US adults score below average on worldwide test

Oct 08, 2013 by Kimberly Hefling

In math, reading and problem-solving using technology—all skills considered critical for global competitiveness and economic strength—American adults scored below the international average on a global test, according to results released Tuesday.

Adults in Japan, Canada, Australia, Finland and multiple other countries scored significantly higher than the United States in all three areas on the test. Beyond basic reading and math, respondents were tested on activities such as calculating mileage reimbursement due to a salesman, sorting email and comparing food expiration dates on grocery store tags.

Not only did Americans score poorly compared to many international competitors, the findings reinforced just how large the gap is between American high- and low-skilled workers and how hard it is to move ahead when your parents haven't.

In both reading and math, for example, those with college educated parents did better than those whose parents did not complete high school.

The study, called the Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies, found that it was easier on average to overcome this and other barriers to literacy overseas than in the United States.

Researchers tested about 166,000 people ages 16 to 65 in more than 20 countries and subnational regions. The test was developed and released by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which is made up of mostly industrialized member countries. The Education Department's Center for Education Statistics participated.

The findings were equally grim for many European countries—Italy and Spain, among the hardest hit by the recession and debt crisis, ranked at the bottom across generations. Unemployment is well over 25 percent in Spain and over 12 percent in Italy. Spain has drastically cut education spending, drawing student street protests.

But in the northern European countries that have fared better, the picture was brighter—and the study credits continuing education. In Finland, Denmark, and the Netherlands, more than 60 percent of adults took part is either job training or continuing education. In Italy, by contrast, the rate was half that.

As the American economy sputters along and many people live paycheck-to-paycheck, economists say a highly-skilled workforce is key to economic recovery. The median hourly wage of workers scoring on the highest level in literacy on the test is more than 60 percent higher than for workers scoring at the lowest level, and those with low literacy skills were more than twice as likely to be unemployed.

"It's not just the kids who require more and more preparation to get access to the economy, it's more and more the adults don't have the skills to stay in it," said Anthony Carnevale, director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.

Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a statement the nation needs to find ways to reach more adults to upgrade their skills. Otherwise, he said, "no matter how hard they work, these adults will be stuck, unable to support their families and contribute fully to our country."

Among the other findings:

—Americans scored toward the bottom in the category of problem solving in a technology rich environment. The top five scores in the areas were from Japan, Finland, Australia, Sweden and Norway, while the U.S. score was on par with England, Estonia, Ireland and Poland. In nearly all countries, at least 10 percent of adults lacked the most basic of computer skills such as using a mouse.

—Japanese and Dutch adults who were ages 25 to 34 and only completed high school easily outperformed Italian or Spanish university graduates of the same age.

—In England, Germany, Italy, Poland, and the United States, social background has a big impact on literacy skills, meaning the children of parents with low levels of education have lower reading skills.

America's school kids have historically scored low on international assessment tests compared to other countries, which is often blamed on the diversity of the population and the high number of immigrants. Also, achievement tests have long shown that a large chunk of the U.S. student population lacks basic reading and math skills—most pronounced among low-income and minority students.

This test could suggest students leaving high school without certain basic skills aren't obtaining them later on the job or in an education program.

The United States will have a tough time catching up because money at the state and local level, a major source of education funding, has been slashed in recent years, said Jacob Kirkegaard, an economist with the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

"There is a race between man and machine here. The question here is always: Are you a worker for whom technology makes it possible to do a better job or are you a worker that the technology can replace?" he said. For those without the most basic skills, he said, the answer will be merciless and has the potential to extend into future generations. Learning is highly correlated with parents' education level.

"If you want to avoid having an underclass—a large group of people who are basically unemployable—this educational system is absolutely key," Kirkegaard said.

Dolores Perin, professor of psychology and education at Teachers College, Columbia University, said the report provides a "good basis for an argument there should be more resources to support adults with low literacy."

Adults can learn new skills at any age and there are adult-geared programs around the country, Perin said. But, she said, the challenge is ensuring the programs have quality teaching and that adults regularly attend classes.

"If you find reading and writing hard, you've been working hard all day at two jobs, you've got a young child, are you actually going to go to class? It's challenging," Perin said.

Some economists say that large skills gap in the United States could matter even more in the future. America's economic competitors like China and India are simply larger than competitors of the past like Japan, Carnevale said. Even while America's top 10 percent of students can compete globally, Carnevale said, that doesn't cut it. China and India did not participate in this assessment.

"The skills in the middle are required and we're not producing them," Carnevale said.

Respondents were selected as part of a nationally represented sample. The test was primarily taken at home using a computer, but some respondents used a printed test booklet.

Among the other findings:

—Japan, Finland, Canada, Netherlands, Australia, Sweden, Norway, Flanders-Belgium, Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, and Korea all scored significantly higher than the United States in all three areas on the test.

—The average scores in literacy range from 250 in Italy to 296 in Japan. The U.S. average score was 270. (500 was the highest score in all three areas.) Average scores in 12 countries were higher than the average U.S. score.

—The average scores in math range from 246 in Spain to 288 in Japan. The U.S. average score was 253, below 18 other countries.

—The average scores on problem solving in technology-rich environments scale for adult ranged from 275 in Poland to 294 in Japan. The U.S. average score was 277, below 14 other countries.

Explore further: First global study confirms widely held practices on science, math, and reading education

More information: Online: www.oecd.org/site/piaac/publications.htm

4.2 /5 (21 votes)
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VendicarE
2.4 / 5 (17) Oct 08, 2013
America will never recover from the destructive nature of American Capitalism, and Conservative Treason.

American Capitalism is making Americans dumber and more cattle like with each passing day.
Noumenon
2.7 / 5 (41) Oct 08, 2013
When statistical studies prove the abject failure of liberal ideology of government control, the leftist try to obfuscate with irrelevant attacks.

The above study is indicative of what the government education system has done. Clearly. Only a denier and liar would blame anything except the government public education system, and the deliberate reduction of educational standards by liberals.

It is a colossal failure only of that entity that has assumed responsibility for public education; the government, and those who support big government.

The USA government spends more money per student than many countries combined, but has failed abysmally.

America will never recover from the destructive nature of American Capitalism, and Conservative Treason.

Do you reside in a capitalist country? If so, aren't you a hypocrite by the same standards you call Rand one? Being anti-capitalist and anti-corporation, makes you a hypocrite who mooches off of the economies wrought by them.
ItsThatGuy
4.4 / 5 (20) Oct 08, 2013
Really? How much cognitive dissonance is required to look at a study showing that countries with much higher funding, strong teacher unions, high government involvement, and extremely liberal policies do much better than us and then blame liberals?
Zera
1.5 / 5 (15) Oct 08, 2013
This is part of a cycle, historically speaking, nations rise, nations fall. A really good read into this would be "The Lucifer Principle - Howard Bloom"

We are a competitive biological entity, at the macro/nation level we are seeing a nation rise and fall, the beautiful thing is, the fall in this case historically would mean death, rape and starvation for the dying nation. As we tie in closer and closer to a world community - the fall is not as far, the destruction to the community is not so complete.

Sure America needs to re-evaluate and I, personally, don't believe they are doing so, I believe they are trying to hold tight to the crown, however, there are upcoming nations at play that want the crown. So the next 3 years will be very interesting, America will have to do some very funky things if it wants to be the Champ again, a lot of which involves world perception.

Just my 2 cents.
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (8) Oct 08, 2013
Really? How much cognitive dissonance is required to look at a study showing that countries with much higher funding, strong teacher unions, high government involvement, and extremely liberal policies do much better than us and then blame liberals?
Texas specifies what content is written in USA schoolbooks. Noumenon is mentally masturbating again
America will never recover from the destructive nature of American Capitalism, and Conservative Treason.

Do you reside in a capitalist country? If so, aren't you a hypocrite by the same standards you call Rand one? Being anti-capitalist and anti-corporation, makes you a hypocrite who mooches off of the economies wrought by them.
American capitalism has only metaphorical relation to real capitalism
Thrasymachus
3 / 5 (7) Oct 08, 2013
Ultimately, every one of us will be a worker that technology will be able to replace. Probably sooner than we expect, too.
Noumenon
2.8 / 5 (37) Oct 08, 2013
Really? How much cognitive dissonance is required to look at a study showing that countries with much higher funding, strong teacher unions, high government involvement, and extremely liberal policies do much better than us and then blame liberals?


Where did it say that other countries spend more on education than the USA? The USA spends the most per student on education, but yet fails. I blame the entity that has assumed that responsibility. Isn't this reasonable? Liberals in America never assess their own failures.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (15) Oct 08, 2013
"The USA spends the most per student on education, but yet fails." - NumenTard

As we prove with NumenTard, RyggTard, and the other tards here every day. you can't educate someone who is willfully ignorant.

In Texas last week, Republicans once again tried to bar the teaching of science in Texas Classrooms with the argument that science constitutes a secular religion and has no place in the classroom.

