Fusion, anyone? Not quite yet, but researchers show just how close we've come

Sep 24, 2013
This image shows the preamplifiers of the National Ignition Facility. The unified lasers deliver 1.8 megajoules of energy and 500 terawatts of power -- 1,000 times more than the United States uses at any one moment. Credit: Damien Jemison/LLNL

The dream of igniting a self-sustained fusion reaction with high yields of energy, a feat likened to creating a miniature star on Earth, is getting closer to becoming reality, according the authors of a new review article in the journal Physics of Plasmas.

Researchers at the National Ignition Facility (NIF) engaged in a collaborative project led by the Department of Energy's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, report that while there is at least one significant obstacle to overcome before achieving the highly stable, precisely directed implosion required for ignition, they have met many of the demanding challenges leading up to that goal since experiments began in 2010.

The project is a multi-institutional effort including partners from the University of Rochester's Laboratory for Laser Energetics, General Atomics, Los Alamos National Laboratory, Sandia National Laboratory, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

To reach ignition (defined as the point at which the produces more energy than is needed to initiate it), the NIF focuses 192 simultaneously in billionth-of-a-second pulses inside a cryogenically cooled hohlraum (from the German word for "hollow room"), a hollow cylinder the size of a pencil eraser. Within the hohlraum is a ball-bearing-size capsule containing two , deuterium and tritium (D-T). The unified lasers deliver 1.8 megajoules of energy and 500 terawatts of power—1,000 times more than the United States uses at any one moment—to the hohlraum creating an "X-ray oven" which implodes the D-T capsule to temperatures and pressures similar to those found at the center of the sun.

"What we want to do is use the X-rays to blast away the outer layer of the capsule in a very controlled manner, so that the D-T pellet is compressed to just the right conditions to initiate the fusion reaction," explained John Edwards, NIF associate director for and high-energy-density science. "In our new review article, we report that the NIF has met many of the requirements believed necessary to achieve ignition—sufficient X-ray intensity in the hohlraum, accurate energy delivery to the target and desired levels of compression—but that at least one major hurdle remains to be overcome, the premature breaking apart of the capsule."

In the article, Edwards and his colleagues discuss how they are using diagnostic tools developed at NIF to determine likely causes for the problem. "In some ignition tests, we measured the scattering of neutrons released and found different strength signals at different spots around the D-T capsule," Edwards said. "This indicates that the shell's surface is not uniformly smooth and that in some places, it's thinner and weaker than in others. In other tests, the spectrum of X-rays emitted indicated that the D-T fuel and capsule were mixing too much—the results of hydrodynamic instability—and that can quench the ignition process."

Edwards said that the team is concentrating its efforts on NIF to define the exact nature of the instability and use the knowledge gained to design an improved, sturdier capsule. Achieving that milestone, he said, should clear the path for further advances toward laboratory ignition.

Explore further: UCI team is first to capture motion of single molecule in real time

More information: The article, "Progress toward ignition on the National Ignition Facility" by M.J. Edwards et al. appears in the journal Physics of Plasmas: dx.doi.org/10.1063/1.4816115

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antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (14) Sep 24, 2013
hohlraum (from the German word for "hollow room")

In this case "Raum" is better translated as "space" (Hohlraum - hollow space).
A Hohlraum in german is any completely enclosed, hollow space (something as tiny as the inside of a buckyball is just as much a Hohlraum as the inside of a gigantic, sealed cavern)
Aaron1980
1 / 5 (18) Sep 24, 2013
get rid of the capsule and hold the drop of D-T in place with sound waves
Szkeptik
4.5 / 5 (8) Sep 24, 2013
"get rid of the capsule and hold the drop of D-T in place with sound waves"

I don't think there is air in the room when they engage the reaction.
shavera
4.6 / 5 (9) Sep 24, 2013
The capsule is essential. You need the heating of the capsule to generate the x-rays that provide the pressure on the D-T fuel. Without the capsule you just blast away at hydrogen.
Kron
1.8 / 5 (19) Sep 24, 2013
Without gravitational confinement an inverse method must be in use to supply adequate pressure for continual fusion. Therefore the ignition procedure must precede each fusing. You cannot expect to harvest energy from a 'miniature star' because gravitational force supplementation is required. Stars generate energy through their mass. A 'mini star' generates energy through use of energy.
Mike_Massen
2 / 5 (10) Sep 24, 2013
If they do achieve consistent shell thickness and still have issues, would be interesting to ponder how they might spin the fuel in all 3 dimensions and at what rpms, yet another complexity but, with modern methods and diagnostics might well offer further clues worthy of consideration...
obama_socks
1.2 / 5 (23) Sep 24, 2013
I thought "zimmer" meant room in German...example: classenzimmer = classroom.

"get rid of the capsule and hold the drop of D-T in place with sound waves"

I don't think there is air in the room when they engage the reaction.


A vacuum in the enclosed space of a thicker, uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity might prevent the shell from breaking prematurely. This is only a guess.

Personally, I don't like having such star-like fusion temperatures existing in a lab on Earth. I think it's too dangerous and there could be far-reaching problems later when their goal is achieved. Even the Earth's core doesn't reach such temps...in spite of AlGore's claim that the core is millions of degrees hot. :)
Mike_Massen
1.9 / 5 (13) Sep 24, 2013
Franklins mumbled betraying static approach to the complexities of high end Science rather than the more appropriate dynamic with this betrayal of prejudice
http://www.photon...ID=53781 that the NIF cannot ignite the fusion?
The far more useful interpretation is "Didnt achieve fusion according to an arbitrary deadline not related directly to substantive experimental evidence" or words to that effect.

