? A BAN on religious teaching. Kindly be clear, because you've been anything but up to this point.

Can you please explain why you have an obsession with guns and murder? You have mentioned them quite a few occasions now.


You mentioned the only good class of human is a dead one. I merely responded to that as any reasonable person would. And it's not an obsession with guns to recognize you're going to have to have armed police to enforce some of the immature policies you're suggesting.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
Since BS claims to be from down under, how well did the forced indoctrination of the aborigines work out?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (6) Nov 25, 2013
Since BS claims to be from down under, how well did the forced indoctrination of the aborigines work out?
Forced indoctrination in australia and canada was carried out by catholic and protestant organizations.
Modernmystic
1.4 / 5 (10) Nov 25, 2013
Since BS claims to be from down under, how well did the forced indoctrination of the aborigines work out?
Forced indoctrination in australia and canada was carried out by catholic and protestant organizations.


Indeed, and was that a good thing to do?

Or is it only a good thing if it's your team that's doing it?
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 25, 2013
Since BS claims to be from down under, how well did the forced indoctrination of the aborigines work out?
Forced indoctrination in australia and canada was carried out by catholic and protestant organizations.

Without state force, how could this have occurred?
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
'Liberals' are not worried about this?
"Common Core is nothing less than the latest attempt by the U.N. to impose on the United States a globalist perspective with the utopian goals of worldwide peace, environmental sustainability, and economic fairness. In that context, Common Core is part of the Obama administration's "transformational" education plan that places emphasis on global relationships rather than a unique American culture. "
"patriotism, religion, and individualism are anathema, as each competes with the globalist vision of world harmony." "
http://www.breitb...n-System
Global socialism is most important than education.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
"the Department of Justice challenged the state of Louisiana in court for starting a scholarship program that frees low-income minority children from failing schools. "
{Can't have children learning something the state does not want them to learn can we?}
" school choice will be tolerated only if it is regulated by the federal government. "
http://www.breitb...n-System
ONLY the govt can indoctrinate!
goracle
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 25, 2013
Memphis mom faces charges after shocking dash cam video

Oriana Farrell was a student at the Harding School of Theology.

Farrell was also a part of the home school community in Memphis. The Memphis Area Home Education Association says Farrell was part of a support group there.

police say Farrell drove off and left the officer standing on the side of the road

With her five kids in the van, Farrell ended up driving away from officers twice.

She surrendered at a local hotel.

Farrell and the 14-year-old son were arrested.

Police also found drug paraphernalia in her van.

Her friends say Oriana Farrell is a godly woman.

Why not? Rob Ford claimed to have had a "come-to-Jesus moment". Oh, right, that's why...
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (5) Nov 25, 2013
Since BS claims to be from down under, how well did the forced indoctrination of the aborigines work out?
Forced indoctrination in australia and canada was carried out by catholic and protestant organizations.

Without state force, how could this have occurred?
Without religionist influence over state policies it would NOT have occurred.
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (16) Nov 25, 2013
@MM No, it's quite simple. Let religious shit die by allowing adults to make up their minds. Religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.
No, that's your opinion and your value set. Nothing more. Other people have differing values and opinions.
It seems you crossed the line between relativity and brain death with that statement
That is more than can be said of religious types that kill people to make a point. All in the name of that figment called god.
And two wrongs make the world right huh...
No, but three rights make a left
Indoctrination is not free speech.
That's your opinion that it's indoctrination and that it's not free speech. The United States Government, and its supreme court disagree. Them's the breaks...
That from a government that implements worldwide espionage and cyberterrorism and professes torture and chemical weapons and random bombing/droning as a good idea
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 25, 2013
Without religionist influence over state policies it would NOT have occurred.

The state has the monopoly on force and should enforce laws that respect and defend the rights of all individuals.
But of course atheists and socialists of all parties want to 'influence' the state to force those that disagree with them to be more agreeable.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Nov 25, 2013
The state has the monopoly on force and should enforce laws that respect and defend the rights of all individuals
And at the time of the atrocities in canada and australia the state drew its moral justification from the RELIGION which legitimized it.

The RELIGION justified the destruction of the incipient cultures, the kidnapping of their children, and the subsequent abuse and MURDER of these children.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 25, 2013
If the religionists in UK and in the USA had not influenced their respective states, there would have been no reason to outlaw slavery.
The RELIGION justified the destruction of the incipient cultures,

The govt has the POWER and has no obligation to justify anything to anyone.
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (18) Nov 25, 2013
The RELIGION justified the destruction of the incipient cultures,
@ryggie The govt has the POWER and has no obligation to justify anything to anyone.
And you love that excessive use of government power stealing oil for your corporate masters and the display of naked "American exceptionalism", you hypocrite
arq
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 26, 2013
@antialias,

What makes you think organism or animals with defects were not deliberate? For eg: people with ASD are usually considered 'defective' but some very brilliant inventions were done by them.

And like i said earlier too, billions of years to us isnt necessarily billions of years to the creator.

Do those words really sound so big to you?
arq
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 26, 2013
@ryggesogn2,

They dont say no because they are in the pockets of those big corps.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Why do socialists attack big corporations? They are all on the same team.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 26, 2013
"Haim Saban introduced President Obama with a four-minute speech that needled the commander in chief for the lack of valet parking at the White House."
http://www.weekly...961.html
Saban profits from the sale of the Power Rangers.
nowhere
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 26, 2013
Religious indoctrination of children is child abuse.


No, that's your opinion and your value set. Nothing more. Other people have differing values and opinions. I'm sorry it distresses you that you have to deal with that...no wait I'm really not.

Incorrect. Teaching children your fanciful beliefs as fact is indoctrination, which is abuse. Although it may distress you, abusing a child is wrong no matter the value you use to justify it.

Again, read what I have written, no guns, no murder.

How are you going to enforce a ban on ideas without guns? Ask reeeeeealy politely?

Strawman. There is no ban on idea, only a ban on forcing these ideas on children as fact.
What happens when people do it anyway and you shoot them? That isn't murder?

Strawman. How to deal with abusers isn't the point of the discussion, and doesn't negate the abusers guilt.
nowhere
3 / 5 (2) Nov 26, 2013
Indoctrination is not free speech.


That's your opinion that it's indoctrination and that it's not free speech.

Indoctrination is free speech, but free speech isn't a right but a privilege. When one abuses that privilege, whether in the form of hate speach, verbal abuse, or indoctrination, it becomes a medium of abuse that must be stopped.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Nov 26, 2013
What makes you think organism or animals with defects were not deliberate?

It's hard to see the deliberate aspects in defirmed/mutated babies that died before or shortly after birth - mostly rather gruesome deaths.

BTW: Your anthopocentricism is also somewhat...frightening (more correctly: horrifying).

And like i said earlier too, billions of years to us isnt necessarily billions of years to the creator.

He seems to be in a quite a hurry by all (religious) accounts whenever he does interact with his creation.

Your views are pretty inconsistent to the point where it's hard to see any sort of cognition going on at all. Maybe you should take a step back and start over from the beginning and reconstruct a new worldview...one that makes sense.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Nov 26, 2013
If the religionists in UK and in the USA had not influenced their respective states, there would have been no reason to outlaw slavery
Your religion was invented to enable all sorts of atrocity. As you know slavery is condoned and encouraged in your book. It was maintained for 1500 years BECAUSE of your religion. The humanist 'religionists' you refer to would have been burned as heretics a few centuries earlier.
The govt has the POWER and has no obligation to justify anything to anyone.
You also know that the British monarch is also the head of the church of England. The church WAS the state until humanists rose up and demanded an end to this unholy bond.

Religion is slavery by definition. Blind obedience to those who claim to speak for god.
BSD
1.6 / 5 (13) Nov 26, 2013
Again, no, nothing about murder in any of my posts.

I do advocate the banning of religious indoctrination of children. Religious teaching should be restricted to adults only. By then an adult bullshit detector should be fully developed so full critical analysis can be applied to this shit called religion. The net effect of this will be a gradual reduction in the religious population and with some luck, will be become extinct.


Read this again. It is quite clear. Religious "teaching" should only be taught to adults. An adult has the maturity to make up his/her own mind that ....

RELIGION IS BULLSHIT

Children don't have the maturity to do this and therefore is a form of child abuse to subject children to religious indoctrination.

My guess is, most if not all adults will recognise it as bullshit and refuse to have anything else to do with religion.

In the long run, it will lead to a natural death of religion as fewer and fewer people get involved.

Do you understand now?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (6) Nov 26, 2013
Hey look ryggy even your god thinks freemarket capitalism is evil.

"Pope Francis decried the unfettered capitalism that has created "a new tyranny" and an "idolatry of money" Tuesday in his first major work as pontiff.

"Just as the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill' sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say 'thou shalt not' to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills," Francis wrote in his apostolic exhortation, which amounts to a platform for his papacy."

-But this is only because the Vatican bank let him down, and lawsuits are bankrupting the church.

But the people will rise up and demand an end of capitalism just as they did slavery and feudalism, because it's time is past. And then they will end religion altogether before it destroys humanity.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (13) Nov 26, 2013
My guess is, most if not all adults will recognise it as bullshit and refuse to have anything else to do with religion.


CS Lewis, Tolkien among millions of others don't agree.
natural death of religion

Hasn't happened for thousands of years because science can't, and never will answer "why".
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Nov 26, 2013
Religious teaching should be restricted to adults only.


Should be restricted? So your beliefs can't stand on their own merits

Do you understand that in the case of indoctrination the child wouldn't have been exposed to his beliefs? Or in fact any other belief for that matter. So your comments doesn't make sense.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (4) Nov 26, 2013
never will answer why
Ryggy is like the straightman who sets up the punchlines in a tired old routine. People began waking up to nonsense questions like 'why' a long time ago. They first realized that 'god' is NOT an appropriate answer.

Your god describes things like the flood and the exodus and joshuas genocidal rampage and davids kingdom etc which evidence tells us didn't happen. This means he is either incompetent or a liar. So how can he be a reliable explanation for anything?

If there ever was a creator god he is certainly not the god who wrote your book. Science has determined this. And if there is a creator god only science will ever be able to find him.
arq
1 / 5 (12) Nov 26, 2013
@rygeesogn,

Because they are upset the govt is in the big corps pocket.
arq
1 / 5 (12) Nov 26, 2013
@anti,

I am not talking about what religions say about creation because different religions describe it in different ways.
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (21) Nov 26, 2013
natural death of religion
Hasn't happened for thousands of years because science can't, and never will answer "why".
Neither do you ever answer "why", ryggie. You just SPAM
arq
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
@anti,


I know its hard to think that people born with defects is deliberate. It seems like an accident to us, but its all part of the plan.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Nov 26, 2013
natural death of religion
Hasn't happened for thousands of years because science can't, and never will answer "why".
Neither do you ever answer "why", ryggie. You just SPAM

I know why socialists do what they do, power.
And that is why the 'liberals' get their knickers in a knot every time this issue in TX comes up. It is not science the 'liberals' are defending, it their power to control eduction.
Why do 'liberals' want such power? Mental disorder?
arq
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 26, 2013
@anti,


And no i am not anthropocentric, i only used the point of ASD people as an example.
goracle
1 / 5 (10) Nov 26, 2013


Indoctrination is not free speech.


That's your opinion that it's indoctrination and that it's not free speech. The United States Government, and its supreme court disagree. Them's the breaks...

When did the US government and it's Supreme Court determine jurisprudence around the world?
goracle
1.3 / 5 (12) Nov 26, 2013
If the religionists in UK and in the USA had not influenced their respective states, there would have been no reason to outlaw slavery
Your religion was invented to enable all sorts of atrocity. As you know slavery is condoned and encouraged in your book. It was maintained for 1500 years BECAUSE of your religion. The humanist 'religionists' you refer to would have been burned as heretics a few centuries earlier.
The govt has the POWER and has no obligation to justify anything to anyone.
You also know that the British monarch is also the head of the church of England. The church WAS the state until humanists rose up and demanded an end to this unholy bond.

Religion is slavery by definition. Blind obedience to those who claim to speak for god.

Thus the description of it by Hitchens as being a "celestial dictatorship".
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
If anyone believes a Progressive, just remember Progressives will lie, then lie about lying, they will accuse Conservatives of lying, then belittle conservatives, then state that Progressive lying is inconsequential.

A good example of this process in Obama care.
1. the lie, people will be able to keep their coverage.
2. there are no death panels
3. media lapdogs such as ABC, NBC, CNN, and even PHYSORG call conservative who point out the obvious lies as liars.
4. then they say yea, a few people losing healthcare isn't important
5. then the media lapdogs ignore the fact people are losing healthcare.


freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
Progressives cannot stand any challenges or questions to their dogma of Obamacare, Global Warming (woops now it's climate change), Evolution, Social Justice. They will lie, intimidate, lie some more, and ignore anything that doesn't fall into line of their dogma.
goracle
1 / 5 (11) Nov 26, 2013
If anyone believes a Progressive, just remember Progressives will lie, then lie about lying, they will accuse Conservatives of lying, then belittle conservatives, then state that Progressive lying is inconsequential.

A good example of this process in Obama care.
1. the lie, people will be able to keep their coverage.
2. there are no death panels
3. media lapdogs such as ABC, NBC, CNN, and even PHYSORG call conservative who point out the obvious lies as liars.
4. then they say yea, a few people losing healthcare isn't important
5. then the media lapdogs ignore the fact people are losing healthcare.



For you, every day is Projection Day.
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
goracle, so you are saying Obama didn't lie about people being able to keep their health care policies.

http://www.foxnew...e-plans/

What about the death panels?
http://www.realcl...els.html
goracle
1 / 5 (11) Nov 26, 2013
goracle, so you are saying Obama didn't lie about people being able to keep their health care policies.

http://www.foxnew...e-plans/

Put words in mouths and spew tired old nonsense all you want. Only the echo chamber around you makes you think people are listening.
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
goracle, simple yes or no. Did Obama lie about people being able to keep their heath insurance plans?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 26, 2013
goracle, simple yes or no. Did Obama lie about people being able to keep their heath insurance plans?
Godlover, simple yes or no. Did god lie about the flood and the exodus and the genocidal joshuan rampage and solomons kingdom and rabbits having cuds?
freethinking
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 26, 2013
Love it Otto, you progressives will not say Obama lied.... can't bring yourselves to say it can you even when the evidence is there for all to see....
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Love it Otto, you progressives will not say Obama lied.... can't bring yourselves to say it can you even when the evidence is there for all to see....