Yes. American Republicans are that stupid.

VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (12) Oct 08, 2013
"Do you reside in a capitalist country? " - NumenTard

All nations are Capitalist to one degree or another, TardieBoy. And if we look at nations we find that with few exceptions, the more socialist the nation the better educated the populace is.

It is no surprise at all that as America has become more Conservative and Americans have become more reliant on Conservative cognitive dissonance to explain their nations perpetual failures, they have become as dumb as rocks.

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out." - Cont...
VendicarE
2.5 / 5 (10) Oct 08, 2013
Cont...

"We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do." - Ron Suskind quoting an aid to Conservative Republican, Career Criminal, and Faux News employee, Carl Rove.
Gmr
3.9 / 5 (18) Oct 09, 2013
No, and no. It is squarely on the shoulders of those who laud ignorance and praise inexpert uneducated "feelin's" over actual expertise and knowledge and experience.

We have a habit of lauding ignorance and denigrating "book larnin'" in this country. If we talk it down so much, punish people for being "nerds" and "geeks" by social ridicule, we are lucky if anybody wants to be educated, smart, or sound well-read.

Instead we laud the tiny-brained football hero and hail his banal utterances as somehow homespun wisdom. He will lead us. Why? Because physical prowess must equal the favor of a deity, or worthiness, or something. And we like football and masculinity and jingoistic patriotic blind following.

Questioning faith is bad. Questioning some high-falootin' atheist book larnin' is good.
Zera
1.6 / 5 (13) Oct 09, 2013
VendicarE - Heavily borrowed from Shakespeare there... I agree to a degree :P

I would add that there is yet another dimension to the soul emerging, "Man becomes, as it were, the sex organs of the machine world". Even if we don't see the world Ray Kurzweil and others envision, I fervently hope we see technology start to level the playing fields.

Because capitalism allows for momentum, and momentum in the financial world creates momentum in the real world, and those human beings impoverished by either economy, geography or educational process are now so far behind (this is easy enough to see with wage gap) that I personally don't believe the average human being will ever catch up.
Neinsense99
2.5 / 5 (19) Oct 09, 2013
Former Vice President James Danforth Quayle: "Mars is essentially in the same orbit.… Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."

Press comment on Mars exploration (11 August 1989), televised on CNN and referenced in 9/1/89 Washington Post article: "A Quayle Vision of Mars") -- from Wikiquote
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (10) Oct 09, 2013
"I know it sounds far-fetched," David Beckwith says, but what Quayle meant to say is that some scientists think that there may be water beneath the surface of Mars. And that there may be oxides in the Martian soil. And that maybe we can recover the oxygen when we land on Mars and use it to breathe and for fuel to explore the planet.

"He was just trying to simplify it for the television audience," says Beckwith The Vice President's Press Secretary said "So he telescoped it - maybe a bit too much."

I have never encountered a Republican who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Vice President Dan Quayle's Press secretary is no exception.
Neinsense99
1.9 / 5 (17) Oct 09, 2013
"I know it sounds far-fetched," David Beckwith says, but what Quayle meant to say is that some scientists think that there may be water beneath the surface of Mars. And that there may be oxides in the Martian soil. And that maybe we can recover the oxygen when we land on Mars and use it to breathe and for fuel to explore the planet.

"He was just trying to simplify it for the television audience," says Beckwith The Vice President's Press Secretary said "So he telescoped it - maybe a bit too much."

I have never encountered a Republican who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.
Vice President Dan Quayle's Press secretary is no exception.

If he was trying to simplify it, that does not say much for his perceived target demographic.
verkle
2.1 / 5 (23) Oct 09, 2013
Take a look at this scientific poll result:

http://cfif.org/v...emocrats
verkle
2 / 5 (22) Oct 09, 2013
Please credit those Progressive educators at all levels of education for the lack of learning in Democrats – purposefully dumbing them down, purposefully distorting history, purposefully promoting a lifestyle of poverty and victimhood.
verkle
2 / 5 (22) Oct 09, 2013
Hmmm, liberals give scientific results a rating of "1" because they can't stand what it says. They are plugging their ears and closing their eyes to the truth.

kochevnik
1.9 / 5 (9) Oct 09, 2013
@gurgle Hmmm, liberals give scientific results a rating of "1" because they can't stand what it says. They are plugging their ears and closing their eyes to the truth.
Notice that it is YOU playing the victim card? Mixed with an enormous messianic complex? Or are you too inept to realize that?
ThomasQuinn
3.5 / 5 (16) Oct 09, 2013
Please credit those Progressive educators at all levels of education for the lack of learning in Democrats – purposefully dumbing them down, purposefully distorting history, purposefully promoting a lifestyle of poverty and victimhood.


Too bad that all those countries that run rings around the US in scores in this study, Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies, are far more liberal than the US.

Also, as an historian, trained at one of the finest universities in Europe (Leiden), I have first-hand experience with people "purposefully distorting history", and by far the largest group of them are religiously motivated ultra-conservatives. You know, the "Earth-is-6000-years-old" set, "the-nazi's-were-actually-social-democrats" club, the "all-history-books-are-forged-to-make-conservatives-look-bad" nutters, as well as their many, many friends.
antialias_physorg
4.2 / 5 (10) Oct 09, 2013
and by far the largest group of them are religiously motivated ultra-conservatives

Well, sure: if you believe in dogma (be it of a religious or political nature) you don't need to learn - much less understand. You just need to regurgitate dogma.

That that kind of mentality isn't conductive to becoming brainy isn't all that surprising. Smarts don't happen all by themselves.
alfie_null
3.5 / 5 (6) Oct 09, 2013
The USA government spends more money per student than many countries combined, but has failed abysmally.

For example?

If you're going to abuse statistics, you need to be a bit more circumspect about it. We're not yet all dumbed down by poor education. Although, it occurs to me, maybe you are?
Noumenon
3 / 5 (33) Oct 09, 2013
The USA government spends more money per student than many countries combined, but has failed abysmally.

For example?

If you're going to abuse statistics, you need to be a bit more circumspect about it. We're not yet all dumbed down by poor education. Although, it occurs to me, maybe you are?


Wasn't the above study largely academic, ... tested on basic high school level knowledge? I provided a link to the stats I used.

Program for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies [who did the study], are far more liberal than the US. ........ people "purposefully distorting history", and by far the largest group of them are religiously motivated ultra-conservatives.


Bias and peopaganda go hand in hand.
triplehelix
2.8 / 5 (24) Oct 09, 2013
An interesting thing to note is that USA is a heavily religious country.

Japan - 71% irreligious
Canada - 61% irreligious
Finland - 69% irreligious
Australia - 67% irreligious
United States of America - 9% irreligious

Many studies show the more religious a nation, the less they perform on many areas, including education and intelligence.

I am sure if they were to look at religiosity when they mention "different social groups scores range considerably" they would notice this correlation.

You can pretty much get religiosity of country and then it's education scorings and make a very neat correlative graph. Hell I did it to realise this comment post. All you need is google and excel.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (21) Oct 09, 2013
That's why they keep electing socialists, thanks in large part to the 'progressive', union controlled govt indoctrination system call public education.
Gmr
4 / 5 (12) Oct 10, 2013
Odd that learning a few things and broadening your perspective tends to make one less likely to throw a fellow man under the bus. Almost would convince one that perhaps extreme conservativism and racism would be fine bedfellows, or statistically significantly found in association.
VendicarE
2.4 / 5 (7) Oct 10, 2013
"That's why they keep electing socialists" - RyggTard

Because they are smarter than you?

It is sad to see how American Capitalism has destroyed America.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (11) Oct 10, 2013
"An interesting thing to note is that USA is a heavily religious country." - triplehelix

Yes. This is one reason why Americans are so stupid compared to the rest of humanity.

Religionists like RyggTard and U.S. conservatives, have replaced reason with faith based (ideologically based) reasoning.

This is how Libertarian/Randite fools like RygTard and UbVonTard reject demonstrated fact and replace it with some vapid factoids pulled out of their backside which are magically excuse their ideology from failing to mesh with reality.

Witness NumenTard insisting that his hero AynRand wasn't a welfare queen even her own lawyers and the Ayn Rand institute itself claim that she was.

And witness RyggTard insisting - like Rand did with medical scientists - that scientists who oppose her world view with facts are "corrupt communists" who are "on the take", looking to "subvert her liberty", and "destroy america".

It is self evident that these self professed "free thinkers" CONT
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (9) Oct 10, 2013
CONT

"free thinkers" are just employing magical thinking to prop up their ideological, disconnected from reality, world view.

But this isn't the NUT of why America is in such swift decline. The core reason is the promotion of ignorance by American Corporate culture.

Americans have allowed themselves to be enslaved by the "by now and save" culture promoted by Corporations.

They are consumer cattle, cultured by corporate advertising to trade their time and money and mental lives for what are essentially worthless trinkets, sold to them by a corporate culture that uses all manner of legal trickery to convince the cattle to consume.

