Laser fusion experiment yields record energy

(Phys.org) —In the early morning hours of Aug.13, Lawrence Livermore's National Ignition Facility (NIF) focused all 192 of its ultra-powerful laser beams on a tiny deuterium-tritium filled capsule. In the nanoseconds that followed, the capsule imploded and released a neutron yield of nearly 3x10¹⁵, or approximately 8,000 joules of neutron energy—approximately three times NIF's previous neutron yield record for cryogenic implosions.

The primary mission of NIF is to provide experimental insight and data for the National Nuclear Security Administration's science-based stockpile stewardship program. The experiment attained conditions not observed since the days of underground nuclear weapons testing and represents an important milestone in the continuing demonstration that the stockpile can be kept safe, secure and reliable without a return to testing.

This newest accomplishment provides an important benchmark for the program's computer simulation tools, and represents a step along the "path forward" for ignition delivered by the NNSA to Congress in December 2012.

Early calculations show that fusion reactions in the hot plasma started to self-heat the burning core and enhanced the yield by nearly 50 percent, pushing close to the margins of alpha burn, where the fusion reactions dominate the process.

"The yield was significantly greater than the energy deposited in the hot spot by the implosion," said Ed Moses, principle associate director for NIF and Photon Science. "This represents an important advance in establishing a self-sustaining burning target, the next critical step on the path to fusion ignition on NIF."

The experiment was designed to resist breakup of the high velocity imploding ablator (shell of the target capsule) that has degraded the performance of previous experiments by lowering compression of the target. To create this resistance, the laser power is turned up during the picket that occurs at the beginning of the laser pulse. This raises the radiation temperature in the foot or trough period of the pulse (hence the name "high-foot" pulse), increasing the stability of the ablator but reducing compression later in the implosion.

The high-foot campaign was born after systematically exploring possible causes for the shell breakup observed in a series of lower foot, more compressed experiments, and developing hypotheses for how to address the issue.

"In the spirit of what Livermore is good at, this work was born out of the fierce competition of ideas of how to fix the problem, but then coming together as a team to move the best ideas forward," said Omar Hurricane, lead scientist on the campaign. "In this particular experiment, we intentionally lowered the goal in order to gain control and learn more about what Mother Nature is doing. The results were remarkably close to simulations and have provided an important tool for understanding and improving performance."

These promising returns were the result of a laser experiment that delivered 1.7 megajoules (MJ or million joules) of ultraviolet light at 350 terawatts (TW or trillion watts) of peak power. NIF is the world's largest and most energetic laser system, which has already pushed past its design specifications of 1.8 MJ and 500 TW, leaving headroom for more exploration of this idea. The campaign is the product of a strong collaboration between LLNL's NIF and Photon Science and Weapons and Complex Integration directorates.

Moses expressed his gratitude to the team of designers and experimentalists. "Much thanks to the many who seamlessly integrated their capabilities in order to field this experimental campaign," he said. "It's hard not to feel encouraged by the progress we've made with great new and planned diagnostic capabilities, promising results with high-foot experiments, a team that is working extremely well together and a go forward plan that, by and large, is well supported by the community."

Explore further: World’s largest laser picks up the pace

Aaron1980

2 / 5 (21) Aug 27, 2013

Hey no rush guys ... we still have lots of fossil fuel left to sell.

Doc Brown

Aug 27, 2013

This comment has been removed by a moderator.

antialias_physorg

3.5 / 5 (13) Aug 27, 2013

as these neutrons will make every metal radioactive (including the NIF chamber itself). The cold fusion experiments already

Ah..that explains a number of things. You don't really know what fusion is, do you? And that even cold fusion (if it existed) would have that same 'problem'.

And as a small reminder: Even fission irradiates the chamber. And we're quit prepared to live with that in current nuclear reactors. (It's one of the reasons why old nuclear reactors can't be demolished right away after shutdown, and why all the ruble from the deconstruction of the 'biological shield' must be added to the growing pile of nuclear waste.)

It's not utilizable energy, but rather waste,

You may have read (as it says right there in the article) that the NIF isn't supposed to be an energy generating facility. It's for weapons research.

Matthewwa25

3.1 / 5 (25) Aug 27, 2013

Cold fusion is a unproven fraud. Rossi should be thrown in prison....

This is real ;) I think the ITER is going to work really good.