BHO is the 'progressive's' god and is perfect.
"Barack Obama promised he was going to be a transformational president. He was going to be for progressives what Ronald Reagan was for conservatives. And we now see that his basic program, his legacy program, his great achievement is becoming increasingly a great disaster and a great failure. So I think it is not only again the president that's got a problem, it is the philosophy of the Democratic party "
http://www.realcl...ves.html
freethinking
2 / 5 (17) Nov 26, 2013
Progressives lie to promote their agenda. Here is an example of someone lying trying to promote the gay agenda.....
http://www.thebla...e-it-up/

Oh wait, this comes on the heals of the revelation that the Matt-Shepard hate-crime story was bogus.

I remember a story where a gay activist who claimed someone attacked her and carved something on her flesh.... she did it herself

Or what about the gay activist who has their garage spray painted.... oh yea, it was the activist who did it....

Progressives and lies.... just go together

TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (6) Nov 26, 2013
you progressives will not say Obama lied
Of course he lied. The people who wrote your book also lied when they said all those things happened when they knew they didnt, didnt they?

Nazareth didnt even exist when jesus was supposed to have lived there.

"Now, we know that a group of 'priestly' families resettled an area in the Nazareth valley after their defeat in the Bar Kochbar War of 135 AD (see above). It seems highly probable that they were Evyonim-Nosrim and named their village 'Nazareth' or the village of 'The Poor' either because of self-pity or because doctrinally they made a virtue out of their poverty."
http://www.jesusn...eth.html

-Lie lie lie. Obamas a religious man isnt he? He lies for the Greater Good just like your phoney little godman.
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
Here is a question for PHYSORG, Since 5-15 million people have or are going to lose their health care insurance, and next year most likely 100 million additional people are going to loose their health insurance, why isn't it a big health story?

Also, Obamacare website, with security flaws, with design flaws, and political interference and corruption rampant with it, how come barely a mention of it?

Are the editors of Physorg scared that Obama will order a DOJ probe against them like the DOJ did to other reporters? Are the editors afraid the IRS will audit them? Or are they just on the payroll of Obama like WEBMD?
arq
1 / 5 (10) Nov 26, 2013
@anti,


Let me rephrase my earlier comment.English isnt my first language, i probably used the wrong choice of words. What i meant by that comment to say was.....i am not saying what i said just because religions are saying so.

See you tomorrow, its late night in my country.
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (18) Nov 26, 2013
@freetard Oh wait, this comes on the heals of the revelation that the Matt-Shepard hate-crime story was bogus.
Are you claiming Matt-Shepard is still alive? Or is your post the product of your mental masturbatinn in your echo chamber exile?
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Nov 26, 2013
It seems like an accident to us, but its all part of the plan.

Correction: YOU WANT it to be part of a plan. This is not the same as "It IS part of a plan". Don't push your psychological inadequacies on the rest of the universe. If you can't cope with reality - fine. But take it elsewhere. This is a science oriented comment section.
English isnt my first language

Neither is it mine. Your wording and meaning are very clear, however.
It's just completely inconsistent nonsense. You're using words and concepts you haven't looked at (because you're taking their meaning to be the exact opposite of their definition). That's not sensible for discourse - and not sensible for building your world view at large. That's just delusional.
(Hint: if you can't derive your view from a rigorous framework to the point where others agree coming from their own rigorous framework - then you're living a delusion)
kochevnik
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 26, 2013
Conservaturd vote down sock puppet list [0 posts] Mrmajestic | niblet | rjx | free1 | super1 | rg3 | ellis2
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (12) Nov 26, 2013
This is a science oriented comment section.

No, it is not when physorg reprints AP stories about a political debate.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (9) Nov 26, 2013
Yeah, I really don't know what to say to someone who is absolutely convinced they're right and things have to be taught THEIR WAY and their way only. I don't get that mindset, I don't care to, and I'm not even going to try to. Just like I'm not going to try to "get" someone who thinks there is some magical man in the ether out there looking out for them if they behave and believe the "right" way.

I want to live in a pluralistic society, for about a hundred different very good reasons I won't name here, because if you don't already know them you likely never will or can't be told what/why they are...you can only learn those lessons by living. If you're for banning ideas, and you think your way is the only way to do things then you and I have a FUNDAMENTAL difference in core beliefs. We're not going to agree, we're not even going to be able to have a discussion if you have that kind of mindset and world view.

Best of luck with your attempts to control other people and the world.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Koch for your edification

http://www.advoca...ll-wrong
http://www.thegua...ing-book

But then the news media became quite when the trial of Davis Don Carpenter, 38, and Joshua Macave Brown, 22, from Benton County, Ark., participated in the rape and murder of Jesse Dirkhising, a 13-year-old from Prairie Grove. Brown strapped the boy to a mattress and stuffed underwear in his mouth, held in place with a bandanna, and repeatedly sodomized him while Carpenter watched. The boy died from asphyxiation.

So the Progressive media perpetrated and embellished the myth of a supposed hate crime of Matt Shepard because that story promoted the Gay Agenda, yet buried the story of the murder of Jesse Dirkhising because the story hurts the Gay Agenda.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (10) Nov 26, 2013


Indoctrination is not free speech.


That's your opinion that it's indoctrination and that it's not free speech. The United States Government, and its supreme court disagree. Them's the breaks...

When did the US government and it's Supreme Court determine jurisprudence around the world?


Never, though some of the more ignorant justices on the panel have cited international law in their interpretations of the constitution. Your point sir?
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (10) Nov 26, 2013
Religious teaching should be restricted to adults only.


Should be restricted? So your beliefs can't stand on their own merits

Do you understand that in the case of indoctrination the child wouldn't have been exposed to his beliefs? Or in fact any other belief for that matter. So your comments doesn't make sense.


I was "indoctrinated" as a child. I'm an atheist. so your comments not only don't make sense but are patently false. Moreover your belief that reason can only prevail at the point of a gun is one of the biggest philosophical contradictions one can care to imagine...period.

Further still, if you allow the principle into law that teaching things can be restricted BY LAW you're unsheathing such an obviously huge double edged sword one wonders how you could possibly think past your own boxed and completely false sense of intellectual security.
kochevnik
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Koch for your edification
Fine, but gays attacking wasn't the issue. It was an issue of a minority being attacked. You would get better responses if you followed the topic

Note my country bans gay propaganda, but we have negative population growth. Once growth is positive I think the law should be reviewed
ellis2
3 / 5 (4) Nov 26, 2013
Koch for your edification
Fine, but gays attacking wasn't the issue. It was an issue of a minority being attacked. You would get better responses if you followed the topic

Note my country bans gay propaganda, but we have negative population growth. Once growth is positive I think the law should be reviewed


Looks like it's time for for our daily hate filled rant from Kochevnik. Today his bigotry is directed at homosexuals. Other days it's directed at Jews and Christians. Where did you ever get the idea you're some type of progressive? Progressives are for tolerance. Lets face it, you would love to be be out there marching with the Russian ultra-nationalists, except they're just as prejudiced against Muslims like you as you are with anyone who is different from you.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Saying a Progressives is tolerant is like saying you can Trust Obama.

http://politicalh...lerance/
http://www.abc.ne...6281.htm
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Even Iran says BHO lies.

"Iranian officials say that the White House is misleading the public about the details of an interim nuclear agreement reached over the weekend in Geneva."
http://freebeacon...ke-deal/
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
For Otto and the other atheists,

Any responses about the Incoherence of Atheism
http://www.youtub...TlDn4PiU
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (15) Nov 26, 2013
Are Atheists Immoral?

Interesting answer.
http://www.youtub...G2GGCk2Y
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 27, 2013
Are Atheists Immoral?
Reason is amoral
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (18) Nov 27, 2013
Fine, but gays attacking wasn't the issue. It was an issue of a minority being attacked. You would get better responses if you followed the topic

Note my country bans gay propaganda, but we have negative population growth. Once growth is positive I think the law should be reviewed


Looks like it's time for for our daily hate filled rant from Kochevnik. Today his bigotry is directed at homosexuals. Other days it's directed at Jews and Christians. Where did you ever get the idea you're some type of progressive? Progressives are for tolerance. Lets face it, you would love to be be out there marching with the Russian ultra-nationalists, except they're just as prejudiced against Muslims like you as you are with anyone who is different from you.
My best friends are Muslims. Gf a Jew. Russia has a long history of integration with Islam, with the religion defining 27% of the population You need to stop sexting your sister, delete the sockpuppets and get a passport
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (21) Nov 27, 2013
Conservaturd sock puppet collection now comprises Mrmajestic | open | niblet | Nikolaus | Colombe | Father Brrenk | Blotto | Ballerina | ellis2
VendicarE
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
"Interesting answer." - FreeTardO

Not particularly, since the questions were never answered by anything more than an appeal to a false authority.

Also because the question asked and answered were not the question you pose.

The problem with questions of morality of course, is that there is no precise definition of what morality is. The definition is nebulous as is it's application.

The initial question to ask about morality, is, "What is it"? and here there is an answer.

Morality is any system of self perpetuating beliefs that are stable over time. The greater the system's stability, the greater is the moral belief system.

Most belief systems will be unstable since they are self contradictory and self defeating.

What remains are legitimate moral systems.

VendicarE
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
"Even Iran says BHO lies." - RyggTard

Suddenly Iran is Tardieboy's best friend. Last week it was his mortal enemy.

He will say anything or agree with anyone as long as it serves his Conservative Goal to destroy his own nation.
VendicarE
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
"Since 5-15 million people have or are going to lose their health care insurance, and next year most likely 100 million additional people are going to loose their health insurance, why isn't it a big health story? - FreeTardO

Oh, that is simple. Your comments are Faux news and are False News.

The insurance Industry is forcing people to alter their plans. No one is losing health care coverage. In fact coverage is mandatory and universal.

Why do you feel a need to spread lies about your own country?

VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 27, 2013
"For Otto and the other atheists," - FreeTardO

Lots of short stories unrelated to the topic at hand, and then peppered with personal opinions that are presented as facts.

Worthless talk.

The basic point of the talk is that there is no foundation for morality without God. One could equally argue that there is no foundation for morality without Buddha, as there are many different foundations for morality.

What makes one superior to any other?

.

nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
I was "indoctrinated" as a child. I'm an atheist. so your comments not only don't make sense but are patently false.

Incorrect.

Your singular experience is not an adequate representative sample.

That you had the privilege of access to additional information sources (Internet, library, decent school, friends of alternate beliefs) doesn't mean all children do.

Although children may recover or not even remember the abuse they suffered does not absolve the crime of that abuse.

Moreover your belief that reason can only prevail at the point of a gun

Please explain how you arrived at this alleged belief of mine?

is one of the biggest philosophical contradictions one can care to imagine...period.

Do you find it ironic then that all civil societies have some form of police and defence force which use weapons to enforce their idea of reason?
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
Further still, if you allow the principle into law that teaching things can be restricted BY LAW

So you don't mind children being taught that if they make a mistake, they are going to burn in hell for eternity? Or taught that if they don't follow the teachings they will be shunned by all their family and friends? Maybe the girl who is taught that women are subservient to men should be happy being a 5th wife with no formal education? What about the suicide bomber who was taught that what he's doing is right? Should an adult be allowed to teach sexual fetishis to their young child?
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (11) Nov 27, 2013
Your singular experience is not an adequate representative sample.


Hardly, at one point in time EVERY human was "indoctrinated" yet you and I stand here. Again patently false and moreover at best ignorant and at worst blatantly dishonest.

Although children may recover or not even remember the abuse they suffered does not absolve the crime of that abuse.


Oh my the DRAMA...puhleeese.

Please explain how you arrived at this alleged belief of mine?


Are you or are you not for banning the teaching of religion to kids? If you are you're using a gun, if not you're using reason.

....all civil societies have some form of police and defence force which use weapons to enforce their idea of reason?

No, because that INCLUDES the idea of plurality, something you (apparently) have great difficulty with. Your difficulty is about you, period. Kindly see to that on your own, and leave those of us who are secure in our beliefs to live without your forced morality.
ellis2
3 / 5 (4) Nov 27, 2013
@kkkochevnik
Attempting to have an honest conversation with a bigot such as yourself would be a total waste of time. Trying to suddenly portray yourself as as a reasonable and tolerant person at this point is ludicrous and one only needs to read your posts to understand the extent of your prejudice. In fact, you and your ilk are the excrement civilization has been trying to scrape off the bottom of our shoes for centuries. We know the results when we're unsuccessful.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
Further still, if you allow the principle into law that teaching things can be restricted BY LAW

So you don't mind children being taught that if they make a mistake, they are going to burn in hell for eternity? Or taught that if they don't follow the teachings they will be shunned by all their family and friends? Maybe the girl who is taught that women are subservient to men should be happy being a 5th wife with no formal education? What about the suicide bomber who was taught that what he's doing is right? Should an adult be allowed to teach sexual fetishis to their young child?

Then you would be opposed to forcing the 1st grade students in Lexington, MA to read homosexual stories, which is against the law if parents don't approve.
arq
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
@anti,

psychological inadequacy?

nonsense?

Why are you getting worked up? Dont get frustrated.
arq
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
@antialias,


And i could say the same thing about you, you dont want to consider it as part of a plan. Just because creation cannot be explained by current science, it doesnt mean it is unscientific. You sound like those people who deny global warming. If some experiments cant explain it, it means global warming isnt happening according to them. They dont consider for a minute the experiments are not developed enough to fully explain global warming and instead assume it isnt happening. Everything that happens in the universe is scientific.... the creation of the universe, evolution etc. Its just that our current scientific tools are not developed enough to fully explain creation.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
So you don't mind children being taught that if they make a mistake, they are going to burn in hell for eternity? Or taught that if they don't follow the teachings they will be shunned by all their family and friends? Maybe the girl who is taught that women are subservient to men should be happy being a 5th wife with no formal education? ...


First of all we have compulsory education in this country. Are you talking about Western Democracies or third world dictatorships I'm not sure you know the difference. Secondly do I mind? Yes I do. Does my discomfort mean I get to dictate what religion people do or do not teach their children? No. Why do you think that your discomfort and your fears justify your calls for repressing your fellow citizens values?