Buy now and save. 10 percent off of things you don't need.

And in the end what was a family with one working parent who provided for the family's needs is now a two worker family with no parent to raise the children - who themselves are often working as corporate slaves rather than attending school.

What student wants to learnded how to schoolzen CONt
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (11) Oct 10, 2013
cont

What student wants to learnded hows to schoolzen when day gots a job at McDonalds working for their new I-Phones?

And who is there to correct their socially destructive behavior?

Non-existent parents who don't have the time to check if Johnny is doing his homework, and are now so dumb that they wouldn't understand it even if they did check.

Americans are cattle, bred by American Corporations for the purpose of being farmed by American Corporations, for the purpose of being milked by American Corporations.

Suckers....................
VendicarE
2 / 5 (6) Oct 10, 2013
"Take a look at this scientific poll result:" - Verkle

Here are the questions..

http://www.people...11-5.png

Related but not part of the same poll

http://www.people...ge-3.png

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (18) Oct 10, 2013
Almost would convince one that perhaps extreme conservativism and racism would be fine bedfellows, or statistically significantly found in association.


There is a direct correlation that 'liberals' are racists. The KKK was started by democrats. Prominent democrats were members.
'Liberals' demand race based preferences.
'Liberals' cry "racist" when they can't defend their 'liberalism'.
"1) "(Obama's) a nice person, he's very articulate this is what's been used against him, but he couldn't sell watermelons if it, you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic." -- Dan Rather"
"8) "Civil rights laws were not passed to protect the rights of white men and do not apply to them." -- Mary Frances Berry, former Chairwoman, US Commission on Civil Rights"
"11) "Let me see one of you adopt one of those ugly black babies." -- Abortionist Ashutosh Ron Virmani"
http://townhall.c...age/full

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (19) Oct 10, 2013
""Racial Targeting and Population Control," have shown that Planned Parenthood, as well as other independent abortion facilities in America, target both African American and Hispanic communities by making sure their clinics are located in minority-dominated neighborhoods.

The Life Dynamics survey, which cross-examined zip codes of minority neighborhoods and abortion facilities, found that 83% of abortion or abortion-referring clinics are located in minority neighborhoods."
http://www.lifene...-babies/
'Liberals' promote and defend abortion on demand.

One more:
"23) "We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops. They ought to go." -- Marion Barry"
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Oct 10, 2013
That's why they keep electing socialists
Well religionists must prefer socialists then. We know jebus the wondergod certainly did.
http://en.wikiped...ocialism

Acts 2, verses 44 and 45:
"All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."

Acts 4, verse 32:
"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions were his own, but they shared everything they had."
minority neighborhoods and abortion facilities
It would be improper to force people who could not afford to have children because of the inequities of rampant capitalism, to have to take the bus across town. Rich white peoples can drive their lexuses in the other di-rection much easier.

As far as killing babies goes, we know that the israelites preferred to dash canaanite baby heads against rocks in canaan because, uh, thats where the babies were.
kochevnik
3.1 / 5 (13) Oct 10, 2013
@ryggie There is a direct correlation that 'liberals' are racists. The KKK was started by democrats. Prominent democrats were members.
Those were dixiecrats, not democrats. Later the dixiecrats reverted to their true form as rethuglicans. Also not all democrats are liberals. Obama would be to the right of Regan and Nixon. In any case keep lying! It will convince some people who need medication or education
kochevnik
1.8 / 5 (8) Oct 10, 2013
In a short time of thirteen years the USA has gone from a nation of laws to a nation of surveillance. Truth tellers like Snowden and Benjamen Franklin are now classified as traitors, while pathological liars like ryggie and Noumenon are promoted from within

"The irony is that the US has abandoned the rule of law. They've unchained itself from their own constitution – the mechanism by which we govern ourselves. And when you ban the real law and use a secret law and secret interpretations of law, we're in a whole new ball game. It's a Pandora's Box."

Meanwhile people worldwide including Russians are rejecting opaque secrecy in favor of transparency http://rt.com/new...ize-983/
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (17) Oct 10, 2013
"23) "We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops. They ought to go." -- Marion Barry"

Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp

Marion Barry is a dixiecrat?

Also not all democrats are liberals.

Most are now fascists/socialists. Conservative democrats have been driven out of the party.
VendicarE
1.4 / 5 (7) Oct 10, 2013
Marion Barry isn't very bright, and neither are the American adults who elected him.

Americans are growing dumber and dumber with each passing day.

Destroyed by American Capitalism.

kochevnik
2.1 / 5 (7) Oct 11, 2013
Other amazing American facts:

America ranks 51 in life expectancy after Macau and Jordan. Yet the cost of their healthcare spending has increased 86% in the last decade.
Today, U.S. schools rank 25 in math behind Slovenia and Hungary. In science, they rank 17, behind Belgium and Poland.
The US may double its debt-to-GDP ratio within 10 years, at which time interest on that debt alone will equal $1 trillion EACH year.
Almost half the US population lives in a household where at least one family member receives government support
VendicarE
2.2 / 5 (5) Oct 12, 2013
2.5 million Americans are held in the for profit American Gulag system.

Note: The following graphic shows that the mass arrests of Americans started under Reagan.

http://upload.wik....svg.png
Humpty
1.4 / 5 (14) Oct 12, 2013
Merkins are stupid...

They are especially prone to having opinions about things they have no experience of and limited information about.....

Leading to a general incapacity to think and think things through.

https://www.youtu...6ys0sqVQ

https://www.youtu...3MsKMpms

https://www.youtu...IoMjfECo
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (15) Oct 12, 2013
In a short time of thirteen years the USA has gone from a nation of laws to a nation of surveillance.


And koch supports the 'liberal' Regulation/Surveillance state while complaining about it.
beleg
3 / 5 (2) Oct 12, 2013
"We are a competitive biological entity...-Z"
I will help you read, write, and speak. Contribution trumps competition.
The risk of choosing competition over contribution once you have acquired superiority over all others' skills of reading, writing and speech is a risk I accept.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (14) Oct 12, 2013
Contribution trumps competition.

But not FORCED contribution.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (6) Oct 12, 2013
USA... nation of surveillance
-Actually euros are scrutinized much more closely

"Stewart Baker, formerly the NSA's general counsel, told the House Judiciary Committee this month that Europeans are more likely to be spied on by their governments than Americans are by theirs. And he had data to back that up.

"According to the Max Planck Institute, you're 100 times more likely to be surveilled by your own government if you live in the Netherlands or you live in Italy," Baker said. "You're 30 to 50 times more likely to be surveilled if you're a French or a German national than in the United States."

-This includes manipulation by continuous floods of anti-US propaganda. We do not (yet) have cameras on every corner.
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (6) Oct 12, 2013
"And koch supports the 'liberal' Regulation/Surveillance state" - RyggTard

RyggTard produces yet another accusation without evidence.

We do know however that the Patriot act was created and pushed through the U.S. government by Republicans, and We have on Film, Conservative Bush taking credit for creating the NSA program that has been exposed as spying on Americans.

RyggTard's response shows how stupid American Tea-Tards are.

VendicarE
1.8 / 5 (4) Oct 12, 2013
"But not FORCED contribution." - RyggTard

Work or starve to death. The perpetual threat of Capitalism.

Americans are prisoners in their own homes, too frightened to walk down the street out of fear of being assaulted, robbed, or murdered.

Many Americans die every year due to bullets from outside their home, the result of random gunfire, gang violence, etc.

Many Americans have imprisoned themselves in gated communities, surrounded by castle walls, motes, and armed guards.

This is the reality of American "Freedom".
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (6) Oct 12, 2013
Conservative columnist Jeffrey Kuhner claims that polling showing the GOP's popularity dropping to record lows is proof that Republicans are winning the government shutdown fight. Writing for the Washington Times today, Kuhner said that the disastrous polling numbers are all part of a big plan to "win the Obamacare war."

Yes. TeaPublicans really (ARE) that stupid.

They are the core source of American Ignorance.
baudrunner
1 / 5 (11) Oct 12, 2013
The "core source of American ignorance" is trade and consumption of illegal drugs. This impacts on the social fabric to undermine it. In most schools, teachers are having to cope with an unresponsive and disinterested student body whose primary aim at day's end is to "get off". I wouldn't worry, however. Chinese students seem to be pretty dedicated, and I give it another generation or two before their graduates outnumber those of all other ethnic groups in the country and return America to its original direction. Oh, wait, that would be freedom and the pursuit of happiness. Nuts, sometimes you just can't win.
kochevnik
1.7 / 5 (6) Oct 12, 2013
The "core source of American ignorance" is trade and consumption of illegal drugs. This impacts on the social fabric to undermine it.
Americans consume drugs because they have no culture apart from mindless consumerism and feral capitalism, and a media which solely functions to further entrenched interests. With a social fabric like that in the US, undermining is simply a rational choice

Americans choose economic transactions as the baseline for their social connection, whereas elsewhere the baseline is shared experiences. This allows them to be socially lazy and expedites petty consumerism, at the price of personal isolation and knowing they will likely die alone and forgotten. Children stuff their parents in a nursing homes, with an average life expectancy of 18 months
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Oct 12, 2013
Russian drug use is because they have no culture?
"Continual use of Krokodil causes blood vessels to burst, leaving skin green and scaly among addicts eventually causing gangrene and their flesh to begin to rot.