3.9 / 5 (13) Aug 27, 2013

Ah, I see you're breaking out all your old voting sockpuppets Zeph. You are truly a laugh a minute.

True to the old Calvin and Hobbes comic: "If you can't win by reason - go with volume"

italba

1 / 5 (11) Aug 27, 2013

@Matthewwa25: You are a proven troll, and you should be thrown in garbage. THIS is real.

JIMBO

1.6 / 5 (13) Aug 27, 2013

The Unending stream of Hype about NIF overlooks the fact that it is & has been a cover for H-bomb research (by treaty !). Worse, it is in Deep funding jeopardy & behind schedule, yet like a Golem, stalks on, oblivious to the huge French fusion project ITER. It will never produce an engineering fusion reactor that could feed the grid. It is only a physics project & DOD puppet.

no fate

3 / 5 (2) Aug 27, 2013

Doc Brown - hilarious.

Teech - I thought about taking a trip to view the NANOR device at MIT, it isn't fusion but what is happening does produce more energy than the input level. LANR works because of the lattice, it will eventually break down but will operate as claimed until it does.

jalmy

1.5 / 5 (16) Aug 27, 2013

I cannot find a single flaw in ANYTHING teech2 has wrote. This dude must be good at science, because his use of use of English is at least 88X10E88 worse than is possible for a non genius level scientist.

El_Nose

not rated yet Aug 27, 2013

I encourage people to look into the LIFE fusion experiment. Just when you thought science was dead in the US. It seems to be our way of hedging bets on ITER

google LIFE fusion

sstritt

1 / 5 (10) Aug 27, 2013

I'm always encouraged by any developments in fusion, but I think the rapid progress in aneutronic fusion is suggesting that thats the way to go. No nasty neutrons, and no steam turbines- just direct conversion to electricity!

jshloram

1 / 5 (1) Aug 27, 2013

I guess there is something I don't understand:

8000 joules = 2.22222222 watt hours

They have a ways to go....

rug

1 / 5 (8) Aug 27, 2013

100% Correct, however it's the first time they have gotten more out then the put in for a sustained amount of time and I'm not even too sure they did get more.

Osiris1

1 / 5 (6) Aug 27, 2013

"The yield was significantly greater than the energy deposited in the hot spot by the implosion," said Ed Moses, principle associate director for NIF and Photon Science."

That says we got more OUT of the 'shot' than what we put IN! Question is how fast can NIF fire its 'guns' and how good are the capsules ...will they maintain integrity when loaded into the hot target area.........so we can get something like continuous power. Now all those neutrons..do we have to boil water with them or can we generate power another way.

"The yield was significantly greater than the energy deposited in the hot spot by the implosion," said Ed Moses, principal associate director for NIF and Photon Science."

Sorry, I must have missed that when I was reading the article.

5 / 5 (5) Aug 27, 2013

That says we got more OUT of the 'shot' than what we put IN!

Sort of. The energy to trigger the implosion was, however, more than 2 orders of magnitude greater than what they got out (only small part of the implosion energy got to the hot spot)

Total balance: 1.7MJoule in ... 8kJoule out.

Infinum

1 / 5 (17) Aug 27, 2013

A perfect way to waste energy - good job "scientists". LOL

Fusion can take place in a star because of enormous gravity/pressure. To create this kind of environment on Earth you need huge amounts of energy that will always be greater than the yield.

Such type of fusion is a hopeless perpetum mobile and should be abandoned right away.

There might be a way for the fusion to take place using resonance but to shoot lasers at a point and expect the yield to be bigger than the input energy is just brainless.

TheGhostofOtto1923

2.2 / 5 (13) Aug 27, 2013

Only last week I had to begin proceedings against one Mr Franklins on this very subject

Ahaahaaa you are going to run out of lawyers long before jigga runs out of sockpuppets.