I'm not speaking to the rest of the quote because it's so innane and obviously apples to oranges it's not even worthy of discussion.
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Nov 27, 2013
at one point in time EVERY human was "indoctrinated"

Agreed, though to varying degrees.

yet you and I stand here.

Two is hardly a better sample than one, especially when the sample size is everyone.

Although children may recover or not even remember the abuse they suffered does not absolve the crime of that abuse.

Oh my the DRAMA...puhleeese.

If you respond like a child you will be treated like one.

Are you or are you not for banning the teaching of religion to kids? If you are you're using a gun, if not you're using reason.

I'm against the indoctrination of kids.

No, because that INCLUDES the idea of plurality,

So it's not the biggest contradiction period, but only a contradiction in some cases?

leave those of us who are secure in our beliefs to live without your forced morality.

Sure thing, as long as you give your children the same courtesy.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
I'm against the indoctrination of kids.

What do you propose to do about it that doesn't require the use of force to impose your views?
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
Is this indoctrination?
"Bloomberg's Mayors Group Gives Kids Gun Control Placemats for Thanksgiving "
http://www.breitb...ksgiving
Modernmystic
1.2 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013

Two is hardly a better sample than one, especially when the sample size is everyone.


And yet here you and I and every other atheist and agnostic on the planet stand.

If you respond like a child you will be treated like one.


Pot, meet kettle..

I'm against the indoctrination of kids.


Well then we might as well throw out ALL culture, because it's ALL made up...including language. So we can't really teach kids anything but Math, and we'll all have to sit down and agree that base 10 vs base 6 isn't indoctrination. See how it's just your opinion now?

So it's not the biggest contradiction period, but only a contradiction in some cases?


No, since reason includes plurality by definition it's not "someones idea" of it, it actually IS reason. Choice is axiomatic in allowing for reason.

Sure thing, as long as you give your children the same courtesy.


I did. So now you can quit advocating :)
nowhere
1 / 5 (2) Nov 27, 2013
First of all we have compulsory education in this country.

And yet Mormons, among others, don't get this education.

Are you talking about Western Democracies or third world dictatorships

Should child abuse be treated differently depending on one's country?

Why do you think that your discomfort and your fears justify your calls for repressing your fellow citizens values?

Because repressed children need someone to stand up for them. Children have rights too you know.

I'm not speaking to the rest of the quote because it's so innane and obviously apples to oranges it's not even worthy of discussion.

Unfortunately your ideas of allowing parents to have cart blanch rights to teach their children as they please has the unfortunate side effect of those apples and oranges you wish to ignore. Not discussing abuse doesn't make it go away.
Modernmystic
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
And yet Mormons, among others, don't get this education.


Yes they do. It just doesn't meet your personal seal of approval.

Should child abuse be treated differently depending on one's country?


It's your opinion it's child abuse, and yes they are apples and oranges because in one society they are allowed the possibility to learn otherwise in the other they are not.

Because repressed children need someone to stand up for them. Children have rights too you know.


You don't define children's rights. You just don't. And your fears don't an argument make and never will...

Unfortunately your ideas of allowing parents to have cart blanch rights to teach their children as they please has the unfortunate side effect of those apples and oranges you wish to ignore. Not discussing abuse doesn't make it go away.


No one said anything about cart blanch...that's YOU inserting your opinion again.
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (16) Nov 27, 2013
Well then we might as well throw out ALL culture, because it's ALL made up...including language. So we can't really teach kids anything but Math, and we'll all have to sit down and agree that base 10 vs base 6 isn't indoctrination. See how it's just your opinion now?
I only see quotes like that in America, where stupid and smart are somehow on equal pedestal and smart students in schools are disparaged
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (11) Nov 27, 2013
I only see quotes like that in America, where stupid and smart are somehow on equal footing and smart students in schools are disparaged

I only see quotes like that from bigots where it's irrelevant if your "stupid" or "smart" because you've got much bigger problems...
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 27, 2013
VD. 1. Obama knew and designed Obamacare to force 5-15 million people (myself included) to loose our healthcare.

But since you as all Progressive Atheist do not have any Moral Absolutes, lies and deceit are ok if it furthers your cause.

Ravi gives a good explanation of what happens when you have no Moral Absolutes: http://www.youtub...B7755DA9
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
Give us an example of a moral absolute Free...

nowhere
3 / 5 (2) Nov 27, 2013
I'm against the indoctrination of kids.


Well then we might as well throw out ALL culture, because it's ALL made up...including language. So we can't really teach kids anything but Math, and we'll all have to sit down and agree that base 10 vs base 6 isn't indoctrination. See how it's just your opinion now?

Strawman. I'm not against education only indoctrination.

It[indoctrination] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively
Modernmystic
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
Strawman. I'm not against education only indoctrination.


Teaching kids English instead of Native American is considered indoctrination by some people.

Education IS indoctrination at its basic level. It's giving us the rules we agree on to be able to live in society. These rules are all relative, since they are all relative one man's education is another's indoctrination. I can't help you if you can't see that far out of your worldview.

As to your definition you aren't following it because you don't want kids to be taught religion. You want them to "not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned" by forced secular education. Can't have your cake and eat it...
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 27, 2013
And yet Mormons, among others, don't get this education.

Mormons do receive a pretty good education in UT and other Mormon communities.
Mormons are obligated to a two year mission, self funded, all over the world. Many do this after high school graduation traveling all over the world and learning the local languages and cultures. This is why the SLC area is a significant hub of international businesses.
kochevnik
1.8 / 5 (18) Nov 27, 2013
Education IS indoctrination at its basic level.
Facts and knowledge are not indoctrination. Not everything is a belief, despite your determination to be a hammerhead
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (11) Nov 27, 2013
Education IS indoctrination at its basic level.
Facts and knowledge are not indoctrination. Not everything is a belief, despite your determination to be a hammerhead

If you refuse to allow another perspective to be heard it IS indoctrination by definition. Whether or not they are facts. And yes FTR I don't think we need to provide an alternative mode of thought on every single thing we learn, but not allowing the possibility by law and force is obliterating the choice. The whole point is that you get to think critically on your own. Despite your determination to be a fascist.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
Education IS indoctrination at its basic level.
Facts and knowledge are not indoctrination. Not everything is a belief, despite your determination to be a hammerhead

Of course it is a belief because humans are not and can not be purely objective. Perception is reality.
kochevnik
1.3 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
If you refuse to allow another perspective to be heard it IS indoctrination by definition.
I agree given the perspective is self-consistent. Hoverer you muddled thoughts and overlapping distinctions don't amount to a sober perspective
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
If you refuse to allow another perspective to be heard it IS indoctrination by definition.
I agree given the perspective is self-consistent. Hoverer you muddled thoughts and overlapping distinctions don't amount to a sober perspective

Well thank you. However, quite frankly and no animosity intended at all if you told me you thought my perspective WAS sober I'd be worried....
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 27, 2013
Of course it is a belief because humans are not and can not be purely objective
This is why we need machines to do the thinking for us.
Perception is reality
No, you might never perceive the piano that falls on your head. Reality is Independent of perception, which is what you in fact said in the first part of your statement. The scientific method is a way of separating the influence of perception from reality.
Give us an example of a moral absolute
The first absolute was 'that which enabled you to survive to reproduce'. But as humans became tribal their absolute morality was 'anything that strengthened your tribe or weakened the enemies of your tribe'.

Religion was able to exploit the tribal dynamic and extend it over many disparate tribes and regions. But 'internal altruism in conjunction with external animosity' was still the absolute morality.
cont>
freethinking
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 27, 2013
Funny thing about Progressives, they lie, then lie about lying....
a group calling itself "non partisan" getting $1,100,000 from Obama to promote "positive stories" about Obamacare

http://capitolcit...america/

Meanwhile the Progressive media which PHYSORG is a part of has been ignoring as much as possible the fiasco is now trying to come up with positive spins.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 27, 2013
Today, western culture has extended the tribal dynamic to the entire species. We can all perceive ourselves as members of the tribe of humanity. And so absolute morality can be considered in terms of the entire species. 'Whatever threatens the species with extinction' is absolutely immoral. Morality can be derived from this absolute valuation.

For instance degrading the environment threatens the species and is thus immoral. Not waging war against cultures which threaten the survival of the species, is also immoral. Teaching children that fantasy beyond recreation has some value also threatens the species and is thus, immoral.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 27, 2013
Is this a racist comment of Sarah Palin "Just looking at faces I could tell there were some folks who are here not because they were born here but because they want to be here, and they bring extraordinary talents to the United States, and that's part of what makes America special."

If it is, why?
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013

For instance degrading the environment threatens the species and is thus immoral.


Untrue, more and more we're becoming less reliant on the biosphere of the Earth and more and more on technology.

So provisionally true, but eventually false.

Not waging war against cultures which threaten the survival of the species, is also immoral.


Then we have the problem of opinions of which ones actually do that and which ones don't.

Teaching children that fantasy beyond recreation has some value also threatens the species and is thus, immoral.


In your opinion.
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (18) Nov 27, 2013
Otto, is degrading the environment include removing a unwanted tree? for example if I have a neighbor who has a very tall dying tree on their property which could topple over in the next storm possibly damaging my home, or it may not topple over for many years to come or fall in a different direction. However because they are environmentalists they do not want to remove the tree because there is a raccoon and squirrel family living in it and do not want to degrade the environment.

Is it moral for them not to remove it?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 27, 2013
Re absolute immorality, here is a recent example
In the grand scheme of things, we're just a blip on the screen, and it won't matter in the long run if we kill ourselves by our own hand... telekinetic
Pretty smelly eh?
Untrue, more and more we're becoming less reliant on the biosphere
You mean less true. Humans are capable of ruining their environment to the extent that they will no longer be able to sustain their technological civilization. This may be a state that we can never recover from.

Given enough time, a planetwide extinction event is inevitable. Therefore our moral imperative is to establish independent colonies off-planet. If our civilization collapses we may never get the chance to do this again.
which ones actually do that and which ones don't
It is very clear. The cultures whose tribal morality is based on outgrowing and overrunning their neighbors, are a threat to the species. 'Be fruitful and multiply; fill up the earth' - is an obscenity.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Nov 27, 2013
Otto, is degrading the environment include removing a unwanted troll
Entertaining your bullshit is immoral and degrading.
In your opinion
No, you know this is not just my opinion.
http://en.wikiped...religion
http://www.youtub...TVUulGwc
http://www.youtub...McTeLbes
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
You mean less true.


Nope I meant more true. It won't be long before we can set up self sustaining colonies on other planets, or even just in space itself. Earth is irrelevant to our long term survival.

It is very clear.


I'm sure it is to you. The rest of the world may differ...

No, you know this is not just my opinion.


No, it's one of the few things I can say I'm completely certain of. I may not like religion...no I loathe most of them, but we've had them for ages and survived. Regardless there is no absolute objective morality outside of your own mind because morality itself is a human created fiction. Nature could care less if we survive or don't as a species.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 27, 2013
Nope I meant more true.
So you are saying that humans could totally destroy the biosphere which replenishes the atmosphere and still sustain the level of civilization necessary to colonize other worlds?
The rest of the world may differ...
I posted some LINKS for you. I expect you to use them.
we've had them for ages and survived
We have only recently developed the ability to destroy all life on this planet. Religionist regimes that favor death more than life are trying to gain this capability. Religion now threatens the species and so is immoral.

"UNITED NATIONS, May 10 (Xinhua) -- The United Nations on Monday painted a "dire" picture of Planet Earth's state of biodiversity, warning that countries should either address it quickly or face the irreversible losses... massive further loss of biodiversity is becoming increasingly likely, and with it, a severe reduction of many essential services to human societies as several "tipping points" are approached."
goracle
1.7 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
Strawman. I'm not against education only indoctrination.


Teaching kids English instead of Native American is considered indoctrination by some people.

It certainly can be, when their own languages are simultaneously discouraged, directly or indirectly. That creates a two-tier hierarchy, with the natives very clearly on the lower level.
goracle
1.7 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
Is this a racist comment of Sarah Palin "Just looking at faces I could tell there were some folks who are here not because they were born here but because they want to be here, and they bring extraordinary talents to the United States, and that's part of what makes America special."

If it is, why?

She's assuming that she can identify someone's place of birth by what their face looks like (code for skin tone, epicanthic folds, etc.). The odds are good that some of the ones she assumes are foreign born were either born in the USA or came here when they were children who were too young to have any say in the decision. Chinese, for example, have been in North America since the 1800s in significant numbers. I know indigenous people who have been told to 'go back' because some idiot assumed that they were immigrants from Asia. More than that, it is exploiting someone's race and presumed immigrant status for a political point.
Modernmystic
1.2 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
So you are saying that humans could totally destroy the biosphere which replenishes the atmosphere and still sustain the level of civilization necessary to colonize other worlds?


If we can create self sustaining colonies without a biosphere elsewhere we can do it here is what I'm saying. Self evident, the ability to do one requires the ability to do the other.

I posted some LINKS for you. I expect you to use them.


You want me to post links for you about what? Peoples opinions on which countries are dangerous? Will that make a difference to you? If so why?

We have only recently developed the ability to destroy all life on this planet.


We still haven't done that. We can get into that debate, but not on this thread. Take that one to PMs if you wish.
Modernmystic
1.2 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
The United Nations on Monday painted a "dire" picture of Planet Earth's state of biodiversity, warning that countries should either address it quickly or face the irreversible losses... massive further loss of biodiversity is becoming increasingly likely, and with it, a severe reduction of many essential services to human societies as several "tipping points" are approached


Decreasing biodiversity doesn't necessarily mean human beings go away. We've had "devastating" mass extinctions on this planet many times. The climate and life survived them all. In fact I'd say that as far as human survival goes biodiversity is one of the least concerning factors.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
If not for mass extinctions in the past, it is likely humans would not exist.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) Nov 27, 2013
If we can create self sustaining colonies without a biosphere elsewhere we can do it here is what I'm saying
I understand that but in order to GET elsewhere we need our level of tech as-is. All the mining, refining, high-tech manufacturing, energy, programming, transportation, infrastructure, education, housing, defense, etc etc. All of it.

It will take an enormous amount of effort to establish self-sustaining colonies in space or on other planets. It will take our entire civilization functioning as it is now to do it.