Rabid use in Russia has caused up to 2.5 million people to register and seek treatment as addicts and the average life span for a user is only two to three years."
"In Russia, Krokodil usage is spreading like a virus among young people and according to a Time magazine investigation, even those who manage to quit their addiction come away disfigured for life."

Read more: http://www.dailym...hYOcHVal
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
pauljpease
5 / 5 (2) Oct 12, 2013
When teaching is one of the lowest paid professions requiring a college degree, what do you expect? Why do companies someone tens of millions of dollars? So they can get the best person for the job. If you don't want the bottom-of-the-college-degree-barrel (and often the people who couldn't do math) teaching the next generation of Americans, increase teacher wages and benefits to make them competitive with industry jobs. And by competitive, in reality that probably means slightly higher, as there are so many negative aspects of teaching that for equal pay most people wouldn't choose to teach. I've worked in biotech industry, academia and as a high school teacher, and teaching is by far the most demanding and mentally exhausting. And it is the one where slight differences in daily performance have the biggest effect on the future prosperity of the nation's economy. The only problem is that the funding has to come from government, so the anarchists will always fight it.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Oct 12, 2013
Children stuff their parents in a nursing homes, with an average life expectancy of 18 months

Thanks to socialism, Romanian parents stuffed their children into state orphanages.

"Banned from any form of contraception, many couples had more children than they wanted or could afford to keep, and left them in state care. "
http://news.bbc.c...9589.stm

From France:
"With temperatures exceeding 100 degrees, Mazeyrie said that "particularly elderly people, people living in hotels and alone, were the victims, often of cardiac arrest." Four of every five elderly victims, he estimated, "died because of the heat."

Mazeyrie said many elderly people were left behind by vacationing families. "
http://articles.c...-elderly
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (16) Oct 12, 2013
The only problem is that the funding has to come from government,

Why?
If it MUST, they why not follow the Swedish example, vouchers?
Private schools can then pay good teachers without interference form socialist unions.
kochevnik
1.8 / 5 (5) Oct 12, 2013
Children stuff their parents in a nursing homes, with an average life expectancy of 18 months
@ryggie Thanks to socialism, Romanian parents stuffed their children into state orphanages.
Seriously you're comparing gypsies to other cultures?
barakn
3 / 5 (4) Oct 12, 2013
""Racial Targeting and Population Control," have shown that Planned Parenthood, as well as other independent abortion facilities in America, target both African American and Hispanic communities by making sure their clinics are located in minority-dominated neighborhoods. -ryggesogn2
97% of Planned Parenthood's budget goes to to basic health care, not abortion. Planned Parenthood targets minorities because they need health care. Of course it is your job to lie about what Planned Parenthood's basic function is. The conservative attitude is that the poor and middle class should be destroyed financially by health issues and then die in poverty and misery, and conservatives would rather destroy the American economy than see access to health care extended to all Americans. Luckily recent polling shows that Americans see through the conservative web of lies and properly lay blame for the current fiscal crisis at the feet of the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (6) Oct 12, 2013
"The conservative attitude is that the poor and middle class should be destroyed financially by health issues and then die in poverty and misery, and conservatives would rather destroy the American economy than see access to health care extended to all Americans." - barakin

Correct.

Do you remember Sandra Fluke, the Georgetown Law Student who testified on behalf of the contraception mandate last year and then became the focus of the Religious Right's anti-choice/anti-sex ire?

Republican Bauer: Praising A 'Promiscuous Co-Ed' Like Sandra Fluke Is A Sign Of 'Civilization Decline'

http://www.youtub...N0yF5goY
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (17) Oct 12, 2013
"In 2009, Planned Parenthood conducted 332,278 abortions. This is three percent of the 11 million services it provided. Clients, however, often receive multiple services. A woman receiving a yearly gynecological exam would likely be counted as one of the 900,000 pap tests, 800,000 breast exams, and other services. Planned Parenthood had 3 million clients, making women receiving an abortion around 10 percent of its clients."
http://www.christ...ood.html
Seriously you're comparing gypsies to other cultures?

Where is the 'liberal' cry of racism?
Note the Romanians could not care for their children because of the 'culture' of socialism.
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Oct 12, 2013
"In 2009, Planned Parenthood conducted 332,278 abortions" - RyggTard

Conservatives like RyggTard violently oppose reproductive Liberty for women.

If you 12 year old daughter gets pregnant for whatever reason it is best that she die in child birth rather than have an abortion.

At least according to American Conservatives.

Filth.

VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (7) Oct 12, 2013
Another Failure by Corporate America...

BOSTON (CBS/AP) - People in Ohio, Michigan and 15 other states found themselves unable to use their food stamp debit-style cards on Saturday, after a routine test of backup systems by vendor Xerox Corp. resulted in a system failure.

Republicans were quick to blame the Obama Administration for the failure, when it was not at all involved.

Liars.

kochevnik
1.9 / 5 (7) Oct 12, 2013
Republicans were quick to blame the Obama Administration for the failure, when it was not at all involved.
And who wants to see more Americans on food stamps? It is JP Morgan front man for the Rothschilds banksters. Bank of America, actually Bank of Italy is heavily involved in unemployment card fund distribution
@ryggie Note the Romanians could not care for their children because of the 'culture' of socialism.
So nice you can solve the problem of gypsy children as 'socialism.' Indeed mafia are now trafficking gypsy children around Europe as children under fourteen cannot be criminally charged, leaving police impotent. So glad that is just socialism and not the blowback from conservaturd austerity programs. Genius you are
VendicarE
2.6 / 5 (7) Oct 12, 2013
What Republicans have done to America.... Again...

NOAA
http://government...oaa.gov/

NASA
http://notice.usa.gov/

Uncle Sam is the Laughing stock of the world.
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (17) Oct 13, 2013
This explains BHO:

"If they want to survive, dictators don't blink. If they seem vulnerable, they are lost."
http://www.nytime...amp;_r=0
"Under the strict leadership of Nicolae Ceausescu, both abortion and contraception were banned in 1980s Romania. Ceausescu's goal was to provide the labor/population needed to jump start the economic and industrial machine that he envisioned Romania to be. These policies, which essentially encouraged pregnancy led to a massive rise in birth rates that took the country by storm. Thousands of children were placed in the care of state orphanages,"

Read more: http://whymycount...hbByizdu

o nice you can solve the problem of gypsy children as 'socialism.'

It was socialist tyranny that populated the orphanages.

ThomasQuinn
3.5 / 5 (6) Oct 13, 2013
"In 2009, Planned Parenthood conducted 332,278 abortions. This is three percent of the 11 million services it provided. Clients, however, often receive multiple services. A woman receiving a yearly gynecological exam would likely be counted as one of the 900,000 pap tests, 800,000 breast exams, and other services. Planned Parenthood had 3 million clients, making women receiving an abortion around 10 percent of its clients."
http://www.christ...ood.html
Seriously you're comparing gypsies to other cultures?

Where is the 'liberal' cry of racism?
Note the Romanians could not care for their children because of the 'culture' of socialism.


You're more than 20 years late. Romania is now the European country where Christian fundamentalists have most political power.
finitesolutions
1.5 / 5 (8) Oct 13, 2013
Nice to see you bringing up my country Romania into this discussion. I grew up under Ceausescu's communist regime and I can tell you I had a happy childhood. My parents were regular workers and they did take good enough care about me. Orphanages were special cases that unfortunately were mismanaged.
Ceausescu's legacy is not a bad one : almost half of the cities buildings were built in around 30 years of ruling. Romania was way more productive in the communist years than now. Hell even trains ran faster. If Ceausescu would have been alive Romania would be full of highways by now. There were no bums or unemployed people in the communist times : everybody had a working place. Romania today is ran by some western ass kissing lackey politicians that lack balls and vision. But I am optimistic about the strength of my country and its future success. Salutari.
baudrunner
1.4 / 5 (11) Oct 13, 2013
@ryggesogn2 Why you managed to slip in this tidbit about krokodil (desomorphine) is beyond me. The less people know about this stupid drug, the better.

However, a case may be made for the publication of the safest way to synthesize a pure version of the drug as the lesser of two evils, since it is the impure product of synthesis procedures by inexperienced amateur home "chemists" that produce the horrible symptoms you see in those photos and videos out of Russia. The procedure is fairly simple, and I foresee a serious and tragic epidemic around the corner if young people are not educated about it. Seriously, teaching them how to make a pure product is justifiable in this case. Not that i condone any form of IV drug use, because it ultimately sucks the life out of the user.

ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (17) Oct 13, 2013
Why you managed to slip in this tidbit about krokodil (desomorphine) is beyond me.

koch: "Americans consume drugs because they have no culture apart from mindless consumerism and feral capitalism,"
Why do Russians consume drugs?
Ceausescu's legacy is not a bad one

"People believe Ceausescu did many good things... that he gave the people houses, jobs, and good salaries. His mistake, they think, was that he didn't put food in the shops."

It's a stupid line of thinking, he says, but quite a commonly-held one. The flats were small and cramped, the jobs were often unproductive. And people have too easily forgotten the all-pervading fear of the secret police. "
http://news.bbc.c...0213.stm
If Ceausescu was so loved why was he summarily executed?
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (16) Oct 13, 2013
Maybe fini did not see this side of Romania:
http://www.demogr...er25.pdf
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (12) Oct 13, 2013
This is interesting, but I'd like to see more demographic information. Who are they testing?

Are uniquely American issues concerning population diversity considered?

Education isn't a one-size-fits-all affair. The percentage of immigrants who are functionally illiterate in English is quite high. They'd naturally score poorly on an English-based exam, even though they may otherwise be well educated.

ryggesogn2
1.4 / 5 (18) Oct 13, 2013
The percentage of immigrants who are functionally illiterate in English is quite high

The functionally illiterate graduates from union run US public schools is too high.
rah
1 / 5 (11) Oct 13, 2013
No surprise really. It confirms the reason the United States is in an irreversible decline. The average American is not smart enough or educated enough to compete with most other citizens from the first tier countries. It's getting to the point that most US high school graduates can't talk good American no more.
ubavontuba
1.6 / 5 (14) Oct 14, 2013
No surprise really. It confirms the reason the United States is in an irreversible decline. The average American is not smart enough or educated enough to compete with most other citizens from the first tier countries. It's getting to the point that most US high school graduates can't talk good American no more.
Americans aint never talked "good American," not no-how anyway. There are all sorts of regional dialects.

What appears to be misunderstood here is the diversity of Americans. That a person may test poorly on a standardized English-based test has little bearing on their intellect, over all.

Besides, America's strength comes from its "can do spirit," inherited from all those who left everything behind to give it a go here.

I personally know immigrants from virtually every region of the world. None, I know, has indicated they'd like to go back. Quite the opposite. Most wish they'd come sooner.

antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (7) Oct 14, 2013
Well, while I was in the states in high school (which is a few decades back, admittedly) the honors roll was pretty much segregated:
Up top the asians and people from india. Then europeans. Then americans, Then hispanics.

Whether there's a fundamental difference in intelligence I can't say. But there certainly was a fundamental difference in how students from these groups approached their classwork. (With americans mostly of the opinion that it was the teacher's responsibility that they learn anything. To the point where some didn't even prepare for tests because they demanded that they be taught stuff without them putting in any effort)

Intelligence is something you can train to a certain extent. It's like a muscle. If you don't excercise it it won't develop on its own.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (27) Oct 14, 2013
With americans mostly of the opinion that it was the teacher's responsibility that they learn anything. [...] they demanded that they be taught stuff without them putting in any effort


This is an excellent point, and is the core problem, imo.

It is why I think the decline is due to indoctrination of the Leftist culture of nanny state dependency, collectivism, anti-individualism, anti-competition, and victimization mentality. Personal accountability is not advocated by leftist politics because their mode of operation is 'government is the solution'.

Whether there's a fundamental difference in intelligence I can't say.


How could there be an intrinsic difference wrt intelligence when 'American' is not a race, and is made up of mostly Europeans, at one time, in any case even if it was possible to extract culture from race to determine that, which I doubt.

If the notion of dependency and victimization is ingrained in a culture, it can only decline.
Noumenon
3.1 / 5 (26) Oct 14, 2013
The percentage of immigrants who are functionally illiterate in English is quite high

The functionally illiterate graduates from union run US public schools is too high.


They have lowered the education standards to match their general incompetence and because of their implicit racism of patronization. The teachers unions even reject any mechanism of competition and quantitative measures of their performance. The American public schools is another resounding failure of government.
ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (17) Oct 14, 2013
America's strength comes from its "can do spirit,"

The 'liberal's' destroying the 'can do spirit' with regulations and welfare.
None, I know, has indicated they'd like to go back.

So why do they vote for the same type of socialist regimes they escaped?
antialias_physorg
2.5 / 5 (4) Oct 14, 2013
Personal accountability is not advocated by leftist politics because their mode of operation is 'government is the solution'.

One could also argue the converse that litigous parties (even parents) have found ways to sue because they think teachers are at fault for the low achievements of their kids.

As always the problem is more complex than 'leftist' or 'right wing'. It's a combination of underfunding (teachers have a pitiful salary in the states...not surprising that teaching is not a prime career choice for highly skilled people) and a mentality of entitlement or "american superiority just because on is american" that is drummed into the psyche of kids and adults (the latter being employed by all parties - right and left).

How could there be an intrinsic difference wrt intelligence

As I said: intelligence is as much a product of training/upbringing as it is of genes. If it doesn't get fostered then it atrophies.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (30) Oct 14, 2013
As to the question, why then do other left wing leaning countries do better than the USA wrt education.... I don't have an answer except to say that perhaps it is pointless to compare midgets. It requires a contextual analysis. In the USA "progressive liberalism" has been a degenerating influence.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (28) Oct 14, 2013
Personal accountability is not advocated by leftist politics because their mode of operation is 'government is the solution'.


One could also argue the converse that litigous parties (even parents) have found ways to sue because they think teachers are at fault for the low achievements of their kids.


I don't see such law suits en masse here that would account for this. In any case, how is that a converse point? They both speak to personal accountability.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (15) Oct 14, 2013
teachers have a pitiful salary in the states

Not all states.
"The best-paid 10 percent in the field made approximately $84,000, while the bottom 10 percent made approximately $35,940. The highest-paid in the profession work in the metropolitan areas of New York City and Chicago. Compensation is usually subject to years of experience and educational level. "
http://money.usne...r/salary
VendicarE
2.2 / 5 (5) Oct 14, 2013
"The flats were small and cramped, the jobs were often unproductive." - RyggTard

How many Americans are homeless? Isn't it around 600,000 people?

Do you think they would prefer a cramped apartment vs living in a ditch?

"The number of homeless people grew in the 1980s, as housing and social service cuts increased and the economy deteriorated. " - Wikipedia

Over 80% of all labor in the capitalist U.S. economy is unproductive.

VendicarE
2 / 5 (6) Oct 14, 2013
"As to the question, why then do other left wing leaning countries do better than the USA wrt education.... I don't have an answer except to say that perhaps it is pointless to compare midgets." - NumenTard

And yet NumenTard DOES have an answer, one that he has been given at least a dozen times over.

The reason is the failure of American society, specifically the lack of adequate socialization of American children which has resulted from a lack of parenting that has resulted from the destruction of the American family that is the inevitable result of American Capitalism now demanding that both parents work - and often requiring the children work as well.

American Capitallsm has produced the decline in American Intelligence.

Why should a little girl waste all that time in school when Capitalists through the media constantly tell her that her worth is only due to her ability to exploit her beauty? Stripping and Prostitution are her pretty women dream professions.

CONT
VendicarE
2.7 / 5 (7) Oct 14, 2013
And as to little boys, isn't it made clear to them that nerds make peanuts working in basements while sports hero's are lavished with hundreds of millions of dollars?

Doesn't drug dealing pay a higher wage than starting in the U.S. workforce?

Doesn't U.S. Capitalism teach that profits must be maximized? Doesn't that translate for the worker to being the laziest worker possible at the highest wage possible?

Doesn't dealing drugs serve that end?
VendicarE
2.8 / 5 (6) Oct 14, 2013
"The 'liberal's' destroying the 'can do spirit' with regulations and welfare." - RyggTard

http://www.youtub...51kMBwms - Obama - Yes we can

RyggTard's problem of course, is that whatever Americans can do, the Chinese Can do faster, cheaper and better.

Isn't that why Republicans have been assisting American Corporations to move American jobs to that country and other pacific rim countries and India?

Neinsense99
1.8 / 5 (10) Oct 14, 2013
"The flats were small and cramped, the jobs were often unproductive." - RyggTard

How many Americans are homeless? Isn't it around 600,000 people?

Do you think they would prefer a cramped apartment vs living in a ditch?

"The number of homeless people grew in the 1980s, as housing and social service cuts increased and the economy deteriorated. " - Wikipedia

Over 80% of all labor in the capitalist U.S. economy is unproductive.


Small homes need not be cramped, ugly or inferior. See these images from Tokyo: https://www.googl...;bih=753 or http://appbank.us...g-skills
Neinsense99
1.7 / 5 (11) Oct 14, 2013
"But not FORCED contribution." - RyggTard

Work or starve to death. The perpetual threat of Capitalism.