Note:
Science = "The disciplined acquisition of knowledge" a& shouldn'tt be subject to arbitrary guesses, goal is sound & of noble intent, keep it going, details are being discovered so much so it becomes an engineering issue not abstract research - the payoff is not congruent with setting a political like guess at a timeline doubtless under pressure from bureaucrats or politicians predisposed to short timelines which have given us a broken democratic system in many places around the world...!

@o_s
Check physics, fusion is not a runaway process by any mean !
antialias_physorg
3 / 5 (4) Sep 24, 2013
I thought "zimmer" meant room in German...example: classenzimmer = classroom.

'Zimmer' is a room within a house, only. Raum is more general and has several translations (e.g. 'space', but it can also be used for spaces that would classify as a 'Zimmer'). However, the translation is dependent on context. No one would translate Hohlraum as "hollow room" (because the term 'Hohlzimmer' makes no sense in german)

I have a car navigation system that reads out the letters as you type your destination. When you enter a space it says 'raum' which is completely wrong (a bizarre, and somewheat funny translation error)
Mike_Massen
1.4 / 5 (10) Sep 24, 2013
oops
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (13) Sep 24, 2013
A vacuum in the enclosed space of a thicker, uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity might prevent the shell from breaking prematurely. This is only a guess
-Like guessing that the moon is made of green cheese I suppose.

"Cryogenic targets filled with a deuterium tritium (D-T) mixture are "self-smoothing" due to the small amount of heat created by the decay of the radioactive tritium isotope"

-Which means they are 'frozen', pussytard.

'Spinning around at a high velocity' - perhaps you are thinking about your washing machine? Or your daiquiri blender? Because how would you get a gas inside a pellet inside a hohlraum to spin? Even if it werent frozen?
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (23) Sep 24, 2013
To all who may have forgotten, or who may never have heard AlGore's famous remark -

http://newsbuster...-degrees

Yes...AlGore is still "the thinking man's thinking man".
LOL
obama_socks
1.6 / 5 (19) Sep 24, 2013
I thought "zimmer" meant room in German...example: classenzimmer = classroom.

'Zimmer' is a room within a house, only. Raum is more general and has several translations (e.g. 'space', but it can also be used for spaces that would classify as a 'Zimmer'). However, the translation is dependent on context. No one would translate Hohlraum as "hollow room" (because the term 'Hohlzimmer' makes no sense in german)

I have a car navigation system that reads out the letters as you type your destination. When you enter a space it says 'raum' which is completely wrong (a bizarre, and somewheat funny translation error)
-Antialias Physorg

Thank you for clarifying that for me, AntiAP. I had one semester of German as an elective and lost interest in it early...bigger goals...and now I wish I had continued studying German.
My kids have learned German and speak to each other, and I am at a loss as to what they're saying. LOL
obama_socks
1.6 / 5 (21) Sep 24, 2013
'Spinning around at a high velocity' - perhaps you are thinking about your washing machine? Or your daiquiri blender? Because how would you get a gas inside a pellet inside a hohlraum to spin? Even if it werent frozen?
-Theghostofottopussymama1923

I have figured it out already, which is why I said it. Why don't YOU figure it out for yourself? Or do you expect me to teach you everything, eh Blotto?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (11) Sep 24, 2013
'Spinning around at a high velocity' - perhaps you are thinking about your washing machine? Or your daiquiri blender? Because how would you get a gas inside a pellet inside a hohlraum to spin? Even if it werent frozen?
-Theghostofottopussymama1923

I have figured it out already, which is why I said it. Why don't YOU figure it out for yourself? Or do you expect me to teach you everything, eh Blotto?
Let me see if I get what youre saying. Youre saying that you understand that the D-T is frozen and cant spin by itself, which is why you suggested that "uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity" makes any sense at all? Im sorry but that makes no sense at all. Dont you agree?
I had one semester of German as an elective and lost interest in it early
... so why would your aeroSPACE company which pays you $250k/yr send you to berlin to represent them if you dont know the difference between 'zimmer' and 'raum' (which DOES mean SPACE after all?)
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (24) Sep 24, 2013
ROFLOL...here is Blotto's source of all knowledge...Wikipedia, without which Blotto would not be able to copy and paste.

http://en.wikiped...t_fusion

What a jerk. Thinks I went to Berlin and keeps repeating its error over and over. LOL...if anyone was required to know German before traveling to Germany, very few people would go.
Blotto - the stupid monkey turd eater.
obama_socks
1.6 / 5 (21) Sep 24, 2013
BlottoPussytard's pretense of having knowledge (copy and pasted from Wiki, of course.)

"Cryogenic targets filled with a deuterium tritium (D-T) mixture are "self-smoothing" due to the small amount of heat created by the decay of the radioactive tritium isotope"

BAKOON
2.1 / 5 (19) Sep 24, 2013
For many years, Obama_socks and his legion of sockpuppets have been downrating everyone in Physorg and uprating himself and his sockpuppets, particularly Pirouette and now his new replacement for Pirouette, Kiwini.

I have exposed Pussytard's mischief and he doesn't like it one bit, thus he is constantly warring with every comment I make and making up all kinds of shit about me. He has done the same to others with whom he disagreed, or those he believes to be me (but who are not).

As for the rest of you, Obama_socks prefers to set each one of you against each other by using his sockpuppets to downvote you and get everyone thinking that someone they disagreed with on a topic are doing the downvoting.

You should all be aware by now of Pussytard's mental illnesses & sockpuppets and take that into consideration before accusing each other.
beleg
4 / 5 (4) Sep 24, 2013
Der Hohlraumresonator...Helmholtz resonators.
"Cavity" instead of "space".
An alternative to AP's commendable, through and thoughtful reasoning towards any misleading equivalency of meaning between technical terms stemming from more than one language.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (11) Sep 24, 2013
ROFLOL...here is Blotto's source of all knowledge...Wikipedia, without which Blotto would not be able to copy and paste.
No actually its from here
http://www.scribd...-Physics

-Somebody copy/pasted it into wiki.
Thinks I went to Berlin
So you were lying about that too?