And that even cold fusion (if it existed) would have that same 'problem'

Ahaahaaaa look whos trying to educate who about LENR. There is at least one very good theory which has the neutrons being absorbed by the media.
http://www.ansnuc...rsen.pdf

"The neutrons themselves are produced at very low momenta, or equivalently, with very long wavelengths. Such neutrons exhibit verylarge absorption cross-sections that are inversely proportional to neutron velocity. Very few such neutrons will escape the immediate vicinity. These will rarely be experimentally detected"

2.3 / 5 (12) Aug 27, 2013

Such type of fusion is a hopeless perpetum mobile and should be abandoned right away

I am so glad you are only a powerless troll. Real scientists and people with vision see many uses for inertial confinement fusion, which is WHY it is being funded and developed. This for instance:

"Fusion rocket... The main alternative to magnetic confinement is inertial confinement fusion, such as that proposed by Project Daedalus. A small pellet of fusion fuel (with a diameter of a couple of millimeters) would be ignited by an electron beam or a laser. To produce direct thrust, a magnetic field would form the pusher plate. In principle, the Helium-3-Deuterium reaction or an aneutronic fusion reaction could be used to maximize the energy in charged particles and to minimize radiation"
http://en.wikiped...n_rocket

WillieWard

1.5 / 5 (13) Aug 27, 2013

Electrostatic acceleration is much more energy-efficient than lasers, more promising to yield energy net gain with substantial payback.

2.3 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2013

There is at least one very good theory which has the neutrons being absorbed by the media.

Radiation absorption is a stochastic process. There is no amount of shielding you can put around a radioactive process that will stop 100% radiation (only an amount of shielding that will reduce what comes through to an acceptable amount). That 'all neutrons are absorbed' is complete pseudo-scientific hogwash.That's not how radiation works.

mrlewish

1 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2013

nuclear fusion; always 30 years away

3.7 / 5 (3) Aug 28, 2013

Write an article about it and publish it in peer-reviewed journal.

There' no need to publish this yet again because this is introductory stuff you find in every physics book on radiation.

Absorption is dependent on effective cross section of atoms used in the shielding material. This is a function that gives probabilities for a given atom to absorb a given type of radiation at given energy.
If material X of thickness Y will absorb radiation of type and energy Z by 50% then doubling the thickness absorbs 75% (not 100% because it is a stochastic process). Quadrupling the thickness will absorb 87.5% etc, etc. You never get 100% absorption no matter how thick you make your walls.

(You can shield 100% against alpha and beta radiation of a known upper energy level with a static electric field. Also alphas have such high cross sections that you'd need a very intense source in order to measure an alpha in an appreciable amount of time behind even a thin shield)

ian_walker_7140

1.5 / 5 (15) Aug 28, 2013

Working commercial solid state Cold Fusion devices have already passed safety certification for industrial use, and produce way more net energy than any hot plasma fusion experiment ever has. Heck even the bench experiments at MIT have produced more net energy than this expensive white elephant has, and it was built on an underfunded shoe string.

One device has been tested by a team of scientists from around the world and produces a Coefficient of Performance (COP) greater than 6. No hot fusion energy device has ever produced a COP of greater than 1; in other words, all hot fusion experiments, with out exception uses more energy than it produces, as does this experiment.

Where as one solid state cold fusion system is already on the market with a COP of 6 and is due to go live in a commercial setting next month.

NASA accepts that LENR works and has a contract with Boeing to build experimental aircraft using an LENR engine. The US navy has been granted patents on the technology.

3.5 / 5 (8) Aug 28, 2013

the residual neutrons can evade detection in most of common detectors easily.

No they cannot. Residual neutrons are no different from other neutrons. They are not 'magic'.
If they have a certain energy then they will have a certain probability of interacting. Given a certain amount of energy produced there will be an easily definable number of neutrons that WILL escape and go through a shield (or any material) of thickness X.

Radiation absorption isn't magic as you seem to believe. It's solid physics, tried and tested in every nuclear lab (and reactor) around the world for 100 years.

Q-Star

2.3 / 5 (16) Aug 28, 2013

That 'all neutrons are absorbed' is complete pseudo-scientific hogwash.That's not how radiation works
This is not how the science works. Write an article about it and publish it in peer-reviewed journal. Otherwise you're just an anonymous internet troll, like many others here..

Where can I find some of your work in a peer-reviewed journal? I ask because I know ya can't be an internet troll.

Oooops, never mind, I'm sure the great Zephyr has no peers worthy of the noun to do the reviewing,,, my mistake, carry on,,,,,,,,,

2 / 5 (8) Aug 28, 2013

There is at least one very good theory which has the neutrons being absorbed by the media.