Americans are prisoners in their own homes, too frightened to walk down the street out of fear of being assaulted, robbed, or murdered.

Many Americans die every year due to bullets from outside their home, the result of random gunfire, gang violence, etc.

Many Americans have imprisoned themselves in gated communities, surrounded by castle walls, motes, and armed guards.

This is the reality of American "Freedom".

Even more the reality for Native Americans, other than the penultimate paragraph.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (31) Oct 14, 2013
"The flats were small and cramped, the jobs were often unproductive." - RyggTard

How many Americans are homeless? Isn't it around 600,000 people?

Do you think they would prefer a cramped apartment vs living in a ditch?

"The number of homeless people grew in the 1980s, as housing and social service cuts increased and the economy deteriorated. " - Wikipedia

Over 80% of all labor in the capitalist U.S. economy is unproductive.



Unfortunately for VendiTard the facts show that the USA remains http://en.wikiped...elopment wrt standard of living. Sounds like a resounding success to me, unlike Vendickare's gross smelly country.
VendicarE
3 / 5 (8) Oct 14, 2013
NumenTard.

Note how the U.S. has risen 1 notch under a Liberal Government while New Zealand the Netherlands, Ireland and Canada have fallen under their Conservative Governments.
VendicarE
2.9 / 5 (10) Oct 14, 2013
NumenTard seems most eager to avoid discussing the measured reality that Adults in the U.S. rank below those of the first world Socialist states when it comes to intelligence.

NumenTard has no answers, just evasions.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (29) Oct 14, 2013
@CommieFace,

Those ratings are not a measure of the effect of a particular political identity, but rather economic success which reflects intrinsic economic foundations, quite contrary to your claims of 'failure of American capitalism and slavery at the hands of corporations'.

Even a liberal like Obama is forced by facts to admit that "the free market is the greatest force for economic progress in history",.... and it is clear that the American economy, even in recession, is the greatest in human history.

If Ayn Rand was a hypocrite for accepting SS, isn't anti-capitalist Vendicar a hypocrite for mooching off of the success of capitalism? Even China must bow to it, and invest in American capitalism.

ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (18) Oct 14, 2013
Rand's character John Galt in Atlas Shrugged had the right idea to oppose socialism, shrug.
Galt and his fellow Atli liquidated all assets and moved them out of reach of the state where they waited for the inevitable collapse.
I would recommend another tactic, take all the state benefits one is entitled to take accelerating the collapse of the entitlement and the state. Work minimum wage jobs, live as cheaply as possible to pay as few taxes as one can. It is an analogy of the tragedy of the commons.
Socialists must have capitalists to plunder or the system will collapse. Unfortunately there are too many crony capitalists that believe they are using the power of the state to crush their competition, but as Rand points out in A.S., it is the fascist state that is controlling the 'crapitalists'.
It is interesting to note that Rand believed her philosophy was objective and called it objectivism. Some here assert this is a science site and one must be objective, except for socialism.
kochevnik
2.2 / 5 (6) Oct 14, 2013
@CommieFace,
From someone who does not know that communism is a fascist, right-wing movement invented by religionists
Even a liberal like Obama is forced by facts to admit that "the free market is the greatest force for economic progress in history",.... and it is clear that the American economy, even in recession, is the greatest in human history.
If Obama is a liberal then Richard Nixon was a hippie. As always you fail to acknowledge that you're demanding a DEREGULATED market, not a FREE market. Deregulated is the OPPOSITE of free
If Ayn Rand was a hypocrite for accepting SS, isn't anti-capitalist Vendicar a hypocrite for mooching off of the success of capitalism? Even China must bow to it, and invest in American capitalism.
After thursday China may want their investment back
NumenTard has no answers, just evasions.
Exactly. You just revealed his core philosophy, a modus operandi at the heart of conservatism
kochevnik
2.4 / 5 (5) Oct 14, 2013
@Noumenon It is why I think the decline is due to indoctrination of the Leftist culture of nanny state dependency, collectivism, anti-individualism, anti-competition, and victimization mentality.
These are the the specific deficiencies of religionists, not liberals
Howhot
3 / 5 (6) Oct 14, 2013
About half of the American people are lied to as kid about politics, positions on issues, and a general philosophy of governance. Being lied to is not just the fault of parents, but various popular medias and propaganda outlets are dominated with anti-science view points. These are the realms of the anti-liberal, pro-creationist, pro-teaparty goof-balls that march on the WH waving confederate flags!!!

How stupid does it get? In the mean-time from the article;

In math, reading and problem-solving using technology—all skills considered critical for global competitiveness and economic strength—American adults scored below the international average on a global test


That means mostly you right wingers have dragged the average down. Thanks a lot again to the POS that are so concerned about about a budget, but don't give a rat's about a Pell grants or Head Start, or any method to develop the skills and educational base needed to compete in the global economy!!! USA USA USA
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Oct 15, 2013
@R2 rambles about stuff and say a few things;
People will "take all the state benefits one is entitled to take, work minimum wage jobs, live as cheaply as possible to pay as few taxes as one can." "The socialists must have capitalists to plunder!" and "crony capitalist buy and pay for favors" with the end result that "it is the fascist state that is controlling the 'crapitalists'." or perhaps via-versa.

Its a small world.

animah
5 / 5 (3) Oct 15, 2013
The American public schools is another resounding failure of government.

The UCs (LA, Berkeley, SD, Davis etc) are all public universities. I really don't see anything wrong with them.

Also it's schools *are*...
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (7) Oct 15, 2013
Being lied to is not just the fault of parents, but various popular medias and propaganda outlets

Being lied to is pretty systematic in all countries. Having had the benefit of looking at textbooks from various countries as a student I noticed there's a lot of stuff in there (especially the history books) that is wildely inaccurate and always incredibly biased towards the country of origin (the most hilarious stuff I found were the missile gap, bomber gap, submarine gap and whatnot-gap that filled pages and pages in US history books...which by now we know never existed)

He who controls history controls how a people will think...and I've seen that it works.
The US is imbued with a pervasive atmosphere of (completely unfounded) paranoia and fear of 'invasion' and 'takeover' that flies in the face of all facts as to their imagined opponents (japanese in WWII; russians in the cold war; chinese, islamists and terrorists now ... )

The public is being played - artfully.
Noumenon
3 / 5 (25) Oct 15, 2013
The American public schools is another resounding failure of government.

The UCs (LA, Berkeley, SD, Davis etc) are all public universities. I really don't see anything wrong with them.


How well does the above study reflect college grads, who pay a tuition fee? Perhaps if tax money was given back to the public and a tuition fee charged for all public schools, there would be more personal accountability wrt education.

Also it's schools *are*...


Thanks for this, now I know what the difference between "is" and "are" are, I mean, is. In context I was referring to the notion of government run public schools as a concept, not individual schools,... I should have said 'system', but these are just comments after all, chill.

ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (14) Oct 15, 2013
The American public schools is another resounding failure of government.

The UCs (LA, Berkeley, SD, Davis etc) are all public universities. I really don't see anything wrong with them.

Also it's schools *are*...

Are the professors members of a teacher's union? Are they required to have a teaching certificate? Are students forced to attend? Do all students receive free tuition?
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (15) Oct 15, 2013
After thursday China may want their investment back

Sure. The Federal Reserve will just order more dollars to be printed.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (8) Oct 15, 2013
the public is being played artfully
-That would of course include überliberal euros such as yourself who are willing to cherry-pick facts to support the eurodisney fantasies they are given?

The US was initially ahead in the arms race but the soviets quickly surpassed them in shear numbers and overall destructive power.
http://en.wikiped...rms_race

No matter what spin the facts are given, the FACT of inevitable overpopulation and resulting aggression makes enemies INEVITABLE. The US public was given the choice; the soviet public watched as millions of their countrymen were shipped off to gulag.

Without the threat of MAD the soviets would have swept over Europe after the war. How do we know this? Because they SAID so. Do you deny these facts AA?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Oct 15, 2013
Planned parenthood... Mostly healthcare
The purpose of PP is indicated in it's name; to give women the ability to determine when they will bear children. Any healthcare they offer is in support of this.

One third of all pregnancies are aborted in the US, one half in Russia. Untold numbers are prevented by the availability of contraception and counciling through PP and similar agencies around the world. As a result zero growth of indigene pops has been achieved in western countries, and stability and peace have been the direct result.

But the world pop is still projected to pass 15 billion within a few gens. Why? Religion FORCES women to do nothing else but make babies until it kills them.

The result? Unending conflict in the third world. Disease, poverty, starvation, and abuse of all sorts. Refugees flood across borders. The Mediterranean is a graveyard of sunken boats full of desperate men, women, and children.

If you want to end this horror AND abortion, then end religion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (7) Oct 15, 2013
US imbued with unfounded paranoia
AA doesn't want to consider the fact that, as a middle class professional, he too would have been sent off to Siberia had the soviets annexed west Germany.