We could perhaps sustain a survival colony here but we would not be able to go anywhere.
We still haven't done that
Within a gen or 2. Cobalt nukes, pandemics, impactors.
If not for mass extinctions in the past, it is likely humans would not exist.
The flood never happened. Get over it.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Nov 27, 2013
I understand that but in order to GET elsewhere we need our level of tech as-is. All the mining, refining, high-tech manufacturing, energy, programming, transportation, infrastructure, education, housing, defense, etc etc. All of it.


Agreed. Actually it needs to be about 50-100 years ahead of where we are now. Once we hit that level of technology though we're free from the biosphere entirely, moreover we'd likely be able to engineer it ourselves.

Within a gen or 2. Cobalt nukes, pandemics, impactors.


Nukes not so much unless I'm not privy to some information. Impactors, yes. We live at the bottom of a deep gravity well. Build a base on the Moon and for a limited investment in energy you can turn the crust of the planet to slag just by throwing big rocks.

obama_socks
1 / 5 (13) Nov 27, 2013
Clearly, there is NO SUCH THING as a "tribal dynamic", whether in the U.S. or Europe. There is only attention given to the diversity of popular culture, languages, organized religions (including atheism), propagandizing Socialism through the educational system, and the social dynamics of the culture of the Economic Parasites which are akin to Vampires who desperately suck the wealth from those who have EARNED their wealth and use that wealth without having earned even a penny of it. Socialism enables Economic Vampirism

The truly needy and the infirm and disabled who are unable to work for a living are often disregarded, I.E. War Veterans having to wait months before being tested for cancer.

There are only individuals who are more or less loyal to their family and friends, but as to the larger society and the belief in the preservation of their nation through ensuring that the nation's constitutional laws are observed and preserved, a large part of the citizenry couldn't care less.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
If not for mass extinctions in the past, it is likely humans would not exist.
- rygg2 -
The flood never happened. Get over it.
- Otto -

Uh - I think rygg2 was referring to mass extinctions of...like, dinosaurs?

I see that OttoBlotto is still stuck firmly in his anti-Bible wankery...but that's to be expected.

Actually, the demise of the big dinosaurs enabled the smaller creatures to get a foothold and evolve into...biodiversity. Aren't we lucky?

For the record...I do believe that evolution has occurred and is probably still occurring. Otto's is a good example of wayward evolution for his inability to accept religionists for the good that they do. There is still no evidence that Christians and Jews are trying to overgrow and outrun, (or is that overrun and outgrow) the rest of humanity?

Christians and Jews don't compete with other religions to see how much more children they can produce. After all, pure economics gets in the way. If you can't afford more.
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 27, 2013
goracle, the person who actually just made the statement "Just looking at faces I could tell there were some folks who are here not because they were born here but because they want to be here, and they bring extraordinary talents to the United States, and that's part of what makes America special."

Was none other than Obama..... If Sarah Palin said that, she would have been ridiculed and accused of exploiting someone's race and presumed immigrant status for a political point.

So since it was Obama who said that, do you stand by your point that HE is exploiting someone's race and presumed immigrant status for a political point?
freethinking
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 27, 2013
Is this more Proof that Progressives who control the media will not report on anything that hurts their agenda?

http://cnsnews.co...-accuser

freethinking
1.5 / 5 (17) Nov 27, 2013
But there is hope, Data released Tuesday shows the Obama supporting Communist News Network commonly known as CNN shedding 48 percent of total viewers since last November and Obama news outlet Must Say Nothing Bad about obama Channel sometimes known as MSNBC dropping 45 percent.

The numbers were even worse in the all important demographic of people aged 25 to 54 as CNN's ratings dropped 59 percent and MSNBC's 52 percent.

Maybe America is wising up on all the lies spewing forth from these channels? Maybe America is getting tired of not getting the whole story?
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
WOW!! freethinking gets all 5's from me for that catch.

Obama only has to look at faces to blah-blah-blooey. He can tell about all these strangers just by looking at their faces what and who they are, and whether or not they bring their talents?

OMG...isn't that called "PROFILING"? Isn't profiling people by their appearance against the law in these United States?

So in essence, Barack Hussein Obama is an outright RACIST as well as judgmental over who might be extraordinarily talented or not.

kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (15) Nov 27, 2013
Is this more Proof that Progressives who control the media will not report on anything that hurts their agenda?
Why what happened to your Lush Rimjob and Glenn Junkie Beck?
kochevnik
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 27, 2013
Obama only has to look at faces to blah-blah-blooey. He can tell about all these strangers just by looking at their faces what and who they are, and whether or not they bring their talents?
Actually it was shown at Ellis Island that children developed malformed skulls in America while their parents did not. American dies causes epigenetic changes and yes they are easily distinguished by the trained eye. My gf noted these peculiar skulls of the Americans as they are abnormal
goracle
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 27, 2013
Here is a question for PHYSORG, Since 5-15 million people have or are going to lose their health care insurance, and next year most likely 100 million additional people are going to loose their health insurance, why isn't it a big health story?

Also, Obamacare website, with security flaws, with design flaws, and political interference and corruption rampant with it, how come barely a mention of it?

Are the editors of Physorg scared that Obama will order a DOJ probe against them like the DOJ did to other reporters? Are the editors afraid the IRS will audit them? Or are they just on the payroll of Obama like WEBMD?

Yeah, why don't they mention things of a political nature that have nothing to do with the topic. Aren't they supposed to help you disguise your inability to present and defend a rational argument with valid evidence? You clearly need the help.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (13) Nov 28, 2013
Obama only has to look at faces to blah-blah-blooey. He can tell about all these strangers just by looking at their faces what and who they are, and whether or not they bring their talents?
Actually it was shown at Ellis Island that children developed malformed skulls in America while their parents did not. American dies causes epigenetic changes and yes they are easily distinguished by the trained eye. My gf noted these peculiar skulls of the Americans as they are abnormal
- kochevnik the kvetcher -

Ellis Island was the port of entrance to the U.S. via New York. Images of children and their parents coming to America from Europe showed that most of the immigrants were looking unhealthy and had cooties and had to be quarantined before they were allowed into the U.S.
You seem to forget or did not know that all these foreigners brought their own diets (cuisine) with them and most rejected the truly nourishing American diet. Europeans arriving in America were
(contd)
obama_socks
1 / 5 (13) Nov 28, 2013
(contd)
mostly unkempt, having traveled in steerage under deplorable conditions and had left their own countries due to nasty conditions such as religious and political persecution, or were being hounded for other reasons. They came to America with practically nothing, and many of them became wealthy or at least middle class after awhile. The ambitious immigrants worked hard and saved their money and educated their kids, and finally were successful. While others became poor and bitter about it, or turned to a life of crime.

People from Europe and Asia came here for a better life. What kind of life did Russians have under Stalin and your other dictators? They got the shaft, in my opinion.

And now you bad mouth the U.S.

People come here from all over the world for a better life...and they most often find it. But only if they are willing to work hard for it. America is not an easy ride, and shouldn't be. This country was wild when we came here and we tamed it. Love it or leave it.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (11) Nov 28, 2013
contd
Unfortunately, America has a segment of the population living with the old slave mentality left over from centuries of slavery where they don't want to accept responsibility for their own actions, and they want the gubmint to take care of them from cradle to grave. A lot of White Americans have the slave mentality too.

Welfare checks were only supposed to be a temporary aid until a person got a job and could take care of him or herself. It wasn't supposed to be for life, but Socialists/Progressives have enabled the Wealth Vampires to continue their dependence on taxpayer money and sit on their behinds while they laugh at Americans who got out every day and work their butts off to pay their taxes to support these Vampires and keep them happy.

They don't work; but they do bitch a lot about "rich" people. They are no longer required to look for a job, but they complain that they don't have enough money.

They are American Economic Vampires and they are sucking our blood.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (12) Nov 28, 2013
@koch

I am an American by birth, and a Texan by the grace of God. Most creationists teach their children about God and the stories in the Bible. But that is to be expected, and it is their right and obligation as parents to do this. When a child becomes a man or a woman, they have the option of forming their own opinions and making their own choices regarding the path they will take. But a child's mind is a clean slate and needs proper instruction from his parents first before the state is able to mess with his mind. That includes evolution. Some creationists, like me, actually believe that evolution is a natural occurrence. And other creationists don't believe in it and think that the Earth is only ~7,000 yrs old. But, as long as nobody is getting beaten or killed or bullied, I have no problem with it and no one else should either.
goracle
1.4 / 5 (11) Nov 28, 2013
Yes, ObamaSocks, the "truly nourishing" American diet that let's so many American's leave behind the obsolete 'walking' method of personal motion for the superior 'rolling' method.
goracle
1.4 / 5 (10) Nov 28, 2013
goracle, the person who actually just made the statement "Just looking at faces I could tell there were some folks who are here not because they were born here but because they want to be here, and they bring extraordinary talents to the United States, and that's part of what makes America special."

Was none other than Obama..... If Sarah Palin said that, she would have been ridiculed and accused of exploiting someone's race and presumed immigrant status for a political point.

So since it was Obama who said that, do you stand by your point that HE is exploiting someone's race and presumed immigrant status for a political point?

I said that it could be that. Either one could be, or not, depending on the context. You carefully stripped the context away. What I said was one plausible response to your question. There are contexts where Palin would not be racist if she said that, such as at an immigrant organization, where the assumption would make sense.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (12) Nov 28, 2013
Yes, ObamaSocks, the "truly nourishing" American diet that let's so many American's leave behind the obsolete 'walking' method of personal motion for the superior 'rolling' method.
- goracle -

Dammit Gor...when did you turn into Mooochelle Obama? Are you now the hamburger and fries police? The truly nourishing American diet I referred to was meat, potatoes and lots of vegetables. And back in those days of Ellis Island, the work was hard and Americans didn't have time to sit around watching the game on TV. There was, after all, no TV.

There were very few fat people back then, not like now. But overeating and getting fat is a choice - like smoking or doing illegal drugs. If you do it, there are consequences.

Re: what Obama said about looking at faces indicates that he has a special case of "soft" racism, much like how Blacks call each other the "N" word, but it's acceptable because they don't really mean it in a derogatory way. But Obama is still a racist.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (12) Nov 28, 2013
@goracle

We were talking about the foreigners who came through Ellis Island in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They brought their own recipes and didn't eat the meat, potatoes and vegetables that were part of American meals. They had their own tastes. But in those days, there were very few fat people. The work was hard. No washing machines and no TV. And the kind of foods we eat now in the 21st century was unheard of back then.

But becoming fat is a choice just like smoking or using illegal drugs, and those choices have consequences. But you already knew that, right?

Re: what Obama said about looking at faces. He's a racist, pure and simple. He said it and he can't get out of it, and if you make excuses for Obama, then YOU are a racist too.
OK...he's a "soft" racist, mainly because he didn't say it in a derogatory way. But, he is still a racist...and he was profiling as he looked at their faces. No matter how you prefer it, OBAMA IS A RACIST.
Hey...my other comment showed up
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"If not for mass extinctions in the past, it is likely humans would not exist." - RyggTard

Hence by TardieBoy's fascist logic, Genocide is a good thing.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
""Just looking at faces I could tell there were some folks who are here not because they were born here but because they want to be here, and they bring extraordinary talents to the United States, and that's part of what makes America special." - Sarah Palin

She just don't want any more of of them dirty Mexicans into her white power country.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"Is it moral for them not to remove it?" - FreeTardO

Your question is not a moral one that has no applicability to morality.

Since you ask such a question it is clear that you haven't got a clue as to what morality is, or what is or is not moral.

VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 28, 2013

FreeTardo is caught lying yet again.

"a group calling itself "non partisan" getting $1,100,000 from Obama to promote "positive stories" about Obamacare"- FreeTardO

From his own link....

"Families USA (FUSA) - was given a $1.1 million grant by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation on October 4, 2013, to gather "success stories" of Americans dealing with Obamacare"

The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation isn't OBAMA, and hence FreeTardO's statement that the money came from OBAMA is a flat out lie.

Conservatives are like that. They lie with every breath.

I have never encountered a Conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

http://capitolcit...america/
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
FreeTardO --"VD. 1. Obama knew and designed Obamacare to force 5-15 million people (myself included) to loose our healthcare."

No one has lost their healthcare. Once again you are lying.

What you have lost is your specific health care plan. You may either purchase another one, or use the default government plan, and pay the fee.

Why do you have such a strong need to tell lie after lie, after lie.

You must be demented.

VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 28, 2013

"Ravi gives a good explanation of what happens when you have no Moral Absolutes: http://www.youtub...B7755DA9" - FreeTardO

And yet you believe that murdering in self defense or committing murder to punish someone for committing crimes is moral.

Moral Relativism is epidemic in American Christianity.

So is porn consumption, child abuse, and teen pregnancy.

Even your so called savior was born from an act of rape.

Is rape moral? Or is it only moral when committed by your God?

VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Nov 28, 2013
"For Otto and the other atheists," - FreeTardO

Lots of short stories unrelated to the topic at hand, and then peppered with personal opinions that are presented as facts.

Worthless talk.

The basic point of the talk is that there is no foundation for morality without God. One could equally argue that there is no foundation for morality without Buddha, as there are many different foundations for morality.

What makes one superior to any other?

nowhere
2.5 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
Yes they do. It just doesn't meet your personal seal of approval.

My mistake. I meant the Armish.

in one society they are allowed the possibility to learn...

Do you understand that indoctrination can easily destroy a childs reasoning ability? When one is conditioned to rely on faith over facts and reason, learning becomes dysfunctional.

You don't define children's rights. You just don't.

No not me personally, but rather society as a whole.

And your fears don't an argument make and never will...

Your rage does not an argument counter.

No one said anything about cart blanch...

...leave those of us who are secure in our beliefs to live without your forced morality.

You want every household to be able to live according to it's values based on it's belief structure without any forced morality. But you also don't think the parents should have cart blanch rights over the children in that household? Please explain.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 28, 2013
When one is conditioned to rely on faith over facts and reason, learning becomes dysfunctional.

You are describing the US k-12 socialist govt run school system.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 28, 2013
"Uwe and Hannelore Romeike fled to the United States in 2008 with their family after being threatened with thousands of dollars in fines and possible jail time in Germany because they choose to homeschool their children.

Michael Donnelly, HSLDA's Director for International Affairs, observed that Germany's treatment of homeschooling families violates its treaty obligations and contradicts basic human rights standards.