Radiation absorption is a stochastic process. There is no amount of shielding you can put around a radioactive process that will stop 100% radiation (only an amount of shielding that will reduce what comes through to an acceptable amount). That 'all neutrons are absorbed' is complete pseudo-scientific hogwash.That's not how radiation works.

-So you STILL haven't read the widom Larsen paper which is the basis for at least one NASA patent? So stay stupid. Macht's nichts. But you really ought to refrain from commenting on subjects that you are insufficiently educated on.

4 / 5 (4) Aug 28, 2013

The contemporary detectors can detect only neutrons, when their energy is sufficiently high.

Plenty of neutron detectors around that can detect thermalised neutrons:
http://en.wikiped...etectors

So you STILL haven't read the widom Larsen paper

Read it. It's bunk. It doesn't even mesh with the data that cold fusion scientists gather themselves on their own appartus (re: the distribution of isotopes in the 'ash')

1 / 5 (6) Aug 28, 2013

Read it it's baloney

-And perhaps youre right although scientists at NASA seem to disagree with you. But it includes the phenomenon of slow neutron absorption which is well known and investigated by many big-deal research facilities, which explains the absense of detectable radiation and which, despite having allegedly read the paper, you seem to remain ignorant of.

Why is that?

1.2 / 5 (18) Aug 28, 2013

antialias is the kind of person who will never believe in man-made global warming either. He thinks that because there are unscrupulous scientists with agendas lying about the facts that it makes it ok to ignore all the valid data and evidence. He may in fact be one of these mutants with an agenda and greed being his modus operandi.

nowhere

3.4 / 5 (5) Aug 28, 2013

There is at least one very good theory which has the neutrons being absorbed by the media.

Radiation absorption is a stochastic process. There is no amount of shielding you can put around a radioactive process that will stop 100% radiation (only an amount of shielding that will reduce what comes through to an acceptable amount). That 'all neutrons are absorbed' is complete pseudo-scientific hogwash.That's not how radiation works.
-So you STILL haven't read the widom Larsen paper which is the basis for at least one NASA patent? So stay stupid. Macht's nichts. But you really ought to refrain from commenting on subjects that you are insufficiently educated on.

What level of education do you have that entitles you to play judge?

1.4 / 5 (11) Aug 28, 2013

What level of education do you have

The level at which I am aware of the responsibility of looking stuff up and educating myself before I spew. AA sometimes appears to have reached a lesser such level of education.

Aneutronic fusion
http://en.wikiped...c_fusion

What level of education do you have
The level at which I am aware of the responsibility of looking stuff up and educating myself before I spew. AA sometimes appears to have reached a lesser such level of education.

Aneutronic fusion
http://en.wikiped...c_fusion

So educated you post a link that is irrelevant? What exactly does aneutronic fusion have to do with lenr or the supposed slow neutron absorption phenomenon?

brt

2.6 / 5 (20) Aug 28, 2013

How fucking dense do you have to be to not understand what has been said over and over? This is not a fusion REACTOR. This is an experiment to understand what is happening during a fusion reaction.

All of you trolls, like teech, are always bitching about scientists only relying on theories and not having any experimental evidence; yet here we are experimenting and showing that certain models don't fit experimental results and you're bitching about the experiment. You dumb bastards are a never ending cycle of bitching and complaining about things you don't even understand. I know you think it makes you look smart, but it really just shows all of us how stupid you are. So stupid that you can't even read a dumbed down science article. You idiots.

ITER is a fusion reactor using a completely different method of fusion. It is expected to produce 500 megawatts, if they ever build it... it's billions of $ over budget, not built yet, and YEARS behind schedule. I doubt it will succeed

JohnGee

2.1 / 5 (14) Aug 28, 2013

^^Can we please make it so the cranks here get the second paragraph above as an error message when they try to make a post?

1.6 / 5 (14) Aug 28, 2013

What exactly does aneutronic fusion have to do with lenr or the supposed slow neutron absorption phenomenon

Hey nowhere

Youve got to read all the posts before responding intelligently. The discussion was about detectable neutrons. AA said cold fusion should produce them. I posted the paper about slow neutrons which says they are undetectable. Zephyr mentioned aneutronic fusion and I provided a link.

Think you might have something useful to contribute now?

This is not a fusion REACTOR

Well of course its a fusion reactor.

"The idea for the National Ignition Facility (NIF) grew out of the decades-long effort to generate self-sustaining nuclear fusion reactions in the laboratory."