And again the very real threat of an Islamist Eurabia threatens similar results. How do we know this? Well for one, it is written into the doctrine of such groups as the muslim brotherhood exactly as it was in the Comintern.

AAs anti-US paranoia blinds him to some major facts of grave personal import.
Howhot
4.2 / 5 (6) Oct 16, 2013
@R2
After thursday China may want their investment back

Sure. The Federal Reserve will just order more dollars to be printed.

No - not really that simple. What ever we pay China will probably not be printed paper bills. China will be paid with the "Full faith and credit" of the USA.

But typical of the republicans over reaching demands, that now has us in danger. We are a danger to China, and every other nation that has investments in us! Thanks to teaparty and that ilk.

Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Oct 16, 2013
About half of the American people are lied to as kids about politics, positions on issues, and a general philosophy of governance. Being lied to is not just the fault of parents, but popular medias and propaganda outlets are dominated with anti-science view points. These are the realms of the anti-liberal, pro-creationist, pro-teaparty goof-balls that march on the WH waving confederate flags!!!
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Oct 16, 2013
over reaching demands

It is the 'liberals' who DEMAND more govt spending while killing economic growth.
kochevnik
1.6 / 5 (5) Oct 16, 2013
over reaching demands
It is the 'liberals' who DEMAND more govt spending while killing economic growth.
You have make that lie at least ten times. The spending or republican presidents discredits you
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (16) Oct 16, 2013
Note I said 'liberals'.
Hayek wrote The Road to Serfdom for the socialists of all parties.
PeterParker
3.5 / 5 (8) Oct 16, 2013
"It is the 'liberals' who DEMAND more govt spending while killing economic growth." - RyggTard

Virtually all of that spending is due to the expansion of the welfare rolls due to the economic mismanagement of the nation by Republicans and TeaTard Morons.

"Borrowing a trillion dollars plus was the greatest thing we ever did" - Reagan Budget Advisor.

Mr_Science
1.3 / 5 (11) Oct 16, 2013
The truth of the matter is someone had to be below average or there wouldn't be an average. Below average doesn't mean stupid. The below average genius is still a genius.

With the above said joined with the information I get from the comments further above, news, media, friends, and family back in the US I have come to the conclusion the US has collectively agreed to embrace ignorance.

Examples could be found in the US TV shows, Movies, Music, biased news organizations, the underfunding of education, the politicians elected, and the anti-science movement.

Don't get me wrong, I was born in the US and raised there. There was a time I was proud of that fact. However, seeing what the US has turned into over the past 30 years I am glad I left.
PeterParker
3.1 / 5 (9) Oct 16, 2013
"If Ayn Rand was a hypocrite for accepting SS, isn't anti-capitalist Vendicar a hypocrite for mooching off of the success of capitalism?" - NumenTartd

Welfare queen Ayn Rand was certainly a worthless excuse for a person and yes a Hypocrite.

I on the other hand do not oppose Capitalism. If well regulated, and limited in extent, Capitalism can be acceptable.

The ongoing destruction of America by Capitalism provides a good negative example of the threats to person and country by Capitalists and Capitalism.

Capitalism corrupts everything it comes in contact with.

Tell your daughter to prostitute herself if you believe otherwise.
ThomasQuinn
2.5 / 5 (8) Oct 17, 2013
If it weren't so exceedingly sad and worrisome, it'd be extremely funny to see how some rightist maniacs on this site are blaming poor American education stats on "the left", and then, when confronted with the obvious fact that the countries that beat the hell out of the US in education are considerably further to the left than the US, they resort to slurs about "midgets" and depart from the actual facts altogether.

If this is any indication, it suggests that the real problem is the multi-decade fight by the American religious right to deny facts and fight science. The relentless propaganda labeling every scientific discovery or factual statement that does not align with rightist ideology as "leftist un-American propaganda" seems to be responsible for creating textbooks that do not teach anything valuable, teachers who are barred from teaching for fear of "leftist indoctrination" and general nihilism with regards to science. Bottom line: the right hates intelligence.
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (15) Oct 17, 2013
blaming poor American education stats on "the left"

Teacher's unions.
University education departments and university multi-culteral departments forcing students to learn irrelevant history.
Teachers and administrators afraid to discipline and expel students.
So why do 'liberal' universities have speech codes and tolerate indoctrination?
"Rather than expressing concern at Dekmejian's use of his podium to indoctrinate impressionable students with his radical views – which is a clear violation of their academic freedom, University Provost and Senior Vice President for Academic Affairs Elizabeth Garrett defended the professor, "
http://www.studen...-freedom
ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (15) Oct 17, 2013
"An eight-year-old second grader wrote a composition saying that he wanted to be a soldier like his grandfather. "If you ever write anything like that again, you are going straight to the principal's office," the teacher threatened. When his mother complained, the teacher denied the incident and accused the child of making the story up. But the mother was able to confirm the story with two of the child's classmates. The child himself was so upset that he didn't want to return to class."
""My own U.S. history teacher instructed us that our nation's past fears about Communism were unjustified; in fact, that capitalism had been a sinister force in the world," reported one student, a recent graduate from Santa Monica High school. "We were told that through America's history as a 'terrorist nation,' she brought upon herself the sinister attacks of 9/11.""
http://freedomcen...nts.org/
VendicarE
4 / 5 (4) Oct 17, 2013
"An eight-year-old second grader wrote a composition" - RyggTard

There is no such text at the site given by RyggTard.

He has a long history of making up crased Tea_Tard nonsense.

VendicarE
4 / 5 (4) Oct 17, 2013
"forcing students to learn irrelevant history." - RyggTard

Perhaps Tardieboy can tell us what "irrelevant history" is?

Irrelevent to whom?

ryggesogn2
1.3 / 5 (16) Oct 17, 2013
the right hates intelligence.

Los Angelese schools are run by 'liberals'.
"More schools opening Advanced Placement courses to all students "
"Schools increasingly pursue egalitarian outcomes rather than tailor instruction to students based on their individual needs. Kids at both ends of the ability spectrum are hurt in the process.

It's ironic how tests have been re-purposed in the service of egalitarianism. The SAT is normally used by selective colleges to help differentiate applicants, but now the College Board uses it to push a college-for-all ideology."
http://www.latime...y?page=1
VendicarE
3.8 / 5 (4) Oct 17, 2013
"Los Angelese schools are run by 'liberals'." - RyggTard

But American society has been destroyed by Capitalism.

From RyggTard's own link...

"Long considered an elite track for the most talented and ambitious students, AP classes are now seen as beneficial for any students willing to push themselves — and schools are increasingly viewing access to them as a basic educational right. But that has come with challenges and controversy." - Article

Poor RyggTard, You really should read the links you post.

More than half of them don't say what you claim they say, and many report the opposite of what you imply that they report.

RyggTard's IQ is clearly lower than the human norm.

VendicarE
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 17, 2013
Just how stupid are Americans?

This stupid...

Dead Baby Found In Teen's Bag Inside Manhattan Victoria's Secret
VendicarE
4 / 5 (4) Oct 17, 2013
"the Party of "no" is once again at work trying to destroy America by preventing government from working.

"Republican Senator Ted Cruz, a conservative whose defiant stand against Obamacare helped prompt the U.S. government shutdown, has blocked the Senate from voting on the nomination of Tom Wheeler to be Federal Communications Commission chairman"

http://ca.news.ya...887.html
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Oct 17, 2013
the right hates intelligence.

Los Angelese schools are run by 'liberals'.
That is a pretty broad paint brush.

"More schools opening Advanced Placement courses to all students "
It's not an exclusive club, and kids in advanced placement tend to be more serious about work. What parent wouldn't want their kid in advanced placement. I did the same thing. I took HS Physics without the pre-req. Its not a big deal.

"Schools increasingly pursue egalitarian outcomes rather than tailor instruction to students based on their individual needs. Kids at both ends of the ability spectrum are hurt in the process.

It's ironic how tests have been re-purposed in the service of egalitarianism. The SAT is normally used by selective colleges to help differentiate applicants, but now the College Board uses it to push a college-for-all ideology."
That is some Tea_party prick's BS opinion. How do you find these gems @R2?
Howhot
3.7 / 5 (6) Oct 17, 2013
Good call @Vendi.
"forcing students to learn irrelevant history." - RyggTard

Perhaps Tardieboy can tell us what "irrelevant history" is?

Irrelevent to whom?


Yes, @R2, please inform us; Irrelevent to whom?
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (6) Oct 17, 2013
"The SAT is normally used by selective colleges to help differentiate applicants" - RyggTard

The idea that a single, arbitrary test given on a single day will determine to a great extent the path of the rest of your life is pretty stupid.

Republicans love standardized tests though, the absolute nature of the result appeals to their neanderthal reasoning abilities that allow them to think only in black and white.

VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (6) Oct 18, 2013
Polling reveals that Republicans 'biggest losers' in shutdown aftermath

Thanx Tea-Tards You must be so proud of yourselves.

http://www.france...e-senate

Tea-Tarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrds

I would like to thank the Koch brothers for creating the Tea-Party and helping destroy the Republicans and the American state.
ryggesogn2
1.8 / 5 (15) Oct 18, 2013
What parent wouldn't want their kid in advanced placement.

If they qualify.
How many university educated who post here would agree to granting BS, MS, Phd degrees for just showing up to class? After all it's not fair some can pass advanced degrees and others can't.
ryggesogn2
1.6 / 5 (14) Oct 18, 2013
"Kathi Moreau, a Michigan school counselor who decided to leave her union, was surprised to see her name published in her former union's newsletter — along with 15 other deserters.

"The fact that names were published in the newsletter confirmed the thought that some unions would throw their members under a bus at the blink of an eye," said Moreau in a statement to Michigan Capitol Confidential. "Additionally, there was no reason for publishing our names and it is nothing less than a cheap shot for opting out."

Read more: http://dailycalle...i7NkpChq
VendicarE
3.3 / 5 (6) Oct 18, 2013
"How many university educated who post here would agree to granting BS, MS, Phd degrees for just showing up to class?" - RyggTard

Can you tell us who is offering PHD's for just showing up in lass?

No? Thought you couldn't.

So you are whining about something you have imagined!

Do you intend to live on planet fantasy for the rest of your life, TardieBoy?
VendicarE
3.5 / 5 (6) Oct 18, 2013
"The fact that names were published in the newsletter confirmed the thought that some unions would throw their members under a bus"

Isn't her number in the telephone book?

Is the telephone company also throwing her under a bus then for publishing her name in the telephone book?

RyggTard just whines and whines, and whined. about nothing.

Dumer than rocks.

ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (11) Oct 20, 2013
blaming poor American education stats on "the left",


The US education system is based upon socialist Germany's education system.

" the dominant model of public education is still fundamentally rooted in the industrial revolution that spawned it, when workplaces valued punctuality, regularity, attention, and silence above all else."
"Legions of managers supervise everything that happens in the classroom; in 2010 only 50 percent of public school staff members in the US were teachers."
"The results speak for themselves: Hundreds of thousands of kids drop out of public high school every year."
""If you put a computer in front of children and remove all other adult restrictions, they will self-organize around it," Mitra says, "like bees around a flower.""
{Emergent education, no central planning, no indoctrination, too radical for satists}
http://www.wired....hinkers/
ThomasQuinn
2.3 / 5 (6) Oct 20, 2013
"Socialist Germany"? Are you high on something? Or just living in a fantasy world of Reagan-era lies?

What is so bloody annoying is that 'the right' keeps complaining about schools where teachers don't teach and students don't learn, but when we look at the individual measures that, put together, created that situation, it quickly becomes apparent that they are initiated by...the right.
ryggesogn2
1.5 / 5 (11) Oct 20, 2013
The Prussian education system adopted by the USA is a statist/socialist system promoted by Horace Mann.
" the Prussian system designed by Fredrick the Great. King Frederick created a system that was engineered to teach obedience and solidify his control. Focusing on following directions, basic skills, and conformity, he sought to indoctrinate the nation from an early age."
http://thenewamer...al-model
'The right' promotes teacher unions and opposes innovation in the govt school system? BHO opposed vouchers and school choice in DC as do other 'liberals'.
ThomasQuinn
2.7 / 5 (7) Oct 21, 2013
Not that I expect you to understand any of the below, but here goes for people who *do* actually have mental faculties of some kind:

- Frederick the Great lived in the 18th century. The concept "socialism", in its earliest recognizable form, did not originate until 1823. It's a matter of simple arithmetic from there.
- Frederick the Great was one of the most conservative, right-wing rulers of his day. Equating strong-state ideology with socialist ideology is ignorant beyond belief.
- The Prussian education system was dedicated almost entirely to breeding military officers, something you can hardly accuse the US of doing, and certainly not something American liberals would do, as even you would have to admit.
- Your link refers to a bit of text in which a new school-type seeks to differentiate itself from 'traditional' schools. It is full of hyperbole and hardly a scholarly source.

In short: you don't need me to discredit your point, you do that perfectly on your own.
Neinsense99
1.6 / 5 (7) Oct 21, 2013
...
In short: you don't need me to discredit your point, you do that perfectly on your own.

It had better be perfect, as @Ryggy has had much practice in discrediting himself.
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (8) Oct 21, 2013
The concept "socialism", in its earliest recognizable form, did not originate until 1823.

Socialism is state control of private property. Mises lays this out very well in his book "Socialism".
State control of property has been around for centuries.
strong-state ideology with socialist ideology is ignorant beyond belief

It was called Fascism by Mussolini.
Neinsense99
2 / 5 (8) Oct 21, 2013
The concept "socialism", in its earliest recognizable form, did not originate until 1823.

Socialism is state control of private property. Mises lays this out very well in his book "Socialism".
State control of property has been around for centuries.
strong-state ideology with socialist ideology is ignorant beyond belief

It was called Fascism by Mussolini.

Oh my, what a conveniently flexible definition you have! All the better to post in forums with?
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (9) Oct 21, 2013
State control of private property is the essence of Mises' definition in Socialism.
Read it. It's free on line.
Basitat's definition in The Law is essentially the same.
""Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all....."
The Law
Note also Bastiat states that socialism springs from ancient ideas.
" He (Plato) was the first of the "planners" and the true founder of the communist economy which deifies the state. "
"the democratic system makes the state the servant of man; the socialist system makes man the servant of the State. One preserves the liberty and independent action of the individual; the other annihilates it."
http://mises.org/daily/3620
ryggesogn2
1 / 5 (10) Oct 21, 2013
" A prisoner has no real freedom. An animal in a zoo is a captive. His compound may be large and his surroundings may simulate his natural conditions. But for all that he is a prisoner. He cannot seek his own destiny. He is not free to lead the life for which he was created.

Now, in these days nearly all peoples, even in the so-called democracies, live in a sort of national zoo. They are captives of a state planned economy. Their "compound" is their country. They cannot leave it except under financial conditions which compel their speedy return. They are rationed and regulated and have to endure the restrictions which the authorities impose, since the alternative is to starve."
"This article was originally published as "It Started with Plato" in The Freeman, August 13, 1951."
http://mises.org/daily/3620
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.4 / 5 (5) Oct 21, 2013
Frederick the Great lived in the 18th century. The concept "socialism", in its earliest recognizable form, did not originate until 1823
Well the word was coined then but the concept had been around much longer.

"Some of the verses of the Bible which inspired the communal arrangements of the Anabaptist Hutterites are Acts 2, verses 44 and 45:
"All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need."

Acts 4, verse 32:
"All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions were his own, but they shared everything they had."

-and Acts 4, verses 34 and 35:
"There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from their sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need."

-Jesus taught socialism. Nothing new under the sun eh ryggy?
VendicarE
5 / 5 (3) Oct 21, 2013
"The US education system is based upon socialist Germany's education system." - RyggTard

They why is the Socialist German system producing such superior results compared to the American System?

Is it because Germany is a more socialist nation?

VendicarE
5 / 5 (3) Oct 21, 2013
"State control of private property is the essence of Mises' definition in Socialism." - RyggTard

No one cares. Mises - your hero - is a nobody. just as your hero Ayn Rand was a welfare queen.

Howhot
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 21, 2013
"State control of private property is the essence of Mises' definition in Socialism." - RyggTard

No one cares. Mises - your hero - is a nobody. just as your hero Ayn Rand was a welfare queen.

Also, not to mention that State Controlled - Private Property sounds like a definition of a country. The way @R2 says this, it sounds like he favors Anarchy over social structures.


Howhot
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 22, 2013
@R2 says, and this is kind of deep; "Basitat's definition in The Law is essentially the same." and implies, State control of private property *is* Socialism. My question back, is that necessarily a bad thing?

Suppose, "We are not proposing a minimum income — we are proposing an unconditional income. A minimum wage reduces freedom — because it is an additional rule. It tries to fix a system that has been outdated for a while. It is time to partly disconnect human labor and income. We are living in a time where machines do a lot of the manual labor — that is great — we should be celebrating."

To me this makes sense, It would focus on the problem of poverty, very quickly.

VendicarE
5 / 5 (1) Oct 22, 2013
"An animal in a zoo is a captive. His compound may be large and his surroundings may simulate his natural conditions. But for all that he is a prisoner." - RyggTard

Just as you are a prisoner of gravity.

Your compound is larger, and your options somewhat larger, but for all that you are also a prisoner.

You can't escape reality Tardieboy, no matter how far you try and wedge your head up your Randite backside.

VendicarE
5 / 5 (1) Oct 22, 2013
"They are captives of a state planned economy. " - RyggTard

As opposed to a Corporate Planned Economy or anarchy?

The reality of course is that no where in the world is there a "state planned economy".

Neither has there ever been one.

You are living in a fools paranoia, TardieBoy.