You havent yet explained this statement:
A vacuum in the enclosed space of a thicker, uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity might prevent the shell from breaking prematurely.
WHY do you think that frozen D-T could spin around inside some sort of shell, and what this has to do with the hohlraum they were discussing above?

Let me offer an explanation. You took the words 'sound' and 'vacuum' and 'shell' and 'spin' and put them together into what you thought could pass for an intelligent comment. If this is true you were obviously very wrong.

Do you have a better explanation?
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (22) Sep 24, 2013
ROFLOL…I see that Theghostofotto1923's boyfriend, BAKOON has copied my post from http://phys.org/n...iers.htm

Below is my original post from that thread which the very childish BAKOON, Blotto's sucksuck boyfriend has decided to imitate to post in this thread.
BAKOON's behavior indicates mental illness. I am certain that BAKOON copies almost everything I say.
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (22) Sep 24, 2013
obama_socks

3 / 5 (2)
1 hour ago
@Sinister1811
@runrig
@ubavontuba

You guys are obviously missing the whole point of who the actual sockpuppets are and who is using them...

For many years, Theghostofotto1923 and his legion of sockpuppets have been downrating everyone in Physorg and uprating himself and his sockpuppets, particularly FrankHerbert and now his new replacement for FrankH, BAKOON.

I have exposed Blotto's mischief and he doesn't like it one bit, thus he is constantly warring with every comment I make and making up all kinds of shit about me. He has done the same to others with whom he disagreed, or those he believes to be me (but who are not).

As for the rest of you, Theghostofotto1923 prefers to set each one of you against each other by using his sockpuppets to downvote you and get everyone thinking that someone they disagreed with on a topic are doing the downvoting.

You should all be aware by now of Blotto's mental illnesses & sockpuppets and take that into consideration before accusing each other.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (11) Sep 24, 2013
Just explain your statement moron:
A vacuum in the enclosed space of a thicker, uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity might prevent the shell from breaking prematurely.

WHY do you think that frozen D-T could spin around inside some sort of shell, and what this has to do with the hohlraum they were discussing above?

And answer this question: WHY do you think that the people here will let you get away with posting such ignorant bullshit?
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (19) Sep 24, 2013
Explain it yourself, moron. I have it all figured out. Since you believe yourself (or just pretending) to be so intelligent and knowledgeable of all things...FIGURE IT OUT, MORON

LOL...Nobody else but you and your sucksuckpuppets have something stupid to say about my comments...NOBODY. Anyone else is welcome to PM me and vent their frustrations if they disagree with anything I say. And nobody has done so.
This means it is all in your sick mind, Blotto...and everyone on Physorg is aware of that now.
ROFLOL

TheGhostofOtto1923
1.3 / 5 (13) Sep 24, 2013
Well thats the trouble isnt it? Few people want to call you on your idiot posts about splitting electrons or self-aware cells with their own neurons or the sun going supernova or increments not occurring in nature or no-baby zero growth or geysers that can defrost antarctica etcetcetc.

You embarrass them. You make them feel uncomfortable. And they dont want to be the recipients of your foul, lying vitriol for objecting to your bullshit

But like the family in the movie 'the miracle worker', theyve learned to ignore you as you scurry about grabbing food off their plates and smearing it all over your greasy face.
http://www.youtub...NRq6DekY

-Thats you pussytard. A slob. A glutton. Can you identify? Are you going to throw another tantrum?
obama_socks
1.2 / 5 (18) Sep 24, 2013
LOL...I like to mess around a bit in this website and most of them know it. I'm not here to kiss anyone's ass or be popular.
The supernova remark was just joking around. But all the rest of my comment was all true. You still don't get it. God created the first one-celled animal whole...with everything. So how do YOU know that it wasn't self aware? Because you say so?

Hell, I'm not even permitted to explain to you the information you wanted.

Trade secrets of which my company has over 2,000. And for all I know, YOU might be a paid spy for Iran or China. Maybe even for the Russians or the Ayotolah Khameini...which is why you are always on Physorg and seem to be unemployed,,,and why you seem desperate for me to reveal a secret process.

The process isn't that hard...but it will become public once someone in my organization writes a paper on it and has it published in Science. Otherwise, YOU figure it out. LOL

I will now begin posting on my other 2 names.

Now go take your meds, Blotto

obama_socks
1.2 / 5 (20) Sep 24, 2013
Oh, and...you seemed perturbed by the fact that when you die, your Soul will remain inside your body and you will FEEL all the agonizing pains as every cell, every bone and piece of flesh rots away and breaks when the dirt above your coffin crushes down on you. You will FEEL everything and KNOW what is happening to you. That will be good for you, Blotto. You need it. So enjoy it when it happens as you close your eyes for the last time. Justice will be served.

Bwahahaahahahah
snort

BAKOON
1.9 / 5 (18) Sep 24, 2013
Oh I get it now. I'll be able to feel it because of all those neurons in my cells. ROFL

You are too stupid to ever know how dumb you are.

So just how many times are you going to announce you are done posting on Obama_socks?

@everyone, if you feel Obama_socks should stop posting, 5 this post.
DonGateley
2.8 / 5 (16) Sep 24, 2013
God you assholes are tiresome. Everyone hereabouts would sigh with relief if you just turned over and died.
WillieWard
3.2 / 5 (9) Sep 24, 2013
A better bet is on phased waves to achieve fusion energy ignition of a hydrogen-boron pellet fuel. http://www.youtub...t186pWoA
Lorentz Descartes
1.4 / 5 (11) Sep 24, 2013
somehow, imploding a pellet seems an inelegant way to do fusion. anyone who has ever tried to squish a water-balloon can instinctively understand their fancy 'fluid dynamic problems'.

the technology they develop (lasers, coherence devices etc) however might very well become useful for true fusion in a few years, when a better way has been invented.
sjm
5 / 5 (2) Sep 25, 2013
It seems to me that the whole system is very fragile. If we expect to use fusion as an energy source for the world, then we need a system that is tolerant to small defects. I must admit that it is gratifying that it takes high precision to make this work (else it would become a weapon of choice), but the careful nature of these investigations imply that significant technology advances will be required to construct the hohlraum "fuel" targets. Hopefully, this technology will not be long in coming.
Humpty
1 / 5 (10) Sep 25, 2013
I am just curious - as I think that some kind of "fuel injection" (rapid shooting) or "continuous fusion" (sort of scram jet with a fusion zone) is more feasable.