ITER is a fusion reactor

ITER has no more capacity to produce usable energy than NIF. No radiation capture and conversion, no steam production, no generators, no electriticy. Go read wiki again.

Both are meant to produce fusion REACTIONS in a REACTION CHAMBER.

Whos being a fucking troll?

1.5 / 5 (8) Aug 28, 2013

Well forgive me. ITER does have a blanket.

"The blanket covers the interior surfaces of the vacuum vessel, providing shielding to the vessel and the superconducting magnets from the heat and neutron fluxes of the fusion reaction. The neutrons are slowed down in the blanket where their kinetic energy is transformed into heat energy and collected by the coolants. In a fusion POWER PLANT, this energy will be used for electrical power production."

TFTR (The Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor) was also a reactor. They all are. TFTR had no blanket.

"Noun
1.thermonuclear reactor - a nuclear reactor that uses controlled nuclear fusion to generate energy
fusion reactor
nuclear reactor, reactor - (physics) any of several kinds of apparatus that maintain and control a nuclear reaction for the production of energy or artificial elements

1.6 / 5 (7) Aug 28, 2013

More reference to laser fusion reactors:

"The laser-based concept has other advantages. The reactor core is mostly exposed, as opposed to being wrapped in a huge magnet as in the tokamak. This makes the problem of removing energy from the system somewhat simpler, and should mean that performing maintenance on a laser-based device would be much easier, such as core replacement."

Here is another type of fusion reactor.

"A polywell uses an electric field to do work on ions, to heat them to fusion conditions. It is a type of fusion reactor that traps electrons using magnetic confinement. The negatively charged electrons then attract positively charged ions. This accelerates the ions. If they collide at high speeds in the center, they can fuse. This is a form of inertial electrostatic fusion and is closely related to the fusor, magnetic mirrors and the biconic cusp."

1 / 5 (8) Aug 29, 2013

It is expected ...
In the same way another physicists [url]http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.4229[/url]

It is expected to produce 500 megawatts, if they ever build it... it's billions of $ over budget, not built yet, and YEARS behind schedule. I doubt it will succeed
In the same way another physicists [url]http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.4229[/url] as a fusion device for not to lose grant support prematurely. But whole the above article is just about fusion. The ITER is just even greater waste of money from this perspective, indeed...

Why not to simply admit the fact, the scientists are lobbyist group like any other and their main motivation is to collect money for their activities?

There is also no other way to produce the pressures and temperatures that NIF produces. What's Jupiter's core like? What's that? METALLIC HYDROGEN?! we didn't even know metallic hydrogen existed; now we can tell chemistry students why hydrogen is a gas but has so many metallic properties. Stuff like that.

1 / 5 (15) Aug 29, 2013

BRT you are a straight up moron. You miss the whole point of why people "bitch" about these "experiments" that you say are not reactors. Money is the point obviously. Money is always the point. Now once you realize that you can use your brain. If you dig a whole in your back yard and put a singularity into it and have trucks lined up back to back stretching around and they non stop dump money into it. Then you might have a small understanding of what these particular "experiments" are doing. Mostly these "trolls" you speak of are making the point that it is ok to run experiments to learn about how fusion works, and maybe come up with a viable way to get a self sustaining reaction. The methods they have now will never generate surplus power is the point. Now they will learn from this, but at the cost of billions and billions more than is necessary to learn the same things. Now f off you troll, grow a brain and try to use it to think on your own.

2 / 5 (11) Aug 29, 2013

BRT you are a straight up moron. You miss the whole point of why people "bitch" about these "experiments" that you say are not reactors. Money is the point obviously. Money is always the point. Now once you realize that you ca"experiments" are doing. Mostly these "trolls" you speak of are making the point that it is ok to run experiments to learn about how fusion works, and maybe come up with a viable way to get a self sustaining reaction. The methods they have now will never generate surplus power is the point. Now they will learn from this, but at the cost of billions and billions more than is necessary to learn the same things. and try to use it to think on your own.

See my other posts you enormously uneducated dumbass. I'm sure your just Franklins or one of those trolls who created a fake account so that you can vent your anger at how correct I am. Grow some balls and take responsibility for your comments. Nobody gives a shit who you are anyway.