"Germany is a party to numerous international treaties," Donnelly said. "Those treaties and fundamental international human rights standards recognize the role of parents in selecting the kind of education their children should receive. Banning this entire form of education violates those treaties and the rights of all German parents." "
http://www.breitb...Petition
bluehigh
1.8 / 5 (14) Nov 28, 2013
A good example of how Capitalism has destroyed the cultural adhesion and morality of Americans


Oh, only Americans? I look around and see it destroying civilisation. Even my own morality and ethics are corrupted. What team do you choose? The winning team?

Integrity and common sense lost in a frenzy of greed and In this case religious zealotry.

ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 28, 2013
"Religion was not the "opiate of the people," intended to keep them in line. It was, rather, to keep the government in line. This was not a revolutionary idea; it predated the American Constitution, certainly. As Francis Fukuyama writes in The Origins of Political Order: "The existence of a separate religious authority accustomed rulers to the idea that they were not the ultimate source of the law. The assertion of Frederic Maitland that no English king ever believed that he was above the law could not be said of any Chinese emperor, who recognized no law other than those he himself made.""
http://www.commen...howdown/
Socialists want no limits on the power of the state and must attack religion.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"Religion was not the "opiate of the people," intended to keep them in line. It was, rather, to keep the government in line." - RyggTard

Religion you moron, and it still is for people living in the Vatican.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"You are describing the US k-12 socialist govt run school system." - RyggTard

RyggTard has yet to explain why the school systems from the socialist states invariably produce vastly better results than the school system in Capitalist America.

Come on TardieBoy. Try to address an issue in your own words rather than cutting and pasting nonsense from right wing rags.

Poor Tardieboy. He is a self professed "free thinker", who just can't manage to think for himself.
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"Uwe and Hannelore Romeike fled to the United States in 2008 with their family after being threatened with thousands of dollars in fines and possible jail time in Germany because they choose to homeschool their children." - RyggTard

So the Dregs of Europe are immigrating to the U.S.

So what? Bad news for America. Good news for Europe.

Home schooled children held prisoner for 2 years - charges of sexual assault against father.

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) -- Police were poring over a journal they say a 17-year-old girl kept while she and her two younger sisters were imprisoned by their mother and stepfather for up to two years.

Police later discovered the 17-year-old was being held separately from her sisters in another room. The three girls were malnourished and dirty and told officers they hadn't taken a bath in up to six months.

The mother claims that the children were home-schooled.

http://hosted.ap....03-29-59
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Nov 28, 2013
"Oh, only Americans? I look around and see it destroying civilisation. " - bluehigh

So do I. I simply point out the corrosive effect of Capitalism on the most Capitalist nation. - America, where Bullet Proof Christmas Trees are now apparently needed.

Christmas Tree Saves Family When Gunfire Rings Out In Jeannette

http://pittsburgh...annette/
VendicarE
1 / 5 (1) Nov 28, 2013
"The assertion of Frederic Maitland that no English king ever believed that he was above the law" - RyggTard

How many wives did Henry the 8th murder?
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
@kkkochevnik
Attempting to have an honest conversation with a bigot such as yourself would be a total waste of time. Trying to suddenly portray yourself as as a reasonable and tolerant person at this point is ludicrous and one only needs to read your posts to understand the extent of your prejudice. In fact, you and your ilk are the excrement civilization has been trying to scrape off the bottom of our shoes for centuries. We know the results when we're unsuccessful.
The Earth upon which you stand is made of excrement and "pre-owned" bodies. I dare say dirt is the true "social network" that puts Facebook to shame. Anyway I appreciate your attempt at "unspeak" and defining all non-conservaturd and non-psychopath beings as bigoted. It reminded me of the hate mail Richard Dawkins read aloud for a laugh http://www.youtub...S_JNeOTQ

BTW the KKK is of catholic origins, which is why they wear the Templar dress
goracle
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 01, 2013
"Oh, only Americans? I look around and see it destroying civilisation. " - bluehigh

So do I. I simply point out the corrosive effect of Capitalism on the most Capitalist nation. - America, where Bullet Proof Christmas Trees are now apparently needed.

Christmas Tree Saves Family When Gunfire Rings Out In Jeannette

http://pittsburgh...annette/

Apparently it was the combination of the wall, the tree and the space that the tree created between the wall and the sofa, not just the tree. I do see your point though.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (10) Dec 02, 2013
Do you understand that indoctrination can easily destroy a childs reasoning ability? When one is conditioned to rely on faith over facts and reason, learning becomes dysfunctional.


Complete nonsense. Moreover YOU want to indoctrinate, even by your own standards. Address that point and I'll feel more inclined to take you seriously on this one.

No not me personally, but rather society as a whole.


Indeed. And guess what it says about teaching children religion?

Your rage does not an argument counter.


How about pointing out you're using your own definition of indoctrination to indoctrinate kids? That makes a pretty good counter ;)

Please explain


I will when you explain how it's OK for the government or people with YOUR personal secular views to indoctrinate kids when it isn't for anyone else...

Modernmystic
1.1 / 5 (11) Dec 02, 2013
RyggTard has yet to explain why the school systems from the socialist states invariably produce vastly better results than the school system in Capitalist America.


Oh I dunno....CULTURE maybe?

Do you honestly think you can cut and paste policies across cultures and countries and they'll just work?

Think it's that simple? Really?

Maybe you can explain why charter schools outperform public ones in "Capitalist America"?.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 02, 2013
Oh I dunno....CULTURE maybe?

There is a Scandinavian belt across the US that has similar unemployment and poverty statistics as Scandinavia.
"Scandinavians' traditional interest in education, hard work and good governance serves them well both at home and abroad. It's not socialism that is primarily responsible."
http://www.newgeo...an-model
For the past 100 years, the US has not been very capitalistic. It is quite fascistic with the state controlling corporations.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 02, 2013
It seems you can't cut policies from one culture to the next, but Christianity can go between cultures

http://www.youtub...6wcf2jqU
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 02, 2013
It seems you can't cut policies from one culture to the next, but Christianity can go between cultures

http://www.youtub...6wcf2jqU

Because its essence, love, is common to all humans
VendicarE
3 / 5 (2) Dec 03, 2013
"CULTURE maybe?" - Mystic

I agree. Now what is it about Capitalist culture that makes it so self destructive and murderous?
nowhere
1 / 5 (2) Dec 03, 2013
Moreover YOU want to indoctrinate

Rediculous assertion. What do I want indoctrinated and how? You're welcome to quote me.

Address that point

Your assertion is not a valid point.

Indeed. And guess what it[society] says about teaching children religion?

Society knows that religion is indoctrination, except their own which is the right one. So they sacrifice the other religions children only so they may secure their own children.

How about pointing out you're using your own definition of indoctrination

No I'm using the Wiki definition, although I'm sure all definition would suffice.

to indoctrinate kids?

Education is not indoctrination. See previous.
nowhere
1 / 5 (2) Dec 03, 2013
That makes a pretty good counter ;)

Since your points are all wrong, or invalid assertions, you haven't actually said anything, let alone made a counter argument and let alone a good one ;)

Please explain

I will when you explain

Since I asked first shouldn't you answer first?

how it's OK for the government or people with YOUR personal secular views

Which views would these be? Please be specific, you're welcome to quote me.

to indoctrinate kids when it isn't for anyone else

I'm only for educating kids. Education is not indoctrination.
Modernmystic
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 03, 2013
Rediculous assertion. What do I want indoctrinated and how? You're welcome to quote me.


I'm sorry maybe i misunderstood. So you believe we shouldn't ban religious teaching to children? If you are you are for indoctrination based on your own provided definition which was;

It[indoctrination] is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.[2] As such the term may be used pejoratively


How can they question an atheistic worldview if " the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned."? Not only are they not expected to, they wouldn't be allowed to under the LAW according to what you've been saying.

The definition doesn't say ANYTHING about the attributes of the subject at hand. It doesn't matter whether or not YOU think its true or false. The point is the person gets to decide that for THEMSELVES.

Modernmystic
1 / 5 (8) Dec 03, 2013
Society knows that religion is indoctrination, except their own which is the right one. So they sacrifice the other religions children only so they may secure their own children.


You can go on and on about what "society knows", like you can speak for it or something, but the only relevant fact here is that it allows children to be taught religion so, according to your own assertions, it's not child abuse or against children's rights. Have your cake or eat it....
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 03, 2013
Be careful what you say..... If Obama doesn't like it, you will get the IRS after you.
http://www.cnsnew...ited-irs

Progressives, first they ridicule, then threaten and intimidate, then call names, then if they get into power will use anything they can to destroy any opposition.

So my question to PHYSORG is, why so few reports into the disaster of OBAMAcare and Obamawebsite? Are you guys scared of the IRS, DOJ, or is it because like webmd you are getting paid to put out what Obama wants put out?
Modernmystic
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 03, 2013
"CULTURE maybe?" - Mystic

I agree. Now what is it about Capitalist culture that makes it so self destructive and murderous?


Nothing about Capitalist culture that I can think of. The Japanese are probably the most peaceful and productive people on the planet. I think it has more to do with the idea of civic responsibility and community than an economic system.
BSD
1 / 5 (6) Dec 04, 2013
If you refuse to allow another perspective to be heard it IS indoctrination by definition.


Forcing feeding children Bullshit, (religion) is indoctrination because the child is in a position of weakness. The child doesn't have the power to question or to say no. That is indoctrination and therefore a form of child abuse. Bullshit, perpetrated on a pandemic scale by Bullshit Artists commonly known as clergy.

It is plainly obvious the ModernMystic is religious. This discussion makes him angry and abusive to those that push a Bullshit free existence.

Bullshit (religion) needs to be banned from anyone below the age of 25 yo. This makes sure that most of the population is adult enough to see it for what it is. A childish fantasy with hate and killing as it's core feature.

I suppose it has some benefits, it keeps the Muslim population in check, the Irish "troubles" were an amusing sideshow and kept the Christian population there in check too.
BSD
1 / 5 (6) Dec 04, 2013
Why do conservatives and Bullshit (religious) believers, see stupidity, ignorance and conservatism as desirable human characteristics?

Why are christians, muslims and all other Bullshit believers so wrapped up in childish fantasy?

Why do Bullshit believers need to kill each other based on the premise; "My god is better than your god"?

What is shit you call god anyway? Not one of you Bullshit believers have proved it's existence all through millenia.

Australians hate the idea of muslims lobbing on our doorstep, it is their religion that is offensive to us. The last thing we need here are violent Bullshit believers.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 04, 2013
Sound like some are giving up:

"Do people, cats, plants and other creatures belong in one category and K'Nex, computers, stars and rocks in another? My conclusion: No. In fact, I decided, life does not actually exist."
http://blogs.scie...y-exist/

Forcing feeding children Bullshit,

Like socialism is good and BHO is the messiah?
I'm only for educating kids. Education is not indoctrination.

Then why do so many believe socialism creates liberty and prosperity instead of tyranny and misery? Why do govts vigorously oppose anyone but the state controlling education?
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (8) Dec 04, 2013
If you refuse to allow another perspective to be heard it IS indoctrination by definition.


Forcing feeding children Bullshit, (religion) is indoctrination because the child is in a position of weakness.


Religious people would say the same thing about teaching our worldview. The fact is that all your doing is stating your opinion, and the law doesn't and shouldn't care about your or my opinion. All people should be allowed to decide for themselves. Sheltering children from thinking doesn't seem to be a good way to teach them to think. Force feeding anyone anything is indoctrination. I'd agree with your opinion if I lived in a country which didn't allow for a plurality of opinions to be presented. The fact is that I do, and so do you. What you want is opposite side of the same coin as fundamentalist Islamic nations. I'd like freedom.

It is plainly obvious the ModernMystic is religious.

Not to him :)
Modernmystic
1.5 / 5 (8) Dec 04, 2013
Why do conservatives and Bullshit (religious) believers, see stupidity, ignorance and conservatism as desirable human characteristics?


Is it difficult for you to conceive other people don't see the world the same way you do?

Why are christians, muslims and all other Bullshit believers so wrapped up in childish fantasy?


It gives them comfort and a false sense of security is my best guess. All people do this with different beliefs. The religious are just more obvious.

Why do Bullshit believers need to kill each other based on the premise; "My god is better than your god"?


Because faith can't use reason so it must use force.

Why do you feel soooooo afraid and threatened by this? Where does all this HATE come from? If left alone the "situation" will rectify itself. It already is. If you polarize and threaten people however, you're going to get the opposite of what you want.

freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 04, 2013
BSD,

The Bible and even Jesus is so simple a 11 year old like the one speaking below can understand.
http://www.youtub...VIurPSbc

Yet atheist/secular humanists cannot understand or even define the simple concepts of Love. To prove my point, can you show me where love is defined or explained in any of the secular humanist manifestos?
Tetsugaku
1 / 5 (4) Dec 04, 2013
Yet atheist/secular humanists cannot understand or even define the simple concepts of Love.


We cant? My family, friends, and fiancé might disagree.

To prove my point, can you show me where love is defined or explained in any of the secular humanist manifestos?


Does it have to be defined to be felt? Are you saying because we believe differently than you we aren't really human beings that are capable of feeling the same things you do? I just want to be clear here.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 04, 2013
Because faith can't use reason so it must use force.[q/]
Faith cannot be forced even though socialists continue the attempt.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 04, 2013
OK Tetsugaku please, using any of the Humanist Manifesto's please define Love.
Tetsugaku
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 04, 2013
OK Tetsugaku please, using any of the Humanist Manifesto's please define Love.


I don't have to define it to feel it. I have a three year old nephew who can't define it and can definitely feel it from everyone around him.

What point are you trying to prove here?
kochevnik
1.9 / 5 (7) Dec 04, 2013
@FreeOfThiniking OK Tetsugaku please, using any of the Humanist Manifesto's please define Love.
Bosons. Since you didn't know that, why are you on a science site? Clearly you are not here to learn
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 04, 2013
Progressive Humanists Atheists keep saying they are smarter than religious people, why is it that while simple Christians of 2000 years ago could define such a simple thing like love, the most smartest of Secular Humanist Atheist over a 100 years have been unable to?

Oh, I got the answer. Christianity is about love, Progressive Humanism is about hate.

freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 04, 2013
Here is the theme song for Atheists
http://www.youtub...GzZ0tQpA

This song shows what Progressive Atheist world is like, then what happens when the power of God's love shines into it.
http://www.youtub...dKOfbC9c
Tetsugaku
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 04, 2013
Progressive Humanists Atheists keep saying they are smarter than religious people,


No, some do, some don't.

why is it that while simple Christians of 2000 years ago could define such a simple thing like love, the most smartest of Secular Humanist Atheist over a 100 years have been unable to?