The idea of a "pill popping" laser range, shooting gallery - kind of just does not cut it.

They are going about it all wrong.

They need to move to implementing a running process (fusion jet engine) instead of trying to pop off bottles of chlorine and brake fluid. (fractional fusion)

Noumenon
2.7 / 5 (23) Sep 25, 2013
Few people want to call you on your idiot posts .... - GhostOfOtto1923


everyone, if you feel Obama_socks should stop posting, 5 this post.- BAKOON/FrankHerbert


Actually, it is YOU two imbeciles who are trashing Phys.Org with troll ratings and turning every other thread into a Jerry-Springer episode.

No one here needs you two dingbats to tell us when someone posted something factually wrong, either by troll rating or bitching like a women.

Where was GhostofOtto1923 when FrankHerbert (BAKOON) actually stated the following jem,?...

Iran developing a nuclear weapon would actually be a good thing for the US and probably even Israel. - FrankHerbert


And where was BAKOON/FrankHerbert when GhostOfOtto1923 maintained that the USA entered WWII not to defeat Germany, but to defeat Russia, and even maintained that absurdity after it was countered and proven that the USA supplied Russia with a massive amount of armaments in WWII, and Let Russia enter Berlin?
Noumenon
2.5 / 5 (23) Sep 25, 2013
If Phys.Org wanted to "weed the garden" of unprofessional posters here they would employ a competent moderator with knowledge of physics or not allow unverified yahoo email accounts.

Christ, GhostOfOtto1923 wrote a fricken book about obama_socks on his profile page, and FrankHerbert spends enormous time troll rating like crazy,... all that effort for what exactly? In the end you have disrupted the site far more than factually wrong posts ever could,... and you have failed miserably in weeding this garden in any case.

Investing endless time "proving" some anonymous person on the internet is an idiot and troll rating to "imply" the same for others benefit,.. is itself idiotic. Knock it off.

@Obama_socks, just ignore them or if they merely post a counter reply, don't start with the Jerry-Spinger BS, instead counter again or accept being corrected.
Noumenon
2.6 / 5 (22) Sep 25, 2013
Who ever agrees with ME ....

... send a request to Phys.Org to disable comment ratings, through their contact page.

This will render sock puppets redundant, and give BAKOON/Open//toot/etc nothing to do but find a date.
Moebius
1.2 / 5 (13) Sep 25, 2013
My bet is that after we have fusion we will find a better way to do it and it will be something that is begging for research now but isn't getting any money or attention yet.
Moebius
1.9 / 5 (16) Sep 25, 2013
Who ever agrees with ME ....

... send a request to Phys.Org to disable comment ratings, through their contact page.

This will render sock puppets redundant, and give BAKOON/Open//toot/etc nothing to do but find a date.


So you noticed that some scum bags have other accounts used just to rate comments a 1? open and toot evidently don't like some of the things I've said to them either, like geokstr who I'm sure owns at least one of those names.

I'm wondering if those morons use the filter that their alter egos render basically useless? And don't waste your breath ranting at physorg, they don't care. If open or toot could find a woman do you think they would be wasting their time creating fake alter-egos?
antialias_physorg
3.5 / 5 (13) Sep 25, 2013
In the end: who cares about the ratings?

On the up side: As long as these sockpuppet-buffoons are rating they're not posting
It's pretty much a given that anyone who stoops to sockpuppetry and ballot stuffing certainly has nothing to say of any qulity whatsoever. If they did they'd not need to act that way.

So to anyone out there enagingin this practice: Congratulations. You've proven to yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt that your opinions don't matter.
brt
1.9 / 5 (15) Sep 25, 2013
Fuck you Cheesecake Factory
brt
1.6 / 5 (13) Sep 25, 2013
makes about as much sense as the rest of these comments.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.6 / 5 (11) Sep 25, 2013
actually it is you 2 imbeciles
Oh come on. The helen Keller reference was genius admit it.

Noumenon - champion of all dimwits and imbeciles who happen to agree with him. Sage who declares that no info can ever come from neverneverland. Brilliant.

Nobody gets to post crap unchallenged. Not even mr 4.1 AA. What's worse - a pretend engr who posts crap or a real one who posts crap? Pros have the responsibility of getting things right.
exploding a pellet seems an inelegant way
Actually I think it is the least inelegant. It creates a point source of fusion products which can be recovered symmetrically. It gets all the magnets, armatures, cryo systems, structure etc away from the reaction itself. And it is the least complex.

Perhaps ultimately the hohlraum can be done away with and a frozen pellet of material can be imploded directly.
Pressure2
1.8 / 5 (15) Sep 25, 2013
Who ever agrees with ME ....

... send a request to Phys.Org to disable comment ratings, through their contact page.

This will render sock puppets redundant, and give BAKOON/Open//toot/etc nothing to do but find a date.

I agree with you totally! What physorg should do is LIMIT ratings only to user names that also post comments. You would have to earn your ability to rate comments by posting comments, say two ratings per posting.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (10) Sep 25, 2013
There is no way to prevent people from creating multiple user accounts. This is even possible on facebook. Besides I would guess that sickpuppet wars generate more site traffic than anything else which is why physorg seems to promote it. And sponsors appreciate high user acct numbers.