1.7 / 5 (11) Aug 29, 2013

It is expected to produce 500 megawatts, if they ever build it... it's billions of $ over budget, not built yet, and YEARS behind schedule. I doubt it will succeed
In the same way another physicists http://arxiv.org/abs/0908.4229 as a fusion device for not to lose grant support prematurely. But whole the above article is just about fusion. The ITER is just even greater waste of money from this perspective, indeed...

Why not to simply admit the fact, the scientists are lobbyist group like any other and their main motivation is to collect money for their activities?

The NIF is funded by the Pentagon. Smart people tend to design experiments to have more than 1 purpose, as well as to provide some sort of service to the person paying for it. Educated yourself by reading this https://lasers.ll...ndex.php you stupid bastard.

1.8 / 5 (10) Aug 29, 2013

The really smart people manage to convince the other, less smarter people even for building of devices, which have no usage at all...

Are you retarded? Can you not read? No usage at all?

Why the hell would a smart person need to convince the average idiot who can't read or is too lazy to read? If absorbing the facts means that your view is incorrect, then you're going to have to get over your ego and accept that your view is incorrect. Grow up and stop acting like a brat.

1.7 / 5 (12) Aug 29, 2013

This doesn't say, that the NIF is NOT an impressive piece of hardware by all measures thinkable. I would certainly enjoy the job at NIF in the same way, like many physicists do - but now it's the time to face the annoying reality: the physicists involved sorta fooled the congressmen and the rest of society and what's worse - now they're openly covering a much more perspective way of energetic research for years (cold fusion, magnetic motors, antigravity drives). Of course, we cannot make an army of unemployed people from the group of highly qualified physicists (and to scrap their expensive device), but some sort of public feedback would be greatly welcomed there.

The PENTAGON paid for it. Not congress. Nobody is ignoring LENR you dumb shit. You shut your eyes, plug your ears, and live in an alternate reality where you refuse to accept facts. Fuck off to your troll cave.

1.9 / 5 (13) Aug 29, 2013

Do you think, I am a complete idiot, who don't understand, how the community of physicists is working?

YES. That's actually exactly what I think.

For example: Is a physicist in charge of this experiment? nope.

So again brt, you think that fusion research in the name of bombs is viable and justified? Because we need fusion bombs that work better in your opinion? And you say the Pentagon paid for something. Please at least learn the very basics of how US funding works. The Pentagon literally has no money, they do not levy taxes you f'ing dumb fuck. Congress does, they tax, and they divy out ALL MONEY you stupid mother f'er this is basic basic basic high school stuff here. OMG I cannot believe I am even justifying your stupidity with explanations. But how else will idiots like you learn anything?

1.4 / 5 (11) Aug 29, 2013

AGAIN, you down syndrome troll, it is an experiment to better understand what fusion is and the actual physics process of what is happening when fusion occurs. You stupid fuck. Crawl back inside your mom's ass.

1.9 / 5 (9) Aug 29, 2013

The Congress determines the Pentagon's budget. The Pentagon decides what it is spent on. Of course you, the socially rejected piece of shit troll, is calling those who are actually informed the stupid ones. Because the internet is haven for sufferers of toxoplasmosis; but we just call you Franklins, Teech2, jalmy, etc.. the same type of mental illness by different names.

1.5 / 5 (8) Aug 29, 2013

Hey brt you ignorant slut

You did not acknowledge my posts where I demonstrated to you that you do not know what a reactor is. Ignoring the truth does not mean you are right except maybe in your own mind you know?

Also as far as weaponry is concerned if we don't spend the time and effort to develop weapons, somebody else will. The only reason there hasn't been a nuclear war is because the good guys have nukes.

There is the as-yet-undefined threat of pure fusion weapons. The west needs to learn about these and other threats so we can defend against them.

1.3 / 5 (12) Aug 29, 2013

Not only do they determine a budget they also oversee it and the senate committee on Appropriations knows what every dime is spent on. Even money spent on so called "black" projects is accounted for by congress. So when I give my daughter 10$ to go to the movies and she gives me a receipt showing 7$ for the movie and 3$ for a soda. To paraphrase your statement "The girl paid for it, not her parents." Seriously you are stupid and you continue over and over and over to prove it. So now once again instead of saying stupid shit and making stupid arguments. When someone says to you that something needs to be ok with congress and society ultimately to be funded they are correct. YOU are a troll, and a bad one at that.