Why is it that someone thinks it's necessary to define love or, even more perpelxing, that defining love makes them somehow smart?

Oh, I got the answer. Christianity is about love, Progressive Humanism is about hate.


So if someone can't define love to your personal satisfaction, or recognizes that love can't be defined for every human being then they're "about hate"? I can't define progressive humanism or even know what YOU mean when you say it, but I can tell you my philosophy isn't about hate.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 04, 2013
tet, you don't seem to be a sockpupper so I apologize for being short with you.

Defining terms is extremely important these days. Progressives, Conservatives and Christians MAY use the same words, but they have different meaning to the different groups.

For example the word racist. To a progressive, anyone who objects to anything Obama does is a racist.

If you use the word Love, common use of the word means feelings. Historically Christians use the word Love as actions irrespective of any feelings. When a Christian says they love someone it is (actually should) be much deeper than just good feelings. When God tells us to love one another, He says what love actually is.

Again I first thought you were just another sock puppet so I apologize for being short and snippy with you. If you want to further discuss this offline you can PM me.
kochevnik
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 05, 2013
@freeOfThinking Progressive Humanists Atheists keep saying they are smarter than religious people, why is it that while simple Christians of 2000 years ago could define such a simple thing like love, the most smartest of Secular Humanist Atheist over a 100 years have been unable to?

Oh, I got the answer. Christianity is about love, Progressive Humanism is about hate.

They didn't define it rigorously. You're just spamming physorg with retardation and hedging your baseless fabrications by preemptively whiling about atheists being conceited. You give no evidence of that assertion, as always

Do you have any answers that haven't found their origin in your ass? BTW "most smartest" is redundant
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 05, 2013
There was one commenter (I think his name was DavidW.) who talked a lot about love and truth. But there was one very important thing that he never mentioned, and that's...JUSTICE.

Truth, Love and Justice are the prime movers of a decent, law-abiding and caring society. Too bad that not everyone in the world is concerned about the lack of these 3 qualities in themselves and in society as a whole.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (10) Dec 05, 2013
@koch (off topic)
My question to you is this: given the fact that the gov't of China is aggressively demanding that any aircraft flying over the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, or ships approaching that are not owned by China, MUST provide their flight plan and other information to the Chinese military or face consequences...with which country or countries does Russia stand...China or Japan, South Korea and the U.S.?

And what is the real reason Russia is so keen on establishing GPS stations in various locations on U.S. soil?
nowhere
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 05, 2013
So you believe we shouldn't ban religious teaching to children?

Of course not. I just don't believe anyone teaches religion. At schools religions teaching is prohibited, or religions are taught as fact in segregated devotion classes (indoctrination). Children of alternate religions usually abstain from the classes that don't match their parents beliefs, as per their parents instructions. At home parents indoctrinate their children with the "correct" religion.
BSD
1 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
I must admit, religion and conservatism has some funny moments.

The sight of Jerry Falwell going down a water slide in a suit, looked like a huge shit going over the S-Bend and down the sewer.

Jimmy Swaggart's confession of sexual misconduct.

Glenn Beck's crying fits.... strange, very strange.

Fox News, is this some sort of parody or comedy? It has as much credibility as the rest of the Turdoch empire - NONE.
BSD
1 / 5 (8) Dec 05, 2013
Here is the theme song for Atheists
http://www.youtub...GzZ0tQpA

This song shows what Progressive Atheist world is like, then what happens when the power of God's love shines into it.
http://www.youtub...dKOfbC9c


Yep, that Australian band is unknown here, they are now based in Nashville. At least they know their market place and it's not Australia.

I am the beneficiary of no religious contact at all. All religious instruction in state schools in Australia was banned in 1972 following the election of the Labor government. It will never be reinstated.

I decided to go to what would have been my denomination one Sunday and had to keep myself from laughing at the silly little childish rituals and the dreary singing. The bible is a boring fairy tale down there with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. Suffice to say, I never went back.
nowhere
2 / 5 (4) Dec 05, 2013
but the only relevant fact here is that it[society] allows

Society allows genocide to happen, and dictatorships to continue because of the politics involved with interference. If we only rely on societies actions, or lack thereof, to determine morality then we will find that definition lacking.
ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 05, 2013
Fox News, is this some sort of parody or comedy?

No, that's what MSNBC and CNN are for.
"It's been a rotten several weeks for the mainstream media. MSNBC Alec Baldwin lost his job after calling a photographer a "c***sucking f*g"'; now he's been followed to the scrap heap by Martin Bashir, who said someone should "p*ss" and "s***" in Sarah Palin's mouth. CNN, meanwhile, is cutting back on its news content and instead focusing on entertainment-oriented content like Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown. "We also want to broaden what people can expect from CNN," boss Jeff Zucker says, explaining that the network needs "an attitude and a take."
" There's only so much market on the radical left, and in embracing it, MSNBC has completely left behind any journalistic aspirations it may once have had,"
http://www.breitb...SNBC-CNN
Modernmystic
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 05, 2013
So you believe we shouldn't ban religious teaching to children?

Of course not. I just don't believe anyone teaches religion. At schools religions teaching is prohibited, or religions are taught as fact in segregated devotion classes (indoctrination). Children of alternate religions usually abstain from the classes that don't match their parents beliefs, as per their parents instructions. At home parents indoctrinate their children with the "correct" religion.


Still not clear here. Perhaps a more direct question. Do you think we need any legislation we don't currently have (in America) to "protect" children from "indoctrination"? And if so, what does that legislation look like?
Modernmystic
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 05, 2013
Society allows genocide to happen, and dictatorships to continue because of the politics involved with interference. If we only rely on societies actions, or lack thereof, to determine morality then we will find that definition lacking.


Yes but earlier you said society gets to determine what children's rights are.

Is what you meant to say "Society allows the teaching (or indoctrination) of children and society gets to determine what children's rights are...except in the special cases where I disagree."?

Not that I disagree with the general thrust of your point, but you're not being clear at all.

One other point. Indoctrination can indeed be defined to be synonymous with indoctrination:

http://www.merria...ctrinate

The first definition fits education quite well. It wasn't until the 1800s that the term picked up it's more modern pejorative lilt. Therefore I believe the issue of restriction of ideas is the key distinction.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
On edit:
One other point. Indoctrination can indeed be defined to be synonymous with indoctrination:


Should read
One other point. Indoctrination can indeed be defined to be synonymous with education:
freethinking
1 / 5 (10) Dec 05, 2013
BSD, this 11 year old boy knows more about the bible than many people
http://www.youtub...VIurPSbc
The last 1 1/2 minutes of the dialog shows you why Christians have the hope that you atheists don't have.

As for Christian songs and singers, I'll agree with you that most of them is nothing but fluff..... However almost every secular songs/singers is nothing but idiots repeating the same garbage with nothing original.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
And what is the real reason Russia is so keen on establishing GPS stations in various locations on U.S. soil?
Well obviously its because they want to steal our women and poison our grain. Hey - why dont you just channel yourself when you were russkiye_person? Or arent you talking to yourself anymore?
this 11 year old boy knows more about the bible than many people
Yeah somebody should tell this poor kid that the flood, the exodus, the joshuan slaughter, the jewish kingdoms, and the resurrection never happened before he wastes any more of his time and corrupts any more young minds. So sad.
kochevnik
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
As for Christian songs and singers, I'll agree with you that most of them is nothing but fluff..... However almost every secular songs/singers is nothing but idiots repeating the same garbage with nothing original.

What is so special about hope, freeOfThinking? Jews had hope that Auschwitz would just be a pleasant campground. Hope led them to slaughter. What real thing (not fairy tale bs) do you have that Jews didn't?
freethinking
1 / 5 (12) Dec 05, 2013
Koch, thanks for the real question, it is one of the best I've gotten from you.

What do I have? Ravi summed it up very nicely
http://www.youtub...pwiDhdOY

nowhere
3 / 5 (2) Dec 06, 2013
Do you think we need any legislation we don't currently have (in America) to "protect" children from "indoctrination"?

Since I'm not an American I don't know the current extent of your legislation regarding child abuse, nor the effective enforcement of that system. Do most Americans know this information?

And if so, what does that legislation look like?

Creating legislation is an indepth complex process. The vocabulary definitions and special clauses alone could fill pages. Do you really expect me to whip up a draft for you?

Yes but earlier you said society gets to determine what children's rights are.

Societies sense of morality isn't the same as society's effective action against immorality.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
What is so special about hope,

Survival.
Lose hope and die.
Ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl?
Modernmystic
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 06, 2013
Since I'm not an American I don't know the current extent of your legislation regarding child abuse, nor the effective enforcement of that system. Do most Americans know this information?


We do, and it doesn't include teaching your children religious or spiritual beliefs. That's what you're dodging isn't it?

Creating legislation is an indepth complex process. The vocabulary definitions and special clauses alone could fill pages. Do you really expect me to whip up a draft for you?


No I really expect you to quit niggling and state your honest opinion. I understand you can't really do that because I've pointed out you'd be up against your own definition of abuse if you did.

Societies sense of morality isn't the same as society's effective action against immorality.


Here a dodge, there a dodge, everywhere a doge doge...do you own a farm?
goracle
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 06, 2013
Progressive Humanists Atheists keep saying they are smarter than religious people, why is it that while simple Christians of 2000 years ago could define such a simple thing like love, the most smartest of Secular Humanist Atheist over a 100 years have been unable to?

Oh, I got the answer. Christianity is about love, Progressive Humanism is about hate.


Your comment is about projection, only you don't know it.
freethinking
1 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Goracle, you, like Obama lie then accuse others of lying and expect people to believe you.

Projecting naaaa, do you want a list of Obama's lies?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
Since I'm not an American I don't know the current extent of your legislation regarding child abuse, nor the effective enforcement of that system.
This is the INTERNET. Look it up yoursellf. I suggest starting with david koresh and warren jeffs. Also look up why katie holmes left tom cruise.

Oh I forgot. Try also John Geoghan and 'catholic church'. Also

"The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen children) were the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by... church missions" -who abused, tortured and killed them. Also try canada.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
What is so special about hope,

Survival.
Lose hope and die.
Ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Frankl?
Hope based on superstition is death.

Here is the result of hope in cultures who propagate on the promise that god will provide for the faithful.

"residents of Bangui stayed because this was the place where, at least for a while, they were least afraid of the spasm of bloodshed that left more than 100 people dead Thursday in the lawless capital.

Appolinaire Donoboy told The Associated Press he counted five bodies on his way to the airport.

"They are slaughtering us like chickens," said Donoboy, a Christian whose family remained in hiding as former rebels search house-to-house."
freethinking
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
I agree with Otto, faith based of superstition is death.

But real hope is life.... http://www.youtub...pwiDhdOY

freethinking
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
for indoctrination of youth see Hitler youth, check out common core here in the USA, check out what Mao did, what North Korea is doing, what Obama progressives are doing http://www.telegr...ube.html

Here are some quotes said by a famous Progressive:
"He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future." (which is why Progressive go to great effort to control the schools)
"It is not truth that matters, but victory" (which is why progressives have no issues with lying)
"By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise." (which is why Otto does what he does)
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it" (Obama uses this all the time.... You will be able to keep.... I did not hear Rev. Write.... Benghazi was caused by a video... didn't say with my uncle....
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
Faith-based superstition is death.

"In 1994... the Rwandan Armed Forces, working with trained civilian militia, systematically massacred as many as 1 million of the country's 7.7 million people... it seems fair to estimate that at least 80 percent of the Tutsi living in the country lost their lives.

"In the aftermath of this horrific bloodbath, Rwanda's Christian churches have faced extensive criticism. Many journalists, scholars, human rights activists, politicians, and even some church personnel have accused the churches... of active complicity in the violence... church personnel and institutions were actively involved in the program of resistance to popular pressures for political reform that culminated in the 1994 genocide, and numerous priests, pastors, nuns, brothers, catechists, and Catholic and Protestant lay leaders supported, participated in, or helped to organize the killings."

-Religion is institutionalized bigotry which very often leads to savagery such as this.
freethinking
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
What happens when the government thinks it owns children
http://www.thebla...ts-will/
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
What happens when the church thinks it owns children.

"1857: The Gradual Civilization Act is passed by the Legislature of Upper Canada, permanently disenfranchising all Indian and Metis peoples, and placing them in a separate, inferior legal category than citizens.

"1905: Over one hundred residential schools are in existence across Canada, 60% of them run by the Roman Catholics.

"1907: Dr. Peter Bryce, Medical Inspector for the Department of Indian Affairs, reports that native children are being deliberately infected with diseases like tuberculosis, and are left to die untreated, as a regular practice. He cites an average death rate of 40% in the residential schools.

"1910: A joint agreement between the federal government and the Roman Catholic, Anglican, Presbyterian and Methodist churches establishes the structure of Indian Residential Schools"
Cont
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
May, 1919: Despite an escalating death rate of Indian children in residential schools from tuberculosis - in some cases as high as 75% - Duncan Campbell Scott abolishes the post of Medical Inspector for Indian residential schools. Within two years, deaths due to tuberculosis have tripled in residential schools.

1920: Federal legislation makes it mandatory for every Indian child to be sent to residential schools upon reaching seven years of age.

1928: Sexual Sterilization Act is passed in Alberta, allowing any inmate of a native residential school to be sterilized upon the approval of the school Principal. At least 3,500 Indian women are sterilized under this law.

"1933: Residential school Principals are made the legal guardians of all native students, under the oversight of the federal Department of Mines and Resources. Every native parent is forced by law to surrender legal custody of their children to the Principal - a church employee - or face imprisonment."

Hitler was CATHOLIC.
freethinking
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
Otto,

When people refuse God they can do anything.

When they have Jesus, they have live....
http://www.youtub...jHMFqNeE
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (11) Dec 06, 2013
Otto,

I have always said, Parents are the ones responsible for children and am a strong proponent of parental rights. In all those cases you mentioned, it was PROGRESSIVES using the force of Government that dehumanized, demeaned, and did what they thought was best.

So are you now agreeing with me that Government should stay out of the way of parents raising their children the way the parents see fit?
freethinking
1.7 / 5 (11) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 06, 2013
The church is the blood and body of Christ. This is why the clergy make such good butchers I suppose.