Hey aa - I have not used my legions in months. I only generated them when I myself was bombed, just like noumenon, who has spent an inordinate amount of time restoring his (unwarranted?) stature. I only used them offensively in retaliation for chronic downrating and effeminate stalker types, and then again for getting bombed.

Unlike standing armies, sockpuppet legions eat little and don't tend to meddle in politics if they are not expended in battle. When asked why he invaded Kuwait, saddaam hussein replied 'Because my army was getting to be a problem.' The dangers inherent with standing armies are the main reason many wars are fought.

This has been your lesson in the nature of war for today.
Shabs42
3 / 5 (3) Sep 25, 2013
In the end: who cares about the ratings?


Well I care because I turned on the filter to automatically hide all comments that have a rating below 2. That way when I catch up on these articles at the end of the day all the quackery is hidden from me and I'm not even tempted to respond to it.

Only danger is if a good commenter like you angers a couple sockpuppets and has a 1/5 off of one or two votes. Worth the trade off to me though.
PPihkala
3 / 5 (2) Sep 25, 2013
I think that spinning a ball shaped target would be not good. Just compare it to earth. It bulges from that spinning, making it less symmetrical. To me ignition fusion is to LENR as collecting lightning power is to hydro power. Way too complicated and expensive.
Pressure2
1.6 / 5 (13) Sep 25, 2013
In the end: who cares about the ratings?


Well I care because I turned on the filter to automatically hide all comments that have a rating below 2. That way when I catch up on these articles at the end of the day all the quackery is hidden from me and I'm not even tempted to respond to it.

Only danger is if a good commenter like you angers a couple sockpuppets and has a 1/5 off of one or two votes. Worth the trade off to me though.

Turn off your rating filter, you are playing right into the hands of what these cowards want. They rate 1's on any comment they do not have a good answer for.
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (18) Sep 25, 2013
Noumenon - champion of all dimwits and imbeciles who happen to agree with him.


Agree with Obama_socks/etc about what? I rarely even reply to his posts.

Sage who declares that no info can ever come from neverneverland. Brilliant.


You agree with my statement that "metaphysics can't be a source of knowledge", yet you still want to argue the point with me. "Brilliant".

Fuck you Cheesecake Factory


Did you forget to put on your wig?

just like noumenon, who has spent an inordinate amount of time restoring his (unwarranted?) stature.


I didn't spend a lot of time at all. I now know for a fact that Phys.Org administrators participate in negating and deleting purely factual posts. You're probably right as to the reason they don't disable comment ratings. Dishonest corruption to their advertisers.
Noumenon
2.1 / 5 (19) Sep 25, 2013
Turn off your rating filter, you are playing right into the hands of what these cowards want. They rate 1's on any comment they do not have a good answer for.


Exactly correct. If they were so sure of their own view point , they would not be so desperate to obscure others point of view.

brt
2.1 / 5 (15) Sep 25, 2013
God you assholes are tiresome. Everyone hereabouts would sigh with relief if you just turned over and died.


+1
brt
2.1 / 5 (15) Sep 25, 2013
In the end: who cares about the ratings?

.


I agree. I don't require anonymous validation. I don't need the comment ratings on a website to boost my self esteem. That's pathetic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Sep 25, 2013
agree with pussytard about what?
You share tea party sentiments and you graciously accept all the uprating from all her sockpuppets don't you? I don't think it is acceptable for people to pretend to be doctors and nurses and engineers here and I think you are wrong for encouraging it.
agree that metaphysics is bullshit
Yes I do agree that nothing can come from nothing. Because there IS nothing metaphysical.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (7) Sep 25, 2013
I think that spinning a ball shaped target would be not good. Just compare it to earth. It bulges from that spinning, making it less symmetrical. To me ignition fusion is to LENR as collecting lightning power is to hydro power. Way too complicated and expensive.
What ball-shaped target are you talking about? Hohlraums are metallic and tube-shaped and are spun like bullets for injection. And naked pellet targets, if feasible, would still be frozen.

Even if LENR plays out it cannot generate the COP of fission or fusion. Laser inertial fusion is ideally suited for spacecraft propulsion systems and fusion/fission hybrids.
Andrew Palfreyman
1 / 5 (9) Sep 25, 2013
Even if they achieve ignition, this NIF tech is wholly inappropriate for large scale power generation. It's the capsule feed, and what they cost. Meaning this is academic research. Be clear on that.

My money is on Eric Lerner's Focus Fusion. They have burned through a "whopping" $1.5 million so far, with no significant support whatsoever, and have already got the temperature and the containment time nailed down. They only need the density to improve now.
Shabs42
4 / 5 (4) Sep 25, 2013

Turn off your rating filter, you are playing right into the hands of what these cowards want. They rate 1's on any comment they do not have a good answer for.


I find it generally works itself out. The screwballs are a very vocal minority (other than on the climate change articles, those are their own cesspool.) Look at this very article, practically all of obama_socks' comments are hidden from me, just like I prefer. Meanwhile, AA, your own, and a couple of other worthwhile comments pass right through.

I have my own little list in my head of commenters whose opinions I respect, and I keep an eye out for when their comments are hidden. And honestly, avoiding all of the quackery is worth missing a couple of decent comments to me. Plus I still get to read the really fun ones when other people quote them in their good comments.
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (3) Sep 26, 2013
Even if they achieve ignition, this NIF tech is wholly inappropriate for large scale power generation.