"1994-95: Eyewitnesses to murders at the United Church's Alberni residential school speak out publicly, from the pulpit of Reverend Kevin Annett in Port Alberni. Annett is summarily fired without cause within a month, and is expelled from United Church ministry without due process during 1996.

February, 1996: The first class action lawsuit of Alberni residential school survivors is brought against the United Church of Canada and the federal government. The church responds with a counter-suit and an attempted "gag order" on Kevin Annett, which fails."

NOT PEACE BUT A SWORD
"21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death." Matt10
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 06, 2013
I have always said, Parents are the ones responsible for children
NOT according to all the priests, ministers, nuns et al who sought fit to STEAL Indian children away from their parents in Canada and Australia and then proceed to abuse, sterilize. torture, and MURDER them.
and am a strong proponent of parental rights. In all those cases you mentioned, it was PROGRESSIVES
Yeah. Your bigotry is stomach-turning.
hitler wasn't a religionist
How the FUCK would you know? You get all your history from godder websites.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, you are the bigot, you are the hater, you want to take children away from parents IF they don't do or teach what you want them to.

Did you watch that last video of Ravi? Minute 7 to end he talks about saving children.... Who is saving these children?
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, here is the whole quote from Matthew 10

18 Because of me (Jesus) you (Christians) will even be brought in front of governors and kings to testify to them and to everyone in the world. 19 When they hand you over to the authorities, don't worry about what to say or how to say it. When the time comes, you will be given what to say. 20 Indeed, you're not the ones who will be speaking. The Spirit of your Father will be speaking through you. 21 "Brother will hand over brother to death; a father will hand over his child. Children will rebel against their parents and kill them. 22 Everyone will hate you because you are committed to me.

It says plainly, the world, your parents, your children, your relatives will turn Christians in and have them killed. You and those who hate like you are the fulfillment of this prophecy.
freethinking
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Otto,

Would you kill your child if she became a Christian? A lot of people would. Listen to Ravi speak to someone who would (minute 1:15-3:00)

http://www.youtub..._TUKNgF8
goracle
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 06, 2013
Goracle, you, like Obama lie then accuse others of lying and expect people to believe you.

Projecting naaaa, do you want a list of Obama's lies?

Yawn. What makes you think I voted for Obama? I would be interested in your list if a) it wasn't mostly pulled from your butt, and b) it would make you shut up and do some actual thinking. Given those too requirements, the answer is no.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
This is what 'liberals' fear most as demonstrated by their control of schools.

"Unfortunately, the place where our first creative ideas go to die is the place that should be most open to them—school. Studies show that teachers overwhelmingly discriminate against creative students, favoring their satisfier classmates who more readily follow directions and do what they're told."
http://www.slate....ing.html

This may explain some of the fear expressed by AGWites:
"Staw says most people are risk-averse. He refers to them as satisfiers. "As much as we celebrate independence in Western cultures, there is an awful lot of pressure to conform," he says. Satisfiers avoid stirring things up, even if it means forsaking the truth or rejecting a good idea. "
Why do AGWites fear change?
kochevnik
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.
That quote came from Hitler himself, you moron

And the swastika Hitler took from the roof of the abbey where he sequestered himself for three weeks, reading your bible b.s.
BSD
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.


No, he was a conservative. A right winger. A Catholic.
BSD
2.4 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2013
NOT according to all the priests, ministers, nuns et al who sought fit to STEAL Indian children away from their parents in Canada and Australia and then proceed to abuse, sterilize. torture, and MURDER them.


Not only did Catholics do this in Australia, they abused orphans coming from the UK very early post war. They locked up young "fallen women" in reformatories and sexually abused and tortured them. Catholics even locked up attractive young women, "just in case" they got into trouble.

Yep, plenty of love going on in 20th century Australia. All by religious cunts.

Unfortunately, Australia is run by the Catholic church who has infiltrated both sides of politics, much to the disgust of the population. It is hard to remove cancer when it that entrenched.

ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.


No, he was a conservative. A right winger. A Catholic.

Hitler was a socialist. Like all socialists, he craved power and did everything to acquire power.
kochevnik
3 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.


No, he was a conservative. A right winger. A Catholic.

Hitler was a socialist. Like all socialists, he craved power and did everything to acquire power.
Yes because everything in the universe is socialist to you. Anything you don't like is socialist. Here is your meaningless definition of socialist:
@ryggie: "I use socialist because it covers all the bases: fascists, 'liberals', 'progressives', statists, crony capitalists, and anyone who supports using the power of the state to control the property rights of the individual."
By your own words Hitler was a fascist
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Socialism is as socialism does: state control of private property.
Why do so many here want the state to control your life, "The Lives of Others", your property, ...?
Koch likes the state controlling his life?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2013
Socialism is as socialism does: state control of private property.
Why do so many here want the state to control your life, "The Lives of Others", your property, ...?
Koch likes the state controlling his life?
The grand inquisitor was a socialist. Jesus was certainly a socialist when he demanded that everyone give up everything they owned and follow him.
Did you watch that last video of Ravi? Minute 7 to end he talks about saving children.... Who is saving these children?
You are susceptible to bullshit artists. I'm sure Jim jones talked to his adorers in exactly the same way.

The nature is in the doing, not the talking. All religions spout the same bullshit. Take for instance what priests have been doing to children for a long while. I'm sure they were talking about christs love as they were abusing them.

Matt10 describes what happens to families when religion is introduced. They murder EACH OTHER. And since we know your god is a lie, they murder for nothing.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
"Hana Williams died in May 2011 in the backyard of the couple's home, where she was forced to stay as part of a strict system of child-rearing outlined in a Christian parenting book.
An autopsy showed that Hana died of hypothermia that was aggravated by chronic gastritis and malnutrition.
Her bone-thin body was covered in bruises, including a lump on her shaved head, and red bloody markings on her hips, elbows and face."

"3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." Matt15

-Jesus reiterates the OT law which says that insolent children must be killed. Xians have killed each other, including those closest to them, with the same frequency as any other religion. Protestants herded Catholics into their churches during the 30 years war and burned them. Same thing happened in Rwanda/Burundi.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Do a search of 'Christian parents killing their children'. I am appalled at the long long list. This happens a lot. And why not? Jesus commanded it.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Jesus was certainly a socialist when he demanded that everyone give up everything they owned and follow him.


Jesus DEMANDED nothing.
Jesus could have become a socialist if He had used His power to force the world to His will. He did no such thing.
The assertion from socialists and atheists that Jesus was a socialist are specious and employed to force Christians to support socialism.
BSD
2.1 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Jesus could have become a socialist if He had used His power to force the world to His will. He did no such thing.
The assertion from socialists and atheists that Jesus was a socialist are specious and employed to force Christians to support socialism.


God is bullshit and by extension Jesus is son of bullshit. In other words jesus never existed.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
Jesus could have become a socialist if He had used His power to force the world to His will. He did no such thing.
The assertion from socialists and atheists that Jesus was a socialist are specious and employed to force Christians to support socialism.


God is bullshit and by extension Jesus is son of bullshit. In other words jesus never existed.

So why do atheist socialists want to use His Words to promote socialism?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2013
Jesus DEMANDED nothing.
Jesus could have become a socialist if He had used His power to force the world to His will. He did no such thing.
Of course he did. In his typically passive aggressive way he said either follow me or roast in hell for eternity. No other choice. If you believe in hell then you must do what he says.

"Comply or suffer the consequences."

-How is this not a demand? Because you don't want it to be? Because the book says Jesus is love?
BSD
1.5 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2013
So why do atheist socialists want to use His Words to promote socialism?


I don't. Religion is a load of childish bullshit. Though I'm not an atheist anyway.

My viewpoint is irreligious.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (7) Dec 08, 2013
So why do atheist socialists want to use His Words to promote socialism?


I don't. Religion is a load of childish bullshit. Though I'm not an atheist anyway.

My viewpoint is irreligious.

You seem to have faith in socialism.
goracle
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 08, 2013
Otto, we have gone over this many times Hitler was a Progressive Socialist. You can repeat the lie that he was a Christian as many times as you want, but your lie is still a lie.


No, he was a conservative. A right winger. A Catholic.

Hitler was a socialist. Like all socialists, he craved power and did everything to acquire power.

Hitler used the term socialist because he was clever enough to realize that, even years in the future, it could be used by basement-dwelling malcontents to spew utter rubbish.
goracle
3 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2013
Ryggtard's supposed 'socialist', Adolf Hitler/Shickelgruber wrote in Mein Kampf: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." Hardly atheist, and hardly 'progressive socialist'.

Maybe Ryggy can explain how I used my evil socialist science to travel back in time, infiltrate the publishing houses of both the Weimar Republic and the Third Reich to plant that phrase in the book, all without getting caught?
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 09, 2013
We do, and it doesn't include teaching your children religious or spiritual beliefs.

So when a parent beats their child cuz the Bible dun tell em too, that's fine because teaching children religion isn't included in your child abuse act?

No I really expect you to quit niggling and state your honest opinion.

Simple. I'm against the indoctrination of children, which in this case takes on a religious form. When you tell your 5 year old the earth is 6000, that a blood transfusion is blasphemous or other nonsense then you are abusing a impressionable mind and that is child abuse.

I understand you can't really do that because I've...blah blah blah

It's astounding how well you fail to understand.
ryggesogn2
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
Hardly atheist, and hardly 'progressive socialist'.

It is if the purpose was to use Jews as a scapegoat in an already socialist German state that was predominately Christian.
The doctrine of Christianity is quite clear and anyone can read all about in a book called the New Testament with the key take away being "love your neighbor as yourself".
The doctrine of socialism is quite clear and fundamentally conflicts with "love your neighbor as yourself", unless you like having the state put a gun to your head and force you to do what the state wants you to do.
Unfortunately too many people can be swayed from following Christian principles because people are not perfect angels.
Hitler, like all charismatic socialists use whatever means necessary to build a following. BHO is a recent example.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.3 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2013
The doctrine of Christianity is quite clear and anyone can read all about in a book called the New Testament with the key take away being "love your neighbor as yourself".
No the doctrine of xianity is elucidated in john 3:18 - 21:

"18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."

-and 2 chron:

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." -2 Chron15:12-13

-The church has used this doctrine ever since it's inception as the basis for persecution, pogrom, and the suppression of scientific inquiry.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Dec 09, 2013
Xian hatred of Jews:

"..the Holy Thursday liturgy... speaks of "the murderers of God, the lawless nation of the Jews",and, referring to "the assembly of the Jews", prays: "But give them, Lord, their reward, because they devised vain things against Thee."

-But Germans have their own personal spokesman:

"Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments...

"Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them."
Martin Luther - "The Jews & Their Lies"

-Blame the church, not hitler the good catholic.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2013
So when a parent beats their child cuz the Bible dun tell em too, that's fine because teaching children religion isn't included in your child abuse act?


No, because beating children is child abuse in this country. No religious complications necessary.

Simple. I'm against the indoctrination of children, which in this case takes on a religious form. When you tell your 5 year old the earth is 6000, that a blood transfusion is blasphemous or other nonsense then you are abusing a impressionable mind and that is child abuse.


No it's not. As you've said society determines what child abuse is...you don't. It's nice to hear your opinion on the matter, thanks for sharing it.

Now, banning the possibility of the free exchange of ideas is called censorship, which is in direct violation of free speech. Society has determined that's criminal.

It's astounding how well you fail to understand.


You want censorship and you're hiding behind kids to get it?
freethinking
1 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2013
Otto, I've caught you many times misquoting the bible. Anyone who believes Hitler was a good catholic or a good christian is plain and simply an idiot, a fool or a liar.

Hitler was a socialist, the swastika was not a christian symbol.

http://history190...tory.htm

Nietzsche is quoted by Rav, and he talks about your reality.
http://www.youtub...ajqlNHeI
kochevnik
2.8 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
Otto, I've caught you many times misquoting the bible. Anyone who believes Hitler was a good catholic or a good christian is plain and simply an idiot, a fool or a liar.
No, you are the fool and liar for deliberately misquoting Hitler

You jump between threads when you're proven wrong, hoping others haven't seen you exposed
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.3 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2013
Otto, I've caught you many times misquoting the bible. Anyone who believes Hitler was a good catholic or a good christian is plain and simply an idiot, a fool or a liar
He was every bit as good a catholic and xian as was the grand inquisitor, or henry the 8th for that matter. Certainly he hated jews as much as luther.
Hitler was a socialist, the swastika was not a christian symbol
Its not a 'swastika' its a Hakenkreutz - crooked cross. From your idiot 'history' website:

'The swastika... The Nazis used it to murder millions of people" -uh how did they do that? Did they hit people over the head with it?

Ask.com - 'authored and maintained by freelance writers labelled 'experts'
Your article written by Jen Rosenberg '... an avid reader and researcher of history' -but not a very good writer is she? Hakenkreutze make very poor weapons.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
Germans hated jews long before hitler came along.

"Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch­thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.

"However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath.

"If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies­­ that is, longer than two thousand years."

-Etc. This from the almighty father of your unholy cult, Herr Martin Luther.
freethinking
1 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2013
How many children are abused at the hands of Public School teachers.
http://www.thebla...d-arrow/

The teacher should be fired (but wont) the Principle should be fired (but wont)
How many children are and will be abused by this one teacher and this one Principle over the next 15 years?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.3 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2013
Even further back, from one of your "Great Church Fathers":

"The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jews can never understand the scriptures, and forever bear the guilt of the death of Christ."

"The Jews are our attendant slaves, who carry, as it were, our satchels and bear the manuscripts while we study them. ... When we argue with the heathen we adduce the predictions found in the Bible written by the Jews." [no prob as the bible condones slavery doesnt it?]

""If you are his people, then admit you led Him to death."

-SAINT Augustine of hippo.

-But all is forgiven...

"In 1965 the Vatican rejected the idea of the collective culpability of Jewish people for the death of Christ in the Second Vatican Council document Nostra Aetate, a move which angered some Catholics."

-Better late than never eh?
How many children are abused at the hands of Public School teachers
How many MORE at the hands of priests?
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2013
No, because beating children is child abuse

Exactly. It's not the source of the abuse, but the form of that abuse that should be banned.

No it's not.

Yes it is.

As you've said society determines what child abuse is

Yes and crazy people are unfit parents who have their kids taken away. The only reason it doesn't happen with regards to the religiously crazed is because people are afraid.

...you don't.

No, you don't.