Since the NIF isn't supposed to lead to a method for commercial power generation that's quite all right. The main goal of the NIF research is to improve the destructive capabilities of fusion bombs.
Moebius
1.6 / 5 (13) Sep 26, 2013
Does anyone use the filter? I certainly don't.

toot and open are one person and it must be one dumb phuck to just vote every comment by certain people a 1. He's doing it to me because I sent him a message detailing how stupid he is, he has been proving me right ever since lol.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (15) Sep 26, 2013
Hey popsci is doing away with their comments due to trolls, spambots, religionists, teapartiers, vandals, lying flooding phonies, effemenite stalkers, and similar such biofilm:

"Comments can be bad for science. That's why, here at PopularScience.com, we're shutting them off.

"It wasn't a decision we made lightly. As the news arm of a 141-year-old science and technology magazine, we are as committed to fostering lively, intellectual debate as we are to spreading the word of science far and wide. The problem is when trolls and spambots overwhelm the former, diminishing our ability to do the latter."

-thus confirming that vermin do rule the earth and that rational honest thinkers are indeed rare.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (9) Sep 26, 2013
Ahaahaaahaaa open/lite/toot likes that comment
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (9) Sep 26, 2013
Since the NIF isn't supposed to lead to a method for commercial power generation that's quite all right. The main goal of the NIF research is to improve the destructive capabilities of fusion bombs.
AA are you engaging in conspiracy speculating?

"Theory and experimental evidence suggest that with NIF, conditions are finally right for achieving fusion burn and energy gain, producing more energy than the amount required for ignition (see Inertial Fusion Energy). Concurrent with the construction of NIF, Livermore scientists are also pursuing related approaches to IFE that could lead to commercially viable fusion power plants within the next few decades (see LIFE)."

-I like it.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (16) Sep 26, 2013
Does anyone use the filter? I certainly don't.

toot and open are one person and it must be one dumb phuck to just vote every comment by certain people a 1. He's doing it to me because I sent him a message detailing how stupid he is, he has been proving me right ever since lol.


It obviously does not work as designed. I think open/toot/lite etc, is someone's A.D.D. 13 year half wit son. He certainly does not read the comments.

The solution is not complicated. Disable comment ratings. Allow each member the ability to "ignore" selected posters permanently. Don't allow unverified email accounts as a basis for registration

But, when the Phys.Org administrators themselves participate in troll ratings and deleting posts, there is not much hope for improvement here.

Yes I do agree that nothing can come from nothing. Because there IS nothing metaphysical.


You still don't get it. You can't presuppose the very thing you purport to disprove. That was the point.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (12) Sep 26, 2013
you can't
I'm sorry but 'presuppose' is one of those pretentious philo words which implies legitimacy where there most likely is none. Why don't you try a word like 'assume'? I'm sure even dan dennett would approve of 'assume'.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Sep 26, 2013
AA are you engaging in conspiracy speculating?

Nope. Just looking at their mission goal:
"to support nuclear weapon maintenance"
Which is a standard military euphemism for "make bigger bombs".

(which, BTW, also meshes with the "producing more energy than the amount required for ignition" line. Bombs do that.)

Nowhere in the NIF mission statement is there any talk about powerplant (or civilian) usage. And the Hohlraum concept doesn't really lend itself to continuous power generation in any case.

Hoama
1.5 / 5 (15) Sep 26, 2013
I think IEC fusion of some sort will work out eventually. Like Dr. Bussard said, fusion doesn't take place in a torus in nature, only spheres.

Otto, that's sad news about Popsci. The trolls/bots probably have already migrated here.

you can't
I'm sorry but 'presuppose' is one of those pretentious philo words which implies legitimacy where there most likely is none. Why don't you try a word like 'assume'? I'm sure even dan dennett would approve of 'assume'.

Haha, he sure has a way of posting a lot of words without actually saying anything. I'm pretty sure that's the point though.
EnricM
1.6 / 5 (13) Sep 26, 2013
@ antialias_physorg : Good try mate. We German speakers aren't however this specific, for us "Hohlraum" just means "volume" or "empty space" in general be it enclosed by something or not, your definition sounds quite cool, but recall: Most Germans are just normal persons, not specially übercool or stuff.

But maybe it's just those liberal Language Alarmists, who have been repeatedly debunked and shamed by the E-Mails hacked from the Göthe Institut where it is clearly shown that the Umlaut is just a scam and the Volkswagen Polo just an invention made up by the international conspiracy of the powerful Language Lobby to keep their jobs paid by the American taxpayer.

Na ja, so wie man bei uns sagt: Gegen Dummheit kämpfen selbst die Götter vergebens.
Translated: We love love you.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (16) Sep 26, 2013
you can't
I'm sorry but 'presuppose' is one of those pretentious philo words which implies legitimacy where there most likely is none. Why don't you try a word like 'assume'? I'm sure even dan dennett would approve of 'assume'.


Umm, because "presuppose" has the connotation of a precondition for argument. It's a pretty common word, guy,... and appropriate given the context of the discussion you referred to.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (10) Sep 26, 2013
Nowhere in the NIF mission statement is there any talk about powerplant (or civilian) usage. And the Hohlraum concept doesn't really lend itself to continuous power generation in any case
Oh sorry I did not find a 'mission statement' but on their site I did find this:

"The National Ignition Facility (NIF) and related NIF & Photon Science programs—the National Ignition Campaign, Photon Science & Applications, Inertial Fusion Energy, and Science at the Extremes—are pursuing three complementary missions:"

-and #2 out of 3 happens to be this one:

"By demonstrating the ability to attain fusion ignition in the laboratory, NIF will lay the groundwork for future decisions about fusion's long-term potential as a safe, virtually unlimited energy source...".
https://lasers.ll...issions/

-Seriously, you cant rely on rep and dogma alone. Its very easy to make you look bad when you dont look stuff up first, or at least admit it when you are wrong. Herr Engineer.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (11) Sep 26, 2013
Umm, because "presuppose" has the connotation of a precondition for argument. It's a pretty common word, guy,... and appropriate given the context of the discussion you referred to.
presuppose [ˌpriːsəˈpəʊz]
vb (tr)
1. to take for granted; assume

2. to require or imply as a necessary prior condition

3. (Philosophy) Philosophy logic linguistics to require (a condition) to be satisfied as a precondition for a statement to be either true or false or for a speech act to be felicitous. Have you stopped beating your wife? presupposes that the person addressed has a wife and has beaten her
presupposition [ˌpriːsʌpəˈzɪʃən] n

-No, a pretty common word is 'assume'. It has fewer letters and one less syllable You were using your word in the context of philospeak per def #3 above. And so it ends up on the pile along with a priori and epistemology and dasein and felicitous.

'When I hear the word 'culture' I reach for my Schmeisser.' -josef Goebbels
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (10) Sep 26, 2013
@ antialias_physorg : Good try mate. We German speakers aren't however this specific...

But maybe it's just those liberal Language Alarmists, who have been repeatedly debunked and shamed by the E-Mails hacked from the Göthe Institut where it is clearly shown that the Umlaut is just a scam and the Volkswagen Polo just an invention made up by the international conspiracy of the powerful Language Lobby to keep their jobs paid by the American taxpayer.

Na ja, so wie man bei uns sagt: Gegen Dummheit kämpfen selbst die Götter vergebens.
Translated: We love love you.
Uh haha antialias is a german national you tard.
a way of posting a lot of words without actually saying anything. I'm pretty sure that's the point though
-A succinct definition of the whole of the discipline of philosophy. Thanks for that.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (10) Sep 26, 2013
And AA just to rub it in,

"The goal of the National Ignition Facility is to achieve fusion by compressing and heating a pea-sized capsule containing a mixture of deuterium and tritium with the energy of 192 powerful laser beams... With NIF, conditions are ideal for achieving fusion ignition, fusion burn and energy gain.

"Ignition experiments at NIF will set the stage for one of the most exciting applications of inertial confinement fusion one could imagine—production of electricity in a fusion power plant."
https://lasers.ll...ndex.php

-Pulsed fusion is endemic with a number of designs including the z pinch, focus fusion, and the behemoth that General Fusion is working on. The NIF configuration is ideal in that there is nothing in between or even near the reaction and the medium which converts the fusion products into useful energy, thereby minimizing material degradation and irradiation.
Noumenon
2.1 / 5 (18) Sep 26, 2013
Umm, because "presuppose" has the connotation of a precondition for argument. It's a pretty common word, guy,... and appropriate given the context of the discussion you referred to.


3. (Philosophy) Philosophy logic linguistics to require (a condition) to be satisfied as a precondition for a statement to be either true or false or for a speech act to be felicitous.

-No, a pretty common word is 'assume'. It has fewer letters and one less syllable You were using your word in the context of philospeak per def #3 above.


You're right, Otto, .... I should not have used logic while speaking to you. Go ahead then and "assume" a-priori as true the very thing you purport to prove.
Estevan57
2.5 / 5 (22) Sep 27, 2013
The Mission statement of the NIF ignores the military aspect and usefulness of the research, just as the mission statement of NASA does.

Considering the history of both, it is obvious that their "missions" serve the military as well as civilian science.

"NIF's mission is to achieve fusion ignition with high energy gain, and to support nuclear weapon maintenance and design by studying the behavior of matter under the conditions found within nuclear weapons."
http://en.wikiped...Facility

"Ensuring the safety, reliability, and security of the U.S. nuclear stockpile and applying science and technology to anticipate, innovate and deliver solutions to global security needs."

https://www.llnl.gov/
dizzymonkey
3.2 / 5 (18) Sep 27, 2013
Wow.

I am neither a professional researcher or physicist but I find this absolutely shocking and I don't mean the article.

I am referring instead to the comments from a community with people who are supposedly interested and active enough to be known "personalities" and yet manage to produce the same quality of dialog that I see from teenage girls bickering on Facebook.

It is interesting that people outside a community like this have a general perception that within there is a lot of thoughtful, polite and useful conversation. Apparently this is non sense.

I understand disagreements. I am an engineer and there are plenty of strong opinions and arguments when it comes to solving problems within my professional environment. However, I am confused why the most vocal members of this community can't behave like professionals (or adults) - or at least pretend.

Grow up, put aside your differences and focus on the real topics at hand in an adult manner that is useful for the community.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.9 / 5 (13) Sep 27, 2013
@monkeyengineer
Hello noob
If you are a noob
-So your first post at physorg is a sanctimonious bitchslap. Got anything relevant to say about the article? Or have you said WAY too much already?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (11) Sep 28, 2013
I should not have used logic while speaking to you
What sort of logic are you talking about?

1. (Philosophy / Logic) the branch of philosophy concerned with analysing the patterns of reasoning by which a conclusion is properly drawn from a set of premises, without reference to meaning or context
2. (Philosophy / Logic) any particular formal system in which are defined axioms and rules of inference Compare formal system, formal language
3. the system and principles of reasoning used in a specific field of study
4. a particular method of argument or reasoning
5. force or effectiveness in argument or dispute
6. reasoned thought or argument, as distinguished from irrationality

-If you are talking about specious philo word calculationisms per 1 or 2, then you are correct. If you meant in the sense of 6, then you are wrong.

Philo logic was another sham attempt at keeping the notion that words can somehow be used to discern reality, alive.
kevin_buckeye_3
1.3 / 5 (13) Sep 28, 2013
I thought "zimmer" meant room in German...example: classenzimmer = classroom.

"get rid of the capsule and hold the drop of D-T in place with sound waves"

I don't think there is air in the room when they engage the reaction.


A vacuum in the enclosed space of a thicker, uniform shell with the D-T spinning around inside at a high velocity might prevent the shell from breaking prematurely. This is only a guess.