It's nice to hear your opinion on the matter, thanks for sharing it.

It's sad your opinion is to ignore child abuse in favour of religion.

You want censorship and you're hiding behind kids to get it?

We censor pedophiles and crazies all the time. Sometimes kid need someone to hide behind.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
The only reason it doesn't happen with regards to the religiously crazed is because people are afraid.

Afraid to do the wrong thing, which is a good thing.
Following "no's" logic, I think socialist are crazed and should have no interaction, no opportunities to indoctrinate children.
No, who will then be responsible for the children you want to be taken away, you?

It was the orphan children in govt run orphanages in Great Britain that were sent out to work in the looms.
Sometimes kid need someone to hide behind.

Like Jerry Sandusky or Joe Paterno and their supporters?
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
Exactly. It's not the source of the abuse, but the form of that abuse that should be banned.


Should be? According to you. And again thanks for your opinion. I don't think your fear, and your emotions, and illusions of control are sufficient grounds for invading the homes and relationships of other people.

Yes it is.


It's your opinion it is, the fact is that it currently isn't.

The only reason it doesn't happen with regards to the religiously crazed is because people are afraid.


No, it's because people AREN'T afraid. If people were afraid they'd be advocating things like banning ideas...

No, you don't.


I agree, thanks for finally getting the point. Neither of us get to determine it, as you've already said but keep forgetting.

It's sad your opinion is to ignore child abuse in favour of religion.


Oh I don't ignore anything. I'm not on anyone's side. I don't think fear, force and ignorance are good tools to deal with people. You do.
Modernmystic
2 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2013
Sometimes kid need someone to hide behind.


It's you doing the hiding. Be quite clear on that. You're using their innocence and the emotions it evokes in others to play out your issues with religion on society as a whole. Those are YOUR issues, kindly deal with them in your own home or in a therapist's office. That's not sarcasm or meanness either, I'm sorry if you hear it that way.

It's quite frankly a blatant attempt at manipulation using kids as your tool. We don't need to use kids to point out the problems with religion. Religion does that quite well on it's own, but what you're suggesting will help them deflect what their doing by pointing out your repression. You're not helping.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
'The wheels are coming off the progressives' dream of a cradle-to-grave entitlements, amnesty-ridden nanny state. Their wish list for complete government control – and their predictions the government shutdown would be the end of the GOP have been sacrificed to an Obamacare rollout that has enjoyed all the success of the Hindenburg (except on MSNBC, of course, where the Earth remains flat). "
"In nearly every way government has replaced religion in the progressive sphere. It is the grantor of rights, the arbiter of morality, the moderator of justice, the compass of true north. Government is the religion, and the agenda is God. "
"Perhaps progressives were correct in their charge that religious zealots are the greatest threat to our liberty today. And if they want to see one of those zealots, they need only look in the nearest reflective surface. "
http://townhall.c...1/page/2
freethinking
1 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
So what does a Progessive do to a 6 year old boy who kisses a girl.

http://www.breitb...g-a-girl

What would a conservative disciple do?
1. Tell 6 year old boy it's not appropriate.
2. Tell boys parents
3. Tell girls parents
4. If 6 year old does it again, have him clean the room, repeat steps 2 & 3
5. If 6 year old does it again, take him to principles office for a grand lecture, repeat steps 2&3

So now we know what Progressives will do to a normal 6 year old boy.... wonder what Progressives would have done if this 6 year old boy FORCIBLY kissed another 6 year old boy, and that boys parents were upset.....
Maggnus
4.5 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2013
So what does a Progessive do to a 6 year old boy who kisses a girl.

blah blah blah.....
It's more interesting that this apparent "conservative" can so quickly jump to a conclusion over a situation he knows little about, and knows nothing beyond the partial news stories (probably only the headlines) he has read.....
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 11, 2013
According to you. And again thanks for your opinion.

Thanks for your opinion on my opinion.

I don't think your fear, and your emotions, and illusions of control

Attack the argument not me please.

are sufficient grounds for invading the homes and relationships of other people.

I agree. But when it's physical fact that someone is being abused, then someone needs to act.

the fact is that it currently isn't.

Isn't what? Practiced or moral? I've never argued it was practiced.

If people were afraid they'd be advocating things like banning ideas...

Denying your child a blood transfusion because of your religion is not an idea. Its abuse.

Oh I don't ignore anything.

Only a childs right to learn without prejudice.

I'm not on anyone's side.

Which is why you're helping no one.

i don't think fear, force and ignorance are good tools to deal with people

But you don't mind children being indoctrinated with these tools?
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 11, 2013
It's you doing the hiding. Be quite clear on that. You're using their innocence and the emotions it evokes in others

Incorrect, the only time I did that was in response to your prior emotional use of them. Additionally I'd like you to count the number of times you have brought emotions into our discussion, specifically where you allocate me negative emotions to further your point.

to play out your issues with religion on society as a whole.

Did I once mention a ban or attack religion specifically?

Your whole argument boils down to:
1. Assigning me an agenda and negative emotions to discount my point.
2. Invoking free speech, which isn't a right, and censorship, which I'm not advocating.
3. Assuming that if something isn't enforced it isn't immoral.

Untill you have a relevant point I see no reason to continue this discussion.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Dec 11, 2013
Attack the argument not me please.


The two aren't separate or I would, and I wouldn't use the word attack. That's your language.

I agree. But when it's physical fact that someone is being abused...


Neither of us disagree on that one, we both know it, so why bring it up? This is about what a parent is allowed or not allowed to teach their own children. Stay on point, or don't complain when no one has a clue where you're coming from.

Isn't what? Practiced or moral? I've never argued it was practiced.


It currently isn't considered abuse to teach children about religion.

Only a childs right to learn without prejudice.


If you witness someone crying and don't think it's your place to barge in on their business it isn't ignoring them. And it's YOU who want to insert your prejudice into what a child is ALLOWED to learn.

Which is why you're helping no one.


Actually the ONLY way to help other people is to get out of your own way first.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Dec 11, 2013
But you don't mind children being indoctrinated with these tools?


I don't agree with it, but that's not the same thing as saying the state needs to step in.

Did I once mention a ban or attack religion specifically?


I've tried many many times to get you to clarify your position, you refuse or you do make a stance and then backpedal. Are you willing to do the one without the other now?

nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2013
The two aren't separate or I would, and I wouldn't use the word attack.

When someone on an online forum diagnoses your mental state and motives, negatively, which they couldn't possibly know, for the purposes of winning an argument that they admittedly don't understand...that's attacking the person not the argument.

I agree.

Neither of us disagree[..]so why bring it up?

Why did you bring up the point I agreed with first? Stay on point or don't com...blah blah blah.

It currently isn't considered abuse to teach children about religion.

Stay on point. I've already agreed with this.

If you witness someone crying and don't think it's your place to barge in on their business it isn't ignoring them.

Here we disagree. I have the opinion that it depends on the reason for that someone crying. If the are being verbal abused, beaten, mugged, etc, then you are ignoring them and it's immoral. All evil needs is for good men to do nothing.
nowhere
1 / 5 (1) Dec 12, 2013
And it's YOU who want to insert your prejudice into what a child is ALLOWED to learn.

Close, let's rearrange to make it true;
it's ME who wants a child to be ALLOWED to learn without prejudice.

I've tried many many times to get you to clarify your position

No you've tried to create positions for me even though I've stated mine more than once. Try reading through our discussion.

then backpedal.

No i haven't. Please give an example if you disagree.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (2) Dec 12, 2013
Close, let's rearrange to make it true;
it's ME who wants a child to be ALLOWED to learn without prejudice.


No it's you who wants to force parents to teach what you want them to. That's decidedly WITH prejudice.

It's me who wants both possibilities to be available which is without prejudice.

Re: your position and my mistaking it, misinterpreting it, or making it up...

Well then just clearly state it and let's go from there. What EXACTLY is your position?

When someone on an online forum diagnoses your mental state and motives,


Fear is ususally the only reason someone wants something banned.

negatively,


your word, not mine.

which they couldn't possibly know, for the purposes of winning an argument that they admittedly don't understand...that's attacking the person not the argument.


If your fear is driving your argument it's impossible to deal with you on the MERITS of the argument alone. Isn't it? I have no choice but to address the fear.
BSD
1 / 5 (2) Dec 14, 2013
You seem to have faith in socialism.


I am totally faithless. I require proof, not relying on a childish story book you fuckwits call the bible, what ever the fuck that word is supposed to mean. From my experiences, the Right are a scourge, including religious types, conservatives, national socialists, fascists, our Liberal and National parties and capitalism.

Take christmas, no please, take it. What a pointless, childish waste of time over nothing, because nothing happened. I ignore bullshit like that and all other religious shit.

I bet you still believe in father christmas too, palin fuckers.
kochevnik
4 / 5 (1) Dec 14, 2013
Close, let's rearrange to make it true;it's ME who wants a child to be ALLOWED to learn without prejudice.
No it's you who wants to force parents to teach what you want them to. That's decidedly WITH prejudice.
No, it's their EMPLOYER forcing curriculum. An employer who doesn't want idiots schooled by idiots, but workers with a common core of skills so they can work as a team
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (2) Dec 14, 2013
I am totally faithless.

Really?
With all that profanity I must have hit a nerve.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (2) Dec 15, 2013
How many of you who are anti-religion speak up and speak out against Islam?
"Whitechapel is on the outskirts of London, but it is an area where Muslims enforce Sharia law without any interference from British officials. On Saturday, they took it a step further and told shop owners in the area they will face 40 lashes if they continue to sell alcohol."
http://www.breitb...-Alcohol
freethinking
1 / 5 (3) Dec 16, 2013
rygg,

Progressives align themselves with Muslims.

http://www.thebla...-events/

If this was done by a Christian Professor at a christian church let alone at a university Progressives, Feminists, Homosexual activists, Abortion Activists would be marching around.....

Look at the beginning of this video..... women and men together

http://www.youtub...a5r4GG4M
goracle
5 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
You seem to have faith in socialism.


I am totally faithless. I require proof, not relying on a childish story book you fuckwits call the bible, what ever the fuck that word is supposed to mean. From my experiences, the Right are a scourge, including religious types, conservatives, national socialists, fascists, our Liberal and National parties and capitalism.

Take christmas, no please, take it. What a pointless, childish waste of time over nothing, because nothing happened. I ignore bullshit like that and all other religious shit.

I bet you still believe in father christmas too, palin fuckers.

Bible: buy bull

Here is the theme song for Atheists
http://www.youtub...GzZ0tQpA

The theme song for your internal bogey man, perhaps.
freethinking
1 / 5 (2) Dec 16, 2013
Here is one theme song for God: http://www.youtub...dDW_271g

Modernmystic
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
Close, let's rearrange to make it true;it's ME who wants a child to be ALLOWED to learn without prejudice.
No it's you who wants to force parents to teach what you want them to. That's decidedly WITH prejudice.
No, it's their EMPLOYER forcing curriculum. An employer who doesn't want idiots schooled by idiots, but workers with a common core of skills so they can work as a team


We're not talking about schools, we're talking about people thinking it's appropriate to tell parents what they can and can't teach their kids about religion in their own homes. As an atheist I'm beyond appalled at this. I gave both positions to both of my kids. My daughter is a christian and my son is an atheist. I respect BOTH of their decisions and it's no one's place to decide how it's presented. It's not child abuse, indoctrination, or any other sort of nonsense....it's freedom. Deal with it.
BSD
not rated yet Dec 18, 2013
How many of you who are anti-religion speak up and speak out against Islam?


Another religion that needs wiping off the face of the earth. We have the scourge of muslims arriving on boats. If I had my way, they would be shark fodder.

The ones that are here in Australia are in plague proportions. Much like christians.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Dec 18, 2013
How many of you who are anti-religion speak up and speak out against Islam?


Another religion that needs wiping off the face of the earth. We have the scourge of muslims arriving on boats. If I had my way, they would be shark fodder.

The ones that are here in Australia are in plague proportions. Much like christians.

I dare you to be more public about your hate for Islam.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Dec 20, 2013
To BSD, RC and the other atheists, Merry Christmas.

"The spread of the Christian faith outside of its traditional European stomping grounds has become so dangerous to the status quo of many nations that Christians face a life-or-death situation in avowing their faith publicly. This makes the members of this new Christian world phenomenally courageous, but serves to highlight that they are poorer and increasingly less European than the Christians of the past century--a fact that will keep the faith thriving while contributing greatly to its evolving global face."
http://www.breitb...n-Africa
SteveS
1 / 5 (1) Dec 20, 2013
Whitechapel is on the outskirts of London....
ryggesogn2

No it isn't, this line says everything you need to know about the quality of the reporting on the linked hate site.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Dec 20, 2013
Whitechapel is on the outskirts of London....
ryggesogn2

No it isn't, this line says everything you need to know about the quality of the reporting on the linked hate site.

I guess this depends upon how one defines 'London'.
"Whitechapel is a district within East London, England, in the London Borough of Tower Hamlets"
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (1) Dec 20, 2013
"Whitechapel in east London is at the centre of the hate campaign by the 'London Taliban' (file picture)"
http://www.dailym...law.html
White southern Christians are being attacked by 'liberals' for their comments about about women and homosexuals, Muslims are ignored.
Maybe violence does solve problems?
kochevnik
not rated yet Dec 20, 2013
"Whitechapel in east London is at the centre of the hate campaign by the 'London Taliban' (file picture)"
http://www.dailym...law.html
White southern Christians are being attacked by 'liberals' for their comments about about women and homosexuals, Muslims are ignored.
Maybe violence does solve problems?
Theses Muslims are being tolerated because the West uses them for NGOs to funnel drug money to USA and NATO sponsored te**orists. This funds the false flag attacks that USA and NATO then blame on their boogeymen paid agents. That is called a "strategy of tension." That is done to expand the USA and NATO te**or war which is a direct funding replacement for the cold war

Your Muslims are being protected by your government for the purposes of starting future was and fragmenting nations in the Middle and Far East every 80 years. It is called Project Gladio B
BSD
not rated yet Dec 31, 2013
To BSD, RC and the other atheists, Merry Christmas.


That is just like saying...... "To BSD, RC and the other atheists, Tild red but no six."

It's meaningless. That is why I never speak it and never reply when someone says it to me.

Here is some more right wing nonsense.

http://www.reuter...20131230
kochevnik
not rated yet Dec 31, 2013
Happy solstice!

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