Personally, I don't like having such star-like fusion temperatures existing in a lab on Earth. I think it's too dangerous and there could be far-reaching problems later when their goal is achieved. Even the Earth's core doesn't reach such temps...in spite of AlGore's claim that the core is millions of degrees hot. :)


No. You just don't have the IQ. Who cares about Al Gore? You CONservatives need to get a job.
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (16) Sep 28, 2013
I am gainfully employed. Are YOU?
I used AlGore as an example of someone who is hypocritical and stupid. Did you come into this thread just to annoy other commenters? Of course you did.

I was about to explain my statement that you have decided to repeat, but I will, instead, send my explanation along with the .pdf to the people in this thread who wished to seriously discuss the topic.
Thank you for your attention and have a good day.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (10) Sep 29, 2013
Perhaps pussytard you would just choose to retire to your secret club (you know the Other Physorg per your profile, with secret passwords and handshakes and the like?) because you are obviously causing nothing but trouble here. Everybody HERE seems to think you are a lying cheating dimwit with a low IQ.

I am sure all the professional engineers and scientists and therapists and politicians and theologians and pickpockets and safecrackers in the Other Physorg hold you in somewhat higher regard.

Aren't you happier among those people? Pussytard?
jabailo
1 / 5 (6) Sep 29, 2013
This seems unlikely. The Hydrogen Economy is in full swing. Simple chemistry trumps nucleonics.
vlaaing peerd
not rated yet Sep 30, 2013

Na ja, so wie man bei uns sagt: Gegen Dummheit kämpfen selbst die Götter vergebens.
Translated: We love love you.


-O_ hehehe or as my gramps used to say: Der einzige gute Nachbarn sind toter Nachbarn.

It's Dutch for "we love our neighbours". ;)
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (17) Sep 30, 2013
Perhaps pussytard you would just choose to retire to your secret club (you know the Other Physorg per your profile, with secret passwords and handshakes and the like?) because you are obviously causing nothing but trouble here. Everybody HERE seems to think you are a lying cheating dimwit with a low IQ.

I am sure all the professional engineers and scientists and therapists and politicians and theologians and pickpockets and safecrackers in the Other Physorg hold you in somewhat higher regard.

Aren't you happier among those people? Pussytard?
-TheghostofTheNaziOttoSkorzeny1923

LOL...there is no "pussytard" except in Blotto's fertile imagination and delusions.

There is only ONE Phys.org. How many times must I explain that?

Who is Everybody HERE? The ONLY lying cheating dimwit with a low IQ is Theghostofotto1923 and its dozens of sockpuppets

(SEE MY PROFILE PAGE FOR BLOTTO'S SOCKPUPPET NAMES.)

Anyone who has a problem with my comments are free to send me a PM describing it.
BAKOON
1.7 / 5 (17) Sep 30, 2013
There have been many times when I've made an attempt to steer the discussion back to the topic by posting a comment that was relevant to the topic of the article, in spite of a certain individual (Otto/Bakoon) who comes into a thread and posts something that is completely "off-topic", most often for the purpose of firing off some reprehensible character assassination and ad hominems...which is an attention-getter.
Obama_socks, Idiot Hypocrite
Read more at: http://phys.org/n...html#jCp

This is what you call being on topic? Go away if you don't have anything constructive to post.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (14) Sep 30, 2013
only ONE Phys.org
Wow. So secret they wiped your memory eh?

"...IF you have lost or misplaced your The Other Physorg password, I will provide you with the current PW, but ONLY if your User name tallies with the list in my possession of Other Physorg member names. Please keep in mind that I can ONLY help you with the first Community PW. The second and third passwords are YOUR responsibility and you will have to arrange to reset your two passwords with The Other Physorg. Also, please do NOT forget to observe and vet each and any potential member BEFORE you invite them to join our The Other Physorg groups. It is imperative that we KEEP OUT all trolls, cranks, psychos, those aiding and abetting psychos, anti-Capitalists, anti-religionists, sock puppeteers beyond only TWO sock puppets, Socialists, and others whom you believe untrustworthy. Remember!! Our Other Physorg groups are depending on you to preserve our enjoyment of The Other Physorg without hostile individuals. Thank you."
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (12) Sep 30, 2013
Hey bakoon, you think its possible that obamasucks is really one of those dissociative identity disorder peoples then? I took the above quote from her profile page. Perhaps one of her other personalities added it and she genuinely has no knowledge of this.
http://www.youtub...0_pPA0x8

Sad.

-Or maybe she just added it in one of her many blackouts. You know what they say about drunk-texting. No big mystery pussytard - just chemistry.
GermanJoey
2.4 / 5 (17) Sep 30, 2013
I don't know what his deal with lying about that is:
search google for: site:phys.org obama_socks "this physorg"

It's obvious he's made the claim frequently and recently.
BAKOON
1.9 / 5 (17) Sep 30, 2013
Hey bakoon, you think its possible that obamasucks is really one of those dissociative identity disorder peoples then?
I'm convinced this is so. My Kenyan psychologist friend says without a doubt Obama_socks has MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

My friends at this physorg were able to track down his IP and found this video on file at his mental hospital: http://www.youtub...yREVNEGc

As you can see Obama_socks clearly has a DISEASED mind and suffers from extreme LATENT HOMOSEXUALITY.

My friends at this physorg have given him many opportunities to stop. We will turn him into his mental hospital for punishment. If they don't take away his internet privileges, we will file a class action law suit.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (6) Oct 01, 2013
I don't know what his deal with lying about that is:
search google for: site:phys.org obama_socks "this physorg"

It's obvious he's made the claim frequently and recently.
I think it may be somewhat on the order of Münchausen syndrome by proxy. You can catch an offender in the act of injuring their child and they will still claim with all sincerity that they werent doing it.

Or else pussytard is a monumental hoax perpetrated by someone equally as fucked up. If I was a black male psychiatrist perhaps I could give you a diagnosis.